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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20770	A treatise of the true nature and definition of justifying faith together with a defence of the same, against the answere of N. Baxter. By Iohn Downe B. in Divinity, and sometime fellow of Emanuel C. in Cambridge.; Selections	Downe, John, 1570?-1631.; Baxter, Nathaniel, fl. 1606.; Bayly, Mr., fl. 1635.; Muret, Marc-Antoine, 1526-1585. Institutio puerilis. English.	1635 (1635)	STC 7153; ESTC S109816	240,136	421

to deserue or not to deserue credit Con. Parmen l. 5. And Optatus B. of Milenis you affirme wee deny betweene your yea and our nay the soules of the people wauer and stagger Let no man belieue either you or vs Wee are all contentious men Wee must seeke out iudges If Christians both sides cannot yeeld them and part taking would hinder truth Wee must seeke for a iudge without If a Pagan hee knowes not the mysteries of Christianity if a Iew hee is an enemie to Christian Baptisme Therefore vpon earth no iudgment touching this matter can bee found Wee must seeke a iudge from heauen But why knocke wee at heauen seeing herein the Gospell wee haue his will and testament With these Fathers your owne men accord The holy doctrine saith Thomas of Aquin Sum. p. 1. q. 1. a. 8. ad 2. vseth such authorities of profane writers as forraine and probable arguments but the authorities of Canonicall Scripture it vseth arguing properly and necessarily and the authorities of the Doctors of the Church as disputing indeed properly yet onely probably For our Faith relyeth on that reuelation which was made to the Apostles and Prophets who wrote the Canonicall books De verb. Dei l. 1. c. 2. but not on reuelation made to other Doctors if any such haue beene And Bellarmin The sacred Scripture is the rule of Faith most safe and certaine and God hath taught vs by corporall letters which wee may see and read what he would haue vs belieue concerning him And Stapleton Del. con Whit. l. 2. De rat Con. l. 2. c. 19. The diuine Scriptures alone yeeld infallible testimony and such as is meerely diuine And Persius also The authority of no Saint is of infallible truth for S. Augustin giues that honour onely to the sacred Scripture But why vouch I human authority hauing diuine God himselfe by the Prophet summons vs vnto the law and to the testimony Esa 8.20 affirming that if any speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Ioh. 5.39 Our Sauiour Christ commandeth to search the Scriptures as which testify of him and wherein eternall life is to bee had Luc. 16 3● Abraham referred the rich gluttons brethren to Moses and the Prophets assuring himselfe that if they refused to heare them neither would they be perswaded though one rose from the dead The holy Apostle Paul chargeth vs not to presume aboue that which is written 1. Cor. 4.6 in as much as the Scriptures are able to make vs wise vnto saluation through the Faith that is in Christ Iesus 2. Tim. 3.15.16.17 and are profitable for doctrine for reproofe for correction for instruction in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee perfect Luc. 1.3.4 throughly furnished vnto all good works To what end did Saint Luke write his Gospell was it not that we might know the certainty of those things wherein wee are instructed Phil. 3.1 This saith Saint Paul is a very safe course And hence was it that the Bereans searched the Scripture so carefully Act. 17.11 that they might bee fully assured of those things which were taught thē We haue a more sure word of Prophecy 2. Pet. 1.19 saith Saint Peter whereunto yee doe well that yee take heed as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place vntill the day dawne and the day starre arise in your hearts But S. Paul is yet more peremptory Though we saith hee Gal. 1.8 or an Angell from heauen preach any other Gospell vnto you then that which wee haue preached vnto you let him bee accursed Contra Haer. c. 12. What is it saith Vincentius Lirinensis that hee saith though wee Why not rather though I His meaning is though Peter though Andrew though Iohn yea though the whole Colledge of Apostles preach vnto you otherwise then wee haue preached let him bee anathema A fearefull straine for the maintenance of the first Faith neither to spare himselfe nor his fellow Apostles It is but a little Although saith hee an Angell from heauen preach otherwise then wee haue preached vnto you let him bee Anathema It sufficed not for the preseruation of the Faith once deliuered to mention the nature of humane condition vnlesse he comprehended Angelicall excellency also Though saith hee wee or an Angell from heauen Thus you see that the Faith which was first deliuered and is now contained in the Scripture is the soueraigne rule and iudge of all the doctrines both of men and Angels For whatsoeuer the Apostles preached the same is written as Irenaeus testifieth Lib. 3. c. 2. Whereupon Saint Augustin As touching Christ or his Church Cont. Petil. l. 3. c. 6. or any other thing pertaining to our Faith or life I will not say if wee who are no way to bee compared with him that said Though wee but as it is added if an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherWise then what yee haue receiued in the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures let him be accursed Happily you will say the Scripture is indeed the rule of Faith and the law of the Church but not the Iudge or if Iudge yet but a mute and dumbe Iudge and if there bee not some externall visible audible infallible vnerring Iudge to interpret Scriptures and to stint all controuersies there will neuer bee an end of quarels neither will there euer bee peace and vnity in the Church Indeed the name of vnity and peace is a goodly thing and a finall end of all controuersies might it bee had were much to bee wished for But I feare the Church will not bee so happy so long as it dwelleth in tabernacles and is militant here on earth 2. Cor. 11.18.19 Otherwise the holy Apostle would neuer haue written thus to the Corinthians I heare that there bee diuisions among you and I partly belieue it For there must bee also heresies among you that they which are approued may be made manifest among you And the generall experience of former ages confirmeth the same wherein God continually hath exercized his Church either with the fire of persecutions that it might appeare who they are that loue him more then the present world or with the tempests of contrary doctrines that it might bee knowne who are chaffe and who wheat who sound in the Faith and who not Besides this mee thinks the facilnesse and easinesse of the way which your new Masters prescribe vnto you should make you much to suspect the goodnesse of it For whereas it is the good pleasure of God that all men should carefully diligently studie the holy Scriptures Psal 1.2 119. reading them and meditating in them night and day to the end they may grow rich in all knowledge and vnderstanding you by your rule may spare all this paines and though you sit still take your ease and fold your hands yet if you belieue whatsoeuer your externall human iudge

or word Rest you shall hardly perswade mee that hee will take it for any other then the effect of true Iustifying Faith I. D. Neither is it your vaine surmising what Master Perkins would say Neither his expresse and direct saying that may be the decider of this controuersie How well that worthy man deserued of the Church of God wherein hee was like another Baptist both a shining and a burning torch Ioh. 5.35 I cannot bee ignorant who knew him so well and very vngratefull were I if I should not acknowledge to haue receiued a good part of that little skill I haue in my profession from his mouth hauing beene for sundry yeeres his ordinary auditor Yet because hee was not a Peter or a Paul nor so preserued from error by the Spirit of truth that hee could mistake in nothing I hope I may without arrogance and with reseruation of due reuerence honor vnto his worth in some points dissent from him And if you may seat Faith both in the vnderstanding and the will notwithstanding that M. Perkins place it only in the vnderstanding On the Creed affirming that it scarce standeth with reason that one single grace should inhere in two distinct faculties why may not I take the same liberty vnto my selfe and define Iustifying Faith by Affiance although M. Perkins would take it for no other then the Effect of Iustifying Faith for so indeed hee doth and I deny not but freely confesse that vpon the reasons aboue rendred I doe in this point altogether differ from him Neither yet did I say that I blanked him with my rare and cunning disputes for this is but the renewing of your old slander the vanity of which I haue already detected Onely it seemes that your best wine is wel-nie spent seeing now you serue your guests with these dregs and that you are driuen to a very narrow strait when you are faine to arme against me such base calumniations and fictions of your owne braine N. B. When you send me to Master Foxe in his Booke de Christo gratis justificante without citing the place where or the words what of mee your speech deserueth none answer but this I dare vndertake you abuse the writings of so reuerend a man I. D. The authority of Master Foxe was not vouched by me to iustify my Definition that Faith is Affiance but to ouerthrow yours who affirme that Faith is Assurance and therefore was placed as was fitting after those arguments which I vrged against you Neuerthelesse here it pleaseth you after your desultory and disorderly manner of disputing in a very vndue place to giue answer vnto it And the reason why with such violence you hale it hither as I guesse is this that not appearing where it should it may seeme to giue no euidence at all against your Assurance and being ordered where it should not it may seeme to bee but idly alledged as being of no force to maintaine my Affiance But yet let vs see what exceptions you take to eleuate this authority Because I cite not the place where nor the words what my speech you say deserues no answer I wisse M. Baxter that booke is not of such bulke but that perusing the titles of each Chapter you might soone haue found out the places by me intended and you know that the schedule I sent you being endited at Bristoll where I was farre from my bookes I could not possibly referre you vnto the very page and line as otherwise I would haue done But now because I haue the booke at hand I will set you downe his direct words and quote you the page where you may read them and then leaue you to bee iudge your selfe whether as you charge mee I abuse the writings of that reuerend man or hee agree with mee in this that Faith is not Assurance Foxe Master Foxe therefore in his booke de Christo gratis iustificante pag. 246 saith thus My iudgement and opinion is that this confidence of mercy and certainty of Saluation promised is a thing which ought to bee very neerely conioined with Faith and which euery one ought necessarily to apply vnto himselfe yet being most applied is not that which onely by it selfe properly and absolutely dischargeth vs of our sinnes and iustifies before God but that there is some other thing propounded in the Gospell which in nature goeth before this certainty and iustifieth before God For Faith vpon the Person of the Sonne of God whereby wee are first reconciled vnto God necessarily goes before Againe pag. 253. Although saith hee certainty and assurance of diuine grace which it selfe is sometime commended vnder the name of Faith bee very neerely ioined with Faith yet this assurance doth not properly import the cause of iustifying but receiueth it being brought neither worketh iustification but is rather wrought by it and maketh them certaine who by the Faith of Christ are iustified but it selfe iustifieth not And yet againe pag. 255. If the question bee of the cause which properly iustifieth from sinne I answer it is that Faith not whereby wee belieue that wee are iustified but whereby wee belieue in Christ the Sonne of God Thus M. Foxe and thus by M. Foxe it appeareth as I affirmed that in this point I am not singular and alone Yet to preuent captious cauils you may bee pleased to vnderstand that the Latin word vsed by Master Foxe to wit Fiducia I haue in my translation englished Confidence and Assurance not that I was afraid lest rendring it Affiance hee might seeme to exclude my affiance also from the Definition of Faith for had hee done so it were nothing to mee hauing shewed that hee denies Faith to be Assurance which was all I there affirmed of him but because if you marke his words attentiuely you shall find that by Fiducia hee vnderstands not Affiance but confident Perswasion or Assurance for hee doth euer confound it with Certainty and expresly defines it to bee that whereby wee are assured of our iustification by Christ So doth Melancthon also and Kemnitius and many others vnderstanding by Fiducia a firme Perswasion that our sinnes are certainly remitted by the propitiation of Christ and all the benefits of the promise of grace giuen communicated and applyed vnto vs. So that vnlesse I would haue depraued my authors meaning I could not translate otherwise then I haue done N. B. Now thinke not that I hold that a man ordinarily saued may be saued without relying vpon Christ Iesus for I hold the cleane contrary viz. that true Iustifying Faith assuring a man in spirituall knowledge of his owne saluation in Iesus Christ worketh and causeth a sweet rest and reposing of the whole soule vpon Christ and his Merits But I deny that this Rest is Faith or this Faith Rest no more then the tree can be the fruite or the fruite the tree I. D. That no man can ordinarily bee saued without Relying vpon Christ I grant for according to my

shall dictate vnto you you are safe and cannot miscarry Now among simple and vnlettered Papists who is this Iudge but some Priest or Iesuite for other Iudge I am sure they meet with none A plausible course I confesse to many specially those that are idle and loth to take paines or weake and dare not trust their owne iudgement or superstitious and thinke they merit much by their blind obedience vnto their teachers But how plausible soeuer it may seeme to flesh and blood sure I am it is too broad to bee the narrow way that leadeth vnto life and the Kingdome of Heauen will neuer be attained vnlesse it suffer more violence then so I adde further it is too presumptuous to tie Diuine Prouidence vnto humane policy and for man first to deuise what in his wisdome seemeth fittest and then to resolue that therefore God hath ordered it so Yet this is the course your side ordinarily holdeth you loue rather to giue lawes vnto God then to take lawes from him and in this particular to prescribe what meanes God should appoint to settle vs in the knowledge of his truth rather then to vse the meanes which hee himselfe hath to that end appointed If you thinke this too hard a censure be it knowne vnto you that Bellarmine the Prince of Iesuits reasoneth so God saith hee De verb. Dei l. 3. c. 9. was not ignorant that many difficulties concerning the Faith would rise vp in the Church hee ought therefore to prouide some Iudge for the Church What Iudge Such a one doubtlesse as by his sole authority and sentence must bee able to resolue all difficulties Which for as much as neither Scripture no● any secular Prince can doe therefore it must needs bee the Prince of Ecclesiasticall that is the Pope See I beseech you how peruersly and preposterously they deale with you first they take vpon them to direct God wh●● what he should doe or else forsooth he shall not be prouident and discreet enough and then thrust their owne fancy vpon you as a point of Faith that God hath done it But to answer this yet a little more fully I affirme three things First that holy Scripture knowes not secondly that the ancient Fathers acknowledge not thirdly that as long as wee haue the Scripture there needs not any such standing humane Iudge in the Church as you dreame of As touching the first if you know any passage of Scripture wherein God hath authorized such a Iudge as you dreame of I require you to shew it for my part I know none Expresse Scripture I am sure you cannot shew deductions and consequences by your owne rule I haue no reason to admit For example if for proofe hereof you vrge that of our Sauiour to S. Peter I haue prayed for thee that thy Faith faile not Luc. 22.32 I would demand who shall bee iudge of the meaning of these words for I heare that Christ hath prayed for Saint Peter but I heare not that hee hath prayed for the Pope that his Faith fayle not and I know Saint Peter was firme and constant in the faith vnto his liues end but it seemes by Ecclesiasticall Hystory that sundry Popes haue made shipwracke of the Faith and become Hereticks If there be no Iudge to determine this doubt why doe you thrust such a Iudge vpon vs If there bee who is hee you will say the Pope Then thus you reason Christ prayed for S. Peter that his Faith might not faile by S. Peter the Pope also is vnderstood and this appeares because the Pope saith so therefore neither can the Popes Faith faile and consequently he is the ordinary infallible Iudge of the Church More briefly thus the Pope is that Iudge because the Pope will haue it so Nominate what other Iudge soeuer you list and what other Text besides you please and the argument is still the same too weake to persuade what you intend vnlesse by some new priuiledge out of any premisses you may conclude what you will In a word search the Scriptures throughout and you shall finde the Ministery and seruice of men established to bring vs to the Faith but an infallible humane magistery and Lordship to command Faith it knowes none That prerogatiue Royall it reserues onely vnto Christ himselfe Neither doe the ancient Fathers acknowledge any such Iudge which is the second point If they doe point I pray to the place for hitherto it hath beene vnknowne Many and sharp bickerings had those ancients with diuers and sundry Heretiks as Arius Macedonius Eutyches Nestorius and the like yet neuer did they either obiect vnto them that they wanted an infallible Iudge as you doe vnto vs or conuent them before the tribunall of such a Iudge which doubtlesse had beene a readier way then disputation to stop their mouths had there been such a soueraigne Officer in the Church Sundry and manifold are the writings of the ancient Fathers touching the Christian Faith of which some also were purposely written to instruct vs in all the doctrines of our religion and is it not strange that such men in such books remembring carefully all other points should forget so maine and principall a point as this is Nay more then this Tertullian long agoe wrote a booke of Prescriptions or Fore-pleadings against Hereticks Saint Augustin also wrote foure books of Christian Doctrine wherein his direct intent is to prescribe rules how to vnderstand and interpret Scripture And Vincentius Litinensis also hath written a short Commonitory for the Antiquity and Verity of the Catholike Faith against the profane nouelties of all Heresies If these Fathers had acknowledged this your imaginary Iudge how commeth it to passe that they no where mention him in these books For certainly here was the proper place and they could not without extreame supinity and negligence omit him had they knowne such a one such a one I say as vpon whom the security of Faith and vnity of the Church dependeth But this deep silence of theirs and that in so due a place and of matter so important euidently argues that they neuer were acquainted therewith and that it is but an Idole of these latter times Now if neither Scripture nor Fathers know such a Iudge I hope I may bee bold to inferre that the Church needs him not which is the third point For I trow this is both a safer and sounder kind of reasoning then that of yours Such a Iudge wee conceiue to bee necessary Therefore such a one hath God ordained But to cleere this point also I affirme that the Scriptures by themselues through Gods blessing vpon our endeauour is a sufficient outward meanes to bring vs to saluation and therefore there is no necessity of your externall Iudge The Consequence is plaine and euident the Antecedent thus I proue because all whatsoeuer is necessary to saluation is so cleerely and manifestly deliuered in them euen to the capacity of vulgar and ordinary men that if they