the Assembly hath vowed and covenanted to come as neare as they can in the Government of this Church unto that of other Reformed Churches and namely of that of Scotland taking evermore Gods Word for their first patterne and infallible rule of direction 10. They are thanked for it because it refuteth some unworthy aspersions that some have fastened upon the Government of the Reformed Churches now who can those be judge you Sir If here the one be thanked I may probably say the other getteth little thanks for his paines 11. The Assembly rejoyceth at the washing away of those aspersions yea unworthy aspersions as they are termed by them 12. The Authors of such filthie aspersions were there said to affect wayes of their owne now what can be those wayes that be their owne since they are not called Gods wayes judge yee againe 13. They are paralleled there with Bishops being both two opposite enemies to the Government of the true Reformed Churches the Bishops saying no Bishop no King and the others that the Reformed Churches gave not the Civill Magistrate his due which I interpret to bee as if the one said a King cannot be without a Bishop and the other a King cannot bee with Presbyteriall Government 14. Because it was there said that it was necessary to vindicate the Churches of God from so unjust imputations 15. Because the Assembly like wise men commended very highly the sincerity gravity and ingenuity of the Book 16. Because the Synod declareth how it acknowledgeth it self very much beholden to the Commissioners for the vindication of their owne and other Protestant Churches 17. It is called a temperate and seasonable vindication 18. The Assembly saith in name of all the Churches of this Kingdome that they desire to keep with them all and that of Scotland a more arct Communion and uniformity in the Ordinances of Jesus Christ 19. The Assembly declareth there that they had a very high esteeme of the Church of Scotland 20. It commended also the Commissioners for their judicious and grave discourse in the Assembly which contributed much to the foresaid Uniformitie with all the Protestant Churches And all this I have deduced at length not onely to refute this untruth but many others heretofore and hereafter which this unworthy Pamphleter casteth upon the Commissioners yea upon all our Churches to kindle a fire of Division betwixt the Civill Magistrate and them in these most calamitous times when both Church and State are in combustion already But after such evident untruths he addeth if observation faile not Here he seemeth to make us believe that the Author of this Pamphlet is one of the Members of the Assembly or that some Member of the Assembly has dealt treacherously and perfidiously with the Assembly in pinning upon them such an Act flatly contrary to their formall expressions for none but some Member of the Assembly could make any such observation But of this I will say nothing it being a matter of higher concernment I beleeve rather that the Author of this Booke is minded in principio medio fine to be like to himselfe P. 4. § 1. We read nothing else but of the Independenters admirations which Philosophers call the daughter of ignorance and some of their thoughts and judgements as if they were giving an account of their Creed as p. 2. we read nothing but Interjections of lamentation ah oh c. of holy and gracious men whereas we crave some quia's ergo's or other rationall Conjunctions whereunto we cannot better reply then did Scotus to a Doctor of the Sorbone in Paris This Doctor when he could not answer Scotus his argument by Reason said evermore Respondeo cum Sancto Doctore Cum S. Doctore replied the other si sanctus oret pro nobis si Doctor respondeat ad argumentum so we to you If those men among you be holy let them cry ah for their sinnes and pray to God for Gods Church but let Doctors propound and answer arguments but this man reasoneth not but giveth out Sentences as if he were some Iudge of one of the Benches You doe but imagine and fancie whatsoever you say in this Section of your imagination of the Commissioners extr ajudiciall and eccentricall Act your acts may rather seeme Eccentricall secundum quid to London and Concentricall secundum quid with Oxford where me thinkes they have more regard a great deale to your tender Consciences then to those of the Commissioners Neither can any mortall man hinder so independent imaginations It hath been already proved that you have given the first second and third blow and in your Apologeticall Narration you threatned yet another your judgement is utterly erronious in thinking that this was intended to disunite the Presbiterians from others i. e. from Independenters since no others can well be thought upon all other Orthodox Churches and all the Synod being no other for their intention is altogether to unite you with them Neither are there for any thing we know any that disunite you from them or them from you save your selves onely P. 4. § 3. This well willer is very impertinent in proving against the Commissioners that Visibility and Succession are not essentiall notes of a true Church which they I beleeve never thought I am sure never said And yet I must say that howsoever visibility be not essentiall to a true Church yet it is essentiall to a true visible Church whereof we all dispute here And howsoever of a true Church wee cannot inferre visibility yet from true visibility we may infer a true Church P. 5. § 1. He blesseth God that God hath made a Rehoboth for the Scots And God willing wee shall bee fruitfull in the Land as Isaac and we pray God he and his be not as the Herdsmen of Gerar even striving with our Herdsmen of Isaac If we have a Rehoboth wherefore will yee not drinke of our Spring wherefore to use your termes will ye not jumpe with us or if yee will not ye may be gone as Lot with your Pastours and separate your selves from Abraham and Isaac Ibid. Who can hinder the windes if they blow and bring blacke weather from the North or West Answ No true English hearts have made any such judgement of the Northerly windes these three yeares last past How much trulier might it bee said of a few Donatisticall spirits with their Vbi habitas amica mea in meridie that trouble their mother Church esteeming all her children unworthy of their Communion Pag. 5. § 3. Ye come up me thinkes somewhat lamely with your Catalogue of Prophets 1. For onely ye have one Brightman and yet none of yours hee is of ours for he preferreth the Scots Church constituted of Parochiall Classicall and Synodall Assemblies before all other or at least postpones it to no others 2. Neither in exposing the Prophecies of Scripture according to Scripture can he be said to have had the gift of Prophecie since his expositions were not
his sweet Brethren but to examine all things and to retaine what is good and to consider that a man so bold and adventrous as to propound in face of this most honourable and wise Parliament the venerable Assembly of so godly and learned Divines and of all the world so many so palpable untruths must needs be very passionate for those opinions which with so blinde a zeale and so little care of his credit hee maintaineth here and may be no lesse passionate in other things then in this As for the reasons and motives inducing me to refute this Libell they were not any stuffe the Booke contained or the least feare I had that it could worke upon any rationall man nor set I upon it with purpose to offend any man no not the five Independent Members of the Synod yea nor so much as the Author of this Libell who has so highly offended all the best Reformed Churches for never any one of them offended me neither is it their Act neither beleeve I that they had any hand in it or if they had any they avow it not And as for the Author I can not offend him wittingly since I know him not and this I hope would excuse very much the offence if any should be nor indeed ought hee to take offence at this Answer since he dare not owne the Booke Now if he be either a wise man or any wayes gracious I suppose hee ought rather to thanke mee for such an ingenuous reproving of his wicked calumnies against the whole body of the Reformed Churches for A reproofe saith the Wiseman entreth more into a wise man then an hundred stripes into a foole Besides as I conceive it is an act of love for as a Father saith Aust Epist ad Mate Magis amat objurgator sanans quam adulator dissimulans Neither can such indignities well bee endured by any man that knoweth how handsomly to cast them off especially when they are published in Print and that because of the imminent danger thereby of infecting the weaker sort of people not onely that now are but also of the posterity to come For as saith the Roman Philosopher Vitia transmittis ad posteres Sen. de Morib qui prasentibus culpis parcit But if he should be so fond as to thinke that he has done well in what he has done yet shall this Answer have some effect upon him for as Gregory saith well Greg in Past Protervos tunc melius corrigimus cum aequae bene egisse credunt male acta monstramus ut unde adepta gloria creditur inde utilis confessio sequatur As for me I can truly say my principall aime and motive was Gods honour the vindication of the Protestant Churches and especially that of Scotland from this mans vilde aspersions and to give contentment to good people who I am afraid may have beeno deceived with the glorious pretext of this mans piety and particularly that I might comply with the desires of those my worthy friends that moved me hereunto And so come I to the Title of the Booke which is A coole Conference betweene the cleered Reformation and the Apologeticall Narration braught together by a well willer to both Here it is to be observed 1. That this Booke carrieth with it no Approbation by those who are ordained by the Parliament to licence the printing of any Bookes From whence it may be inferred that in so contemning their Lawes and Ordinances and afterwards in maintaining that Independents of whom hee pretendeth to bee one give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of Presbyterian Government permit them to doe that this is done and that said in derision of them both and by a man no wise minded to practise what hee saith or professeth by some Nostro damus of whom it is said Nostro damus cum verba damus quia fallere nostrum Et cum verba damus nil nisi nostr a damus Or rather done as the Souldiers did to Christ who bowed the knee to him saying Haile King of the Iewes and mocked him spit upon him He giveth them much Paper-honour with much reall disgrace and will live as Independent upon all Civill as all Ecclesiasticall authoritie 2. It is to be observed as I said before that the Author taketh no proper name to himselfe but onely is described by a common name which is more ordinary among beasts then men For as mens individuall Natures and Persons are signified by proper Names so are all beasts ordinarily represented by names common to the whole Species if you except a few tame beasts so here there is no individuum signatum for to owne this Pamphlet which maketh some judicious men to thinke that he found himselfe conscious of what I have said or am to say and therefore went cunningly to worke in not owning it for feare of some castigation in stead of confutation 3. That this Authors common Name here is a Good-willer to both whereupon at first before that I had read over the Booke I wondred much what sort of creature this could bee what Hybrida and Amphisbaena in matter of Religion bred of so opposite Species having its heads in so opposite parts carried by so contrary motions towards so contrary ends viz. of Dependency and Independency But afterwards in running it over I found no such thing answerable to the Frontispiece neither in matter nor in manner For it ye consider the first it is nothing else but an intended justification howsoever with little successe of the Apologeticall Narration and a senslesse arraignment of the Reformation cleared If the second likewise his expressions which bee evermore we us our c. testifie most evidently that hee is a formall partie Truly hee willeth the Commissioners so little and his Quinqu ' Ecclesian Ministers so much good in this cause that he would make the world beleeve that the one partie saith all and the other nothing at all But what ever good ye will them pardon us if we give you no credit till they be brought together and it bee seene what each of them can say for themselves In the meane time I pray the Reader to take notice how this man in the evry threshold furnishes us with so evident an argument of his weaknesse in that intending a disguisement he had no better contrivance then by his owne penne so shamefully to bewray himselfe Alas poore man that professing here so much truth and honestie thou shouldst thus foully betray thy selfe to be neither true nor honest He endeth his Booke in an extraordinary way with an c. intimating something of the Booke behinde and afterward Finis assuring us of nothing behinde as if his onely aime were to contradict himselfe and so to try our patience and his owne parties credulity how farre the contrary partie will permit or his owne admit such palpable untruths both in the beginning and in the end of his Book Ecclesiast 10.32 The word of a
foole will swallow himselfe The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnesse and the end of his talke is mischievous madnesse O what a shame in this Prophet that professeth such pietie that the lying spirit should so prevaile in his mouth 1 Reg. 22.22 If it please the courteous Reader to goe along with me in the Examen of it he shall finde him no better in the midst so he shall have him by Gods grace compleatly like to himselfe in Principio Medio Fine 5. The Title or Inscription of his Book is A coole Conference The Author might have said A very hot and coole Conference for it is so hot for the one partie that ye may esteeme it a burning coale or fire of zeale for it howsoever without knowledge igneus est illi vigor terrestris origo But for the other it is so coole yea so cold in its behalfe that he may be judged to be ex frigidis maleficiatis or this his discourse to be dropped from Diacaldius Driswerus Nosedropensis who wrote de frigidis meteor is Nive Glacie Grandine Neither can it ascend to the supreme Region of the Ayre or produce any effect upon great spirits Nec faciles motus mens generosacapit If it work at all it must bee in the lowest Region thereof and upon very weake braines who will not hearken unto the truth But not to insist upon the Title of the Booke I come to the Booke it selfe In the first page because the Scotch Commissioners say We are neither so ignorant nor so arrogant as to ascribe to the Church of Scotland such absolute puruy and perfection as hath not need or cannot admit of further Reformation Ans I am assured that there is no man that professes Christianitie that can finde fault with this humble and most modest expression and yet this well-willing Pamphleter sets himselfe to jeere at it as a golden peace signifying-speech as if dropped from the mouth of some Chrysostome or conceived by some Ireneus But it is no new thing that men of golden and peaceable spirits such as Chrysostome and Ireneus should meet with enemies such as theirs were for Chrysostome had adversaries who had ferreum os aeneam frontem plumbeum cerebrum and Ireneus had his who were every whit as busily cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he could be cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Upon this he groundeth a latitude of Religion as I beleeve greater then that of Noahs Arke to receive all sorts of cleane and unclean beasts but we desire to know of what latitude he would have it if it shall receive Brownists Anabaptists and the Independenters of New England who interesse all the people yea women too to judge in matters of Religion and in all Ecclesiasticall Censures whatsoever 3. Under condition of his latitude of Noahs Arke or rather of the Regions of the world he assureth us of their Good will acccording to the Covenant wherein they sweare to endeavour the preservation of the reformed Religion in Scotland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government against our common enemies the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches And shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest conjunction and uniformity in Religion Confession of faith and form of Church Government But here we see no latitude nor condition But the Pamphleter to shew his wit and skill and how cunningly he can draw the guilt of perjury upon himselfe has recourse to a Glosse of Orleans and some mentall reservations whereby he strangely tortureth the Covenant against the Text. Hee telleth us that the Covenant onely saith the Reformed Religion in Scotland that is or shall bee and till further Reformation wee will preserve it against our common enemy But never a word in the Covenant of the Reformation of the Religion in Scotland that is or shall be and till further Reformation This is an addition to the Text yea a meere falsification of the Covenant The Covenant speaketh onely of an endeavour of the reformation of Religion in England and Ireland according to the word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches wherof it presupposeth that of Scotland to be one 1. since it sweareth to preserve it Neither could the Covenanters sweare to preserve it if they thought it to bee deformed for that were to sweare to maintaine deformity in Religion c. 2. And this may further be confirmed for endeavour is finis intenti sed non adepti of a thing intended that as yet is not existent but to exist but preservation is of a thing already existent and supposed to be 3. Because it is so expounded in the thanksgiving of the Assembly to the Scots Commissioners for their Booke Neither for all this beleeve wee that the Reformed Churches and namely that of Scotland cannot erre as the Romanists attribute unto their Church But the question is only whether or no they doe erre and wherein if in that that they will not receive the Independent Anarchie and Papalitie into every particular Congregation in permitting their particular Consistory compounded of one Minister and two or three ruling Elders to judge so many hundreds of persons who will not suffer themselves to be judged by any yea not by the whole Christian world If in this or any other thing they erre they professe themselves ready to bee informed and afterwards reformed But because they are fallible and may erre to conclude therefore that in every thing wherein they differ from Independenters Brownists Anabaptists c. they doe erre and so to quit their Religion they are not such fooles for by the same reason we might as well conclude our Brethren should quit their Tenets and come to us P. 2. Apol. Ah deare Brethren Here he calleth us deare and sweet Brethren but this Doctor had need of a Doctor for his palate is so feverish and vitiated that he relishes bitternesse in the sweet expressions of those whom he calleth sweet Brethren and his conceptions are so far disordered that he applieth to the Apologists what the Reformation cleared saith of ignorant and ill-informed people onely and doth not apply that which justly he might have applied to them in the following words viz. the misrepresentations and indirect aspersions of others who doe so commend c. and this distinction appeareth cleerly by those particles mistakings of some and mis-representations of others This well-willer telleth us that wise men are silently intentive expecting disputed positions from the Assembly Ans And why not ye also since in the last disputed Position ye caried away so great glory If good Cato say true Virtutem primam esse puta compescere linguam truly ye had the chiefe of all vertues and that in a most high degree yea in gradu heroico for ye
it is not moved or directed as it is this or that judgement that actually moveth and directeth it to this or that action in effect 7. And if you beleeve that the understanding moveth the will necessarily then in our Regeneration it should suffice that the understanding alone should be renewed for it should necessarily draw the will after it which cannot be since Scripture inculcateth no lesse the renovation of the will o◠Heart than that of the understanding 8. A mans Regeneration should consist in Faith alone without Charity which likewise cannot hold for howsoever a man be justified by Faith alone without Charity yet is he not regenerated by Faith alone without Charity 9. A man being endowed with intellectuall habitudes should not stand in need of Morall vertues to perfect the Will but to be as you call it a morall or rather a good man morally it should suffice to be prudent and so morall vertues should have their seate in the understanding and be nothing else but Sciences opinions or prudences which was the opinion of Socrates universally blamed by all Philosophers 10. And finally howsoever the Will is evermore ruled by some judgment yet that finall judgement that ruleth it or that judicium ultimum and practicè practicum that ruleth humane actions dependeth of the Will as the Philosophers and Schoolemen both hold And so much touching this quarrell which you here begged with your vaine Philosophy so much condemned by S. Paul P. 3 § 1. Wherein say you hath appeared this preposterousnesse toward you whiles the Apologie smiles upon you and sweetly calleth you and Holland by name the more reformed Churches Doe you give them one such a kinde word in all your Reply Answ Here it seemeth that this Well-willer would paction with the Commissioners for an interchange of Commendations but they have already answered that they cannot praise you but so far forth as truth will suffer them p. 2. § 2. Neither doe they deny but the Reformed Churches Discipline may have need of reformation as their faith that is still growing from faith to faith but from thence it followeth no more that it is erronious then that their faith is so And here it is to be noted how closely this originall sinne in arguing evermore à Posse ad Esse sticketh to this as to all other Independenters bones Let him shew wherein either the Scots or other Orthodox Churches need Reformation Let him prove that their Government is but a contrived Episcopacie that it is such as maketh all Reformed Churches unworthy of Independenters communion that their owne Churches are endowed with such a Seraphicall perfection and ours so corrupt that they dare no more communicate with us then the Pharises thought they could doe with the people item that there is no subordination in Ecclesiasticall Judicatories That men are not Church members before they be admitted by a Church Covenant distinct from the Covenant of Grace If that he can doe this it will be more to the purpose then all these ridiculous exclamations and complaints We desire arguments and no compliments P. 3. S. 2. Not to make c. This is very dangerous and may breed if it have not already as many Sects of Epheticts Scepticts Aporeticts and Pyrrhoniens amongst you as were in former times amongst the Philosophers no lesse destructive of all faith and setled Ecclesiasticall lawes then theirs were of all Sciences and therefore both so justly branded by the Apostle 1 Tim. 3.7 There is one thing more that maketh the Apologists more confident of their candor in that their Apologie received so great an Approbation from so pious and learned a man c. Answ How confident the Commissioners may be of their candor and ye should be of yours it were better to heare it of the Assembly then of you since it is more to be believed in this cause then ye in judging of your selves And as for that Approbation it was but from one man 2. It was not approved by the whole Assembly as was that of the Reformation cleared which was approved by that same very learned man also 3. And he by that very approbation did solemnly condemne your Apologeticall Narration 4. Neither approved he the substance but some circumstances of your Apologie viz. its modestie c. wherein he might be very easily deceived Item your Communicablenesse hoping better of you than appearingly he will find and compatiblenesse with Magistracy which hitherto is not fully proved 5. Whether he approved all that ye presented to him at first in your Booke your selves know best if not we have not as yet your opinion till according to exigence of time c. you give the world a second edition of it and then ye may tell us newes of your candor 6. Neither could he judge of your candor since he could no way judge of your heart consequētly whether your writ was consonāt to your words and your words to your heart Besides all this in that Approbation he declareth his aversion from yours and inclination towards the Presbyterian Government So as this mans braine seemeth of a very strange temper in citing for him that which is so directly against him As on the other side though the Assembly voted you thankes yet was it only for the Bookes you gave them not for the Reply as it was expressed to that effect in the Vote if observation faile not Answ This cannot but be most untrue 1. for the Assembly voted them no thankes for the books till all the Members thereof had read considered the same were extreamely well satisfied with the contents thereof 2. He would make this grave Assembly very ridiculous to say no more if it had nothing else to doe but to imploy so much time in voting thankes for so small a matter viz. for a two-penny book 3. If it be so wherefore voted it not thankes for the Apologeticall Narration which was a great deale bigger and sold 6d 4. Here according to your judgement it cannot escape the blame of great ingratitude towards the Apologizers whereof yee will doe well to admonish it 5. For feare your observation faile you I pray you looke the Act and afterwards you cannot if you have any candor but in imitation of S. Austin disabuse the world by some booke of Retractations which here you abuse by this your false observation And thus far I came with my reasons grounded upon some generall but very certaine relations concerning the Assemblies speech in giving thankes to the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland for their Reply to the Apologeticall Narration but since this my Book hath been ended upon more particular information I adde these following reasons 8. The Assembly in thanking them for it calleth it a very learned and pious piece which is not a praise of two sheets of paper and a little inke but also of the matter it containeth 9. It was there said that it is very usefull for this time when
they come to maturitie Yet as if in revenge you ding the words of Separation and Brownists against the Apologists as if you had forgotten or diâ— intend to misapply what you had said in the next line afore quoted out of Hierome Answ Te frustra Augurium vani docuere parentes Sir you are no good Diviner for it is not the Apologists but the Brownists whom they call the Separation as appeareth most expresly by their own words The Seperation may be well allowed to be called Brownists This therefore is but a meere calumny that ye pin upon them to the end that thereupon ye may bewaile and lament your condition and great oppression before the people which take your words upon credit but the more to blame a great deale you are that so ordinarily deceive their easie credulitie And truly if ye could quit this kinde of reasoning the rest of the matter you stuffe your Booke with would be found very weake And yet I must say of my selfe what elsewhere I have ever said that ye are really Separatists since ye separate your selves from the Sacramentall communion of all other Orthodox Churches esteeming them unworthy of your Communion So by this time any one may see they want not memory in what they say but you judgement to understand them or honestie at least to relate faithfully what they say Having so dealt with them for want of some other Encomiast he setteth forth the praises of his own vertues viz. his great patience and mercy towards them Were it not for patience nay that would hardly doe it were it not for reverence of you and your Nation a home answer would be shaped to such a mishapen misprision But to love is to live Answ 1. Your patience Sir is very weak yea scarcely in gradu continentiae since it can hardly so command your choler and desire of revenge against a pretended and so imaginarie an offence 2. So surely must be your other vertues and consequently your Reverence for there is a necessary connexion betwixt them all at least in gradu temperantiae under the which they cannot absolutely have the name of vertues 3. Reverence is a vertue whereby we give honour to vertuous persons and feare to offend them because of their vertues merits or dignitie If so I pray what Reverence is it so to calumniate them as you have done 4. Or if they be such as you have represented them to be then can they not be the object of Reverence and so this your Reverence is no reall vertue 5. As for the Reverence ye carry to our Nation I will but put you in minde of the good esteeme you have of it as being very windy and unluckie for English men Your words are Who can hinder the winds if they blow and bring black weather out of the North or West If it be such it cannot be thought worthy of any Reverence so this you say here cannot be said but in derision of it unlesse you be content to give a lye to your selfe But what ever be your judgement of your own Nation or of ours We thank God that they have such esteeme one of another that you cannot much further or hinder it As for my selfe what Erasmus Roterodamus saith of his Holland that I may apply to our Scotland Terra mihi semper celebranda veneranda ut cui vitae hujus initia debeam atque utinam illi nos tam possimus honestamento vicissâ—m esse quam illa nobis non est poenitenda Our Country Sir is an honour to us both I pray God none of us be a dishonour to our Countrey And as for you I may say that when your Countrey and the Church of God therein as many of your Countrey-men very good Christians and Patriots say had most need of you ye left it and neglected it and at this present when it standeth in no need at all of you ye returne againe unsent for to vexe the Church of God and to hinder Reformation in it 6. I answer in matters of so high importance so holy men as ye pretend to be should make no distinction of persons nor distinguish betwixt the Greek and the Schythian all should be to you one in Christ To love indeed is to live if your love be such as it should be but sometimes amantes sunt amentes and their love is rather a dreame then reall when they dote more upon their owne fancies more then upon truth Credimus an qui amant â—n qui sibi somnia fingunt He addeth that we must not set our houses on fire to rost our own egges Answ Who doth it now in matter of Religion but the Independenters Vestrorum causa malorum vos estis P. 8. § 1. We are glad that as ye disavow the rest so ye do this that ye intended not to touch the Church of Scotland in saying that ye had no Commonwealths to reare Only this we say that if ye say true that then it was impertinently put in And as ye say it might better bee understood of those of New England who had the Kings Patent for what they did in Policy as Gods Word for Church Government Onely here I observe that you acknowledge the King and his Patent onely in Policy and Gods Word onely in Church government Now I pray then what more give ye to the Civill Magistrate then other Reformed Churches in the point of Church Government And as for Policy no Reformed Churches ever medled with it that I know of P. 8. § 3. If ye thought it not a blessing of God or some good worthy of thanksgiving not to bee engaged by education or other wayes to any other of the Reformed Churches This discourse must be very impertinent in bringing this for a reason that your Discipline is good or better then that of all other Reformed Churches for afterwards yee bring your selves in as spectators of all Churches and Disciplines being of none your selves but in abstractione pracisionis Neither say the Commissioners absolutely that the Apologists were left to their owne private thoughts to bee moved by but ex hypothesi that they were not engaged to other Churches and truly no reasonable man can thinke but they were so since they say that in looking upon all Governments they were simple spectators so that this Doctor for this extravagant sense so repugnant to the text may be thought to have beene Graduate at Orleans And since this Well-willer his profession is to live to love the Commissioners I shall onely note by the way what a rare and curious expression he has found out to declare it by viz. that they are men of a better spirit then the venemous Spider of envy They are bound to thanke you Mr. Doctor of well-willing for this pretty complement ye passe upon them P. 9. § 3. As in all the rest of his Booke so here he goeth very cunningly to worke evermore omitting what is most materiall in the Commissioners Booke Hee
answereth not a word to the number of Church Officers or to their justification against the aspersions laid upon them for Lay Elders or their accusation against the Independents because of their Laymen Preachers and Prophets c. All this he passeth over by a Doctorall priviledge hic ubique terrarum tacendi Onely he scratcheth at the proofe they bring for Presbyteries Classes and Synods but refuteth it not no more then hee doth the Arguments brought by Master Rhetherford Guelaspe and others taken from Gods Attributes as 1. from his Goodnesse 2. Wisedome 3. Justice 4. Providence 5. from the nature of the Church c. Item from the Law of Nature 6. from sundry inconveniences 7. From the order established in the Church of the Jewes 8. From the practice of the Church in the times of the Apostles 9. From Christs institution in the New Testament 10. From parity of reason or proportion betwixt a Parishionall Session or Consistory and six or seven persons in the reall Church thereof and a combined Presbytery as ye call it and every one of the Churches peradventure two or three or ten thousand Parishionall Consistories subject thereunto 11. From the ends of the Church 12. her Conservation Peace c. whereof ye may happily heare more within a few dayes In the meane time I pray you answer to what is written and not to clude such arguments with tales at Assizes Wooll-packes Cannon-shot Bullets Batteries and termes of military Discipline wherewith we are not so well acquainted P. 10. § 3. Here it seemeth that this Doctor would excuse the Apologizers in saying that they give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of the Presbytertall gevernment will suffer them to yeeld As if it were rather said by way of retaliation and in anger then in truth because as he saith the peace-plea calleth them Independents If it be so 1. their passion is worthy of the others compassion 2. But this should not have made them to offend all the Reformed Churches and especially their Benefactors in the Netherlands which are all Presbyterians 3. All comparisons are also odious especially amongst men well bred 4. And yet howsoever they hate the name yet they love dearely the thing signified by the name and will depend of no Ecclesiasticall Judicatory yea as the Author of the Observations and Annotations sheweth clearly not upon all the Churches of the world and yet will that their Congregations depend of themselves who yet will depend upon no men in spirituall power or authority But the Doctor saith If upon a grosse errour of another Church they viz. Independent Churches dare exercise only a non communion with it then there is more left for the Magistrate to doe then when you have excommunicated it Answ In excommunicating a private person or a particular Church when it can be done with lesse hurt to the Church then is the good included therein it leaveth all to be done by the Magistrate that God has ordained him to doe viz. in politicall government Non auferet mortalia quiregna dat coelestia Neither requireth the godly Magistrate our King or this Parliament any more but ye are importune who will give him more then he requireth of you or then either God or the Magistrate hath commanded you The French say of such men Il est valet du Diable ilfait plus que commandement I will not here insist upon your impertinency in denying the name of excommunication to non communion and that great pride in not submitting the judgement of five or six some times idle yea oftentimes wicked felllowes to the judgement of all the Divines and Churches of the world in case they should dogmatise and sustein the most damnable heresies of the world and yet unto their judgement however so contemptible a number ye will submit the judgement of all their Congregation amounting peradventure to the number of many hundreds it may be better men then themselves Neither is it enough to leave it to the Civill Magistrate for his power is not spirituall God hath given an intrinsecall power to the Church sufficient for its spirituall end the Civill Magistrate may be a Pagan an Antichristian Christian an externall Christian but an inward enemy to the Church he may be negligent in his charge c. and is it credible that in such cases God hath instituted no Discipline or Government to take order with offenders But of this I need not to say any thing this evasion being so well so evidently and briefly refuted in the Commissioners own words which I pray the Reader to consider p. 21.22 if it please the Reader he may have sundry reasons against this opinion in the considerations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration It is an untruth also that the Doctor presupposeth here viz. that a Classicall Presbyterie is made up of many Ministers and Lay men in the Kingdome of Scotland or among other Protestants And false againe that their Assemblies are made up of persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly civill or that they there rule persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly Civill we say that there can be no such persons for howsoever one person may have one charge Ecclesiasticall and another secular or Civill yet is he not therefore a mixt person neither be these severall charges mixt but distinguish'd in him fince of the two there resu'teth not any third Charge compounded of both as in mixtions but he exercises them both distinctly and severally in such a fashion that the one never concurreth to the function and operation of the other By the same reason it should follow that the divers faculties of the soule as the understanding expulsive facultie in a man should be mixt together since they be both in one soule as the most part of Philosophers hold When a States-man sitteth as a member of an Ecclesiasticall Assembly he sitteth no wayes as a States-man but as a Church-man neither judgeth he a State-man or secular person in qualitie of a States-man or of a secular person but in qualitie of a member of the Church So they judge not of civill matters formally as they are subject to the Civill Magistrates authority but materially in so far as they are subject to a spirituall formality or conduce to a spirituall end under the which notion they belong not ordinarily to the Civill Magistrate or per se intrinscce but per accidens extrinsece as all Orthodox Divines of the Reformed Churches do teach But this is not all for sundry of the Independents have told us that the Civill Magistrate according to Gods Word cannot punish any man for matters of Religion how abominable soever his opinions be P. 11. and 12. the Doctor will not answer because he hath not the Books at hand and so shifts over the argument What he saith of Aerius who held out against Bishops as our Reformed Churches doe is not to the purpose No more is this That Councells may erre
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS