of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE first Booke Pag. 2. lin 37. Wylie 15. 11. vainelie 62. 21. renforce 64. 35. come 65. 8. the. 82. 8. runneth forth almost into ouer great 90. in the marg ad illumin 91. 4. soone 103. 28. immortall 111. 16. litterallie 118. 13. textes 33. as expreslie 124. 33. left 126. 13. one of other 130. 24. Spanianum 156. 32. without confusion 169. 26. brandes 177. 29. which with 184. 15. learned 186. 5. contra 206. 37. put out that 212. 8. hic 29. fiat hoc 215. 22. 〈◊〉 228. 1. is 237. 28. some 239. 17. haue 240. 30. a thought yet raueth 256. 8. dare not 274. 21. greatest fault 279. 31. Pacianus 280. 10. quotations 282 5. remaineth 299. read the 9. line before the 8. 309. 22 Ioh. 1. 321. 18. He faith 324. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 333. 8. de gen ad Lit. 336. 17. de Sp. S. 30. it is 36. not whatsoeuer 337. 36. suppose 351. 3. euer 352. in the marg cont 3. in margine 353. 37. is the. FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE second booke Pa. 4. l. 2. to 7. 19. disorder 22. 9. euer 41. 12. to God 13. put out to 44. 33. to the. 49. 34. in the marg put out Allen. 37. where 103. 16. For. 114 8. Matthie 115. 1. thisplace 128. 23. the. 138. 2. expound 158. 6. grounded 173. 30. at hand 177. 24. strong ones 184. 2. by himselfe or by his saints and therefore remission ofsinnes by himselfe 186. 15. saide 201. 35. of mutuall offence 212. 5. but from 222. 1. as 〈◊〉 35. eordes 251. 36 Christes 311. 2. demurre 314. 3. that 〈◊〉 ters 17. Monkes 324. 28. delegaui 325. 33. put out 〈◊〉 334. 14. both 341. 1. halfe 35. deemed 342. 26. no 〈◊〉 345. 13. consortatiues 346. 33. false 350. 29. to the. 366. 27. 〈◊〉 30. I. 369 28. prostant 398. 15. mony 483. 30. put out not 521. 34 the marg 1. Ioh. 5. 529 2. and figures In the answere to Prarine p. put out the note in the marg TO THE READER AGainst this Popish and trayterous defense of the proude Censures giuen vpon Master Charkes and M. Hanmers bookes there hath bene alreadie set forth an answere conteining a maintenaunce of the creditte of those excellent Ministers and Elders of Gods Church which this malitious slaunderer hath sought to deface for staie of the simple reader till Master Charkes booke come forth There hath also bene printed and set forth by Doctor Fulke a briefe confutation of sundrie cauills and quarrel vttered by diuerse Papists against his writinges and speciallie by this Censurer in this his booke of defense whereby some parte of his vnhonest dealing is displayed to the discredite of this defender and to the shame of all Papists Neuerthelesse vnderstanding that Master Charke is not minded 〈◊〉 set forth his answere although he haue it 〈◊〉 written before this defender hath 〈◊〉 his wholl booke as he promiseth I haue thought it not amisse to write a shorte treatis for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the matters of doctrine especially which are in controuersie betweene M. Charke and the Censurer either omitting or but breiflie touching the points handled more at large in the two 〈◊〉 books Neither do I thinke M. Charkes staying to be misliked for diuerse causes First to auoyd confusion which might ensue if the defender should replic vpon his answere to the first parte before the confutation of the second parte were finished published Secondlie to auoyd misunderstanding for that diuerse pointes touched in the first parte may be more at large and otherwise handled in the latter parte vpon vew whereof Master Charke would change his answere And last of all lest replying and reioyning vpon the first parte might be occasion that the latter parte should neuer be handled For which reasons and some other perhaps better knowne vnto him-selfe indifferent readers may gather that it is expedient for him to staie vntill he see the wholl charge of the aduersarie and then more orderly and seasonablie he may publish his answere altogeather But now to the purpose taken inhande Three tall fellowes step forth vpon this bulwarke of defense the Corrector of the printe the setter forth of the booke and the graunde Captaine defender himselfe The Corrector commeth forth with his parte to stoppe a gappe or emptie place of a page with the reall 〈◊〉 of a nowne Heretike and that presuming as he 〈◊〉 without the authors knowledge to wise a man belike to be made priuie of such gramaticall trifles But whereas he weeneth that by reading his authors treatise a man shall see the moste points verified in Master Charke and his companions he is fouly beguiled For there is no wise man but seeth all the pointes of his newlie deuised declension throughly verified in his author and his Complices who hath shewed himselfe to be not in one but in all cases a proude maleperte Lyar and an obstinate seditious Atheist 〈◊〉 hereunto an impudent heretike and a malitious traytor And if any man be so simple that he cannot yet perfectlie be holde all these pointes in his owne treatise yet in the answeres and confutations thereof he that will not acknowledge them to be verified in him is like to proue a nowne of the same declension with him Thus the Owlie Corrector hauing shotte his bolte out of the bulwarke which by euil happe of a contrarie winde is caried backe against him selfe and his owne freinds retireth into a corner and doth no more appeare sauing that some notes of his negligence here and there bewraying him do declare that this was not the first time that he was ouerseene in his life that he should haue done his Master better seruise if he had imploied the time he spent in deuising this grammatication in being occupied more diligentlie about his office of Correction The setter forth of this booke hath the next place who writing an epistle to Master Charke minister as he termeth him and as he is indeede of the Church of god in England vnder colour of expostulation of some particuler matters concerning the person of M. Charke taketh occasion to be a setter forth not onelie of a seditious slaunderous booke against the Church but also of moste spitefull accusations against the prince and Magistrates of the realme a sin the particuler vew of this epistle shall moste manifestlie appeare First therefore he excuseth the long delaie of setting forth this defense of the Censure which hath beene deferred more moneths then the Censure was daies in writing vpon such cause as is easie to iudge and speciallie to Master Charke which for the moste parte is priuie to the same The meaning is that the author is so quicke a dispatcher of his matters partely by meanes of the weakenes of our cause partelie by singuler dexteritie of his owne wit and learning that hauing finished his Censure in eight or nine daies space at the moste he coulde also in like proportionable time haue
besides his shamefull ignoraunce in the learned tongues which he sought most rediculoussie to couer and hide there appeared in him to all indifferent mens iudgements no more then is writen of Catiline the Romane whome he followed as well in practize as he resembled him in qualities Loquentiae multum sapientiae parum many words little wisdome impudent loquacity smale learning lesse iudgement But when it came to the hearing of the worlde sayth the setter forth how courteouslie you had vsed this learned man with torments The world here signifieth the secretrable of trayterous papists which giue themselues to no thing more then either to heare or inuent most impudent lies against religion al mainteyners professors of the same For to omitte the common phrase of this epistle wherewith all thinges that are done against the papists are imputed to M. Charke whom al reasonable men knowe to be one of the moste that may doe lest in these cases who is so farre from all sense or vnderstanding if he know what racking meaneth to beleeue that Campian endured such torments of racking whereof no signe could appeare in any part of his body either before the conference or after whereby he should be lesse hable to dispute as may be prooued by many hundred witnesses yet the glorious foole partly to boast of his sufferings partly to excuse his impatience and pusillanimity which for feare rather then feeling of the racke had discouered many of his friendes complices with his owne hand writting immediately after his racking was not ashamed on the day of the first conference to complayne of his grieuous torments vntil by testimony of Master Lieuetenant of the Tower and others that were present his impudencie was so restrained for that time that he thought it not best to bragge any more of his intollerable racking But in the conference say you he was handled without all indifferencie or law of reasoning How so I praie you The questiones were taken out of his owne booke in which he could not bevnprouided he had as great warning of them as any of his aduersaries he required no booke to furnish his memorie but it was prouided for him the opponents for the moste part dealt with him in lawfull syllogismes except when his owne lauish tongue discoursing against the lawe of reasoning enforced other manner of communication he was neither threatned nor reuiled though he gaue great occasion by his insolent speach gesture He was pressed with no authority but the booke was shewed him what other indifferencie or lawe of reasoning would you require But it is no maruell though you dare be bolde to quarrell at his handling in the conference when you are not ashamed to speake so impudently of his open trial and condemnation saying Finally you made him away by cruel death without any shew or shadow of particu lar crime committed by him against Prince or countrey This were more then barbarous immanitie if it were true but being false what is it but a most heynous and sedi tious slaunder whether you consider the matter or the persons against whome it is vttered Let vs begin with the persons Who made Campian away not M. Charke I am sure for all men would laugh at you if you so should say for immediatlie after you distinguish him from that action saying and that your selfe Master Charke followed him in person Then whoe can be vnderstoode to haue made him away by cruell death but they by whose authoritie in whose highe Courte by whose order he was brought to triall by whome euidence verdite and sentence was giuen and execution commaunded Now let vs waigh the matter was he not in dighted arraigned found guiltie atteinted iudg ed according to the ordinarie accustomable manner alwaies vsed in the case of hie rreason according to the lawes of the realme had he not leaue to answere for him selfe to challenge the Iurie or to vse any other plea that is permitted and allowed in such cases was there noe shewe or shadowe of particuler crime conteined in the inditement or in the euidence The worlde knoweth it must needes be the recordes are yet to be seene But there was nothing prooued perhaps you will say though much was alledged against him he was slaundered by them that gaue euidence against him he neuer did beare a trayterous or vndutifull minde against the Prince or the state Well admit for Campians sake that the credit of sworne witnesses and the wholl processe of so honourable a state as is of this lande must stand in suspense and not prooue so much as any shew or shadow of treason committed by him yet what shall his owne confession subscribed with his hande testifie concerning his treasonable affection against her Maiestie shall it not confirme the testimonie of such as gaue euidence against him prooue him moste manifestly to be guiltie of high treason his owne confession taken the first of August 1581. subscribed with his hand remaineth to be seene in which after certaine moste trayterous sentences were shewed him out of the bookes of Saunders and Bristow concerning the Bull of Pope Pius by which he tooke vpon him by his Antichristian sentence to depriue her Maiestie of her regalitie and to discharge her subiects of all obedience and dutie towardes her highnes it followeth in these wordes Edmund Campian being demaunded whether he woulde acknowledge the publishing of these things before recited by Saunders Bristow Allen to be wicked in the wholl or in any parte and whether he doth at this present acknowledge her Maiestie to be a true and lawful Queene or a pretensed Queene and depriued and in possession of her Crowne onelie de facto he answereth To the first that he medleth neither to nor fro and will not further answere but requireth that they may answere To the second he saith that this question dependeth vpon the fact of Pius Quintus whereof he is not to iudge and therefore refuseth further to answere Edmund Campian Answered and subscribed in the presence of Owin Hopton Iohn Hammonde Robert Beale Thomas Norton Here except you will say that it is no treason in a naturall borne subiect of this lande though he refuse to acknowledge the Queenes Maiestie to be a true and lawfull Queene and in possession of her Crowne de Iure and though he will not in one worde disalow them that speake write practize against her right her Crowne and dignitie and seeke by all meanes they can to depose and disposesse her of the same there was neuer traytor more clearlie discouered by the testimonie of others then Campian is displayed by his owne confession I neede not here note the faculties graunted by the present Pope Gregorie the 13. to Campian and his fellowe traytor Parsons which were taken about one of their complices immediatelie after Campians death in which they desire of the Pope the explication or meaning of the Bull of Pius Quintus giuen
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
Iesuites in discredit whose infections are well knowne abroade and are now entred to worke treason in the land Also because he graunteth the speaches which in all hatred of Popish practizes so directlie attempted against the maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome he vttered in diuerse places of his answere But if you had not omitted the reasons which he setteth downe of his acknowledging and graunting of those vehement speaches they had beene sufficient in any reasonable mans opinion to discharge him out of that crime of rayling For you your selfe confesse afterward that euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not to be taken for rayling Now Master Charke standeth to the defence of his booke to be Christian and Catholike and him-felfe to be a true member and Minister of the Catholike Church of Christ and for occasion of matter he alledgeth the infections of the Iesuites well knowne abroad and their late entrie to worke treason in the land Also those Popish practises against which he vttered those speaches to be directlie attempted against the Maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome so that such sharpe speaches and yet but sparinglie vttered in comparison of so many reproches as you haue belched out against him and our religion are not to be charged with the preiudice of rayling neither in regard of the person whoe did vse them or of the matter that did occasion them At the least wise vntill you had disprooued him to be a Catholike or discharged your Iesuites of the crimes of heresie and treason intended against them neither doth he with slaunder deuised against their persons as the manner of the Papists is seeke to discreditte their doctrine but in detestation of their false doctrine attribute such termes vnto the men as for their doctrines sake they deserue But you are gratious to graunt him pardon for that he confesseth hatred to haue beene the cause as though hatred not of the persons whome he wisheth to repent vnto saluation but of the practizes which he knoweth to be against God and the peace of the realme may not be a iust cause of more vehement inuectiues then he hath anie expressed And yet you see not how any learned or common honest man and much lesse a preacher can iustifie such vnciuill and outragious termes against his brother by any pretence of Christianlike or tollerable hatred I will not say how mány foule re proches be included in this one sentence taking it according to your meaning for I will graunt that you saie to be true if it may be vnderstoode of him that is a brother in deede But that Iesuites are brethren to Master Charke and such preachers as he is I thinke neither the Iesuites nor you your selfe if you be demaunded when you are awake will acknowledge Therefore being such as M. Charke had before described them by their infections treasons practizes against God and the realme he was not to imbrace them as bretheren but to detest them as heretikes and traytors The turning backe of the crime of railyng which he vseth vnto you was not for any excuse of the crime committed by him selfe for he doth not at all excuse but iustifie defend those speaches which you cal railing as fit words against the wicked Monkish fryers or fryerlie Monks affirming that if he were disposed to place your ordinary and extraordinary rayling in a ranke he might gather of your reproches more then can come into ten leaues but this you saie is neither to the purpose nor trewe not to the purpose because you were prouoked by his example and iniurie who began without example He might answere you that he began not with you but you with him neither did he prouoke you by any priuate iniurie but if you count the cause of the Iesuites to pertaine vnto you as a publike iniurie then iudge in differentlie whether the heresies and treasons of the Iesuites doe not minister iust cause to him of his hatred and bitter speaches against them But that he could gather ten leaues of your rayling you say it is a licentious lie For as Printers count leaues that is wholl sheetes there are but halfe ten in your booke and albeit they be counted as they are folded yet ten leaues are a greater part thereof then can be filled with rayling termes onelie So you saie and seeme to saie somewhat to your purpose but Master Charke hauing tolde you before vnto which your silence may stand for a confession that almost euerie line soundeth loud with some foull reproch who cannot see that it were easie to gather almost out of euerie line so many foull reproches as would fill more then ten of your folded leaues For of Printers large count no reasonable man would vnderstand him except you would allow him also to make as large letters and as fewe lines as Printers sometimes vse to doe in such large leaues of their account But this matter you may not so soone passe ouer for that you thinke it of importance to descrie she spirites of vs that are aduersaries in this case Rayling in deed is a fault in whomsoeuer it be found but it had beene requisite that you had first defined what is rayling that we might haue agreed vpon the matter in question You tell vs afterward what is not rayling namelie euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not railing nor the thing in question for both Christ his Apostles and many holy fathers aster them vsed the same sometimes vpon inst zeale especially against heretiks So that vntilyou haue prooued Protestants to be noe true Catholikes discharged papists from being heretikes euerie hotte worde in our bookes vttered against Papistes can not iustlie be accompted railing Naie if Catholikes by heate of zeale in a iust cause or in a case that they thinke to be iust be caried somtimes in vehemencie of speech beyond the bandes of modestie as they maie be iustlie reprooued therefore so they maie not straightwaie be condemned for heresie in so doing Iames and Iohn were so farre deceiued with zeale and in a cause that they thought to be cleare and iust that they would haue praied that fire might come downe from heauen by example of Helias and destroy the Samaritanes that resused to receiue their master Christ and were otherwise heretikes for which they weere reprooued but yet as they which knew not or had forgotten of what spirit they were yet not by and by reiected for heretikes The contention was sharpe betweene Paull and Barnabas and there was a fault betweene them yet both holie Apostles Saint Ierome is misliked of manie for immoderat vehemencie of speech against Rusfinus as good a Catholike as him-selfe yea he is not to be excused in heat against Saint Augustine Vigilantius and Iouinian he handleth more hardlie in termes then the cause of either of them did deserue although the one were in
though you had not done him iniury enough alreadie you adde that in an other place he sayeth that if a man haue ten wiues or more fledde from him vppon like causes he may take more and so may wiues doe the like in husbandes Whereupon Alberus one of your owne religion noteth that Iohannes Leidensis tooke many wiues and one Knipperdolling tooke thirteene for his parte so that this doctrine was not onelie taught but also practized vpon Luthers authority I wil here like wiseset down the whol discourse of Luther in the place by you quoted Exegesi ad c. 7. ep 1. ad Cor. that the world may see whether there be a sparke of honestie or shamefastnes in Papists that make such impudent reports which may so easilie be disprooued For that which Luther speaketh of ten wiues fled from him is in a farre other cause then the cause of impotencie and nothing in the world fauoureth the pluralitie of wiues practized by the Anapabtistes whatsoeuer Alberus or any other hath written of whome there is iust cause to dout what he bath written because you are so false almost in all your reports of writers of our side As for the Anapabtistes it is certaine they practised not their polygamie vpon Luthers authoritie whome they did vtterlie abhoore and in open printed books accounted him for a notable false teacher Againe it is not like that Alberus beeing a Lutherane would father so grosse a lie vpon Luthers authoritie But let the reader marke what Luther writeth vppon these wordes of the text but if the vnfaithful depart let him departe a brother or sister is not in bondage subiect to such Hoc loci Paulus saith he fidelem coniugatum sententiam pro illo ferendo liberat vbi infidelis compar discesserit aut concedere non vult vt Christum sequatur eique copiare facit iterum cum alio matrimonium contrahendi Quòd verò hic diuus Paulus de Ethnico compare dicit idem de falso Christiano intelligendum est vs si alter coniugum alterum ad impietatem adigeret necilli permitteret Christum vita imitari tum liber hic sit solutus vt quicum libuerit se despondeat Quòd si hoc Christiano iure non liceret cogeretur fidelis infidelem suam comparem sequi vel inuitus repugnante natura viribus suis caelebs permanere magno cum animae suae periculo Id ipsum D. Paulus his denegat inquiens Quòd si eiusmodi frater aut soror seruituti non sit obnoxius neque captus neque venundatus sit ac si dicat in aliis causis vbiconiuges vnâ commorantur vt in debita coniugij beneuolentia id genus similibus alter alteri obligatus est nec sui 〈◊〉 est In 〈◊〉 vbi alter alterum ad impiam vitam cogit vel ab altero discedit ibiverò non est captiuus neque 〈◊〉 isti adhaerere porrò Quòd si captiuus non tenetur liberatus manumissus 〈◊〉 despondere se alters potest velutisi matrimonio coniuncius sibimortem oppetiissit Quid si 〈◊〉 coniugium non opportunè cederes vt alter alterum maritus vxorem vel è contra gentium in morem adeoque impiè viuere cogeret vel si alter ab altero fugeret donec tertium 〈◊〉 quartum coniugium attingeretur dareturne viro toties 〈◊〉 ducere quoties alia eiusmodi vt iam dictum est esset vt decem velplures 〈◊〉 viuentes transfugas haberet Et rursum licebitne vxori dectm aut plures qui iam omnes 〈◊〉 esse maritos Responsio D. Paulo non possumus obstruere os neque cumillo 〈◊〉 eius doctrina quoties necessum fuerit vti volunt verba eius aperta sunt Fratrem aut sororem liberos esse a coniugij lege si alter discesserit vel cum hoc habitare non consenserit Neque vt semeltantùm stat hoc dicit sed liberum relinquit vt quottes res postularit vel pergat vel consistat Neminem enim incontinentiae discrimine couictum vult vt eo captus teneatur alienae temeritatis malitiae causa In this place Paul setteth at libertie the faithfull maried person geuing sentence one his side where the vnfaithfull match shall departe or will not graunt that the other may follow Christ and giueth him leaue to contracte matrimony with another And that Saint Paul here sayeth of a heathen yokefellow the same is to be vnderstood of a false Christian that if any of the maryed persons would compell this other to impietie and not permit to follow Christ in life then is the party free to match in maryage with whome he listeth Which thing if it were not lawfull by Christian right the faithfll man should be compelled to followe his vnfaithfullmate or els against his wil his nature and strength repugning to remaine vnmaried with great daunger of his soule But that Saint Paull here denieth saying in such a brother or a sister is not subiect to bondage nor captiue nor solde as a slaue as if he said in other causes where man and wife dwell together as in the due beneuolence of mariage and such like cases the one is bound to the other and is not at libertie But in such where the one compelleth the other to impietie or departeth awaie there the other is not captiue nor compelled to cleaue to this person anie longer And if he be not holden as a captiue he is set at libertie and made free he may betroth himselfe to an other as if the other party that was ioyned in matrimonie to him were dead But what if the second mariage fall not outrightly that the one would compell the other the husband the wife or contrariwise to liue after the manner of the Gentiles and that impiouslie or if the one fledde from the other vntill the third or forth mariage were come vnto should the husband haue license so often to mary a new wife as the other is such a one as we haue said alreadie so that he should haue tenne or more wiues 〈◊〉 awaie from him yet liuing And againe shall it be lawfull for the wife to haue tenne or more husbands which are all come awaie from hit The answer We cannot stoppe Saint Paules mouth nor wrestle against him they that will vse his doctrine his words are plaine that a brother or a sister are free from the lawe of wedlock if the one depart or do not consent to dwell with the other Neither doth he say that this may be done once onelie but leaueth it free that as often as the case shall require he may 〈◊〉 proceede or stay For he will haue none to be cast into the daunger of incontinencie that he should be holden in 〈◊〉 thereby through cause of the rashnes or malice of another By this long discourse of Luthers own words let the reasonable reader iudge what occasion the Anabaptistes might iustlie take to defend their beastlie keeping of
marrie The third doctrine touching the necessitie of a wife to euerieman to be as great as the necessitie of eating drinking or sleepeing which importeth that he maie not welmisse her 24. houres together you maruaile Master Charke was not ashamed to maintaine But neither Luther nor Charke do maintaine it necessarie for euerie man to haue a wife but onelie for them that haue not the gift of continencie which cannot auoide sinne without mariage as the text of the Apostle is manifest Where you inferre that then he maie not well misse her 24. houres together it is a fond conclusion For the like necessitie of thinges bindeth not to the like often vse of the same thinges As if I should saie meate and drinke is as necessarie for the life of man as breathing it followeth not that a man must eate and drinke euerie moment because he must breath euerie moment Correction we saie commonlie is as necessarie for children as meat and drinke and yet I trow it followeth not that children must of necessity be beaten once in 24. hours Letting of blood or sweating for some bodies is as necessarie as sleepe therefore must they be lette blood and sweate allwaies once in 24. houres But you maruaile especiallie if that sentence of Luthers be added to the former serm De matrim Verum est profectò it is true verilie that he must needes be a baud that flieth matrimonie seeing God hath created man woman for copulation and 〈◊〉 sake This you saie is a wise reason of a 〈◊〉 Apostata for euerie man must either couple and marie by this or be a baude But in trueth we maie saie this is a slaunderous conclusion of an impudent lier For Luther in the place quoted speaketh against them that differ and flie mariage that they might liue more licentiouslie in whoredome as his wordes going before are plaine Plerique ideo matrimonium differunt fugiunt quòd primùm satis ad tempus aliquod vsque scortari velint suamque explere voluptatem 〈◊〉 vbi saturi fuerint honestatise item dedere sed bonae verba quaeso c. Manie do therefore differ and flie mariage because they will first for a certaine time committe whordome inough and take their pleasure to the full afterward when they are glutted they will giue them-selues to honestie also but suft I praie you c. and so proceedeth to inueigh against such purposes and at length commeth to these wordes cited by our defender and other that follow Verum profectò est eum lenonem esse oportere quimatrimonium fugiat quî aliter eueniret posteaquam marem foeminam commixtionis multiplicationis causa condidit At quare scortatio matrimonij statu non anteuertitur Nam vbi praecipua gratia non excipiat necessum est naturam feruere multiplicaeri Si â—d in matrimonio non contingat vbi aliâs quà m in fornicatione aut peioribus peccatis accideret It is true in deed that he must needes be a baude which flieth matrimonie And how can it be otherwise seing he hath created man and woman for copulation and multiplications sake But whie is not whordome preuented by the state of mariage For where speciall grace doth not except a man nature must needes boile and be multiplied if that happen not in mariage where should it happen els but in fornication or worse sinnes Yea the saying which I cited in answer to the next point before doth follow necideo coelibatum c. neither doe I reiect continencie or virgininitie let euerie man vse his gift as he hath receiued it of God All which I suppose is manifest to declare that Luther compted not all men baudes that liued vnmaried but those onelie that had not the gift of continencie and which by flying holie mariage fall into greeuous sinnes of fornication and vncleannes The last Doctrine that al Chrstians are as holie as iust as the mother of god as the Apostles were if it be vnderstood as Luther meaneth containeth no absurditie neither is it any badge of intollerable pride For Luther meaneth of the holines iustice of Christ communicated vnto vs by which we are made holy iust as Christ is made equallie to al Christians iustice and holienes not of the effects of this grace which worketh inequallity of holines righteousnes as the image of God is more or lesse restored in euerie one And this his words declare Quia verò renati sumus filij atque haeredes Dei pari sumus in dignitate honore D. Paulo Petro. S. deiparae virgini ac diuis omnibus Habemus enim eundem the saurum à Deo bonaque omnia tam largiter quà m ipsi Siquidem ipsosnon secus atque nos renasci oportuit quare non plus habent quà m quilibet reliqui Christiani Because we are borne againe the sonnes and heires of God we are equall in dignitie and honour to Saint Paul Saint Peter to the virgine mother of God and to all the Saints For we haue the same treasure of God and all good thinges as largelie as they For that was necessarie for them also no lesse then vs to be borne againe Therefore they haue no more then all other Christians By these wordes it is euident that Luther maketh this equallitie in the grace of regeneration the common effects thereof not in the speciall gifts that follow according to the seueral measure of grace that God giueth to euerie one and therefore it is out of season to dispute here of the degrees of rewardes or the excellencie of Gods giftes in some more then other no nor of the merit of good works except you wil saie that the grace of regeneration is giuen according to merit Although the terme of merit vsed often times in the Fathers which you doe gladlie vsurpe signifieth not the desert of good workes as the Papists take it but the praise commendation or honor of vertue and sometimes vertue and good deedes themselues Finallie to compare with the Apostles and the virgine Marie in holines and righteousnes of life it is neither the meaning of Luther nor of the Ministers of England but to acknowledge that we haue receiued the like pretious faith in the righteousnes of our God and Sauiour Iesus Christ by which we are made holy righteous in him Saint Peter will warrant vs. 2. Pet. 1. For the ligittimation of Dyonise falselie surnamed the Areopagite you would faine bring the authoritie of generall Councelles but your note booke deceiued you For you quote Concil Const. Act. 4. can 2. both 〈◊〉 your page and in your correction but in deede 〈◊〉 which is saide of him is in Concil Constantinopol 6. 〈◊〉 vndecima Which was holden almoste 700. yeares after Christ where oue Sophronius Patriarch of 〈◊〉 writing to the Councell maketh mention Dionysius the Areopagite and his writtings as he supposed not counterfeit But where lay the bookes of Dionyse for 600.
to be one But whie doe you flie from the authority of your vulgare latine interpreter which in both places maketh the prohibition of concupiscence one commaundement in Exod. by adding the copulatiue which is not in the Hebrew but a pure negatiue Non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis 〈◊〉 eius c. Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours house neither shalt thou desire his wife c. In Deut. by leauing out the verbe which is in the Hebrew Non concupisces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non domum non agrum non seruum non accillam non bouem non asinum vniuersa 〈◊〉 illius sunt Thou shalt not couet thy neighbours wife not his house not his field not his seruant not his maide not his oxe not his asse and whatsoeuer thinges are his By this translation your interpreter sheweth plainlie that he acknowledged but one commaundement against concupiscence although the sinne were set foorth in diuerse wordes And it is as great reason to make a seuerall commaundement for euerie worde that followeth as to make the concupiscence of the house one and of the wife another But you doe better to acknowledge the matter doubtfull as beeing no matter of faith and not defined by your Church because of the authority of so many aun cient fathers against you yet you haue no colour to shift of your Idolatrous woshipping of Images except you confounde the two first commaundements in one neither can you exclude the commaundement against concupiscence without consent except you deuide the tenth commaundement into two reteining the distinction that ought to be of euerie precept from other and making the law perfect which prohibiteth all sinne as I haue shewed before But it is a greater slaunder I weene that the Protestantes charge you to leaue out the second commaundement against Images where you doe but include it in the first As though you haue not in your English primers other bookes where you set forth the tenne commaundements altogether left out that precept as ten thousand bookes wil testify against you And as for your including is but a crafty hiding of it from the common people lest they should learne to detest your grosie Idolatrie and forsake your malignant Church as the mother of all abhominations against God and his true worship Your distinction of mentall adulterie from actuall adulterie and of mental theft from actual theft to make foure commaundements of two is grosse vnlearned For why should not mental murther mental disobedience or rebellion mentall slaunder or lying require enerie one a seueral commaundement distinct from actual murther actuall rebellion disobedience or treason actuall slaundering or lying And so in the wholl we should haue thirteene commaundements at the least Or els Master Charke hath truelie charged you to make the seuerall breaches of two diuerse commaundements but one sinne and the breach of one commaundement to make two seuerall kindes of sinne as you doe in the breaches of the commaundements against adulterie and theft Where our sauiour Christ saith expresselie that the looking on a woman with desire of lust is adulterie which he should rather haue saide according to your where is forbidden in the seauenth commaundement distinction it is sinne against the ninth commaundement which you saie is against mentall adulterie And so he should haue saide no more in effect but mentall adulterie is mental adulterie But our Sauiour Christ referring that sinne to the commaundement against adulterie sheweth that concupiscence without consent is an other sinne and not onelie in an other degree of the same kinde as mentall and actuall adulterie are and as anger racha thou foole are against the sixt commaundement The last reason of the censure to prooue that the first motions to lust are not forbidden is because they are not in our power where the scripture saith This comaundement which I giue the this daie is not aboue thee Master Chark replieth that the assumption of this argument which is to resist the first motions is not in our power is false You rehearse his wordes thus Our first motions are not altogether out of our power for that the gift of continencie doth more and more subdue them Here you cauill that albeit good men do cut of infinite occasions and causes of motions and temptations yet can they neuer subdue all motions But Master Charke said It is neither true that all these first motions are altogether out of our power c. neither doth it follow that we are not subiect to the lawe for such offences as we can not resist the fault being ours through corruption whie we can not resist them So that in the first part of this saying he confesseth some motions to be out of our power to resist some not out of our power which you also acknowledge and therefore your assumption if it be general is false if it be particuler the conclusion cannot be generall that to resist all the first motions of lustes is not commaunded orthus the law forbiddeth no first motions To the second parte of Master Charkes saying you answer nothing that is of the consequence of your assumption namelie that the fault being ours through corruption and such as our first father did willinglie bring vpon him and vs all our wante of power to resist offences can not exempt vs from the iustice of God This was so strong that you had not so much as a cauil against it But as though you saw it not you runne by into your vsuall path of girding our Ministers who you saie talke of continencie and mortification ech one hauing his yoke mate readie for his turne as good fellows do of fasting that sit at a full table And yet I think it is more praise to keepe temperance at a full table then to abstaine where there is hunger and nothing to eate But I pray you sir doth continencie and mortification belong onelie to vnmarried men You are as good to saie that no maried man can be a true christian seing mortification is necessarie for all Christians and continencie also not from the vndefiled bedde but chastitie from all vncleannes is commaunded generallie to all true members of Christ How the wiueles votaries in poperie performe continencie and mortification but euen of that one earthly member of vncleanes the world is to full of examples and the iustice of god will one daie make manifest To the place of Moses Master Chark saith the translation is false and corrupt which saith the commaundement is not aboue thee where Moses saith it is not hidden from thee And that the place is so to be translated and to be applied to the reuelation of the Gospel it is euidentlie declared by the plaine text and by the application thereofin the epistle to the Romanes cap. 10. 6. To this you answer that he prooueth it neitherby the words of text nor by Saint Pauls application O wretched shift when he quoteth the Chapter and verse where the
necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
in stead of which word properlie you craftelie conueigh in the worde truelie so your wholl syllogisme is a paralogisme and may lawfully be denied Notwithstanding your conclusion as it is we do graunt that the Apostles do rightlie and truely remit sinnes by their ministery in the holie ghost but as it should be inferred vpon your premises we denie it which cannot be gathered but vpon a false Maior Whatsoeuer the holie ghost may doe properlie in remitting sinnes the Apostles may do by ministerie as properlie As for the comfort of mans life taken away by denying sinnes to be properlie forgiuen by Priestes is a fond cauill and meere slaunder For we acknowledge it a singular comfort of mans life that God hath appointed men by their ministerie to assure vs of his fauour and reconciliation in the remission of oursins And we beleeue with Saint Augustine that sinnes are forgiuen in Gods Church vpon earth acknowledgeing the bountefullnes of God in so mightie a worke anathematizing and detesting the Nouatians and all other heretikes that obstinatelie and willfullie mainteine the contrarie The power to remit sinnes is further prooued to be giuen to the Apostles by these wordes of Christ Whose sinnes you do forgiue c. by the Doctors exposition of the same and by conference of other wordes of scripture of the like sense THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN HOw the priestes of Christes Church haue defended this right and calling for remission of sinnes as wel by the commission that Christ first receiued of his father and afterward bestowed vpon them as by the assured receiuing of the spi rit of god from Christes blessed breath to the same and purpose I haue hitherto declared at large Now the third part of the place before alledged out of S. Iohns gospel concerneth the words of Christes promis and warrant made vnto his Apostles out of which wordes distinctly vttered we must see what force may be further added vnto our Catholike assertion for the pristes autho rity to remit and retaine sinnes And surely if none of the former wordes of commission nor any other mean or mention had beene made of the holy ghostes assistaunce herein these onlie woordes vpon the credit that faithful men owe to Christ had bin sufficient to haue assured the world of the authoritie of priesthood of the wholl cause that now is called in controuersie For what can be said either of god or man more properlie or more playnlie then this whose sinnes you shal forgiue they be forgiuen whose sinnes you shal retaine they be retained I must needes heree complaine of these vnfaithful and vnhappie times that in the continuall lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the booke of the Bible in endlesse contention and disputation of most high mysteries in them contained haue wholie conuerted the cleerest and onely vndoubted meaning of such places specially as moste touch the verie life and saluation of all mankinde and which be of all other thinges in termes of scripture most open and euident sull foolishlie and vnlearnedlie haue both the simple sort handled Gods word as in such grosse ignorance of al thinges they needes must and their new procured Masters also in not much more knowledge and farre passing pride can not otherwise do but whilest they plaie them selues in things of smaler importance they are to be laughed at rather then lamented but if the deuil driue them farther as he lightlie doth wherere he se quietlie possesseth and cause them to dallie and delude the places of scripture that principally concerne the state and saluation of vs al then we must with al force resist lest we leese the fruite and good of our Christianitie What can be of higher importance in the world or touch our soules and saluation so neere as the holie sacraments of Christ Church by which grace and mercy through gods appointment be procured yet these blessed fountains especiallie euen these waters springing euerlastingly to our life and comfort haue these men most infected FVLKE You fare as though we denied all power of remitting or retaining of sinnes whereas we do moste gladlie imbrace all such power as Christ hath giuen vs which we must so take as it be not dishonourable to the godhead that man should exercise that which is proper to God him-selfe The power therefore we graunt but what manner of power this is we must inquire whether an absolute power for priests at their pleasure as you speake afterward in this Chapter to forgiue sinnes properlie or a power to declare the same to be forgiuen according to the pleasure of God to them that repent and beleeue the Gospell and also whether this power is to be exercised by preaching the Ghospel or by auricular confession You spend manie words therefore in vaine to prooue the power and authoritie whereof we stand in no controuersie with you but what manner of power this is and by what meanes it is to be exercised As for the lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the bookes of the Bible doe argue that you complaine of sauoreth not of the spirit of Christ which willeth the scriptures to be searched as those which beare witnes of him To glory in the truth of Gods word contained in his holie scriptures is no vaine bragging but such as Christians ought moste of all to delight in The rest of your railing I passe ouer as vnworthie anie answere when whatsoeuer you prate in generall shal be founde false in speciall when you come to prooue the particulers ALLEN In the institution of Sacraments Christs wordes were euer plaine without colour or figure as wordes that worke with singular efficacie grace and vertue and therewith giue to the ministers iust authoritie for the execution of Christes meaning which could not be done in figuratiue speaches and parables without infinit error Did God speake parables when he instituted the solemnitie of so manie sacrifices in the olde lawe when he signified vnto Moses and Aaron euerie seuerall sorte of beast or creature with their sexe kind all the ceremonie thereunto belonging Did he speake parables when the sacrament of the lambe was to be instituted Did he speake by figure to Abraham when he commaunded him to circumcise the male of euerie of his people Did he speake by figure when he instituted the Sabbath Did he to be breefe euer in the olde lawe speake one thing and meane another when anie externall worke by the charge of his worde was to be practized for euer amongest the people In common speach in prophecying in preaching in similitudes in examples vttered for the declaration of manie thinges and for grace and varietie of talke to stirre vp mans industrie in searching the secretes of the trueth there figures of all sortes be vsed but where by externall wordes and actions force of inward grace must be procured or perpetuall vsages in the Church are
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
courage you shall cast him into the waues together with your selues Vnderstād what Christ saith of the Iewes Vpon the chaire of Moses the Scribes and Pharisies did sit do ye all things whatsoeuer they shall saie to you Now we must not saie the priestes are set vpon the chaire of Moses but vpon the chaire of Christ for they haue receiued his doctrine wherefore Paul saith we are embassadours for Chist as though Christ did exhore by vs Doe ye not se that all men are subiect to the Princes of the worlde and that often times the worse in birthe life and wisdome are preferred before the better Neuerthelesse men consider the reuerence of the Prince that hath preferred them not the persons whatsoeuer they be so that if man appoint one ouer vs there is so great feare if God haue appointed anie man we despise him 〈◊〉 on him and vexe him with innumerable contumelies and whereas we are forbidden to iudge our breethren we whet our tongues against the priests Of what excuse are these thinges worthie when we se not a beame in our owne eye and iudge so seuerelse a mote in our neighbours eye Doest thou not know that thou prescribest to thy selfe a more heauie iudgement when thou so iudgest another This I saie not that I allowe vnworthie persons to be taken into the priestes office but hauing compassion and weeping For they are not therefore to be iudged by their subiects although they liue euillie and vitiouslie But if thou looke well to thy selfe thou shalt not affend end in anie'thing that is committed to them For if he made an Asse to speake and gaue spirituall blessinges by a southsayer and wrought in a dumbe mouth and the vncleane tongue of Balaam for the stumbling Iewes much more for you that be faithfull although the priests be naught God shall persorme all thinges by them and send his holie spirite for a pure minde doeth not therefore loose his purenes but grace worketh all things for all are yours saith he whether it be Paule or Apollo or Cephas For whatsoeuer the priest goeth about it is the gift of God alone and when he exerciseth mans wisdome his grace appeereth lesse Neither doe I saie this that we might liue more slouthfullie but least while they that are set ouer you liue slouthfullie you that are committed to them should at anie time procure euill to your selues And what speak I of the Priest Neither an Angell nor an Archangell can bring anie thing to passe in those thinges which are giuen by God But the father the sonne and the holie ghost doeth all things The priest giueth his tongue and his handes for it is not iust that for malice of an other man they that come to our saluation should be offended All which thinges considered let vs both seare God and greatlie reuerence his priestes that honour being giuen both to our workes and to them we maie receiue great reward of God by the grace and goodnes of our Lorde Iesus Christ to whome with the father and the holie ghost be glorie for euer and euer Amen These wordes of Chrisostome declare that the ministration of the worde and of the sacraments in which the Priest lendeth his tongue and his handes are not defiled by the euill life of the Priest so he sit in the chaire of Christ preach the doctrine receiued by him confirming the same by the sacrament of his institution But of the popish sacrament of penance or auricular confession they speake nothing at all Contrariwise they shewe by what meanes the Priestes doe execute the authoritie graunted them in remission of sinnes namelie in the whole office of their ministerie consisting principallie in preaching and ministring the sacraments not in giuing priuate absolution onelie or principallie ALLEN But to leaue him and fall to other of great antiquitie and learning whose iudgements also will prooue not onelie for the trueth of his doctrine but also which is much more for the vniformitie of this open Ceremonie which the Church of olde vsed and therefore in the like trueth of thinges yet keepeth Theodoritus therefore a Greeke author also doth plainelie insinuate not onelie the whole sacrameut but euen this Ceremonie of laying on handes in the acte of absolution Sunt medicabilia saith he etiam quae post baptismum fiunt vulnera medicabilia autem non 〈◊〉 olim per solam fidem data remissione sed per multas lachrymas fletus iciunium orationem laborem facti peccati quantitate moderatum Quienim non sic affecti sunt eos nec admittere quidem didicimus nee diuina sunt manu impertienda Nolite inquit dare sanctum canibus nec margaritas porcis The woundes which are made euen after Baptisme be to be healed marie they cannot be remedied as before in Baptisme by remission obteyned by onelie faith but they must nowe be cured by teares and weeping by fasting and praying and by penance measured after the quantitie and nature of the fault For whosoeuer be not so qualified we haue not learned to receiue them to grace neither be the holie giftes to be bestowed vpon them by our hand Giue not saieth he holie thinges to dogges nor precious stones to swine Thus doth Theodoritus allude also to our manner yet vsed in the sacrament where remission is giuen by the priestes worde and hand For which cause Saint Aogustine calleth this sacrament of reconciliation sometimes Imposition of hands as he doth other sacraments moe also where the priests by this externall Ceremonie of laying on of handes vse to giue grace FVLKE Theodoret which liued so long after confession was abrogated by Nectarius in the Greeke Church speaketh nothing for it but that repentance muste best be testified by manie teares weeping fasting and praier and such like labour moderated according to the quantitie of the sinne committed otherwise they are not to be admitted into the Church nor to be made partakers of the holie communion So that he speaketh of them that for grieuous sinnes are excommunicated whoe are not to be receiued but vpon their hartie repentance nor the diuine mysteries to be deliuered vnto them Wherefore there is no allusion in his wordes vnto the popish manner of absolution with the worde and hande For he speaketh of admission and deliuerie with the hande Which must be vnderstoode of them that were excluded and debarred from receiuing which are accounted dogges and hogges For I hope you account not all sinners for dogges and hogges before they be shriuen if they be not by the sword of excommunication cut of from the Church But Saint Augustine as you saie calleth this your sacrament Imposition of handes If you meane the place De bapt contr Donatistas lib. quinto cap 20. Because there is no eight booke whereunto your margent sendeth vs he speaketh in deede of them on whome handes are laide which maie be them that are confirmed or ordained to the ministerie of the Church as
fourth booke of his ecclesiasticall historie of our Church FVLKE The decree of the Constantinopolitan councell in sense is the same with the former but not word for word nay almoste it hath neuer a word alike But it is to be vnderstood of publike penitentes to be bounde or loosed according to their qualitie of the offence the greatnes of their repentance The words are these It behoueth that they which haue receiued of god the power of loosing and binding consider the qualitie of the sinne and the readines of the sinner vnto returning that so they maie vse a medicine fit for the disease lest if they should determine of sinne without difference they should erre from the health of the sick person For the disease of sinne is not simple but diuerse and of manie formes and budding vp with manie hurtfull branches by which the euill is spred farre and wide and creepeth so farre vntill at length it withstandeth the vertue of that which healeth Therefore he that will shew what skill he hath in the spirituall art of healing must diligentlie search out how he that hath sinned is affected whether he incline vnto health or contrariwise by those manners to which he is familiarlie accustomed prouoke the diseased to looke against him and whether he by him-selfe obeyeth his Master or whether the sore of the minde doth encrease by medicins that are laid to it and so mercie is to be bestowed by equall measure For there is great regarde both with God and with the gouernour of this pastorall care to bring home the wandring sheepe and to heale it being wounded by the serpent and neither to thrust it downe by the hedlonges of desperation nor to loose the raines vnto dissolution of life and contempt but by all meanes as well by sharp medicines as by gentle to withstand and striue that the sore maie be healed that he which knoweth the fruites of repentance maie wiselie gouerne the man being called vnto that heauenlie glorie Therefore he ought to know both kindes of medicines as well them that be of rigor as them that be of pittie and not to follow them which haue taken in hand onelie the vpper face of figures that are deliuered as Saint Basill hath taught vs. In this Canon there is no worde of confession or whereby the necessitie of confession maie be inferred vpon all men for their secret offences Neither can it be prooued that the penitentiarie priest once abrogated by Nectarius was euer restored The schoolmes opinion we are no more bound to follow in this then in other pointes of poperie Saint Bernard alloweth in deede confession made vnto the Priests and ministers of God but the necessitie thereof he doth not laie as a clogge on mens consciences The like I saie of S. Bede who in the booke and Chapter by you quoted speaketh of one Adamanus a scot who hauing committed some great wickednes in his youth when he considered the greeuosnes of his fact was in great distrust of minde and comming to a priest of whome he hoped that the waie of saluation might be shewed vnto him he confessed his guiltines and desired him to giue him counsell how he might auoid the wrath of God that was to come After this manner to come to confession we denie not but it is most expedient for them that are not quiered in conscience but that al men are bound by this or any other example to make a perticuler rehersall of their sinnes to a priest before they can haue remission Beda neither here nor els where teacheth ALLEN Before him S. Gregorie so well liketh and knoweth this practize of sacramentall confession that in his Pastorll he prescribeth the Priests of Gods Ghurch manie waies how to seeke out the diseases of their peoples soules and according to the varietie of the same to admit or put backe to pardon or to punish yea so plaine he is in this matter that he chargeth the Priest to be exceeding grieuoslie punished that in anie case shall vtter the Penitentes confession or anie parte thereof Againe farre aboue these holy Leo the great amending the hard custome that in some places of Italie Campania was vsed touching publike confession of priuat sins he saieth Reatus conscientiarum sussiciat solis sacerdotib indicari confessione secreta Quamuis enim plenitudo fidei videtur esse laudabilis que propter Dei timorem apud homines eruhescere non veretur tamen quia non omnium huiusmodi suntpeccata vt velint in poenitentiam ed publicari remoueatur tam improbabilis cohsuetudo ne multi à poenitentiae remedijs arceantur dum aut erubescunt aut metuunt 〈◊〉 sais facta suareserare quibus possint legum constitutione per elli Sufficit enim illa confessio quae primùm Deo offertur tunc 〈◊〉 saccrdoti qui pro debitis confitentium precator accedit Tunc enim demum piures ad poenitentiam potuerunt prouocari si populi auribus non publicetur conscientia confitentis It is enough that the guilt offences of mans conscience be opened to the Priests alone in secret confession For though the foruour of faith be verie laudable which is content for Gods sake to be ashamed before men yet because the sinnes of euerie man be not such that the penitent would gladlie vtter openlie let so raprobale custome be abolished lest manie be holden from the remedies of penāce whiles either they are ashamed or feare to open their deedes to their enimes by whom they might by order of law be punished For that confession is sufficient which is made first to God and then to the Priest also who will be an intercessour for the sinnes of them that confesse For then might moe be prouoked to penance if the secret conscience of the confessed be not published to the eares of the people Thus saith Saint Leo a man of that time and credit as our aduersaries would wish Let them saie now that priuat confession began in the Lateran Councell because that thing which euer was counted and vsed as necessarie was there decreed for the amending of the peoples sloth to be done euerie yeare once at the lest before they receiued the blessed sacrament As truly maie they saie that the Euchariste and receiuing thereof was begune in the same Councell by the verie same Canon For as there is charge that euerie man should be confessed so there is commaundement giuen that euerie man shall receiue once a yeare the blessed Sacrament So litle care they haue what they saie so that they saie enough to beguile them that can skil of nothing FVLKE Yf Saint Gregorie in his pastorall or els where had written any thing that might but make a face of the necessitie of auricular confession you would haue set downe some parte of his wordes or at least quoted the booke and Chapter where we might finde them but in trueth there is no such matter in all that worke conteining three
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
heard before out of his owne writinges Neither doth Paulinus testifie anie other thing of him nor any other thing then might be said of Luther and Caluin whoe were no friendes of Papisticall confession For if anie man did confesse vnto them his offences that he might shew himselfe truelie penitent and receiue comfort and counsell for his amendment no doubt but those holie men were greatlie grieued at his fall which mooued the offendour to greater sorow for his sinne and yet those faultes as were discouered to them being such as might with duetie to God and the state be concealed they would neuer vtter to aniebodie What would this make to prooue that they saie on confessions like popish Priestes and required all men vnder paine of damnation to confesse vnto them their secret deadlie sinnes as pop sh Priests doe But popish prelates disdaine to doe that which they faine Saint Ambrose to haue done Manie of them being such for their knoweledge as you might rather seeke water out of a pumise stone then the doctrine of comfort out of their mouthes and for their liues and conuersations such as deserue if there were anie hope of amendment in them to stand in the Church among open penitents rather than to sit in the chaires of gouernment and iudgement ouer other men Wherefore by this citation we neither see the iudgement of Paulinus nor of saint Ambrose for your matter of the necessitie of auricular confession For that secret confession maie be made in some case we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made of all deadlie sinnes that man can remember you haue not yet prooued ALLEN But to go forward Saint Cyprians meaning is so plaine for confession of sinnnes that he prescribeth the verie thoughtes of man that be sinnefull and damnable to be vttered vnto the Priestes praising them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing idolatrie hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes Dei dolenter simpliciter confitebantur did simplie and sorowfullie make confession thereof to the Priests of God And now that we are for the practise and proofe hereof at S. Cyprian which is high in Gods Church we neede not staie here though we be farre enough paste our aduersaries account in such cases that laie it downe at I ateran Councell a whole thousand yeares shorte of those daies I will not much speak of Tertullian whome Saint Cyprian calleth Master his wholl booke writen of penance doth make altogether for this sacrament and for confession to be made to Gods Priestes which he calleth exomologesin prosternendi atque humiliandi hominis disciplinam and amongst other things pertaining to the act of confession and penance which then was much more publike and seuere then it is now he reckeneth this to be one Presbiteris aduolui to be humblie laid at the Priests fecte where he also resembleth a man that is lothe to confesse his inwarde faultes to him that hauing a filthie botch in the secret partes of his bodie had rather let it 〈◊〉 vp the member then for foolish shamefastnes vtter the griefe to his surgeane FVLKE You slaunder Saint Cyprian greatlie to make him be so plaine of your meaning that he perscribeth the verie thoughts of man that be sinneful and damnable to be vttered vnto the priests although he praise them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing Idolattie did sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the priests of God His wordes are these Denique quando fide maiore timore meliore sunt qui quamuis nullo sacrificij aut libelli facinore constricti quoniam tamen de hoc vel cogitauerūt hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes dei dolenter simpliciter 〈◊〉 exomologesin conscientiae faciunt animi sui pondus exponunt salutarem medelam paruis licet modicis vulneribus exquirunt scientes scriptum esse Deus non deridetur Finallie seeing they are both of greater faith and better feare which although they be guiltie of no wicked fact of sacrifice or libell yet because they haue so much as thought of such a matter they sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the Priests of God they make confession of their conscience they declare the burthen of their minde they seeke for wholsome medicine although for small and litle woundes knowing that it is writen God is not mocked What prescription is in these wordes of anie necessitie of confession of all the sinnefull thoughts of men his meaning is that they shewe them selues more faithfull and to feare God better which voluntarilie when there is no necessitie offer themselues to open repentance For their onelie purpose of sacrificing to the better quieting of their conscience then they which being polluted with libells as they called them by which they professed to paie monie that they might not be compelied to sacrifice to Idolls yet would not acknoweledge that they were in anie faulte which was necessarie for them to doe before they could be admitted into the congregation And therefore you haue neither practize nor proofe of the necessitie of auricular confession in Cyprians time which was 1000. yeares before the Lateran Councell which decreed the necessitie thereof That you will not speake much of Tertullian it is because you haue litle yea nothing at all in him to vpholde your purpose His booke de Poenitentia is well knowen to be written of open penance for such as were to be baptized or els had openlie fallen with offence of the Church but as for your popish sacrament of penance or confession before the priests otherwise then before the whole Church you haue nothing in that booke and therefore among other thinges pertaning to that seuere discipline of publike repentance where he reckeneth Presbyteris aduolui to be one he addeth immediatelie arie dei adgeniculari omnibus fratribus legationes deprecationis sue 〈◊〉 And to kneele before the altars of God to require all the brethren to praie for them And immediately it followeth haec omnia exomologesis vt poenitentiam commender All these things confession requireth to set forth repentance And as touching him that refuseth this discipline for shamefastenes his wordes are these Plerosque tamen hoc opus vt publicationem sui aut suffugere aut de die in diem differre praesumo pudoris magis memores quà m salutis velut illi qui in partibus verecundioribus corporis contracta vexatione conscteniam medentium vitant ita cum rubescentia sua pereunt Yet I suppose that many doe either eschew or defer from day to daie this worke as a defamation of themselues being more mindeful of shamefastnes then of their health as those men which hauing gotten a vexation in the secret partes of their bodie do auoide to haue it knowne to them that should heale it so perish with their shamefastnes This saying doeth not prooue the necessitie of confession of all our sinnes so often as we fall but the necessitie of open
sacrifices prescribed by the Lord for remission of sinnes saieth there are seauen kindes of remission of sinnes in the gospell namelie 1. In baptisme 2. In martyrdome 3. In almes giuing 4. Inforgiuing to other men 5. In conuerting a sinner 6. In abundance of charitie the seauenth he expresseth in these wordes which you rehearse verie vnperfectlie and translate falselie Est adhuc septima licet dura laboriosa per poanitentiam remissio peccatorum cùm lauat peccator in lachrimis stratum suum fiunt ei lachrimae suae panes die ac nocte cùm nou erubescit sacerdoti domini indicare peccatum suum quaerere medecinam secundùm cum qui ait dixi pronunciabo aduersum me iniustitiam meam domino turemisisti impietatem cordis mei In quo impletur illud quod Apostolus dicit Si quis autem infirmatur vocet presbyteros Ecclesiae imponant ei manus vngenteseum oleo in nomine domini oratio fidei saluabit infirmum si in peccatis fuerit remittentur ei There is yet a seauenth kinde of remission of sinnes though hard and painefull by repentance when the sinner washeth his bed with teares and his teares are made to him his foode daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the priest of the Lorde and to seeke medecine according to him which saith I haue saide I will pronounce against my selfe mine owne vnrighteousnes vnto the Lorde and thou hast remitted the vngodlines of my heart wherein that also is fulfilled which the Apostle saith if anie man be sick let him call the elders of the Church and let them laie their handes vpon him annointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord and the praier of faith shall saue the sicke person and if he haue bene in sins theyshal be remitted to him These are the words of Origen but you in your latine after indicare leaue out pee catum suum and translate it and is not ashamed to vtter all his sinnes to make the place seeme more pregnant for auricular confession I passe ouer that you alter the wordes folowing which are secundùm cum qui ait initio sicut scriptum est by which it appareth that you borowed this place out of some other mans allegation or note-booke negligentlie gathered and doe not cite it of your owne reading But to the matter I answere that Origen is not plaine for anie necessitie of shrifte to obteine remission of sinnes when he sheweth fiue other meanes to obtaine it after baptisme beside this Secondlie it is euident that he speaketh of open confession to be made in the exercise of publique repentance which is not necessarie for all men For otherwise there is no remission of sinnes after baptisme but vnto them that be penitent before God althouh they suffer martirdome giue almes forgiue other men conuert sinnes abound in charitie if they be not sory and repent for their owne sinnes they shall not obtaine forgiuenes at the hands of God He speaketh therefore of open repentance where there is open confession which also maie be gathered by his allegation of the texte of Saint Iames where not one priest for auricular confession but the Elders of the Church are called for The priest of the Lord also that he nameth by the text following of Dauides confession before God maie be vnderstood of Christ of whome the Leuiticall Priest to whome Origen alludeth was a figure as I haue declared before so that here is no plaine testimony nor any certeine warrant for the necessitie of eare confession For that confession maie be made for quieting of a mans conscience we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made by all men of all their mortall sinnes and that without such confession there can be no remission of sinnes that I saie we vtterlie and alwaies denie ALLEN S. Dionise also an Apostolike man doth inuinciblie prooue vnto vs that confession to a priest and the sacrament of pennance was in vse in his daies that is to saie in the Apostles time for he was S. Paules scholler He checketh verie earnestly one Demophilus a naughty Monke that you maie see Monkes be olde when there was an euill one in S. Dionise daies and yet there was an euill Apostle before there was an euill Monke that you maie see both orders be auncient though be they neuer so holie they cannot be alwaies void of euill But this Demophilus I saie bare a great rebuke of Dyonisius that he vsurped once a Priestes place and function and that on a time he thrust backe from the Priest and rebuked contemptuouslie a poore penitent that came to confession and called the Prieste sitting on confession a wretch and a miser that he durst take vpon him to make a sinner a iust man Which wordes were verie fitte for Luthers mouth an other religious man of like humour and honestie So soone was confession hated of the wicked and so speedilie was it desended of the faithfull as of Saint Dionise who here calleth the orders diuine actes of penance the decrees and institutions of God FVLKE Indeed we reade that one Dionysius Areopagita was conuerted by Saint Paul but that the author of these bookes which goe vnder that name was an Apostolike man we doe vtterlie denie For Eusebius S. Hierome Gennadius woulde not haue omitted the mention of such a writer and such bookes being so diligent sertchers of auncient monuments of the Church as they were if anie such had bene heard of in their times by the space of fiue or sixe hundreth yeares after Christ. But concerning the matter this Dyonise whosoeuer he be saieth nothing for the necessitie of auricular confession which is the matter in question although he rebuke Demophilus for abusing a poore penitent presuming to raile vpon the Priest and to commaund him to auoide Neither is there anie mention that the Priest did sit vpon confession or that the penitent came in popish manner to shriue himselfe but to seeke medecine for his sinnes perhaps to offer himselfe to open penance for some hainous transgression openlie knowne as it shoulde seeme by the wordes of Demophilus reported by Dyonisius But thou as thine owne betters declare didst thrust awaie with thy heeles an vngodlie and sinnefull man as thou saiest euen when he was fallen downe before the priest Thou being present against thy selfe then did he intreate and confesse that he was come for the healing of his diseases But thou wast not terrified but increasing in boldnes didst raile vpon the good priest that he was a wretch in iustifying a penitent and an vngodlie person and at length saidest vnto him get the out c. These words prooue not although they were the wordes of Dyonisius the Areopagite himselfe that it is necessarie that euerie man is bound to confesse euen his secret sinnes to a Priest And as for the sacrament of penance which you say is inuinciblie
conuenient that the release of deserued penance should be had of euerie inferior priest lest the discipline of the church should so become contemptible the release thereof being made common to so manie And it is the high prouidence of God that the waie to remit 〈◊〉 allie sinnes which is of necessarie to our saluation should be neere vs in euerie place and by the common ministers of the Church at al times to be obtained where the remission of the Churches discipline being more necessarie to be fulfilled and neuer or verie seldome necessarie to be whollie released should not be so easely obtained but hardlie had at the handes of a sex and them of excellent authoritie and reuerence in Gods Church FVLKE Throughout this booke he therto you haue ioyned the Bishops with the Pope in graunting of indulgencies as though their power in pardoning had beene somewhat proportionable vnto his But now you beginne to shake them of and it will appeere plainelie that hetherto you haue concealed how litle a peece of pardoning power is allotted to bishops and infinit authoritie left with the Pope wherem either the popish councell of Laterane too much abased the bishoppes or else the Pope too much hath aduanced his practize But in the argument of the Chapter you doe well and honestlie confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of the lawful ministers of these remissions by the same reasō you should confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of such kinde of remissions For God neuer graunteth anie power or authoritie but he appointeth also who shall be the laufull exercisers and executors of the same And if simple priests as you cal them haue authoritie to inioyne penance which is to binde by the plaine wordes of Christ they haue authoritie also to remit which is to loose But the iurisdiction and externall regimens of the Church you saie agreeth not to them which haue no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Let that be as you saie yet it were reason that as farre as their iurisdiction extendeth they should remitte and loose in the secret Court of mans conscience where they did binde although they gaue no publike pardons Neither can the vsage of anie auncient time be alledged against this that I saie nor the prescriptions of the auncient Canons which were made and practized of publike penance openlie inioyned in which the inferior priestes were prohibited to reconcile or remit without the knowledge of the Bishoppe But as there was no penance priuatlie inioyned by Priestes so there was no prohibition that it should not priuatlie be remitted of them by whome it was appointed The reasons that you alledge of the inconuenience of releasing of penance by euery inferior Priest are of no valewe for the discipline of the Church should be no more contemptible in releasing of tempor all penance then in releasing of eternall 〈◊〉 which power you allow to euerie hedge Priest Againe the punishment of so manie thousand yeares in purgatorie should not with such difficultie be obtained if either crueltie or couetuousnes in the Pope did not prohibit Where you saie the Church discipline is neuer or seldome to be wholy released you reprooue the Popes often Iubilies and dailie plenarie Pardons graunted of course to anie man that will buy them ALLEN And not onely that but also the nature of the act of pardoning doth wholie chalenge this function of the higher Magistrates of Christes common wealth For it standeth not onelie vpon the remission of debt but also vpon recompence of reparing againe the band thereof by the common treasure of the whole housholde of the faithfull which can not be by reason despensed and bestowed vpon anie man that lacked by any but such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some whole portion of the said familie as Bishoppes lawfullie succeeding the Apostles are known in this case to haue receiued the keies of Christs kingdome and the dispensing of his holy mysteries and therefore maie instly dispose the treasure of Christ and his Saintes satisfactions to the benefit of the faithfull in whose lardge cures it can no otherwise be thought but there be the merits of diuers holy and blessed men laied vp in store before God for the releefe of their brethren which maie be disposed at the Blshoppes wisdome to such namelie as be of his owne charge and regiment But of particular parishes it cannot be certaine that there should alwaies be some sufficiencie of aboundant satisfactions to remaine without decaie for the continuall bestowing vpon some of the said small circuit and that is it which the schoole diuines saie In particulari Ecolesta merita non sunt indeficientia merites of Sainctes be not vnspendable in particular Churches But the communion of Saintes being the generall benefit of the wholl common wealth of Christes Church continueth for euer by the aboundance of manie holy workes which may satisfie for other mens sinnes according to the disposition of such as be the gouernours and guiders of our soules that the ouerplus and aboundance of one sort maie euer releeue the lackes of an other sort as S. Paull speaketh in the like matter FVLKE The next argument to prooue that priestes cannot pardon is because the disposition of the treasure out of which the paiment goeth by reason pertaineth to none but to such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some wholl portion of the familie as bishoppes c. But are not priestes also stewards and rulers of their owne parishes which are also wholl portions of the familie and consist of many partes Whie maie they not then be dispensers of that vnknowne treasure you speake of You answer that in the large cures of bishoppes it cannot otherwise be thought but there be the merites of diuerse holy and blessed men laid vp in store to be bestowed by the Bishop to such as be of his own regiment but merites of Saints be not vnspendable in particular Churches Marke this reason well for hereof it followeth that the super abundance of Christes satisfaction which you make to be the ground of this imaginarie treasure is not of force of it selfe without the helpe of the merites of saints Secondlie the communion of Saints whereupon you would ground another parte of this treasure of satisfaction being limited by diocesses and not by parishes leeseth the nature of a communion which extendeth it selfe vnto al vnto whome it is common For if the merit of Christ were sufficient to ground a pardon vpon the priest in his parish beeing a steward of Christes satisfaction might graunt a pardon but because he lacketh perhapes the merites of Saints he maie not presume so much vppon Christes satisfaction alone Againe if the merites of Saints were founded vpon the communion of saints why should not the merits of the saints of the wholl diocesse yea of the whole world be auaileable and appliable to euerie man of euerie parish by the particular gouerner and guider of the
a lordly authoritie and imperiall souer aignitie he knoweth not by what right except it be from sathā But we know that frō sathā the first father of falsehood come these shameles lies of their vsurpation of Lordship or affectation of imperiall soueraignitie Wel yet he proceedeth and saith the Bishops doe excommunicase them and the Princes banish them God sheweth no signe for them except it be a miracle to make the liue starke dead while they faine that they are able by the vertue of there gospell to restore the dead to life as one Mathias did in Polonia And the like is reported of Caluine credibly in Geneua Touching the excommunication and banishment by the Prelates of Antichrists Church and Princes thrall vnto the same it ought to be no more preiudice to the preachers of the Gospell now then the condemnation of the high priestes of Pilate and Herod was to the author of the Gospell of olde As for miracles they are not to be required where the same doctrine is taught which so long agoe hath beene confirmed by the miracles of Christ and his Apostles and those fables of raising vp dead men by Caluine and others are like the tales of Robin Good-fellow which are reported to be done in so many places that no wise man thinketh them to be done in any Next this followeth a wholl floode of tedious rhetoricall railing in generall accusations of schisme heresie tumulis sedition rebellion contempt of Princes and lawes order and honestie At length he desireth to be excused of his bitternes in respect of the cursed mouthes of them which raile against Princes and Prelates Yet bringeth no example but of Luthers penne whome many men wish in deede to haue vsed a more temperate stile sometime especiallie against Princes temporall estates and he himselfe did openlie acknowledge his faulte therein especiallie his immoderate inuection against King Henrie the 8. But as For the Pope and his wicked cleargie of heretikes the vngodlie enemies of Christ and his Gospell it were a hard matter to exceede measure in vehemencie against them so lies slaunders be alwaies auoided If Luther saied that the Turke in suffering all religions is wiser then Popish Princes in persecuting the gospell I see not that his saying is greatlie to be misliked For it is more wisedome to follow Gamaliels councell in letting all alone then to fight against god against whome they are sure not to preuaile That Luther diswaded al men to obey the vngodlie decree of the Emperour proclaimed at Wormes who can iustlie be offended which knoweth that the obedience to Princes may not be yealded with manifest disobedience vnto God But here a great matter Luther saied in hearing of the Emperour at Wormes vpon those wordes of our Sauiour Christ in the Gospell I came not to send peace but the sword That it ought to be a thing wished for as moste acceptable to Christistian men and especiallie vnto him that strife and contention should rise and grow about the worde of God The witnes of this report is Lindane who farseth his Dialogues of dubitantius with al manner of fables that he can heare sounding to the discredit of Luther and the Protestants Although I see not what great harme should be in these words being vnderstood according to the saying of our sauiour Christ that seeing all men will neuer agree to imbrace the word of God it were to be wished that many men would contend against the impugners for it then that al men should agree to withstand it But Luther is charged to haue set out to the view of the wholl worlde seditious and heresicall bookes wherein he laboured to abolish all due obedience and to perswade the people torebellion robbing murth er sacking and burning of Citties and Churches I hope there is no man so farre caried beyond all iudgement of reason that he will beleeue this slaunder to be true seeing it is not possible that such a monster as he faineth him to be should haue beene so much fauoured and cherished by Princes and estates as Luther was Neuerthelesse you shall heare his proofes First Wicelius Luthers enemie reporteth that he saied that men should wash their handes in the bloode of the Romish cleargie If this reporte were true it prooueth not the former accusation For allbeit the Popish cleargie were all slaine by lawfull authoritie in detestation of there blasphemie and idolatry The gouernment both of the Church and common wealth should neuer the more decay but how are we bound to beleue Wicelius without proofe in this or in any other matter Then saith Frarine he affirmed in his writinges that it was the verie nature of the Gospell to mooue and stirre vp warre sedition that there ought to be no Magistrate no superiour at all among Christian men For which he quoteth Epist. ad frat infer Ger. which is an impudent fiction For he neuer writte anie such epistle or taught anie such doctrine but the cleane contrarie of the necessitie of Magistrates in al Christian common wealths Secondlie he chargeth him to haue written lib. de Potest seculari that men ought to pray to God that the vplandish men obey not their Princes nor goe to warre against the Turke the title of which booke finde not in his workes And sure I am no such matter is conteined in anie booke of what title soeuer but contrariwise he writeth many treatises against the rebellious Bowres verie earnestlie condemning their disobedience and sedition Thirdlie he quoteth lib. contr duo edict Caesaris that men shoulde contribute nothing towardes the charges of the warres against the Turke which is malitiouslie construed as though he denied tribute to the Emperour whereas he commendeth the iudgemét of the slates of Germany which when the Emperour would yelde nothing to their requestes for the libertie of religion denied to graunt him a subsidie or contribution which he required vnder a pretence to resist the Turke when his purpose seemes rather to be bent against the French King and perhaps euen against them whose monie he defireth to be giuen him He warneth them also that they attempt not rashly to warre vpon the Turke who in councell and moderation doth farre excell these Princes and liuing as they did might hope of no victory Forthlie he noteth lib de bello contra Turcam and Luther assert artic 24 that it was not lawfull for Christian men to warre against the Turke and whosoeuer did fight against the Turke fought against Gods punishment Whereas Luthers meaning was in anie such writings that those Christians which were vnder the Turkes dominion and had free libertie of there religion should not rebell against him although they were otherwise grieuouslie oppressed Last of all he alledgeth out of his booke de 〈◊〉 Babil that neither man nor angell had anie authoritie at all to make anie law or one syllable whereunto Christian men should be bound to obey more or longer then it pleaseth them For we are said
fit of the common wealth Besides this he imputeth to those warres the Turkes gaine of Hungary and whatsoeuer calamitie insued thereupon As though the first miserie of Hungary beganne not at the breath of the league with the Turke whereof the Pope was cause The next which fel in Luthers time when Belgrade was taken was long before any wars were mooued by the Protestantes or against them and so was that ouerthrow in which Lewes the King was ouerthrowen and slaine Al other inuasions of Hungarie by the Turk haue beene by occasion of the claime which Ferdinande the Emperours brother made to that kingdome wherein be was resisted by the Vaiuode of Transiluania The cōquest against the Turk that Frarin dreameth of might be atchiued by occasion of his ouerthrow at Malta were not these dissentions in religion I passe ouer as a thing to be wished for rather then loked for vntil God se the good time When all was Poperie and no appearance of dissention in religion the Turke neuerthelesse gained and Christendome went to wracke Therefore moste vnreasonablelie is the Turkes gaine and our losse imputed to the Protestants warres whoe mooue none but such as are necessarie for defence of religion and the common wealth when they are lawfullie called thereunto Likewise the shutting vp of the schoole dores and the solitarines of diuerse vniuersities in Fraunce which is an vsuall effect of warre must be laied to the charge of them whose oppression crueltie and tyrannie inforced those warres That Luther despised the vniuersitie of Louaine and called it a stable of Asset stewes and schoole of the diuell it was not for hatred of good learning but in contempt of those Barbarous doltes which in those daies opposed them selues against the light of the truth Erasmus whome all men knewe to haue deserued verie well of good learning writeth as hardlie of the vniuersitie of Louaine in respect of the multitude of vnlearned sophisters which were in that time as Luther saying there was no place for the muses there where so manie hogges grunted where so manie asses routed so many Camells blattered so many Iaies chattered so many pies prattled But doctor Cox is chardged to answer why the schooles in Oxford were suffered to go downe in King Edwardes time and the ordinarie disputations in Logick and Philosophie were left of Not for contempt of learning I warrant you but either because the Papistes his predecessers had so wasted the vniuersitie stock as it was not sufficient to set them vp or els because those litle celles were thought to be vnsufficient for so famous an vniuersitie and therefore they hoped that through liberalitie of the king or of the nobles a more magnificall building able to receiue the multitude of that vniuersitie should haue beene erected In the meane time the exercises of learning ceased not in euery colledge no nor yet the ordinary disputations inlogick and philosophie were left of but remooued to a more publike place namelie to Saint Maries Church where Master Warde the great professor of philosophie in the hearing of manie yet a liue did exercise the same by meanes of which good learning was as much promoted in King Edwardes time as euer it was before or since Naie saith Frarine they haue set their heades together and fullie agreed among them selues to banish the greeke and latine tongues quite and cleane out of the country O monster of impudencie who hath more deserued of the Greeke Latine Hebrew Caldy Syrian and Arabique tongues then such as haue bene professours of the Gospell Who are found in all places better learned in the tongues then they who haue more care to instruct youth in the knowledge of the tonges then they I knew the vniuersitie of Cambridge in Queene Maries time and this I dare be bolde to saie there are more good Grecians in one of the litle colledges now then was in those daies in the wholl vniuersitie But it is a great confirmation of Frarines or Fowlers senslesse slaunder that a preacher in the diocesse of Sarum beeing ignorant in the Latine tongue thanked God that he had neuer learned that Romish and Papisticall tongue If any such thing were it shewed the folly of one man which might be requited with an hundred mery tales of Sir Ihon Lacklatines in poperie if a man were disposed to blot paper with such bables But their ouerthrow of schooles and vniuersities saith he they excuse by bringing all knowledge into the mother tongue and by inuenting a compendious order of teaching wherby children in short time may profit more then auncient men in many yeares of olde time True it is that much knowledge is brought into the vulgare tongue for the benefit of them which haue not studied the learned languages and the methode of teaching hath found an easie waie in shorte time to great knowledge learning but it is vtterlie false that any such excuse is made for the ouerthrow of schooles and vniuersities which the professours of Christiā religion desire by al meanes to be mainteined and increased as there is manifest experience in all places where our religion is imbraced by publike authoritie When Luther burnt certeine bookes of the Canon law he meant no decay of good learning but protested against the heresie blasphemie of the Pope of which those bookes were full who neuerthelesse most iniuriouslie condemned Luther vnhard burnt his bookes vnconfuted Whatsoeuer Corolostadius did against good learning seeing Frarine confesieth it was misliked by Luther what should the blame therof extend any further then the offendour But Frarine wisheth they had beene satisfied with burning of bookes and had not proceeded to burning of men cutting of throtes tearing chopping in peèces with much foolish amplification of their crueltie in generall tearmes All which might be exemplified more truelie of Popish tyrannie in time of peace then it can be verified of any outrage committed in time of warre allowed by the Princes and captaines of the fielde or by the preachers and teachers of the Gospel But at length he descendeth to some particulars calleth forth Beza to tell him why he went vp to the pulpit in Orlians with his sword by his side and a pistolate in his hand and exhorted the people to shew their manhood rather in killing the papists then in breaking of images al which was reported to him at Orlians Although in time of warre it were not much to be wondered if the peacher especiallie in such places where be manie traiterous enimies as were that time in Orlians should be armed as well as other men yet it hath bene reported vnto me by them which heard dailie Beza preaching at Orlianes that there was no such matter But if he exhorted soldiers to exercise their manhoode against their enimies rather then vpon stokes and stones seing the warre was lawfull and necessarie I see not whie he should be reprehended The rest which followeth wherein he is charged with murther of
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke