rome_n page_n 29._o 30._o i_o speak_v of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n and_o my_o word_n be_v these_o what_o authority_n soever_o the_o pope_n have_v over_o the_o latin_a church_n or_o west_n part_n of_o the_o world_n it_o have_v be_v give_v he_o by_o humane_a constitution_n only_o and_o general_a consent_n of_o prince_n and_o state_n which_o they_o suffer_v he_o to_o enjoy_v during_o their_o good_a like_n and_o no_o long_o and_o have_v thus_o show_v that_o the_o pope_n authority_n over_o other_o church_n be_v not_o by_o divine_a institution_n but_o only_o by_o humane_a permission_n not_o certain_a but_o during_o the_o pleasure_n of_o prince_n and_o state_n my_o word_n favour_v not_o his_o supremacy_n over_o we_o in_o england_n out_o of_o which_o by_o consent_n of_o prince_n and_o parliament_n he_o have_v be_v abandon_v long_o since_o and_o therefore_o i_o say_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v little_o behold_v to_o i_o for_o his_o title_n of_o supremacy_n this_o be_v a_o very_a loose_a and_o negligent_a kind_n of_o disputation_n seven_o say_v he_o dove_n persw_n pag._n 15._o refer_v the_o question_n what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n to_o the_o two_o doctor_n s._n augustine_n and_o s._n hierom._n his_o word_n be_v these_o catholic_n prove_v they_o to_o be_v canonical_a out_o of_o s._n augustine_n we_o that_o they_o be_v apocrypha_n out_o of_o s._n hierome_n both_o which_o doctor_n be_v of_o no_o small_a authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n therefore_o in_o this_o we_o differ_v no_o more_o from_o they_o than_o s._n hierome_n do_v from_o s._n augustine_n therefore_o i_o hope_v for_o many_o cause_n protestant_n will_v give_v place_n to_o we_o in_o this_o question_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o the_o question_n be_v propound_v concern_v the_o book_n of_o toby_n judith_n baruch_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la wisdom_n the_o maccabe_n and_o the_o fragment_n of_o esther_n whether_o they_o be_v canonical_a as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v hold_v or_o apocrypha_n as_o our_o church_n maintain_v i_o answer_v that_o forasmuch_o as_o there_o be_v canon_n fidei_fw-la &_o morum_fw-la one_o canon_n or_o rule_n of_o good_a life_n another_o of_o faith_n and_o that_o may_v be_v canon_n morum_fw-la quodnon_fw-la est_fw-la fidei_fw-la arule_n and_o pattern_n of_o good_a life_n for_o we_o to_o follow_v which_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o doctrine_n to_o build_v our_o faith_n upon_o they_o be_v both_o canonical_a and_o apocrypha_n canonical_a according_a to_o saint_n augustins_n for_o rule_n of_o good_a life_n apocrypha_n according_a to_o s._n hierome_n because_o they_o be_v no_o true_a ground_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o ourselves_o right_o understand_v one_o another_o as_o saint_n hierome_n and_o saint_n augustine_n understand_v themselves_o there_o need_v not_o be_v any_o difference_n concern_v this_o point_n between_o us._n but_o how_o can_v he_o infer_v upon_o this_o that_o therefore_o we_o must_v give_v place_n to_o he_o in_o this_o question_n as_o saint_n hierome_n give_v no_o place_n to_o saint_n augustine_n so_o will_v we_o give_v no_o place_n to_o any_o only_o i_o wish_v they_o will_v better_o understand_v both_o we_o and_o themselves_o and_o give_v place_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o forasmuch_o as_o they_o allow_v both_o of_o saint_n hierome_n and_o saint_n augustine_n to_o be_v orthodoxal_a doctor_n they_o can_v receive_v s._n augustine_n his_o opinion_n but_o they_o must_v also_o embrace_v s._n hieroms_n exposition_n where_o it_o be_v explain_v what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o s._n augustine_n where_o he_o allow_v those_o book_n to_o be_v canonical_a eight_o say_v he_o concern_v the_o vulgar_a latin_a translation_n allow_v among_o catholic_n d._n dove_n write_v thus_o pag._n 16._o we_o grant_v it_o fit_a that_o for_o uniformity_n in_o quotation_n of_o place_n in_o school_n and_o pulpit_n one_o latin_a text_n shall_v be_v use_v and_o we_o can_v be_v content_v for_o the_o antiquity_n thereof_o to_o prefer_v the_o old_a vulgar_a translation_n before_o all_o other_o latin_a book_n and_o so_o much_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n the_o praemiss_n be_v i_o but_o what_o be_v his_o conclusion_n because_o we_o ascribe_v to_o the_o vulgar_a edition_n more_o than_o to_o all_o other_o latin_a translation_n and_o therein_o agree_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o because_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n so_o far_o as_o reason_n do_v require_v and_o no_o further_o but_o disagree_v both_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o council_n in_o thing_n which_o be_v erroneous_a concedendo_fw-la vera_fw-la negando_fw-la falsa_fw-la will_v he_o therefore_o take_v this_o for_o a_o protestant_a proof_n of_o his_o catholic_a religion_n non_fw-la taliauxilio_fw-la nec_fw-la defensoribus_fw-la istis_fw-la roma_fw-la caret_fw-la if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v no_o better_a champion_n it_o will_v not_o stand_v nine_o doctor_n covel_n write_v no_o translation_n whatsoever_o be_v authentical_a scripture_n and_o doctor_n dove_n add_v all_o translation_n have_v many_o fault_n page_n 16._o in_o so_o write_v i_o write_v the_o truth_n for_o only_a god_n be_v free_a from_o error_n and_o therefore_o only_a the_o original_a text_n be_v authentical_a scripture_n all_o man_n be_v subject_a to_o error_n omnis_fw-la homo_fw-la mendax_fw-la but_o all_o translation_n be_v the_o work_n of_o man_n but_o how_o idle_o be_v this_o bring_v in_o as_o a_o protestant_a proof_n of_o recusancy_n well_o may_v it_o serve_v against_o recusant_n which_o ascribe_v more_o to_o the_o translation_n they_o to_o the_o original_n if_o no_o translation_n be_v authentical_a than_o it_o follow_v as_o a_o firm_a consequent_a that_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a edition_n can_v be_v authentical_a howsoever_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v impose_v it_o upon_o we_o as_o authentical_a ten_o for_o this_o time_n and_o place_n say_v he_o i_o will_v only_o make_v amplification_n of_o doctor_n dove_n his_o grant_n &_o confession_n which_o follow_v in_o these_o word_n when_o the_o mass_n be_v first_o put_v down_o king_n henry_n have_v his_o english_a litourgie_n and_o that_o be_v then_o judge_v absolute_a without_o all_o exception_n but_o when_o king_n edward_n come_v to_o the_o crown_n that_o be_v condemn_v and_o another_o be_v in_o the_o place_n which_o peter_n martyr_n and_o bucet_n do_v approve_v as_o very_o consonant_a to_o god_n word_n when_o q._n elizabeth_n begin_v her_o reign_n the_o former_a be_v judge_v to_o be_v full_a of_o imperfection_n and_o a_o new_a be_v divise_v &_o allow_v by_o consent_n of_o the_o clergy_n but_o about_o the_o middle_n of_o her_o reign_n we_o grow_v weary_a of_o that_o book_n &_o great_a mean_n have_v be_v wrought_v to_o abandon_v it_o &_o establish_v another_o which_o although_o it_o be_v not_o obtain_v yet_o we_o do_v at_o the_o least_o at_o every_o change_n of_o prince_n change_v our_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n we_o be_v so_o want_v on_o we_o know_v not_o what_o we_o will_v have_v pag._n 31._o hitherto_o his_o word_n and_o he_o free_o confess_v error_n in_o all_o these_o state_n and_o change_n for_o defence_n whereof_o beside_o that_o these_o word_n be_v write_v by_o way_n of_o objection_n from_o they_o rather_o than_o any_o confession_n make_v by_o ourselves_o i_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o intimate_v that_o there_o be_v error_n in_o all_o these_o state_n and_o change_n as_o he_o unjust_o charge_v i_o but_o only_o that_o in_o the_o service_n book_n of_o king_n henry_n and_o king_n edward_n some_o thing_n be_v judge_v to_o savour_v of_o the_o superstition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o as_o for_o the_o service_n book_n which_o be_v allow_v by_o queen_n elizabeth_n it_o stand_v not_o only_o during_o her_o time_n without_o alteration_n but_o also_o it_o be_v ratify_v by_o his_o majesty_n and_o allow_v of_o by_o the_o state_n albeit_o by_o some_o particularman_n it_o have_v be_v impugn_a as_o nothing_o else_o can_v be_v by_o the_o wit_n of_o man_n so_o well_o devise_v but_o man_n wit_n can_v dispute_v against_o it_o and_o as_o for_o those_o error_n which_o be_v reform_v in_o the_o book_n of_o k._n henry_n and_o king_n edward_n they_o be_v the_o superstition_n only_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o land_n be_v not_o then_o sufficient_o reform_v nor_o purity_n of_o religion_n so_o perfect_o establish_v as_o now_o it_o be_v because_o the_o bishop_n &_o clergy_n man_n by_o who_o those_o book_n be_v write_v themselves_o be_v too_o much_o so_o wr_v with_o the_o romish_a leaven_n and_o our_o daily_a renounce_v those_o superstition_n and_o receive_v great_a light_n of_o the_o gospel_n can_v be_v no_o protestant_a proof_n that_o we_o shall_v any_o way_n favour_v their_o superstition_n eleventh_o he_o write_v thus_o why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v with_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n cite_v
by_o his_o own_o exposition_n this_o word_n ador_n 12._o amus_fw-la we_o adore_v they_o be_v no_o more_o than_o if_o he_o have_v say_v we_o honour_v they_o and_o think_v reverent_o of_o they_o or_o use_v they_o reverent_o because_o they_o be_v for_o exercise_v of_o devotion_n and_o make_v difference_n between_o they_o and_o other_o thing_n which_o be_v appoint_v only_o for_o civil_a use_n and_o to_o make_v good_a this_o his_o exposition_n he_o refer_v we_o to_o that_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o before_o i_o have_v allege_v moreover_o he_o show_v that_o as_o there_o be_v one_o adoration_n which_o be_v religious_a belong_v to_o god_n so_o there_o be_v a_o other_o only_o officious_a belong_v to_o all_o ecclesiastical_a rite_n and_o ceremony_n and_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n and_o to_o that_o purpose_n he_o allege_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o 2._o council_n of_o nice_a which_o speak_v more_o in_o favour_n of_o image_n than_o all_o other_o counsel_n and_o decree_v in_o this_o sort_n imagine_v sunt_fw-la venerandae_fw-la non_fw-la quidem_fw-la cultu_fw-la latriae_fw-la sed_fw-la honore_fw-la illo_fw-la quo_fw-la prosequimur_fw-la 7._o sacras_fw-la literas_fw-la vasa_fw-la sacra_fw-la image_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v but_o how_o not_o with_o such_o worship_n as_o belong_v to_o god_n but_o only_o to_o be_v honour_v as_o the_o church_n book_n and_o the_o church_n vessel_n but_o i_o think_v no_o catholic_a hold_v that_o the_o bible_n the_o basin_n the_o font_n and_o the_o chalice_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v by_o adoration_n and_o so_o they_o call_v they_o sacras_fw-la imagine_v sacred_a image_n as_o they_o call_v other_o thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n res_fw-la sacras_fw-la holy_a thing_n as_o the_o communion_n cup_n vasa_fw-la sacra_fw-la holy_a chalice_n the_o font_n lavacrum_fw-la sacrum_fw-la their_o priest_n personas_fw-la sacras_fw-la their_o church_n aedes_fw-la sacras_fw-la their_o bibles_n biblia_fw-la sacra_fw-la and_o yet_o adore_v they_o not_o and_o thus_o as_o man_n ashamed_a of_o themselves_o they_o qualify_v the_o matter_n by_o such_o subtlety_n among_o the_o learned_a to_o avoid_v suspicion_n of_o idolatry_n &_o continue_v the_o people_n in_o ignorance_n and_o gross_a idolatry_n again_o whereas_o aquinas_n and_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n have_v before_o deliver_v in_o gross_a term_n that_o image_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v cultu_fw-la latriae_fw-la with_o divine_a worship_n or_o such_o worship_n as_o be_v due_a unto_o god_n bellarmine_n to_o qualify_v the_o matter_n and_o to_o reduce_v they_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o council_n 25._o of_o trent_n will_v seem_v to_o make_v a_o more_o mild_a exposition_n of_o these_o word_n coign_v this_o distinction_n inter_fw-la sanctos_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la imagine_v &_o reliquias_fw-la between_o the_o saint_n themselves_o and_o their_o image_n and_o relic_n so_o inter_fw-la christum_fw-la &_o eius_fw-la imagine_v &_o reliquias_fw-la between_o our_o saviour_n christ_n &_o his_o image_n &_o relic_n and_o so_o he_o have_v write_v that_o the_o image_n &_o relic_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o they_o who_o image_n &_o relic_n they_o be_v and_o so_o the_o image_n &_o relic_n of_o saint_n with_o the_o worship_n of_o doulia_fw-la and_o of_o christ_n with_o latria_fw-la but_o yet_o at_o the_o length_n as_o a_o cow_n that_o give_v a_o pail_n full_a of_o milk_n and_o then_o kick_v it_o down_o with_o her_o heel_n he_o do_v by_o a_o distinction_n so_o qualify_v the_o matter_n and_o set_v down_o such_o a_o state_n of_o the_o question_n whereby_o all_o be_v overthrow_v for_o say_v he_o that_o worship_n which_o be_v call_v latria_fw-la and_o that_o which_o be_v doulia_fw-la be_v of_o two_o sort_n one_o be_v cultus_fw-la verus_fw-la a_o true_a worship_n which_o be_v due_a to_o the_o person_n themselves_o the_o other_o but_o analogicus_fw-la a_o analogical_a or_o equivocal_a worship_n only_o which_o be_v due_a to_o the_o image_n and_o relic_n but_o what_o difference_n be_v between_o analogum_fw-la and_o analogatum_fw-la a_o live_a saint_n and_o the_o picture_n of_o a_o saint_n i_o refer_v the_o consideration_n thereof_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o scholar_n which_o have_v learn_v but_o aristotle_n his_o antipredicament_n as_o a_o paint_a man_n or_o analogical_a man_n be_v no_o man_n so_o analogical_a worship_n be_v no_o worship_n a_o paint_a man_n be_v but_o the_o resemblance_n of_o a_o man_n so_o analogical_a worship_n be_v but_o a_o resemblance_n of_o worship_n and_o not_o worship_v itself_o but_o it_o be_v hard_o to_o devise_v how_o they_o shall_v make_v such_o a_o resemblance_n of_o worship_n before_o the_o image_n and_o not_o worship_v the_o image_n and_o howsoever_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a yet_o the_o apostle_n teach_v how_o they_o ought_v to_o avoid_v all_o show_n of_o evil_a and_o thus_o have_v he_o avoid_v that_o which_o be_v allege_v against_o he_o by_o aequivocation_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o law_n of_o school_n to_o leave_v their_o doctrine_n &_o come_v to_o their_o scandalous_a practice_n we_o charge_v they_o with_o breach_n of_o the_o second_o commandment_n because_o they_o fall_v down_o before_o their_o image_n bellarmine_n in_o defence_n thereof_o say_v they_o do_v not_o cultum_fw-la tribuere_fw-la 11._o simulacris_fw-la tamquam_fw-la dijs_fw-la worship_v their_o image_n as_o god_n but_o only_o they_o worship_v god_n in_o the_o image_n of_o god_n &_o saint_n in_o the_o image_n of_o those_o saint_n before_o who_o they_o fall_v down_o and_o that_o such_o worship_n be_v not_o prohibit_v in_o holy_a writ_n now_o therefore_o upon_o this_o point_n let_v we_o join_v our_o issue_n if_o to_o prostrate_v themselves_o before_o the_o image_n and_o say_v they_o worship_v not_o the_o image_n but_o god_n in_o the_o image_n may_v be_v lawful_a then_o may_v both_o jew_n &_o gentile_n which_o do_v the_o like_a have_v excuse_v their_o idolatry_n forasmuch_o as_o neither_o of_o they_o hold_v their_o idol_n to_o be_v god_n when_o they_o fall_v down_o before_o they_o for_o know_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o be_v a_o god_n but_o know_v he_o not_o as_o he_o ought_v to_o be_v know_v nor_o in_o what_o sort_n he_o shall_v be_v worship_v they_o frame_v idol_n &_o worship_v he_o in_o those_o idol_n &_o yet_o for_o so_o do_v they_o be_v condemn_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n because_o he_o be_v a_o spirit_n will_v be_v worship_v in_o spirit_n but_o not_o in_o a_o idol_n and_o so_o he_o will_v not_o be_v worship_v in_o a_o image_n concern_v the_o jew_n which_o be_v idolater_n they_o know_v their_o golden_a calf_n be_v no_o god_n but_o worship_v god_n in_o the_o calf_n bellarmine_n therefore_o ask_v why_o they_o say_v faciamus_fw-la 23._o deas_fw-la qui_fw-la praecedant_fw-la nos_fw-la let_v we_o make_v god_n to_o go_v before_o we_o &_o he_o sunt_fw-la dij_fw-la qui_fw-la eduxerunt_fw-la te_fw-la de_fw-la terra_fw-la aegypti_n these_o be_v the_o god_n which_o bring_v thou_o out_o of_o egypt_n i_o answer_v their_o manner_n be_v to_o call_v idol_n god_n but_o deos_fw-la repraesetativos_fw-la god_n by_o represetation_n because_o they_o make_v they_o to_o represent_v god_n use_v the_o figure_n call_v enallage_n numeri_fw-la god_n for_o god_n the_o plural_a number_n for_o the_o singular_a i_o answer_v he_o also_o by_o his_o own_o distinction_n they_o do_v mean_v deos_fw-la analogicos_fw-la non_fw-la veros_fw-la god_n analogical_o but_o not_o true_o &_o univocal_o understand_v so_o in_o the_o story_n of_o the_o judge_n speak_v of_o micha_n the_o idolater_n the_o text_n say_v this_o man_n micha_n have_v a_o house_n of_o god_n the_o holy_a ghost_n will_v 5._o not_o call_v his_o idol_n god_n but_o in_o this_o sense_n because_o they_o be_v idol_n there_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o in_o the_o scripture_n that_o which_o be_v know_v &_o understand_v to_o be_v no_o god_n but_o a_o idol_n yet_o be_v call_v a_o god_n and_o that_o i_o may_v somewhat_o enlarge_v this_o point_n for_o the_o better_a satisfaction_n of_o the_o reader_n the_o jew_n know_v that_o god_n in_o particular_a which_o bring_v they_o out_o of_o egypt_n before_o 11._o the_o golden_a calf_n be_v make_v for_o a_o little_a before_o he_o come_v down_o in_o their_o sight_n upon_o mount_n sina_n they_o hear_v he_o speak_v with_o 19_o their_o own_o ear_n he_o appear_v in_o thunder_a &_o lightning_n his_o presence_n be_v so_o terrible_a they_o be_v afraid_a they_o say_v to_o moses_n talk_v thou_o with_o we_o and_o we_o will_v hear_v thou_o but_o let_v not_o he_o talk_v with_o we_o lest_o we_o die_v &_o therefore_o can_v not_o think_v this_o calf_n which_o they_o make_v afterward_o to_o be_v the_o same_o god_n which_o can_v not_o speak_v nor_o terrify_v they_o at_o all_o and_o consequent_o they_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v but_o a_o analogical_a or_o representative_a god_n but_o
can_v neither_o be_v effectual_a nor_o yet_o make_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n that_o they_o can_v be_v effectual_a it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n james_n every_o thing_n which_o 6._o we_o ask_v must_v be_v ask_v in_o faith_n and_o not_o with_o doubt_v etc._n etc._n that_o such_o prayer_n be_v make_v with_o a_o ill_a conscience_n and_o be_v sin_n it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o saint_n paul_n he_o that_o doubt_v 23._o be_v condemn_v because_o he_o do_v it_o not_o of_o faith_n and_o whatsoever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n let_v every_o man_n be_v full_o persuade_v in_o his_o mind_n but_o we_o can_v be_v assure_v that_o they_o hear_v we_o see_v there_o be_v no_o ground_n nor_o proof_n thereof_o in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n neither_o can_v the_o classical_a author_n and_o and_o maintainer_n of_o that_o doctrine_n yield_v any_o plain_a or_o firm_a reason_n to_o satisfy_v either_o we_o or_o their_o own_o self_n how_o it_o may_v be_v so_o that_o we_o shall_v believe_v it_o and_o subscribe_v unto_o it_o he_o allege_v many_o argument_n in_o defence_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n as_o mediator_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o which_o argument_n have_v be_v allege_v long_o before_o his_o time_n by_o eckius_fw-la and_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o they_o have_v be_v long_o since_o anser_v by_o peter_n martyr_n calvin_n kemnitius_n &_o other_o protestant_a writer_n before_o his_o book_n come_v forth_o now_o it_o be_v to_o be_v expect_v for_o the_o catholic_a credit_n of_o bellarmine_n so_o great_a a_o doctor_n that_o he_o shall_v not_o have_v produce_v these_o old_a argument_n again_o who_o answer_n be_v publish_v in_o print_n so_o long_o since_o for_o that_o be_v no_o cunning_a but_o he_o shall_v have_v be_v furnish_v with_o new_a stuff_n or_o at_o the_o least_o have_v reply_v upon_o the_o answer_n hic_fw-la labour_n hoc_fw-la opus_fw-la est_fw-la which_o he_o have_v not_o do_v the_o answer_n therefore_o be_v so_o sufficient_a that_o he_o do_v not_o reply_n upon_o they_o as_o his_o proof_n be_v but_o the_o same_o which_o be_v before_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v sufficient_a to_o answer_v they_o as_o they_o be_v answer_v before_o and_o so_o to_o satisfy_v old_a argument_n with_o old_a answer_n saint_n say_v bellarmine_n do_v pray_v for_o the_o good_a estate_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n in_o general_a and_o for_o such_o man_n in_o particular_a as_o do_v pray_v unto_o they_o and_o we_o ought_v to_o pray_v unto_o they_o that_o they_o will_v particular_o pray_v for_o us._n and_o that_o i_o may_v speak_v to_o these_o three_o proposition_n although_o i_o deny_v not_o the_o first_o that_o saint_n do_v pray_v for_o we_o in_o general_a yet_o i_o will_v examine_v the_o validity_n of_o his_o argument_n which_o he_o allege_v for_o proof_n thereof_o to_o show_v how_o weak_a the_o ground_n be_v which_o they_o build_v upon_o and_o so_o i_o will_v in_o order_n descend_v to_o the_o rest_n only_o to_o set_v down_o his_o argument_n and_o kemnitius_n his_o answer_n to_o those_o argument_n publish_v in_o print_n long_o before_o for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o other_o by_o who_o they_o be_v before_o object_v as_o follow_v that_o saint_n depart_v do_v pray_v general_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n bell_n hieremy_n 15._o the_o lord_n say_v to_o i_o though_o moses_n 18._o and_o samuel_n shall_v stand_v before_o i_o yet_o my_o affection_n can_v not_o be_v towards_o this_o people_n therefore_o moses_n and_o samuel_n be_v dead_a both_o then_o can_v and_o usual_o at_o other_o time_n do_v pray_v for_o the_o people_n alioqui_fw-la inepta_fw-la esset_fw-la dei_fw-la locutio_fw-la otherwise_o god_n have_v speak_v these_o word_n impertinent_o as_o if_o a_o man_n have_v say_v if_o my_o ox_n pray_v for_o thou_o he_o shall_v not_o prevail_v mean_v that_o ox_n can_v pray_v kemnitius_n we_o deny_v not_o but_o saint_n depart_v do_v pray_v 3._o for_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o this_o text_n first_o a_o conditional_a proposition_n prove_v nothing_o unless_o the_o condition_n be_v perform_v but_o moses_n and_o samuel_n do_v not_o they_o stand_v before_o god_n therefore_o they_o make_v no_o intercession_n for_o the_o people_n second_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n they_o be_v then_o in_o limbus_n as_o all_o other_o saint_n depart_v until_o the_o death_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n therefore_o they_o can_v make_v no_o intercession_n three_o the_o idolatry_n of_o the_o people_n be_v so_o odious_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n that_o if_o moses_n and_o samuel_n have_v be_v alive_a to_o make_v intercession_n for_o the_o people_n as_o in_o their_o life_n time_n they_o do_v yet_o god_n will_v not_o hear_v they_o four_o this_o supposition_n be_v make_v of_o moses_n and_o samuel_n be_v alive_a and_o not_o after_o their_o death_n to_o which_o i_o add_v my_o own_o answer_n this_o argument_n be_v a_o fallacy_n call_v the_o ignorance_n of_o the_o elenche_n bellarm._n 2._o maccab._n 15._o judas_n in_o a_o vision_n see_v onias_n the_o priest_n and_o jeremy_n the_o prophet_n pray_v for_o the_o people_n but_o that_o book_n of_o maccabe_n be_v hold_v for_o canonical_a council_n 3._o carthag_n cap._n 47._o kemnitius_n first_o that_o be_v but_o a_o dream_n and_o not_o a_o story_n &_o be_v relate_v to_o animate_v the_o soldier_n to_o fight_v valiant_o second_o notwithstanding_o the_o relation_n of_o this_o dream_n neither_o judas_n maccabeus_n nor_o yet_o his_o army_n do_v invocate_v onias_n or_o jeremy_n but_o only_o god_n three_o that_o book_n be_v understand_v to_o be_v canonical_a for_o example_n of_o life_n but_o not_o for_o '_o point_v of_o doctrine_n and_o therefore_o make_v not_o for_o this_o purpose_n bellarm._n apoc._n 5._o 8._o the_o 24._o elder_n fall_v down_o before_o the_o throne_n have_v their_o phial_n full_a of_o odour_n which_o be_v the_o prayer_n of_o saint_n kemnitius_n these_o prayer_n as_o they_o be_v their_o own_o and_o not_o of_o other_o man_n which_o be_v make_v unto_o they_o so_o they_o be_v only_o a_o thanksgiving_n to_o god_n for_o their_o own_o redemption_n &_o for_o the_o redemption_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o no_o intercession_n bellarm._n 2._o pet._n 1._o 15._o i_o will_v endeavour_n therefore_o always_o that_o you_o may_v be_v able_a to_o have_v remembrance_n of_o these_o thing_n after_o my_o departure_n kemnitius_n saint_n peter_n do_v this_o endeavour_n by_o his_o epistle_n while_o he_o live_v not_o by_o his_o prayer_n after_o he_o be_v dead_a bellarm._n luk._n 16._o the_o glutton_n in_o hell_n pray_v for_o his_o kindred_n much_o more_o do_v the_o just_a in_o heaven_n pray_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n kemnit_fw-la first_o we_o must_v not_o forsake_v the_o scripture_n to_o receive_v instruction_n from_o they_o which_o be_v damn_v in_o hell_n which_o be_v forsake_v of_o god_n seek_v for_o comfort_v any_o where_o rather_o than_o at_o the_o hand_n of_o god_n second_o this_o be_v but_o a_o parable_n and_o not_o a_o story_n three_o if_o it_o be_v a_o story_n yet_o this_o prayer_n be_v not_o hear_v four_o he_o see_v abram_n who_o he_o pray_v unto_o and_o receive_v answer_n from_o he_o what_o be_v this_o to_o saint_n depart_v who_o we_o see_v not_o neither_o hear_v they_o make_v any_o answer_n five_o the_o glutton_n remember_v in_o what_o state_n he_o leave_v his_o kindsfolk_n when_o he_o depart_v but_o they_o may_v have_v repent_v after_o his_o departure_n for_o any_o thing_n that_o he_o know_v this_o prove_v not_o that_o the_o dead_a know_v the_o state_n of_o they_o which_o be_v alive_a neither_o yet_o that_o they_o pray_v for_o the_o church_n in_o general_n that_o saint_n depart_v do_v pray_v for_o particular_a man_n which_o pray_v to_o they_o bellarm_n the_o saint_n do_v not_o only_o pray_v forus_fw-la but_o also_o take_v 18._o charge_n over_o man_n and_o whole_a country_n and_o province_n as_o the_o angel_n do_v concern_v the_o angel_n we_o have_v proof_n toby_n 12._o zach._n 1._o apoc._n 8._o dan._n 10._o psal_n 19_o matth._n 18._o and_o much_o more_o the_o saint_n depart_v which_o be_v as_o the_o angel_n luk._n 20._o and_o have_v a_o prerogative_n above_o angel_n because_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o be_v near_o unto_o we_o and_o better_a able_a to_o have_v a_o feel_n of_o man_n infirmity_n be_v man_n themselves_o kemnit_fw-la the_o book_n of_o toby_n be_v not_o canonical_a to_o prove_v 3._o any_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o for_o example_n of_o good_a life_n that_o angel_n in_o zachary_n be_v our_o saviour_n christ_n which_o make_v intercession_n for_o his_o church_n and_o his_o prayer_n be_v his_o own_o which_o be_v there_o mention_v and_o not_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n the_o angel_n in_o the_o apocalypse_n which_o offer_v the_o prayer_n
catalogue_n of_o heresy_n many_o reckon_v up_o which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o direct_o impugn_v faith_n that_o indeed_o they_o do_v not_o at_o all_o impugn_v the_o faith_n as_o that_o of_o aerius_n which_o deny_v prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o the_o set_a fast_n of_o the_o church_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n first_o these_o father_n which_o make_v such_o long_a catalogue_n of_o heresy_n do_v not_o write_v as_o if_o they_o in_o their_o own_o judgement_n do_v hold_v all_o these_o to_o be_v heresy_n but_o only_o they_o deliver_v what_o opinion_n in_o several_a age_n have_v be_v condemn_v as_o heretical_a leave_v it_o to_o the_o private_a judgement_n of_o the_o reader_n whether_o they_o be_v just_o condemn_v as_o heretical_a or_o not_o but_o themselves_o deliver_v not_o what_o be_v their_o own_o judgement_n for_o say_v he_o quid_fw-la faciat_fw-la haereticum_fw-la regulari_fw-la quâdam_fw-la definitione_n comprehendi_fw-la sicut_fw-la vult_fw-la ego_fw-la existimo_fw-la aut_fw-la omninò_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la aut_fw-la difficillimè_fw-la potest_fw-la to_o deliver_v by_o a_o lawful_a definition_n what_o thing_n make_v a_o heretic_n in_o my_o opinion_n it_o be_v impossible_a or_o at_o least_o of_o great_a difficulty_n again_o vult_fw-la that_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o heresy_n the_o father_n do_v not_o agree_v concern_v the_o number_n of_o they_o but_o some_o reckon_v up_o more_o some_o few_o he_o say_v quod_fw-la utique_fw-la non_fw-la evenisset_fw-la nisi_fw-la aliud_fw-la uni_fw-la eorum_fw-la videretur_fw-la esse_fw-la haeresis_fw-la &_o aliud_fw-la alteri_fw-la the_o cause_n be_v for_o that_o such_o a_o opinion_n as_o seem_v heresy_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o one_o father_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o another_o be_v not_o heretical_a and_o concern_v epiphanius_n the_o bishop_n of_o cypris_n &_o philestrius_n bishop_n of_o brix_n which_o both_o writ_n of_o heresy_n the_o one_o make_v a_o long_a catalogue_n than_o the_o other_o he_o say_v procul_fw-la dubio_fw-la in_o eâ_fw-la quaestione_fw-la ubi_fw-la disceptatur_fw-la quid_fw-la sit_fw-la haeresis_fw-la non_fw-la idem_fw-la videbatur_fw-la ambobus_fw-la &_o river_o à _fw-la hoc_fw-la omnino_fw-la definire_fw-la difficile_fw-la est_fw-la &_o ideo_fw-la cavendum_fw-la quum_fw-la omnes_fw-la in_o numerum_fw-la redigere_fw-la conamur_fw-la ne_fw-la pretermittamus_fw-la aliquas_fw-la quum_fw-la harese_n sint_fw-la aut_fw-la enumeremus_fw-la aliquas_fw-la quum_fw-la haereses_fw-la non_fw-la sint_fw-la that_o which_o seem_v a_o heresy_n to_o one_o of_o they_o do_v not_o seem_v so_o to_o the_o other_o and_o to_o define_v true_o what_o be_v heresy_n be_v very_o hard_a and_o they_o which_o will_v write_v the_o catalogue_n of_o heresy_n must_v be_v very_o circumspect_a lest_o they_o leave_v out_o of_o the_o catalogue_n some_o opinion_n which_o be_v indeed_o heretical_a &_o put_v in_o other_o which_o be_v no_o heresy_n second_o the_o father_n in_o those_o catalogue_n do_v not_o understand_v this_o word_n heresy_n so_o strict_o as_o in_o our_o age_n it_o be_v understand_v but_o general_o for_o every_o sect_n in_o religion_n differ_v from_o the_o receive_a opinion_n of_o the_o church_n as_o vult_fw-la it_o appear_v by_o s._n augustine_n in_o the_o word_n go_v before_o where_o he_o make_v a_o heresy_n and_o a_o sect_n all_o one_o show_v quantum_fw-la inter_fw-la se_fw-la differunt_fw-la de_fw-fr numero_fw-la sectarum_fw-la how_o much_o epiphanius_n and_o philastrius_n descent_n concern_v the_o number_n of_o sect_n where_o he_o call_v they_o sect_n which_o before_o he_o call_v heresy_n and_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n though_o with_o those_o father_n all_o heresy_n do_v not_o direct_o impugn_v the_o faith_n when_o by_o they_o only_a sect_n be_v understand_v but_o to_o make_v every_o opinion_n a_o heresy_n which_o not_o only_o direct_o but_o also_o by_o a_o consequent_a impugn_v faith_n as_o m._n walsingham_n will_v have_v it_o be_v to_o make_v no_o difference_n between_o error_n and_o heresy_n but_o artib_fw-la to_o call_v every_o error_n in_o religion_n a_o heresy_n as_o ludovicus_n vives_z speak_v haeresis_fw-la nomen_fw-la rebus_fw-la levissimis_fw-la impingitur_fw-la the_o name_n of_o heresy_n be_v lay_v upon_o every_o light_a matter_n and_o 7._o of_o he_o it_o may_v one_o time_n or_o other_o be_v verify_v which_o alphonsus_n the_o castro_n speak_v idcirco_fw-la fit_a ut_fw-la hiqui_fw-la tam_fw-la leviter_fw-la de_fw-la haeresi_fw-la pronuntiant_fw-la non_fw-la expendentes_fw-la de_fw-fr quâre_fw-la loquantur_fw-la saepè_fw-la suà _fw-la ipsorum_fw-la sagittâ_fw-la feriantur_fw-la incidantque_fw-la in_o eam_fw-la foveam_fw-la quam_fw-la alijs_fw-la parabant_fw-la it_o happen_v that_o they_o which_o so_o rash_o call_v every_o thing_n heresy_n not_o consider_v whereof_o they_o speak_v be_v oftentimes_o beat_v with_o their_o own_o weapon_n and_o fall_v into_o the_o pit_n which_o they_o dig_v for_o other_o i_o show_v pag._n 10._o how_o pusillanimity_n make_v man_n sometime_o do_v contrary_a to_o their_o own_o conscience_n as_o cardinal_n pole_n who_o die_v say_v the_o protestant_n be_v the_o honest_a man_n i_o will_v be_v a_o protestant_n be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n this_o i_o bring_v for_o example_n to_o illustrate_v not_o for_o argument_n to_o prove_v for_o exempla_fw-la non_fw-la probant_fw-la example_n prove_v not_o he_o turn_v it_o another_o way_n say_v i_o broughtit_fw-fr for_o a_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o protestant_n be_v no_o heretic_n in_o defence_n of_o our_o church_n that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v account_v heretical_a i_o call_v into_o question_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o which_o it_o be_v condemn_v allege_v diverse_a exception_n against_o that_o council_n that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o lawful_a general_a council_n the_o paucity_n of_o the_o bishop_n which_o be_v there_o present_a their_o partiality_n the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_a council_n cite_v by_o bellarmine_n which_o can_v no_o 4._o way_n be_v verify_v of_o that_o assembly_n have_v produce_v these_o argument_n to_o disinable_a that_o council_n he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o repeat_v any_o of_o they_o much_o less_o do_v he_o answer_v they_o only_o he_o say_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o he_o a_o slight_a argument_n and_o to_o give_v more_o advantage_n to_o my_o adversary_n than_o defence_n to_o myself_o and_o my_o cause_n i_o reply_v that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n though_o a_o man_n of_o slight_a judgement_n which_o pass_v over_o all_o other_o thing_n of_o moment_n so_o slight_o do_v esteem_v those_o argument_n to_o be_v so_o slight_a which_o his_o self_n can_v answer_v to_o persuade_v catholic_n too_o come_v to_o our_o church_n i_o show_v how_o the_o learned_a among_o they_o do_v come_v every_o day_n near_o to_o our_o religion_n and_o more_o and_o more_o favour_n our_o opinion_n he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o dream_n i_o wish_v this_o dreamer_n to_o awake_v out_o of_o sleep_n and_o with_o great_a vigilancy_n to_o consider_v of_o the_o particular_n as_o they_o be_v produce_v by_o i_o i_o say_v first_o the_o learned_a catholic_n agree_v with_o we_o concern_v the_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v canonical_a which_o apocrypha_n i_o write_v in_o this_o manner_n the_o book_n of_o toby_n judith_n baruch_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la wisdom_n maccabe_n the_o fragment_n of_o esther_n they_o hold_v to_o be_v canonical_a according_a to_o s._n augustine_n we_o to_o be_v apocrypha_n according_a to_o s._n hierome_n and_o in_o this_o point_n we_o differ_v no_o more_o from_o they_o than_o hierome_n do_v from_o augustine_n which_o do_v both_o agree_v and_o be_v easy_o reconcile_v s._n hierome_n interpret_n s._n augustine_n meaning_n that_o they_o be_v canonical_a enough_o to_o prove_v rule_n of_o life_n not_o ground_n of_o doctrine_n and_o faith_n thus_o have_v we_o deliver_v long_o since_o but_o bellarmine_n 15._o handle_v this_o question_n at_o large_a reply_v not_o against_o we_o nay_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v this_o distinction_n of_o canon_n of_o faith_n and_o canon_n of_o good_a life_n therefore_o we_o take_v it_o as_o a_o thing_n grant_v by_o the_o law_n of_o disputation_n that_o he_o hold_v as_o we_o hold_v rest_v satisfy_v with_o our_o answer_n &_o the_o case_n to_o be_v clear_a between_o we_o both_o m._n walsingham_n blush_v not_o to_o deliver_v a_o notorious_a untruth_n say_v that_o bellarmine_n handle_v this_o distinction_n at_o large_a and_o refute_v the_o same_o in_o his_o first_o book_n de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la cap._n 10._o in_o which_o book_n and_o chapter_n no_o such_o thing_n can_v be_v find_v second_o they_o agree_v with_o we_o concern_v the_o bible_n which_o be_v the_o best_a and_o true_a edition_n for_o whereas_o we_o hold_v the_o original_a text_n only_o to_o be_v authentical_a the_o council_n of_o trent_n sessionis_fw-la obtrude_v to_o we_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a translation_n bellarmine_n prefer_v the_o original_n before_o the_o latin_a as_o we_o do_v m._n walsingham_n be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o charge_v i_o that_o