appertayneth be not according to the letter and in common speech called by that name Let him then vnderstand proportionably that the truth of the name of Catholikes belongeth not to the Romish faction who challenge to themselues as the Iewes did to haue gotten by succession the possession of the name and will be commonly so called but it belongeth to vs who though we vse not the word being growen to ill meaning by their abuse yet do maintayne one and the same truth with them who first were called by that name In a word as there is a double sense in the one so is there also in the other and I doe not so hoppe from one sense to another in the one but that I shew a iust â—orrespondence betwixt them both W. BISHOP §. 3. BVt and it please you the Protestants haue the kernell of the name Catholike and we but the shell Why doe they then so bitterly inueigh against it why are they not more willing to extoll and magnifie that renowmed title being of such ancient Nobility Twenty pound to a peny that what face soeuer he set on it yet in his heart he meruailously feareth the contrary himselfe If that faith and religion only be Catholike and Vniuersall as he acknowledgeth that hath euer beene and is also spread ouer all the world and shall continue to the worlds end then surely their religion cannot be Catholike euen by the vniforme confession of themselues who generally acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither the Papacy did so domineer all the world ouer that not a man of their religion was to be found in any corner of the world that durst peepe out his head to contradict it Could there be any Church of theirs then when there was not one Pastor and flocke of their religion though neuer so small in any one Countrey And euen now when their Gospell is at the hottest hath it spread it selfe all the world ouer is it receiued in Italie Spaine Greece Afrike or Asia or carried into the Indians nothing lesse They cannot then call themselues Catholikes after the sincere and ancient acceptation of that name which is as himselfe hath often repeated out of S. Augustine Quia communicant Ecclesiae to to or be diffusae Because they communicate in fellowship of faith with the Church spread ouer all the world They must therefore notwithstanding M. Abbots vaine bragges be content with the shell and leaue the kernell to vs who doe embrace the same faith that is dilated all Countries ouer yea they must be contented to walke in the foote-steps of their fore-fathers the Donatists euen according to M. Abbots explication and flie from the vniuersality of faith and communion of the Church spread all the world ouer vnto the perfection of their doctrine which is neuerthelesse more absurd and further from the true signification of the word Catholike then the Donatists shift was of fulnesse of Sacraments and obseruation of all Gods Commandements as hath beene already declared But let vs heare how clearely and substantially he will at length proue their Church to be Catholike R. ABBOT IT pleaseth vs very well M. Bishop that we haue the kernell of the name of Catholikes and in the meane time because your importunity so requireth we are content to leaue the shell to you The kernell serueth vs to feede vpon and it is very tastfull to vs but you haue berayed the shell and therefore we haue no care to meddle with it Our inueighing against it is no otherwise but in respect of your abuse let it be restored to his true vse and we shall be ready to extoll it and where it is so we doe so As for your wager M. Bishop of twenty pound to a peny you haue lost it and you know that you haue lost it because you see that I haue set no other face vpon the matter then by sufficient proofs I haue made good But here he taketh in hand to bereaue vs of the kernell because our faith and religion was neuer Catholike that is was neuer spred ouer the whole world Whereas I on the other side doe tell him that it is only our religion which appeareth to haue beene absolutely spred ouer all the word and none but ours For our religion is no more nor other then is contained in the Gospels and Epistles of the Apostles and because we know that the religion there set downe was spred ouer all the world therefore we cannot doubt but that our religion is that that was spred ouer all the world and though Apostasie hath ouershadowed it yet hath euer since continued in the world As for that which he alleageth to the contrary it is no vniforme confession of ours but a deformed lye of his owne We doe not acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither there was not a man of our religion to be found in the world The Papacy indeede did mightily domineer accordingly as it was foretold but yet it could neuer so preuaile to the extirpation of our religion but that euen in the middest of the Papacy it hath continued still yea thousands and hundred thousands as by their owne stories appeareth haue beene murthered and slaine for the profession thereof Yea in the very religion of Popery our religion hath continued for what is Popery but a doctrine compounded of our religion and their owne deuice Our religion hath serued them for a foundation whereupon to build not only their wood and hay and stubble but also the wild-fire and poison of their idolatries and damnable heresies which without the pretence and colour of our religion Christian eares would haue detested and abhorred but therefore dreaded them not because they saw them cloaked with shew of still retaining that which we professe They durst not deny those Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament which our religion receiueth but to serue their turne they added other bookes not inspired of God to be notwithstanding of like authority with those They acknowledged the Lords praier the articles of the Creede the ten Commandements which we receiue as principles of our religion but they frustrated them by a superstitious custome brought in of reciting them like a charme in an vnknowen tongue They haue neuer denyed the two Sacraments which we teach which were fast rooted in Christian profession but they haue added to them other fiue and made them vp seuen They vsed no other substantiall forme of Baptisme then we doe only they prophaned it with sundry polluted and corrupt ceremonies of humane deuice In their Masse and Sacrament of the Altar the ground of all is that that we doe according to the institution of Christ and example of the primitiue Church They bring bread and wine to the Lords table they sanctifie or consecrate the same with the words of Christ when and where they list they administer the same to the people and all this they take vpon them to doe in remembrance of the Passion Death and
him bring in Iacob 5. v. 14. the Priests of the Church and let them pray ouer them anoiling them with Oile in the name of our Lord c. Confesse therefore your sinnes one to Ibidem 16. another These and an hundred more plaine texts recorded in that fountaine of life wherein our Catholike Roman doctrine is deliuered in expresse tearmes to wit Thereall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament That Priests haue power to pardon sinnes That Christ built his Church vpon S. Peter That good workes doe in iustice deserue eternall life That we are iustified not by faith alone but also by good workes That in extremity of sicknesse wee must call for the Priest to anoile vs with holy Oile That we must confesse our sinnes not to God alone but also vnto men these and diuers such like heads of our Catholike faith formally set downe in holy Scripture the Protestants will not beleeue though they bee written in Gods word neuer so expresly but doe ransacke all the corners of their wits to deuise some â—dde shift or other how to flie from the euidence of them Whereupon I conclude that they doe not receiue all the written word though they professe neuer so much to allow of all the bookes of Canâ—nicall Scripture For the written word of God consisteth Lib. 2. de Trinitate ad Const not in the reading but in the vnderstanding as S. Hierome testifieth that is it doth not consist in the bare letter of it but in the letter and true sense and meaning ioyned togither the letter being as the body of Scripture and the right vnderstanding of it the soule spirit and life thereof he therefore that taketh not the written word in the true sense but swarueth from the sincere interpretation of it cannot be truly said to receiue the written word as a good Christian ought to doe Seeing then that the Protestants and all other sectaries doe not receiue the holy Scriptures according vnto the most ancient and best learned Doctors exposition they may most iustly be denyed to receiue the sacred written word of God at all though they seeme neuer so much to approue all the Bookes Verses and Letters of it which is plainly proued by S. Hierome vpon the first Chapter to the Galathians R. ABBOT I Haue noted a §. â— before in this Chapter that St. Austin faith of the Prophets and faithfull of the people of the Iewes that though not in name yet in deede they were Christians as we are As they were Christians then with vs so are we now Iewes with them not according to M. Bishops vnderstanding of the name of Iewes to whom I may well say as Austin said to Iulian the Pelagian b August coÌ„â— Iulian. l. 4. c. 3. Cùm insana dicis rides phrenetico es similis When thou speakest madly and laughest thou art like to a frantike Bedlem but according to the Apostles construction thereof c Rom. 2. 29. He is a Iew which is one within and d Phil. 3. 3. we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit and reioyce in Christ Iesus and haue no confidence in the flesh We must be Iewes by vnity of faith with them as they were Christians with vs because they with vs and wee with them make but one body and one Church whereof though there be diuers Sacraments yet there is but one faith from the beginning to the end receiued first by the Patriarches written afterwards by the Prophets written againe more clearly by the Apostles so that e Ephes 2. 20. vpon the foundation not foundations but one foundation because one euen one written doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets the houshold of God are built and our faith resteth wholly thereupon I haue walked no rounds I haue broken through no brakes of thornes but haue kept a direct and euen way and haue so strongly builded all this as that I scorne M. Bishops poore paper-shot as much too weake to throw it downe To him I know these things are rounds and mazes he knoweth not which way to get out of them they are brakes of thornes he lyeth fast tyed in them God giue him grace to yeeld to that which he seeth himselfe vnable to reproue He is very angry it seemeth as touching the last point that I should say that the Protestants receiue and beleeue all the written word He saith that therein I begge that which is principally in question and thinketh that I haue little wit or iudgement to thinke that they would freely grant me that But our vsage and debating of questions with them is sufficient to put that out of question We vse the Scriptures our selues we translate them for common vse we reade and expound them publikely in our Churches we exhort men to reade them priuately in their houses wee instruct them to receiue no doctrine but what they see there wee make the same written word the soueraigne Iudge of all our controuersies wee defend the authority and sufficiency thereof against the impeachments and disgraces which Papists haue cast vpon it What may we doe more to make M. Bishop beleeue that we receiue and beleeue the written word Surely if I tell him that the Sunne shineth at noone day he will not beleeue it if it seeme to him to sound any thing against the Pope But he will giue instance to proue that we doe not so first for that we reiect diuers bookes of the old Testament Wherein he saith vntruly for the bookes of the old Testament are the bookes of Moses and the Prophets the Psalmes f August coÌ„t Gaudent lib 2. cap. 23. Non habent Judaei sicut legem Prophetas Psalmos quibus Dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis To which saith Austin our Lord Iesus gaue testimony as his witnesses of which we reiect none the other bookes that are adioyned to these we doe not reiect but we reade them and commend them yea we say as much of them as M. Bishop vouchsafeth to say of Pauls Epistles and the rest that they contayne many most diuine and rare instructions but yet we giue them no authority for confirmation of matters of faith because Christ and his Apostles haue giuen no testimony or witnesse of them and the primitiue Church in that respect hath expresly disclaimed them as I haue shewed at large g Of Traditions sect 17. before and resteth hereafter in this booke to bee shewed againe Secondly he bringeth sundry texts of the new Testament to proue that we doe not rightly vnderstand and beleeue all that is written in Gods word wherein he saith their Catholike Roman doctrine is deliuered in expresse termes First to proue the reall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament he citeth the wordes This is my body which shall be giuen for you c. But if the Romish doctrine be here deliuered in expresse termes how is it that their owne Scotus saith that
plainly set downe in Scripture are found all those things which containe faith and conuersation of life Yea he saith further that a Idem de vtilit cred cap. 6. Planè ita modificata vt nemo inde baurire non possit quod sibi satis est si modò ad bauriendum deuotè ac piè vt vera religio poscit accedat the doctrine of the Scripture is so tempered as that there is no man but may draw from thence that that is sufficient for him if he come to draw with deuotion and piety as true religion requireth him to doe Hereto adde how he vseth the wordes of the Apostle where to he alludeth in the sentence by me cited in his disputing against the Donatists b Idem de vnit Eccl. c. 11. 12. Quisquis aliud Euangelizauerit anathemâ— sit Aliud autem euangelizat qui perijsse dicit de câ—tâ—ro mudo Ecclesiam in parte Donati in sola Asrica reâ—nansisse dicit Ergo anathema sit Aut legat miâ—i hoc in scripturis sanctis noÌ„ sit anathema Whosoeuer preacheth any other thing accursed be he but he preacheth another thing who saith that the Church is perished out of the whole world and is remaining only in the Donatists therefore accursed be he or else let him reade it to me in the holy Scriptures that he may not be accursed Now then if by St. Austins iudgement there be found in Scripture all things belonging to faith and manners and there be no godly man but may draw from thence that that is sufficient for him if he be to be holden accursed that preacheth that which he cannot reade to vs out of the holy Scriptures then it appeareth that M. Bishop dealeth falsly in expounding the wordes of Austin and that they serue very fully to that purpose and meaning whereto I alleaged them and whereto without any ambiguity at all they most plainly sound But because we haue here in hand to informe the Roman Catholike I will conclude this place with the censure of a Roman Bishop Gregory the first who calleth c Gregor in 1. Reg. l. 2. c. 3. Quid cor animam Dei â—â—si sacram eius scripturam accipinâ— the holy Scripture the heart and soule of God and telleth vs that d Idem Moral l. 16. c. 16. Per cam Deus loquitur omne quod vult by it God speaketh all his will or all that he requireth and that so as that e Ibid. l. 18. c. 14. Eos ad sacrae authoritatis paginas vocat vt si vere loqui desiderent inde sumere debeant quid loquantur Qui ad verae praedicationis verba se praeparat necesse â—st vt causarum origines à sacris paginis sumat vt omne quod loquitur ad diuinae authoritatis sundamentum reuocet atque in câ— aedificium locutionis suae â—irmet he that desireth to speake or preach iruly must take from thence that which he speaketh and set â—h the grounds of his matters out of the sacred bookes that he may bring all that he speaketh to the foundation of diuine authority and thereupon settle the building of his speech He saith againe that f IdeÌ„ in Cant. c. 5. Sancti viri se consilijs Scripturae ex toto addicunt vt videâ—icet nihil agant nisi quod ex responsâ— Scripturarum audiunt c. Quia de quibuscunque scrupuliâ— in Scripturis consilium quaeritur fine minâ—ratione de omnibus ad plenum inuenitur holy men doe wholly addict themselues to the counsels or directions of the Scripture namely so as to doe nothing but what they heare by answere of the Scriptures because of whatsoeuer doubts aduise is sought for in the Scriptures namely concerning matters of faith and godlinesse it is there fully found of all things without exception and g Idem in Ezech. hom 15. Vniuersa nostra munitio in saâ—ro â—lâ—quâ—o cominetur all our munition or armour to wit against our ghostly enemies yea h Ibid. hom 9. In hâ—â— volumine cuncta quâ—â—dificant omniâ— qu◠〈…〉 diunt scripta contiâ—entur all things that doe â—difie all things that doe instruct are contained therein In all which speeches if Gregory say truth then it must stand good which I haue set downe that all our faith and religion is contained in the Scriptures and neither may the preacher speake nor the hearer receiue any thing that hath not confirmation and proofe out of the booke of God W. BISHOP §. 7. MAster Abbot hauing in few lines runne ouer foure large questions to wit first That the Prophets and Patriarks beleeued no principall points of the Roman faith secondly that Christ deliuered nothing but what the Iewes before hand beleeued thirdly that the Apostles preached the same and no other to the Gentiles fourthly that whatsoeuer they preached they afterwards wrote he fiftly addâ—th that the Protestants receiue and beleeue all the written word Whence he will haue it to follow finally that the Protestants are very good Iewes and doe iumpe iust with them in all articles of faith and consequently are true Catholikes so that in M. Abbots reckoning before you can be a true Protestant Catholike you must first become a good honest Iew. Behold what a round this man is driuen to walke and how many brakes of thâ—rnes he is forced to breake through ere he can come to make any shew of proofe that the Protestants are Catholikes the matter is so improbable I haue already declared how false euery one of his former foure propositions be the fift is as vntrue and more if more may be then any of the other and he plaies the sophister in it egregiously to beggâ— that which is principally in question How proues he that Protestants receiue and beleeue all the written word hath he so little wit and iudgement as to thinke that we would freely grant him that for to omit that they receiue not but reiect diuers bookes of the old Testament because they were not in the Canon of the Iewes or doubted of by some in the primitiue Church by which reason they might refuse as many of the new doe they rightly vnderstand and beleeue truly all that is written in that blessed booke of Gods word nothing lesse Doe they giue credit to our Sauiour â—esus Christ himselfe telling them This is my Mat. 26. 27. 28. Body that shall be broken for you this is my Bloud that shall be shedde for you Whose sinnes ye shall Ioh. 20. v. 23. forgiue on earth shall be forgiuen in heauen Thou Math. 16. v. 18. art Peter and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church c. and the gaâ—es of hell shall not preuaile against it Call the worke-men that had laboured in Math. â—0 v. 8. his vine-yard and pay them their hire Doe you see Iacob 2. v. 24. that by workes a man is iustified and not by faith only Is any man sicke among you let
rest of the Bishops there And that Councels held it not anâ—â—atter of necessity to haue the confirmation of the Bishop of Rome it is manifest both by the African Councell excluding his authority from amongst them as hath beene before shewed and by the Councell of k Chalcedon which notwithstanding the opposition of the l Concil Chalced. Act. 16. Contradictio nostra his gestis inhâ—reat c. Jâ—dices dixerunt Quod interlocuti sumus tota Synoduâ— approbauit Legates of the Bishop of Rome and l Leo Epist 51. 52. his owne reclayming thereto yet decreed to the Church of Constantinople equality of priuiledges with the Church of Rome saue only that the Bishop of Rome had precedence and priority of place as before also is declared As for M. Bishops other note it is a vaine and fond presumption that all heresies sprung vp since the Apostles daies haue opposed themselues against the Roman Sea and haue beene by it finally ouerthrowne The Church of Rome hath had nothing singular in this behalfe Yea many heresies there haue beene that haue more bent themselues against other Churches then against the Church of Rome neither hath the Church of Rome done so much in the confounding of them as other Churches haue done But yet he bringeth Austin affirming for him that that chaire obtained the top of authority heretikes in vaine barking round about it Where he dealeth very vnhonestly in falsifying the wordes of Austin who in that whole booke by him cited neuer once nameth the Roman Church or chaire nor saith any thing that may be auouched to haue any speciall reference or respect thereto Of the Catholike or vniuersall Church so apparantly to bee discerned from all hereticall combinations St. Austin there saith m Aug. de vtilit credendi c. 17. Dubitabimus nos eius Ecclesiae condere gremio quae vsque ad confessionâ—m generis humani ab Apostolica sede per successio nes Episcoporum frustra hareticis circumlairantibus c. culmâ—n authoritatis obtinuit Shall we doubt to repose our selues in the bosome of that Church which euen by the confession of mankinde from the Apostles sitting or time when the Apostles sate by successions of Bishops hath obtained a height of authority Heretikes in vaine barking round about c. In the whole processe of that booke from the beginning to this place which is almost the very end he speaketh generally of the Catholike Church without relation to any particular Church and therefore vnlikely it is that his wordes here should beare any speciall application to the Church of Rome M. Bishop will say that I mistranslate the wordes ab Apostolica sede and that Apostolica sedes is there meant the Apostolike Sea that is the Roman Church But he must giue vs leaue to vnderstand the meaning of St. Austins wordes by St. Austin himselfe who in this cause so often signifieth by that phrase of speech the time wherein the Apostles themselues sate that is wherein they liued and occupied the roomes of teaching and gouerning the Church Thus he saith in another place n Aug. cont Faust Manich. lib. 11. cap. 2. Vides in hac re quid Ecclesiae Catholicae valeat authoritas quae ab ipsis fundatissimis sedibus Apostolorum vsque ad hodiernum diem succedentium sibimet Episcoporum lot populorum consensione firmatur Thou seest how much the authority of the Catholike Church herein auaileth which from the most surely founded seates of the Apostles vntill this day that is from the time that the seates of the Apostles were most surely founded vntill this day by ranke of Bishops succeeding one another and by the consent of so many peoples is confirmed And againe o Ibid. lib. 28. cap. 2. Vniuersa Ecclesia ab Apostolicis sedibus vsque ad praesentes Episcopos certa successione perducta The vniuersall Church saith he which is deriued by certaine succession from the seates of the Apostles that is from the time that the Apostles sate vnto the Bishops that now are And in another place p Ibid. lib. 33. cap. 9. Eam sequamini que ab ipsius praesentiae Christi tempoâ—ibus per dispensationes Apostolorum 〈◊〉 ab corum â—edibus successiones Episcoporum vsque ad haec tempora peruenit Follow that authority which hath come from the time of the presence of Christ himselfe by the ministery of the Apostles and by other successions of Bishops from their seates from the time wherein they sate vntill this time Which when hee will in more proper wordes expresse hee speaketh thus q Ibid. lib 28. cap. 4. Ecclesia quae ab ipsius Matthaei temporibus vsque ad hoc tempus certa successionum scrie declaratur The Church which from the very time of Matthew vntill this time by certaine ranke of successions is declared r Ibid. lib. 32. cap. 19. Euangelica authoritas ab Apostolorum temporibus vsque ad nostra tempora per successiones certissimas commendata The authority of the Gospell commended by most certaine successions from the time of the Apostles vntill our times And in another place Å¿ Contra Aduers leg Prophet lib. 1. cap. 20. Ecclesia quae ab illorum Apostolorum temporibus per Episcoporum successiones certissimas vsque ad nostra deinceps tempora perseuerat The Church which from the times of the Apostles by most certaine successions of Bishops continueth to our times and so forward Now then sith all these speeches as by conference appeareth serue to expresse only one and the same thing it is plaine that St. Austin when hee said ab Apostolica sede meant nothing else but from the sitting that is from the age and time of the Apostles Of the Apostles I say though he speake in the singular number because hee nameth from thence not a succession as speaking of one but successions as resâ—rting himselfe to those many seates wherein Bishops had succeeded from the time of the Apostles And though wee doe vnderstand it of one Apostle St. Peter as elsewhere he saith t Cont. Epist fundam cap. 4. Tenet ab ipsa ede Petri vsque ad praesentem Episcopâ—tum successio Sacerdotum The succession of Bishops from the very seate of Peter from the very time when Peter sate vntill the Bishopricke that now is holdeth me in the Catholike Church yet doth there nothing hereby follow more to the Church of Rome then to the Church of Antioch where Peter sate as well as he did at Rome and where there had beene Bishops succeeding him vntill that time In a word let M. Bishop take those wordes as hee will yet is there nothing therein to be seene concerning the Church of Rome but only that as the principall Church and specially 〈◊〉 these Westerne parts it serued him most conueniently for instance of the succession which hee pleaded but as for the height or toppe of authority there spoken of it belongeth to
to that order To offer a sinne offering for the multitude it was agreeable to the law and therefore we may well presume that he did so and cannot but take that which he did to be intended so rather then of that whereof the law commanded nothing nor example is there found of any that did the like But the historian not content to set downe the narration of this matter simply as it seemeth hee found it in the former storie which he followed taketh vpon him to giue his iudgement of it and maketh thereof construction according to his owne conceipt as if Iudas had offered for the dead in respect that hee beleeued that they should rise againe when as indeede nothing appeared to that effect And thus hee afterwards giueth his censure of the deede of p 2. Macca 14. 37. c. Razis in killing himselfe giuing approofe and commendation thereof so that by his authority we may as well argue that it is lawfull for a man to kill himselfe as that it is lawfull to make prayers and offerings for the dead Now M. Bishop knowing well our exception against the bookes of Maccabees that they are not Canonicall Scripture and therefore are vnsufficient to giue vs warrant of any point of faith preoccupateth this obiection and telleth vs that it is needlesse to proue the bookes of the Maccabees to be Canonicall Scripture and that it serueth this turne that they be taken for a graue history Very vnlearnedly and childishly as though euery graue history were sufficient to giue vs information in points of faith and as though by the commendation of the fact of Razis it did not appeare that he did not greatly deserue with vs the commendation of a graue historian who know not so much as a graue Heathen Philosopher did know Pythagoras by name from whom Tully learned it that q Tull de Senect Vetat Pythagoraâ— iniussu imperatoris id est Dei de praesidio statione vitae decedere Et Tuscul quaest l. 1. Vetat dominans ille in nobis Deus iniussu hinc nos suo demigrare it is forbidden vs of God but only at his call and bidding to goe out of this life and therefore that it is not lawfull for a man at his owne will to make away himselfe As for our allowing of those Apocryphall bookes to be read for instruction of manners what is it to the warranting of matters of faith neither doe we by that allowance giue them such authority as if euery thing which they say in that behalfe were to be approued but only acknowledge them as contayning for the most part very not able instructions and very profitable to that end which yet must all haue authority from those bookes which by due testimony we haue receiued to be the certaine and vndoubted word of God What the Iewes doe at this day it skilleth not so long as from their law they haue no rule for that they do We know they haue now many superstitions amongst them whereof their example can bee no warrant to vs that wee should thereupon presume to doe the same To the eighth point by me alleaged They made no pilgrimages to Reliques or dead mens bones he answereth that the Iewes were bound to goe as it were in pilgrimage at three solemne feasts yearly to one special place which God should choose for his seruice Where marke I pray thee how when I speake of going in pilgrimage he answereth me of going as it were in pilgrimage and where I speake of going to reliques and dead mens bones he telleth me of going to the Temple of God What accord haue these one with the other who would trouble himselfe to giue answere to an absurd man that fooleth and trifleth in this sort As much is it to the purpose which he alleageth that r 2. Kings 13. vers 21. a dead man buried in the graue of Elizeus vpon the touching of his bones reuiued and liued againe Be it so but doth he reade that hereupon there was euer any pilgrimage vsed to the bones of Elizeus or doth he finde that they who carryed the body to be buried did purposely goe on pilgrimage to the sepulcher of Elizeus as thinking to receiue any benefit thereby Surely they did casually what they did they saw enimies approching and for hast they cast the dead man into Elizeus graue It pleased God to shew that miracle once only for that time to confirme that which had beene taught by his seruant Elizeus but neither any before by any other example nor any after by this example learned to hunt after dead mens bones to receiue any health or comfort by them We can finde no pilgrimage M. Bishop in this storie because here was no pilgrimage nor any was hence learned to the bones of Elizeus As barely and coldly dealeth he in the last point where I say They knew no shrift nor absolution They were not wholly vnacquainted saith he with some kinde of shrift and absolution Marke how faintly the man speaketh some kinde of shrift he saith and againe they were not wholly vnacquainted with it They were not acquainted with shrift but yet they were not wholly vnacquainted with some kind of shâ—ift But it is Popish shrift and absolution that we require whereby the penitent is taught to tell in the eare of the Priest all his sinnes particularly and thereupon to receiue absolution and iniunction of penance to be performed afterwards Which if it be of so great vse and necessity as they pretend now we must thinke it was likewise behouefull and necessary then or if they could then be well without it there is no cause to thinke it so religious and necessary now Speake out M. Bishop deale plainly with vs are yee able to tell vs any tidings of it No more forsooth but this they were not wholly vnacquainted with some kinde of shrift and absolution But what was that kinde They were charged saith he to confesse their sinnes which they had committed And is that all We acknowledge the same charge to belong to vs we confesse our sins to God both publikely and priuately in publike trespasses we require confession to be made to the Church of God in priuate griefs of conscience we perswade and commend the disclosing of the wound for aduice and comfort to the Minister of God but what is all this to Popish shrift Againe he saith they were to bring to the Priest a prescribed sacrifice to be offered for their pardon and absolution Of the sacrifice we finde somewhat and we finde Gods promise that Å¿ Leuit. 4. 20. the sinne should be forgiuen and we finde the Priest directed to t Num. 6. 23. pray for them but that the Priest gaue absolution vpon auricular confession or inioyned penance to any party absolued we can finde nothing Yea but the leapers by the law were bound to present themselues to the Priests and were by them declared such or purged
That we are not to imitate our fore-fathers descendeth to the subsequent to wit That his Maiesties Progenitours Kings of England and Scotland were not of our Roman faith which he will proue hereafter at more leasure that is to say neuer For he doth not deny but that the religious and holy man Augustine sent into our country by Gregory the Great Bishop of Rome to conuert our Ancestours the Saxons and English to the Christian faith did then teach the same Roman faith which we now professe so that aboue this thousand yeares by his owne confession his Maiesties Progenitours haue beene of our Catholike Roman faith and religion and very few Kings now liuing I weene can deriue their pedegree much further Afterward he doth rake out of the chanels of Bale Iewel Hollinshead and such like Page 198. late partiall writers which any man not past all care of his reputation would be ashamed to cite for sufficient witnesses in matters of controuersie wherein they themselues were parties that there was great disagreement betweene Augustine the Italian Monke as he speaketh and the Churches of England and Scotland whereas venerable Bede a most approued authour and neare vnto those times who did as most diligently trace out those matters so record them most faithfully he I say whose authority is sufficient to put downe an hundreth late writers interessed in the cause affirmeth that there was no variance betwixt them in any one article of faith but only in some few points of ceremonie namely in these two Vpon what day the feast of Easter was to be kept Beda lib. 2. histor cap. 2. and about the rites of Baptisme For S. Augustine offered them to beare with all other their different rites if they would yeeld vnto him in these two points Vt Pascha suo tempore celebretis That yee would keepe Easter-day at the due time appointed by the Councell of Nice and minister the Sacrament of Baptisme after Euseb in vita Const lib. 3. 17. Epiphan lib. 3. Haeres 70. the manner of the Roman Apostolike Church And concerning these two points who can thinke but that the Sacrament of Baptisme was like to be administred in those daies in the most renowmed City of Rome after a more decent and deuout manner then among the Britans that liued in a corner of the world Now for the other of keeping the feast of Easter the fourteenth day of the first Moone with the Iewes It was many yeares before condemned in the first most famous generall Councell of Nice and therefore it cannot be denyed but that those Britans were either very ignorant in the Canons of the Church if they knew not so solemne a decree or else too too contentious and wilfull in refusing to yeeld vnto it A third clause was added by S Augustine that the Britans would ioyne with him and his fellowes Beda ibidem in preaching the word of God vnto the English nation which also argueth yet more strongly that they agreed together in all articles of faith or else they would not haue required their helpe in instructing others in matters of faith And this is not only registred by S. Bede that holy Historiographer but also reported by their owne late writers Hollinshead and * M. Godwine Volum 1. page 103. * Page 6. in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England S. Bede also witnesseth further in the place aboue said that the same Britan Christians euen then confessed that they did perceiue that to be the true way of iustice which Augustine did preach Furthermore the principall Preachers and most godly men that liued not long before S. Augustines arriuall among the Britans as namely S. Dulcitius and S. Dauid were brought vp at Rome and one of them the Popes Legate too as the aduersaries Iohn Bale in their liues themselues confesse Whereupon it followeth clearely that not only for these later thousand yeares but also in the former hundreths all his Maiesties Ancestors both English and Britans embraced and maintayned the same Catholike Roman faith which we now doe R. ABBOT MAster Bishop kindly threapeth vpon me that I denie not but that Austin the Monke sent hither by Gregory Bishop of Rome did then teach the same Roman faith that they now professe whereas I doe not only deny it to be so but also doe bring a Answ to the Epistle to the King sect 31. diuers instances to proue directly that it is not so Of those diuers let one only here suffice The religion brought in by Austin the Monke continuing here till the time of Charles the Great though it approued the hauing of Images yet condemned the second Nicene Councell for that it approued the worshipping of them The thing by Roger Houeden is thus reported that b Roger. Houeden Annal. p. 1. Anno 792. Carolê° Rex FraÌ„corum misit Synâ—dalem librum ad Britanniam sibi à Constantinopoli directum in quo libro beu proâ— dolor multa inconuenientia verâ— fidei coÌ„traria reperiebantur maximè quòd penè â—mnium Orientalium Doctorum non minus quà m trecentorum vel â—o amplius Episcoporum â—nanima assertione confirâ—atum fuerit Imagines adorari debere quod omninò Ecclesia Dei execratur Contra quod scripsit Albinus EpistolaÌ„â—x authoritate diuinarum Scripturarum mirabilitèr affirmataÌ„ illamque cum â—odâ—m libâ—o ex person 1 Episcoporum ac Principli nostro 〈…〉 â—rancorum 〈…〉 t. in the yeare 792. Charles the King of France sent ouer into Britaine a synodall booke or booke of a Councell directed to him from Constantinople in which booke alas for woe many things were found inconuenient and contrary to true faith specially for that by agreement of all the Easterne Doctors no lesse then three hundred Bishops and more it was decreed that Images should be worshipped which thing the Church of God wholly accurseth Against which saith he Albinus wrote an Epistle wonderfully strengthened by authority of holy Scriptures and brought it together with the booke to the King of France in the name or behalfe of our Bishops and Peeres The Roman faith which Austin brought condemned that Nicene Councell Tho Roman faith which M. Bishop bringeth approueth that Councell for so hath he done in his c Sect. 12. Epistle to the King Therefore the Roman faith which M. Bishop bringeth is not now the same that Austin brought He cannot doubt but that Austin being sent hither by Gregory did teach the same faith here which Gregory himselfe taught at Rome But the faith which Gregory taught at Rome shall be shewed if God will in this booke in many particulars to haue beene contrary to that faith that is now taught from Rome As for our writers Bale Iewell Hollinshead and such like I cite them not as sufficient witnesses in matters of controuersie as he vainly cauilleth but I name them only as recording matters of history which they haue taken out of former stories and writers when mine owne Library
of that that we say that the best worke of the righteous man is stained with sinne you conclude Therefore as good to leaue all vndone as to doe any therefore all men are bound vnder paine of damnation neuer to doe any good deede I doe but only name those worthy disputes of yours referring the Reader to their proper places to see further the absurd inconsequence and vanity of them I might goe along your questions of that part and put you in minde of a great number of such illations but I will content my selfe to name an argument or two in the last only To proue the worshipping of Images e Of Images sect 16. you alleage out of the Psalme Cast downe your selues before his foote-stoole and conclude that much more Images may be worshipped Againe to proue that the Arke was worshipped you tell vs First none but the high Priest might come into the place where it was and it was carried before the campe with great solemnity when they were to fight against the Philistines they had great confidence in the presence of the Arke the Bethshamites were slaine for looking into it Oza was smitten of God for touching it You propound first that by these things it is euident that the Arke was worshipped and when you haue set them downe as it were to make your selfe ridiculous you demand Doth not all this conuince in what reuerence the Arke was had Anone f Sect. 17. after for confirmation of the same point that Images are holy and to be reuerenced you alleage that the place where Moses stood was holy ground that daies were called holy and worshipfull that the Priests Vestiments were holy from which wee wonder how you should dreame to deriue that conclusion which you intend Some man will haply excuse the matter that being towards the end of your booke you had spent your wits and knew not well what you said which we would easily admit but that we see that hauing refreshed your wits againe your arguments in this booke are found to be of the same stampe I require example out of the old Testament for the worshipping of Images and you answere that g Chap. 4. §. 3. the hauing of them in the Tabernacle and the Temple where it was neuer thought lawfull to set vp the Image of a man but only the Cheâ—ubins to vs vnknowen what they were and the pictures of Lyons and Buls and Palme trees and Flowers for garnishing the house and the sentence of the Psalmist Adore yee his foote-stoole and many such places and resemblances doe very strongly argue that Images are to be worshipped To proue the profession of Monkery amongst the Iewes you tell vs out of Iosephus of the Essees that were amongst them who with the Pharisees and Sadducees as I haue shewed were no other but Iewish Heretikes For example of Pilgrimages to Relikes and dead mens bones you answer vs that all the males amongst the Iewes were bound by the law to goe thrise in the yeare to the Temple of God at Ierusalem To make good that you may lawfully pray to haue your sinnes forgiuen by the bloud of Thomas Becket and by the same bloud to be brought to heauen you alleage that in the Psalme it is said h Ibid. §. 5. Lord remember Dauid and all his trouble To shew that St. Paul speaketh of the Masse you tell vs hereafter that i 1. Tim. 2. 1. he desireth that obsecrations prayers postulations thanks-giuings be made for all men What M. Bishop doe your iudicious Catholikes of whom you speake tell you that they like well of these proofes of yours And may not we then thinke that both you and they haue drunke of a spiced or rather an inchanted cup that will take such wilfull and affected Sophistications to be very vrgent and forcible reasons Surely M. Bishop with as much wit as you haue told vs here that some Catholikes like better of your booke then they doe of mine I might also tell you that many Protestants hauing seene these your collections and our solutions doe pitty your Catholikes that suffer themselues to be gulled and deluded with such reasonlesse reasons as before I affirmed them to be Yea so reasonlesse are they that when we haue shewed by answere how little reason there is in them we neuer doubt to commit them to the sight of all men And whereas you aske who are more circumspect then we are to keepe our followers from the reading of your bookes I aske of you what cause you your selfe haue to complaine in that behalfe Surely your bookes haue beene very openly and commonly sold and whereas you say that we imprison any that will helpe to print them you see your owne bookes printed for you and free for all men to buy that are desirous of them How many other of your books are there in the same sort common to the view of all men and by vs made common our care only being not to suffer poison to goe freely abroad without a preseruatiue therfore hauing ioyned answer to them we leaue euery one that list to reade at his liberty to iudge of both It would goe amisse with you M. Bishop if our books had that free passage amongst you that yours haue amongst vs. Your Kingdome would soone goe downe euen in Italie and Spaine if your men had liberty to reade our answeres togither with your books The last part of this passage concerneth his deliuery of a speech vttered by his Maiesty at the conference at Hampton Court That no Church ought further to separate it selfe from the Church of Rome in doctrine and ceremonie then shee hath departed from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate and from Christ her Lord and head In the rehearsall whereof I note him that subtilly he left out the last wordes And from Christ her Lord and head He telleth me that I shew no cause why I doe so and that indeede none can be shewed because they are needlesse wordes and comprehended in the former But we suppose that he needeth more vnderstanding that conceiueth those wordes to be needlesse which are no otherwise comprehended in the former then as the former are expounded by them For although in right meaning it be true which he saith that if the Church of Rome be not departed from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate shee cannot bee departed from Christ her Lord and head yet such a meaning he may make of her flourishing and best estate as that in that estate shee may be found somewhat to haue departed from Christ her Lord and head His Maiestie therefore to preuent this with great iudgement added And from Christ her Lord and head as to note that by her departing from Christ her Lord wee are to take knowledge of her departing from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate because then was her flourishing and best estate when shee was nearest to