devotion_n and_o reason_n first_o essay_n wherein_o modern_a devotion_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v bring_v to_o solid_a principle_n and_o make_v rational_a in_o way_n of_o answer_n to_o mr_n j._n m_n remembrance_n for_o the_o live_v to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a by_o thomas_n white_a gent._n in_o quo_fw-la quemque_fw-la invenerit_fw-la suus_fw-la novissimus_fw-la dies_fw-la in_fw-la eo_fw-la eum_fw-la comprehendet_fw-la mundi_fw-la novissimus_fw-la dies_fw-la aug._n epist._n 80._o ad_fw-la hesychium_n paris_z mcdlxi_o preface_n to_o the_o gentleman_n who_o send_v i_o mr._n j._n m_n book_n sir_n peradventure_o you_o may_v desire_v as_o well_o my_o judgement_n of_o mr._n m_n book_n as_o the_o answer_n of_o it_o in_o brief_a then_o the_o man_n i_o know_v many_o year_n ago_o and_o conceive_v a_o good_a idea_n of_o his_o honesty_n and_o such_o learning_n as_o can_v then_o be_v expect_v from_o he_o he_o go_v after_o beyond_o the_o sea_n where_o as_o i_o hear_v he_o follow_v other_o study_n and_o at_o his_o return_n i_o see_v he_o once_o but_o have_v a_o good_a character_n of_o he_o from_o a_o common_a friend_n as_o touch_v his_o honesty_n for_o as_o to_o his_o learning_n either_o my_o friend_n have_v not_o try_v it_o or_o we_o have_v no_o occasion_n to_o discourse_v of_o it_o with_o this_o character_n of_o his_o person_n i_o undertake_v the_o read_n of_o his_o book_n in_o which_o i_o find_v all_o the_o art_n necessary_a to_o the_o defend_n of_o a_o bad_a cause_n with_o as_o little_a shame_n as_o be_v possible_a he_o bring_v know_v heresy_n for_o his_o defence_n of_o lawful_a author_n he_o stretch_v their_o person_n to_o the_o height_n their_o word_n beyond_o their_o extent_n if_o he_o light_v upon_o a_o authority_n of_o some_o church_n book_n you_o will_v think_v it_o be_v the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n he_o so_o press_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o it_o by_o interpretation_n and_o translation_n he_o make_v they_o say_v what_o he_o list_v he_o impose_v upon_o his_o adversary_n erroneous_a doctrine_n sometime_o because_o he_o have_v not_o take_v the_o pain_n to_o understand_v they_o and_o other_o time_n because_o otherwise_o his_o cause_n will_v be_v open_o go_v he_o special_o press_v my_o opposition_n to_o pope_n bull_n as_o aim_v by_o confirmation_n of_o they_o to_o have_v i_o censure_v of_o two_o the_o one_o he_o corrupt_v the_o other_o he_o understand_v more_o like_o a_o banker_n than_o a_o divine_a and_o yet_o set_v his_o rest_n upon_o they_o most_o of_o his_o argument_n be_v from_o place_n common_a to_o both_o side_n a_o great_a weapon_n with_o he_o be_v to_o tax_v his_o adversary_n argument_n as_o employ_v by_o heretic_n to_o prove_v error_n not_o know_v that_o it_o be_v a_o principal_a method_n of_o gain_v science_n to_o use_v the_o argument_n of_o extreme_a error_n to_o conclude_v the_o middle_a truth_n a_o way_n much_o practise_v by_o aristotle_n and_o very_o laudable_a for_o as_o aristotle_n teach_v there_o be_v nâ—_n famous_a error_n without_o some_o truth_n in_o it_o see_v wiâ—h_o â—t_a show_n of_o truth_n nature_n can_v not_o receive_v it_o he_o have_v make_v a_o collection_n of_o good_a and_o bad_a i_o think_v of_o as_o much_o as_o can_v be_v say_v but_o seem_v to_o make_v no_o distinction_n between_o those_o that_o have_v some_o weight_n and_o those_o which_o have_v none_o his_o answer_n be_v sometime_o the_o admit_v of_o plain_a contradiction_n sometime_o admit_v of_o all_o we_o say_v and_o for_o the_o most_o some_o difference_n in_o word_n more_o than_o in_o meaning_n yet_o he_o brag_v fearful_o of_o his_o great_a exploit_n and_o triumph_n when_o he_o please_v he_o explicate_v my_o opinion_n in_o disguise_a language_n and_o ordinary_o imperfect_o i_o hope_v his_o book_n will_v prove_v the_o decision_n if_o not_o of_o the_o cause_n at_o least_o of_o the_o handle_n of_o it_o he_o have_v have_v two_o great_a advantage_n against_o i_o one_o by_o which_o a_o witty_a spanish_a preacher_n call_v padre_n mancio_fw-la overcome_v his_o corrival_n to_o a_o sermon_n in_o a_o country_n parish_n for_o put_v he_o to_o say_v his_o pater_fw-la noster_fw-la in_o latin_a before_o the_o people_n to_o try_v his_o learning_n when_o his_o corrival_n say_v it_o right_n he_o will_v correct_v he_o according_a to_o the_o false_a pronunciation_n of_o the_o common_a people_n which_o the_o people_n applaud_v prefer_v he_o so_o your_o author_n have_v the_o advantage_n by_o explicate_v spiritual_a thing_n corporal_o to_o have_v the_o apprehension_n of_o ordinary_a both_o man_n and_o divine_n and_o consequent_o the_o applause_n for_o he_o the_o secend_v be_v that_o he_o have_v commodity_n of_o book_n which_o to_o i_o be_v a_o stranger_n and_o unknown_a and_o in_o a_o town_n not_o extraordinary_a bookish_a be_v hard_a to_o find_v for_o which_o reason_n i_o be_o fain_a to_o be_v content_a with_o the_o fault_n his_o citation_n afford_v without_o be_v able_a to_o give_v so_o ample_a satisfaction_n as_o the_o see_n of_o the_o work_n themselves_o may_v have_v make_v i_o able_a to_o exhibit_v yet_o all_o this_o do_v not_o cause_v i_o to_o make_v a_o evil_a apprehension_n of_o the_o man_n i_o know_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o the_o persuasion_n he_o have_v be_v imbue_v with_o must_v needs_o have_v this_o effect_n that_o he_o must_v help_v himself_o by_o all_o the_o mean_n he_o can_v and_o very_o likely_a be_v conceit_v that_o he_o do_v sacrifice_n to_o god_n in_o make_v my_o opinion_n seem_v the_o worst_a he_o can_v his_o way_n of_o piety_n his_o instruction_n to_o handle_v divinity_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o author_n who_o vote_n have_v no_o force_n his_o obedience_n and_o the_o utility_n of_o his_o friend_n all_o drive_v he_o to_o this_o i_o on_o the_o other_o side_n be_o force_v to_o treat_v sometime_o his_o opinion_n rude_o sometime_o his_o argument_n because_o the_o english_a tongue_n make_v our_o controversy_n expose_v to_o such_o judgement_n as_o be_v to_o be_v tell_v what_o the_o nature_n of_o proof_n or_o say_n be_v and_o well_o it_o fall_v out_o when_o even_o after_o tell_v it_o they_o be_v able_a to_o see_v it_o but_o i_o do_v not_o desire_v any_o of_o my_o say_n shall_v reflect_v 〈◊〉_d his_o person_n for_o his_o learning_n beseem_v well_o enough_o the_o narrative_a divinity_n that_o he_o have_v follow_v which_o have_v no_o deep_a root_n than_o whether_o some_o classical_a author_n under_o which_o nation_n come_v many_o a_o mean_v divine_a hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n and_o if_o some_o number_n hold_v it_o than_o it_o be_v canonize_v for_o good_a doctrine_n but_o it_o be_v not_o my_o theme_n here_o to_o declaim_v against_o the_o weakness_n of_o vulgar_a divine_n but_o to_o recommend_v my_o pain_n and_o self_n to_o you_o desire_v you_o and_o your_o friend_n opinion_n of_o they_o and_o of_o your_o ever_o friend_n and_o servant_n thomas_n white_a first_o part_n refute_v the_o argument_n from_o authority_n and_o reason_n against_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o middle_a state_n first_o division_n contain_v what_o in_o the_o first_o four_o chapter_n concern_v the_o author_n to_o answer_v the_o adversary_n misrepresenting_n of_o the_o author_n doctrine_n and_o mistake_v of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n his_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o some_o saint_n of_o the_o old_a law_n reassume_v not_o their_o body_n draw_v from_o authority_n and_o their_o remain_a relic_n show_v inefficacious_a and_o spring_a from_o shallowness_n in_o philosophy_n sir_n 1._o the_o book_n you_o send_v i_o put_v i_o in_o mind_n of_o a_o punishment_n st._n hierom_n report_v to_o have_v be_v use_v to_o some_o martyr_n who_o first_o the_o pagan_n anoint_v with_o honey_n and_o then_o expose_v to_o be_v torture_v with_o fly_n and_o gnat_n for_o so_o it_o serve_v i_o first_o it_o declare_v my_o opinion_n reasonable_a candid_o it_o testify_v that_o i_o aim_v at_o show_v the_o fabric_n of_o the_o world_n to_o be_v a_o perfect_a work_n of_o wisdom_n and_o not_o a_o wilful_a and_o arbitrary_a government_n thus_o far_o be_v honey_n for_o if_o i_o do_v perform_v it_o questionless_a i_o play_v the_o part_n of_o a_o good_a divine_a if_o i_o do_v not_o at_o least_o he_o give_v i_o the_o commendation_n of_o intend_v it_o some_o part_n of_o my_o opinion_n he_o explicate_v not_o well_o but_o i_o conceive_v it_o be_v our_o of_o mistake_n one_o thing_n he_o fumble_v in_o which_o be_v plain_a enough_o whereas_o i_o put_v in_o a_o sin_n three_o part_n the_o strong_a and_o resolute_a affection_n relic_n in_o the_o soul_n after_o the_o resolution_n be_v change_v and_o last_o the_o outward_a action_n and_o give_v to_o all_o these_o for_o punishment_n their_o several_a proper_a effect_n so_o that_o the_o resolution_n which_o be_v proper_o the_o sin_n may_v be_v forgive_v and_o cancel_v and_o
of_o so_o great_a a_o charity_n that_o it_o may_v deserve_v the_o concession_n of_o any_o indulgence_n never_o so_o large_a and_o that_o the_o pope_n intend_v never_o to_o give_v any_o large_a indulgence_n then_o what_o may_v be_v discreet_o give_v in_o regard_n of_o such_o a_o act_n include_v the_o charity_n with_o which_o it_o be_v do_v now_o the_o question_n be_v wherein_o consist_v the_o difference_n of_o these_o two_o explication_n the_o pope_n give_v proportionable_a to_o the_o desert_n of_o the_o act_n and_o the_o pope_n give_v what_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v give_v according_a to_o the_o proportion_n of_o the_o act._n and_o consider_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o mean_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o quantity_n of_o the_o charity_n nor_o of_o what_o part_n of_o christ_n satisfaction_n be_v proportion_v to_o a_o know_a degree_n of_o charity_n i_o believe_v the_o pope_n judgement_n must_v be_v refer_v to_o christ_n judgement_n which_o be_v know_v to_o be_v proportion_v to_o that_o charity_n make_v the_o effect_n of_o the_o prayer_n according_a to_o the_o desert_n of_o the_o prayer_n i_o not_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o way_n of_o explicate_v this_o same_o verity_n may_v be_v make_v with_o take_v a_o great_a or_o lesser_a compass_n or_o by_o divers_a medium_n in_o one_o way_n then_o in_o the_o other_o but_o that_o the_o effect_n be_v not_o the_o same_o in_o both_o that_o be_v it_o whereof_o i_o be_o not_o capable_a whether_o the_o reason_n father_v upon_o caietan_n why_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o publish_v this_o doctrine_n be_v good_a or_o no_o concern_v not_o i_o to_o dispute_v but_o rather_o to_o execute_v for_o when_o nicety_n which_o be_v beyond_o the_o ordinary_a capacity_n be_v dispute_v before_o unlearned_a and_o unstudious_a people_n they_o will_v be_v sure_a to_o follow_v the_o easy_a part_n let_v the_o truth_n lie_v where_o it_o will_n the_o author_n of_o the_o catholic_n history_n be_v so_o favourable_a to_o this_o explication_n of_o adrian_n the_o six_o that_o he_o cit_v for_o the_o same_o st._n bâ—…nture_n richâ—rdus_n gabriel_n maior_n gersâ—…_n felinus_n and_o pope_n innocentius_n and_o think_v the_o cause_n why_o adrian_n do_v not_o decide_v this_o question_n be_v because_o divers_a divine_n hold_v the_o contrary_a opinion_n which_o if_o the_o other_o history_n be_v true_a can_v be_v so_o for_o he_o be_v resolve_v to_o have_v determine_v it_o before_o though_o he_o can_v never_o be_v ignorant_a that_o other_o hold_v the_o contrary_a have_v himself_o set_v down_o four_o divers_a opinion_n of_o catholic_n concern_v indulgence_n 14._o to_o apply_v this_o story_n to_o our_o purpose_n i_o understand_v that_o these_o two_o explication_n differ_v not_o in_o the_o effect_n but_o only_o in_o the_o way_n to_o the_o end_n the_o definition_n of_o leo_n the_o ten_o be_v truth_n in_o both_o and_o so_o when_o he_o say_v that_o indulgence_n be_v grant_v out_o of_o the_o treasure_n of_o christ_n merit_n it_o be_v true_a whether_o those_o merit_n be_v that_o which_o give_v the_o efficacity_n to_o the_o pope_n grant_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v that_o it_o be_v the_o matter_n he_o use_v likewise_o when_o it_o be_v say_v indulgence_n receive_v profit_v the_o live_n that_o be_v true_a and_o maintain_v whether_o the_o debt_n be_v pay_v by_o commutative_a justice_n giving_z god_n one_o thing_n for_o another_o or_o whether_o god_n cancel_v the_o debt_n by_o good_a will_n as_o please_v with_o the_o action_n do_v neither_o be_v there_o any_o substantial_a difference_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o dead_a by_o what_o mean_v the_o good_a they_o receive_v from_o the_o live_n come_v to_o they_o so_o it_o come_v from_o the_o living_n receive_v the_o indulgence_n whether_o i_o mean_v it_o come_v by_o the_o virtue_n of_o the_o action_n do_v by_o the_o receiver_n of_o the_o indulgence_n or_o by_o the_o like_a commutation_n as_o some_o divine_n put_v in_o the_o live_n 15._o i_o be_v about_o to_o have_v make_v a_o distinct_a explication_n of_o this_o question_n in_o this_o place_n but_o be_v press_v here_o to_o clear_v the_o authority_n and_o expect_v there_o will_v be_v a_o place_n for_o reason_n hereafter_o though_o not_o in_o his_o doctrine_n yet_o when_o he_o come_v to_o oppose_v i_o and_o foresee_v that_o the_o explication_n will_v make_v this_o chapter_n very_o long_o i_o think_v better_a to_o defer_v it_o and_o to_o go_v on_o with_o the_o answer_n of_o his_o authority_n only_o i_o will_v entreat_v you_o to_o comfort_v the_o good_a soul_n and_o tell_v he_o that_o if_o i_o can_v have_v foresee_v those_o lamentable_a tear_n which_o he_o shed_v for_o my_o sake_n i_o will_v have_v do_v my_o endeavour_n to_o have_v present_v he_o with_o some_o crumb_n of_o comfort_n beforehand_o that_o may_v have_v stop_v the_o dissolve_v of_o the_o melt_a humour_n now_o i_o shall_v present_v he_o with_o a_o clean_a handkerchief_n to_o dry_v his_o water_a cheek_n and_o it_o be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o author_n of_o the_o catholic_n history_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n on_o the_o bull_n of_o pope_n leo_n which_o so_o much_o distemper_n his_o brain_n this_o author_n then_o who_o authority_n i_o doubt_v not_o but_o be_v sacred_a to_o he_o in_o his_o first_o book_n ch._n 21._o n._n 4._o be_v to_o give_v a_o account_n why_o the_o form_n of_o the_o condemnation_n of_o luther_n proposition_n be_v give_v respective_o without_o qualify_a every_o proposition_n with_o a_o singular_a censure_n have_v these_o word_n the_o pope_n therefore_o intend_v not_o by_o his_o constitution_n to_o take_v away_o all_o doubt_n of_o which_o kind_n of_o doubt_n god_n will_n be_v that_o all_o the_o knowledge_n of_o this_o life_n shall_v be_v full_a and_o chief_o divinity_n as_o that_o which_o have_v her_o object_n more_o obscure_a and_o more_o above_o our_o understanding_n but_o only_o intend_v we_o shall_v have_v as_o much_o certain_a as_o be_v enough_o that_o be_v he_o declare_v those_o sentence_n to_o be_v perâ—…cious_a to_o teach_v and_o dangerous_a to_o believe_v now_o in_o case_n all_o that_o this_o bull_n condemn_v if_o it_o be_v not_o otherwise_o know_v to_o be_v false_a may_v be_v true_a let_v he_o wipe_v his_o eye_n with_o the_o charitable_a conceit_n that_o he_o who_o hold_v any_o of_o they_o may_v have_v find_v that_o true_o those_o which_o he_o hold_v be_v true_a and_o therefore_o now_o no_o more_o dangerous_a to_o believe_v and_o much_o less_o to_o teach_v and_o out_o of_o this_o charitable_a persuasion_n keep_v his_o fool-pious_a expression_n to_o entertain_v child_n with_o as_o for_o his_o reader_n he_o send_v they_o away_o to_o b._n fisher_n to_o know_v what_o opinion_n i_o hold_v for_o otherwise_o i_o do_v not_o know_v how_o he_o can_v teach_v they_o that_o i_o hold_v proposition_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n that_o luther_n do_v it_o seem_v it_o be_v the_o mode_n of_o this_o age_n to_o look_v the_o far_a off_o they_o can_v from_o a_o author_n and_o his_o write_n when_o they_o will_v determine_v what_o his_o meaning_n be_v 16._o in_o his_o eighth_z n._n he_o ask_v who_o can_v say_v the_o doctrine_n contrary_a to_o all_o these_o article_n 〈◊〉_d not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o my_o answer_n be_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o doubt_v not_o of_o it_o but_o whosoever_o believe_v the_o author_n of_o the_o catholic_n history_n of_o trent_n will_v tell_v he_o he_o do_v not_o know_v why_o these_o article_n be_v not_o of_o those_o which_o god_n will_v have_v to_o be_v doubtful_a and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o blasphemy_n to_o call_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o be_v as_o yet_o uncertain_a and_o as_o far_o as_o we_o know_v false_a nevertheless_o he_o will_v now_o put_v it_o out_o of_o all_o doubt_n for_o he_o tell_v you_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v express_o decree_n that_o not_o only_o in_o the_o censure_v of_o a_o few_o article_n but_o even_o in_o the_o censure_v of_o whole_a multitude_n of_o book_n all_o christian_n shall_v stand_v to_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o every_o doubt_n of_o that_o nature_n shall_v be_v terminate_v and_o quite_o end_v by_o his_o judgement_n and_o authority_n and_o after_o some_o few_o line_n he_o add_v and_o this_o must_v be_v admit_v as_o undoubted_a by_o those_o who_o will_n and_o must_v admit_v this_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n you_o see_v a_o horrible_a charge_n will_v you_o know_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o business_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v give_v the_o charge_n to_o a_o committee_n to_o review_v such_o book_n as_o they_o think_v fit_v to_o have_v conversant_a in_o the_o hand_n of_o catholic_n when_o they_o be_v ready_a to_o break_v off_o these_o man_n come_v in_o and_o tell_v the_o council_n
they_o have_v perform_v their_o charge_n but_o because_o it_o be_v time_n to_o end_n the_o council_n refer_v the_o execution_n of_o the_o decree_n to_o the_o pope_n as_o also_o of_o the_o set_n forth_o the_o catechism_n and_o reform_v the_o 〈◊〉_d and_o the_o breviary_n and_o order_v the_o pope_n determination_n in_o 〈◊〉_d question_n that_o rise_v aboâ—…_n these_o book_n shall_v be_v hold_v for_o deciâ—…_n 17._o if_o i_o have_v be_v leave_v to_o my_o own_o judgement_n i_o shall_v have_v think_v this_o no_o great_a honour_n to_o the_o pope_n further_o than_o as_o it_o be_v a_o good_a action_n in_o he_o to_o concur_v to_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o the_o pope_n have_v refuse_v it_o they_o must_v have_v appoint_v some_o congregation_n to_o have_v do_v the_o same_o as_o we_o see_v the_o inquisition_n and_o provincial_a council_n to_o have_v do_v the_o like_a in_o divers_a country_n now_o your_o great_a divine_a find_v in_o this_o great_a mystery_n that_o the_o council_n give_v the_o pope_n authority_n to_o determine_v the_o verity_n of_o all_o proposition_n be_v there_o ever_o such_o a_o pâ—ece_n oâ—_n mountebankery_n or_o be_v not_o the_o pope_n well_o seâ—_n up_o to_o have_v get_v such_o champion_n to_o proclaim_v his_o power_n and_o authority_n and_o what_o again_o hâ—…_n divinity_n make_v that_o now_o we_o have_v so_o many_o article_n of_o faith_n confirm_v by_o the_o definition_n a_o general_n council_n that_o must_v be_v receive_v as_o there_o be_v sentence_n either_o put_v out_o or_o allow_v in_o the_o book_n censure_v in_o the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la i_o must_v not_o conceal_v his_o demonstration_n for_o this_o learned_a conclusion_n can_v say_v he_o the_o council_n give_v he_o authority_n to_o do_v that_o after_o the_o sit_v of_o the_o council_n which_o by_o his_o own_o authority_n he_o can_v not_o 〈◊〉_d by_o himself_o before_o the_o council_n and_o out_o of_o this_o infer_v that_o the_o pope_n do_v it_o by_o his_o own_o authority_n as_o for_o his_o question_n i_o will_v not_o meddle_v with_o it_o but_o hold_v it_o at_o present_a for_o one_o of_o those_o doubtful_a article_n which_o god_n will_v not_o have_v know_v though_o he_o may_v find_v many_o divine_n who_o will_v answer_v he_o that_o the_o council_n can_v but_o what_o i_o be_o certain_a of_o be_v that_o the_o council_n can_v not_o give_v he_o that_o which_o he_o have_v before_o and_o therefore_o your_o divine_a contradict_v himself_o in_o allege_v the_o council_n for_o give_v the_o power_n and_o say_v he_o have_v it_o before_o 18._o the_o follow_a number_n until_o the_o twelve_o be_v but_o repetition_n of_o the_o same_o only_o one_o argument_n of_o his_o ten_o number_n be_v worth_a the_o nothing_o where_o he_o ask_v who_o can_v say_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n approve_v not_o the_o the_o pope_n proceed_v in_o this_o point_n it_o be_v answer_v only_o they_o that_o read_v the_o council_n or_o otherwise_o have_v understand_v that_o the_o council_n never_o take_v notice_n neither_o to_o nor_o fro_o what_o the_o pope_n have_v do_v in_o this_o kind_n but_o he_o urge_v that_o the_o council_n leave_v to_o the_o pope_n the_o order_n of_o the_o fault_n and_o abuse_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n and_o who_o know_v not_o who_o know_v any_o thing_n of_o those_o time_n that_o the_o pope_n promise_v to_o reform_v what_o belong_v to_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n by_o himself_o so_o that_o the_o council_n have_v no_o need_n to_o meddle_v in_o such_o point_n in_o which_o it_o be_v expect_v the_o pope_n will_v do_v well_o of_o himself_o now_o whether_o the_o pope_n reform_v all_o that_o deserve_a reformation_n or_o no_o be_v a_o thing_n impertinent_a to_o our_o question_n in_o which_o there_o be_v all_o agreement_n to_o the_o pope_n decree_n and_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n not_o fit_v to_o be_v make_v public_a table-talk_a as_o our_o book_n be_v like_a to_o be_v 19_o in_o the_o twelve_o number_n he_o seek_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o no_o wonder_n he_o can_v find_v any_o great_a antiquity_n for_o they_o see_v caietan_n and_o our_o holy_a bishop_n of_o rochester_n have_v look_v before_o he_o and_o can_v find_v none_o caietan_n word_n be_v opusc._n 16_o 〈◊〉_d no_o holy_a scripture_n no_o write_a authority_n of_o ancient_a doctor_n either_o greek_a or_o latin_a have_v bring_v this_o the_o beginning_n of_o indulgence_n to_o our_o knowledge_n but_o this_o only_o concern_v ancient_a father_n be_v write_v some_o three_o hundred_o year_n since_o that_o st._n gregory_n begin_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o station_n these_o indulgence_n be_v as_o i_o remember_v of_o seven_o year_n penance_n remission_n for_o visit_v certain_a church_n no_o mention_n of_o any_o for_o the_o dead_a grant_v by_o st._n gregory_n but_o what_o say_v the_o great_a bishop_n it_o persuade_v say_v he_o â—er_o adventure_v â—any_n not_o to_o trust_v very_o much_o to_o these_o indulgence_n that_o the_o use_n of_o they_o seem_v to_o be_v too_o new_a and_o very_o late_o invent_v among_o christian_n i_o answer_v say_v he_o that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a who_o first_o begin_v they_o and_o some_o say_v that_o among_o the_o most_o ancient_a roman_n there_o be_v some_o kind_n of_o use_n of_o they_o nor_o do_v any_o man_n doubt_v but_o that_o late_a wit_n have_v both_o better_o examine_v and_o clear_o understand_v many_o thing_n both_o out_o of_o the_o gospel_n and_o other_o scripture_n than_o their_o predecessor_n so_o that_o you_o see_v this_o great_a man_n think_v that_o the_o scripture_n explicate_v only_o by_o hâ—man_n wit_n be_v the_o solid_a foundation_n upon_o which_o indulgence_n be_v to_o be_v ground_v for_o want_v of_o ancient_a testimony_n not_o so_o your_o divine_a but_o he_o can_v prove_v it_o out_o of_o ancient_a record_n and_o first_o of_o paschal_n the_o first_o some_o eight_o hundred_o or_o more_o year_n since_o which_o be_v a_o very_a long_a time_n as_o he_o well_o note_n for_o the_o church_n to_o be_v in_o error_n this_o paschal_n be_v say_v to_o have_v give_v a_o indulgence_n to_o the_o church_n of_o st._n praxedes_o in_o rome_n for_o the_o free_n of_o one_o soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n but_o the_o ill_a â—â—ch_a be_v that_o this_o monument_n be_v account_v to_o be_v apocryphal_a in_o rome_n itself_o and_o not_o esteem_v of_o by_o man_n accurate_a in_o history_n of_o that_o nature_n and_o so_o neither_o caietan_n who_o be_v very_o inquisitive_a nor_o baroâ—…_n ever_o allege_v it_o and_o faber_n story_n of_o its_o be_v approve_v by_o eleven_o pope_n if_o proper_o understand_v must_v needs_o declare_v as_o much_o see_v it_o be_v impossible_a any_o writer_n live_v in_o rome_n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o so_o notorious_a a_o thing_n but_o i_o pray_v take_v notice_n by_o the_o way_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o these_o man_n to_o abhor_v it_o see_v how_o they_o keep_v the_o soul_n of_o those_o who_o will_v believe_v they_o in_o a_o egyptiacal_a slavery_n persuade_v they_o that_o if_o this_o pope_n have_v commit_v a_o private_a fault_n the_o church_n have_v be_v in_o a_o error_n 〈◊〉_d year_n even_o though_o no_o more_o know_v of_o the_o pope_n mistake_n then_o have_v hear_v of_o this_o piece_n of_o paper_n lie_v in_o a_o private_a sacristy_n as_o to_o bellâ—râ—ine's_n approbation_n we_o answer_v he_o be_v to_o be_v thank_v for_o his_o pain_n of_o gather_v so_o many_o thing_n together_o not_o to_o be_v propose_v for_o a_o authority_n for_o the_o reason_n i_o allege_v above_o in_o the_o like_a occasion_n 20._o the_o next_o instance_n be_v out_o of_o baronius_n or_o spondanus_n in_o the_o year_n 878_o how_o pope_n john_n the_o eight_o give_v a_o indulgence_n to_o all_o who_o hâ—p_n it_o have_v bâ—en_v to_o die_v in_o the_o war_n for_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o church_n or_o who_o hap_n it_o shall_v be_v hereafter_o before_o we_o look_v into_o this_o testimony_n i_o must_v not_o omit_v to_o note_v that_o this_o very_a spondanus_n be_v breed_v a_o minister_n be_v very_o conversant_a with_o beauties_n work_n and_o after_o his_o conversion_n with_o his_o person_n and_o as_o it_o be_v report_v have_v baronius_n his_o approbation_n to_o the_o compendium_n of_o his_o history_n which_o he_o make_v and_o clear_v it_o be_v such_o a_o man_n must_v needs_o â—e_v zealous_a to_o put_v in_o his_o work_n whatsoever_o be_v to_o help_v the_o catholic_n cause_n and_o this_o if_o it_o be_v not_o in_o baronius_n in_o note_n of_o his_o own_o as_o he_o do_v divers_a time_n this_o i_o note_v to_o let_v you_o understand_v that_o this_o man_n can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o former_a testimony_n of_o paschalis_n and_o live_v in_o rome_n when_o i_o first_o go_v thither_o after_o bellarmin_n death_n can_v want_v no_o commodity_n to_o search_v
will_v follow_v out_o of_o both_o join_v together_o his_o proposition_n be_v that_o these_o revelation_n be_v undeniable_a because_o the_o author_n be_v know_v to_o be_v of_o great_a virtue_n and_o integrity_n who_o for_o a_o world_n will_v not_o recommend_v what_o they_o think_v to_o be_v a_o lie_n or_o not_o as_o they_o deliver_v it_o and_o the_o relatour_n be_v either_o those_o who_o have_v the_o vision_n or_o some_o who_o have_v it_o from_o they_o immediate_o so_o that_o there_o can_v likewise_o be_v no_o moral_a difficulty_n or_o doubt_n of_o their_o true_a relate_n this_o proposition_n i_o full_o acknowledge_v and_o a_o man_n will_v think_v that_o in_o so_o do_v i_o give_v he_o full_a content_n here_o must_v i_o advance_v my_o proposition_n which_o if_o it_o please_v he_o as_o well_o as_o he_o do_v i_o i_o hope_v we_o shall_v agree_v in_o the_o conclusion_n to_o be_v draw_v out_o of_o both_o i_o then_o be_v that_o revelation_n vision_n apparition_n &c._n &c._n can_v be_v certain_a to_o any_o body_n but_o only_o to_o who_o they_o be_v make_v and_o by_o consequence_n it_o be_v a_o folly_n to_o seek_v to_o prove_v they_o to_o any_o one_o who_o do_v not_o of_o his_o own_o good_a nature_n take_v they_o for_o true_a as_o for_o the_o party_n to_o who_o the_o revelation_n be_v make_v i_o doubt_v not_o but_o god_n may_v have_v such_o a_o kind_n of_o influence_n as_o to_o make_v it_o beyond_o all_o doubt_n that_o it_o be_v himself_o who_o speak_v to_o the_o party_n but_o that_o it_o must_v not_o rely_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o this_o party_n whatsoever_o be_v communicate_v to_o other_o that_o be_v the_o position_n i_o deny_v i_o say_v therefore_o the_o security_n of_o a_o revelation_n may_v be_v as_o great_a as_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o party_n to_o who_o it_o be_v make_v and_o it_o must_v be_v certain_a to_o other_o that_o such_o a_o party_n neither_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v deceive_v in_o this_o kind_n before_o we_o can_v make_v any_o argument_n from_o the_o revelation_n out_o of_o these_o two_o proposition_n i_o gather_v this_o conclusion_n that_o private_a relation_n for_o the_o most_o part_n can_v neither_o be_v prove_v nor_o deny_v and_o therefore_o make_v nothing_o probable_a or_o improbable_a and_o so_o by_o divine_n be_v to_o be_v let_v alone_o and_o lay_v by_o to_o let_v the_o historian_n first_o resolve_n of_o they_o whether_o they_o be_v true_a or_o false_a which_o be_v impossible_a to_o do_v unless_o there_o be_v some_o outward_a effect_n which_o seldom_o happen_v in_o matter_n of_o purgatory_n of_o which_o we_o treat_v 3._o i_o must_v add_v one_o note_n about_o his_o undeniable_a story_n that_o divers_a of_o his_o author_n be_v know_v sometime_o to_o have_v miscarry_v in_o their_o revelation_n as_o by_o name_n st._n brigit_fw-la and_o st._n bernard_n as_o likewise_o st._n catharin_n of_o sena_n st._n mathildis_n and_o other_o and_o since_o i_o know_v no_o more_o assurance_n for_o other_o then_o for_o these_o i_o believe_v that_o prudent_a man_n will_v neither_o doubt_n but_o that_o divers_a revelation_n be_v true_a nor_o precipitate_v easy_o to_o believe_v that_o this_o in_o particular_a be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o such_o nevertheless_o i_o except_v those_o apparition_n which_o come_v out_o with_o authority_n beyond_o exception_n as_o i_o have_v light_n upon_o one_o which_o the_o author_n brag_v of_o that_o its_o authority_n be_v not_o beg_v from_o ancient_a writer_n but_o signify_v by_o present_a experience_n rhe_n year_n the_o author_n print_v the_o seven_o edition_n of_o his_o book_n so_o that_o it_o may_v be_v of_o as_o great_a authority_n as_o our_o author_n latin_a book_n which_o be_v translate_v into_o many_o language_n it_o come_v to_o sevill_n where_o father_n martin_n de_fw-fr roa_n a_o great_a jesuit_n print_v his_o brave_a book_n in_o the_o year_n 1634_o on_o monday_n the_o twenty_o nine_o of_o may_n when_o his_o seven_o edition_n be_v quite_o do_v and_o so_o it_o be_v fain_o to_o be_v put_v after_o the_o end_n to_o give_v you_o a_o faithful_a testimony_n of_o the_o duration_n of_o the_o pain_n of_o purgatory_n the_o title_n of_o the_o book_n be_v estado_n de_fw-fr las_fw-fr almas_fw-la de_fw-fr purgatorio_fw-la and_o you_o may_v have_v in_o it_o both_o for_o theological_a resolution_n and_o for_o fine_a story_n concern_v purgatory_n what_o your_o heart_n can_v wish_v have_v tell_v you_o where_o you_o may_v find_v what_o you_o want_v i_o may_v contract_v the_o story_n itself_o not_o forget_v that_o it_o past_a at_o vienna_n in_o austria_n in_o the_o jesuit_n house_n there_o which_o i_o do_v not_o know_v for_o they_o have_v three_o in_o that_o town_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o story_n carry_v that_o a_o woman_n one_o hundred_o and_o thirty_o four_o year_n before_o have_v kill_v she_o two_o child_n with_o poison_n and_o die_v six_o and_o thirty_o year_n and_o a_o half_a afterward_o have_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n and_o suffer_v incredible_a torment_n ninety_o four_o year_n and_o four_o month_n and_o the_o author_n note_n that_o sure_o they_o all_o three_o have_v no_o body_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o that_o they_o lie_v so_o long_o in_o purgatory_n first_o appear_v one_o of_o the_o son_n to_o a_o lay_v brother_n as_o he_o go_v to_o see_v whether_o all_o door_n be_v well_o shut_v and_o lay_v hand_n on_o he_o to_o carry_v he_o to_o the_o church_n but_o be_v content_v with_o the_o promise_n of_o three_o mass_n let_v he_o go_v to_o bed_n yet_o as_o it_o seem_v repent_v of_o his_o bargain_n two_o hour_n after_o come_v to_o his_o bed_n to_o get_v he_o out_o of_o his_o bed_n to_o go_v to_o the_o church_n though_o be_v feed_v with_o the_o promise_n of_o four_o mass_n more_o it_o leave_v he_o but_o so_o break_v with_o resist_v the_o violence_n of_o the_o spirit_n that_o he_o can_v not_o stir_v himself_o some_o three_o week_n after_o he_o come_v again_o two_o several_a night_n with_o the_o like_a violence_n and_o some_o eight_o day_n after_o come_v again_o as_o it_o seem_v more_o gentle_o and_o wake_v he_o out_o of_o his_o sleep_n bid_v he_o say_v nothing_o and_o follow_v he_o but_o the_o brother_n speak_v and_o ask_v what_o he_o be_v vanish_v away_o now_o whether_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n want_v civility_n to_o treat_v one_o so_o rude_o of_o who_o they_o desire_v succour_v or_o that_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v how_o to_o insinuate_v themselves_o without_o fright_v of_o people_n i_o leave_v to_o your_o divine_a for_o the_o author_n give_v no_o account_n nor_o likewise_o why_o he_o can_v not_o endure_v to_o be_v speak_v to_o a_o while_n after_o the_o spirit_n come_v to_o his_o chamber_n and_o lead_v he_o silent_a into_o the_o church_n where_o be_v other_o two_o spirit_n but_o all_o vanish_v as_o soon_o as_o the_o brother_n be_v fright_v cry_v out_o and_o he_o be_v find_v on_o the_o floor_n in_o a_o town_n from_o which_o the_o physician_n free_v he_o yet_o be_v he_o not_o for_o some_o day_n able_a to_o go_v he_o be_v so_o weaken_v eight_o day_n after_o he_o have_v a_o new_a vision_n and_o the_o next_o night_n the_o apparition_n of_o two_o of_o the_o spirit_n who_o after_o a_o great_a entreat_v that_o he_o will_v not_o speak_v tell_v he_o the_o story_n above_o mention_v and_o have_v entreat_v some_o prayer_n and_o that_o he_o will_v keep_v fast_o and_o silence_v 34_o hour_n let_v he_o alone_o so_o long_o and_o then_o appear_v all_o glorious_a though_o two_o of_o they_o before_o have_v appear_v all_o white_a and_o the_o first_o ever_o yet_o they_o be_v all_o three_o deliver_v together_o it_o seem_v the_o two_o child_n expect_v their_o mother_n they_o tell_v he_o how_o they_o mean_v to_o have_v lead_v he_o to_o their_o mother_n grave_n who_o he_o shall_v have_v see_v in_o such_o a_o case_n that_o it_o will_v have_v kill_v he_o if_o they_o have_v not_o negotiate_v for_o his_o life_n by_o the_o intercession_n of_o their_o good_a angel_n because_o it_o be_v reveal_v unto_o they_o that_o by_o his_o prayer_n they_o shall_v that_o year_n be_v set_v free_a 4._o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o the_o great_a divine_a will_v out_o of_o this_o revelation_n draw_v high_a point_n of_o divinity_n and_o enrich_v the_o art_n of_o apparition_n great_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v more_o certain_a than_o venerable_a bede_n revelation_n see_v at_o least_o three_o housefull_a of_o jesuit_n be_v witness_n to_o the_o whole_a process_n therefore_o it_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o it_o be_v as_o strong_a a_o princple_n of_o divinity_n as_o any_o if_o not_o all_o the_o revelation_n hitherto_o cite_v and_o set_v forth_o express_o to_o inform_v the_o christian_a world_n of_o the_o condition_n of_o purgatory_n i_o pray_v then_o use_v your_o diligence_n to_o your_o great_a
and_o pain_n which_o he_o suffer_v out_o of_o which_o doctrine_n depend_v a_o very_a ill_a consequence_n that_o not_o only_a christ_n fancy_n but_o even_o his_o concupiscible_a part_n be_v subject_a to_o tentation_n and_o passion_n now_o if_o your_o divine_a do_v not_o hold_v this_o why_o do_v he_o apply_v it_o here_o to_o show_v that_o the_o constancy_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n can_v abate_v their_o suffering_n from_o extern_a cause_n and_o turn_v they_o to_o pleasure_n another_o pitiful_a answer_n he_o add_v that_o 〈◊〉_d torment_v of_o purgatory_n do_v not_o cause_v the_o entrance_n to_o heaven_n but_o only_o remove_v what_o hinder_v it_o as_o if_o he_o that_o dester_v heaven_n be_v not_o glad_a to_o have_v the_o hindrance_n take_v away_o 3._o in_o his_o three_o number_n he_o pâ—etends_v to_o answer_v the_o improportion_n betwixt_o corporeal_a pain_n and_o spiritual_a offence_n but_o by_o his_o great_a skill_n in_o miss_v of_o the_o question_n his_o first_o answer_n return_v the_o question_n upon_o we_o as_o if_o we_o hold_v that_o some_o be_v burn_v more_o grievous_o or_o long_o than_o other_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n the_o which_o be_v a_o pure_a mistake_n of_o our_o doctrine_n as_o i_o have_v often_o repeat_v his_o second_o objection_n be_v of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o bless_a and_o damn_a the_o which_o he_o mistake_v also_o think_v those_o pain_n and_o glory_n to_o be_v immediate_o proportion_v to_o the_o act_n of_o virtue_n or_o vice_n which_o they_o be_v not_o but_o the_o immediate_a proportion_n be_v of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o bless_a or_o damn_a soul_n in_o their_o life_n and_o in_o their_o end_a state_n now_o as_o these_o act_n be_v strong_a so_o do_v they_o diffuse_v into_o their_o body_n different_a quality_n and_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o body_n be_v proportionable_o reward_v not_o that_o the_o good_a or_o ill_o of_o the_o body_n have_v any_o proportion_n to_o the_o merit_n or_o demirit_n but_o because_o the_o disposition_n of_o the_o body_n follow_v 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o final_a act_n and_o disposition_n of_o the_o soul_n which_o have_v proportion_n 4._o he_o press_v scripture_n first_o out_o of_o the_o apocalypse_v where_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o corporeal_a and_o spiritual_a but_o mere_o of_o demerit_n and_o punishment_n second_o from_o job_n chap._n 〈◊〉_d desire_v that_o his_o offence_n and_o punishment_n â—…ight_v be_v weigh_v in_o a_o pair_n of_o sâ—ales_n what_o shall_v i_o say_v if_o your_o divine_a be_v ask_v whether_o the_o least_o venial_a sin_n be_v not_o worse_o than_o all_o the_o torment_v job_n suffer_v he_o will_v say_v questionless_a yes_o what_o then_o do_v he_o mean_v to_o make_v of_o this_o say_n of_o job_n that_o job_n be_v a_o fool_n to_o make_v such_o a_o proposition_n sure_o in_o his_o way_n no_o less_o can_v be_v understand_v but_o that_o we_o may_v not_o only_o confute_v simplicity_n but_o deliver_v true_a doctrine_n we_o must_v tell_v he_o that_o job_n cast_v his_o eye_n upon_o the_o providence_n god_n use_v over_o the_o good_a and_o bad_a in_o this_o world_n to_o show_v to_o his_o unpitiful_a friend_n that_o those_o harm_n be_v not_o come_v upon_o he_o for_o his_o excess_n of_o misbehaviour_n beyond_o other_o but_o out_o of_o god_n special_a pleasure_n so_o that_o this_o example_n be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o our_o question_n since_o it_o speak_v nothing_o but_o of_o god_n external_a providence_n in_o this_o world_n 5._o like_o to_o this_o be_v his_o next_o out_o of_o levititus_n where_o to_o several_a sin_n several_a offering_n be_v parallel_v the_o which_o it_o seem_v he_o will_v have_v to_o be_v understand_v as_o if_o the_o gift_n be_v the_o true_a worth_n of_o the_o offence_n which_o i_o believe_v our_o casuist_n and_o ghostly_a father_n will_v not_o allow_v of_o another_o objection_n be_v from_o the_o proposition_n make_v by_o our_o divine_n to_o the_o greek_n and_o by_o they_o not_o admit_v which_o in_o great_a word_n he_o vent_v say_v all_o the_o latinâ—_n church_n stand_v accuse_v of_o folly_n here_o the_o force_n of_o the_o objection_n lie_v in_o the_o word_n folly_n a_o worthy_a objection_n as_o the_o most_o of_o his_o be_v for_o no_o man_n doubt_n but_o every_o speculative_a proposition_n which_o be_v false_a may_v be_v in_o rigour_n call_v folly_n but_o civility_n give_v this_o name_n only_o to_o such_o falsity_n as_o be_v avoid_v by_o the_o most_o of_o that_o art_n or_o science_n to_o which_o the_o discovery_n of_o such_o folly_n appertain_v now_o to_o make_v a_o argument_n this_o proposition_n must_v be_v term_v folly_n though_o in_o the_o same_o breath_n he_o profess_v few_o do_v avoid_v it_o he_o repeat_v divers_a other_o authority_n which_o as_o far_o as_o we_o get_v the_o book_n we_o examine_v in_o the_o place_n in_o which_o they_o be_v first_o urge_v he_o add_v the_o practice_n of_o indulgence_n but_o every_o man_n know_v they_o be_v proportion_v to_o the_o penitential_a canon_n not_o the_o law_n of_o purgatory_n when_o it_o be_v say_v so_o many_o day_n or_o year_n pardon_v and_o for_o the_o plenary_a delivery_n it_o have_v be_v heretofore_o discuss_v at_o last_o he_o come_v to_o reason_n and_o there_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o god_n look_v not_o on_o the_o physical_a nature_n of_o the_o act_n but_o upon_o the_o moral_a but_o what_o this_o moral_a signify_v he_o declare_v not_o now_o according_a to_o my_o skill_n i_o must_v profess_v that_o i_o take_v it_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a nonsensical_a expression_n when_o it_o be_v apply_v to_o spiritual_a act_n for_o a_o act_n of_o the_o will_n be_v morality_n itself_o and_o how_o much_o it_o be_v physical_o harmful_a to_o the_o soul_n so_o much_o be_v it_o moral_o naught_o and_o how_o far_o profitable_a so_o much_o be_v it_o moral_o good_a so_o that_o to_o distinguish_v moral_a and_o physical_a in_o intrinsical_v act_n of_o the_o will_n be_v but_o to_o give_v a_o bob_n instead_o of_o a_o bit_n a_o name_n instead_o of_o a_o thing_n a_o cover_a mess_n without_o any_o meat_n in_o it_o 6._o in_o his_o four_o number_n your_o divine_a as_o it_o seem_v feel_v himself_o in_o some_o straits_n for_o he_o cry_v for_o room_n and_o not_o without_o effect_n for_o he_o have_v find_v a_o matter_n of_o twenty_o leave_n to_o examine_v one_o discourse_n yet_o i_o fear_v he_o have_v not_o make_v room_n in_o his_o brain_n for_o truth_n which_o be_v so_o elevate_v that_o a_o fancy_n stuff_v with_o corporeal_a imagination_n and_o the_o sound_n of_o unexamined_a word_n can_v afford_v it_o no_o place_n nevertheless_o i_o must_v try_v to_o break_v in_o if_o not_o into_o he_o yet_o into_o our_o common_a auditor_n apprehension_n si_fw-mi qua_fw-la fata_fw-la aspera_fw-la rumpam_fw-la 7._o in_o his_o four_o and_o five_o number_n he_o explicate_v my_o argument_n for_o the_o most_o part_n true_o whether_o sufficient_o or_o no_o our_o encounter_n must_v declare_v number_n six_o he_o begiâ—â—_n his_o hattery_n with_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o have_v show_v it_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n both_o of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o our_o own_o profession_n ch._n 17._o n._n 12._o and_o 13._o where_o our_o answer_n also_o be_v give_v as_o far_o as_o depend_v not_o from_o this_o place_n the_o substance_n of_o it_o be_v that_o a_o present_a relief_n of_o the_o dead_a by_o prayer_n be_v neither_o the_o expectation_n of_o the_o church_n or_o understand_a person_n of_o their_o own_o opinion_n who_o all_o teach_v we_o must_v remit_v circumstance_n and_o substance_n also_o to_o god_n high_a counsel_n and_o will_n and_o beside_o it_o be_v declare_v how_o the_o unchangeableness_n of_o spirit_n hinder_v not_o that_o the_o soul_n have_v relief_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o relief_n at_o the_o very_a time_n of_o prayer_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o very_a sense_n of_o their_o own_o divine_n 8._o after_o this_o your_o divine_a be_v equivocate_v something_o strange_o not_o distinguish_v between_o the_o duration_n of_o a_o spirit_n and_o our_o measure_n of_o that_o duration_n for_o no_o man_n dispute_v this_o with_o he_o whether_o we_o apprehend_v the_o duration_n of_o angel_n or_o soul_n as_o we_o do_v the_o duration_n of_o body_n and_o so_o say_v that_o such_o a_o thing_n or_o action_n endure_v so_o many_o day_n week_n month_n or_o year_n but_o whether_o their_o proper_a duration_n be_v conformable_a to_o our_o apprehension_n or_o that_o our_o apprehension_n be_v as_o to_o the_o truth_n a_o weak_a babble_a fit_n for_o we_o but_o far_o below_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o no_o more_o like_o it_o than_o a_o body_n be_v to_o a_o spirit_n so_o he_o need_v not_o trouble_v himself_o whether_o our_o expression_n be_v by_o true_a time_n for_o they_o be_v by_o that_o same_o time_n by_o which_o we_o measure_v our_o