Imprimatur Liber cui Titulus An Answer to the Compiler of the Nubes Testium c. Octob. 11. 1687. Hen. Maurice Rmo in Christo P.D. Wilhelmo Archiepiscopo Cant. a Sacris AN ANSWER TO THE COMPILER OF THE Nubes Testium Wherein is shewn That ANTIQUITY in relation to the Points of Controversie set down by Him did not for the first five hundred years Believe Teach or Practise As the Church of Rome doth at present Believe Teach and Practise Together with a Vindication of the VETERES VINDICATI From the late weak and disingenuous Attempts Of the Author of Transubstantiation Defended By the Author of the Answer to Mr. Sclater of Putney LONDON Printed for Henry Mortlock at the Phoenix in St. Paul's Church-yard 1688. THE Introduction WHen I first entertained the thoughts of answering this Collection of Nubes Testium I must confess that I could not begin the doing it without some aw and dread of the Author thereof I was so affraid of encountering with a man of those parts and learning he was said to be of that I was for leaving the answering his book to men of equal parts and learning And I was very fearful of medling with the man who wrote the best book that ever was writ or ever would be written for their cause as a Learned young Squire was pleased to say of his Papist Misrepresented and Represented not knowing but this Nubes Testium might be the Second best book in the world and therefore too gigantick for me to grapple with But I took courage notwithstanding such a Character of the Author and lookt upon the Squires Saying as one of his Complements to his New Church and that Honour and Hopes were things so surprizing and dazeling to his Worship that 't is no wonder they made him speak something becoming his New Great self for as to that Book of Representations and Misrepresentations every body saw but those who were resolved to wink hard that his excellent Answerer hath sufficiently exposed that book and shewn how much more of paint and cunning than of Solidity and Sincerity was to be seen in it and for this Book under my hands I question not but that I have let the Reader see that it is the true second part of the Representer who hath served Antiquity and the Primitive Fathers in this Nubes just as he did in his other book the Church of England and her present or late Writers For the Matter and Authorities out of which this book is made up One would have believed that a Man who had presented the world with so large a Collection was very conversant in those Fathers he here makes use of and for my part I should have had such an opinion of him could he but have kept his own Councel a little better and not have brag'd that the Latin of his Authorities was out of (a) Preface to Nubes Testium near the end of it such Editions as are most authentick But when I came to examine things I quickly perceived to say no worse of it that this Collector said more than he knew since the present French Historian Natalis Alexandre out of whom this whole Nubes Testium excepting a very few passages is wholly stole does not acquaint his Reader that I can observe what Editions of the Fathers he makes use of And reason good since I believe he saw very little more than our Compiler the Fathers themselves but did very fairly take upon trust And which is more F. Alexandre tells his Reader in his Preface to his first volume that he makes use of Christophersons Translation of Eusebius's History which the Men of this age I am sure do not believe to be the most Authentick If our Compiler for he that steals a whole book without once mentioning whence he had it deserves no better a title of the Nubes Testium do there is no help for it It was by remembring this last passage in Natalis's Preface and comparing it with our Compilers Brag about his Editions of the Fathers being the most authentick that I came to discover our Compilers haunts and found him to be the greatest Plagiary that has appeared I believe on the Stage in these times I will not trouble my self to prove this charge upon him here since I do it abundantly in my Answer it self where I follow him from passage to passage and shew not onely the book but the very pages in Natalis Alexandre from whence he steals But I have a much worse thing to lay to our Compilers charge here than the Ungrateful Plagium it self and it is That he hath stole this Nubes Testium out of an Author every one of whose Volumes that are made use of by our Compiler had been condemned to the flames two years before and forbidden by the supream Authority in this Church I cannot but look upon this as a great instance of our Compilers Sincerity In his Papist Misrepresented and Represented He gives this Character of his Papist That he is one who is ready to behave (b) Papist Misrepr Repr c. 18. p. 22. himself towards his Chief Pastor the Pope with all Reverence and submission never scrupling to receive his Decrees and Definitions such as are issued forth by his Authority with all their due Circumstances and according to the Law in the Concern of the whole Flock and this whether He the Pope has the Assistance of a Divine Infallibility or no c. Here our Compiler did not characterize himself nor is this I am sure any Picture of his for notwithstanding all this smooth discourse in that Chapter about the Pope He does in this book act directly contrary to it F. Alexandre's books to the twelvth Century inclusively were ordered to be examined and the Pope committed the examination of them to some of his Cardinals joyning with them some peculiar Divines who together did agree unanimously that F. Alexandre's books deserved to be prohibited and condemned upon this the Pope did not only by his Breve condemn those Books but did forbid the keeping as well as reading of them did inhibit all the faithful of what condition or state soever under the pain of excommunication immediately incurred the Printing TRANSCRIBING READING or VSING ALL or ANY of THOSE BOOKS and yet our Compiler had the Courage notwithstanding the Excommunication denounced and incurred by him not onely to KEEP and TO READ but to PRINT TO TRANSCRIBE and TO MAKE VSE OF SOME of THOSE CONDEMNED BOOKS I cannot see how our Compiler will answer this his contempt and this seems to be a tryal of skil betwixt the Pope and Him about Infallibility if the Pope be Infallible as I believe our Compiler used to think (c) See for this his 18th chap. concerning the Pope in his Papist Misrepres and Repres him then our Compiler is in a miserable condition but if our Compiler be the Infallible as He had need to be that acted thus point-blank against the
the merits that are in the Treasury of the Church and to what purpose are they kept there nor their wickedness damn us An Answer that doth at once ruin the Papal Infallibility and Supremacy and therefore was the more likely to be concealed by one of that Church I do not lay the accusation against our Compiler also because he good man was I believe purely passive in the thing and if he is here unfaithfull to St. Austin and to the Reader it is because his Guide was unfaithfull to him SECT II. The next Errour of the Donatists is about the failure of the Church in Opposition to which our Compiler tells us Nubes Testium p. 6. that the Fathers maintain That the Catholick Church cannot fail as being assisted by the Spirit of God. I am as much at a loss about this point of Controversie as I was about the first I have not met with any of our Writers that are for proving or asserting that this Catholick Church can fail and am thereby pretty well assured that it is none of the Tenets of our Church-men that the Catholick Church can or hath failed and I am as certain that it is none of the Doctrines of the Church it self so that I must beg this Gentleman's pardon that I cannot believe that this opinion of the failure of the Catholick Church is one of the chief points of Controversie at present under debate I am so far from being of that faith that I think it not onely ridiculous but false to assert that there is any Controversie betwixt us about the failing or not failing of the Catholick Church and I cannot but observe that our Compiler who is so carefull in the Appendix to his Collections to gather the Concessions or Assertions of Protestants about the points and heads of Controversie in his Book either forgot to produce their Assertions and Concessions concerning this and the precedent point or was not able to produce any which I am the more ready to believe because I look on the thing as impossible If then not withstanding this Gentleman there really be no Controversie betwixt us touching this head both parties believing that the Catholick Church by reason of our blessed Lord his promised assistence cannot fail it will very readily be granted that all the citations out of the Fathers upon this head against the Donatists do not in the least affect or concern the Church of England since she detests that Errour of the Donatists as much as any other Church can I need not therefore examine the particular passages since granting them all the strength and evidence they are produced for they are not at all against the Church of England I will onely inform the Reader that the passages for this point are taken out of the same Volume and the same Dissertation of Natalis Alexandre h See Dissertatio 38 â—â—rs secunda Seculi quarti p. 182 186 164. that the former were borrowed from I must except the first quotation from St. Cyprian which does not occur in that place but is I question not borrowed from some other part of N. Alexandre's works I must observe also that our Compiler does in the first Testimony i Nub. Test p. 6. from St. Cyprian exactly transcribe the Errours of his Guide and that the Guide himself either did not look into St. Austin for this passage but very honestly copied some Romish Friend of his or was more than half asleep when he was writing this passage thence without one of these I cannot see how he should put reges for regna and virtutis for fortitudinis in the beginning of it I have looked into two or three Editions for this thing and find them exactly agreeing in this place and directly against the Guide and the Compiler SECT III. The last crime of the Donatists set down by our Compiler is their Schism Nub. Test p. 10. upon which he says the Fathers unanimously declare that whosoever breaks the Vnity of the Catholick Church upon any pretext whatsoever is guilty of Schism c. I am so far from the humour of making disputes or quarrels in things wherein there ought to be none and so desirous of reaching that part of his Book which does contain matter of real Disputes betwixt us that I shall here assure our Authour that taking the word Pretext here in the sense wherein it is commonly used among us for a false shew or groundless pretence I am perfectly of his Father's mind that it is destructive of Salvation causelesly to break the Vnity of the Catholick Church and that the Donatists who acted thus were really guilty of a Criminal Schism but I must withall assure our Compiler that I cannot see how this can be made matter of dispute betwixt us who both agree in asserting the same thing with those venerable Fathers or how this can any way affect or concern the Division that is at present betwixt us and the particular Church of Rome that Church tells us that they separate from us upon grounds which make such a Separation absolutely necessary and we prove against them that our Reasons for not communicating with them are much more absolutely such and that Communion with them upon the Terms fixt by their Council of Trent were destructive of Salvation and therefore by no means to be espoused Our Compiler hath gathered a great many Authorities of the Fathers upon this head to every one of which we of the Church of England do very heartily subscribe and are at the same time able from Scripture and Antiquity to justifie our necessary separation from the Bishop and Church of Rome I heartily wish those that allowed this Book to the Press and all the Romish Missionaries in England would consider the quotations on this point of Schism from St. Cyprian especially and above the rest that about the aliud Altare which was always so odious in the Catholick Church and will be so while there is a Church of Christ on Earth All the passages upon this head except two or three are to be found with the very same mistakes in them in the same Volume and Dissertation of Natalis Alexandre k Dissertatio tricesima octava Pars secunda Seculi quarti the first with a foolish consequence about Calvinists sympathizing with the Donatists tack'd to the end of it in p. 187. the next with the rest in page 187 188 189 223 191 192 193 194 195 230 196. The passage from St. Austin in p. 230. in Nat. Alexandre l Nubes Test p. 20. Nat. Alex. p. 230. is very much abused non eo ad daemonia sed tamen in parte Donati sum is not all that Saint Austin says here it is much fuller in him and Father Alexandre had shewed himself an ingenuous man if instead of putting in Luther and Calvin's name there after Donatus which is nothing to the purpose he had put in what should have been there and let us see the
Pope's mature and most Solemn Decree then the Pope himself is in a very simple Condition I leave the Decision of the Point to the Romish Priests in England who confess our Compiler But least our Compiler should evade the severe charge laid against him by pretending all this is but a dream and an Invention of us Protestants and that I may gratify the Curiosity of those who never heard of or saw this severe Breve against Natalis Alexandre I will here put it down and translate it so as that my English Reader may understand it also INNOCENTIUS P. P. XI ad perpetuam Rei memoriam Cum in Lucem prodierint quidam libri Authore fratre Natali Alexandre Ordinis Praedicatorum Parisiis impressi videlicet alii in sexdecim volumina distributi à primo usque ad duodecimum seculum inclusive editi sub titulo Selecta Historia Ecclesiasticae capita in loca ejusdem insigniora Dissertationes Historicae Chronologicae Criticae Dogmaticae alii vero in quatuor opuscula divisi sub Titulis Summa S. Thomae vindicata Dissertationum Ecclesiasticarum Trâ—as c. Dissertatio Polemica de Confessione Sacramentali c. contra Launoianas circa Simoniam observationes Animadversio Quamplures autem ex Venerabilibus sratribus nostris S. R. E. Cardinalibus ad eorundem librorum examen una cum nonnullis in Sacrâ Theologiâ Magistris à nobis specialiter delâ—cti auditis dictorum Theologorum matureque discussis sententiis omnes libros praedictos si ita NOBIS placeret probibendos condemnandos esse unanimi consensu censuerint Hinc est quod nos creditum nobis à Domino pastoralis curae atque vigilantiae munus quantum nobis ex alto concoditur salubriter exequi cupientes de eorundem Cardinalium Consilio ac etiam motu proprio ex certâ scientiâ ac matura deliberatione nostra deque APOSTOLICAe POTESTATIS PLENIFVDINE omnes sineulos libros supradictas tenore praesentium damnamus reprobamus ac LEGI seu RETINERI prohibemus ipsorumque librorum OMNIVM SINGVLORVM Impressionem DESCRIPTIONEM LECTIONEM VSVM OMNIBVS SINGVLIS Christi Fidelibus etiam specifica individua mentione expressione dignis SVB POENA EXCOMMVNICATIONIS per contrafacientes ipso facto ABSQVE ALIA DECLARATIONE INCVRRENDA a quae nemo à quoquam praeterquam à Nobis seâ— Romano Pontifice pro tempore existente nisi in mortis articulo constitutus absolutionis beneficium valeat obtinere omnino interdicimus Volentes Apostolica Authoritate mandantes ut quicunque libros praedictos vel corum aliquam penes se habuerint illos seu illum statim atque praesentes literae eis innotuerint teneantur tradere atque consignare locorum Ordinariis vel haereticae pravitatis Inquisitoribus qui exemplariae sibi sic tradita illico flâ—mmis aboleri curent in contrarium facientibus nonobstantibus quibuscunque Vt autem istae istae praesentes Literae omnibus facilius innotescant nec quisquam Illarum ignorantiam allegare possit Volumus Authoritate praedictâ decernimus illas ad valvas Basilicae Principis Apostolorum ac Cancellariae Apollolicae c. Datum Romae apud Sanctum Petrum sub Annulo Piscatoris die decimo Julii 1684. Pontifiâ—atus nostri anno octavo c. In the Nouvelles de la Republique des Lettres for the month of October 1684. p. 260 261 c. INNOCENT the Eleventh POPE for the PERPETUAL MEMORY OF THE THING Whereas certain Books have been published the Author Br. Natalis Alexandre a Dominican printed at Paris some of which divided into sixteen Volumes deducing the History of the Church from the first to the twelvth Century inclusively are put forth under the Title of Select Heads of Ecclesiastical History with Historical Chronological Critical and Dogmatical Dissertations upon the more famous parts thereof others divided into four Tracts under the Titles of St. Thomas's Summes vindicated a Triade of Ecclestastical Dissertations c. a Polemical Dissertation concerning Sacramental Confession c. an Animadversion upon Launoy's Observations about Simony Having made choice of many of our Reverend Brethren the Cardinals together with some other Doctors in Divinity for the examination of the said Books and having heard and throughly examined the said Divines Opinions they did unanimously give their Judgment that all the above-named Books if it seemed good to us should be prohibited and condemned Hereupon being desirous to discharge carefully that Pastoral charge committed to us by our Lord as well by the Counsel of the said Cardinals as of our own proper motion and certain knowledge and mature deliberation and also by the PLENITUDE OF APOSTOLICAL POWER We do DAMN and REPROBATE by virtue of these presents ALL and EVERY of the above-named Books and we do forbid their being either READ or KEPT and we do altogether inhibit ALL and EVERY of the FAITHFUL of what condition or quality soever the PRINTING TRANSCRIBING READING or USE of all and EVERY of the said Books under Pain of Excommunication to be incurred ipso facto WITHOUT ANY OTHER DECLARATION by any that act contrary to this our Decree who shall not be absolved except AT THE POINT OF DEATH by any person besides our self and the Pope of Rome for the time being And We will and command by our Apostolick Authority that if any persons have all or any of those said Books in their custody they shall deliver and resign up those Books or that Book as soon as these our present Letters shall be made known to them unto the Ordinaries of the places where they live or to the Inquisitors who are to take care that the Copies so delivered up to them be immediately condemned to the flames any Canon or Custom to the contrary notwithstanding And that these our present Letters may more easily come to the knowledge of all persons and none may pretend ignorance of them We will and decree by our Apostolick Authority that these Letters be affixed to the Doors of the Church of St. Peter and of the Apostolick Chancery c. the rest concerns onely the securing of this publick notice Given at Rome at St. Peters under the Seal of the Fisher the tenth day of July 1684. being the eighth year of our Pontificate I have not room or leisure here to make Reflections upon the odd management of the Pope towards this poor Dominican who does not refrain complaining (b) In his Preface to his Pars 1. sec 15. 16. that such a Tempest should be raised against him and nothing said to the Prelates of France to the Doctors of the Sorbonne who all taught and wrote the same that he had done in any of these Books concerning the Pope's Jurisdiction or Infallibility Nay that he should be condemned for writing that which this Pope himself had approved of in his Approbation of the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition I think NATALIS ALEXANDRE ought to be added to the Instances of the
again He sees we are agreed and therefore what he hath put down here as a Point at present under debate betwixt us is really none at all But if He mean here Constitutions of Points of Faith necessary to Salvation let him undertake to produce Fathers when he pleases for that point and I do here promise him an Answer what He hath collected under this head are not to that purpose For as to his two e Nubes Test p. 48 49. Nat. Alexan. p. 358-360 first Authorities from Irenaeus they are taken out of that very book wherein St. Irenaeus as he tells him who put him upon writing against the Valentinians undertook to confute that Heresie from f In hoc autem tertio Libro ex SCRIPTVRIS inferamus ostensiones ut nihil tibi ex his quae praeceperas desit à nobis Iren. Pref. in Lib. 3. adv Haeres the Scriptures themselves I wish some in the World would but imitate him and not be angry at us for being solicitous and earnest for the same Method In this Book Irenaeus takes notice of the extravagant humour of the Hereticks that they would be confined to no Rule nor submit either to Scripture or Tradition g D. Iren. l. 3. c. 2. By Tradition here this Father meant the preaching of the Christian Faith and the Delivery of the Apostles Creed h Hanc praedicationem cùm acceperit hanc fidem Ecclesia diligenter custodit consonanter haec praedicat o docet tradit quasi unum possidens os D. Iren. adv Haer. l. 1. c. 3. every Article of which is expressy contained in the Holy Scriptures so that this cannot be of any service to them since both sides agree that the Creed is but a Summary of the Holy Scriptures which Creed he says was unanimously without any variation believed taught and delivered from hand to hand in every Church There is a passage in this third Chapter urged indeed by F. Alexandre k Nat. Alex. p. 359. but more prudently omitted by our Compiler which I think may with abundance of reason be turned upon the Romanists by us in all points of Controversie betwixt us as well as it was by St. Irenaeus against the Hereticks of his time He arguing against them that there were no Bishops in the World that either taught or knew of any such things as they held urges them with this argument That if the Apostles had known of any such hidden Mysteries l Etenim si recondita Mysteria scissent Apostoli quae seorsim latenter ab reliquis Perfectos docebant His vel maximè traderent ea quibus etiam ipsas Ecclesias committebant Valde enim perfectos irreprehensibiles in omnibus eos volebant esse quos Successores relinquebant c. St. Iren. c. Haer. l. 3. c. 3. which they were to teach the Perfect onely in private and unknown to the rest of their Disciples they would most likely have delivered them to those to whom they committed those Churches they had planted inforcing it with this reason because they certainly would be very desirous that those to whom they left their Churches and their Episcopal Charge should be very perfect and irreprovable in all things which they could not be if they wanted those secret Mysteries the Hereticks did pretend to And in the same manner may we urge against the Church of Rome that if the Apostles had known of such things as Purgatory Praying to Saints and the Lawfulness of Worshipping Images and the like they would certainly either have put them down in their own Writings or would have delivered them to those to whom they left their Charges that so we might have seen and heard of these things among them as frequently and as unanimously as we do of the Tradition of the Apostles Creed But to return and put a short Answer to these Quotations the Tradition here spoken of was about the Apostles Creed the Tradition here is what the Apostles had preached and what the Apostles preached is the very same that they afterwards by the Will of God and the Request of Christians as Eusebius m Hist Eccl. l. 3. c. 24. for example does inform us about three of the Gospels committed to Writing This is what Irenaeus himself says particularly in the first Chapter of this Book n Non enim per alios dispositionem salutis nostrae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad nos Quod quidem tunc praeconiaverunt postea verò per Dei voluntatem in SCRIPTVRIS nobis TRAVIDERVNT Fundamentum Columnam Fidei nostrae futurum St. Iren. adv Haer. l. 3. c. 1. that we had no other knowledge of the Oeconomy of our Salvation than by the Labours of those by whom we first received the Gospel which Gospel indeed at first They DELIVERED by PREACHING but afterwards by the Will and Appointment of God committed It to WRITING that IT might be the Foundation and Pillar of our Faith and so of our Salvation If those Divine Writings be of that Efficacy as to found and stablish us in the True Faith thither in God's name let us have recourse and learn what the Apostles taught by what they writ We have not the least ground or intimation from this Father of any Doctrines necessary to Salvation not written or forgotten to be penned by the Apostles among the rest We have his Opinion directly against any such secret Traditions In a word if it were God's Will that the Apostles should commit to writing the same Word of Salvation that they had preached I cannot see how it should come to pass that some part of it should be written and another not If it were all written I am sure our Compiler is besides the Cushion and the whole Church of Rome as much What I have said here is not onely answer sufficient for what is out of Irenaeus but for the two next Testimonies from Origen o Nubes Test p. 50 51. Nat. Alexan. p. 365 366. the latter of which speaking so very honourably of the Scriptures is a very unfit one for the Church of Rome's purpose and would have been omitted had either F. Alexandre or our Compiler read the whole Tract they so readily quote The last from Origen p Nubes Test p. 51. Nat. Alex. p. 366. and those from Tertullian q Nubes Test p. 52. Nat. Alex. p. 367. relate onely to Ecclesiastical Rites as for Tertullian's not disputing with the Hereticks from Scripture r Nubes Test p. 54. Nat. Alex. p. 369. it was not from the Imbecillity of Scriptures for such purposes but upon other accounts one of which was that they had nothing to doe with the Scriptures all the World knows the Reverence Tertullian had for the Fulness and Sufficiency of the Scriptures to all purposes when ſ Adoro Scripturae plenitudinem Scriptum esse doceat Hermogenis Officina Si non est scriptum