Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	authority_n	church_n	council_n	1,729	5	6.6396	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A48863	The harmony between the old and present non-conformists principles in relation to the terms of conformity, with respect both to the clergie, and the people : wherein a short history of the original of the English liturgy, and some reasons why several truly conscientious Christians cannot joyn with the church in it : humbly presented to publick consideration in order to the obtaining some necessary relaxation and indulgence : to which are added some letters that pass'd between the Lord Cecil, and Arch-bishop Whitgift.	Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699.; Whitgift, John, 1530?-1604.; Burghley, William Cecil, Baron, 1520-1598.	1682 (1682)	Wing L2726; ESTC R23045	77,527	105

mysteries unto us There is I confess a distinction between Faith and Manners when we come to sort and sever the things contained in the Word into the kinds of duties imposed but when we consider them in the Rule and Principle of the word it self from which the Conscience is certainly inform'd and bound there is no difference but they are all of faith alike even as the same sap which in the branches distinct unto leaves and blossomes was in the Root but one whence it followes that nothing can be properly Canonical unto manners but the same was first Canonical unto faith for we therefore stand undoubtedly perswaded that thus we ought to do because we first believe that God himself would have us to do so and hath reveal'd it to us as his will By this it seems evident that the distinction between Canon of faith and of manners as us'd by the Bishops is idle and impertinent and that therefore notwithstanding all has been said by Mr. Hutton it remains as an undoubted truth that the Service Book doth consider the Apocripha as Canonical as a part of the Holy Scriptures the pure Word of God which is no more than what may be inferred from their confounding the Apocriphal with the Canonical books as may be seen in their great Bible Authorized to be read where dividing the books of the Old Testament into Legal Historical Sapiential and Prophetical In the Historical they place 19 books amongst which they reckon the third and fourth books of Esdras the books of Tobith and Judith the two books of Maccabees and the rest of the Chapters of Esther making the book of Esther to consist of 16 Chapters and then to be part of that book In the Sapiential they place 5 books whereof they reckon the books of Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for two calling the book of Wisdom the Wisdom of Solomon In the Prophetical they place 18 books of which they reckon Baruch the Prophet and Susanna Bell and the Dragon making the same all one with Daniel consisting of 14 Chapters What can be more clear than this sayes the Defender of the Reasons c. Where to sayes the same Author if we add the book of Homilies how it divers times calleth these Apocriphal Books Holy Scriptures in the same sense wherein the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are so called saying in the alledging Tobith and Ecclesiasticus the Holy Ghost speaketh so in the Scriptures thereby giving the same Authority and Title with Zechary Luke 1. and the Author to the Hebrews Ch. 3. 7. give to the Holy Prophets in their writing of places out of the Old Testament Thus 't is evident That according to the Service Book and the Sentiments of some great Bishops the great Bible and Book of Homilies the Apocripha is consider'd as a part of the Holy Scriptures The which truth abides in its strength notwithstanding what is argued from the Book of Articles where 't is sufficiently manifest that the Apocripha are no part of the Holy Scriptures for this doth but discover the contradiction there is between the book of Articles and the Service book c. whereby the Non-Conformists are but supply'd with an unanswerable argument against subscription which I 'll give in the words of the Devonshire Ministers viz. That to subscribe to the Service Book is contrary to our Subscription to the Book of Articles the 6 Article whereof under the name of Holy Scriptures understanding only the Canonical Books of the Old and New Testament there mentioned whereof the Apocrypha Books are none and therefore they conclude they cannot safely subscribe because they shall subscribe to two books one contrary to another This being so clear namely that the Apochripha Books are appointed to be read as a part of the Holy Scriptures and as the Canon and Rule of manners I 'll proceed to shew what has been objected against it Not that I 'll trouble the Reader with all but onely with two or three particulars 1. Hereby their error who account these Books Canonical Scripture is confirm'd This was sayes the Lincoln Abridgment the only reason that moved the third Councill of Carthage to decree that they should be held Canonical because they had received from the Fathers that they were to be read in the Church And Bellarmine makes this one of his best reasons to prove that the authority of these books is Divine and Canonical because they are now and have been of old read by the Church in the publique Assemblies so do the Papists in that Book they have lately Published called the Three Conversions of England And Gregory Martin reasoneth thus Their own Service book saith he appointeth these books of Toby and Ecclesiasticus to be read for Holy Scriptures as the other Do they read in their Churches Apocryphal and Superstitious Books for Holy Scriptures so clear it is that the very Papists are confirm'd in their error by this practise of the Church 2. The reading these books though but as the Canon and Rule manners tends so very much to the corrupting the manners of men in some things that the Dissenters can in no way approve of it In the defence of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers reasons 't is thus argued If the Apocriphal Books be Canonical as teaching manners then whatsoever point of manners those books do commend unto us either by Precept or allowed Example we not only may but must observe it for Conscience sake as a divine Rule or Canon 'T is true hereby a late Order which was that the wicked Dissenters if poor receive not Almes will be defended for 't is but according to the command in Ecclesiasticus 12. 5. where 't is expresly said Give not to the Vngodly hold back thy bread and give it not unto him least he over-master thee thereby But how agreable this Precept is unto the pure word of God or the light of nature let a common capacity judge but though this practice is enjoyn'd to the defence of that but now mention'd order yet there are other allowed and highly approv'd practises which are most odious in the apprehension of the Dissenter and are really abhor'd by all but bloody Papists For Judiths tricking up her self on purpose to tempt and ensnare the heart of Holofernes to uncleanness her compassing an Irreligious Governour by fraud by lies by oaths and protestations in the name of God to the end she might the more assuredly murder him is not only an allowed but a practice highly approv'd of by the book of Judith that is appointed to be read in October The children of Israel though now return'd from the Babylonian Captivity yet to the very time Holofernes was murdered by Judith they remained under the Government of the Emperour The Emperour though an Idolater yet their Lawfull Governour whose Government they should not have shaked off by frauds by lies equivocations and other sinfull practices which yet Judith did to the gaining the greatest applause and

commendation The which is read in the Church as the Rule of manners whereas in truth 't is meet only for the countenancing the unjustifiable treasons of the Papists to which purpose it has been improv'd by Saunders de schismate who inciting the English Ladies professing the Popish Religion to murder Queen Elizabeth and all her Favourers calling her Holofernes the Heretical Prince did prove from this example of Judith that they might do it without any the least stain or blot to their Religion This is urg'd in the defence of the reason of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers from whence I would query whether a person fully convinc'd of that if the book of Judith must be read as the Rule of manners this allowed practice of Judith must be in the like case imitated ought not rather to abandon the reading or hearing of these books then presume to enter on the practises of murdering by lies deceits c. I verily believe that the Non-Conformists rather than that they would imitate Judith in these things would rather be expos'd to the worst of miseries whereby they would more effectually demonstrate to the World the Loyalty of their Principles than by their Conformity There are several other things that must be practised if the Apocriphal Books be embrac'd as the Rule of manners unto which the Dissenters cannot conform But designing to be short I will at this time wave the considering them and proceed to shew the sense some of the Old Church of England Protestants had of these books as I find it in the Abridgment 3. The Old Church of the Jewes saith Dr. Whitaker never vouchsafed the Apocriphal Books so much honour as to read 'em publiquely which also the Learned hold to be a good president for us to follow The Council of Hippo sayes Bishop Jewell speaking of the Canonical Scriptures decreed that besides them nothing might be read in the Church The Council held at Laodicea decreed on the Sabbath we may not read any books that be without the Canon but only the Canonical books of the Old and New Testament To the like effect Chrysostom speaks sayes the same Jewell and as Bishop Jewell so Bishop Horn and Bishop Pilkinton asserts the French Church by the constitutions of Lewes and Charles were against the reading of the Apocrypha Whoever will diligently compare what Protestant writers offer against Apocryphal books with the books themselves will find so many idle stories and fables so many errors and ill presidents in it that they cannot but conclude with Dr. Sutcliff That it is impudence in the Papists that they match Apocryphal books and Legends with the Scriptures or at least read them in the Churches together with the Scriptures From the whole hath been said on this particular I inferr that 't is but charity to conclude that some Dissenters may receive such strong convictions concerning the unlawfulness of conforming to this part of the Liturgy that their Non-conformity may be more justly esteemed the product of Conscience than the Off-spring of obstinacy and an unreasonable Humour Argument II. II. Some Dissenters cannot Conscientiously approve of the Translation of the Psalmes which is read at the ordinary Lord's dayes service because 't is not only imperfect but moreover in some places senseless and absurd and in other places false directly contradicting our last Translation of the Psalmes in the Bible The Translation now us'd is the same set forth in the times of ignorance when the light of the truth did but begin to dawn in Henry the 8th dayes and is 1. Imperfect because among many other omissions all the Titles though a part of the original and very usefull are left out 2. Sensless and absurd for Psal 58. 9. where our Translation has it thus viz. before your pots can feel the Thorns he shall take them away with a Whirl-wind both living and in his wrath In the Service Book Translation 't is or ever your pots be made hot with Thorns so let indignation vex them as a thing that is raw So Psal 72. 6. He shall come down like rain upon the mowen grass This in the common prayer is Translated thus he shall come down like the rain into a fleece of Wool This our Old Protestant divines look'd upon as a corruption in the Papists not to be approved but can it be less so when done by the sons of the Church of England Fulk Withers Bulkley Whitaker and others have blamed the Rhemists Translation because 't is in many places senseless and absurd for which reason seeing the Translation of the Psalmes in the Service Book is as senseless in some things as that of the Rhemists is in other 't is as much to be blamed and as little to be approv'd But this is not all for this Translation in Henry the 8th is not only imperfect absurd and senseless but moreover in some places contrary to the original not only in the opinion of Dissenters but also in the judgment of those who were the Authours of the best Translation that ever was in English 1. The Psalter has it in Psal 17. 4. Thus because of mens works that are done against the words of thy lips I have kept me from the wayes of the destroyer but more agreeably to the Original our Translation is thus concerning the works of men by the words of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer whereby 't is apparent that not mens works that are done against the words of God's lips kept David right but concerning mens works David was kept from the paths of the destroyer by the words of God's lips 2. In Psal 18. 26. The Psalter sayes that with the froward thou shalt learn frowardness but according to the Hebrew 't is as our last translation in the Bible has it with the froward thou shalt shew thy self froward 3. In the Psalter Psal 68. 6. 't is thus he is the God that maketh men to be of one mind in an house whereas according to the Hebrew 't is God setteth the solitary in Families 4. In the Psalter Psal 107. 40. Though he suffer them to be evil intreated through Tyrants but according to the Hebrew in our Bibles He poureth contempt upon Princes But 5. In Psal 105. 28. The Psalter sayes And they were not obedient unto his word but the Hebrew And they rebelled not against his word or were not disobedient to his word And in Psal 106. 30. The Psalter has it Then stood up Phineas and Prayed and so the Plague ceased But our Bibles then stood up Phinehas and executed judgment and the Plague ceased which is not only most agreeable to the Hebrew in this place but moreover to the History in number 25. 7 8. Such as conform to the ordinary Lord's dayes Service must not only shew their approbation to the many idle Stories in the Apocryphal books and give 'em that countenance that alone pertains to the pure word of God but besides must lay

and design of Whitgift as one who acted rather like a Spanish Inquisitor than a good Protestant imposing Articles that were of an ensnaring tendency is what I find in the Letters of the Lord Cecil unto the Arch-bishop with Arch bishops reply Numb 4. 5 6. The which is more generally suggested in Cambden who mentions the dissatisfaction of several noble men with the Bishops proceedings but more expresly by a moderate writer in Queen Elizabeths who in his plea of the innocent doth in the name of the Non-Conformists speak thus of the Lords of the Councill And this is not all that bindes us to their honours for in our private troubles about the Ceremonies and Subscription we the poor and faithfull Ministers of Christ whensoever we have opened our cause and humbled our selves unto them we have found great justice and equity and divers times great relief and ease from our troubles No doubt they seeing our innocency that of meer Conscience without any the least inclination to disloyalty to our Sovereign we did forbear to do those things they have tendered our cause and lovingly effected that we might not be too much over-burdened Moreover concerning the Bishops they say What could we do less or better than to repair to the Reverend Bishops for Counsell and Comfort which for the space of ten years or the most part thereof they did in some good measure afford unto us till as I take it by the relation of some in the same broyles the Papists had cunningly wrested our good Fathers from us that they could and would do no further for us Then yet complaining of our case and opening our doubts unto them we did as the Law affordeth that the cause should be brought before the Ordinary in all doubts about ceremonies of the Church Established by Law and finding not our selves resolv'd by our ordinaries alas what could we do less than quietly to suffer our selves with great grief bewailing our flocks to be suspended imprisoned and deprived And this hath been the cause of all them which have not used the Ceremonies so fully as some other of their Brethren By this 't is evident that as Queen Elizabeth's Education natural temper Interest of State and I verily believe Conscience of Duty unto God inclin'd her to such an establishment in the Ecclesiastical Constitution as might be most gratefull unto the Papist even so some of the Clergy who by Heylin are called Melancthonians of whom Whitgift and Bancroft were principal in their times did their utmost by insisting so very much on the Ceremonies Subscription c. to the same end the Queens Majesty did whereby to the great grief of many Sound Protestants the Service of our Church was made to resemble as much as possible that of the Church of Rome But 3. I 'll now consider the reasonings of some Protestant Dissenters from this similitude likeness and agrement there is between these two service books against the ordinary use of the English Liturgy Whoever will make a due enquiry into the History of the Reformation will find that in Edward the 6th his dayes Hooper Lord Bishop elect for Glocester scrupled the Episcopal Vestments because they had been invented cheifly for celebrating the Mass with much pomp and had been consecrated for that effect In Queen Maries time the exil'd Protestants at Frankford such as Knox and those of his perswasion refused to Minister the Communion by the book of England for that there were some things in it placed only by warrant of man's Authority or no ground of God's word for the same and had also a long time very Superstitiously in the Mass been wickedly abused See discourse of the troubles at Franckford Moreover in Queen Elizabeth's and King James's dayes several manifested their dislike of our Liturgy for this very reason because 't was so like unto the Romish Service I 'll give some particular instances with those reasons that were by 'em urg'd against a complyance with a Service Book so like that of the Papists In a part of the Register you have the sense of Mr. Edward Deering who sayes that The similitude that this book has with the form of Prayer which the Papists used I think declineth from the equity of these Lawes Deut. 7. 25. Deut. 12. 30. Deut. 18. 9. which things our fathers so much regarded in the Primitive Church that their books are full of great complaints against all similitude to be had with the Gentiles Yea the second Councill of Bracca made a decree that no Christian should have either Bay-Leaves or Green Boughes in their houses because the Gentiles so accustomed And at this day all Reformed Churches in France Polonia Helvetia Scotland and other places have changed that form of Prayer which prudence of all ages if we shall condemn the rebuke of the Apostle I think will touch us 1 Cor. 14. 36. Came the word of God out from you or came it else to you only Secondarily we have the Psalmes Venite Benedictus Magnificat nunc dimittis usual in our Ministry of which we can give no good reason Nor I see no cause why we should more leave out the Ave Maria. And because of parting the Scriptures again into the Epistles and Gospels which was not heard of before the dayes of Popery I dare not avow that this is that reverent handling of the Scripture and the right dividing of the word of truth which St. Paul requireth 2 Tim. 2. 15. But the Abridgment is much more full on this Subject shewing what are the many Scriptural Arguments against all complyances with the Superstitions the which is farther confirm'd not only from the Fathers the Transmarine Protetestant Divines but also by our own Old Protestant Doctors of the Church of England Take it as in the Abridgment where 't is asserted that 't is contrary to the word of God to use such ceremonies in the worship of God as man has devised if they be notoriously known to have been of old and still to be abused unto Idolatry or Superstition by the Papists especially if the same be now of no necessary use in the Church Where note that the Ceremonial part of the English Service that is like unto that of the Romish is what has been abused by the Papists to Idolatry or Superstition but yet are not so necessary to Divine Worship but that the worship may be compleat decent and orderly without em but to their reasons this may appear say they 1. By the Second Commandment which forbids all provocation unto spiritual fornication as the 7th doth unto that which is Carnal 2. By the Commandment and direction God hath given us in his word to separate our selves from Idolaters and be as unlike to them as may be especially in their Religious Observations and Ceremonies to abolish not only all Idols but also all the Ceremonies and Instruments of Idolatry and that so as we may best shew our utmost detestation to them and root out the very

such a multitude of weighty Arguments against the Lawfulness of the Ceremonies c. that a giving the Reader all would take up a very large Volume but 't is not my business to insist on all that may be offer'd I 'le therefore close with this one Argument Argument VI. Notwithstanding the great Cry that has been made about the Antiquity of the English Service and the reasonableness of conforming unto it for that reason some Dissenters refuse to joyn in the use of it because such a practice is not agreeable to the best Antiquity They think that the Apostles were best acquainted with the Mind and VVit of Jesus Christ and that the Primitive Christians in the First Second and Third Centuries kept more exactly to the Rule of Christ than those who lived in the Fourth Fifth Sixth or Seventh c. whence the Antiquity the Dissenter pleads for is that which is most Ancient and most pure unto which pattern such as will aim at a thorough Reformation must attempt the reducing all things in matters of Religion 'T is generally agreed by all Protestants that in the Apostolical and most Primitive Dayes of the Gospel all things were most exactly conformed to the VVill of our Lord Jesus Christ and that the nearer any keep to his Rule the better A Deviating from the Primitive practice has been but the beginning of all those many corruptions that have infested the Church of Christ Seeing this is a truth acknowledged by most let us enquire after the Antiquity of such Liturgies as this in use among us and after the time when Liturgies were first imposed and from whom and when the present English Liturgy had its rise 1. From what has been already suggested 't is manifest That there were no stinted Liturgies impos'd on any Pastors of particular Churches the First Four Hundred years after Christ The which may be be further confirm'd out of what Dr. Burnet in the Second part of the History of the Reformation doth acknowledge who speaking of Liturgies doth say That they were not made the Subject of any publick Consultation till St. Austins time when in their Dealings with Hereticks they found they took advantages from some of the Prayers that were in some Churches Upon this he tells us it was order'd that there should be no Prayers used in the Church but upon common Advice After that the Liturgie came to be more carefully confidered Formerly the Worship of God was a pure and simple thing and so it continued till Superstition had so infected the Church that those Formes were thought too naked unless they were put under more Artificial Rules and dressed up with much Ceremony c. So far Dr. Burnet About this time which was in the Fourth Century St. Ambrose compos'd his Service Book which was the first that gained any confiderable Reputation in the VVorld The Spurious Liturgies that are ascribed unto the Apostles are such as have enough in 'em to convince the Reader that they were not so ancient as is pretended After this time the Pastors or Bishops of Churches were very busie in composing Prayers in making Additions to what was done by such as went before ' em But no Liturgie as yet impos'd on any Churches Every Pastor tho' he communicated the prayers he had composed for his own use unto others The which he did only for the satisfaction of his Brethren that they might be assur'd there was nothing of Error in 'em yet none impos'd 'T is very probable that St. Ambrose's Liturgie in Divers places finding Acceptance was much in use But 't is most certain that until Pope Adrian the first who liv'd in the Eighth Century there was no general Imposition of any Liturgie In Petries Church History 't is storyed That about the later end of the Eighth Century there was a great contention for receiving the Mass of Pope Gregory into the Churches first by Authority of Pope Adrian and then of Charles the Great some Churches had one Directory and some another who would not change VVhen the Pope saw so great Opposition and it may be understood that it was not small when the Pope was put to such a shift he said he would refer it to the VVill of God whither he would by any visible sign approve the Mass of Gregory or Ambrose so these two Books were laid together upon the Altar in St. Peters Church and he cal'd upon God which of the Two he approved The Doors were shut all Night and the next Morning when they were return'd into the Church the Book of Ambrose was found lying as it was laid down and the other was all torn and dispersed through the Church The Pope maketh the Comment if we will belive Jacob de Voragine in Vita Gregorij That the Mass of Ambrose should be untouch'd and the Mass of Gregory should be used through the VVorld and so he did Authorize and Command that it should be used in all Churches and Chappels But many did expound that sign the contrary way and would not receive it till Charles did command all Bishops and Priests to use it through his Dominions he caused the Mass of Ambrose to be burned and threw many Priests into Prison who refused to accept the new Mass or Pope Gregories Liturgy The Church of Millaine would not change Walifred Strabo who lived about the year 900 testifieth in his Book de Exordijs rerum cap. 25. That in his time the Roman Mass was not universally in all Churches but almost saith he in all the Churches of the Latines and no Benedictine Monks did read it c. Thus Adrian the Pope and Charles the Emperour were the first hot Zealots for Gregories Liturgy who were much more fond of it than Gregory himsel● was for Gregory did as much detest the Vniversal Imposition as he did zealously reject the Title of an Vniversal Bishop whence he was not fond of imposing it on us in England 'T is very certain that the Christian Religion did many an hundred years flourish in this Kingdom before 't was troubled with a Romish Liturgie which came not hither till about the year 600 and then rejected by the British Christians who severely suffer'd for their refusing to comply with the prelatick Impositions of that proud Monk Austine who stirring up the King of Kent to fight against the Christians thereby to bring 'em if possible to a complyance with his Ceremonies was the cause of the Destruction of above a Thousand Godly Monks besides the many others who were cruelly slain at that time The which Austin most wretchedly did tho' he never receiv'd any such advice from Gregory An account of Pope Gregories Moderation we have in Dr Burnet who gives us also a short History of the Rise and Progress of Ceremonies thus Gregory the Great was the first that took much care to make the Church Musick very regular and he did also put the Liturgies in another Method than had been formerly used Yet he had no

such fondness of his own Composures But left it to Austine the Monk whom he sent over into England when he consulted him in it either to use the Roman or the French Rituals or any other as he should find they were most likely to edifie the people But After this there were great variations for as any Prelate came to be Canonized or held in high esteem by the people some private Collects or particular Forms that he had used were practised in his or perhaps as his Fame spread in the Neighbouring Diocess Thus the Liturgie as it's first rise was in Austine's time or thereabout which was occasioned by the Errors that then did infest the Churches at which time the Ministers would vent their Errors in their very Prayers even so by degrees it received remarkable Additions some part brought in at one time and some at another So says Dr. Burnet In every Age there were notable Additions made and all Writers allmost in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries employed their Fancies to find out Mystical Significations for every Rite that was then used and so as a new Rite was added it was no hard matter to add some Mystery to it This had made the Office swell out of measure and there was a great variety of them Missals Breviaries Rituals Pontificals Portoises Pies Graduals Antiphorals Psalteries Hours and a great many more Out of these was the English Service taken which as it had no higher Rise than that of Gregorie's or at most Ambrose's Liturgy in like manner it was a Composition of time the Remaining parts having different Fathers some hundred years younger than the Apostles This I 'le evince particularly out of Bellarmine who as his Interest prompted him made diligent search after the Antiquity of the several parts of the Romish Service Book 1. The Versicle Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost was as Alcuinus thought Composed by St. Hierome at the request of Pope Damasus But as Walfrid Strabo 't was composed by the Nycene Council sometime before Hierome it may be to shew their Detestation to the Arrian Heresie which was some hundred years after Christ 2. The Kyrie Eleison i. e. Lord have mercy on us is foolishly supposed to be us'd ever since the Apostles days because 't is found in St. James's feigned Liturgy but Bellarmine cannot say that 't was us'd in the Roman Liturgy Two Hundred years before Gregory the Great who liv'd about the year 600. 3. Dominus Vobiscum or the Lord be with you An ancient Salutation us'd by Believers in the Old Testament times about which Petrus Damianus wrote a Book with this Title Dominus vobiscum Tho' this was an ancient Salutation in use among old Believers when they met one another yet we have no evidence that 't was brought into the Liturgie as a part of solemn and set Worship until the first Council at Bracca Can. 21. enjoyn'd it the Bishops and Priests 4. The Collects which were the short Prayers of several Popes and others Cannoniz'd for Saints were brought into the Liturgy by Pope Gregory almost 600 years after Christ 5. The Te Deum Laudamus or that Hymn which begins thus We praise thee O God tho' it be not found in the Sacred Scriptures yet 't was saith Bellarmine given the Church by Inspiration at the Baptism of St. Austine at which time St. Ambrose and St. Austine did extempore and alternately to the Astonishment of the people sing this Hymne as Dacius Episcopus Mediolanensis reports 6. After the Lessons the Responses which are so call'd saies Rabanus because one who begins is answer'd by the rest were first invented by the Italian Churches was not within several hundred years after Christ By these Intimations concerning the Antiquity of some parts of the English Service 't is evident That as all stinted Liturgies compared with the most primitive practices are new so our Liturgie which was taken out of Gregories A Liturgie not so ancient as that of Ambrose and which in process of time was strangely alter'd is much more new unto which the Dissenters cannot firmly adhere if they will as they think they ought make the most Primitive Practice the pattern and Rule of theirs What need any other Impositions on the Ministers of the Gospel or on the people now than were on 'em the first 300 years And why shall we be wiser than our first Fore-Fathers Is it not a duty to have a just respect to Antiquity Why not then to that Antiquity that comes nearest unto the Apostles days Whatever some may think there are many among the Dissenters who are fully perswaded that untill all things in Religion be reduc'd to the ancient Constitution established by the Lord Christ and his Apostles adher'd unto by those who for some hundred years followed 'em the Church of God will never flourish This is the Rule they must walk by c. or Sin against God to avoid which Sin they refuse to joyn with the Church of England in her Liturgie that is so beside the practice of the Primitive Christians Let these few of the many Arguments which the Dissenters have offered against the lawfulness of the English Liturgy satisfie the Reader On this I have the more fully insisted to the end those Sober Conformists who it may be have not considered the Reasons why the Dissenters cannot conform to the English Liturgie may see thas 't is not Honnour nor Fancy but Conscience that is the ground of their Non-Conformity I 'm very Confident that a great part of the Dissenters I speak not of all because I know 'em not would with all their Hearts Conform to all is requir'd of 'em by the Church of England could they do it with a safe Conscience and surely such among the Conformists who will consider these Reasonings of the Dissenters and who do not measure the Consciences of other Men by the Light and Latitude of their own cannot but conclude that there are some Nonconformists who cannot with a safe conscience conform but should they do it 't would be against the plain convictions of consciences As 't is not humour nor fancy that occasions their Dissent from the Church so 't is more than meer scruple of conscience These Dissenters are under strong convictions of Conscience that they sin if they conform This is certainly the case of many who are as fully perswaded that the Conformists do err as the Conformist can be that they do so This being their case the question is whether notwithstanding these plain convictions of Conscience they must conform and act contrary to their convictions Whether they may safely sin against God to the end they may render the Obedience required by man It hath been heretofore asserted by all sorts of Christians whether Protestant or Papist 1. That God must be obeyed rather than man And 2. That no authority is sufficient to oblige any to act contrary to the plain convictions of Conscience Yea