and brethren with them are one the same publique body to be exercised in one and the same part of their publique communion and to make the officers publick persons and the brethren private in the cōmunion is to make a schisme in the Church and to make the brethren part of the cōmunion in the administration of the word sacraments prayer singing of Psalmes contribution calling of officers censuring of offenders or other Church action whatsoever private and the officers publik is to make it schismatical them in it schismatiks Thus much of the 9. errour objected The tenth foloweth which is that we say Their worship is a false worship For answer vnto this assertion Mr B refers vs to the end of this treatise and there then will wee attend for it yet somewhat will he say against it that is First that they worship no false God 2. that they worship the true God with no false worship We charge you not with the worship of any false God though wee shall see by by how in one particular you will defend your selves But the thing you should have endeavoured is to prove that your divine-service-book framed by man and by man imposed to be vsed without addition or alteration as the solemn worship of your Church is that true and spirituall manner of worshiping God which he hath appointed with which he will be worshiped in spirit trueth Of this you say little or nothing but bycause you seem to your self to say somewhat wee will see what it is The word you say preached is the true word the sacraments true sacraments the prayers we pray whether conceived or set and stinted are such as may be warranted by the word and agreable to the prescript form taught by our saviour Christ. The word preached in popery or in the most haereticall assembly in the world is the true word but the devises of men are not the true word eyther with you or them Yea the divels thēselues preached the true word when they affirmed and published that Iesus was that Christ the sonne of God the most High did they therefore perform vnto God true worship Of the sacraments I have spokē formerly have shewed that in the administration of them they cannot be reputed true It is the word of promise that makes the sacraments except then the parish assemblies joyntly considered in their members have right unto the spirituall promises of God the sacraments administred in and vnto them in that their estate cannot so be accounted true sacraments For your prayers I observe sundry things out of your own words which I may not passe over as first that you speak not properly no nor truely in saying you pray stinted prayers for you read them and who will say reading is praying you pray to God but will you say you read to God or if you so say and do is it agreable eyther to his ordinance or to cōmon reason Mistake me not as though I speak of inward prayer or of the lifting vp of the hart for I graunt a man may pray inwardly or lift vp the heart to God when he reads or preaches or sings or receives the sacraments of such prayer we neyther speak nor can discern but in our selves our speach then being of the outward act ordinance of prayer I do affirm and so marvayl if all reasonable men concurre not with me that the ordinance of reading cannot be the ordinance of praying 3. In your division of prayer wherin you make some conceived and some set and stinted you graunt that the prayers which are set and stinted are not conceived wherein you do as much as graunt that they are not of God nor according to his will The Apostle Iude directeth vs alwayes to pray in the holy Ghost and Paul teacheth that we cannot pray as we ought but as the spirit helpeth vs and begetteth in vs sighs vnutterable by the work of which spirit if our prayers be not conceived first in our hearts before they be brought forth in our lips they are an vnnaturall bastardly and prophane byrth Lastly if your stinted prayer be as you say agreable to the prescript forme of prayer taught by our saviour Christ then must none other form of prayer be vsed but a stinted or set form for none other form may be vsd but that which is agreable to the prescript form of Christ since Christ hath sayd after this manner pray Where you further add that nothing is imposed or done by you for the worship of God but the word read and preached and the sacraments and prayer I demaund of your first in worship or honour of whō are your holy dayes bearing the names of S. Michaels S. Peters S. Iohns day and the rest imposed and kept if in the honour of the Saynts Angels then are you not cleare as you make your selves from the worshipping of false Gods neyther can you exempt your selves from the number of them which in voluntary religion worship Angels if on the other side those dayes be appoynted and so kept holy in the worship and honour of God then do you and that by authority worship God by and put holines in other things then the word read preached and the sacraments and prayer yea and other things then ever came into the Lords heart to sanctify for his worship And so the place Math. 15. 9. and other scriptures to that purpose are truely though you say falsely alledged against you 2. I do demaund of you whether your Apocrypha books namely that which is placed betwixt both testaments causing the Iewes to think the new testament no better then the fables which are ioyned to it as a learned man of our nation hath observed and the other book of Homilies be enjoyned and vsed as parts of Gods worship It is evident they are so held And therefore it is that a great portion of the former is preferred in the most solemn assemblyes before the canonicall scriptures and the reading of them before the reading of the other which they justle out of their place And for the homilyes they are enioyned and so vsed in stead of the preaching of the word which is the principall part of Gods worship wherevpon it followeth that the Apocrypha wrytings of mē being preferred before one part of Gods worship which is the reading of the Canonicall scriptures and vsed in stead of an other part of Gods worship yea and that the principall part as is preaching are imposed and so vsed as partes of Gods worship So that it is not without good cause M Ber that M Ainsworth bids you prove the Apocrypha scriptures and books of Homilies the true word of God Nothing you tel vs is imposed and vsed amongst you for the worship of God but the true word of God read and preached and the sacraments and prayer now these being imposed and vsed for the
that can be brought but because they are yours which notwithstanding I am perswaded neyther you nor any other can satisfie And if Mr B. himselfe thus wryte and speak in private why blames he vs for our publique testimony Now if the Bishops be Antichristian and so the spirit of Divils Rev. 16. 14. why might not Mr Barrow affirm theyr Ministery and ministration to be of and by the Divill and what are they but eyther the tayl or some other lim of the beast And for theyr excommunications by name it is evident by this they are not of God for that the most religious in the kingdome make least account of them For theyr Luciferian pryde whereof Mr Barrow accuseth them it is apparant they burden the earth threaten the heavens with it for their hateful Symony both in giving and receiving they are so notorious as the best service Mr B. can do them in this case is to turn mens thoughts from those evils which every ey sees every heart abhorrs Towching the Ghost the Bishop gives in his blasphomous imitation of Christ Ioh. 20. 22. except contrary to the rule in nature nihil dâ—â— quod non habet he can give that he hath not it is not very likely he should give the Holy Ghost why then might not Mr Barrow call it an vnholy Ghost And for the Bible in the Bishops hands which he gives his Preists in ordination Mr Barrow calls it the libell not in contempt of the book but in reproof of the ceremony that iustly since the Lord never appointed the scriptures for any such vse nor any such ceremony in the ordination of his Ministers Christ and the Apostles would have such Ministers ordeyned as have the Bibles in their hearts the Bishops of England to supply this want give it into the hands of their Preists which they think sufficient though in truth the most of them are more vsed to handle a paire of cardes vpon an alebench then the holy bible Your Patrons Mr Barrow calles great Baals Lord Patrons and iustly in respect of that Lordly power they vse in obtruding their Clerks vpon the Parish assemblies your ministers yea all and every one of them Preists which is their proper name given them both in your book of ordination and coÌ„mon prayer your Deacons half-preists according to the nature of their office betwixt which the Deacons office in the new testament Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. 4. there is no consimilitude For the other more harsh termes wherewith he enterteynes such persons and things in the Church as carry with them most appearance of holynes they are to be interpreted according to his meaning and a distinction vsed by Mr B. in another place is here to be applyed Which is that Mr Barrow speaks not of these persons and things simply but in a respect so so considered so no one terme given by Mr Barrow to my knowledg but may at the least be tolerated The Ministers as they receive the wages of vnrighteousnes oâ— counsayl to spiritual fornication are Bâ—lâ—â—mites in respect of thâ—ir office vowed to destruction Cananites as they plead for confusion Babylonish divines as they endeavour to stay Gods people in Egypt spiritually so called Egyptian inchaunters as they are members of the Hierarchy 〈◊〉 of the Divel by vertue whereof he bear great sway as the reformists amongst you have expresly testifyed And for your very divine exerciseâ— of prayer preaching sacrâ—â—â—tâ— suâ—ging of psalâ—s howsoever they be good holy in theÌ„selves or at leasâ— have much good in them yet in respect of the vnhallowed coÌ„munion forgâ—d ministâ—ry and superstitious order wherein these and all other things with you are ministred and exercised they are lyable to the heaviest censure Mr Barrow hath put vpon them And for the most forward preachers in the kingdom considering their vnsound and broken courses in denying that in deed and practise which in wâ—rd and writing they profâ—sse to be the revealâ—d will oâ— God and inviolable testament of Christ binding his Church for ever yea and practising the contrary in the face of the sâ—nne commiâ—tâ—â—g two evils forsaking the Lord the fountayne of lâ—ving water to dig themselves broken pitâ—s which will hold no water yea not onely refusing themselves to enter into the kingdome of God the Church but also hindering them that would persecuting them that do and lastly considering them in their vnconscionable defence for their own standings and practises as that onely the godly in the parish are of the Church with them that they hold and vse their ministery by the acceptation of the people and not by the Bishops that they obey the Bishops in their citations suspensions excommunications and absolutions aâ— they are civil magistrates and â—he like they do deserve a sharper medicine then happily they are willing to endure Yea the very personall graces of knowledge zeale pâ—â—ience the like manifested in many both ministers and people are most vniustly perverted and misused to the obduration and hardening both of the persons themselves others in most deceivable wayes wherein the deepest mistery of iniquity and most effectuall delusion of Satan that can be worketh as is by Mr Barrow and others clearly discovered But that Mr Barrow should say that the preaching of Gods word â—â—e spirits effectuall working should make men the children of hell and two fold â—orse then bâ—fore is a great slaunder and could not possibly enter into his or any other godly mans heart And so I leave these and the like more vnsavoury-seeming speaches of Mâ— Barrow to the wise and Christian readers charitable interpretation The last rank of Mr B. reasons followeth which respect the matter of our sepâ—â—â—tion by him called schisme which how materiall they are shall appeare in their place Our first errour according to his reckoning is They hold that the constitution of our Church is a falsâ— constitution And let vs see how strongly your answer forces vs from this our hold 1. Arg. They cannot prove this simply by any playne doctrine of scripture and that which they would prove is but onely respectively and so may any thing and their Church also be condemned 2. Arg. It is against the evidence of the scriptures which maketh the word externall profession and sacraments the visible constitution c. That you then affirm in the first place is that wee cannot prove this simply by any playne doctrine wherein you do half confesse that wee do it by iust consequence though not by playne doctrine wholly that respectively and so so considered as you speak your coÌ„stitution is false And thus you say any thing may be condemned But first it is not true that any thing may be condemned after this sort The constitutioÌ„ of the Ch Apostolike could in no coÌ„sideration be condemned neyther could ours to our knowledge being according to that pattern how weakly soever we walk in it Secondly
of your owne hart But let vs heare your advise Quaere Whether it be an offence iustly given by thee or taken without iust reason of others thou not offending and they displeased the fault is their own and thou not chargeable therewith But you must vnderstand Mr B. that in the vnseasonable vse of things in themselves indifferent there is an offence both given taken and so a double sinn coÌ„mitted he that gives the offence sinns through want of charity and he that takes it through want or weaknes of fayth And so where actions simply good do onely hurt him that takes offence and actions simply evill him that gives it the vse of things indifferent agaynst expediency hurts harmes and destroyes both Rom. 14. 15. Now the parts of your secoÌ„d enquiry viz. whether men be offended in respect of what themselves know or butled by affection disliking of other mens dislike are insufficient For men do oft tymes take offence at things done and yet neyther in respect of their own knowledge nor of other mens dislike but merely through want of knowledg and vpon ignorance of their christian liberty And such were the weak brethren spoken of Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. and 9. which how they were to be tendered in their weaknes let the places iudge And for persoÌ„s partially affectionate or foolishly froward which is the mayn point in the 3. Quaere they are no way to be regarded as weak but on the contrary to be reproved as wayward contentious that folly and sinne may not rest vpon them Onely let men take heed they iudge not vncharitably of their brethren because they would practise vncharitably towards them as Nabal reviled David and his men as runnagates because he would deal churlishly with them and would shew them no mercy In the forth place it is demaunded What authority may do in things externall for outward rule in the circumstances of things How colourably you cary all the abominations in your Church vnder the shadow of circumstances and of how great moment even circumstances are in the case of religion I have formerly spoken let me onely ad thus much If a subject should vsurp the crown and exercise regall authority the difference were but in the circumstance of person which notwithstanding made the action high treason Or if a Preist comming to say his evensong should fall a sleep on his desk it were but a matter of circumstance in respect of tyme and place it might lawfully be done in another place and at another tyme yet there then it were a great prophaning of the service book What sway authority hath in the Church of England appeareth in the lawes of the land which make the goverment of the Church alterable at the Magistrates pleasure and so the Clergy in their submission to K. Henry 8. do derive as they pretend their ecclesiasticall jurisdiction from him and so exercise it Indeed many of the late Bishops and their Procters seeing how monstrous the ministration is of divine things by an humane authority and calling and growing bould vpon the present disposition of the Magistrate have disclaimed that former title and do professedly hold their eclesiasticall power and jurisdiction de jure divino so consequentâ—y by Gods word vnalterable Of whom I would demaund this one quaestion What if the King should discharge and expell the present ecclesiasticall goverment plant in stead of it the Presbytery or Eldership would they submit vnto the government of the Elders yea or no if yea then were they traytors to the Lord Iesus submitting to a goverment overthrowing his goverment as doth the Praesbyterian goverment that which is Episcopall if no then how could they free themselves from such imputations of disloyalty to Princes and disturbance of States as wherewith they load vs others opposing them But to the quaestion it self As the kingdom of Christ is not of this world but spirituall he a spiritual King so must the goverment of this spirituall kingdom vnder this spirituall King needs be spiritual all the lawes of it And as Christ Iesus hath by the merits of his Preisthood redemed as well the body as the soule so is he also by the scepter of his Kingdom to rule reign over both vnto which Christian Magistrates as well as meaner persons ought to submit themselves the more Christian they are the more meekly to take the yoke of Christ vpon them and the greater authority they have the more effectually to advance his scepter over themselves their people by all good meanes Neyther can there be any reason given why the merits of saynts may not as wel be mingled with the merits of Christ for the saving of his Church as the lawes of men with his lawes for the ruling and guiding of it He is as absolute and as intire a King as he is a Preist and his people must be as carefull to praeserve the dignity of the one as to enjoy the benefit of the other The next Quaere is Whether authority commaunding doth not take away the offence which might otherwise be given in a voluntary act This question is answered affirmatively by the Bishops their adhaerents and so with one voice they affirme in their books pulpits and other publik determinations but herein as palpably flattering the Magistrate as ever Canonist did the Pope What more was ever given to the Pope then that he might dispence with the morall law And what lesse is given to the King when by his authority I vse things indifferent with offence to my weak brother Is not love the fulfilling of the law And is it not against the law of love to vse things indifferent with offence which must the more carefully be avoyded coÌ„sidering the effects it drawes with it which are not onely the grief vvhich were too much but even the destruction of him for whom Christ dyed ver 5. 20. 1 Cor. 8. 11. Onely he which can strengthen the weak faith which is the cause of the offence can take away the offence and stablish him that is weak Rom. 14. 4. Men may and must vse meanes for that purpose and not nourish the weak in their weaknes but beare them they must in love and much love will have much patience Lastly for I passe over the 5. Quaere as comprehended in those which go before where you advise meÌ„ to studie agayn to study to be quiet and to follow those things which concerne peace it is needfull counsel and againe needfull considering what vnquiet spirits are to be found in all places Onely let men in their counsayls which you leave out ioyne with peace aedification and holynes as the scriptures teach and so separating the pretious from the vile they shal be to vs as Gods mouth and let their peace be in the word of righteousnes the ioy of the counselers of peace shal be vpon
them and the blessing of peace-makers vpon their heads Of Mr B. disswasive probabilities THe next thing that comes into consideration is certayn probabilities likelyhoods as the authour calls them consisting for the most part of personal imputations di graceful calumniations whereby he labours to withdraw the harts of the simple froÌ„ the truth of God unto disobedience as Absalom did the people into rebellion against the K. by slandering his goverment 2 SaÌ„ 15. But if Mr Bern. followed his sound judgement in this booâ— as he professeth in the Preface and so laboured to lead others he would neyther go himself nor send them by vnstable guesses and likelyhoods as he doth The truth of God goes not by peradventures neyther needs it any such paper-shot as likelyhoods are to assault the adversary withall The word of God which is profitablâ— to teach to reprovâ— to correct and to instruct in righteousnes is sufficient to furnish the man of God with weapons spirituall and those mighty through God to cast downe strong holds and whatsoever high thing is exalted against the knowledge of God And if M. B. speak according to the Law and Prophets his words are solid arguments if not there is neyther light in him nor truth in them and so where truth is wanting must some like-truthes or images of truth be layed in the place like the image in Davids bed to deceive them that sought after him when he himself was wanting 1 Saâ— 19. 13. The first probabilitie that our way is not good is The noveltie thereof differing from all the best reformed Churches â—â— Christendome It is no noveltie to hear men plead custome when they want truth So the heathen Phylosophers reproched Paul as a bringer of new doctrine so do the Papists discountenance the doctrine and profession of the Church of England yea even at this day very many of the people in the Land vse to call Popery the old law the profession there made the new law But we for our parts as we do beleeve by the word of God that the things we teach are not new but old truthes renued so are we no lesse fully perswaded that the Church constitution in which we are set is cast in the Apostolicall and primitive mould and not one day nor hower yonger in the nature and forme of it then the first Church of the new Testament And whether a people all of them separated sanctified so farr as men by their fruits can or ought to judge or a mingled generation of the seed of the womaÌ„ and seed of the serpent be more ancient the government of sundry Elders or Bishops with joynt authority over one Church or of one Nationall Provincial or Diocesan Bishop over many hundred or thousand Churches the spirituall prayers conceived in the heart of the Ministers according to the present occasions or necessityes of the Church or the English service book the simple administration of the Sacraments according to the words of institution or pompous and carnall complements of cap coap surplice crosse godfathers kneeling and the like mingled withall I do even refer it to the report of Mr B. owne conscience be it never so partiall Now for the differences betwixt the best reformed Churches as Mr B. calls them granting thereby his owne to be the worst and vs they ar extant in print being few in number those none of the greatest weight But what a volume would these differences make betwixt those reformed Churches and the vnreformed Churches of England if they were exactly set downe And yet for the corruptions reproved by vs in the reformed Church where we live I do vnderstand by them of good knowledge and sincerity that the most or greatest of them are rather in the exequution then in the constitution of the Church Our differences from the reformed Churches Mr B. aggravates by two reasons 1. The first is our separation from them 2. the 2. certeyne termes of disgrace vttered by Mr Barrow Mr Greenwood agaynst the Eldership which Mr Bernard will have vs disclayme For the first it is not truely affirmed that we separate from them What our judgment is of them our confessions of fayth and other wrytings do testify and for our practise as we cannot possibly ioyn vnto them would we never so fayne being vtterly ignorant of their language so neither do wee separate from them save in such particulars as we esteeme evill which we also shall endeavour to manifest vnto them so to be as occasion and meanes shal be offered And secondly for the taxations layd by Mr B. and Mr G. vpon the Eldership or other practise in the reformed Churches wherein they were any way excessive we both have disclaimed alwayes are and shal be ready to disclayme the same Onely I entreat the godly reader to coÌ„sider that those things were not spoken by them otherwise then in respect of those corruptions in the Eldership els where which they deemed Antichristian and evill Of which respective phrase of speach more hereafter Lastly if it be likely that our way is not good for the difference it hath from the reformed Churches and that thâ— greatneâ— of the difference appeares by the hard termes given by some of vs agaynst the government there vsâ—d thâ—n surâ—ly iâ— is much more likely that the way of the vnreformed Church of England is not good which differeth far more froÌ„ the reformed Chuâ—ches which difference appeares not onely in most reprochfull termes vsed by the Praelates and their adhaerents against the seekers of reformation comparing them to all vile haeretiques and seditious persons but in cruell persequutions raysed agaynst them and greater then against Papists or Atheists The second marke by which Mr B. guesseth our way not good is for that it agreeth so much with the antient schismatiques condemned in former ages by holy and learned men Luciferians Donatists Novattans and Audians Can our way both be a novelty new devise and yet agree so well with the antient schismatiques condemned in former ages Contradictions cannot be both true but may both be false as these are The partyes to whome Mr B. likeneth vs were condemned not onely for schisme but for heresy also as appeares in Epiphanius Austine Eusebius and others And as we have nothing no not in sâ—ew like vnto some of them nor in truth vnto any of them in the things blame worthy in them so if Mr B. were put to iustify by the word of God the condemnation of some of them it would put him to more trouble then he is aware of The Audians dissented from the Nicene Councell about theyr Easter tyme. The Luciferians held the soule of man to be ex traduce and were therefore accounted Haeretiques as indeed it was too vsuall a thing in those dayes to reiect men for haeretiques vpon too light causes And for the Donatists vnto whom Mr Gifford others would so fayn
two or three and therefore not to all I have answered and do that to two or three and yet to all when there are but two or three in all as vsually comes to passe in the raysing and dispersing of Churches Your 6. Argument to prove that the word Church must be taken figuratively is first that els the Corinthians had offended who being all commaunded did but some of them proceed against the incestuous person 1 Cor. â— 13. 2 Cor. 2. 6. 2. that els Paul had offended who vpon the complaint of Cloes house did himself without wayting for the Churches consent being absent iudge and determine the matter and sâ—nt to them to execute â—â— sentence These two Arguments Mr B. are in your hands like the two witnesses that came against Christ they neyther agree one with an other nor eyther of them with the truth In the former you plead for the Presbytery in saying that some of them did proceed against him in the latter you vtterly overthrow that and step in for the Bishops sole power where you make Paul alone iudge and determiner of the busines I am verily perswaded Mr Smyth hath felt your pulse in this place and found directly what blood runs in your â—eynes to him therefore do I leave you for iudgement in the case And for answer to the particulars In the first argument you do most sinfully corrupt the scriptures knowing that if they be soundly alleadged they will give no countenaunce to your errour For where Paul sayth it is sufficient for the same man that he was rebuked of many you for the word many put sâ—me where some doth import a part and but a part for where some are sayd to do a thing it followes that other some do it not where the word many is oft times put for all as being opposed to one or a few as in this place many rebuking to one rebuked Take for this phrase of speach these scriptures Dan. 12. 2. Mat. 13. 17. Luke 12. 7. Rom. 5. 19. and 8. 29. 12. 4. 5. 1 Cor. 10. 17. 12. 12. 14. But mark I pray thee wise reader when this man expounds Math. 18. 19. 20. where mention is made of a few two or three having the power of Christ there by two or three are meant the officers and Christ hath established the authority of a few for the good of all and again two or three officers and a few have this authority and yet notwithstanding when he comes to expound 2 Cor. 2. 6. where mention is made of many rebuking the offender there by many must be meant the officers also What Mr B are two or three Officers in respect of the whole body many Doth the holy Ghost speaking of a few in the Church mean the officers and speaking of many mean the officers also It were good you awoke out of your dream that you might spy your contradictions and how one peice reproves an other To the obiection I do answer that first it doth not appear that the party was excommunicated it may be vpon admonition he repented and so the extremity spoken of 1 Cor. 5. 5. was prevented and 2. if he were eyther by many may be meant all as I have formerly shewed or otherwise it is sufficient if some reprove the Elders or some of them specially by their office and so of the brethren in the second place if they see necessary cause wherevpon with the silent consent of the rest iudgement may be given or the party delivered to Sathan The 7. Reason to prove the Elders the Church is the iudgement and practise of all reformed Churches As the reformed Churches do abhorre from your practise as intollerable yea almost incredible that the power of excommunication should be in the hands of one man and that a forreyn Prelate or Officiall that most like never so much in his life as once came in the congregation whereof the offender is a member as may be seen in one for all Beza Epist. 12. so bycause you will needs thus beare over all with all the reformed Churches I will a little step out of my beaten way and call in a few well-deserving audience of the reformed Churches to testify what their judgement is in the case joyning vnto them also a few of our own men seeming to be of the same mind whatsoever the practise is eyther of the one or of the other To omit then the judgement and practise of the more ancient times whether whole councels or particular persons as of the Council of Nâ—ce where Paphuâ—tius no Church officer both had vsed such liberty of speach as he perswaded the whole assembly touching the maryage of Ministers of Tertullian before that who Apol chap. 39. makes the officers onely Praesidents in the assembly where manners are censured of Ciprian who would never do any thing in his charge without the consent of the people lib. 3 epist. 10. and in particular thinks it specially the peoples right to chuse or reiect worthy or vnworthy Ministers then which what power is greater Of Austin that thinks it helps much to the shaming of the party that he be excommunicated by the whole Church lib. 3. contra epist. Parmen and lastly of Ierom ad Demetr which affirms that the Church it self hath right in excommunication as the Elders have in other Church censures the first is Zwinglius who artiâ— 8. explanat speaking of the contention which hath been what a Church is acknowledges none other Churches but 1. the coÌ„pany of sure firm beleevers scattered through the vniversal world which we call the catholik Church 2. severall congregations which â—oÌ„veniently meet together in some one place c. and of these he affirmes Christ to speak Math. 18. Tell the Church and Paul 1 Cor. 1. To the Church which is at Corinth And answering an objection touching a Church representative he saith of this I find nothing in the scriptures out of mens devises any man may feyn any thing Next Perter Martyr in his comon places pant 4. chap. 5. sect 9. making the Church a Monarchy in respect of Christ an Aristocracy in respect of the Elders addeth also that bycause in the Church there are matters of great weight and importance referred vnto the people as excommunication absolution of choosing Ministers the like it hath also a consideration of popular government and vpon 1 Cor. 5. 4. The Apostle as great as he was would not excommunicate alone but did take counsel with the Church that the thing might be done by common authority Which notwithstanding the Pope and other Bishops dare do The Apostle indeed goes before the rest which is the duty of the ancients of the Ch that the more ignorant multitude by their suffragation before going may be directed in iudâ—ing With him ioyn Bucer who in his first book chapt 9. de regno Christi affirmes that Paul accuses the Corinthians for that the whole Church
person is Mr Nichols who in his Plea of the innocent expresly affirms that conferring with the particular persons in his parish after he had preached some good space amongst them about the meanes of salvation of 400 coÌ„municants he scarce found one but that thought and professed a man might be saved by his own wâ—ll doing and thaâ— he trusted he did so love that by Gods grace he should obteyn everlasting lâ—se by serving God and good prayers Now how do these agree together Mr B sayth that all professe salvation by Christ onely and alone Mr Nichols on the coÌ„trary affirms out of his own experience that not one of 400 so thinks and professes And if he and all the ministers in England should deny it we out selves by our own experience know what the fayth and perswasion of the multitude in most places is Now for your further reasoning that bycause a Bishop or two published this and some other mayn truthes vnto the world with the approbation of the Parliament and Convocation house and that some preachers here there do so teach therefore all the land so professeth where many thowsands do not so much as vnderstaÌ„d it what can be imagined more vayn Can men professe the truth they know noâ— What is this but the Papists implicit faith when men beleiv as the Church beleiveth though they know not what it is yea and worse then it also for as we see and know infinite multitudes beleive and vpon occasion professe the contrary But most vayn of all is it to affirm that bycause a few godly martyrs have sealed vp this the like truthes with their blood that therefore they that murdered them professe the same truth are true ChristiaÌ„s without any other change wrought in them for the most part then by the Magistrates sword and authority You affirm by way of answer pag. 249. of your second book that the Magistrates compulsion vnto goodnes is no hurt vnto it neyther makes men vnholy or lesse good if they have goodnes in them As it is not simply true you affirm that the compulsion of men to the faith doth not hurt it for if the causing the truth to be blasphemed be to hurt it then the coÌ„pelling of apparant wicked persoÌ„s to professe the same hurts it as it doth both them and the Church whereof they are so if the body of the land in the beginning of the Queens reign were good and holy at all the magistrates compulsion wrought it in men made them of persequuting Idolaters true Christians for other meanâ—â— intervening or coÌ„ming betwixt their professioÌ„ of the masse of the gospell had they none saving the Magistrates authority But here I am by necessity and in respect of the present matter in hand drawn into Mr B. 2. book and a great benefit were it to me if there I might find him though in both vnfound yet one and the same But a great trouble it is to walk with a drunken man and to be bound to follow him in all his vagaâ—ies so is it to deal with an adversary light headed dizzy with wrath vanity and errour whom a man must follow in all his staggerings and reelings to and fro and in all the forwards and backwards that he makes oft times going and vngoing again the same by-pathes There is no one thing wherevpon Mr B labours more in his former book and for which he brings more reasons and scriptures and those often repeated then to prove the Church of EnglaÌ„d or rather such particular Churches as have the word preached in them to be truely gathered after the suppressing of Popery and by the order of the Apostolick Churches both in respect of separation from Idolatours and Antichristian Papists pag. 108 as also by profession of the mayn truth and sum of the Gospell wherein they differed from Iewes Turks and Pagans as no matter and also from Papists as false matter of the Church pag 111. 112. 113. 116. And therefore having proved by a multitude of scriptures that the Apostolick Churches were gathered by free profession of fayth he concludes thus of them and of his own Church such as make this profession are true matter and so are wee for we all professe this fayth c. But now as though he had eyther forgotten what he wrote before or cared not how he crossed himselfe so he might oppose vs against whom he hath vowed such vtter emnity he suckes in his former breath and eats the words he had formerly vttered peremptorily affirming in his 2. book that in the reformation of a Church after Popery there is not required any such profession nor yet the word of God to go before their reformation but that the feare of the Magistrates sword is sufficient to recover them and to setle the people in order to the worship of God The ground vpon which he builds this his new and crosse opinion is the practise of Asa Ezechias Iosias and Nehemiah godly Kings and Princes of Iudah in the reformation of that Church after her Apostacy in the dayes of vngodly Idolatrous Kings therevpon taking it for graunted that the catholique visible Ch of Rome as it is called now is and that the national Church of England in Queen Maries dayes and before when Popery reigned was in the same estate with Iudah in her apostacy he concludes thence that as the Magistrates then without any voluntary profession did by force bring the people of the Iewes back from Idolatry to the true service of God so might King Edward and Queen Elizabeth by force bring back the people of England into covenant with God to be his true Church without any such profession of fayth as in the first planting of Churches is required We will then consider of this poynt at large as being both weighty in it self and having many others depending vpon it That Iudah was at the first and so continued by vertue of the Lords Covenant with her forefathers on his part faythfully remembred and kept though by her oft tymes broken the true Church of God and holy in the root till she was broken of for vnbeleif after the death resurrection and ascension of Christ fully published and confirmed by the Apostles I graunt with him but the same or the like things of the Church of Rome or of England in the respects layd down may I not acknowledg That there was at Rome a true Church beloved of God called saynts by giving obedience vnto the fayth is apparant but that eyther the city or Church of Rome consisting of many cities and countryes was ever within the Lords covenant and holy in the root as Iudah was may I neyther acknowledg neyther can he possibly prove So for England I wil not deny but there were at the first true Churches planted in it by the preaching of the gospell and obedience of fayth and these as the other Churches in every nation though in
and combyne together as they did may cease to be the true Church of Christ and may eyther become no Church by forsaking all profession of Christianity or a false Church by holding and professing themselves stil Christians in fellowship with God through Christ when being considered by the revealed will of God and testament of Christ they are in truth in deed neyther the one nor the other And considering what Iohn sayth that he which loveth not his brother and so consequently cares not for his welfare which issueth from the former as the stream from the spring is not of God nor of his children but of the children of the Divel and withall that you your self right now did place the form covenant of the Church in a great measure in the manifestation and testimony of love in the members each to other and so consequently of care ech for the welfare of other I see not how that Church can be accounted the houshould of God consisting of his children by the word of God or the body of Christ vnited coupled together of his members by your owne doctrine where this love of and care for each other is visibly and outwardly wanting But to passe over all other things the point vpon which Mr B. insists and which he would most gladly fasten vpon the reader is that the power of the censures and of excommunication termed by the name of discipline howsoever it be a thing necessary for the wel being of the Church yet is it no essentiall property nor of such necessity but that a true Church may be without it And this wanting scriptures or reasons to confirm it he affirms again and again and in the end illustrates by a similtude taken from a man who is not therefore a false man though he can neyther see nor gâ—e nor speak It is recorded of one THEODOTIVS that having denied Christ in persequution to lessen his sin he went about to lessen Christ and taught that he was mere man and not God so many in the case of Christs government that their own and other mens sinne may seem lesser in not vsing or submitting vnto it do labour to extenuate and make it lesse excellent or vsefull then it is and therevpon one telles vs it is not a part of Gods worship nor of religion another that it is a thing indifferent arbytrary changeable a third that it is not simply necessary for the true Church as Mr B in this place The vnsoundnes of whose affirmation illustration I will by and by manifest the Lord assisting me in the mean while I do desire the reader to observe with me these two things in his writings about this point The former is that in labouring thus earnestly to perswade as here he doth that the power of excommunication is not of simple necessity he in effect graunts that which all men know to be true namely that the Churches in England do want this power Now if here he answer as he doth in his 2. book that though the power of excommunication â—e not in every parish yet it is in the Church of England in which is comprehended all paâ—rishes and all superiour power over these Parishes in which is the power of Christ I reply these particulars First that he might thus answer though one Bishop alone had engrossed into his hands all this power yea a Papist might answer thus for the Popes sole authority over all the Churches in the world yea though he should communicate the same with no other person or persons 2. Let this mans shifting be well noted When both in this and the other book he pleads for the Ministery in the Church he passes by the Nationall Provinciall and Diocesan Ministery and speaks onely of the Ministery in some parishes where some honest zealous preachers are but now comming to plead for the power of Christ in the Church he takes the contrary course and passing by the parishes takes his flight to the Nationall Provinciall and Diocesan Ministery there to find comfort 3. the quaestion here as he himself puts it pag. 125. of this book is about particular congregations which he sayth there are with them having true matter true form and true properties whereof excommunication is one To this also adde that in the end of his book he aâ—oucheth the Ministers affirmation that this power is given to the particular congregations in the land 4. lastly I haue formerly manifested from Mat. 18. 1 Cor. 5. that this power and praerogative is given to a particular congregation besides which the new testament acknowledgeth none other visible Church and if that one particular Church or congregation aâ— Corinth gathered together into the name of the Lord Iesus Christ had the promise of his presence and that he would be in the mâ—ddest of them and were by this power of the Lord Iesus Christ to deliver to Satâ—n purge out iudge and put away wicked men from among them for fayling in which duety they were reproved by the Apostle then why not every other particular Church or congregation of Gods people as well as that one espetially since that as all other scriptures was written for our learning and that there is but one Church or body as there is but one Lord one that is in matter form and essentiall properties The 2. thing I desire may be noted is that Mr B doth if not deceiptfully yet vnfitly comprehend the power of the censures vnder the care for the welfare of the Church since this power may be full and intire where the care is eyther very little or not at all as it came to passe in the Church of Corinth which had this power alwayes amongst them but neglected the vse of it and therein the care for the welfare of the Church which they should have had for which neglect they were reproved by the Apostle Now for the similitude I do except against it in a double respect first for that God doth oft times deprive a man of the naturall power of seing going and speaking by naturall infirmities within or bodily violence from without but Christ never deprives his Church of this spirituall power of excommunication neyther can it be impeached by any outward violence onely Antichrist exalting himself against all that is called God and intruding himself into the throne of Christ doth deprive the Church of God and of Christ of this liberty and power and so all those Churches or congregations over whom he thus vsurpeth receive his mark are in that respect subject to his judgement 2. Mr B as I have formerly observed doth most vnaptly coÌ„pare the power of casting out offenders to the faculty of seing speaking and the like it is more fitly resembled to the want of power to void and purge excrements which is prodigious in nature so neyther the naturall nor spirituall body so constituted can possibly consist or
reader may see in both his books from their gifts and aptnes to teach from their holy graces their painfull and zealous preaching their suppressing of Popery and conversion of soules with other the like effects of the truthes of the gospel published and taught by them which things since he dares not affirm of the scandalous vnpreaching Preists he cunningly passeth them by as some small moat faln into the Church by the covetousnes of Much-wormly patrons but contrary to the true meaning of the lawes and without the least default of the Bishops or Archbishops as though the covetous Patrons could present them except the vngodly Bishops had first ordeyned them If he had undertaken the justification but as true though not as good both of the vnpreaching and preaching Ministers he must have sought and produced such Arguments as would haue agreed to both but finding himself able to make no shew at all for the ignorant idle and scandalous sort having no colours to paynt no morter to dawb over those filthy stones no not to any shew he smothers all them though far the greater both in number and authority and in deed the almost onely true formall ministers according to the Church canon and constitution and presents to the reader a few dispersed disgraced tolerated and tolerating persons and vndertakes their defence manifesting himself a right naturall merchant of that great whore in shewing some handfull of tolerable wares thereby to deceive the simple buyer with the whole peice or heap of rotten stuffe which goes with them Now on the contrary if Mr B. should not haue defended men of lewd conversation as true visible matter of the Church and members of Christs body he could not haue justifyed with any colour the Nationall Provinciall Diocesan and Parish Churches or any one of them as true since they were all at the first collected and do still consist for the greatest part of such people and so disposed He therefore takes liberty vnto himself to make such defence and for so much of his Church and Ministery as will serve his turn amongst the deceived multitude and of no more But the mayn point in this place about this matter in hand to be considered of is whether ability to preach be a qualification and so preaching a work necessarily required in the ministery of Engl according to the true meaning of the lawes ecclesiasticall civil and the book of ordination This Mr B. takes for graunted affirmatively and vpon it as a mayn ground builds his whole treatise about this matter but I on the contrary do affirm that this is so is known to be to all that mind it with wisdom good conscience cleane otherwise and that neyther this ability nor practise of preaching is of necessity required to the true and naturall constitution of the English ministery in the meaning of the lawes established in that case And for the confirmation of that I affirm against this mans presumptuous asseveration these proofs suffice First the books of Homilies published and confirmed by law to be read of such ministers as cannot preach do evidently declare that ability to preach is not necessarily required of all in the true meaning of the law 2. By the statute law of the land and in particular by one statute enacted for the prevention of vnworthy ministers though wanting the book I cannot set down the title tyme or order of it he that is eyther a Bachilour of arts in one of the Universities or can give an account of his faith in latin or hath been brought vp in a Bishops house though he haue been his porter or horsekeeper or hath a gift in preaching is capable of orders and may be by the Bishop ordeyned a minister so that by the expresse letter and playn meaning of the law aptnes and ability to teach is not necessarily required in the English ministery If he haue any one of the three former qualifications the law approves of him and being ordeyned the Patron may present him to any congregation in the land whom the Bishop also must institute the Archdeacon induct and the people receive and may be therevnto compelled whither they will or no. Adde vnto these that your canons and constitutions framed by the convocation house and confirmed by the Kings royall assent so being the lawes ecclesiasticall of your Church by your doctrine Mr B. the Act of all the Church though the inferiours come not to consent do not onely approve an vnpreaching Ministery but also lay deep curses and Anathemaes vpon all that deny eyther the truth or lawfulnes of it To this also I might annex that it is a very common doctrine with your Prelates and their Chaplins and faction that preaching is no necessary annexum or appurtenance vnto Orders which they also offer to defend against all gainsayers But it seems you haue speciall reference to the book of ordination let vs therefore see what it makes for you or your purpose That you build vpon I know iâ— these words of the Bishop when he orders his Preist and delivers him the Bible in his hand Take thou authority to preach the word of God and to minister the holy sacraments in this congregation where thou shalt be so appointed The words I hear and acknowledge but the true meaning of the book I deny it to be that every Minister should be able to preach It may as wel be sayd it is the meaning of the book that that every Preist should be ordeyned in the particular congregation where he is to minister bycause of the latter words in this congregation where thou shalt be so appoynted and that he is to minister the discipline of Christ as well as the doctrine and sacraments bycause such words passe betwixt him and the Bishop in another place of the same book It is not the least delusion of Sathan or mistery that such formes of good wordes are reteyned both in the Romish English Church without any truth eyther of purpose or practise in those which vse them for by them the eyes of the simple are easily bleared by such deceivable merchants as right now I spake of though it be not without a speciall providence of God that these the like forms of words should be vsed for the more full conviction and condemnation of them that chuse to be deceived as I have formerly noted in this book To conclude this poynt The reading of the service book in form and maner the celebrating of mariage churching of women burying of the dead conformity and subscription are more essentiall to your ministery and more necessarily requyred by the lawes of your Church both civil and ecclesiasticall then preaching of the gospel is The wearing of the surplice and signing with the crosse in baptism are of absolute necessity without partial dispensation yea I may ad violation of oath by the Bishops whereas preaching of the word is no