Calvin Beza or any of our own Authors if you do not meet some Comedies or Romances If you read our modern Writers you shall find their Books to be stuft with Arguments stolen from Strapleton Peron Bellarmin and other Popish Doctors whereas they ought to take their Doctrine from Luther Calvin and our other first Reformers Apostles raised by Gods Heavenly Spirit Oracles by whose Mouths and Pens he delivered the pure and Orthodox Doctrine of the Gospel Heavenly Fountains from which we ought to drink the Doctrine of the Reformation Therefore I have made a particular Study for the Comfort of my Reader not to profane this Treatise with any quotation of any Popish Writers none but our own Doctors Secondly my Reader will be pleased with this Treatise because I do not oblige him to believe the Contents of it if he mislikes any Doctrine couched in this Book let him not believe it what I pretend is to maintain his Liberty for to believe or not believe what he pleases and that none can say black is his Eye for believing whatever he judges to be the Sence of Scripture let all others think of it what they will for our Rule of Faith as I will prove being Scripture as each Person understands it who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you understand Scripture to say some Doctrines there are in this Book delivered by Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others which our Church of England and some others do call Blasphemies and scandalous Tenets and their irreverence and arrogance it run so far as to condemn those Blessed Men for teaching such Tenets and say that they swerved from the Truth and had their frailties insomuch that many of us are ashamed to own those great Men to have been our Reformers and Leaders This is an impiety altogether insupportable it cannot be suffered with Patience that such Apostolical Men who were undeniably our first Masters of the Reformation should be so vilified and abused Therefore I do prove that there 's no Doctrine delivered by them but is to be esteemed and called the Doctrine of the Reformation And can be according to the Principles of the Reformed Church believed and taught by any Reformed Child For what is our Rule of Faith in the Reformation but Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment understands it Consequently what is the Doctrine of the Reformation but what any Person of sound Judgment understands to be of Scripture Whatever Doctrine therefore Luther Calvin or others judged to be of Scripture How can you deny it to be the Doctrine of the Reformation or blame them for teaching and believing it If you do not like The most you can in Justice do is not to believe it But you cannot justly say it 's not the Doctrine of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as understood by Persons of good Judgment Nor can you in Justice blame them or any other for believing it if they like it For must not we believe what we judge in our Consciences to be the Doctrine of Scripture Lastly my Reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this Treatise As much as we are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our Modern Writers whose aim and scope in the Books they give out seem to be nothing else but to say somewhat whereby they may be thought to be no Papists and nothing is less found in their Writings than the pure and Orthodox Doctrine of the Reformation And what is to be bemoaned that you 'll hardly see in the Houses or Hands of the Flock the Works of Luther Calvin or our other first Reformers they are hid from us to keep us in ignorance of the true Reformed Doctrine and we see but Bramhall Tillotson Taylor Stillingfleet Thorndike and such others whose Doctrine is neither Popery nor of the Reformation but a new compound of both they do so mangle the Questions controverted with their Scholastical subtilities and distinctions as if they were ashamed to own openly our Tenets and did endeavour to get the Opinion of moderate sober Men with the Papists by drawing as near as their Interest can permit them to their Doctrine Ask them if we be obliged to believe the Doctrine and Sense of Scripture delivered by a general Council Our first Reformers resolved roundly that we are not Nay Luther says expresly we are bound to gainsay and work against the Decrees of any Council But our modern Doctors answer with a pretty Distinction There 's a a civil obligation quoth one but no Obligation in Conscience There 's an obligation in Conscience says another provided you do not believe they are infallible You may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively says another but not subjectively They are infallible in Fundamental Points says another but not in inferior Truths Another will come yet and say they are absolutely infallible in all Articles and thus by little and little the Papists gain Ground against us and the lustre of our Reformation is clouded by the Cowardliness or Insincerity or Hypocrisie of our modern Teachers 1 Kings 18. How long halt ye between two Opinions If the Lord be God follow him But if Baal then follow him Luther Calvin Beza and our other first Reformers were raised by God to teach us the purity of the Gospel Let us not be ashamed to follow their Doctrine To speak Preach and Believe as they did Therefore I do propose the Doctrine in this Treatise in its native Colours that if you like it you may believe it and if any be so bold as to say you believe false or scandalous Doctrine you must answer It 's the Doctrine of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as understood by Persons of Judgment and the greatest Oracles we had And if you do not like it you may deny it but beware never to blame or check any other for believing it This is the Holy Liberty of the GOSPEL and of our Primitive REFORMATION First DIALOGUE ISMAEL I have read your Preface and Principles and methinks you drive to establish a new Religion for that unlimited Liberty which you assert for to believe or not believe whatever we please with a safe Conscience is not allowed by any of our Reformed Congregations and it were to be wish'd you should rather stick to some one of the Congregations now Established than to erect a new one for we have but too many already Isaac The Lord forbid I should think or speak otherwise than as becometh a true Child of the Reformation If you will oblige me to believe Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church the like I say of any other Congregation and deny the Tenets of all others what difference betwixt me and a Papist in the Election of my Religion For the Papists Religion must be no other but Scripture as Interpreted by the Pope and Councils my Religion must be Scripture as interpreted by the
could not be Christ the Son of God because he wanted providence and upon this reflection he renounced Christ and became a Jew And no man can say but that he acted and behaved himself like a true Child of the Reformation in so doing for he followed Scripture as he understood it and as he was a true Reformed Child in forsaking Popery because he understood by Scripture that the Reformation was better so since he understood by reading Scripture more that Judaism was better than the Reformation he acted like a good Reformed in chusing that which he understood by Scripture to be the best this is the Reformations Rule of Faith do you if you please as he did and you 'll be as good a Reformed as he And if you chuse to believe that there is a Church establisht on earth by Christ you must beware never to believe or perswade your self that we are bound to believe her Doctrin or live in her if you do not judge by Scripture that she teaches the Doctrin of Christ This is the most essential point of Popery an obligation of submitting our judgments to the Church and believing her Doctrin without any more examining and in this the Church of England is much like the Popish Church which by Acts of Parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her Doctrin Rites and Ceremonies No God has given us Scripture for our Rule of Faith as we forsook the Popish Church because we discovered by Scripture her many Errours in Doctrin so we are not bound to believe the Doctrin of any other Church but as we find by Scripture her Doctrin is true Do and speak as Luther to 1. Edit Jen. in Resolut I will be free and will not submit to the Authority of Councils Popes Church or Vniversity to the contrary I will confidently teach whatever I Judge to be true whether it be Catholick Doctrin or Heretical condemned or approved Ismael Must I not believe that the Doctrin of Jesus Christ delivered to his Apostles and the Church is true Doctrin Isaac The Reformation teaches it is and you may safely believe it You may as safely believe it is not in the Principles of the Reformation because it teaches that Christ err'd in Doctrin and Manners Vere Pharisaei erant viri valde boni says Luther and Christus minime debuit eos taxare and Calvin says it 's a folly to think he was not ignorant in many things lastly David Georgius a Man of God and of a holy life says Osiander writes If the Doctrin of Christ and his Apostles had been true and perfect the Church which they planted had continued but now it is manifest that Antichrist has subverted it as it 's manifest in Papacy therefore it was false and imperfect See these words quoted in the History of David George Printed by the Divines of Basil at Antwerp Anno. 1568 both Doctrines are Scripture as interpreted by Men of sound Judgment a Child of the Reformation may believe which he will. Ismael Is it not the Doctrin of the Reformation that the Apostles were infallible in their Doctrin much more must we believe that Jesus Christ was so Isaac Yes it is you may believe it and it 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that they were not infallible neither in their written or unwritten Doctrin so many of our most renowned Doctors speak and whatever any Men of sound Judgment Judge to be true by Scripture is the Doctrin of the Reformation Zuinglius one of the greatest Oracles of our Church says It 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible Authority in the Gospels or Epistles of the Apostles Beza not inferiour to Zuinglius blotted out of St. John the History of the Woman Adulteress Judging it a fable Clebitius affirms that Luke's relation of Christ's passion is not true because it does not agree with that of Matthew and Mark and more credit is to be to two than to one Calvin says Peter consented to and added to the Schism of the Church to the overthrow of Christian liberty and Christ's Grace Whitaker says It 's evident that after the Descent of the Holy Gospel the whole Church even the Apostles erred and Peter erred in Doctrin and manners Luther says Peter lived and taught extra Verbum Dei and Brentius his Disciple say that Peter and Barnabas together with the Church of Jerusalem erred after receiving the Holy Ghost If our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it undoubtedly this must be the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be believed by any Reformed since it's Scripture interpreted by such renowned men Ismael This is most wicked Doctrin I 'll never believe it Isaac If you think by Scripture it 's wicked do not follow your Rule of Faith Scripture as you understand it but if any other understands by Scripture as those Authors did that the Doctrin is good give him leave to believe it he 'll but follow his Rule of Faith Scripture as he understands it Ismael I would gladly know which are the true Canonical Books of Scripture Isaac The Reformation teaches and you may believe with the Church of England that St. Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews those of James and Jude the 2. of St. Peter the 2. and 3. of St. John are true Canonical Scripture the Reformation also teaches they are not Canonical because Lutherans deny them believe which you like best But if you 'll live in peace and out of all strife with Protestants Lutherans and others who dispute if this or that be Canonical Scripture your readiest and speediest way will be to say there 's no true Canonical Scripture Scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious Books if you say this is not the Doctrin of the Reformation read Hossias de expresse Verbo Dei lib. de Har. where he relates this to be the Doctrin of the Swinfeldians as good Reformers as the best of us they say that we are not to regard any Instruction from Man or Book but Gods immediate inspiration which speaks secretly to our hearts for which they alledge those comfortable words of the Prophet I will hear what my Lord my God speaks in me for say they the Book which we call Scripture is a Creature and we must not seek for light and instruction from any Creature but from God the Father of Lights This is Scripture as interpreted by Men of sound Judgment any Child of the Reformation may believe it Ismael I thought to settle my mind in my choice of some Religion and you go the way to beat me from all for if you renverse the Authority of Scripture what warrant shall we have for any Religion God forbid the Reformation should deny the true Canon or the infallible truth of Scripture and let all the world say the contrary I will constantly aver and believe it's Gods infallible word Isaac How
Lutheran Church and no other my Judgment and Conscience therefore is as much constrained as that of the Papist and our Separation from Popery will come to be but an Exchange of one Slavery for another in that our Judgments and Counsciences were Slaves to the Pope and Councils in this we are Slaves to the Lutheran Church We became a Reformation by shaking off the Yoke of Popery from our Judgments and leaving them free for to believe Scripture as with the assistance of Gods Spirit each one best understands it and if we will continue a Reformation we must not submit again our Judgments to any other but retain that blessed Liberty we recovered for to believe the Tenets of any Congregation I confess this Liberty is not allowed by any one particular Congregation as you observe out you must also grant me That it 's allowed and taken by the whole Body of the Reformation for in this whole Body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. One Congregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a Man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not deny therefore any Man has full Liberty for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation Hence it follows and to my Grief I speak it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germany has the true Spirit of the Reformation in doting so much upon their particular Tenets as to think they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking upon them with so passionate Eyes as to censure check and force others to believe them You shall see by this discourse that the true Spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separately taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all People to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have us all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the World as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Net Presbytery esteems it self to be the best of all and would crush Protestancy if it could This then is the Spirit of each particular Congregation a limiting confining Spirit to some particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but look on the whole Body of our Reformation as it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there is a Holy extension of Spirit and Liberty for to be either Lutherans Presbyterians Protestants and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of another but all unanimously agree that the Spirit of the Lord is in the whole Body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a Latitude and Liberty for to Profess divers and opposite Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this Holy Liberty for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true Spirit of our Holy Reformation It 's not therefore to be wish'd as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenet for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregation is profane and Popish No it 's a blessing of the Lord upon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the House of my Father said Christ there are many mansions John 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe Conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow a Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run over all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer For I am not Ignorant that all men apprehended it to be absurd to change and run over so many Religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Jews and a folly to the Gentiles It s therefore the Doctrine of the Reformation that we may with a safe Conscience be to day Protestants to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungary Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians and in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you foully impose upon the Reformation there 's not any Congregation that teaches such a scandalous and absurd Doctrine Isaac By your favour I love the Reformation as the Apple of my Eye and will never yield to any in my Zeal for its Honour and Doctrine I am so far from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to be its Doctrine and it will appear that whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the best and Fundamental Principles of our Reformation and must impiously condemn the practice of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it out that this Doctrine is grounded upon the the Fundamental Principles of our Reformation whereas there is not one Congregation of ours but abhors it Isaac Sir you may well perceive by the tenor of my discourse that I am Piously and Charitably jealous with each particular Congregation and that my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true Spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as will further appear in this discourse It 's uncontestedly true that the Rule of Faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of Heart assisted with the Spirit of the Lord understand it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of Faith to be Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England but as Interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be the Rule of Faith as it is Interpreted by the Presbyterians but as Interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrine of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and whereas all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrine of the Reformation comes to be Scripture as each Congregation and Person of sound Judgment in the Reformation says the Church of England in her 39 Articles Interprets it This being an uncontrouled truth what Man of ever so sound Judgment but may Read to day Scripture as Interpreted by the Lutheran Church and Judge in his Conscience that Interpretation and Doctrine to be true consequently he may with a safe Conscience Profess that Religion Soon after he may meet Calvin's Books and charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses upon Scripture he may Judge in his Conscience he is to be preferr'd before Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits upon Scripture as Interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrine ravishes him with that decency of Ceremonies that Majesty of her Liturgy that Harmony of her Hierarchy he is convinc'd it's better than Calvinism and embraces it Then again
he reads the Works of Arius and convinc'd by the energy of his Arguments and Texts of Scripture produced by him may alter his Judgment and become an Arian Wherein can you say does this Man transgresâ—…against the Doctrine or Principles of the Reformation Does he forsake the Reformation because he forsakes Lutherism for Calvinism No sure for Calvinism is as much of the Reformation as the other Is not Protestancy as much the Doctrine of the Reformation as Presbytery tho' he changes therefore one for the other he still holds the Doctrine of the Reformation Is not the Doctrine of the Reformation Scripture not as Protestants only or Presbyterians only interpret it but as any Congregation or Man of sound Judgment holds it It is therefore evident that according to the Doctrine and Principles of the Reformation he may with a safe Conscience change Religions and be to day of one to morrow of another until he runs all over Point me out any Congregation the obstinate Papists excepted who will dare say I cannot live with a safe Conscience in any other Congregation but in it self all other Congregations will laught at it Why then may not I lawfully forsake any Congregation and pass to another And be in England a Protestant in Germany a Lutheran in Hungary an Antitrinitarian or Socinian Ismael It 's against the grain of Mans reason to believe that we can with a safe Conscience change Religions as you say If you be a Protestant and you Judge it to be the true Religion you are bound to stick to it and never to change it Isaac If I did discourse with a Papist I would not wonder he should say it 's against the grain of Mans reason to believe it lawful but I admire that a Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation he will should be so Ignorant of his Principles as to say a Man cannot change Religions when he pleases Nor do I undertake to prove against the Papist that this is lawful but I undertake to prove it lawful against any Reformed Child or force him to deny the Principles of the Reformation Is it against reason that a Man may read to day Scripture and the Lutherans Interpretation upon it and like it very well and that he should in this case embrace that Religion Is it against the grain of Mans reason that this same Man should next Year afterwards hit upon Calvin's Works upon Scripture and after better consideration think his Doctrine to surpass that of Luther and could not he then being obliged to chuse the best forsake Lutheranism and stick to Calvinism And is it against Mans reason that he in following Years may meet other Books of Arians Socinians c. and do the like Have not we many examples of this in our best and most renowned Reformers Did not Ochinus that great light says B. Bale in whose presence England was happy reading Scripture Judge the Reforformation to be better than Popery and of a Capuchin Fryar became a Reformed after some Years reading Scripture he Judged Judaism to be better than the Reformation and became a Jew Did not Martin Bucer one of our first Reformers of England and Composers of our Liturgy reading Scripture judge Lutheranism to be better than Popery and of a Dominican Fryar became a Lutheran Soon after reading Scripture he judged Zuinglianism to be better than Lutheranism and became a Zuinglian not long after he became a Lutheran again as he Confesses and forsook Lutheranism the second time and returned again to Zuinglianism as Sklusser says b Did not Cranmer one of our first Reformers also of England and Composers of the 39. Articles a Wise and religious Man profess Popery in Henry the VIII's time and Compose a Book in defence of Real Presence then in Edward the VI's time upon better Consideration he professed Zuinglianism and writ a Book against Real Presence then again in Queen Mary's Reign being Sentenc'd to Death he declared for Popery but seeing his Recantation would not preserve his Life he renounced Popery and died a Zuinglian I could tire your Patience in reading and Mind in relating the number of our Prime and most renowned as well first Reformers as Learned Doctors who without any scruple changed several times their Religions nor in the Principles of our Reformation ought they to be blamed For whereas our Rule of Faith is Scripture as with the assistance of Gods Spirit we understand it who doubts but we may to day Judge sincerely Luther's sense of it to be true to morrow we may read with more attention and Judge Arius his sense to be true next day that of Calvin and so of the rest I do not think but that we have in England many Abettors of this Doctrine Alas how many Bishops Deans and rich Parsons do we know and have we known who were zealous Presbyterians and declared Enemies of Protestancy in our Gracious Soveraign's Exile and no sooner was he restored and had Bishopricks and Ecclesiastical Dignities to be given but they became stiff Protestants Observe the difference betwixt the Papists and us if of a Papist you become of any other Congregation the Popish Church Excommunicates you thou art lookt upon as an Heretick and Apostate a stray'd Sheep they will not admit you to their Communion or Liturgy nay could they well avoid you they would never admit you to their Company and why Because they are fondly perswaded their own is the only true Religion and all others to be Synagogues of Satan and if any of us will become a Papist he must first abjure his former Profession But if of a Protestant you should become a Presbyterian a Lutheran Quaker or of any other of our Societies you are never looked upon to be a jot the worse for it we are not a whit scandalized at such changes which we daily see and it is an unspeakable Blessing with what Accord Unity and Charity you may see at our Liturgy and Communion the Protestant Presbyterian Anabaptist Socinian and Hugonot all praising the Lord in one Congregation in our Church none bid out of the Church none Excommunicated no previous abjuration required of their former Tenets and there 's nothing more frequent among us than to go to the Protestant Liturgy in the Morning in the Evening to the Prebyterian especially if our Interest or Convenience requires it Can there be a more convincing Proof that we esteem it all alike what Religion and Tenets we profess Let a Lutheran go to France Alas He will never stick to go to the Hugonots meeting and Service let a Protestant go to Germany he will go as cheerfully to the Lutheran Church as in England to the Protestant Let a Hugonot or Presbyterian go to Hungary or Poland he is welcome to the Antitrinitarians and Socinians and when any of them returns home he will be as before Ismael But can you prove this Doctrine by the Testimony of any of our Synods Did any teach that
most of our Congregations do absolutely deny any Right in our Clergy to those Rents because they are no Clergy Yeâ— none will be so bold as to accuse Henry the VIII of Sacrilege for having taken the Church-living from them for to put them to better use And why should we dare say our King would commit any for depriving our Clergy of those Rents Believe he can lawfully do it or believe he cannot you 'll be still a good Child of the Reformation Believe what you please Ismael This is a ticklish point let 's leave it to the consideration of our wise and prudent Parliament and be pleased to answer to my doubt How can we live in peace and tranquility in Religion if our Rule of Faith be Scripture as each one understands it I remember a discourse started in the House of Lords not many Years ago by his Grace the Duke of Buckingham he desired to know what it was to be a Protestant wherein did Protestancy properly consist The Bishops who were present looked one upon another and whether they feared the difficulty of the Question or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear another speak first they stood silent for a while at last the Ice was broken by one others followed but hardly any two agreed and all that the Duke could gather out of their several answers was That our Rule of Faith was Scripture as each one understood it and Protestancy nothing but Scripture as Interpreted by the Parliament and Church of England Whereupon he concluded We have been these hundred Years very busie for to settle Religion and for ought I perceive we are as unsettled nâ—w as at the beginning And truly he had great reason for Religion and Faith is nothing else but that sense of Scripture which each person of sound Judgment understands and as it 's impossible we should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the Text so it 's impossible we shall ever be settled and agree in Religion Isaac The reason of our unsettlement hitherto and at present is the violent efforts what by Persecutions Acts of Parliaments and other Oppressions what by Invectives Intrigues and Cabals of the Church of Engand to draw all to be Protestants of the Presbyterians to make us deny Episcopacy and of each other Congregation to force us to their respective Tenets And whilst this constraint and severity is used against Mens Consciences it 's in vain to expect peace or settlement in our Reformed Church But let us follow the Rule of Faith let each one believe as in his Conscience he best understands Scripture let us all believe what we please and be permitted so to do and we shall without doubt enjoy perfect Peace and Tranquillity Believe you Figurative Presence if you will let the Lutheran believe his Real Presence if he likes it and let me believe no Presence at all if I judge there 's none why will not you permit me to follow that Rule of Faith which the whole Reformation even the Church of England gives me in her 39 Articles Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it To say we can never have settlement in Religion whilst this arbitrary Interpretation of Scripture is permitted is to speak like a Papist This the Pope and Papists said to our first blessed Reformers and the Popish Church says this day to us That we ought to submit our judgments to the Church and Councils that we ought not to believe what sense we think to be true but what the Pope and Councils propose unto us and if Luther and our other Reformers did not do ill in following their own Sense and Interpretation of Scripture against all the World why do you blame me or any other for following their example Ismael When you speak of our Reformation and Congregations I hear you reckon the Arians Socinians and Antitrinitarians among them sure you do not believe they or such like ancient condemned Hereticks were of the Reformation for we Protestants do believe the Mystery of the Trinity against them and will never own them to be our Brethren Isaac And do not you believe Episcopacy against the Presbyterians some Canonical Books against the Lutherans Supremacy against the Quakers and Infants Baptism against the Anabaptists and yet you own them as your Brethren and Godly Congregations of the Reformation or if you will deny them they will also scorn you and say they are more of the Reformation than you are and why will you not own the Arians c. as your Brethren tho' you believe the Trinity against them You say they are Old condemn'd Hereticks and does this Language become a Child of the Reformed Church By whom were they condemn'd Was it not by the Popish Church which also condemns us and says we are as much Hereticks as they and as we ought not to be so called and judge the Pope and Councils Sentence against us to be bold uncharitable and unjust so we must say of the Arians Pelagians and others condemn'd by them You say Protestants will never own them to be their Brethren God forbid the Protestant Church should be so uncharitable to their fellow Christians and so unjust to themselves B. Morton as I cited in my first Dialogue as learned a Man as the Church of England bred says the Arian Church is a true Church and will say no less of the others But what need we the Testimony of any for what reason so convincingly proves They who walk by one and the same Rule of Faith are of one and the same Religion therefore Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians and Independants do esteem themselves to be of the same Faith and Religion because they all have the same Rule which is Scripture as each Congregation understands it Also notwithstanding the difference and variety of Congregations in Popery they hold all but one Faith as they say because they have all but one Rule of their Belief which is their infallible Pope and Church But it 's evident that those which you call Antient condemn'd Hereticks have one and the same Rule of Faith with our Reformation for ours is Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it without any obligation of holding the Sense of it delivered by Pope Church Councils or any other therefore our first blessed Reformers did not care what Sense of it the Church or Pope did hold when they began to Preach the purity of the Gospel but each of them Interpreted it as he thought sit in the Lord and so purged the Church of many Errours This is the very self same Rule of Faith which Arians Pelagians Nestorians and others peremptorily condemned by Rome as Hereticks did follow and walk by Each of them Read and Interpreted Scripture Preached and Believed what Sense of it they thought to be true tho' they knew it was against the Doctrine of the Church looking on Scripture alone as their Rule of Faith without any regard of the Pope
is to cast dirt upon his Church the honest Quaker will say I am a profane man others perhaps will say I am of no Religion but a Despiser of all and our Congregations are so uncharitable that likely none will accept of me because I say all Religions are very good a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his Neighbours and that each one must have all the World to be naught but himself This then is my Religion To suffer Persecution for Justice and Truth to render good for evil to bless those who curse me and speak well of all Congregations whilst they speak all evil against me reflect well upon what I discoursed hitherto and you will find I am as great a Lover of the Reformation as they who may think me it's Enemy and read my following discourse and you will find I love Popery as well as the Reformation The Spirit of God makes no exceptions of Persons Ismael You promised to prove by the principles of the Reformation that we may believe all the Tenets of Popery and remain still of the Reformation how can this be Isaac You remember I excepted one Principle of Popery wherein you must necessarily dissent from them and if you deny this one Principle you may believe all their other Tenets as well as the Pope and be as good a Child of the Reformation as Luther Ismael What Principle is this which you seem to make the only destinctive sign of a Reformed from a Papist Isaac Listen a while a Papist is not a Papist because he believes Purgatory Transubstantiation Indulgences and the rest of Popish Tenets but because he believes them upon the Testimony of the Pope and Church because they assure him they are revealed Truths If a Papist did say I believe these Tenets because I my self do judge by Scripture that they are revealed and not because the Pope and Church say they are he would be no Papist The Papist believes the Mystery of the Trinity the Incarnation and Passion of Christ the Protestant believes the same Mysteries yet the one is a Papist and no Protestant the other is a Protestant and no Papist And why because the Papist believes them upon the Testimony of the Pope and Church the Protestant believes them upon the Testimony of Gods written Word Believe then whatever you please of Popery provided you believe it because you judge by Scripture it 's true and not because the Pope or the Church says it you 'll never be a Papist but a perfect Reformed Ismael If this discourse be solid you may hedge in all the Articles of Popery into our Reformation Isaac If you peruse the works of our Reformed Doctors you 'll hardly find any Article of Popery but has been judged by many or some of our best Reformed Doctors to be the true Doctrine of Scripture and whereas any Doctrin which any Person of sound Judgment understands by Scripture to be the true may be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation it follows that hardly is there any Article of Popery for which we see so many persecutions against Subjects and such troubles in our Parliaments but is truly the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Shew me some Examples of this Isaac The Veneration of Relicks and Saints dead Bones is generally believed by us to be meer Popery and Superstition therefore we made no store of Luther and Calvins Bones tho we know them to be as great Saints as any in the Popish Church but Veneration of Relicks and Saints Bones is the Doctrin of our Reformation for whatever is set down and commended by our Common-Prayer-Book must be undoubtedly esteemed our Reformed Doctrin and Practice and our Common-Prayer-Book aprinted since our Kings happy Restauration in it's Kalendar sets down a day to the Translation of S. Edward King of Saxons Body in the month of June and dedicates another to the Translation of the Bodies of St. Martin and Swithin in the month of July The Veneration and use of the sign of the Cross is flat Popery in the Judgment of all our Congregations yet any Reformed Child may laudably and piously use it whereas our Common-Prayer Book in the Administration of Baptism Commands the Minister to use it saying We sign him with the sign of the Cross in token that hereafter he shall not be ashamed to confess the Faith of Christ crucified and Manfully to fight under his Bannar against Sin the World and the Devil And in our Kalender printed since his Majesties Restauration it 's called the Holy Cross Our Congregations generally believe it 's Popery to keep Holy-days except the Sabbath day and Saints days to fast in Lent Vigils commanded Ember-days and Fridays and all this is recommended to us in our Common-Payer Book and the Minister is commanded in the Administration of the Lords Supper to publish the Holy-days of the week and exhort us to Fast and surely he is not commanded to teach or exhort us to any thing but to the Doctrin of the Reformation it 's true the Students of our Colledges of Oxford and Cambridge are much troubled with scruples in this point these Pauperes de Lugduno are compelled to fast all Fridays throughout the year and it 's not hunger that makes them complain but tenderness of Conscience because they fear it's Popery It 's a Popish errour we say to believe that Pennance or our penal works of Fasting Alms-deeds or corporal Austerities can avail and help for the remission of our sins and satisfying Gods Justice No we say penal works serve for nothing all is done by Repentance that 's to say by sorrow of heart for having offended God. This is the Doctrin of Danaeus Willit Junius and Calvin who says Francis Dominick Bernard Antony and the rest of Popish Monks and Fryers are in Hell for their Austerities and penal works for all that you may very well believe and it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that Pennance and penal works do avail for the remission of our sin and are very profitable to the Soul for our Common-Prayer Book in the Commination against sinners says thus In the Primitive Church there was a Godly Discipline that at the beginning of Lent such as were notorious sinners were put to open Pennance and punish'd in this World that their Souls may be saved in the day of the Lord. And our Common-Prayer Books wishes that this Discipline were restored again and surely it does not wish that Popery were restored therefore it 's no Popery to say that Pennance or Penal works do satisfie for our sins in this World and avail to save us in the other Ismael I know many of our Congregation mislike much our Common-Prayer Book for these Popish-Tenets but what do you say of the grand errours of Popery can a man be a true Child of the Reformation and yet believe the Popes Supremacy deny the Kings Supremacy believe Transubstantiation and Communion in one kind are these Tenets
Mary why did not you put in also Elizabeth Mother of the great Baptist and the Angel Gabriel as well as Michael Ismael I know not indeed Isaac Nor do I know if it be not because that Elizabeth and Gabriel made the Popish Ave Maria as Scripture relates but can you tell as the Church of England put in your Kalender St. George St. Andrew and St. David Patrons of England Scotland and Wales why did not she put in St. Patrick Patron of Ireland Ismael I can't tell What may be the reason think you Isaac I know not if it be not that he forfeited his place for his Purgatory for tho the others were as deep in Popery as he if we believe the Papists but the Parliament pass'd an Act of Indemnity for England Scotland and Wales after the Kings return to his Kingdoms and thereby the sin of Popery was forgiven to their Patrons and no Act of Indemnity was past for Ireland whereby Patrick is still guilty if it be not that the Seven Champions of Christendom tell us St. Patrick was St. George his Footman and it was not thought good manners to put him in the same rank with his Master Ismael For shame if not for pitty forbear I cannot endure to fully Sacred things with profane Ralleries the Kalender is a holy institution of the Church and ought to be reverenc'd Isaac And so is Episcopacy Surplices Bells Organs and Corner Caps yet I hope you will give Presbyterians Anabaptists Quakers c. leave to laugh at them and be still as good Children of the Reformation as you if you esteem them to be Sacred and Holy reverence and honour them I commend you for it if others Judge otherwise let them follow their humour each one as he fancies says the Fellow kissing his Com this is the holy Liberty of the Reformation Scripture as each one understands it Ismael Let us return to our last discourse how is it possible that those Tenets of Popery â—…ould be the Doctrin of the Reformation whereâ—â— we see the Church of England so severely perâ—â—ecute the Professors of them Isaac Do you think a Doctrin is not of the Reformation because it 's denyed by the Church of England or because she persecutes the Proâ—essors of it do not they persecute all Non-conforâ—ists as well as Popery persecution is no proof of a Doctrin to be bad it 's but the effect of a blind zeal armed with power for to know cerâ—ainly if a Doctrin be of the Reformation you must try it by our Test or Rule of Faith which is the written Word of God and whatever any man of sound Judgment of a sincere and humble heart judges to be contained in Scripture or â—n indubitable consequence out of it that man may believe that Doctrin let all others Judge of it as they list and by so believing will be a true Child of the Reformation wherefore since that the Church of France that of England in Edward the VI 's time Luther Melancthon Grotius and the other Authors I quoted do Judge Transubstantiation Popes Supremacy and Communion in one kind to be the Doctrin of Scripture we must call it the Doctrin of the Reformation and if you judge as they did you may believe the Doctrin and be still of the Reformation as well as they Ismael Can you shew me any other Tenet of Popery which you can call the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac Alas you can hardly shew me any Tenet of Popery but what is it's Doctrin what Doctrin more Popish than that of Confession and Absolution from sins yet it 's as truly the Doctrin of the Reformation as figurative Presence for not only Lobechius Altamerus Sacerius and Melancthon says it 's a Sacrament but the Church of England in our Common-Prayer Book declares that Priests have not only the power of declaring their sins to be forgiven to the Penitents but also the power of forgiving them and sets down the form of Absolution which the Minister is to use Our Lord Jesus Christ who left power to the Church to absolve all sinners which truly repent of his mercy forgive thee and thine offences and I by his Authority committed unto me do absolve thee from all thy sins The Minister of the Diocess of of Lincoln in their Survey of the Book of Common Prayers checkt this Doctrine as Popery and petitioned to have it blotted out but could not prevail whereby we are given to understand it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation It 's Popery we say to call extream Uuction Confirmation and Holy Order of Priest-hood Sacraments and who can justly deny all this to be the Doctrine of the Re-formation for Calvin says I confess the Disciples of Christ did use Exâ—ream Vnction as a Sacrament I am not says he of the opinion of those who judge it was only a Meâ—â—cine for corporal diseases Calvin also and with him our Common Prayer Book and all our Divines say a Sacrament is nothing else but a Visible sign of the invisible Grace we receive by â—t and they say with Pouel Hooker and others that this definition fits exactly Confirmation wherefore the Ministers of the Diocess of Lincoln checkt the Common Prayer Book for giving the Definition of a Sacrament to Confirmation Melancthon Bilsom Hooker and Calvin expresly teach that the Order of Priesthood is a Sacrament And when men of so eminent Judgment of our Reformation teach this to be the Doctrine of Scripture who doubts but that it is of the Reformation Ismael By this you destroy the Doctrine of the Reformation of two Sacraments only Is Destroy it God forbid Because the Church of England says there are but two Sacraments I say it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation there are but two and because so many eminent Men judge by Scripture there are more I say it 's the Doctrin of the Reformation there are more that 's to say six Baptism Confirmation Eucharist Pennance Extream Unction and Holy Order and very likely our Bishops and Ministers for their Wives sake will not stick to grant that Matrimony also is a Sacrament Ismael But can you say that Prayers to Saints and Images Prayer for the dead and Purgatory are not meer Popery and in no wise the the Doctrine of Reformation Isaac Without doubt those Tenets are Popery but all the World knows the Lutherans use Images in their Churches and pray before them and the Holy Synod of Charenton has declared as was said in our first Dialogue that the Lutherans have nothing of Superstition or Idolatry in their manner of Divine Worship this is also the Doctrine of Jacobus Andreas Brachmanus Kemnitius Luther and Brentius quoted by Beza and why should not a Doctrine Judged by such eminent Men to be of Scripture be called the Doctrin of the Reformation Prayers for the dead and Purgatory is Popery confessedly but alas it is taught expresly
by Vrbans Regius Bucer Zuinglius Melancthon Luther the Common-Prayer Book in King Edward's time Printed 1549. and many others of our Learned Doctors and what can you call more properly the Doctrine of the Reformation than what such Men teach to be the Doctrine of Scripture And though our Brethren Quakers Anabaptists Presbyterians and Protestants Judge Prayers to Angels and Saints to be nothing else but Popery yet our Common-Prayer Book has the same Collect or Prayer to Angels in St. Michael's day that the Popish Mass Book has and desires that the Angels may succour and defend us on earth and Prayers to and Intercession of Saints is taught by Luther y Bilneus and Latimer quoted by Fox and consequently it 's the Doctrine of the Reformation Ismael If all these Popish Articles may be safely believed by the Reformation and be the Doctrine of our Reformed Church as well as of Popery what difference then betwixt us and Popery or why are we call'd a Reformation of Popery or why did we separate from them Isaac I have told you already that our difference from Popery is not because we must deny what they believe for we believe as well as they the Unity and Trinity of God the Incarnation of his Son c. but in this that the Papists believe because the Pope and Church says this is true revealed Doctrine but we believe not because any Church Pope or Doctor says so but because we our selves judge by Scripture it is so for if a Papist did say I do not believe this is a revealed Truth because the Pope and Church says it is but because I find by Scripture it is he would be no Papist believe then whatever Doctrine you will either Popery Judaism Protestancy Arianism or what else you please provided you judge by Scripture it is true and that you believe it not because this or that Church Congregations or Doctors believe it but because your self judges it to be true you 'l be a true Child of the Reformation And this is the reason why we are called a Reformation and why we separated from them because they would have us take for our Rule of Faith Scripture as interpreted by them and believe not what we judge to be the Doctrine of Scripture but what they judge and this is also the Reason why Presbyterians are jealous with the Church of England why Anabaptisâ—s forsake Presbyterians why these are forsaken by Quakers because each one would have the World judge as they do and persecute and trouble one another which is quite against the Spirit of the Reformation for whereas our Rule of Faith is no Church Congregation or Man but Scripture as each one understands it it follows that by our principles every one must he permitted to believe whatever he pleases and by so doing he will be a true Child of the Reformation Ismael The Church of England nor any of our Congregations will never believe any of those Popist Tenets Isaac The time may come that they may believe them all and be still as good Reformers as now they are For if the Pope and his Church should to morrow deny and excommunicate those Tenets which now they so steadfastly believe and I hope they will some day then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all Reformed Children to believe them all as much as now they deny them And let us pretend what other reasons we please but it 's very certain that the strongest reason we can have to deny those Articles is because the Pope and his Church believes them and consequently if the Popish Church would but deny them we might and ought to believe them you will think this a Paradox but listen to our Apostolical and Divine Luther If a general Council says he did permit Priests to Marry it would be a singular marke of Piety and sign of Godliness in that case to take Concubines rather than to Marry in conformity to the Decree of the Council I would in that case command Priests not to Marry under pain of damnation And again he says If the Council should Decree Communion in both kinds in contempt of the Council I would take one only or none See these words of Luther quoted by our learned Hospinian and Jewel and see it 's not only my Doctrine but of great Luther that in case the Pope and Council deny all the Tenets they now believe we may and it will be a pious godly action to believe them and make as many Acts of Parliament for them as now we have against them But what 's the matter Methinks you become pale something troubles you speak what is it Ismael It 's the horror I conceive against your discourse my countenance cannot be in a calm when my mind is in such a storm and confusion pursue no more you said enough that I should curse the day I have ever seen you or heard that which you call Holy Liberty which is but a prostitution of Consciences a prophanation of all that is sacred and an open gap to all impiety in Doctrine and Manners But I hope the Lord has given me that profound respect and attach to our Holy Reformation that I shall not be beaten from it by all your Engines able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weak Brother for who would live a moment in it if such impious Tenets such scandalous and blasphemous Doctrines were of it or were unavoidable sequels out of its Principles No no the principles of the Reformed Church are sound and Orthodox and no Doctrine can follow from them but what 's pure and true Isaac Let me tell you I have as tender a love for the Reformation as you And I will maintain the Holy Liberty I assert cannot justly be called a prostitution of Consciences for you dare not deny but this is an Orthodox and sound principle that our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each person of sound Judgment understands it that it is lawful for each person of sound Judgment to read it to give his Judgment of the true sense of it and to believe and hold that sense of it which he thinks in his Conscience to be true is there any prostitution of Consciences in this Doctrin Or is it not the Doctrin of our Reformation Ismael All this is true the prostitution of Consciences lyes not there but in the scandalous and blasphemous Tenets which you pretend that follow out of the Rule of Faith. Isaac But you wrong the Reformation in calling such Tenets blasphemies and scandals For since our Rule of Faith is Scripture as each Person of sound Judgment understands it if this Rule of Faith be good and sound if it be Religious and Holy any Doctrin that is conformable to this Rule must be good sound religious and holy this being our Rule of Faith and Manners it 's clearer than day light that all and each other Tenet