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book_n bishop_n church_n great_a 2,788 5 3.1469 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A93883 An Ansvver to a libell intituled, A coole conference betweene the cleered Reformation and the apologeticall narration; brought together by a wel-willer to both; wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared, most humbly submitted to the judgement of the honourable Houses of Parliament, the most learned and reverend divines of the assembly, and all the reformed churches. By Adam Steuart. Steuart, Adam. 1644 (1644) Wing S5489; Thomason E43_4; ESTC R11438 39,008 70

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it_o be_v not_o move_v or_o direct_v as_o it_o be_v this_o or_o that_o judgement_n that_o actual_o move_v and_o direct_v it_o to_o this_o or_o that_o action_n in_o effect_n 7._o and_o if_o you_o believe_v that_o the_o understanding_n move_v the_o will_n necessary_o then_o in_o our_o regeneration_n it_o shall_v suffice_v that_o the_o understanding_n alone_o shall_v be_v renew_v for_o it_o shall_v necessary_o draw_v the_o will_n after_o it_o which_o can_v be_v since_o scripture_n inculcate_v no_o less_o the_o renovation_n of_o the_o will_n o●_n heart_n than_o that_o of_o the_o understanding_n 8._o a_o man_n regeneration_n shall_v consist_v in_o faith_n alone_o without_o charity_n which_o likewise_o can_v hold_v for_o howsoever_o a_o man_n be_v justify_v by_o faith_n alone_o without_o charity_n yet_o be_v he_o not_o regenerate_v by_o faith_n alone_o without_o charity_n 9_o a_o man_n be_v endow_v with_o intellectual_a habitude_n shall_v not_o stand_v in_o need_n of_o moral_a virtue_n to_o perfect_v the_o will_n but_o to_o be_v as_o you_o call_v it_o a_o moral_a or_o rather_o a_o good_a man_n moral_o it_o shall_v suffice_v to_o be_v prudent_a and_o so_o moral_a virtue_n shall_v have_v their_o seat_n in_o the_o understanding_n and_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o science_n opinion_n or_o prudence_n which_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o socrates_n universal_o blame_v by_o all_o philosopher_n 10._o and_o final_o howsoever_o the_o will_n be_v evermore_o rule_v by_o some_o judgement_n yet_o that_o final_a judgement_n that_o rule_v it_o or_o that_o judicium_fw-la ultimum_fw-la and_o practicè_fw-la practicum_fw-la that_o rule_v humane_a action_n depend_v of_o the_o will_n as_o the_o philosopher_n and_o schoolman_n both_o hold_v and_o so_o much_o touch_v this_o quarrel_n which_o you_o here_o beg_v with_o your_o vain_a philosophy_n so_o much_o condemn_v by_o s._n paul_n p._n 3_o §_o 1._o wherein_o say_v you_o have_v appear_v this_o preposterousnesse_n towards_o you_o while_o the_o apology_n smile_v upon_o you_o and_o sweet_o call_v you_o and_o holland_n by_o name_n the_o more_o reform_a church_n do_v you_o give_v they_o one_o such_o a_o kind_a word_n in_o all_o your_o reply_n answ_n here_o it_o seem_v that_o this_o well-willer_n will_v paction_n with_o the_o commissioner_n for_o a_o interchange_n of_o commendation_n but_o they_o have_v already_o answer_v that_o they_o can_v praise_v you_o but_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o truth_n will_v suffer_v they_o p._n 2._o §_o 2._o neither_o do_v they_o deny_v but_o the_o reform_a church_n discipline_n may_v have_v need_n of_o reformation_n as_o their_o faith_n that_o be_v still_o grow_v from_o faith_n to_o faith_n but_o from_o thence_o it_o follow_v no_o more_o that_o it_o be_v erroneous_a then_o that_o their_o faith_n be_v so_o and_o here_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v how_o close_o this_o original_a sin_n in_o argue_v evermore_o à_fw-la posse_fw-la ad_fw-la esse_fw-la stick_v to_o this_o as_o to_o all_o other_o independenter_n bone_n let_v he_o show_v wherein_o either_o the_o scot_n or_o other_o orthodox_n church_n need_v reformation_n let_v he_o prove_v that_o their_o government_n be_v but_o a_o contrive_a episcopacy_n that_o it_o be_v such_o as_o make_v all_o reform_a church_n unworthy_a of_o independenters_n communion_n that_o their_o own_o church_n be_v endow_v with_o such_o a_o seraphical_a perfection_n and_o we_o so_o corrupt_a that_o they_o dare_v no_o more_o communicate_v with_o we_o than_o the_o pharise_n think_v they_o can_v do_v with_o the_o people_n item_n that_o there_o be_v no_o subordination_n in_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n that_o man_n be_v not_o church_n member_n before_o they_o be_v admit_v by_o a_o church_n covenant_n distinct_a from_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n if_o that_o he_o can_v do_v this_o it_o will_v be_v more_o to_o the_o purpose_n then_o all_o these_o ridiculous_a exclamation_n and_o complaint_n we_o desire_v argument_n and_o no_o compliment_n p._n 3._o s._n 2._o not_o to_o make_v etc._n etc._n this_o be_v very_o dangerous_a and_o may_v breed_v if_o it_o have_v not_o already_o as_o many_o sect_n of_o ephetict_n sceptict_n aporetict_n and_o pyrrhoniens_fw-la among_o you_o as_o be_v in_o former_a time_n among_o the_o philosopher_n no_o less_o destructive_a of_o all_o faith_n and_o settle_v ecclesiastical_a law_n than_o they_o be_v of_o all_o science_n and_o therefore_o both_o so_o just_o brand_v by_o the_o apostle_n 1_o tim._n 3.7_o there_o be_v one_o thing_n more_o that_o make_v the_o apologist_n more_o confident_a of_o their_o candour_n in_o that_o their_o apology_n receive_v so_o great_a a_o approbation_n from_o so_o pious_a and_o learned_a a_o man_n etc._n etc._n answ_n how_o confident_a the_o commissioner_n may_v be_v of_o their_o candour_n and_o you_o shall_v be_v of_o you_o it_o be_v better_a to_o hear_v it_o of_o the_o assembly_n then_o of_o you_o since_o it_o be_v more_o to_o be_v believe_v in_o this_o cause_n than_o you_o in_o judge_v of_o yourselves_o and_o as_o for_o that_o approbation_n it_o be_v but_o from_o one_o man_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o whole_a assembly_n as_o be_v that_o of_o the_o reformation_n clear_v which_o be_v approve_v by_o that_o same_o very_a learned_a man_n also_o 3._o and_o he_o by_o that_o very_a approbation_n do_v solemn_o condemn_v your_o apologetical_a narration_n 4._o neither_o approve_v he_o the_o substance_n but_o some_o circumstance_n of_o your_o apology_n viz._n its_o modesty_n etc._n etc._n wherein_o he_o may_v be_v very_o easy_o deceive_v item_n your_o communicablenesse_n hope_v better_a of_o you_o than_o appear_o he_o will_v find_v and_o compatibleness_n with_o magistracy_n which_o hitherto_o be_v not_o full_o prove_v 5._o whether_o he_o approve_v all_o that_o you_o present_v to_o he_o at_o first_o in_o your_o book_n yourselves_o know_v best_o if_o not_o we_o have_v not_o as_o yet_o your_o opinion_n till_o according_a to_o exigence_n of_o time_n etc._n etc._n you_o give_v the_o world_n a_o second_o edition_n of_o it_o and_o then_o you_o may_v tell_v we_o news_n of_o your_o candour_n 6._o neither_o can_v he_o judge_v of_o your_o candour_n since_o he_o can_v no_o way_n judge_v of_o your_o heart_n &_o consequent_o whether_o your_o writ_n be_v consonant_a to_o your_o word_n and_o your_o word_n to_o your_o heart_n beside_o all_o this_o in_o that_o approbation_n he_o declare_v his_o aversion_n from_o you_o and_o inclination_n towards_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n so_o as_o this_o man_n brain_n seem_v of_o a_o very_a strange_a temper_n in_o cite_v for_o he_o that_o which_o be_v so_o direct_o against_o he_o as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n though_o the_o assembly_n vote_v you_o thanks_n yet_o be_v it_o only_o for_o the_o book_n you_o give_v they_o not_o for_o the_o reply_n as_o it_o be_v express_v to_o that_o effect_n in_o the_o vote_n if_o observation_n fail_v not_o answ_n this_o can_v but_o be_v most_o untrue_a 1._o for_o the_o assembly_n vote_v they_o no_o thanks_n for_o the_o book_n till_o all_o the_o member_n thereof_o have_v read_v &_o consider_v the_o same_o &_o be_v extreme_o well_o satisfy_v with_o the_o content_n thereof_o 2._o he_o will_v make_v this_o grave_a assembly_n very_o ridiculous_a to_o say_v no_o more_o if_o it_o have_v nothing_o else_o to_o do_v but_o to_o employ_v so_o much_o time_n in_o vote_v thanks_n for_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n viz._n for_o a_o twopenny_a book_n 3._o if_o it_o be_v so_o wherefore_o vote_v it_o not_o thanks_n for_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n which_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n big_a and_o sell_v 6_o 4._o here_o according_a to_o your_o judgement_n it_o can_v escape_v the_o blame_n of_o great_a ingratitude_n towards_o the_o apologizer_n whereof_o you_o will_v do_v well_o to_o admonish_v it_o 5._o for_o fear_v your_o observation_n fail_v you_o i_o pray_v you_o look_v the_o act_n and_o afterward_o you_o can_v if_o you_o have_v any_o candour_n but_o in_o imitation_n of_o s._n austin_n disabuse_v the_o world_n by_o some_o book_n of_o retractation_n which_o here_o you_o abuse_v by_o this_o your_o false_a observation_n and_o thus_o far_o i_o come_v with_o my_o reason_n ground_v upon_o some_o general_n but_o very_o certain_a relation_n concern_v the_o assembly_n speech_n in_o give_v thanks_n to_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n for_o their_o reply_n to_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n but_o since_o this_o my_o book_n have_v be_v end_v upon_o more_o particular_a information_n i_o add_v these_o follow_a reason_n 8._o the_o assembly_n in_o thank_v they_o for_o it_o call_v it_o a_o very_a learned_a and_o pious_a piece_n which_o be_v not_o a_o praise_n of_o two_o sheet_n of_o paper_n and_o a_o little_a ink_n but_o also_o of_o the_o matter_n it_o contain_v 9_o it_o be_v there_o say_v that_o it_o be_v very_o useful_a for_o this_o time_n when_o
natural_a science_n quoad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la but_o that_o natural_a science_n and_o the_o habitude_n of_o natural_a principle_n be_v more_o certain_a quoad_fw-la entitatem_fw-la and_o this_o distinction_n be_v observe_v it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o that_o a_o sin_n that_o be_v great_a essential_o may_v not_o deserve_v excommunication_n and_o that_o which_o be_v less_o deserve_v it_o so_o that_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independenter_n will_v not_o hold_v universal_o as_o for_o the_o party_n know_v light_n or_o knowledge_n it_o be_v either_o speculative_a which_o of_o itself_o direct_v not_o the_o will_n in_o its_o practice_n or_o action_n as_o to_o know_v that_o there_o be_v three_o person_n in_o the_o trinity_n or_o practical_a which_o direct_v the_o will_n in_o its_o action_n in_o dictate_v unto_o it_o to_o do_v good_a and_o to_o fly_v evil_a this_o be_v either_o general_n as_o in_o general_a to_o know_v that_o good_a shall_v be_v do_v or_o particular_a as_o when_o it_o dictate_v that_o this_o good_a shall_v be_v do_v and_o then_o either_o it_o be_v practical_a in_o part_n or_o imperfect_a or_o altogether_o absolute_o and_o perfect_o which_o when_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v be_v well_o examine_v according_a to_o its_o substance_n and_o all_o its_o circumstance_n it_o dictate_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v do_v here_o in_o this_o place_n by_o i_o in_o this_o time_n notwithstanding_o this_o opposition_n etc._n etc._n and_o this_o ordinary_o in_o the_o school_n be_v call_v cognitio_fw-la practicè_fw-la practica_fw-la a_o knowledge_n practical_o practical_a i.e._n altogether_o practical_a now_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o which_o of_o these_o several_a sort_n of_o light_n or_o of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o party_n this_o doctor_n speak_v otherwise_o we_o can_v understand_v he_o in_o the_o 3._o and_o 5._o difficulty_n we_o wish_v that_o our_o brethren_n will_v declare_v unto_o we_o whether_o by_o christianity_n and_o the_o church_n they_o understand_v all_o those_o who_o profess_v christianity_n in_o name_n or_o those_o only_o who_o profess_v it_o real_o and_o in_o effect_n and_o then_o whether_o all_o those_o who_o hold_v their_o fundamentalia_fw-la or_o essentialia_fw-la only_o or_o if_o they_o will_v they_o not_o to_o stand_v in_o mere_a fundamental_a point_n but_o also_o require_v that_o they_o pass_v unto_o their_o superstructory_n and_o how_o far_o item_n that_o they_o will_v distinguish_v between_o their_o fundamental_a and_o superstructory_a point_n in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o manner_n for_o this_o be_v the_o whole_a foundation_n and_o ground_n of_o this_o their_o debate_n otherwise_o all_o that_o they_o say_v be_v but_o so_o many_o evasion_n and_o we_o can_v know_v wherein_o they_o dissent_v from_o we_o or_o what_o they_o will_v be_v at_o item_n whether_o by_o the_o word_n church_n they_o understand_v any_o church_n or_o multitude_n that_o lay_v claim_v to_o this_o name_n or_o the_o true_a church_n or_o the_o pure_a church_n and_o than_o whether_o pure_a in_o their_o fundamentalia_fw-la only_o or_o also_o in_o their_o superstructory_n as_o for_o the_o 4._o difficulty_n common_a receive_v practice_n in_o christianity_n be_v of_o as_o large_a a_o extent_n as_o christianity_n or_o the_o christian_a church_n and_o may_v signify_v practice_n common_a to_o all_o church_n either_o nominal_o or_o real_o or_o common_a to_o the_o only_a real_a and_o true_a christian_a church_n either_o in_o fundamental_a point_n only_o or_o also_o in_o superstructory_n or_o common_a to_o all_o pure_a church_n only_o the_o doctor_n then_o and_o his_o sect_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v be_v understand_v by_o we_o who_o they_o oppose_v must_v clear_o expound_v we_o what_o they_o mean_v by_o these_o word_n and_o expression_n but_o to_o cut_v off_o all_o sort_n of_o sophistication_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o to_o the_o point_n i_o will_v press_v and_o urge_v they_o more_o close_o in_o this_o fashion_n either_o our_o brethren_n in_o this_o point_n about_o sin_n and_o sinner_n who_o be_v the_o adequate_a object_n of_o excommunication_n agree_v with_o we_o or_o disagree_v from_o we_o if_o they_o grant_v the_o first_o what_o need_v all_o this_o dispute_n and_o contentiones_fw-la they_o fight_v but_o with_o their_o own_o shadow_n if_o the_o second_o let_v they_o show_v we_o wherein_o we_o disagree_v and_o either_o we_o shall_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n or_o render_v ourselves_o to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o case_n we_o be_v go_v astray_o from_o it_o but_o to_o generality_n we_o can_v answer_v neither_o be_v it_o christianly_o do_v by_o pretend_a reform_a and_o reformer_n to_o cast_v such_o general_a filthy_a aspersion_n upon_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n when_o as_o they_o can_v particularize_v nothing_o at_o all_o the_o lord_n lie_v it_o not_o unto_o their_o charge_n in_o that_o great_a day_n when_o all_o such_o caption_n and_o sophistication_n shall_v be_v in_o no_o request_n there_o be_v two_o main_a objection_n which_o ordinary_o the_o independent_o propound_v against_o the_o government_n of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o namely_o of_o that_o of_o scotland_n the_o commissioner_n from_o pag._n 2._o §_o 2._o to_o the_o end_n of_o their_o book_n propound_v they_o in_o as_o great_a force_n as_o possible_o they_o can_v have_v and_o dissolve_v they_o both_o so_o strong_o and_o evident_o that_o it_o be_v a_o wonder_n how_o this_o well-willer_n have_v any_o stomach_n to_o reply_v the_o doctor_n also_o bring_v they_o from_o p._n 14._o §_o 2._o to_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n where_o he_o travail_v so_o slender_o to_o justify_v they_o that_o he_o seem_v willing_o desirous_a to_o be_v condemn_v only_o rather_o then_o to_o be_v think_v a_o desertor_n of_o the_o cause_n he_o will_v rather_o answer_v impertinent_o then_o to_o quit_v his_o brethren_n the_o first_o argument_n put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o partioular_a church_n one_o to_o another_o and_o protestation_n of_o one_o against_o another_o and_o the_o withdraw_n of_o communion_n one_o from_o another_o especial_o when_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n there_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o necessary_a but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o militant_a church_n there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particular_a church_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o militant_a church_n the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o necessary_a the_o assumption_n be_v certain_a the_o proof_n of_o the_o connexion_n of_o the_o first_o proposition_n may_v be_v thus_o where_o there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o no_o less_o effectual_a against_o all_o offence_n than_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n there_o a_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o necessary_a but_o where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particucular_a church_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o no_o less_o effectual_a against_o all_o offence_n than_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n ergo_fw-la where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particular_a church_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n they_o prove_v the_o assumption_n here_o for_o he_o who_o will_n or_o dare_v condemn_v the_o one_o will_v not_o care_v for_o the_o other_o unless_o the_o magistrate_n authority_n intervene_v answ_n the_o commissioner_n answer_v 1._o that_o this_o argument_n suppose_v a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o have_v never_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n or_o any_o other_o reform_a church_n except_o those_o of_o the_o separation_n who_o propound_v the_o argument_n viz._n the_o pronounce_v of_o non-communion_n or_o excommunication_n against_o a_o whole_a church_n and_o we_o hope_v such_o a_o case_n never_o shall_v fall_v out_o now_o law_n be_v make_v for_o case_n that_o be_v ordinary_a and_o not_o for_o these_o that_o be_v extraordinary_a the_o doctor_n reply_v that_o they_o speak_v not_o one_o word_n to_o extenuate_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n rep._n but_o in_o deprive_v they_o of_o their_o authoritative_a power_n which_o be_v their_o form_n they_o extenuate_v their_o authority_n yea_o they_o destroy_v their_o essence_n for_o without_o a_o authoritative_a power_n they_o sit_v in_o quality_n of_o private_a person_n only_o or_o of_o minister_n gather_v together_o by_o chance_n or_o otherways_o and_o not_o in_o quality_n of_o synod_n or_o rather_o as_o the_o commissioner_n answer_v most_o judicious_o and_o clear_o in_o this_o exhortation_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v find_v then_o one_o particular_a member_n may_v do_v against_o another_o which_o yet_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o
they_o in_o the_o lord_n but_o not_o to_o rule_v ever_o themselves_o and_o other_o answ_n 1._o what_o be_v well-willer_n understand_v by_o congregation_n whether_o minister_n alone_o of_o rule_v elder_n alone_o or_o both_o together_o or_o man_n or_o all_o man_n woman_n and_o child_n and_o in_o a_o word_n all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n i_o know_v not_o neither_o do_v he_o express_v his_o mind_n upon_o this_o point_n only_o i_o must_v say_v that_o be_v once_o in_o company_n with_o some_o of_o their_o preacher_n i_o hear_v some_o woman_n maintain_v stout_o in_o presence_n of_o the_o minister_n without_o any_o contradiction_n make_v by_o he_o that_o woman_n also_o have_v power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n 2._o i_o answer_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n 1._o to_o call_v a_o church_n officer_n to_o his_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o vocation_n or_o call_n 2._o another_o to_o send_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o mission_n 3._o another_o to_o admit_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n and_o to_o elect_v he_o or_o choose_v he_o the_o first_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o church_n officer_n who_o examine_v his_o life_n and_o doctrine_n and_o afterward_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a ministry_n the_o second_o be_v a_o act_n of_o those_o who_o send_v he_o and_o sometime_o be_v do_v by_o the_o minister_n in_o a_o colloque_n or_o a_o synod_n which_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n as_o when_o he_o be_v send_v to_o feed_v a_o particular_a flock_n sometime_o by_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o some_o particular_a commission_n to_o a_o class_n or_o synod_n but_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n as_o you_o see_v in_o the_o assembly_n at_o antiochia_n in_o send_v some_o minister_n to_o the_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n the_o three_o be_v a_o act_n sometime_o of_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n and_o election_n of_o their_o own_o minister_n sometime_o of_o a_o colloque_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n of_o the_o member_n thereof_o as_o in_o that_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o here_o to_o avoid_v all_o sophistication_n of_o our_o adversary_n note_v that_o i_o speak_v here_o only_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n according_a to_o its_o visible_a form_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o visible_a and_o extern_a vocation_n mission_n admission_n and_o election_n of_o minister_n so_o i_o say_v every_o church_n choose_v i._n e._n elect_v its_o own_o minister_n but_o it_o call_v they_o not_o nor_o send_v they_o it_o give_v they_o not_o their_o general_a vocation_n nor_o mission_n into_o the_o ministry_n but_o that_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la according_a to_o the_o exigence_n of_o time_n and_o place_n to_o particular_a minister_n not_o in_o quality_n of_o minister_n of_o particular_a congregation_n but_o of_o great_a consociation_n in_o a_o representative_a body_n of_o many_o particular_a church_n so_o a_o minister_n in_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o god_n by_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n to_o judge_v rule_n and_o feed_v many_o church_n positis_fw-la ponendio_fw-la &_o ut_fw-la poni_fw-la debent_fw-la so_o as_o nothing_o thereunto_o requisite_a be_v want_v but_o all_o order_a as_o it_o shall_v viz._n if_o it_o be_v by_o consent_n or_o election_n of_o his_o particular_a church_n and_o he_o be_v admit_v by_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n whereunto_o he_o be_v send_v etc._n etc._n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v in_o our_o reform_a church_n master_n well-willer_n repli_v again_o that_o episcopacy_n be_v as_o intrinsical_v to_o particular_a church_n as_o the_o presbyteric_a since_o bishop_n be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n at_o their_o instalment_n where_o customary_o people_n be_v allow_v to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n answ_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v as_o intrinsical_v and_o that_o for_o the_o reason_n bring_v by_o the_o commissioner_n as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o bring_v for_o confirmation_n thereof_o viz._n because_o they_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n i_o answer_v 1._o it_o be_v not_o enough_o they_o have_v their_o election_n from_o the_o people_n but_o they_o must_v also_o have_v their_o vocation_n and_o mission_n from_o the_o church_n in_o the_o name_n and_o authority_n of_o christ_n which_o they_o have_v not_o according_a to_o this_o well-willer_n own_o tenet_n 2._o because_o the_o people_n can_v make_v no_o church_n officer_n and_o principal_o minister_n since_o they_o have_v not_o the_o ability_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o learning_n and_o gift_n 3._o in_o choose_v of_o a_o archbishop_n it_o be_v not_o moral_o possible_a that_o all_o the_o people_n can_v elect_v he_o and_o especial_o when_o he_o be_v a_o great_a archbishop_n or_o a_o primate_n over_o a_o whole_a kingdom_n for_o all_o the_o people_n can_v well_o meet_v together_o 4._o and_o howbeit_o they_o can_v meet_v yet_o can_v not_o their_o consent_n and_o voice_n easy_o be_v gather_v 5._o it_o be_v a_o ridiculous_a thing_n in_o choose_v of_o he_o to_o seek_v the_o consent_n and_o voice_n of_o every_o idle_a and_o ignorant_a fellow_n yea_o of_o woman_n that_o be_v of_o the_o people_n 6._o neither_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o choose_v a_o bishop_n to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n for_o that_o be_v not_o to_o elect_v he_o but_o to_o hinder_v his_o election_n 7._o neither_o be_v this_o ordinary_o practise_v 8._o and_o master_n well-willer_n to_o the_o bishop_n here_o confess_v in_o the_o next_o line_n that_o it_o have_v have_v little_a success_n but_o master_n well-willer_n confirm_v it_o out_o of_o that_o ordinary_a passage_n of_o hieronymus_n to_o avoid_v schism_n one_o of_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n be_v choose_v to_o be_v as_o chair_n man_n answ_n 1._o such_o a_o bishop_n be_v not_o a_o english_a or_o papist_n bishop_n but_o a_o moderator_n of_o the_o action_n or_o a_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n which_o will_v not_o make_v up_o a_o bishop_n in_o so_o far_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v distinguish_v from_o a_o ordinary_a minister_n for_o you_o yourselves_o pretend_v to_o have_v your_o synod_n which_o can_v be_v without_o some_o moderator_n precedent_n or_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n and_o yet_o you_o deny_v that_o you_o have_v any_o bishop_n or_o episcopal_a government_n 2._o neither_o be_v bishop_n annual_o 3._o to_o be_v short_a master_n well-willer_n bring_v we_o here_o no_o real_a but_o imaginary_a bishop_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o utopia_n viz._n that_o be_v only_a master_n of_o the_o chair_n annual_a etc._n etc._n 4._o item_n who_o chancellor_n archdeacon_n etc._n etc._n be_v parishioner_n 5._o their_o chancellor_n be_v not_o ordinary_o ecclesiastical_a but_o layman_n as_o you_o call_v they_o who_o nevertheless_o judge_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n which_o you_o ordinary_o blame_v 6._o neither_o have_v they_o vocation_n from_o god_n as_o you_o confess_v neither_o be_v they_o choose_v by_o all_o the_o church_n that_o they_o rule_v and_o feed_v if_o any_o food_n they_o give_v and_o feed_v not_o themselves_o with_o the_o fat_a of_o the_o people_n you_o be_v also_o too_o bold_a master_n well-willer_n to_o say_v that_o the_o people_n former_o have_v be_v as_o willing_a they_o shall_v reign_v as_o ever_o any_o people_n be_v in_o your_o kingdom_n to_o have_v the_o presbytery_n ever_o they_o answ_n we_o can_v show_v you_o hundred_o yea_o thousand_o who_o have_v cutle_v their_o government_n both_o in_o england_n and_o in_o ireland_n and_o what_o have_v be_v the_o good_a will_n of_o the_o scot_n towards_o they_o they_o can_v best_o tell_v themselves_o as_o have_v feel_v it_o these_o four_o or_o five_o year_n last_o pass_v but_o as_o for_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n you_o have_v never_o hear_v the_o people_n murmur_n much_o less_o rise_v up_o against_o it_o 2._o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o you_o have_v find_v they_o so_o sweet_a what_o need_v you_o run_v away_o and_o desert_n the_o church_n here_o they_o do_v compel_v minister_n and_o churchwarden_n to_o do_v many_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o in_o case_n of_o refufall_n do_v ordinary_o undo_v they_o as_o we_o can_v produce_v many_o example_n both_o in_o england_n and_o ireland_n yea_o of_o the_o independenter_n themselves_o before_o that_o they_o speak_v this_o way_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n the_o like_a of_o this_o can_v without_o singular_a impudence_n be_v say_v to_o have_v be_v any_o where_o practise_v by_o any_o scot_n presbytery_n we_o grant_v you_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o people_n consent_n only_o but_o if_o according_a to_o the_o word_n that_o make_v a_o government_n lawful_a but_o wherefore_o may_v not_o a_o congregationall_a representative_a church_n as_o well_o choose_v man_n for_o classical_a assembly_n as_o for_o synod_n what_o pattern_n have_v you_o for_o the_o one_o rather_o then_o for_o the_o other_o to_o all_o this_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a custom_n you_o say_v much_o but_o prove_v little_a or_o nothing_o of_o what_o be_v in_o dispute_n betwixt_o we_o many_o book_n you_o make_v but_o little_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o now_o when_o you_o can_v do_v no_o better_o you_o can_v yourselves_o most_o desperate_o on_o the_o bishop_n side_n to_o maintain_v their_o cause_n when_o you_o be_v yet_o too_o weak_a to_o maintain_v your_o own_o this_o well-willer_n in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n wish_n that_o the_o commissioner_n golden_a speech_n be_v write_v upon_o all_o their_o action_n viz._n that_o those_o that_o be_v most_o averse_a to_o presbytery_n if_o they_o allow_v no_o matertall_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n or_o practice_n may_v enjoy_v their_o peace_n and_o all_o comfort_n of_o their_o ministry_n and_o profession_n under_o it_o without_o controllment_n of_o that_o authoritative_a power_n which_o they_o so_o much_o apprehend_v and_o thereunto_o repli_v we_o have_v say_v he_o be_v of_o late_o make_v to_o fear_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o report_n of_o some_o not_o of_o the_o mean_a rank_n rf_v your_o own_o nation_n answ_n no_o godly_a man_n that_o know_v what_o be_v presbyterian_a government_n can_v doubt_v of_o it_o for_o according_a to_o the_o rule_v thereof_o 1._o no_o man_n be_v compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o own_o conscience_n 2._o if_o you_o will_v be_v under_o it_o and_o allow_v no_o material_a difference_n etc._n etc._n without_o doubt_v the_o synod_n and_o all_o orthodox_n church_n will_v cherish_v you_o and_o assure_v you_o of_o it_o but_o if_o you_o will_v ever_o live_v in_o panic_n fear_n and_o be_v so_o witty_a as_o evermore_o to_o find_v out_o new_a matter_n of_o jealousy_n to_o vex_v your_o own_o soul_n and_o make_v you_o to_o live_v in_o such_o a_o perpetual_a diffidence_n all_o the_o force_n of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o three_o kingdom_n be_v not_o able_a to_o hinder_v it_o you_o must_v trust_v in_o god_n and_o admit_v of_o such_o security_n from_o your_o brethren_n as_o moral_o you_o can_v have_v if_o this_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o advise_v you_o as_o for_o that_o anonymous_n countryman_n of_o we_o who_o he_o can_v be_v and_o if_o any_o such_o be_v and_o whether_o his_o discourse_n with_o you_o can_v give_v you_o matter_n of_o just_a fear_n we_o know_v not_o and_o therefore_o forbear_v to_o answer_v only_o i_o wish_v serious_o on_o your_o behalf_n you_o will_v do_v nothing_o against_o the_o glory_n of_o your_o god_n the_o weal_n of_o your_o country_n or_o to_o the_o breach_n of_o charity_n with_o your_o brethren_n who_o so_o much_o desire_n to_o live_v in_o peace_n with_o you_o all_o the_o peace_n of_o god_n be_v with_o you_o all_o amen_n finis_fw-la