and other cleargie orders they haue baptisme the Eucharist and all other things He proceedeth affirming that the church was in times past knowne by miracles but now they are either ended or els in greater number with false Christians yea he auerreth that a man might know by the liues of men which was the true Church but now Christians were worse then either hereticks or Ethnicks If this worke were written by an Arrian as some say yet there is no cause to condemne this excellent sentence prooued by so weightie reasons The eight reason Scriptures We haue finished by Gods assistance seuen Reasons some of which as the Doctour seemeth to graunt are nothing worth without Scripture and therefore he saith that they teach not any doctrine but such as is deriued out of the holy Bible If you would abide by this confession you would not hold so many vnwritten opinions as you doe For adoration of Images for the halfe communion for the Popes not erring for the lent fast with other points of Poperie what scripture is there It is one of your principles Cens Colon. that traditiones ecclesiae non scriptae credendae ac seruandae sunt vnwritten traditions are to be beleeued and kept Hence I conclude after this manner They which hold opinions by vnwritten traditions deriue not all their opinions out of the scriptures But the Papists hold some opinions by vnwritten traditions Ergo. But good M. Doctour are we driuen to denie certaine parts of Gods holy Bible for the maintaining of our opinions and are the Manichees our predecessours take heede least by auouching vntruths you doe vastare conscientiam make shipwracke of conscience If Luther reiected the epist of S. Iames what is that to vs Caietane will haue it to be minoris authoritatis quam caeteras Bell. lib. 1. cap. 17. 2. booke 23. of lesse authoritie then the other epistles Eusebius saith sciendum est eam esse adulterinam we must know that it is a bastard epistle Euseb 3.22 cap. Now I reduce your argument into a syllogisme They which refuse bookes of Scripture frame that bible to their opinions But the Protestants refuse bookes of Scripture Ergo. I denie the assumption which is set downe without any proofe and for the disproofe of the same I will not content my selfe with a few fathers but will produce a cloud of witnesses that the Papists may see their proud bragge of fathers Origen at Eusebius speaketh thus Euseb hist 6. booke 24. Hand ignorandum fieret esse veteris testamenti libros sicut Hebraei tradunt viginti duos qui etiam numerus apudeos est literarum We must vnderstand that there are 22. bookes of the old Testament as the Hebrewes doe teach which also is the number of letters Hence I gather that if the Canonicall bookes answer the hebrew letters then there are but 22. otherwise there should be more then the letters are Melito numbreth the same bookes which we doe excepting the booke of Wisdome as witnesseth Eusebius 4. book 25. Cyril of Ierusalem in his 4. catechisme exhorteth the Catechumenes to read 22. bookes but that he reckneth Baruck with Ieremie he reckneth the same which we doe and directly warneth vs vt cum Apocryphis nihil habeamus negotij that we haue nothing to doe with Apocryphal bookes for saith he multò prudentiores te religiosiores fuerint Apostoli primi Episcopi veritatis duces qui nobis eas tradiderunt the Apostles and first Bishops were wiser and more religious then thy selfe they deliuered these scriptures to vs. Leontius in his 2. action of sects agreeth with these authors saying that veteris scripturae libri sunt viginti duo there are 22. bookes of the old testament Innilius reiecteth the Machabees from diuine scripture quoniam apud Hebraeos super hac differentia recipiebantur libri Canonici sicut Hieronymus alijque testantur because with the Iewes the canonicall bookes were receiued with this difference as Ierome and other writers witnesse He reiecteth Iob and some other bookes which are Canonicall by his owne reason namely because they were of that authoritie with the Iewes Amphilochius differeth not from the aboue named writer after that he hath set downe the same number which we doe excepting the booke of Wisdome which yet it may be but put in for verse because he reckneth but three of Salomon after I say he concludeth thus hic verissimus divinitus datarum est scripturarum Canon this is the most true Canon of the diuine scriptures Ruffinus in his exposition vpon the Creede saith that he will describe the Canonicall bookes of the olde testament which he doth after our order in England and acknowledgeth that non Canonicos libros legi voluerunt in ecclesiis sed non proferri ad authoritatem ex his fidei confirmandaÌ„ they wil haue the books that are not Canonicall to be read in Churches but not to be aleadged to confirme a matter of faith I will not produce the testimonies of Hierome Epiphanius Nazianzen Athanasius and others because they are obvious to euery one neither will I conuince the Doctour by his owne writers as Caietan Hugo and Arias Montanus Iosephus is worthie to be heard who plainly teacheth that duo solum viginti libri fide digni esse creduntur Euseb 3. lib. hist â—0 onely 22. bookes are to be credited By this cloud of witnesses I hope Christian Reader thou maist see the vanitie of Papists who doe nothing but crepare patres patres crie the fathers they are on their side I returne the Argument They which adde bookes to diuine scriptures draw the holy Bible to their fancies But the Papists adde whole bookes to diuine scriptures Ergo Where he saith that the Catholikes follow the bible I will not stand vpon that famous corruption of the Hebrew psalter by an English Papist to iustifie their vulgar latin text but come to one place out of which they would gather purgatorie Where it is said that a certaine sinne shall not be forgiuen neither in this world Math. 11. nor in the world to come we expound it by Marke who saith it shall neuer be forgiuen the Papist saith Matthew must not be expouÌ„ded by Marke because he is shorter but is he not plainer How absurd is it to expound these words â—ell lib. 1. de into cap. 4. he hath neuer forgiuenes to this sense whereas to expound the words of Matthew by Marke hath an excellent construction Thus euery man may see who draw the scriptures to their fancies whether Papists or Protestants The 9. reason Councells Whether the Church of God hath euer bin accustomed when any heresie did spring vp therein to gather a Councell of Bishops Prelates and other learned men I will not stand to dispute If your meaning be M. Doctour that nothing is heresie but that which is condemned by a Councell Lib. 4. cont dâ—â—s epist Pelag. in fine I vtterly renounce your vaine conceit Let Augustine
booke of his Confessions shall finde that he did beleeue the Scriptures for themselues In his 14. chap. of the booke cited by the Doctor he writeth thus Quid putas faciendum nisi vt eos relinquamus qui nos invitant certa cognoscere postea imperant vt incerta credamus eos sequamur qui nos invitant prius credere quod nondum valemus intueri vt ipsa side valentiore facti quod credimus intelligere mereamur non iam hominibus sed ipso Deo intrinsecus mentem nostram firmante atque illuminante what haue we to doe but to forsake them that inuite vs to know certaine things and afterwards command vs to beleeue vncertaine things and to follow thē which inuite vs first to beleeue that which yet we are not able to behold that beeing made stronger through faith we may attaine to vnderstand that we beleeue now not men but God himselfe confirming and lightning our minde inwardly The spirit of God therefore must cause vs to beleeue otherwise we shall wauer and stagger To conclude this point many borne in heresie and schisme haue bin mooued by heretikes to beleeue the Scriptures is heresie therfore equal to the scriptures nothing lesse The three Creedes we receiue because the doctrine is contained in the scriptures but you doe not receiue Athanasius his Creede for he maketh but two places vitam aeternam ignem aeternum Omnes homines resurgent cum corporibus suis reddituri sunt de factis preprijs rationem qui benè egerunt ibunt in vitam aeternam qui verò malè in ignem aeternum All men shall rise with their owne bodies and shall giue an account of their deedes and they which haue done well shall goe into life euerlasting they which haue done euill into euerlasting fire You teach that Infants vnbaptized shall be in a brimme of hell and not in the fire of hell Thus if you had bin wise M. Doctor you would haue bin silent concerning these Creeds If I should shew your contrarieties to the Apostles creed I should be ouerlong That the holy Ghost doth proceede from the Father and the Sonne Lib. 2. de Christ cap. 22. Bellarmine prooueth plentifully out of the Scriptures What an ignorant Doctor is this that cannot see this mysterie prooued in holy Scripture Touching the tearmes as person Trinitie consubstantiall Sacraments what if they be not in Scriptures the heauenly doctrine signified by the words is contained in scriptures If these wordes were necessarie to saluation then men were damned before they were inuented which I thinke the Doctor will not grant for many beleeued the things although the names were not extant Augustine calleth the bookes of Tobie and other Canonical because they were read to edification for I hope you will not oppose his authoritie to so many Fathers as I haue before produced In the place by you cited he will haue those books which are receiued of all Churches preferred before those which some Churches receiue not hence it is manifest that he maketh not all of equall authoritie Lib. 2 con gaud cap. 23. Elswhere he will haue the bookes of Machabees read so it be non inutiliter sobriè not vnprofitably and soberly Why doth he giue this caution to these bookes if they were of like authoritie And in his booke de praed Sanct. c. 14. he confesseth when he did produce a testimonie out of the booke of Wisdome that the brethren did reiect it there he contendeth not much for it If it had bin Canonicall he should not haue so remissely pleaded for it Thus it appeareth why he calleth these books canonical Where you say that no heretike can charge the Church with adding or diminishing one iot from the Scriptures we must admire Gods prouidence and his loue towards his church he preserueth the Scriptures though men would take thē out of the world But if you meane that the church of Rome hath not altered the holy Scriptures you must know that the Papists hold the Hebrew and the Greeke text to be corrupt and haue established a Latin translation differing farre from the Hebrew and Greeke and is not this to alter the scriptures If I should shew the corruptions of that trāslation I should be very tedious I will name one in the 1. of the Hebr. it is said Christ hath purged our sinnes by himselfe these words by himselfe are cleane stricken out of their Rhemists translation what an intollerable corruption is this But I will conclude the matter in a syllogisme They which establish a corrupt translation alter the scriptures or at least a iot of the same But the Papist establish a corrupt translation Ergo. And indeede I cannot sufficiently wonder at them who establish their Latine translation eo nomine because it is Hieroms and yet will not allow his translations of the Psalmes what dealing with the Scriptures is this he hath corrected that translation of the Psalmes which they vse and yet they haue defied it You further demand why we should trust the Church of Rome rather in this then in other things I answer first that as I haue prooued we trust not the Church of Rome but the scriptures themselues secondly it is a ridiculous consequent We beleeue the church of Rome in this point ergo we must doe so in all other To make your follie manifest vnto you selfe M. D. you beleeue the church of England in some points will you doe so in all I would it were so That we haue had nothing to doe with the Bible for a thousand yeares and that we haue robbed the Church of many bookes are detestable vntruths But I pray you Syr were not the scriptures preserued in the Greeke church as well as in the Romish church did not the Iewes keepe the scriptures and yet to vse your phrase our Sauiour wrested thē out of their hands not as iust but as vniust possessours of them The Pharisies might haue vsed the same speech to our Sauiour Christ that the Doctor doth to vs. He hath three other questions in this chapter The first is how we relying onely vpon scripture can shew certainly which bookes be scripture and which not This question I haue at large answered in this chapter and therefore I will not repeat my answer Secondly he would know of the vnlearned Protestant how he knoweth the translations to be true I answer that it is not necessarie to know euery thing to be truly translated The spirit of God speaking in the scriptures certifieth the conscience of the vnlearned that the scriptures in the English tongue are the scriptures The third question it why we beleeue our owne iudgements rather the Luthers or Calvins I answer we beleeue their iudgements that bring best proofes out of Scriptures But M. Doctor because you haue posed vs with so many questions now I will pose you with one likewise Why doe you receiue your latin translation rather vpon this Popes authoritie
things but in scoffing manner if you doe seriously hold them prooue them seriously and not with ridiculous authorities The 11. reason Triall of truth That it appertaineth to the Church to trie and to discerne Spirits as also to determine and to decide doubts we confesse M. D. Trie all things saith Paul 1 Thess 5. 1. Ioh. 4. and S. Iohn commandeth vs to prooue the Spirits But the question is whether you are the Church or no Quid ergo facturi sumus what shall we doe I answer with Augustine propounding this question cap. 2. de vnitat that we must seeke the Church of Christ in his word qui veritas est optimè novit corpus suum who is truth best knoweth his bodie Where you say that we cannot otherwise but receiue the scriptures vpon the catholike Romane churches credit and also three Creedes and some articles of beleefe as the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne and many tearmes as person Trinitie consubstantiall Sacraments I will answer these points seuerally And first I desire to know what reason you haue to make a particular church as the Romane church Catholike The Romane church if it were a true church is but a part of the catholike church It is Catholike saith Augustine because it is per totum through the whole world de vnit cap. 5. Cyril in his 18. chap. among many reasons of the name giueth this Quia per vniversum sit orbem terrarum diffusa because it is diffused thorough the whole world Is it all one to say I beleeue the Catholike Church and to say I beleeue the Romane church To leaue this matter and to come to your speech that it is not possible to know the Bible which is vsed amongst Christians to be the true word of God indeede but vpon the Romane churches credit First such idle questions the olde heretikes the Manichees demanded of S. Augustine to whome S. Augustine answered Lib. 32. cap 21. cont Faust Man Si quaeratis à nobis vnde nos sciamus Apostolorum esse istas literas breuiter vobis respondemus inde nos scire vnde vos scitis illas literas esse Manichaei If you demand of vs how we know that these be the Apostles writings we shape you this short answer as you know that your writings are of the heretike Manichee Secondly I would know how you can prooue any church to be the church but by the Scriptures if you cannot prooue the church but by the Scriptures then the Authoritie of the church dependeth vpon them and not è contra Thirdly we receiue not the Scriptures vpon the Romane churches credit for then we should haue receiued also the bookes which are Apocrypha as well as the true Canon of the bible for the Romane church doth receiue them Fourthly we receiue the Scriptures from the Scriptures themselues Many men by the heauenly maiestie of the Scriptures are mooued to receiue them before they know which is the true church Gonarus con Cost Iustin Martyr saith that Christs words haue in thâ—â— feare to perswade in dialogo cum Try Mantuan de pat l. 3. c. 2. saith thus Firmiter scripturas ideo credimus quòd diuinam inspirationem intra accipimus we steadfastly beleeue the scriptures because we haue receiued an inward inspiration from God He that will despise the Scriptures will despise the Church He that will not beleeue there is a God because the Scriptures teach it will not beleeue it because the Church teacheth the same The Scriptures were credited before the Romane church was ens or in rerum natura The Apostles beleeued the Gospel of our Sauiour Christ before he wrought any miracle because it was testified by the scriptures Ioh. 1.46 Adam and others beleeued without the church Our Sauiour Christ preached Repent and beleeue the Gospel which some did without the Church Eusebius in his third booke and 21. chap. writeth that the Gospels of Thomas and others were reiected because that phraseos character à consuetudine Apostolica variat ipsa sententia propositum eorum quae in illis adferuntur plurimum à veritate rectae doctrinae discrepant the style doth varie from the Apostolicall manner and the matter and the intent of those things which are alleadged in them doe much differ from the truth of right doctrine The consent of Scriptures the miracles and prophesies with many other arguments draw a man to credit the same yea the deadly hatred which the world beareth vnto them perswadeth not a little Sacris Scripturis saith Bellarmine nihil est notius Lib. 1. cap. 2. de vâ—â— Dâ—i nihil certius there is nothing more knowne and certaine then the Scriptures Read Bellarmine your selfe M. Doctor that he may satisfie you in this point But if we beleeue the Scriptures by the Church doth not the church teach vs to beleeue by the scriptures how can the church rightly perswade vs to beleeue but by preaching and producing of scriptures Ergo the scriptures are of much more force then the bare name of a church For propter quod vnumquodque tale est illud magis tale if the church induceth vs to beleeue then the scriptures doe much more because the church doth it by the scriptures The church is an excellent meanes ordained of God to bring men to beleefe neither doe we contemne the authoritie thereof The Samaritans beleeued by the testimonie of a woman Ioâ— 4. but afterward they beleeued because of Christ himselfe so the Church may bring one to beleeue but afterward to beleeue for the word it selfe The testimonie of Augustine is fraudulently alleadged by you his word is commoveret for he saith As there were many things which held him in the faith so if he were an infidel he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authoritie of the church with other things did mooue him ergo not onely the church and he speaketh if he were an infidell as the wordes going before doe plainly manifest Si invenies aliquem if thou shouldest finde any which yet doth not beleeue the Gospel what wouldest thou doe saying to thee I doe not beleeue then immediatly followeth your sentence I would not beleeue vnlesse c. Nicholaus Clenangis is worthie to be heard concerning this testimonie of Augustine Disp super Gâ—â— con Mirum sane prima specie satis videtur at the first fight it is maruell that he should preferre the authoritie of the church being a stranger in the earth before the authoritie of the Gospel seeing the Church may be deceiued in many things and the Gospel cannot Afterward he giueth the reason of Augustines speach because the Manichees did reiect Scriptures at their pleasures To stand yet somewhat longer in this testimonie Con. lib. 5 c. 1â— Augustine was mooued to beleeue by Ambrose is Ambrose his authoritie therefore equall to the scriptures God forbid whosoeuer listeth to read the 5. chap of the 6.
and the merit of his passion beeing content with one of them himselfe giueth the other to me I wish all Papists and Monkes for their saluation sake were of Bernards minde and I thinke this is to recant Monachisme for Monkes looke for saluation by their merits and workes Lib. 2. de grat c. 15. I will set downe that excellent place of Luke with Bellarmines glosse vpon it Feare not little flocke it is your fathers pleasure to giue you a kingdome Verbum complacuit nomen pater vocubula illa pusillus grex indicant gratiam non Justitiam The word it pleaseth the nowne father and these words little floke shewe grace not iustice Thus the kingdome of heauen is an inheritance giuen vs of our Father not deserued by vs. The last lie is some Protestants affirme the Fathers to haue thought otherwise then they wrote this is true of Papists For the Rhemists beeing pressed with Chrysostomes authoritie for the reading of Scriptures by Laymen say that he spake as e pulpit mā and not as a teacher belike pulpit men speake not that which they thinke Let the Reader then iudge whether you say the Fathers spake as they thought or no. For further triall of this I referre the Reader to that which I haue alleadged out of Bellarmine concerning the Fathers in the Reason of Fathers Hierom in his apologie to Paumichius saith that some things are spoken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alia 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for exercise sake and other things for opinions sake ergo the fathers spake not all things dogmatically but some things rhetorically Nazianzen also biddeth his chaire farewell The rest of the chapter concerneth Luther whose speeches haue beene somewhat vehement but not knowing the reason which he might haue to vse such I can neither absolue him nor condemne him for them I will now set downe popish lies I begin with the Doctors in the first chapter he saith that in England it is manifest that all were Papists without exception from the first christening thereof vntil this age of King Henrie the eight This as I haue proued is a famous lie witnesse Wickliffe who liued in England and yet was he no papist The second lie is that hereticks haue euer taken their names of some one who began that heresie this is a lie for some heretickes as the Catharists are called of their sect and not of the author The third lie is in the third chapter the Catholikes haue euer kept vnitie and concord in such a peaceable manner as neuer any one in England or Ireland dissented or disagreed in any point of doctrine from him which liued in the vtmost parts of the East This is such a lie as needeth no manifestation of it Yet I will name one point more then I haue before Hart. Some papists in England held that the Pope may depose Princes others denie it The fourth lie is in the same chapter where he saith that all decrees of lawfull Councels and Popes doe agree in all points of doctrine one with another This I haue prooued a lie Fiftly in the 5. chapter he saith that all countreies which euer beleeued in Christ were first cōuerted to his faith by such as were either precisely sent or at the least wise had their authoritie from the Pope who liued in the time in which they were conuerted This I haue prooued a lie Sixtly in the same chapter he saith that Iesuites are executed in England onely in regard of their sacred function which to be a lie their owne bookes can testifie besides the confession of Papists Seauenthly in the fift reason he belieth M. Caluin calling him a Sere backt priest for Sodomie For I will omit the lie of persecution onely in England in the same chapter Eightly in the tenth chapter he saith that Catholike Romane religion is taught by all the auntient Fathers of the first second third fourth fift and sixe hundred yeares Ninthly in the 13. chap. he saith that we meddle litle with restitution of goods but leaue all at large to our followers without restraint of any such crime 10. In the same chapter he saith the Protestant teacheth the landlord to doe what he listeth with his own 11 In the same place he saith that we teach not reward of good and bad life in the world to come which all men can testifie to be a lie although we disclaime the merit of good works yet we teach the merit of sinne 12 In the 14. Reason he saith that we denie the perpetuall virginitie of Marie which is an vntruth In the 15. Reason he hath many lies first that we haue nothing but a number of pelting obiections taken out of Caluins Institutions or out of the Magdebursens or some hereticall pamphlet Secondly he saith that we trouble our selues with nothing but with the controuersies of this time Thirdly that Protestants doe scarce vnderstand the tearmes of learned sciences which others doe fully possesse Fourthly he saith that the Clergie in Queene Maries time was more learned then now it is Fiftly he saith that the most learned Doctor of them all is vtterly ignorant of schoole diuinitie Sixtly he saith that the Protestant neuer medleth with cases of conscience but fraighteth his ship onely with faith and neuer beateth his braine about sinnes In the sixteenth Reason he saith that all the ministers nowe are naught yea he asketh in the same chap. what woman is nowe married without touch of her honestie I will gather no moe lies out of this Doctor I will set downe some out of other Papists The Rhemists vpon the sixt of Luke write that Protestants are wont to say All is very easie which is a lie Againe say they the Protestants thinke that to burne is to be tempted onely which is a lie 1. Cor. 7. Thirdly vpon the 9. chap. of the first epist of Paul to the Cor. they say that protestants will not haue men worke well in respect of reward at Gods hands which is a lie I desire thee Christian reader to read the Rhemists annotatiōs where thou shalt finde many slaunders but I delight not in these things Bellarmine affirmeth that Caluin maketh God the author of fin againe he saith that Caluin holdeth that the saints departed are not blessed he saith also that he died calling vpon the deuill which are monstrous lies Genebrard accuseth Caluin of errour in saying that the sonne of God is God of himselfe Bellarmine defendeth Caluine against Genebrard nowe let euery man iudge of this syllogisme They which are lyars are of a false religion But the Papists are lyars ergo Christian reader I would not haue vsed this tearme of lying so often but that I haue beene vrged by the Doctor For railing I referre thee to M. Hardings workes as also to Doctor Stapletons writings against M. Doctor Whitakers in which thou maist see the spirit of papists The 20. reason Keeping in memorie Gods benefits That the memorie of Gods benefits is carefully to
temple and a church as I haue prooued Thirdly he saith that by meanes of Images pictures crosses the most vnlearned amongst the people knowe more of the misteries of christian religion then some of our ministers know If this be so it is a horrible shame for ministers for this I know that some vnlerned people haue worshipped Images as gods but indeed what is this but to contemne gods wisome and ordinance who hath not ordained Images to teach the people but his word to instruct them Take heed M. Doctor of this horrible sinne to make your selues wiser then God Fourthly the Doctor saith that we haue noe more warrant for solemnizing of the sonday then we haue for S. Lawrence his day for other reason or warrant we haue none but the authoritie of the Roman church fye fye M. Doctor that you should thus bewray your ignorance Bellarmine in his third booke de cul Sanct. and 11. chap. prooueth the obseruation of the Lordes day by the scriptures if you can prooue the obseruation of S. Lawrance his day by the same warrant you may doe well to shewe vs some of your arguments Other things of lesse moment I let passe because I labour for breuitie The 21. reason The Protestants beginning and proceeding against their consciences This chapter hath many wordes to little purpose first Luther is charged to say that he could see into another mans heart or cōscience who will beleeue Luther should speake thus except he meant he could doe it by plaine words and manifest deeds this M. Doctor you confesse your selfe may be done I hope if Luther saie that he could see into another mans conscience he had no other meaning but by plaine words and manifest deeds Luther was not so sottish as you would beare men in hand to make himselfe a God But M. Doctor if your reason be good to prooue that some Protestants speake and write against their consciences because they suspect others to doe so for commonly a man thinketh others to be as himselfe is then you speake and write against your conscience because you are suspitious yea vpon ridiculous reasons and vntruths you charge men to write against their consciences This is your own reason and argument and therefore cannot be denied For proofe that you charge men to write against their cōsciences onely vpon ridiculous reasons let the reader iudge I will set down your arguments Luther confessed that he began against his conscience ergo he proceeded so M. Doctor to admit your antecedent who wil graunt your consequent for here you say that he proceeded so farre as he thought that by desperate necessitie he must go on and so compare him to Iulius Caesar The truth is he ended his life most heauenly as M. Doctor Whitakers sheweth out of Melancthon and Sleidon We will not credit your slaunderous writings of him but the writings of the forenamed men From Luther the Doctor commeth to Zwinglius who is said to haue denied secretly the reall presence for many yeres before he brake off frō the Roman Church but yet inwardly he dissembled his mind What then if Zwinglius did thus did he therefore proceed against his conscience because he remained sometime in the Romane church after he had seene the trueth of the Sacrament What honest man would shape such conclusions If this be to proceede against conscience Papists in England proceede against their consciences for they continue in our Church though they secretly dissemble their opinions many examples hereof might be giuen Touching Nemo the Anabaptiste what haue we to doe with him The Protestants haue most soundly confuted the sect of Anabaptists when Papists haue taken their ease And Christian Reader I desire thee to behould howe the Doctor dealeth whether against his owne conscience or no I leaue to God in charging vs with Anabaptists speeches whereas we renounce such lewd sectaries as he himselfe can testifie Thomas Bell is as I thinke aliue and therefore can answer for himselfe Wherefore I leaue him who hath learnedly written against Poperie and come to Melancthon who is charged to proceede against his conscience because he was sad and gaue himselfe to weeping O M. Doctor howe doe you forget your selfe is euery one a sinner against his conscience that weepeth and sorroweth and that cannot by and by be comforted Dauid was many times heauie and his soule had not alwaies comfort yet was Dauid a man after Gods owne heart Concerning Carolastadius I will not say any thing neither doe I regard what any Lutherane hath written of Zuinglius and Oecolampadius As for Bucer it is a lewde slaunder that he had no religion at all God wil be reuenged of you M. Doctor for blaspheming his seruants after this manner Bishop Iuell is charged to shewe himselfe without God and conscience he doth rent in peeces the text of Doctors and inuerteth the sense of the same If this reuerend Bishoppe had done thus his enemies would haue found it no doubt M. Doctor you would haue noted some places but seeing you haue noted no such corruptions we account it a detestable lie No no your owne men change the words of Fathers I will referre you to places Bellarm. lib. 1. de grat lib. arbit cap. 11. doeth shamefully corrupt Augustine as I haue shewed in another worke and in his 4. booke de amiss gra and 9. chap. he rendeth in peeces Hieroms saying Againe in his 3. booke de cult Sanct. cap. 9. he doeth horribly cite Eusebius So doeth he also in his 1. booke de Sanct. beat cap. 13. Thus he dealeth not onely with Fathers but with Caluin in his preface de libero arbit and his first booke de Sanct. beat cap. 1. 2. de iustif cap. 8. Read these places your selfe M. Doctor and compare them with the authors and see who corrupt fathers Many other testimonies I could produce but I desire not to be tedious If you could alleadge so many corruptions out of reuerend Iuell I thinke we should haue seene them Thus I pray you consider your owne argument They which corrupt Fathers sinne against their conscience But the Papists corrupt Fathers ergo Pag. 10. The assumption is prooued by the testimonies alleadged and to giue you one or two more Duraeus citing Augustine leaueth out these words Opera sequuntur iustificatum non praecedunt iustificandum Workes followe him that is iustified they goe not before iustification The Rhemists vpon the 19. of Mathew peruert Augustine his words cleane contrarie to his meaning affirming no man to be excluded from the gift of continencie whereas Augustine his meaning is that both the will to be chaste and the power to fulfill that will is the gift of God Nowe I might followe your example of bitternes seeing I haue giuen you so many corruptiōs but I leaue this course and desire you to remember your own argument I come to Papists who seeme to haue proceeded against their owne consciences One Papist in England as