others might by the readyng therof obtayne vnderstanding c. The Scripture is the power of God to saluatioÌ„ by it we knowe God and Christ by it we knowe our selues by it we are taught our duety toward our neyghbour by it we learn to obei our prince by it we know the true Prophet froÌ„ the false the Scriptures ar to be preferred before al the writings of men it is the touche stone wherby we ought to examine Ad Reginaâ— derecta fide the doctrines of men Cyril sayth it is necessary for vs that we folow the holy Scriptures not to swarue in anye thyng that is commaunded in them S. Ambrose vpon the. 1. Epistle to the Corinthes 4. chap. saith what soeuer is not receiued froÌ„ the handes of the Apostles is full of wickednes Cyprian in Sermon â— de lapsis And how dare they ordeyne and decree any thing without Christ whose hope and fayth vertue and glorye is whollye in hym Origine vpon Ezechiell Homili 7. lette vs folowe no man and if wee will folowe any wee haue Christe set foorth to vs to followe The actes of the Apostles are set forth vnto vs we know the doings of the Prophetes by the holy volumes that is a sounde exaÌ„ple to folow Theophilactus vpoÌ„ the Epistle to the Romains the last chap. sayth They whiche bryng any thyng beside the determinations and doctrine of the Apostles they bryng in offences heresies and dissensions Ireneus aduersus Valentini similiuÌ„ scripta lib. 2. cap. 56 â–ª Leane to the holy Scriptures which is the sure and vndoubted truth it is a sure stone wherwith to build when ye leaue this cleaue to any other doctrines c. S. Augustine in his prologue of his 3. boke of the trinitie sayth Obey not my writinges as thou wilte the Canonicall scriptures for what so euer thou shalt finde in theÌ„ that thou beleuest not the same beleue without douting but in myne if Authority of the wrytingâ— of the fathers thou finde any thing wherin thou art not persuaded thorowly beleue it not assuredly Againe in his 112. Epistle which he writeth to Paulm he speaketh to the like end IteÌ„ in his 2. boke of Baptisme against the Donatists 3. chap. he saith you alwayes alledge to vs the letters of CypriaÌ„ the sayinges of CypriaÌ„ why take you authoritie of CypriaÌ„ for your Scisme refuse his exaÌ„ple to trouble the church who is he that doth not well know that the Canonicall scriptures as wel of the olde as of the new Testament are conteined within limites which ar certain that the same is to be preferred to the writings of al the Bishops yâ— haue ben hereto fore so that we may not in any thing doute or dispute of it to wit whether yâ— all yâ— therin is be true or no but it is lawfull to repreheÌ„d the writings of the Bishops which were writen before or which wer writen after the coÌ„firmation of the Canonical scriptures either by word c. Moreouer Origene vpoÌ„ the Prophet Ieremie in his 1. Howelie sayth we must needes call to witnesse the holy Scriptures for without theÌ„ no maÌ„ ought to credite our sayings or writings S. Hierom vpon s Mathew fayth That which is spokeÌ„ without the authoritie of the scriptures euen as it is spoken so may it be reiected conteÌ„ned vpon Ieremie 9. chap. sayth The error of fathers mothers of auÌ„cesters ought not to be folowed but the authoritie of the scriptures the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God whiche he teacheth vs c. And within fewe lynes after he sayth Assuredly thorowe ignorauÌ„ce of the law men shall receiue Antichrist for Christ c. S. CypriaÌ„ to Cecil in his 3. boke of his Epistles 3. Epistle saith yf you do that which I coÌ„mauÌ„de you I will not cal you my seruauÌ„tes but my frends And also that Christ ought onely to be herd the father hath borne witnes from heauen saying This is my welbeloued sonne in whom I am well pleased heare him wherfore if it be so the Christ onely ought to be herd then ought we not to looke what any man before vs hath thought good to be done but that which Christ who is Christ and not custom is to be followed before all hath done for we are not bouÌ„d to folow the custome of meÌ„ but the truth of God for so much as God sayth by his Prophet Esay in ye. 29. chap They honor me in vain teaching the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts doctrines of meÌ„ And again in the Gospel Mathew 15. you reiect the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God to establishe your own traditions And therfore deare brother if anye of our predecessors eyther through ignoraunce or simplicitye haue not obserued that which the Lord hath taught vs to do by his example or doctrine that same may be refused for the symplenes therof may through the mercies of the Lord be pardoned him c. And shortly after he sayth if we be the elders ministers of God Christ I fynd not that we ought to follow any but God Christ for somuch as he saith in the Gospel of Iohn chap. 8. I am the light of the world he that followeth me shal not walke in darcknes but shal haue the Diuiâ—â—â—um institut lib. 6. cap. 8 light of life LactaÌ„ti ' Firmian ' in his 6. boke of his godly institutioÌ„s 8. chap. sayth we ought not to follow meÌ„ but god The canons decrees of the Popes in the. 9. distinct ca. Noli cap. Ego cap. Negare dist 24 1. quest ca. Non affermam ' say thus Men must dwell vpon the holy Scriptures not vpon the sayings of men how holy soeuer they be c. S. Chrisostome vpoÌ„ S. Iohn sayth in the end of the. 16. homelie That meÌ„ of occupatioÌ„ do seeke striue to be excellent in their occupacions Gredi desire of corporall things and carelesnesse of spirituall things but the christiaÌ„ can not render reasoÌ„ of his religion if these handy occupations were not knowen it were but losse of money but the coÌ„tempt of the christiaÌ„ religioÌ„ carieth with it destruction of the soule yet we tranayle in so great miserye madnes that we bestow in theÌ„ all our studie care but the things which are most necessary for vs and are most sure fortes of our saluation we esteme not at all It is it that letteth the heathens froÌ„ acknowledging their errour and causeth theÌ„ to scoffe at vs for albeit they are grouÌ„ded onely vpoÌ„ lyes to do al that which they do to defend the ignominie of their doctrine we which serue the truth dare not once opeÌ„ our mouthes to defend that which is ours why should they not condemne our great imbecillitie haue vs in supicion to be crafty disceitful why should they not speake euil of Christ as of a lyar who by his fraud should haue abused the simplicitie of the multitude we are
to erre S. Paule and S. Iohn Iame. i. Act. 3. 14 Gal. 1. 2. Dauid and Ely Esay and Moyses and all the Prophets and Apostles were men like vnto others subiecte to the same infirmities that others were and yet S. Paule doth so authorise his doctrine as hath bene alreadye sayd that he condempneth the Aungels of heauen if they doe gayne saye it Wherfore they conclude that euen so as the Prophets and Apostles were men and yet notwithstanding all their writinges are without errour euen so fareth it with the fathers in all their determinations and Councels D. They conclude veri euel and speak wholy against the sentence of S. Augustin who is as good a christiaÌ„ as any one For they attribute as much to the bokes ordinances of men as to the Canonicall bookes whereupon we oughte to consider that albeit the Prophets and Apostles were men yet notwithstanding there is greate difference betwene them and those that came after them For we are certayne that they spake by the spirit of God and that God hath not suffered any errour to be mingled in their writinges because that he woulde they shoulde be geuen and left to vs for most certayne rules wherby to examine all other doctrines There is yet an other matter besyde this which is well worthye to be noted To wit that if any of those by whom it hath pleased God to be serued in this woorke haue chaunced to committe any faulte in their office the spirite of God hath not hidden it but hath manifestly declared it to the end the men shoulde not so be moued with the authoritie of suche personages that they shoulde followe lies in the steed of the truth and vice in the steede of vertue We haue an euident example hereof in Nathan the Prophet who without hauing demaunded i. Sam. 7 at the mouth of the Lord sayd of his owne onely authoritie and proper councell to Dauid that he shoulde builde the Lordes house and temple wherfore he was rebuked and corrected immediatly the next nyght following by the Lorde who commaunded him to declare the contrarye to Dauid We may also alledge the example of the Prophet which was sent into Beth-el and was kylled by the Lyon i. kings 17 Iob in Iere. xx i. Kings xix Ionas 2 Gal. 2 and that of Iob and of Ieremie who cursed the day of their byrth and also that of Hely and of Ionas so many faults of S. Peter and especially that for the whiche S. Paule reproued him I leaue vntouched a number of others such lyke Now it standeth not so at this present with vs ne yet with the auncient doctors that were before vs. For seing that God woulde that thys rule shoulde be obserued in hys church it coulde not otherwise be but that it must be appoynted by a number of bookes certayne or ells there woulde neuer haue beene any ende Seing then that the Lorde hath once appoynted and allowed thys rule we maye compare vnto it neyther booke nor Councell what so euer they bee For if since the time of the Apostles there hath neuer beene man of what holines or knowledge so euer he were that hath so perfectelye and wel written and taughte as the Prophettes and Apostles didde without faylinge in anye one thinge â–ª wee maye not thincke that it is otherwise in their Councelles and Sinodall statutes then it is in their bookes For those that write such bookes be the very self and same men by whom the Councells are celebrated and holden vnto whom their aduises and opinions are spoken euen as they are couched in their bookes Wherefore they may as wel erre in the one as in the other we must also knowe that the most holy and perfecte men in deede haue not all the giftes of God neyther continuallye nor in all ages ne yet in all things no not those giftes in dede which are geuen vnto them but that GOD doth reueale manye thynges to others and at other tymes ¶ VVhat rule S. Augustine geueth concerning Councells and the vvritinges of the auncient Fathers T. SEing it is so it is very nedeful that we haue some certayne rule wherwith to guide vs in these matters D. I doe thinke that we can not doe better nor follow a better rule when any of these things come in question then to followe the maner of proceding that S. Augustine did vse with Maximine Bishop of the Arrians which would arme himself with the Councell of Arimine againste the conclusion that was made and confyrmed by the holy fathers touching the diuinitie of our Lorde Iesus Christ in the Councell of Nice by the authoritie of the truth as it is sayd and hy the truth of authoritie Tom. 6. Lib. 3. I may not now sayeth he alledge the Councell of Nice nor thou the Councel of Arimine as for a preiudice neyther am I bounde to the authorite of the one nor thou to the authoritie of the other Let vs debate the one matter with the other the one cause with the other the one reason with the other by the authoritye of the Scriptures not by proper and particular witnesse of euery man but by indifferent to vs both Which thing he hath also written in other places as concerning To Paul Epist 112 To Hic 29 Epist the authoritie of the Canonicall bookes agreeth very well with this I will not saith he that thou embrace myne authoritie to the end thou shouldest thinke it necessarie to beleue any thing because that I haue spokeÌ„ it but that thou beleue the Canonicall Scriptures And againe I confesse to thy charitie that I haue learned to beare that honour and reuerence to the onely bookes of the Scriptures which are called Canonicall that I doe beleue assuredlye that no one of the authors of them hath in any one iote of his writinges erred And iâ—â—â—diatlye after he sayth But I read yâ— others in such 〈…〉 what excellencie of holines and doctrine so euer be 〈…〉 I thinke not that which they saye to bee true because that they were of that opinion but because that I am perswaded that that whiche they speake is agreeing to the truth eyther by the Canonicall authors or els by apparaunt reason This is his manner of writing to Saint Hierome And agayne thou seest here howe S. Augustine submitteth the writings of the auncients and the CouÌ„cels to the worde of God and to the determinations therof conteyned in the holy Scriptures and maketh it iudge aboue all T. I do finde the aduise of S. Augustine very good but me thincketh there are other things to be considered in that conference and difference of the auncient Doctors and determinations of the lawfull Councels whereof I woulde gladlye heare the resolution But because that we haue entreated of manye good poyntes touchyng thys matter of Councells it seemeth to me very good for this present hers to make an ende to the end I may haue some little tyme to call to my remembraunce
their workes and not according to their fayned show of Christianitie S. Hierom vpon the. 9 cha of the Prophet Osee fayth I do noâ— fynde by the auÌ„cient hystories that any other haue deuided the Church and seduced the people of the houshould of God but onely the Priestes and Prelates whom God hath appoynted to be the spialles watch meÌ„ for the ChristiaÌ„s against yâ— enemies of the church S. Bernard in hys Appologie to williaÌ„ the Abbot sayth The wals of the Church do shyne but the pore are in distresse the stone Wherof the church consâ—steth workes of her are clothed with gold but she leaueth her children naked Isichius vpon Leuiticus boke 4. chap. the. 14. sayth They may well bee called the deckyng of the house that doo maintaine it to witte those orders of men whiche teach godlynes or godly thynges for of suche is the Churche made in dede and not as many do thinckâ— of wood and stones And therfore when in the olde tyme it was commaunded to assemble the church Moyses did not bring together tymber stones and such like but the people the elders the Leuits Saint Chrysostome of his resignatioÌ„ or banishment Hom. 20 sayth The church consisteth not of walles but of the multitude of good people S. Bernard vpon the Cantiqueâ— in his 33. sermon sayth Now from whom shal the church hyde her The coÌ„plaiÌ„t of Bernard self all are frendes and all are enemyes all are allies and all are aduersaries al are of the houshold and none is at quiet al are neighbours and euery maÌ„ seketh his own profit they are the ministers of Christ serue Antichrist they walke in honour with the goods of the Lorde yet they honour not the Lord froÌ„ thence coÌ„meth that beautie of the whore which thou dayly doest see clothed as players of staige playes apparelled as a king of this thou seest the golde vpon their brydles fadles and spurres of this are the tables furnyshed with meates and vessells of this are the dronkennesies and gluttonies of this proceedeth the harpe viall from thence are the flowing wine presses the ful sellers the one equall with the other of this are the litle boxes and pottes full of swete oyntmentes and sauours of this are their pursses filled for this cause wil they be ar the princes of the Church the Prouostes the Deanes the Archdeacons the Byshops and the Archbishops and such things come not lawfully to passe but because they walke in the affaires of darknes heretofore it hath bene spoken of and nowe is the time come and fulfilled Beholde in peace my bitternes is very bitter It Esay 38. d hath beene heretofore bitter in the death of the Martyrs after that more bitter in the controuersies of the heretiques now it is most bitter in the maners of the seruauntes of the housholde they can neyther be driuen awaye nor auoyded they are so strong and so infinitely encreased The wound of the Church is in her entrayles and bowells and it is incurable and therfore is her bitternes very bitter c. S. Hillarie writing against Aurentius sayth these wordes I warne AdmonitioÌ„ of Hillary you to beware of Antichrist you doe to much esteeme the walles seeking the Church of God in the gorgiousnes of buildinges thinking that the vnitie of the faythfull is there conteyned doe we doubt whether Antichrist haue hys seate there or no. The mountaines the woodes the lakes prisons and wildernesses are more assured vnto â—e and more safe for the Prophets being in them hidden did prophecie Saint Bernard vpon the. 90. Psalme and verse 6. sayeth in maner al the Christians seke their own gayn not the gaine of Iesus Christ And they haue turned ouer the very offices of the ecclesiasticall dignitie into shamefull and dishonest gayne and into affaires of darknes and do not in these things seke the saluation of soules but the pleasures of riches For thys cause are they rouÌ„ded for this cause do they haunt the churches say Masses anâ— sing Psalmes At this daye they striue by proces go to lawe for Bishoprikes Archbishoprikes in such sorte yâ— the reuenues of yâ— Church are vestowed in superfluities and vaine vsages there resteth no more but that the man of sinne the sonne of perdition be reueled c. Saint Bernard in his sermon of the conuersion of S. Paul sayth O Lord God those whom we see to couet the chiefe places in thy church and possesse the principalitie they are euen the first that persecute thee They haue taken the Arke of Sion and they haue possessed the castle and afterward haue frely through the power therof set the whole ciâ—ie on fyre their coÌ„uersation is miserable the subuersioÌ„ of thy people is lamentable S. Bernard in his boke de considâ—r ad EugeniuÌ„ toward the ende of his 4. booke speaketh to the Pope in this sorte what is it that thy flatterers saye vnto thee goe to hardely The description of the Romish Court. thou byest them with the spoyle of the churches The lyfe of the poore is sowen in the gates of the riche The siluer shyneth in the dirte meÌ„ runne thither out of al parâ—es the poorest caryeth it not awaye but he that is strongest or ells hee that runneth moste spedelye this custome or rather deadlye corruption began not in thy time God would it might end in the same In the meane time thou art adourned decked preciously if I durst say it thy seate is rather a close of deuils then of shepe Dyd S. Peter so Did S. Paul so mocke Thy court doth vse rather to receaue the good then to make any good for such as are euill do not amend in thy court but the good do there waxe worse Bernard also sayth Beholde the Ad Eâ—gen lâ—b â—eâ—tio common murmure and complaint of all the Churches they crye out that they are wounded and corne in peeces There are very fewe or none ar all who feare not that wouÌ„d doest thou aske what wound it is The Abbotes are robbed and spoyled by their bishops the Bishops by their Archbishops It is a maruell if any man be able to excuse it In so doing you do very wel declare that you haue plentie of power but not of iustice you do it because you are able to doe it but the question is if you ought to doe it You are ordayned to conserue to euery man his honour and degree not to be enuious toward him c. S. Paule doth rightwell setforth in his colours this Romishe prelate whiche will be called Sanctissimus or most holy in his second Epistle to the Thessalonians and. 2. chap. naming him the sonne of perdition the man of sinne c. S. Peter also in his 2. Epistle and. 2. chap. doth most liuely paynt out the maners and life of this Romyshe rabble of Prelacy Furthermore in the distinctioÌ„s distinct 34 cap Lector glose distinct 82 chap prisbit and in
principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of ⧠The second Dialogue intituled the waiting for the Councell or the Newtralles Of the reasōs vvhich cause many to desire vvait for a Councel and of the trouble that the difference vvhich is in Christendome in matters of Religion doth bryng to simple and ignoraunt consciences Daniel Timothe D. THou doost well remēber where we left as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell T. Yea in dede D. Will these men tary to beleue in God to serue him and to enquire of his will vntill the tyme that the Councell hath ben holden and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation of that which thou hast said that if they should serue God truly it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof why do they then tary for a Councell T. Bycause they say that in so great diuersitie of opinions as at this present day is in Christendome in matters of Religion they know not whiche to folow in surety For they see that some teache after one sort the others after an other that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions as betwene white and blacke and betwene fire and water That whiche one aloweth an other disaloweth that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine and for true seruice of God an other condempneth it as heresie or els as superstition hypocrisie Idolatrie and Apostasie And besides this ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance great vnderstanding and great authoritie accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side then of the other men heare their discourses men read their writtinges bookes there are goodly reasons of both partes which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures and by all meanes possible In this cause what shal a poore man do whiche feareth to offend God and hath a good desire to serue him accordyng to his wil but he may not wel attain to the knowlege therof bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God the other sayth it is not the will of God ¶ Hovve that the difference that is in Christendome in matters of Religion should not stay men from the diligent enquirie of the vvyl of GOD but shoulde rather prouoke them thereunto T. I Confesse that these differences which are in Christendome engender great trouble in the poore consciences of many but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible of the will of God and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him but they should the more earnestly be moued and prouoked to do it to ridde them selues with as much speede as they myght out of suche troubles For why least they tary in it if they haue any feare of God in what trouble shall they lyue and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate without hauynge some thynge certayne and resolued in my mynde whereunto I myght assuredlye staye T. For thys they require a Councell for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined that there shall bee a generall and a sure determination throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte and may know wherunto to trust D. It semeth vnto me that their hope is very slender if they haue no better hope then this I maye not deny but their desire is good we all ought to desire the same if there were any hope to se it come to passe that with spede for the soner it were that better bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of the soule thē of the body for if the medicine of the body come not in tyme to hym that is sicke that sicke person is not in daūger but onely of his bodely life but if the medicine of y◠soule be to long deferred ther is daūger of eternall death wherfore I do greatly feare that manye doo perish in tarying for those medicines T. There is much to be feared and also to be doubted in this matter ¶ VVhat profite the Churche of God may receaue of Councelles and of theyr issue D. THe Sinodes lawfull Coūcels is one of the best remedies that mē may haue to take away cōtrouersies in religiō it is the remedi wherunto in like cases that Apostles their true successors al that aūciēt church haue oftētimes had their recourse for albeit that the Coūcels haue no authority nor power to giue vnto the churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith but only to hold maintain y◠doctrine which is reueled by the holy Scriptures yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose in so much that they be as publike witnesses vnto it to succor the infirmitie of the simple weake also such as shall come after vs by the confessiō which is made of the same by thē by the publike testificatiō y◠there is declared by the perpetual cōsent of the Church of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end that the aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues better meanes much more meete for such a purpose then we haue at this presēt yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine that in their Coūcels which they desired And such vntowardnes was there that they did alway not onely not apease the differences abolish scismes heresies which troubled the Church but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples it were easy to do but we will not now enter into such matter I will cōtent me for this time to alledge onely touching this matter that testimonie the Gregory Nazianzen which was Master to S. Hierom did giue writting to Procopius of the Coūcels of his tyme whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time if I must nedes sayth he write the truth I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good or rather that they haue more encreased the euil then quenched it Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene touching this matter Which semeth to me somethynge harde for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue hath not ben such as was to be desired yet notwithstandyng Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels
the which sentence S. Chrysostome agreeth well saying that the Councell maye ordeine nothing against the word of God for what so euer Hom. de perfect Euang is ordayned against the holy Scripture is errour ¶ Of the true Councels vvhich do excell al the reste in authority ar the rule by the which al the rest must be examined T. THose which desire a Councell shoulde consider in the same what hath bene ordained by that auncient Councells by the holy Scriptures to the end that men may know which is the true doctrine of the Church which men oughte to embrace D. We haue very good meane to know it and not to tarye at all for a Councell For among al the Councells there are chieflye two of the authoritie that all the reast are nothing in comparison of them by whom all the reast must be measured whose decrees are so plaine that there is no doubt in them but that euery man that wil be gouerned by them may vnderstand them as it is nedefull for al those that will be saued T. I did thinke there had bene foure generall Councells to witte that of Nice of Constantinople of Ephese and of Chalcedone the which S. Gregory confesseth to receaue allowe and honour as he doth the foure bookes of the holy Grego iâ— Registr diâ—inc 5 Gospell D. I do also confesse that these foure were that principall of all those that were holden sythe the Apostles time but it semeth to me that Gregorye doth geue vnto theÌ„ more authoritie then he ought to do in comparing them to the bookes of the foure Euangelistes But what soeuer they be the two of the which I speake are yet muche more auncient then are those of far greater authoritie for God himselfe in proper person did there preside did speake with his own mouth dyd there shew his presence in great maiestie and by great and excellent myracles tokens T. In what place and at what time were these Councells holden D. The first was holden in the Mount Synai in the beginning of the third moneth after that God had brought the people of Israell forth of the land of Egipt The other was holden in the country of Iewry namely in the Mount Sion in the Citie of Ierusalem at that tyme that our Lorde Iesus Christ was seene vppon earth and that he did accompanie among men in the forme of man but they were called and assembled by other meane then the Councells of the Papistes holden in other sorte ¶ Of the authoritie of the princes and of the Popes concerning the Councells and of the Popes tyrannie in that behalfe and vvhat aduauntage he hath at this present T. SEing we are happened vppon this matter of calling holding of Councells I would be verye glad if that thou wouldest declare vnto me some little peece of the order that the papistes do obserue in holding of Councells to the end that I might the more easely vnderstand if we should haue as small hope in theÌ„ as thou hast D. Thou doest aske of me a verye hard thing For how should I declare to thée that order of those which haue no order But the trouth is that thou makest yâ— matter somewhat the more easye in that that thou requiresâ— of me but a litle But yet I know not where to finde yâ— litle yâ— thou doest aske of me if it be true which I haue heard of meÌ„ worthy of fayth which haue bene present haue seene yâ— experience of it Thou shouldest haue spoken a greate deale more aptly if thou haddest required me to declare vnto thee the disorder the which alwaies they cloke in such sort that it shall seeme in dede to those that shall beholde the manner of their proceding that they wil obserue the order that hath bene vsed in the auncient Councells sauing that the Popes do alwayes seke to encroche not only vpoÌ„ the authoritie of Emperors kings Christian princes more then the auncient bishops did but also vpoÌ„ the word of god the Church T. In what sort D. We haue alreadie shewed how the auncient Emperours kings Christian princes did accustom to assemble the CouÌ„cells not alwayes by tirannie but by good accorde agrement with the good Bishops the true pastors of the Church now the Popes do not onely take vnto them authoritie ouer Emperours kings christian princes such as in time passed they were wonte to haue ouer the Popes the other Byshops But also wheÌ„ they haue had the meanes They haue caused Councels to be holdeÌ„ of their own authoritie in despite of the Emperors princes â–ª wheÌ„ they did know that they coulde not haue the Emperours and princes at their deuotion as we haue alreadye shewed by example But now in these daies because that the greatest number and the greatest princes of Christendome are much at the deuotion of the Pope they do more easely agree together in this poynt theÌ„ those which are of contrarye religion â–ª if there be any other which do not well agree with him he maketh no great accompt of them but estemeth them vnworthye of his Councell T. Hath he not reason so to do ¶ Of the manner of the proceeding of the Papistes in their Councels and of their presidentes and of the princes Ambassadours that are sent thither and of their instructions and of the practise of the Pope and his and of the disputations that they haue there D. THe Councell being appoynted and called if the Pope the Emperour the Kinges and the Christian princes be not there present they haue then there their Ambassadours Legates to represent their persons they haue also their instructions to lead them according to that yâ— euery of theÌ„ hath in charge if that Pope be not present to preside then his Legates do preside These worthy meÌ„ before they come thither do first aske as it is mete for such Prophets as they ar at the mouth not of the soueraign god but of the Pope their God vpon earth to vnderstand of him how he will haue theÌ„ to conclude in the Councel For seing that he is God he hath also his holy spirite agreable to his deitie And when they are in this sort well instructed of that will of their God theÌ„ go they on inspired with his sprite do put forth to the Councel those articles which they haue in charge from their God to propone whose kingdooÌ„ glory they haue chiefly in recoÌ„meÌ„da cioÌ„ WheÌ„ this is don theÌ„ they dispute of theÌ„ in soÌ„e gret haul and ther those that wil dispute are heard not to find out therby the truth to conclude accordyng to the same but to make a countenance to hold some forme of a lawfull CouÌ„cel in the which it was accustomed to geue audience to all that woulde come as wel of that laitie as of meÌ„ of the church for the coÌ„clusioÌ„ that shall be made is already determined in the secret Councell
also spoken of the difference agrement yâ— is betwene the olde new testameÌ„nt the law the Gospel of the ministerye of the one the other of the diuersity and of the vsage of the lawes geueÌ„ by Moyses of his office and of Iesus Christ ⧠The fourth Dialogue intitled the resolucion of Councels ¶ Of the charge whiche God gaue to Moyses and of the authority of the lawe by him geuen and of the whole doctrine of the Patriarches and Prophetes Timothe Daniel I Am euen now newlye come from reading the second booke of Moyses in the which he hath written of this matter for the which I doo now come to thee here reasteth no more but that thou instruct me of some principal pointes of the doctrine howe I might make my profit of them and dayly to encrease in the knowledge of the authority of this great and generall Councell to the which thou doest referre me D. All be it that I doubt not at al but that thou hast made praier vnto God before thou coÌ„mest to me to the ende that he might graunt grace both to thee and me so to handle his holy woord that it might be to his honour and glory and to our health as we ought alwayes to do when we take in hand so holy a worke yet for al that it shall be very wel done that we both together doo cal vpon him before that we procede anye further in thys matter T. That is verye reasonable and meete D. The Lord for his mercies sake heare our prayers But to our purpose wherof we spake before thou must first note that God himselfe gaue charge to Moyses to cal the people together of whom he had ordained him Pastor and leader was serued by him in that vocation and ministerye as of his legate and embassadour And albeit that God had alredy sufficiently authorised the ministerye of Moyses by the great tokens and maruels which he had done by his hand in the presence of all the people of Israel as well in Egipt before their comming out of it as in the wyldernes after it Yet notwithstanding it pleased him not to speake at that time vnto them by his owne seruaunt and Embassadour Moyses as before time he was wont to do but would himselfe in proper person speake in the presence of all the people and would that the eares of them al shoulde heare hys voyce by the which he gaue the ordinances determinacioÌ„s decrers and Canons of this great Councell whereof we haue already spoken in the first place For the doctrine of the law is an vnderstanding and knowledge of the will of God which is as it were borne with man in his creation in so muche as God hath printed it in hys hart and hath endued him with that grace as with others wherewith he hath endued him when he did create and make him to hys image and likenes But forsomuch as it hath bene greatly darkened and blotted by meanes of sinne which afterward came into the world we must of force come to the vnderstanding and knowledge of the Gospel which is not natural as is that of the lawe nor of the benefit of our fyrst creation as is this here but of that of the regeneracion redempcion and iustification which is reuealed vnto vs by the sonne of God who brought it vnto vs from the bosome of the father Therfore thou mayest see here playnlye who was the author and President of this Councell and from whoÌ„ this doctrin which is brought vnto vs to be the rule to try all other doctrine by which should be set foorth vnto vs in the name of God is proceeded For seing that God by this meane did auowe Moyses to be his seruaunt and for his Prophet and lawful Embassadour we maye be out of doubt that that lawe and doctrine whiche he brought is of God wherfore we may assuredly receiue and esteme it not for mans doctrine but for the doctrine of God And for somuch as that doctrine which hath bene authorised and allowed in thys CouÌ„cel by the authority and the very mouth of God is that same doctrine which in time past al the holy Patriarches did holde and obserue euen from the beginning of the world and that veri same also which since hath bene embraced and followed by al the holy Prophetes and true seruantes of God ther is no doubt but that al the doctrine which the Churche of God hath followed euen from the beginning of the world and hath alwaies bene entertayned and continued in the same by the ministerye of the Patriarches and Prophets hath bene by that same meane authorised allowed and ratified T. For so muche as it is one very doctrine ther is no doubt but that the approuing of the one is also the approuing of the other ¶ How that the allovving of the doctrine of the olde Testament is also the allovving of that of the nevv and hovv the nevv expoundeth the old D. ANd albeit that that same whyche our Lorde Iesus Christ hath brought vs from heaueÌ„ and that it hath bene declared to men as well by the ministerye of him as by that of his Apostles and Disciples and of their successors hath bene agayne authorised and approued in a farre more excellent sort yet standeth it so notwithstanding that the allowing and ratifieng thereof doth agree with that of the doctrine of the Patriarches and Prophets for Christe Roma x. Ephe. ii Act. 2. and hys haue taught nothing contrarye to the same but haue approued and accomplished it For this cause Saynt Paule doth cal Christ the end the performance and fulfylling of the law and the fouÌ„dacion or ground worke of the Prophets and Apostles for that cause he speaketh plainly before Agrigâ—a saying that he hath taught nothing but that whiche Moyses and the Prophetes dyd teache before him Likewise our Lord Iesus Christ did often times refer the Iewes to the testimony of Moyses saying that he had Iohn v witnessed of hym and did send and commende them to the scriptures as it hath bene already declared Moreouer thys agrement of the law of the Prophets with Iesus Christ Math. 17. Luke 1â— hath bene declared in his transfiguracion in that that hys Apostles did see hym with Moyses and Elias also when he opened the hartes of his Disciples going to Emans he did alledge the testimonies written of him in the law in the Psalmes and Prophets we may then easelye vnderstande by this that euen as the Prophets which were sent from God after Moyses were as it were expounders of the law and of the doctrine which he had set forth to hys Church as wel by him as by the Patriarches which were before him euen so our Lord Iesus Christ and his Apostles haue bene the very true expositors of all the auncient doctrine those by whom the last determinacion of al the doctrine of saluation hath bene set forth and declared to the Churche
and when wee shall eyther take in oure handes the booke of the holye Scriptures thereby to vnderstand of the wyll of GOD or elles that we come together in the Church to heare hys voyce by the holy Ministery of hys worde or els to communicate and be partakers of hys holy sacraments and of the prayers which are there made we oughte to goe with no lesse reuerence ne yet to prepare oure selues in none other sorte then yf we shoulde heare Actes ii God wyth hys owne mouthe speake out of the cloude and out of the greate smoke whiche was in the Mounte of Synay and that we dyd heare the greate thunders and the lyghtninges that were then sene For euen the same God whiche then dyd there speake is euen he that speaketh at thys present daye in hys Churche and shall iudge vs accordyng to that lawe whiche he hathe published there And albeit that he speaketh vnto vs nowe more familiarly and more louynglye then he then dyd yet notwythstandyng let vs not thyncke that he is of lesse power and force then he then was But in that that he vseth such gentlenes and benignitie towarde vs the punishment shall be so muche the greater vppon vs yf we doo abuse the same Yf we wyll vnderstande howe wee oughte to guide and gouerne oure selues wee muste cleane to the resolution of thys Councell and to the decrees and ordinaunces whyche we haue receyued ¶ Of the Councell that vvas holden in the Mounte Syon and of the conference of the same vvyth that vvhyche vvas holden in the Mounte Synay and of Moyses and of Iesus Christe and of the Ministery of the lavve and of the Gospell T. THys is a goodlye Councell and of greate authoritie but thou saydst that there was yet an other in the lande of Chanaan and of Iudea and in especiall in the Mounte of Syon by the verye Sonne of GOD. I woulde bee verye gladde that thou wouldest declare vnto mee also what that was D. That Councell dothe euen so muche excell the other as Iesus Christ Heâ— iii dothe excell Moyses and the Master of the house the seruaunte For thoughe that GOD hym selfe dyd speake in proper person in bothe yet notwithstandyng he hathe shewed hym selfe this seconde tyme in a sorte muche more authentique and more excellent more amiable and agreable to the weakenesse of mans nature then euer he dyd synce the beginnyng of the worlde For when he shewed himselfe in the mounte Synay the people dyd not see his Deut. 4. Exod. xiâ— Hebr. ii face nor shape nor dyd see or heare anye thing but suche as were horrible and fearefull It was not lawfull for them to doo so muche as to come to the mountaine or to touche the vttermoste parte thereof wyth out daunger of deathe and to bee stoned or striken thorowe wyth arrowes were it man or beaste Therefore the people beynge greatlye amased and afrayde desired Moyses to be Exod. xx Eeu xxviii as a meane betwene GOD and them and to declare vnto them hys wyll and pleasure as hys Embassadour to that ende that they moughte heare no more that voyce of GOD so horrible and fearefull for they thought that they coulde not heare it agayne but that they shoulde all dye and dyd muche maruell that euer they coulde heare it with oute deathe Wherefore GOD knowyng the weakenesse of hys people dyd promise them to sende them a Prophet euen oute of the middest of their brethern lyke vnto Moyses into whose mouthe he woulde put his worde and by Deut. xviii the same he woulde cause them to heare his voyce This Prophete accordyng to the testimonye of Sainâ—t Peter is Iesus Christe oure Lorde of whome the Father hymselfe dyd saye This is my welbeloued sonne in whome I Actes iii. Math. 3. 1â— haue set my whole delighte heare hym And for that cause the Apostle saythe writyng to the Hebrewes that God hath Heb. i in tyme passed oftentymes and in sundrye sortes spoken to our Fathers by the Prophetes but in these latter dayes he hath spoken to vs by hys own Sonne and making comparison of thys manifestation whiche was made by oure Sauioure Iesus Christe wyth that of the mounte of Synay Truely sayth he you are not come to the mountayn whiche moughte bee touched nor to burnyng fyre nor yet Heb. xiâ— to darkenesse and myste and vnto tempest neyther vnto the sounde of a trompette and to the voyce of wordes the whiche those whiche dyd heare it refused that the communication should be addressed to theÌ„ any more for they could not endure that which was commaunded If a beast touch the mountayne he shall bee stoned or elles stricken thorow wyth a darte And so terrible was the sighte that appeared that Moyses sayde I feare and quake but you are come to the mounte Syon and to the Citie of the lyuyng God the heauenly Ierusalem and to the companye of manye thousandes of Aungels and to the congregation of the firste borne which are written in the heauens and to God which is iudge of all and to the spirites of iust and perfecte men and to Iesus Christ the mediatoure of the newe TestameÌ„t and to the sprinckled bloude of whiche declareth better things then the bloud of Abell See that you despyse not him that speaketh for if they escaped not whiche despysed hym that spake on earth much lesse shall we escape yf we turne away from hym that speaketh from heauen whose voyce then shooke the earth T. It semeth to me that these wordes conteyne a goodly conference of the Ministery of the lawe and of the Gospell and I haue a great desyre to heare it ¶ Of the manifestation of God in Christ D. THen where as the people saw nothing at that tyme but fyre and smoke and greate darcknes whiche letted them from seyng both the Sunne and the Moone Deut. 4. also the heauens God hath shewed himselfe to vs in Iesus Christe his sonne in mans shape in our owne fleshe For it is he that is the very Image of God and that very forme of hys substance the bryghtnes of hys glory It is he that is the true Iohn i â— Tim. iii Seb. i. Mal. iiii Iohn viii Sonne of Iustice and the onely lyghte of the worlde by whome all mystes and darckenesses are chased away euen those whiche let vs to see GOD. And where as then the people durste not come to the foote of the Mountayne howe perfecte and howe well prepared so euer they were to receyue the Lorde wee haue nowe accesse euen to the verye throne of hys Maiestye by Iesus Christ our Lord through whome it is geuen vs not onely to come vnto hym but also Heb. iiii to touche embrace hym for the sanctification which i. Cor. 6 Dan. ix wee haue receyued of hym that is the holye of holye ones is in deede of other vertue and efficacye then was that of Moyses towardes the Israelites In the