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A01272 An other boke against Rastel named the subsedye or bulwark to his fyrst boke, made by Ihon Frithe preso[n]ner in the Tower Frith, John, 1503-1533.; Frith, John, 1503-1533. Disputacion of purgatorye. 1537 (1537) STC 11385; ESTC S105656 24,707 52

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of Rastell came to his handes when he was presonner in the Tower of London where he made the answer folowyng to the same which answere after Rastell had reade he was well contēt to counte his natural reason folyshnes and with harty thankes geuen to god becam a chylde agayne and sucked of the wysdome which cometh from aboue saueth all that be noryshed therwith in the which he contynued to his lyfes ende with the honour and glorye of God to whome be prase for euer Amen ¶ Here foloweth te preface of this boke BRother Rastell I thanke yow that it had pleased you to be so fauourable vnto me a pore presoner as to shewe me a copie of your boke which yow haue wryten to confute my reasons scrypture that I haue alleged against purgatory for that hath caused me to make a subsydy defence bulwarke to my boke which by goddes grace shalbe an occation to open more lyght although not to yow yet at the lestwyse vnto them whose hartes the prince of this world hathe no● blynded but that the lyghte of the gospell and glorye of Chryste maye shyne in thē And where as yow wryte proteste that yow wyll brenge no scripture agaynst me But only rehersse my scrypture againe whiche I haue alleged vnꝑfeytlye and wounde me with myne owne dartes wyll but euen do as one that playeth at tennes wyth another tossinge the balle agayne I doo verye well admitte your similitude Not withstodinge yow know ryght wel that it is not I noughe for a man playinge at tēnes to tosse the ball agayn but he must so tosse it that the tother take it not For yf the other smyte it ouer agayne then is the game in as great ieoberdy as it was before besydes that he muste take hede that he neyther smyte to shorte of the lynne nor yet vnder for then it is a losse and he had ben better to let it go And finallye somtyme a māsmyteth ouer thynkethe al wonne and yet an vngracious poste stondeth in the waye maketh the ball to rebounde backe agayne ouer the corde loseth the game And that wyl anger a man I assartayne yow that ye haue tossed neuer a ball but ye offende in one of this poyntes yet besydes that somtyme ye playe a touche of legerdemayne caste me a ball which when it commythe I perceaue to be non of myne all the courte shall iudge the same This poyntes shalbe declared when we come to them and nowe I wyll answer in order An answere to Rastels fyrst prologe IN youre prologe yow assigned ii causes of the makyng of youre .i. boke of purgatory without alleginge any textes of scripture for the proue therof which are the cōtrouersye of .ii. sortes of people One sorte you say be those that beleue not ī Christ but denie christ his scripture as be the turkes paynims suh other miscreaūts An other sorte be they that beleue in chryste his scripture nor wyll denye no texte of holy scripture but yet they wyll cōstrue expōde and interprete this textes after theyr owue wylles and obstinate mynde c. Now let vs cōsyder your forsayd causes pōder whether your boke haue or may do any such good as you say pretended whether it haue cōuerted those sortes of people or els by any thynge likely to do suche a facte And fyrst let vs se what it profyteth the fyrste sorte which are infideles not beleuīge ī chryst nor his scripture Our sa●iour christ saieth he that beleueth is not dāpned Ihō Bap. cōfirmeth the same saying he that beleueth in the son̄e hath euerlastīge lyffe but he that beleueth not in the sonē shall not se lyfe but the wrath of god abydeth vppō hī Here it is euident not be my exposicyō but by the cōsent of all christē men that those in fideles are dāpned for what entēt thā shulde Rastel teache thē that there is a purgatory without christ their is no way but dāpnacy on as scripture all faythfull men testifye Thē wolde I know by what way he wolde ꝑswade that there were a purgatory which shulde be away ameane to saluacion and not to dāpnaciō for them which beleue not in Chryst This I am sure of I thīke Rastell beleueth it also that the infydeles shall neuer come in it thoughe theire were one This you maye se that his fyrst cause is verye vayne that yf they dyd beleue it they were in dead deceyued Now let vs ꝓcede vnto the secōde sorte of poeple which beleue in christ his scripture yet misconstrue it expoūding it after their owne willes And let vs se what frute they take of this boke what it profyteth them we shall fynde that it lesse serueth these mē thē the fryste for if this men beleue in chryst in his scripture thē is it not possyble that they shulde receaue or admytte that thynge whiche is against the scripture bothe by the exposiciō of thē selues of al the worlde For this is both agaynst scrypture and all faithfull men that there shulde be anye waye to helth yf we exclude Christ and his scripture And syth purgatorye is counted awaye to helthe he that wolde go aboute to proue it secludynge Chryst and scrypture is against scrypture and all faythfull men Besydes that yf they be so obstynate that they wyll not receaue the verye scripture but expounde it after theyr owne wylles wrest it after the same then wyll they moche lesse receaue your boke which is so playne against scripture and therfore yf yow wolde thīke that they coulde be tamed by your boke which notwitstonding so wresteth scrypture thē may I verye well lyken yow to him that hath a wilde horse to tame which when he ꝑceueth that he cā not holde him with a scokry she snafle wyll yet labour to breake hī with a rotyn twyne threde So that I can espye no maner of profyte that can come of youre boke yf yowe can allege no better causes thē yow yet shew but that it had ben a greate dele better on wryten And brother Rastel where yow say that I auaunce boste my selfe moch more then becometh me and that I detraycte slander my neyghbours and that I prouoke all mē that read my boke rather to vyce thē to vertu with such other thynges as ye lay to my charge I trust I shall declare my inconuenyence and geue yow a sufficient answere ¶ An answere to Rastels fyrst Chapter whych reproueth me for boostynge my selfe IN the fyrst chapter of this boke Rastel laboureth to proue that I am sore ouer sene in laudinge bosting my selfe and that I like my selfe so wel that he is sure that other men do lyke me the lesse that he fereth that god wyll therfore lyke me fauour me rather the worse then the better Here he iogeleth wyth me wolde make me beleue that
wyll saye so agayne take it as he wyll Also he recyteth as a great reproche that I shulde saye I meruayle howe oure scolemen maye abyde this felowe And surelye the same I say againe for he prouethe bothe Saynte Thomas and them also foles and double foles whyche yf I shulde so doo wolde be counted haynous heresye Then he reherseth what I say of Master more and my lorde of Rochestre and all to helpe his mater that whē I say the smal probacions and slender reasons that those .ii. wytted men syr Thomas More and my lorde of Rochestre had brought to confyrme purgatory made my harte to yerne what raylynge or yestynge this is let other mē iudge but this I dare auow that I sayd the truthe for what shulde a mā do or say to se thē so cōtrary in their tales Master More saith that their is fyer no water ī purgatory my lord of Rochester saith that their is both fier water .m. more saith that the mynister of punyshment are deuels And my lorde of Rochester sayeth that the minister of punyshment are angels Master More sayeth that bothe the grace and charyte of them that lye in paynes of purgatory are increased my lord of Rochestre saith the soules of purgatorye obtayne there nother more fayth nor grace nor charyte then they brought in with thē Now iudge good reader whether I haue rayled or sayed the truethe but all this doth● Rastell leue oute full craftely he recyteth ful diligently bothe the hede tayle but the middle which expoūdeth the matter wyll he not let you se He allegeth also agaynst me that I say Master More is sore disceyued and set on the sand euen at the fyrste brunte and in the begynnynge of his viage and that I wolde wysh master More a lyttell more wytte Euen that I say agayne and affyrme it to be true and is so euydently proued in the begynnynge of my answere agaynste Master More that I neade to saye nothynge but only referre the reader vnto the place Also he improueth me for sayinge in an other place that master More sheweth hym in one texte twyse ignoraunte and that he is to busye for he vnderstondeth not the phrase of scrypture This and suche other sayinges he allegeth which I passe ouer for I counte it folye to spende paper and laboure aboute the rehersynge of thē for yf you reade my boke you shall se all these poyntes so playnly proued that he moughte be ashamed to make mencion of them This he counteth gestinge sclanderinge and raylinge sayinge that no reasonable man wyll thynke these poyntes to be thīges belonginge to vertue but rather spyces and branches of pryde and that I shewe not my selfe therin charitable but rather malicious nor no wysdom therin but rather folye addynge that yf I had bene halfe yere at two scoles that is to saye the scole of discrecion and the scole of cheryte I shulde more haue prospered in vertuous lernyng then I haue done in other scoles this .vii. yere And sayeth that I haue ben at the scoles of slanderynge raylinge and gestinge Dere brother yf it had bene so that I had spoken certayne wordes in deade which● might haue semed in your yies to be raylinge detractinge and slanderynge as I haue not sauynge a lyttell gestyng wolde you disproue my doctrine therby what wyl you then say to S. John̄ baptist which called the pharyses then hedes of the churche as are now our doctours generacion of viperes wolde you therfore conclude that his doctrines where noughte I thynke you be not so chyldishe And it semeth this one sentence to be more raylinge and slanderlyng then all that I haue wryten what wyll you say to Chryste which called the scrybes and pharyses hypocrytes Math. 15. 16. 22. and in the .13 he semethe to rayle aboue measure where he calleth them hypocrites and blynde gydes paynted sepulchers whiche onwardlye appere ryghtwyse but wythin are full of ypocrysye serpentes and generacion of vipers Besydes that he calleth herode fox Luce .xiii. and the ●ewes he called a frowarde and aduouteres generacion Math 12. 16. and in the .17 he sayeth o vnfaythful and ouerwharte nacyon wolde you thynke it shulde excuse the iewes whyche refused his doctrine to saye that he rayled and that no reasonable man wolde thynke those thynges to be poyntes belonginge to vertu but rather spices and braunches of pryde and that he shewed not hymselfe charitable but malicious nor no wysdome therin but folye wolde it excuse them to say as you do to me that yf he had bene one halfe yere at scole of discreciō and chartye he shulde more haue prospered in vertuous lernynge that he had ben at the scoles of sclandering raylinge iestynge Finally S. Paul in your yies might appere to raile slāder to be clene destitute of goddes sprete which as Luc. saieth replenished with the holy gost said to Elemas that resisteth hī Act. 13. o thou full of al suttelty deceite thou son̄e of the deuel enemy of all rightwisnes ceaseth not to ꝑuerte the rightwayes of the lord I cā brīge many m● such sainges of Peter Joh. James Judas yet I thinke you will not inproue their doctrine therby but because I studye to be shorte I shal coūte it sufficiēt to haue warned the reder of this Notwithstōdīg ꝑaduēture Rastel wyl not yet be āswered but wil say that albeit I haue touched ynough as cōcernīg those thinges that appere ra●ling slāderig in his yies yet I brought non that iest as I do wher vnto I maye answere allege for me her●as the ꝓphet which both mocked the false prestes gested with thē sayinge calle lowde vnto your godes for ꝑaduēture they are a slepe cā not here or els they be gone out of towne I cā not ynough meruell that my brother Rastel wolde vse such maner of reasoning with me as to imꝓue my doctrine because of my raylinge and gestynge For therwith he hathe made a foule hole in his kinsmās beste cote for euery mā ꝑceyueth that M. More his bokes are so full of raylinge gesting bandye tales that yf the furyous momus venus had take out their pertyes theyre shulde be verye lyttel lefte for vulcanus After this Rastell dissenteth to the purpose of his mater wolde proue that my exposicions of scripture are not good because they are an occasyon to brynge the people to boldnes of synne to moue the people to deylte in other mens fautes and to laughte therat and to put you an ensample he sayeth yf I shulde take vppon me the exposicion of this texte In principio erat verbū et verbum erat apud deum c and expounde it after this maner In the begynnynge of this yere John̄ Frith is a noble clarke He kylled a mylstone wyth his spere Kepe wel your geese your dogs do barke I trowe