an Heretike for all Heretikes doe as much But Maister T. W. for I will not misname you by H. T. dic sodes tell vs in sooth and sadnesse Do Heretikes beleeue the scriptures I in my poore ignorance haue heretofore thought that Heretikes beleeued erronious and false doctrines repugnant and contrary to the scriptures and that therevpon this argument would haue holden water viz. that they which beleeue false doctrines doe not beleeue the holie Scriptures which containe nothing but new doctrine but Heretikes beleeue false doctrines ergo they beleeue not the holie Scriptures Tell vs also will Heretikes haue the sphere of their faith extended solie and wholie to the worde of GOD set downe in holy writ Then this saying of Tertullian which in my poore ignorance I haue thought that neuer any misliked vnlesse hee were an Heretike will not goe for currant Aufer deniquae haereticis c. Take away from Heretikes Tertul. deresurrect carnis whatsoeuer the Ethnikes haue thought and taught that they may trie their questions Onelie by the Scriptures and they cannot stand For how can this bee that they which beleeue the Scriptures cannot stand if their doctrines bee tried onely by the scriptures But you will say that Heretikes professe that they beleeue the scriptures But is this all one with you for Heretikes to profeâ—â—e the beleefe of the scriptures and in Tiâ— 1. 16. deede to beleeue them Saint Paul saith that some professe to know GOD and by workes do denie him Some also professed themselues to bee Iewes that is to say worshippers Apoca. 2. 9. of GOD as you doe now professe yourselues to bee Catholikes and some to bee of the societie of Iesus when both they were and you are the synagogue and of the societie of sathan Some professed themselues to bee Iohn 8. 39. 40. the Children of Abraham which did not the workes of Abraham but their faither was the diuell as our Sauiour Christ told them Euen so Heritikes may professe Psal 44. that they beleeue the Scriptures when indeede they beleeue them not but reiect the truth of them and beleeue false and damnable doctrines repugnant vnto them Heretikes bee theeues which endeuor to steale away the truth from the people of whom Saint Chrysostome saith Qâ—i sacra non vtitur scriptura sed ascendit aliunde Chrysost in Iorm hom 58. idest non concessa via fur est Hee is a theefe that vseth not the scripture hee saith not that beleeueth the scripture but clymeth into the sheepefold by an other way which is not allowed Of the true sense and exposition of the Scripture I haue intreated at large before Onely now I will ioyne this issue with you vpon these words of Saint Hierome recorded 24. Quaest 3. Haeâ—sis by Gratian in the decrees Quicunque aliter scripturam intelligit c. Whosoeuer expoundeth the scripture otherwaies then the sense of the Holie Ghost by whome it was written doth require although hee haue not departed from the Church yet hee may bee called an Heretike Let them with good will of vs and you that shall soundlie bee prooued to expound the Scriptures other-waies then the sense of the Holie Ghost requireth bee called accounted condemned and punnished Heritikes yea your Expositions bee so false and for ours true that some Papists and euen some of your sweete bretheren the Iesuites are forced by the euidence of Apa Cathel part 2 lib. 5. cap. 17. 18. 19. c. truth to forsake yours and to approoue ours as M. D. Morton hath learnedly and largely declared What you or any other Heretikes say of our Religion beleefe and expositions wee little regard as long as you cannot prooue them to bee hereticall and wee are by the worde of GOD well assured that they bee orthodoxall As touching the book of the Canticles of Sollomon we by the Scriptures doe beleeue that it is the worde of God Saint Paule speaking of the Scripture contained in the canonicall bookes of the old Testament and receiued by the Church of Israell saith that the whole Scripture is inspired of God But this booke of the Canticles was with the other books both of Sollomâ—n and of the rest of the old Testament receiued by the Church of Israell therefore by Saint Paules 2 Tim. 3. 16. iudgement it was inspired of God and so consequently the worde of God as well as others But if we did ioyne herein either with some wicked Anabaptistes now or with some old Hertikes heretofore who haue denied this book to be of the Canon of the Scripture as Phylastrius writeth some did whose opinion we abhorre yet from this particular Jn Catall cap. 133. you could not inferre the proofe of your article being generall that the Protestants know not what they beleeue But herein you do as soundly and substantially reason as Bellarmine and others of you do that because the Enuch did not vnderstand that obscure propheticall speech of Isaias which hee was reading when Philip came to him therefore hee vnderstood nothing in the Prophet Isaias Yea and that all the Scripture is so hard and obscure that it is not expedient for the lay people to read it Concerning the alteration of the Sabbath wee gather by the Scriptures and thereby do beleeue that it was made by the Apostles 1. Cor. 16. 2. Apoca. 1. 10. As your owne fellowes of Rhemes in their annotations vpon these places do confesse And therefore the Sabbath we now obserue is warranted by the Scriptures As for that idle speech of yours of generall and perticuler beleeuing thinges in the Scripture little pertinent to the proofe of your article I answer briefly that although neither all Protestants nor Papistes haue perfect and distinct knowldge of all the Scripture Yet God hath so manifestly expressed therein all thinges needfull to our saluation that it is a most perfect rule of faith and life as is before out of Beda alledged although some men blinded by sinne and mallice do not see them no more then men blinde in body see the cleare light of the Sunne nor doe rightly vse this right rule giuen of God vnto them Chrisostome saith Quaecunquâ— necessâ—ria sunt manifesta sunt Whatsoeuer In 2 Thess Hom. 3. thinges are necessary are manifest Againe Scripturae et seruâ— c. The Scriptures are easie to bee vnderstood both of seruants and misticall people of widdowes In Math. Hom. 1. and boyes and to him that is very Ignorant And whereas you would haue the Councels Doctors and Church the rule of our faith and life bring such like plaine places out of the Scriptures and Doctors for the proofe of it then we wil yeeld vnto you As touching the Apostles creed we acknowledge it to be a briefe abridgement of the especiall and principal points of Christian faith doctrine yet there bee some truthes which are not particularly expressed in the same But whereas you say or rather falsely slaunder that the
it most euidently appeareth that blessing and thankesgiuing is all one thing And yet this is more manifest For whereas Saint Matthew and Saint Marke say as is before declared that our Sauiour when hee tooke bread blessed Saint Luke Luke â—2 19. 1 Cor. 10 24. â— Cor. 14. 16. and Saint Paul say hee gaue thankes Hereunto also pertaineth that plaine place of Saint Paul When thâ—â— blessest in the spiâ—it how shall hee that occupieth the place of the vnlearned say Amen to thy giuing of thankes seeing hee knoweth not what thou sayest Who is so blinde and so ignorant that heere seeth not blessing and thankesgiuing to be all one thing And therefore againe I say that by blessing is not here meant a secret whispering of fiue words to the conuerting of the substance of bread and wine into Christs body and blood as Priests foolishly vse and falsly teach but a thankesgiuing to GOD for so louing vs that hee hath giuen his onely begotten Iohn 3. 26. Sonne for vs that as many as beleeue in him shall not perish but haue euerlasting life For the which cause this Sacrament is of the ancient fathers called Eucharistia that is to say thankesgiuing As touching the breaking of bread which mâ—y resemble to vs the breaking of Christs body vpon the Crosse wee doe follow our Sauiour Christ therein and doe breake it when we distribâ—â—e it vnto the people the which the Papistes doe not but thrust in a whole vnbroken wafer into their mouthes Indeed I know that the Priest himselfe doth in his Masse breake his hoste into three parts One to signifie the Saints in heauen another the faithfull vpon the earth the third the soules in Purgatory But this deep diuâ—nity they haue found vpon the back side of the Bible But because this Gentlewoman or author of this scrole vrgeth eagerly the breaking of bread I would faine know what the Priest doth breake when he breaketh his Hosâ—e as they call it into three parts First hee breaketh not by their doctrine the substance of bread for they say there is none remaining to say that they breake Christs body wre blasphemy although it pleased that holy Pope Nicholas with his Councell to prescribe that godly and learned man Berengarius in his De consecra dist 2 â—go Berengariuâ— recantation to affirme the body of Christ Manibus Sacerdotum tractari frangi fidelium denâ—â—bus atterâ— i. To be handled with the Priests hands to be broken and torne with the teeth of the faithfull And to say they breake accidents without a substance were folly or rather madnesse These things before being considered let the indifferent reader vprightly consider how truely this Catholike Gentlewoman saith that we obserue none of these Now it followeth in the sayd paper The truth of the Catholike religion and of euery part thereof is proued euidently by the testimony and consent of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles As for example the Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament the Sacrifice of the masse Purgatorie Prayer for the dead Prayers to Saints the vse of Images the signe of the Crosse Pilgrimage to holy Places and the rest now in controuersie Answere HEere bee things as boldly affirmed as they bee barely proued or rather cleane omitted and therefore they might without further proofe as well bee denied of mee as they bee affirmed of them And although I minde not long to stand vpon these particular poynts yet I will not let them goe so nakedly as they do but will somewhat touch them But heere let the Christian reader consider and marke that whereas this Catholike Gentlewoman saith that the truth of their Catholike religion and euery part thereof is prooued euidently by the testimonies of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles they seeme to exclude from this proofe the Law and the Prophets the Gospell of our Sauiour Christ and the writings of the Apostles contained in the canonicall Scriptures For if they had meant otherwise they would haue sayd that the truth of the Catholike religion and euery part thereof is proued euidently by the testimony of the holy Scriptures and of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles Therefore if their meaning bee as their words seeme to import to exclude from this proofe the canonicall Scriptures then they exclude the onely true triall of Christian religion for if the holy Scriptures Caâ—s 8. quest Nec suffâ— â—erâ— bee the onely rule of our faith and life as Beda saith in these words before alledged Nobis sacris literis vnica est credendi pariter viuendi regula praescripta i. The onely rule both of faith and life is prescribed vnto vs in the holy Scriptures then in the proofe of Christian religion we ought not to exclude them but chiefely yea onely to admit them And if Saint Aug. de natu â— grat cap. 60. Augustine doe truely say that wee ought without refusâ—ll to giue our consent onely to the Canonicall Scriptures then surely wee ought to trie and examine all matters by them Therefore I may say vnto you with the same Saint Augustine Auferantur ergo De vâ—itat Eccle cap. 2. c. Let these things bee taken away which wee recite and bring one against another not out of the holy Canonicall bookes but from else where And so let vs trie these points of your Catholike Religion by the holy Canonicall Scriptures the testimony whereof is sufficient and all other testimonies without the same bee of no force so saith the same Saint Agustine Qui diuina testimonia non sequuntur c. Arg. Epist 50. i. They that follow not the diuine testimonies haue lost the waight of mans testimonie Therefore I conclude this point with the same Saint Augustine Non audiâ—mus c. i. Let vs not heare This say I This sayest thou but Aug. de vnitat Eccles cap. 3. let vs heare This saith the Lord. There bee the Lords books whose authority we both consent vnto we both beleeue and wee both obey there let vs seeâ—ke the Church there let vs discusse our cause Bring then plaine proofes out of the holy Canonicall Scriptures for those your catholike points of Religion and I will yeeld And without them whatsoeuer testimonies you bring else where you shall nothing preuaile Well saith Saint Ierome Omne quod loquimur debemus affirmare Hier. in Psalm 98. de Scripturis sacris i. Whatsoeuer wee speake wee ought to affirme or proue it out of the holy Scriptures Idem ad Titum And againe Sine authoritate Scripturarum garrulitas non habet fidem i. Without the authority of the Scriptures pratling hath no credit Now to come to your particular points As touching your Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament if you meane thereby not a Real presence of Christ to the faith of the godly and worthy receiuer whereby wee affirme and beleeue that hee doth
downe in holy writ what there is deliuered that they beleeue what there is cōcealed lieth without the circumference of their beliefe Alas poore ignorance What heretike beleeueth not so much certainly few or none so that by this means al damned hereticks which beleeue the scriptures beleeue alike and they beleeue as much as our Protestants and ours no more then they But the Protestant will replie that hee beleeueth the Scripture in a true sense truely expounded and all other heretikes in an erronious sense and falsely interpreted And they will say as much of their Religion and beleefe and hold you◠exposition hereticall and theirs orthodoxall Againe are you not bound to beleeue the canticles or song of Salomon as a part of your faith and where finde you in the scriptures deliuered that such a booke is Gods word and as such an one ought by faith to bee beleeued That Sunday should bee kept holy-daie and Saterdaie the Iewes Saboth prophained in Gods word is not reuealed and yet by Protestants beleeued Moreouer to beleeue whatsoeuer is contained in the scripture is a generall confused folded implicitie faith when wee demaund what a man is bound to beleeue wee aske what hee is obliged to beleeue expresly distinctlie explicitlie To beleeue all the scripture distinctly explicitly cannot bee preformed by all Protestants since it supposeth a perfect and distinct knowledge of all the scripture wherevnto neuer mortall man attained the Apostles perhaps excepted Some will limit their beleefe to their creed saying that nothing ought to be beleeued which is not in the Apostles creed But then I would demaund of them whether that wee ought to beleeue that the scripture is the word of God that baptisme is a sacrament that in the Eucharist is the bodie of Christ by faith to what article should these be reduced seeing they are not contained in the creed or how shall we know infallibly how these be matters of faith since they are not contained in the creed others denie some articles of their creed also for the Protestants denie three articles of our creed and the puritans fiue The first is the Catholike Church Credo ecclesiam sanctam Catholicam I beleeue the holie Catholike Church the which in very Math. 26. Isa 60. deede they doe not beleeue because Catholike is vniuersall and so the Church of Christ which wee are bound to beleeue must bee vniuersall for all time comprehending all ages and vniuersall for place comprehending all nations but that Church which the Protestants beleeue was interrupted all the ages betwixt the Apostles and Luther which was 1400. yeares or in verie deed was neuer seene before Luthers daies therefore that Church they beleeue cannot bee Catholike Neither is it vniuersali in place beeing contained within the narrow bounds of England which is accompted but as a corner of the world for the Lutherans in Germanie the Hugonotes in France and the Gues in Flanders detest their Religion as much as the Catholikes neither will they ioyne issue with them in diuers essentiall points And therefore the Protestants Church which they beleeue can no more be called Catholike or vniuersall then England the vniuersall world or Kent the Kingdome of England or apruned bough a whole tree or a dead singer a man or a rotten tooth the whole head The second article is the communion of Saints the which they many waies deny First by not beleeuing that Christ hath instituted seauen Sacraments wherein the Saints of the Church communicate and especiallie the true and real presence of our Sauiour Christ in the Eucharist by which all the faithfull receiuers participating of 1. Cor. 01. 17. one the self same body are made one bodie as all the partes of a mans bodie are made one liuing thing by participating one soule Secondly they deny the communion of the Church militant Gen. 48. v. 16. Apoca. 1. v. 4. and triumphant by exclaiming against inuocation of Saints by which holy exercise the blessed Saints in heauen and wee in earth communicate we by prayer glorifying them and they by meditation obtaining our request Thirdly they deny the communion of the Church militant and the soules in purgatory bereauing them of that Christian charitie which charitable compassion and merciful pitty requireth and by natural affection the members of one body helpe one another The third article is remission of sinnes for they acknowledge no such effect in the Sacrament of Baptisme but onely count it as an external signe or seale of a prereceiued grace or fauor of God Ad Tit. 3. by his external predestination against the expresse word of God which therefore calleth this Sacrament the lauer of regeneration Ioh. 20. for that in it the soule dead by sinne is newly regenerate by grace Moreouer they allow not the Sacrament of pennance wherein all actuall sinnes committed after Baptisme are cancelled that which exceedeth all in absurditie is to deny that our sinnes are all perfectly forgiuen but onely not imputed and as it were veiled or couered with the passion of Christ all the botches and biles the filth and abhomination of sinne still remaining and as it were exhaling a most pestiferous sent in the sight of God for let them shift themselues as they list and scarfe their sores according to their fancies yet no veile nor mantell can couer their deformitie of sinne from the piercing eyes of Jo◠8. ver 24. Ioh. 16. v. 13. And D. Bu◠ley contendeth to proue it in his answer to this article albeit he vnderstandeth not the reason here alledged for if he did hee were to absurd to deny it Isa 66. ver 24. Gods perfect vnderstanding from which nothing can be concealed Fourthly the Puritanes in effect deny that Christ is the Sonne of God for they peremptorily affirme that Christ is God of himselfe and not God of God So that he receiued not his diuinitie from his father The which position flatly taketh away the nature of a sonne for the nature of a sonne is to receiue his substance of his Father and it implyeth contradiction that the Sonne receiueth his person of his Father and not his substance and essence for the substance of God is essentiall to euery person in trinitie Fiftly finally they deny the descension of Christ into hell and desperately defend that he suffered the Paines of hell vpon the Crosse wherby they blaspheme most horribly that sacred humanitie as if Christ had dispaired of his saluation as if God had hated him and he had hated God Marke 9. 48. Math. 25. 41. as if he had bene afflicted and tormented with anguish of mind for his offences for which he was depriued of the sight of God and eternally to be depriued all which horrible punishments are especially included in the paines of Hell and whosoeuer ascribeth them to Christ blasphemeth more horribly then Arius who denied him to God for lesse absurditie it were to deny him to be God then to make
you prooue little The GOD of patience and consolation giue vnto Rom. 15 5. vs and you that wee may bee like minded one towards an other according to Christ Iesus that we may all with one minde and one mouth praise God euen the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ Amen Whereas you say that we haue no argument to prooue that we haue the true Church true religion and true faith but such as al heretikes haue euer vsed I answere that wee haue that argument and proofe for these things which although Heretikes haue falsely pretended as popish heretikes now do yet the Godly learned Fathers haue sincerely vsed And that is the holy word of God the only touchstone of truth and piller of the Church for as the Church 1. Tim. 3. 15 in one respect is the piller of truth as Saint Paul saith so in another the truth is the piller and prop of the Church as Chrysost in illum locum ho mil. 11. Math. 4. 4 7 10. Math. 19. 4. ibid. 22 29. Luk. 24. 27. 32 44 46 Rom. 1 2. 3 21. 4 3. Chrysostom saith For by what meanes els haue the Godly and learned Fathers in all ages confuted heresies and proued the Church but by the scriptures by them our Sauiour Christ foyled the diuell and put him to flight By them he answered the Pharisies By them he confuted the Sadduces By them he proued himselfe to be the promised Messias and Sauiour of the world By them Saint Paul confirmed the Gospel which he preached By them hee perswaded the Iewes those things which concerned Christ Iesus both out of the Law of Moses and out of the Act. 21. 23. ibid. 18 2 8 Prophets By them Apollos confuted the Iewes with great vehemencie shewing by the Scriptures that Iesus was the Christ By them the Godly and learned Fathers confuted and confounded the Arians and other Heretikes whom you here name as by their bookes and particular sayings it euidently appeareth Athanasius speaking of the Godly Athanas de de cretis Nicen. Synod pag. 528 decrees of the councell of Nice against the Arians writeth thus Atque harum rerum non aliunde nos quà m ex scripturis persuasionem habemus that is We be perswaded of these things by no other meanes but by the Scriptures Epiphanius saith In Scripturis sanctis Trinttas nobit Epipâ— contra pâ—â—umaiomachos haeres 7â— annuÌ„tiatur ac creditur citra curiositatem c. The Trinity is in the holy Scriptures preached vnto vs without curiositie beleued And that by theÌ„ al doctrines are to be confirmed al errors and heresies to be confuted they plainely and plentifully shew Tertullian saith that if Heretikes Tertul. lib de resurrec carnes Eâ—iph contra pâ—ulum Samosa haeres 66 Basii epist 80. bee brought to examine and try their questions onely by the Scriptures they cannot stand Epiphanius saith that wee are not to discusse questions by our owne wittes and reasons Sedex Scripturarum consequentia By the consequeÌ„ce of the Scriptures Saint Basil saith Let vs stand to the arbitrement of the Scripture inspired of God and with whome bee found doctrines agreeable to those diuine words let the truth be iudged to be with them Constantine sayd vnto the Bishoppes in the Nicene Councell The Euangelicall and Apostolicall bookes and the Oracles of the Theod. lib. 8. cap. 7 sol 284. Prophets doe plainely instruct vs of GOD wherefore laying away all enimitie and discord let vs take the explication or resolution of the questions in controuersie out of those saying inspired of GOD. So saith Saint Augustine Verum nos sacris literis accommodemus auditum c. August in Euang Ioan. tract 60. August de cura pro mortuis cap. 2. Let vs hearken vnto the holy Scriptures and according to them let vs helpe by the grace of God to dissolue this question And againe Non secunduÌ„ opinionem c. We must consider of this matter not according to yâ— commoÌ„ opinion but according to the holy Scriptures of our religion And of yâ— Church he saith thus Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam De vnitate ecclesiae cap. 16. teneant non nisi diuinarum ScripturaruÌ„ canonicis libris ostendant but whether they haue yâ— church let them shew by no other meanes but by the Canonical books of the diuine Scriptures Chrysostom saith yâ— we cannot know Chrisostom in Math. Homil. 44. which is the true Church of Christ Nisi tantummodo per Scripturas but onely by the Scriptures Therefore by the Scriptures proue your doctrine and shew your Church Math 4. But you say the Arians others Heretikes alleadged the Scriptures whereunto I adde that so did the Diuel also but in such sort as you and your fellowes doe in mangling them falsly expounding and applying them as I haue in some part before shewed I am conteÌ„t to ioyne this issue with you that they with be proued to depraue detort mangle and falsly expound and apply the scriptures be heretikes and to bee condemned with these old heretikes whome you here name To whome whether you or we bee more like let the vpright Reader indifferently iudge The Arians seeing that they could haue nothing out of the Scriptures fled as Athanasius saith vnto the Fathers and euen so do you The Arians vsed subtill distinctions Athanas tomâ— 2. to elude and shift of the truth and so do you They denied the person of Christ and you deny the office of Christ in not acknowledging him to be our onely Prophet and teacher whose onely voyce wee must heare and obey nor the only King and head of his Church nor our onely high Priest with the sweet smelling sacrifice of himselfe once for euer offered to redeeme and reconcile vs vnto God nor our only mediator to make intercession for vs. The Arians did cruelly persecute the true Christians Ruffin lib. 1. cap. 17. Socrates lib. 1. cap. 17. zozo in lib. 4. cap. 27. Gregor Nazi anz artic ad Arianos and so do Papists when power is in their hand to doe it The Arians when they could not preuaile against that excellent man Athanasius fell to raile vpon him and to slaunder him accusing him of adulterie murther and sorcerie and euen so do you now deale with such as for their godlinesse and learning may well bee compared with Athanaesiuâ— I meane especially Caeluin whome the Author of that vnlearned libell and beastly booke intituled A quartron of reasons of Catholike religion c. is not ashmed 5. reasoÌ„ pa. 30. to call a seare backt Priest for Sodomie O thou shamelesse man or rather monsterlart thou not ashamed to slaunder and belie such a man of whome they that knew him did truly write of him ipsâ— Ã quo potuit virtutem discere virtus Theo Beza that euen virtue it selfe might as it were haue learned vertue of him How doest thou know that Caluin was such a man I assure my selfe
discerne the absurdities of an vntrue religion Vertuous and well inclined affections which are the base of quiet secure and religious consciences abhor and detest such principles as either dishonor God abase mans nature occasion sinne fauor iniquity or any sort diminish deuotion or piety And therefore all the insequent articles shall stand vpon these two foundations to wit that the Protestants religion debarreth the wit from right vnderstanding the true faith and the will from following of any vertue or godlinesse Answere YOu wonder that any man in England endued with a good iudgement conioyned with a religious conscience can either accept or affect the Protestants new coyned gospell But why doe you not shew what is the new coyned gospell which the Protestants preach and professe The Gospell is the good and ioyfull message of our saluation through Gods mercies purchased vnto vs by Iesus Christ This Gospell God preached to Adam that Iesus Christ the seed of the woman should breake the Serpents Genes 3. 16. head This he renued to Abraham saying In thy seed shall all the nations of the world bee blessed This Gospell was Genes 22. 18. preached by all the Prophets who beare witnesse vnto Christ that through his name all that beleeue in him shall Act. 10. 43. reciue forgiuenesse of sinnes Now if you can prooue that wee preach or maintaine any other gospell then this then you may well call it a new coyned gospell if otherwise take heed you doe not belch out blasphemie in calling this old and true gospell of Iesus Christ a new coyned gospell And let the Christian reader which tendereth his owne saluation well consider who they be that coine a new false and counterfeit gospell Doe not they which teach vs to ascend into heauen by the bloud of Thomas Becket coyne a In the Popish Primer printed 1557. new and false gospell Tu per Thomae sanguinem c. which they Englished in Queene Maries dayes thus By the bloud of Thomas which hee for thee did spend make vs Christ to come whither Thomas did ascend Againe Iesu bone per Thomae merita nostra nobis dimitte debita O good Iesus for the merits of Thomas Becket forgiue vs our sinnes Doe not they which teach vs to seeke to bee deliuered from the fire of hell by the merits and prayers of Saint Nicholas maintaine a new coyned gospell Thus they prayed Quesimus vt eius meritis precibus à gehennae incendiis In the same Primer liberemur Grant wee beseech thee that by his merites and prayers wee may bee deliuered from the fire of hell Do not they which say and beleeue of an Agnus dei that is to say a peece of waxe and balme consecrated by the Pope Tollit omne malignum peccatum frangit vt Lib. 1. Caeremo titul 7. pag 91. Christi sanguis angit It taketh away all euill it breaketh and strangleth sinne as doth the bloud of Christ doe not they I say coine a new false and blasphemous Gospell Yes surely for to attribute remission of sinnes or any part of saluation to the merits of any other but onely of Iesus Christ crucified is to coine a new and false gospell for it is not that gospell of God which hee promised afore by his Rom. 1. 2. Prophets in the holy scriptures which is concerning his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord c. To conclude this point I say woe woe vnto them that accept or affect any new coined gospell Script Brita Centur. 4. p. 308. How your Friers went about aboue 300. yeares past to bring in a new coyned gospell which they called the euerlasting gospell and said that it excelled as much the Gospel of Christ as the Sunne in brightnesse excelleth the Moone and the kirnell the shell Maister Bale out of the Bookes of that execellent man William de Sancto amore who in those dayes did withstand their diuelish deuises did largely declare And whereas you wonder that men indued with iudgment and a religious conscience could affect or accept the gospel that we preach which you falsely call a new coined gospell we may well wonder that any man that hath any sparke of knowledge or conscience should beleeue these foresaid false gospels Wee may also wonder that men indued with reasonable soules and senses being the handy worke of God should bow downe and worship a stone and stock which hath neither soule nor life hath eyes and seeth not eares and heareth not c. and is the workemanship of mans Psal 115. 135. hands especially being so plainely and expresly forbidden in Gods commandements infinit places of the scriptures We may wonder that any man should be so mad as to worship and thinke that which he doth eate to be his God and maker which is so absurd that euen Tully not without Cicero de Natura dâ—orum lib. 2. reason could say sed ecquem tam amentem esse put as qui illud quo vescitur deum credat esse Doest thou thinke any man so mad as to beleeue that to be his God which he doth eate yet into this madnesse by a spirituall phrensie be these men fallen Wee also may wonder that they should beleeue such false fables and lying miracles as abound in poperie as for example to cast the dung of their abhominations vpon their faces That Images did speake did sweate did roll their eyes did bleed that the head of a dog being cut off from the body by theeues which vpon Saint Katherines day came to rob a Priest who was a deuoute Inter sermones discipuli Serm. de S. Katherin worshipper of her did still barke That the Virgin Mary did for many yeares in a Nunnery keepe the keyes and supply the place of one Beatrix whilest shee went away and played the whore These and many such absurd fables were preached published printed and beleeued as may appeare by Sermones discipuli Antoninus the Archbishop of In promptu discipuli Florence stories Mariale Summa praedicantia the festiuall Vitas patrum and that monstrous booke the Legend written by Iacobus de Voragine Archbishop of Genua Which Supplementum Chronicorum Bergomens li. 13. fol. 205. yet was in so great reputation with them that it was published in print in the English tongue when the holy Bible was suppressed and had this title set before it The golden Legend for as gold excelleth all other mettals so this booke excelleth all other bookes to the which title that worthy and right worshipfull Knight Sir Andrew Corbet of blessed memory did adde these words In lying and so of a false blasphemous title made it a most true title Yea I haue a booke in English in Folio translated out of French and printed in London in King Henry the eights daies Anno 1521. intituled The flower of the Commandements fully fraighted with such sottish and worse then old wiues fables which yet in those daies were preached
sunt in scripturis non possunt ostendi nisi ex scripturis The expositions which bee in the Scriptures cannot bee shewed but out of the Scriptures So Theodoretus saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodor dia. log 1. Hilarius de trinitate lib. 9 i. Thou needest no strange exposition For the Euangelist expoundeth himself So Hilarius saith Dictorum intelligentia aut ex praepositis aut ex consequentibus expectetur The vnderstaÌ„ding of the sayings is to be looked for either of those things which go before or those that follow after So Clemens saith Ex ipsis scripturis sensum capere veritatis oportet From the scriptures themselues we must take the sense and Distinst 37. cap. Relatum exposition of truth Finally so Pope Pius the second Ab ipsa scriptura reciptendus est sensus veritatis The vnderstanding of the truth is to bee receiued from the scripture it selfe Aeneas Siluiâ—â— epist 130 Now how carefully and diligently wee endeuour to doe this that is to expound the holy Scriptures truely and sincerely by the Scriptures themselues God knoweth our writings sermons do shew and the consciences of those that reade and heare them can witnesse with vs. And this is also an argument hereof that you cannot bring forth any places of the Scriptures which wee falsely expound or seeke violently and wickedly to wrest from the true and simple sence of the holy Ghost contained in the holy scriptures The which this cauiller should haue done and thereby declare how wee build our faith vpon priuate and false expositions But let vs see and examine his proofe of his Minor which is that because wee build not our faith vpon the exposition of the Church the Fathers or Councells therefore wee build vpon our owne priuate exposition I answere that although we reuerence the iudgement of the true Church of God the holy Fathers and Councels yet by this that I haue before alledged it plainely appeareth that we are to fetch the sense and exposition of the Scriptures not from them but from the scriptures themselues And wheras you by the Church do meane the Romish Church I will shew hereafter that shee hath corrupted and falsely expounded the scriptures As touching the Doctors we are not bound vnto their expositions which sometimes be Card. Caietanus in praefatione in lib. 5. Mosis not sound and sometimes differ among themselues Yea Cardinall Caietanus plainely auoucheth this and doubteth not to bring sometimes senses and expositions to the scriptures which be not in all the Doctors His words be these Nullus itaque detestetur nouum sacrae scripturae sensum ex hoc quod dissonat a priscis doctoribus Sed scrutetur perspicacius textum ac contextum scripturae si quadrare inuenerit laudet Deum qui non alligauit expositionem scripturarum sacrarum pristorum doctorum sensibus c. that is Let no man hereupon detest or dislike a new exposition of the holy scripture because it dissenteth from the old Doctors But let him more sharpely search the text and Coherence of the scriptures and if hee finde it to agree therewith let him praise GOD who hath not bound the exposition of the holy Scriptures to the senses and expositions of the ancient Doctors Yea Bishippe Fisher a great patrone of the Popes doubteth not to affirme that many things in the Io. Roffens Assert Lutheran artic 18. fol. 206. Gospell and other scriptures bee now more exactly discussed and more plainely vnderstood then they were of old time of the Fathers and that there be yet many obscure and hard places which will be much better vnderstood of the posteritie Andradius also the Iesuite as he doth defend Caietane in the one so doth he ioyne with B. Fisher in the other as the learned may reade in his defence of the tridentine faith lib. 2. pag. 160. et 161. where by it appeareth that their iudgement was that the exposition of the scriptures is not to bee tied vnto the Fathers and then much lesse to the Councells which doe not expound in order the bookes of the scriptures as the Fathers did but onely examined some places and discussed some Doctrines which were in controuersie Moreouer whereas Saint Augustine in his foure bookes de doctrina christiana entreateth largely of the exposition of the Scriptures and giueth many good and learned lessons concerning the same and namely seauen rules of Ticonius the Donatist which hee commendeth and calleth them keyes to open the scripture neither he nor Ticonius doe make mention of these rules which the author of this pamphlet doth here set downe nor referre vs vnto them Therefore these bee new coined rules of your owne voyde of the testimony of antiquitie But that the Christian reader may see who they be that build their faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the scripture let vs come to the examination of some particular places of the scripture and see who they be that follow priuate and false expositions The wordes of our Math. 26. 27 Sauiour Christ drinke ye all of it they expound that Christ spake them onely to his Apostles which as they terme them were Priests and therefore this bindeth Priests to drinke of the Cup but not the lay people So saith Iohn Fisher Io. Rossens Assert Luther confut arti 16 the Bishop of Rochester Bibite ex eo omnes Quae verba procul-dubio solis erant dicta sacerdotibus quibus potestas tum fuerat collata conficiendi sacramenti nimirum hijs verbis hoc facite in meam commemorationem Drinke all of this which words without all doubt were spoken onely to Hosius de com sub vtraque specie Confess Petri. cap. 40. contr Brentium lib. 3 Doct. Hard. in his answere to M. Iewel arti 3 Andrad ortho explicat lib. 7 pag. 606. Aenas Syluius epist â—30 pag. 672. Priests to whom powre also was giuen to make the Sacrament that is by these words doe this in remembrance of me The same in effect wrote Cardinal Hosius Doctor Harding Andradeus Aeneas Siluius and others This exposition although peraduenture it will not bee counted priuate for that it is maintained by so many great men yet it is a very false and absurd exposition and easily to bee discerned by any simple man For if these words Drinke ye all of it were spoken onely to Priests then likewise these Take yee ate ye were spoken onely to Priests And so by your wise exposition as none but Priests by these words are bound to drinke of the Cup so none but Priests are bound to take and eate the bread as it was the manner and custome of Jo. Gerson tom 1. declar defect viro ecclesiast the common people in Liuonia not to receiue this Sacrament at all as Gerson writeth But if our Sauiour Christ did speake the one to all both Priests and people why not the other If the one doe binde all why not the other Moreouer Saint Paul
pelles See how these Lawiers wee may say Diuines yea and Saintes doe sometimes no otherwaies wrest the holie scriptures then coblers vse to stretch out with their teeth their filthie leather or skinnes And that also which Theophylactus saith Ita exponere In Iohn 14. scripturas manifestâ— delirare est So to expound the scriptures is to dote or bee madde I might shew infinit other places which they haue most falsely expounded and applied yea and also which they haue corrupted mangled and altered which I minde hereafter somewhat to doe but this shall suffice at this present to let the reader see who they bee which follow priuate and false expositions of the Scriptures and consequently be infidels And if the author of this pamphlet or his companions can charge vs with the like then they may truly say that we haue followed priuate expositions and be Infidels But it is the vsuall manner of these men to make many vehement accusations and to bring few sound proofes Where you say that we reiect Saint Augustine and other Fathers who bring Scripture to proue prayer for the dead I answer that we refuse not the alledging of Scriptures by any but vpon good and sound reason which we will be ready to iustifie and maintaine If you thinke either Augustine in that booke de cura pro mortuis which you quote which is more full of doubts then of sound proofes out of the Scripture or other Fathers haue any plaine places of Scripture to prooue prayer for the dead you may produce them vrge them and make syllogismes of them and we will answer them But you speake many things generally and proue few particularly and pithily For vs to proue and examine by the Scriptures the expositions of the Fathers is no fault For if the spirit of God commend that good people of Berea for examining Pauls preaching by the Scriptures we cannot be worthily blamed Act. 17. 11. for examining the writings and expositions of the Fathers by the Scriptures as long as it cannot be proued that we doe otherwaies then accept the good and reiect the euill So Saint Augustine speaking of the writings of Godly Fathers saith Hoc genus literarum ab autoritate canonis disting uendum est c. This kind of writing is to be distinguished from the authority of the canon of the August epist 48. Scriptures For they be not so read as though a testimonie were so aleaged out of them that we may not thinke or iudge other-wise if they haue any where other-waies thought then the truth required For we are of the number of them which doe not disdaine to accept to our selues that which was said of the Apostle If you be otherwise minded GOD shall reueale the same vnto you The like he writeth in his 111. epistle to Fortunatianus and in his 112. epist and in his second booke against Cresconius cap. 31. 32. which I forbeare to alledge To conclude if you can produce any expositions of the ancient Fathers whom we reuerence and whose workes wee read as diligenty as you doe which we reiect if we do not shew good reason for the same let vs beare the blame and shame of it Neuerthelesse wee doe not allow euery paltry companion as you terme them either to be an expositor of Christs word or to preferre his exposition thereof before all ancient fathers Neither doe I know any man so to doe but we allow all men to read and heare GODS holy word and as they may be much edified and comforted by the things that be plaine so if they vnderstand not some places wee exhort them to do as the nobleman the Act. 8. Hierom. in epâ—taphio Fabiolae August de mo rib us eccles Catho cap. 1. Queene Candaces Treasurer did to seek to a faithful Philip that is a godly and learned man by him to seeke to haue them opened and expounded so did Fabiola other godly women to Saint Hierome So Augustine saith Scripturarum expositio ab ijs petenda est qui earum doctores se esse profitentur that is The exposition of the Scriptures is to be sought of them which professe them-selues to be doctors and teachers of them Yet with Saint Paul we say that as 1. Thess 5. 20. 21. 22. we are not to dispise prophesying that is the expounding of Gods word so we are not rashly to receiue whatsoeuer is diliuered to vs but we are to proue all and to hold that which is good and to abstaine from all apparance of euill for the eare trieth the words as the mouth tasteth meate Job 33. 3. Basil Quaest compend exptica Quaest 279. So also Saint Basil saith Quod in edulijs est sensus qualitatis vniuscuiusque edulii hoc in verbis sanctae Scripturae est intellectus Gula enim inquit cibos gustat mens verbi diiudicat That which in meates is the tast of the qualitity of euery meate the same is the vnderstanding or minde in the words of the holy Scripture For the throate saith he tasteth the meates and the mind iudgeth the words Now I will retory your argument vpon you in this manner Whosoeuer buildeth his faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the Scripture is an insidel The Papists build their their faith vpon priuate and false expositions of the scripture as I haue shewed before and can prooue in many places moe ergo the Papists be infidels And thus much to your second article of faith The Pamphlet All Protestants who are ignorant of the Greeke and Latine In the 2 edition he putteth for Latine Hebrew tongues are Infidels 3. Article WHosoeuer relieth his faith vpon the ministers credit and fidelitie hath no faith at all But all those in England who are ignorant of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues relie their faith vpon the ministers credit Ergo. All those in England who are ignorant of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues haue no faith at all The Maior is manifest because they themselues confesse that euery man may erre and doth erre neither haue they any warrant why the ministers do not erre since they constantly doe defend that whole generall councels yea and the vniuersall Catholike Church may erre and hath erred The Minor I prooue for all such Protestants ground their faith vpon the Bible translated into English the which translation they know not whether it bee true or false whether the minister Tindall for example erred or no either vpon ignorance as Broughton one of the greatest linguists among the precisians affirmeth in an Epistle dedicated to the Lords of the Councell or vpon malice to induce the people to Protestancie or to cause them to leaue the Catholike Religion as Gregoy Martin in his discouerie most pregnantly prooueth And for that all the old translations are false and the Geneuians the worst the ministers are now in moulding a new one the which will haue as great immunitie from falsity as the former were voide of
veritâ—e that is both bee subiect to semblable incertaintie These errors I say they know not and consequentlie cannot discerne a true translation from a false and therefore must needes relie their faith vpon the sillie ministers faithlesse fidelitie which conuinceth they haue no faith at all Answere IDeny the Minor or second proposition of this Syllogisme and say that wee relie not our faith vpon the Ministers credit and sidelitie but vpon the worde of GOD translated the which wee know to bee true and holie not so much for that it is by publike authoritie and generall assent of men allowed as for that it containeth most holie doctrine agreeable to true faith and Godlie life whereby any that readeth or heareth it may behold the Maiestie of Gods spirit appearing in it As for example I beleeue these sayings to be true That Iesus Christ came into this world to saue sinners that hee is the Lambe 1. Tim. 1. Iob. 1. Tit. 2. 11. of GOD which taketh away the sinnes of the world that the grace of GOD which offereth saluation to all men hath appeared and treacheth vs that wee denie vngodlinesse and worldlie lust and liue soberlie righteously and Godlie in this present world c. not for that this or that man hath translated them but because the spirit of God doth beare witnesse vnto my heart that most holie pure and diuine doctrine is contained in them And therefore to say that those which vnderstand not the Hebrew and Greeke tongues because they vse the word of God translated to them into other languages do rely their faith vpon the Ministers credit and fidelitie and haue no faith is most foolish and absurd And let the Christian reader marke and confider how this sottish reason tendeth to the discrediting not onely of vs but also of the most part of all Godly and faithfull Christians in all ages yea and to the most of the Godly Doctors Fathers of the Church who were almost al ignorant of the Hebrew tongue and some of the Greeke also The holy scriptures were translated into many tongues in the which the people of God did reade and heare them As Theodoretus writeth Hebraici vero libri non modò in Graecum idioma conuersi sunt sed in Romanam quoque Theodor. de cu. vatione Graecarum affectionum lib 5. linguam Aegyptiacam Persicam Indicam Armenicamque Scythicam adeoque Sauromaticam semelque vt dicam in linguas omnes quibus ad hanc diem nationes vtantur that is The Hebrew bookes bee translated not onely into the Greeke tongue but also into the Romaine Egyptian Persian Indian Armenian and Scythian and also the Sclauonian tongues to say at a word into all languages which the nations vse vnto this day Did the ancient faithfull Christians which read and heard the holy scriptures in these sundrie languages rely their faith vpon men that did translate them or vpon the diuine doctrine and pretious promises of God contained in them And let this cauiller shew sufficient reason why were are not either to be acquited with them or they condemned with vs. They could no more iudge of the truth of the translations then our people can yet they did to their great comfort and Godly instruction and edification reade and heare the holy scriptures grounding their faith not vpon the translators who might bee and sometimes were euill men but vpon the sound holy and heauenly doctrien therein contained Saint Hierome exhorted ladies and gentlewomen Hieron ad Gaudentium de pacatulae Inâ—â—tulae educat ad letam de institut filiae not onely to reade the scriptures themselues but also to bring vp their young daughters when they were but seuen yeares old in that holy exercise They were not able to iudge of the translations otherwaies then to discerne and perceiue that the doctrine by them deliuered was pure and holy agreeable to true faith and Godly life And euen so they that bee Godly in these daies although they hauing not the knowledge of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues cannot iudge so exactly of translations and of the truth of them as those that vnderstand them can yet they may discerne whether the translations deliuer sound and holy doctrine consonant to true faith good manners and the generall heads and principles of Christianitie or not I neede not heere aske vpon what or whome your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholikes doe rely their faith when they reade either the old vulgar Latine translation of the Remish English seeing they can no more nor better iudge of these translations whether they bee true or false then wee I do not I say aske wheron they rely their faith for it seemeth that they build not their faith so much vpon Extrauagant Ioh. 22. cum inter in glossa dist 96. satis euidenter the written word of God in the scriptures as vpon vnwritten traditions of men customes of fathers decrees of councels and especially vpon the will and pleasure of their great GOD as his owne friends call him the Pope of Rome Whose will is the rule of their faith and life If he giue a dispensation for a man to mary his owne sister as Antoninus Sum. part 3. titu 1. cap. 11. 55. quod papa summa Angelica in Papa fol. â—32 Pope Martin the fift did it is lawfull if he giue a dispensation for one to marry his sisters daughter which is as vnlawfull as the other as a late Pope gaue to the late King Philip of Spaine it is lawfull But yet if any of these counted Catholikes will pretend to build their faith vpon the Scriptures and being ignorant of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues readeth either the vulgar Latine or English Remish translation of the new Testament I would aske how he doth know whether these translations bee true or false or whether hee will say that his faith dependeth vpon the credit and fidelitie of the translator or no But I know Counc TrideÌ„t Sessi decretum 2. what they will answere that the Latine vulgar translation is allowed by the Church that is to say by the councell of Trident which representeth the Church which hath decreed the same to bee taken for authenticall in readings disputations sermons or expositions and that no man bee bold or presume vpon any pretence to reiect or refuse it Wherevnto first I say that as this decree doth allow the Latine so it doth not approue the English Now how shall an English Catholike that vnderstandeth not the Latine know whether the same bee truely translated out of the Latine or no or shall his faith here rely vpon the credit and fidelitie of the translator I would know what difference there is betweene such a one reading or hearing that translation and one of vs reading or hearing ours And why the faith of the one doth more depend on the credit and fidelity of the translator then the other Surely this difference there is that our translations
c. The inuenting of Idols and Images was the beginning of VVis 14. 2 Cor. 6. 16. 1 Ioh. 5. 21. Apoca. 9. 20. whoredome and the finding of them is the corruption of life What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols or Images Babes keepe your selues from Images The remnant of the men which were not killed by these plagues repented not of the workes of their handes that they should not worship deuills and Idols of gold and of siluer of brasse and of stone and of wood which neither can see neither heare nor goe Also they repented not of their murther and of their sorcerie neither of their fornication nor of their theft I wil for shortnes sake omit many other places of Scripture wherein Images in the worship of God are condemned and the vanitie of them liuely painted forth Now as touching the state of the Church after Christ and his Apostles it is most certaine that the Christians in Lib. 3. cap. 23. the primitiue Church neither had nor worshipped Images Eusebius writeth that Plinius secundus a Pagane writing to Traiane the Emperour a persecutor of Christians did certifie him that hee found no wickednes in the Christians but that they would not worshippe Images Origne writeth that Celsus that railer and Blasphemour of Christianity did obiect this as a fault against the Con. Celse lib. 4. Apolog. cap. 12. Christians that they had no Images Tertullian writeth thus If we worship not vaine pictures and Images that are like dead men which Kites Mise and Spiders know what they be doth not the forsaking of this knowne errour deserue rather praise then punishment Lactantius saith that God is greater then man therefore he is aboue and not below neither Lib 2. de Orig. 9. error cap 19. is he to be sought below vpon the earth but in the highestrehioÌ„ of heauen wherefore ther is no doubt but that there is no religion wheresoeuer there is an Image Clemens writeth Lib. 5. recog cap 6. thus That Serpent the Deuill vseth by others to vtter such words we to the honor of God do worship visible Images the which is most certainely false for if you would truly worship the Image of God by doing well vnto man you should in him worship the true Image of God for in euery man is the true Image of God But yet not in all the true similitude but where there is a good soule and a pure minde If therefore you would honor the Image of God wee doe shew you what is good that you do good and giue honor and reuerence vnto man who is made after the Image of God giuing meate vnto the hungry and drinke vnto the thirsty apparell vnto the naked seruice vnto the sicke hospitality vnto strangers and things necessarie vnto him that is in prison And this is that which shal be accepted as truely done vnto God And these things doe so farre forth tende vnto Gods Image and the honor thereof that he that doth them not is thought to offer iniury vnto the Image of God Therefore what honour of God is this to gâ—d after Images of stone and of woode and to worshippe as God vaine and liuelesse Images and to despise man in whom is truly the Image of God Hitherto Clement Epiphanius comming into a church and there finding a Com. 3. opem Hicronimi vaile hanging and hauing on it an Image as it were of Christ or some Saint did teare it in peeces willed them to wrap some dead body in it and not to hange such in the churches contrary to the authority of the scriptures This Epistle wherein this is contained hath the authority not onely of Epiphanius which did write it but also of Saint Hierome who did translate and alledge it against Iohn the Bishop of Ierusalem Saint Augustine commendeth that Lib. â— de ciuit dei cap. 9 learned Romaine Varro for that hee affirmed that they which ordained Images for the people both tooke away feare and brought in error And againe hee writeth of the Ibim cap. 31 same Varro in this sort Wherefore seeing that Varro did say that they did know what was God who did beleeue that hee is a soule or spirit gouerning the world and did thinke that religion might more chastly bee obserued without Images who did not see how neare hee came to truth Heare Saint Augustine affirmeth that Varro came neare vnto the truth in thinking that religion might more chastly and purely be obserued without Images then with them The same Saint Augustine writeth thus Vere mendatia c. Our fathers haue indeed worshipped lies euen Images in which is no profit Saint Ambrose sayth The De fug â—culi cap. 5. cap. 36. Church knoweth not idle formes and vaine figures Images The counsel Elibertimum decreed that Images ought not to be in the Church and that which is worshipped or adored 〈◊〉 lib. 1. a coas a. Euangel cap. 10. should not be painted â—poâ— walls I will conclude this matter o Images with an other saying of S. Augustine Sic omnine errare meruerunt quia ChristuÌ„ et Apostolos eius non in sanctis condicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesiueruÌ„t i. They haue altogither deserued to bee deceiued because they haue sought Christ and his Apostles not in the holy bookes of the scriptures but in painted walls And thus much at this time for Images expecting that this Catholike gentlewoman or some of her friends will proue by the testimony of the holy scriptures and the testimony of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles not onely the vse of them as here they say but also the horrible abuse of them such as was in Popery in running a pilgrimage to them in kneeling creeping to them in burning candles and tapers before them in offering incense and all kinde of other oblations vnto them in making them to nodde with their heads and their eyes to gogle to deceiue the simple c. This shal be as easie for them to doe as to moue mountaines As touching the crosse and pilgrimage I will for shortnesse sake write nothing requiring them by the foresayd testimonies for to proue them Now it followeth in the sayd scroole or paper I Would know whether it bee not true that Aerius was condemned an Heretike aboue these thousand yeares for denying praier for the dead and Vigilantius for denying the praiers to Saints and the Nouatianes for denying the power of the Church to forgiue sinnes and Eustathius for denying Pilgrimage to holie places and Simon Magus for denying free will and Iouiniane for affirming the marriage of Priestes all the which opinions and many moe that are now preached for Gods word haue beene these thousand yeares condemned for heresies as I am told out of bookes of Saint Ireneus Saint Ambrose Saint Augustine Saint Epiphanius Saint Hierome and other holy fathers of the primitiue Church Answere AS touching these here charged with
heresie to whom you seeke to liken vs first I answere generally that neither whatsoeuer an heretike hath holden is to be counted heresie for there hath beene no heretike but he hath held some truth nor whatsoeuer a Godly father of the church hath maintained is to be esteemed for truth and verity for it is not vnknowne that the ancient Godly fathers had their infirmities and were subiect to some errors The which although by particuler examples might be declared yet at this present I will spare them Therefore a doctrine is not simply either to be reiected because an Heritike held it nor to bee imbraced because a Godly father maintained it But if it be agreeable to the word of God it is to be receiued if it dissent from it though an Angell from heauen deliuer it wee are to refuse it But Epiph heress 75. Augu. de her cap. 53. perticulerly to come to those persons here named I doe confesse that Aerius was an Heretike in maintayning the horrible heresie of Arius wherewith Epiphanius and Augustine do charge him But whereas they did obiect vnto him the denying of praier for the dead first I say that they doe not conuince and confute him by the scriptures And therefore let this Gentlewoman or some of her fauorers performe that which they haue ommitted and plainely proue this doctrine of praying for the dead by the holie canonicall scriptures and then wee will grant the deniall of it to be an herisie and Aerius for the same to haue beene an Heritike Secondly I say that that praier for the dead which Epiphanius and Augustine do meane neither doth prooue purgatorie nor is the same which the Papists doe Heres 75. now vse Epiphanius rendring a reason of their praiets for the dead doth not say that they praied for them that they might haue remission of such sinnes as were not here forgiuen them nor to make satisfaction for their sinnes and to release them out of the paines of purgatory for the Greeke Church whereof Epiphanius was neuer to this daie beleeued purgatorie but hee giueth this reason thereof that they which bee aliue should thinke and hope that they which bee departed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conses lib. de cap. 12 c. hence do liue and are not perished but bee and liue with God but they that bee and liue with God be in heauen and not in purgatory So Saint Augustine praied for his mother and yet beleeued that shee was in heauen so Saint Ambrose praied for Theodosius the Emperor and yet assured himselfe of his saluation For these be his words of him Absolutus certamime fruitur nunc Theodosius luce perpetua c. Theodosius beeing now freed from fight enioyeth eternall light continuall tranquility and glory in assemblie of the Saints Then Theodosius was not in purgatory The ancient Church also praied for the Virgine Lituâ—g Christ Mary for the Patriarkes Prophets Apostles and Martirs whom I hope this Catholike gentlewoman will not beleeue to haue beene in purgatory And therefore that kinde of praier for the dead which in the ancient Church was vsed was rather a commemoration of them and thanksgiuing for them then a petition to deliuer them from the fained fire of purgatory and so prooueth neither pick purse purgatorie nor that popish praier for the dead which is now vsed and maintained And thus much touching Aerius You also say that you haue beene told that Vigilantius was aboue a thousand yeares past condemned for an Hetike for denying praier vnto Saints But take heede you bee not ouer oredulous lightly to beleeue whatsoeuer a prating Priest or iugling Iesuite doth tell you lest you be deceiued as Eua was You should haue demanded how and where it doth appeare that Vigilantius was condemned for an Heritike for denying praier vnto Saintes Neither Epiphanius nor Augustine in their bookes of heresies doe condemne him or make mention of him Indeede Saint Hierome did write a bitter booke against him which I haue twise read ouer Yet cannot I perceiue that hee chargeth him with denying praier vnto Saintes neither doth Hierome make any defence thereof but seemeth rather to maintaine the contrary Affirming in these word that Martires are not to be worshipped Quis O insanum Hier. Contra. Vilgilani caput Mâ—rtires aliquando adorauit 1. For who oh thou foolish head at any time hath worshipped Mâ—rtires Indeede I confesse that Vigilantius denied that the Saints in heauen praied for vs one earth the which Saint Hierome aloweth But it is one thing for the Saints in heauen to pray for vs and another for vs to pray vnto them Though the former could bee prooued as by the holy scriptures it cannot yet the other is not there vpon to be inferred or graunted Lastly I say that if Vigilantius whom many Bishoppes of his time did fauour did deny praier to Saints yet vntill you haue effectually both confuted my reasons afore set downe and proued your doctrine by the scriptures wee will neither condemne it for Heresie nor count him therefore an Heretike As touching the Nouatian heretikes who denied repentance to them that after baptisme did fall wee abhorre their heresie and wish that the papists were as free from the poyson of them as we be The Nouatians gloried in their merites and so doe the Papists The Nouatians condemned second marriages and so doe Papistes in some in that one may not bee a priest that hath beene twise married The Nouatians re-baptised those that after Baptisme did fall and publikely offend and so doe papists in corners baptise such as haue beene baptized in our Churches which is an error condemned aboue a thousand yeares agoe You would haue vs to bee like Eustathius in denying pilgrimages to holy places But it will appeare that wee bee as vnlike as the papists bee like vnto him and in sundrie points doe ioyne hand in hand with him Sozomenus writeth of him that he was Monasticae Conuersationis Lib. 3 cap. 14. author 1. An author of Monastical life that is of Monkery And both there in an Epistle or preface before the CouÌ„sel called Gangrense in the which Eustathius and his doings Tom. 1. cons were condemned hee is charged with these things First that he had caused wiues to leaue their husbands and professe chastity wherevpon husbands and wiues sometimes fell into whoredome Secondly that dispising common vsuall garments he tooke new and strange habits Thirdly he caused seruants vnder a pretence of religion to forsake their Maisters and children their parents And women vppon the same pretence to sheare and cut of their haire Lastly that Priestes which were married were to bee despised and the Sacraments which they ministred were not to be touched Against this last error the fore-said Councell thus decreed Si quis cernit presbiterum coniugatum c. i. If Concil Gang. cap. 4. Tom. 1. Consil any make difference of a Priest that is married as though by