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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81336	A collection of speeches made by Sir Edward Dering Knight and Baronet, in matter of religion. Some formerly printed, and divers more now added: all of them revised, for the vindication of his name, from weake and wilfull calumnie: and by the same Sir Edward Dering now subjected to publike view and censure, upon the urgent importunity of many, both gentlemen and divines.	Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644.	1642 (1642)	Wing D1104; Thomason E197_1; ESTC R212668	73,941	173

in way of pursuit for this one argument that no Canons can bind the Laity where we have no voyce of our own nor choyce of the Clergy persons who do found them nor assent in the susception of them after they are framed Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus tractari debet M. Speaker It remaines as a wish that every member of that meeting who voted these exorbitant Canons should come severally to the Bar of the Parliament House with a Canon book in his hand and there unlesse he can answer his Catechisme as I called it shew what is the name of their meeting and unlesse he can manifest that the Laity are no part of the Church Conceptis verbis in such expresse terms as that House should think fit to abjure his own ill-begotten issue or else be commanded to give fire to his own Canons Section VI UPon my motion November 23. it pleased the grand Committee for Religion to appoint a Subcommittee to receive complaints from oppressed Ministers which Subcommittee was shortly after made a Committee by order of the House It pleased the Gentlemen of this Committee to put the honour and the burden of the chaire upon me from hence severall Reports have been delivered in I shall only trouble the Reader with the first of them 18 Decemb. 1640. Mr. White This grand Committee for Religion did authorize a Sub-committee among other things to take into consideration the unjust sufferings of good Ministers oppressed by the cruell-used authority of Hierarchicall Rulers In this and in other points we have entred upon many particulars we have matured and perfected but one If we had lesse worke you should before this time have had more but complaints crowd in so fast upon us that the very plenty of them retards their issue The present Report which I am to make unto you is concerning M. Wilkinson a Batchellor in Divinity and a man in whose character do concur Learning Piety Industry Modesty Two hardships have been put upon him one at the time when he presented himselfe to receive Orders and that was thus The Bishop of Oxfords Chaplen M Fulham being the examiner for Bishops now do scorne to do Bishops work it belongs to himselfe he propoundeth foure questions to M. Wilkinson not taken out of the depth of Divinity but fitly chosen to discover how affections do stand to be novellized by the mutability of the present times The questions were these 1. Whether hath the Church authority in matters of faith 2. May the Kings booke of sports so some impious Bishops have abused our pious King to call their contrivance His Majesties book may this be read in the Church without offence 3. Is bowing to or before the Altar lawfull 4. Is bowing at the Name of Jesus lawfull The doctrine of the first affirmed will bring a dangerous influence upon our beliefe by subjecting our faith to humane resolutions The other three are disciplinarian in the present way of Novellisme As soon as M. Wilkinson heard these questions Lupum auribus he had a Wolfe by the eares And because unto these captious interrogatories he could not make a peremptory answer M. Fulham would not present your petitioner to the Bishop for ordination Thus you see Mr. White a new way of Simony Imposition of hands is to be sold if not for money yet to make a side a party a faction They will not confer Orders but upon such as will come in and make party with them in their new practices as is evident by these questions Take this in this kind as a leading case a first complaint more are comming and M. Wilkinson shall have the poore common comfort Solamen miseris socios habuisse I proceed to his second sufferance which was by the Vice-chancellor of Oxford for a Sermon preached in his course at S. Marys in Oxford Short to make he preached better then they were willing to heare the Sermon fell into the eares of a captious Auditour For this Sermon he stands now suspended by the Vice-chancellor from all the spirituall promotion that he had which was only the reading of a Divinity lecture in Magdalen-hall The Committee required the Vice-chancellor to send unto us the Sermon with his exceptions in writing They were brought and being received they are three in number great and weighty in the accusation none at all in proof Nay M. White there is nothing presented unto us wherein to finde a colour or a shadow whereby to make the accusation semblable and consequently the suspension just Ecquis innocens erit si accusare suffecerit The particulars insisted upon pickt and chosen out of that Sermon by the Vice-chancellor are three every one a hainous charge and the first sounding little lesse then treason Give me leave to read them as Mr. Vicechancellor hath sent them in writing 1. Our religious Soveraigne and his pious government is seditiously defamed as if his Majesty were little better then the old pagan persecutors or then Queen Mary 2. The government of the Church and Vniversity is unjustly traduced 3. Men of learning and piety conformable to the publicke government are uncharitably slandered The least of these being duly proved will make him worthy of suspension but if M. Wilkinson be guilty of the first he is not worthy to live The truth is the Vice-chancellor hath learned audacter criminare and fayling in proofe hath only fowled himselfe Your Subcommittee upon due consideration of the cause and circumstance have hereupon unanimously voted that M. Wilkinson is free from all and every of these exceptions made against his Sermon by the Vice-chancellor We are all of opinion that there is nothing therein that deserves Notam censoris nedum lituram judicis If M. White there be in a Sermon as there ought to be aliquid mordacis veritatis shall the Preacher be for this suspended His mouth shut up for preaching truth boldly It is contrary to their commission for Sir they have a great charter to speak freely it is warranted unto them Jure divino Saint Paul doth own it in his instruction of Timothy The words are I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ preach the word be instant in season out of season reprove rebuke exhort For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine Here is our case exactly Here was reproofe here was exhortation here was preaching out of season to unwilling or to unprepared hearers and yet in season the Theame was necessary and fitted to their want of zeale But the only fault was that the time is come when sound doctrine will not be endured Thus the Committee found it thus have I faithfully but imperfectly reported it and do now subjoyn the opinion and request of your trustees to this grand Committee Mr. Wilkinson is innocent and free from this accusation He had just cause to petition The Vice-chancellor hath been without cause nay against cause rigid and oppressive The Sermon deserved

A Collection of Speeches MADE BY Sir EDWARD DERING KNIGHT and BARONET in matter of RELIGION Some formerly printed and divers more now added All of them revised For the VINDICATION Of His NAME From weake and wilfull calumnie And by the same Sir EDWARD DERING now subjected to publike VIEW and CENSURE Upon the urgent importunity of many both Gentlemen and Divines Ovid Dat veniam Corvis vexat censura Columbas Aristoph. in Avib {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} LONDON Printed by E. G. for F. Eglesfield and Jo. Stafford 1642. To the Reader LET them who are in a fault ransom themselves with excusatory defences I have no such worke in hand A short Narration will be my just Vindication Apologies are ever read with Jealousie and they are indeed but after-games at Reputation These sheets doe not weare that livery I have no need to Apologize Nothing in my selfe hath moved me to open these Papers abroad and what need I regard the empty opinion of such as doe either weakely or wilfully traduce But they doe traduce it is said that I doe {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} yet none can justly say where when to whom or what I ever said that I doe since recede from Reader if thou either be a Scholler or a Gentleman read and censure freely I feare no blot from thy hand if thou be neither cast what dirt thou wilt none will sticke on me And indeed I had rather if thou be such beare the scourge of thy tongue then have the kisses of thy lips The latter would make me suspect my selfe the former would beget a hope of some merit in me A well-fare to my Reader if hee be either of birth or breeding A farewell to the rest Edward Dering Section I. WHy am I thus unhappily and thus publickly engaged If my head and my heart have alway gone even pace together if my conscience and my tongue have ever kept one tune how is it that I heare my selfe changed If any thing I have said or done be contrariant nay if dissonant or retardant to a most severe Reformation the utmost of my constant wish and profession nay if upon any occasion I have therein been remisse and tepid if upon all occasions I have not given my active and my hearty endeavours thereunto some good friend be a true glasse unto me and reflect that by-past errour to my sight againe I will owne the fault if it be mine and thanke him But if some passengers in I know not what Ship saile by untill their owne heads be giddy they may as well say that the Hils and Trees upon the shoare as that I am moved Whilst they are floating I stand steady wondring to what coast they are bound The question is whether ever I professed my selfe for Root and Branch that is the Shibboleth whereby some try whether you are for Ruine or for Reforming Every one is not catechized in plain tearmes as I was Art thou for us or for our adversaries So said one of the usuall blacke walkers in Westminster Hall Another of our Parliament-pressing Ministers after I had delivered my sence upon Episcopacy in the House came to me and told me plainely That my conscience was not so good as in the beginning of the Parliament Yet I may and doe challenge him or any man to instance where when and what I have said to deserve this opinion of change I presse not this as fondly glorying in a pertinacy No I professe my selfe ready and willing at any time to imbrace a corrected understanding let any of them who hath temper discretion and charity come and try me I have no end no ayme to lead me but faire truth I have no byas but a conscience warmed with zeale and therefore when I change if I change it shall be the conquest and victory of truth upon me And I then shall never be ashamed of being wonne but will glory in the change But I delivered in the Bill for abolition of Episcopacy True my friend then next me urged me with importunacy that I would receive it and plainly said it should goe in how ever and so I am assured it had but not with so faint commendations as I bestowed on it which I dare say gave no weight unto the worke The Bill was then lesse then two sheets of Paper and by subjoyning two more might have given us the old originall Episcopacy even with the same hand that abrogated the present Beside the chiefe end then was to expedite the progresse of another Bill against the secular jurisdiction of the Bishops at that very time labouring in the House of Lords So that this Bill did in my sence iniquum Petere ut aequum ferret Little did I or any man there imagine that those two sheetes should be multiplied with addition of above forty more and yet unfinished The onely colour or rather shadow whereupon some thought me as fierce for ruine as themselves was my fortune or misfortune to strike first and shortly after secondly at the tallest Cedar on the Churches Lebanon T is true I did so and am nothing sorry for the blow His crimes were many the complaints were fresh with me and my selfe entrusted by that County where his Diocese is seated as fit as any to strike that stroke This was at that time received and applauded as an act of justice but by the same men of late traduced as relishing of personall malignity Non sic didici Christum I thanke God my heart hath never yet knowne the swelling of a personall malice And for the Bishop I professe I did and doe beare a good degree of personall love unto him a love unto some parts and qualities which I thinke him master of His intent of publike uniformity was a good purpose though in the way of his pursuit there of he was extreamely faulty His booke lately set forth especially for the latter halfe thereof hath muzled the Jesuite and shall strike the Papists under the fifth ribbe when he is dead and gone And being dead wheresoever his grave shall be Paul's will be his perpetuall monument and his owne booke his lasting Epitaph It is true the roughnesse of his uncourtly nature sent most men discontented from him yet would he often of himselfe finde waies and meanes to sweeten many of them againe when they least looked for it Lastly he was alway one and the same man begin with him at Oxford and so goe on to Canterbury he is un-mov'd unchanged he never complied with the times but kept his own stand untill the times came up to him Hee is not now in a condition to be flattered nor was I ever so low to use it I did not accuse him for these I strucke another string and that of so right a tune to them that are stung with the Tarantula that I was instantly voyced more as they would have me then I was For the truth is I did not dreame at that

generall which thus you may receive Gods true Religion is violently invaded by two seeming enemies but indeed they are like Herod and Pilate fast friends for the destruction of truth I meane the Papists for one party and our Prelating faction for the other Betweene these two in their severall progresse I observe the concurrence of some few Parallels fit as I conceive to be represented to this Honourable House First with the Papists there is a severe Inquisition and with us as it is used there is a bitter high Commission both these contra fas jus are Judges in their own cause yet herein their Inquisitors are better then our High Commissioners They for ought I ever heard do not saevire in suos punish for delinquents and offenders such as professe and practice according to the Religion established by the Lawes of the Land where they live But with us how many poore distressed Ministers nay how many scores of them in a few yeeres past have been suspended degraded deprived excommunicated not guilty of the breach of any our established Lawes The petitions of many are here with us more are comming all their prayers are in Heaven for redresse Secondly with the Papists there is a Mysterious artifice I mean their Index expurgatorius whereby they clip the tongues of such witnesses whose evidence they do not like To this I parallell our late Imprimatur's Licences for the Presse so handled that Truth is supprest and popish pamphlets fly abroad cum privilegio witnesse the audacious and Libelling Pamphlets against true Religion written by Pocklington Heylin Dow Cosins Shelford Swan Reeves Yates Hausted Studley Sparow Brown Roberts Many more I name no Bishops but I adde c. Nay they are already grown so bold in this new trade that the most learned labours of our ancient and best Divines must be now corrected and defaced with a Deleatur by the supercilious pen of my Lords yong Chaplain fit perhaps for the technicall arts but unfit to hold the Chaire for Divinity But herein the Roman Index is better then are our English Licences They thereby do preserve the current of their own established doctrine a point of wisdome But with us our Innovators by this artifice do alter our setled Doctrines Nay they do subinduce points repugnant and contrariant And this I dare assume upon my selfe to prove One Parallel more I have and that is this Among the Papists there is one acknowledged supreme Pope supreme in honour in order and in power from whose judgement there is no appeale I confesse M. Speaker I cannot altogether match a Pope with a Pope yet one of the ancient titles of our English Primate was Alterius orbis Papa But thus far I can go Ex ore suo It is in Print He pleads faire for a Patriarchate And for such an one whose judgement he before-hand professeth ought to be finall and then I am sure it ought to be un-erring Put these together and you shall find that the finall determination of a Patriarch will want very little of a Pope and then we may say Mutato nomine de te Fabula narratur He pleads Popeship under the name of a Patriarch And I much feare least the end and top of his Patriarchall plea may be as that of Cardinall Pole his predecessor who would have two heads one Caput Regale another Caput Sacerdotale a proud parallell to set up the Miter as high as the Crown But herein I shall be free and cleare if one there must be be it a Pope be it a Patriarch this I resolve upon for my owne choyce Procul a Iove procul a fulnime I had rather serve one as far off as Tyber then to have him come so neere me as the Thames A Pope at Rome will do me lesse hurt then a Patriarch may do at Lambeth I have done and for this third Parallel I submit it to the wisdome and consideration of this grand Committee for Religion in the mean time I do ground my motion upon the former two and it is this in brief That you would please to select a subcommittee of a few and to impower them for the discovery of the numbers of oppresse Ministers under the Bishops tyranny for these ten yeers last past We have the complaint of some but more are silent some are patient and will not complaine others are fearefull and dare not many are beyond Sea and cannot complaine And in the second place that the sub-Committee may examine the Printers what books by bad Licences have been corruptly issued forth and what good books have been like good Ministers silenced clipped or cropped The worke I conceive will not be difficult but will quickly returne into your hand full of weight And this is my motion What is here for Root and Branch But I must search farther although for that which I am sure cannot be found Section IV. I Come now the likeliest tryall wherein to find my self guilty A petition was brought unto me out of Kent in terminis terminantibus as that from many Citizens of London which is in print This indeed if it were not the Spawne of the London petition yet finding it a Parrat taught to speake the syllables of that and by roate calling for Root and Branch I dealt with the presenters thereof and with other parties thereunto untill with their consents I reduced it to lesse then a quarter of it former length and taught it a new and more modest language Upon delivery of this petition thus I prefaced January 13. 1640. M. Speaker YEsterday we did regulate the most important businesse before us and gave them motion so that our weighty affaires are now on their feet in their progresse journying on towards their severall periods where some I hope will shortly find their latest home Yet among all these I observe one a very main one to sleep sine die give me leave to awaken it It is a businesse of an immense weight and worth such as deserves our best care and most severe circumspection I mean the Grand Petition long since given in by many thousand Citizens against the domineering of the Cleargy Wherein for my part although I cannot approve of all that is presented unto you yet I do clearely professe that a great part of it nay the greatest part thereof is so well grounded that my heart goes cheerfully along therewith It seems that my Country for which I have the honour to serve is of the same mind and least that you should think that all faults are included within the walls of Troy they will shew you Iliacos intra muros peccatur extra The same grievances which the City groans under are provincial unto us and I much feare they are nationall among us all The Pride the Avarice the Ambition and oppression by our ill ruling Clergy is Epidemicall it hath infected them all There is not any or scarce any of them who is not practicall in their

well chosen and well temper'd Nationall Synod and Gods blessing thereon this may cure us without this in my poor opinion England is like to turne it selfe into a great Amsterdam And unlesse this Councell be very speedy the disease will be above the cure Therefore that we may have a full fruition of what is here but promised I doe humbly move that you will command forth the Bill for a Nationall Synod to be read the next morning I saw the Bill above five moneths since in the hand of a worthy member of this House If that Bill be not to be had then my humble motion is as formerly that you would name a Committee to draw up another This being once resolved I would then desire that all motions of Religion this about the Liturgy especially may be transferred thither and you will finde it to be the way of peace and unity among us here I might have added in due place above a mention of 1 frequent schismaticall conventicles 2 That Taylers Shoomakers Braziers Feltmakers do climbe our publick Pulpits 3 That several odde irregular fasts have been held for partiall venting of private flatteries of some slanders of other members of this House 4 That the distinction of Clergy and Laity is popish and Antichristian and ought no longer to remaine 5 That the Lords Prayer was not taught us to be used 6 That no Nationall Church can be a true Church of God 7 That the visible Church of Antichrist did make the King Head of the Church 8 That supreme power in Church affaires is in every severall Congregation 9 That a Presbytery without a Bishop was in the world before it was at Geneva 10 That it is a heynous sinne to be present when prayers are read out of a booke 11 That to communicate in presence of a prophane person is to partake of his prophanenesse 12 That Christs kingdome hath beene a Candle under a bushell whilest Antichrist hath out-raigned him for 1600 yeares together Many many more instances at little leisure I can gather which together have begotten a generall increase of open Libertinisme secret Atheisme bold Arminianisme desperate Socinianisme stupid Anabaptisme and with these the new Chiliastes and the wilfulnesse of Papists strangely and strongly confirmed by these distractions Good God! looke downe and direct our consultations The best issue whereof I think would be to debate the whole debate of Relgion out of our doores by putting it into a free Synod whereupon I doubt not but we should grow unanimous in all our other works Section XV THe Remonstrance or great Declaration went out of the House much better then it came in When it was engrossed and presented to the last vote with us I gave in my exceptions thus 22 Novemb. 1641. Mr. Speaker THis Remonstrance is now in progresse upon its last foot in this House I must give a vote unto it one way or other my conscience bids me not to dare to be affirmative So sings the bird in my breast and I do cheerfully believe the tune to be good This Remonstrance whensoever it passeth will make such an impression and leave such a character behinde both of his Majesty the People the Parliament and of this present Church and State as no Time shall ever eat it out whilest Histories are written and men have eyes to read them How curious then ought we to be both in the matter and the forme Herein is a severe point of conscience to be tryed Let us be sure that every particular substance be a Truth and let us cloathe that Truth with a free language yet a modest and a sober language Mr. Speaker This Remonstrance is in some kinde greater and more extensive then an act of Parliament that reacheth only to England and Wales but in this the three Kingdomes will be your immediate supervisors and the greatest part of Christendome will quickly borrow the glasse to see our deformities therin They will scanne this worke at leisure which I hope we shall not shut up in haste Some pieces here are of excellent use and worth but what is that to me if I may not have them without other parts that are both doubtfull and dangerous The matter forme and finall end of this Remonstrance all of them doe argue with me not to remonstrate thus The end to what end doe we decline thus to them that looke not for it Wherefore is this descension from a Parliament to a People they looke not up for this so extraordinary courtesie The better sort think best of us And why are we told that the people are expectant for a Declaration I did never looke for it of my predecessors in this place nor shall do from my successors I do here professe that I do not know any one soul in all that Country for which I have the honour to serve who lookes for this at your hands They do humbly and heartily thanke you for many good lawes and statutes already enacted and pray for more That is the language best understood of them and most welcome to them They do not expect to heare any other stories of what you have done much lesse promises of what you will do Mr. Speaker When I first heard of a Remonstrance I presently imagined that like faithfull Counsellors we should hold up a glasse unto his Majesty I thought to represent unto the King the wicked counsels of pernicious Counsellors The restlesse turbulency of practicall Papists The treachery of false Judges The bold innovations and some superstition brought in by some pragmaticall BB and the rotten part of the Clergy I did not dream that we should remonstrate downeward tell stories to the people and talke of the King as of a third person The use and end of such Remonstrance I understand not at least I hope I do not Mr. Speaker In the forme of this Remonstrance if it were presented to you from a full Committee yet I am bold to make this Quaere whether that Committee have presented to us any heads in this Remonstrance which were not first agitated here and recommended to them from this House if they have there wanteth then for so much the formall power that should actuate and enlive the worke so brought unto us as may be well observed by perusing the order now above a twelvemoneth old for constituting that Committee In the matter of this Remonstrance I except against severall particulars but upon the transient reading of it not having any view therof I will gather up two instances only very obvious very easie to be observed First as was also observed by a learned Noble Lord who spake last here is a charge of a high crime against all the BB. in the land and that above all proof that yet I have heard Your words are Idolatry introduced by command of the BB. What plain flat formall Idolatry name the species of this idolatry that is introduced by the BB. that is for indefinite propositions are aequipollent

If this way have any favourers in this House let them owne their Religion and speake for it The next is the Presbyteriall way a more orderly and a better tempered novelty then the other but a novelty and indeed but elder brother to Independency upon this you had my sence at midsomer last It is enough for me that I can point out when it began since my father was born or I am sure at most in my grandfathers days and it is my fixed resolution that since by Gods blessing I am of the oldest Religion I will never consent to any but to the oldest government The third way is Episcopall the originall whereof is high and beyond my search to define yet this I am bold to affirme it had a Being and that an allowed Being in the best the first the purest age and as I said before if it be not of Apostolicall institution yet cleare enough it is of Apostolicall permission It will be said that our Bishops are nothing such yet Sir I pray you may not they be easier made such then the Dutch or Scottish Presbytery or a new-England Independency can be what is our work but to reforme I would the question were put whether our Episcopacy shall be reformed or not But Mr. Speaker it is true there are degrees in Episcopacie it self and to this point also give mee leave to expresse my self and it may be necessary for me so to doe although I am confident you are herein prae-resolved as I wish Sir the stairs are so easie and ambition that first made Divels is so apt to climbe that so long as the ladder is not taken away The 1 Priest would be a 2 rurall Deane He an 3 Archdeacon Then 4 a Bishop An 5 Archbishop A 6 Metropolitan A 7 Primate The Primate would be a 8 Patriarch his owne book breathed that hope and once a Patriarch why not a 9 Pope Thus have you nine degrees of a terrestriall Hierarchy sutable to the invented nine orders of a Coelestiall Hierarchy among the Angels It was a fond fancy to invent them in the world above and it will prove a dangerous folly in us to suffer these in the world below One of the links of this chaine is almost burst asunder never let that be sodered again Sir In uno Syllâ multi Marii Cut off but one Archiepiscopacie and you shall at once destroy with it both Metropolitan Primate and Patriarch and in time the Pope also Archiepiscopie why who ever voted that to be divine nay who can give a good morall and prudentiall reason for the subsistence of Archiepiscopie This indeed is a Prince among the Lordly Prelates and they all doe swear Canonicall fealty and allegeance to his soveraigne Miter But I forbear being confident there is a concurrency enough in this House to vote the Abolition of that needlesse and that dangerous degree So then my sence is thus in briefe Away with Archiepiscopacy both root and branch Away with my Lord Bishop both root and branch Touch not our Pastor Bishop Reform reduce replant our Bishop President and with him his Presbytery Give him his ancient due and proper power Let him ordain censure but with due assistancie and not otherwise Reason and necessity and all exemplar government require this Episcopacy Shew me a Colledge without a Master A Citie without a Governour A ship without a Pylot An Army without a Generall Doe the States thrive without an Excellency or doth Venice prosper without a Duke or can you secure our own House in order without a Speaker But Sir I have heard some among us say if then we must have a Bishop let him be like a Pylot onely for a voyage let him be like your self a Speaker onely for a Parliament I answer if but so yet is it better then any other way that I see yet propounded to you far better then the hazardous way of Commissioners that shall begin now and end no man knows when But Sir I come in againe upon my own ground and doe affirme that ab initio non fuit sic your Bishop of old was not occasionall pro re natâ and immediately degraded nothing so but continued a fixed constant perpetuall moderator and president for life unlesse outed for his own demerits I am for the old way Reason and Religion have allowed it and the constant practise of the best and most ancient times hath honoured it Take this also farther to approve it If your Bishop President be not constant the encouragement to Pietie and Learning will not be so constant Let desert in the Church have in its own sphaere as desert in the civil State hath a constant reward of Honour and of Profit For Sir Honour and Profit must invite forth Learning and industry or you shall have none Thus have you with my imperfections my sense upon Episcopall government the first part of your Bill I passe in brief unto their Cathedrall Covents my second distribution Mr. Speaker I have beene diligent and attentive to the whole procedure of all debates of this nature yet am I just where I ever was nothing moved not at all changed unlesse this be a change that by hearing my owne sense better argued for by others then I could doe for my self it is now deeper fortifyed within me One main exception to the quite voting away our Cathedrals ever was and doth yet remaine with me That which sticks with me is this what certainty what security shall I have that Learning and Religion shall have a perpetuall maintenance and a sure reward of Honour and of Profit proportionall you will say that your Vote already passed will secure me nothing so You have indeed voted that all the Lands of the Deans and Chapters shall be employed to the advancement of Learning and Pietie But in the mean time what becomes of the Bishops Lands They are Cathedrall also if you take away the present proprietor what shall become of the Land we shall not rifle for it Shall we make a gift of what is none of our own or shall we cure the Common-wealth at the cost of the Church I heare little said in the house I hear too much in private But I proceed This Vote I say doth not secure mee It is too generall My reason why I am not herewith satisfied is this because for ought this Vote expresseth you may give all the Land to any one use onely and performe your Vote as for instance if all the wealth of Deaneries be distributed among the Parish Ministers onely your Vote is fulfilled But all the Learning and the Pietie that we are bound to take care of is not thereby provided for This I say doth therefore stick with me and notwithstanding your generall Vote so inwardly that untill I doe see and know how and in what manner the use and the particular disposall of this great revenue both Episcopall and conventuall shall be I cannot concurre to vote away the