may be made in S. Augustine who as Caluin confesseth being a faithfull witnesse of antiquity Lib. 18 de Ciuit. cap. â—6 Calu. li. 4. â—nst c. 14. Sac. testifieth touching the bookes of the Machabees that althou ' the Iewes receiue them not for Canonicall yet the Church doth receaue them And according to this it being true that few or none of the great multitude of writers which the kinght produceth in euery seuerall age doe positiuely affirme that those 22. bookes of scripture onely which the reformers vse were by the vniuersall Christian Catholike Church held to be the complete or intire Christian Canon of the ould testament or that those particular bookes now in controuersie betwixt vs them were expresly reiected eueÌ„ by the Iewes themselues as not Canonicall or not of infallible credit not rather held by them for sacred diuine althou not registred in their Canon which is the cheife part of Sir Humfreyes proposition it followeth cleerly that he quite faileth in his proofe that for all his braggs he onely steppeth out of his pretended safeway into the same by path he hath euer walked in since he firste began to write neuer omitting his occustomed sleightes in the allegation of authors concluding his section with that laregelye so often repeated by him in this other places as affirming that by his aduersaries owne confessions the true orthodox Church did reiect those Apocriphall bookes which his Church reiecteth the Trent Councell alloweth at this day for Canonicall out of which thrasonicall audacity of this boysterous Caualier the reader may easily take a scantling of the rest so come to know the fox by his tatterd tayle â—ec 6. In his sixt sex section he pretendeth to solue the Romanists arguments deduced froÌ„ authoritie of Fathers Councells for those bookes which the reformers hold for Apocriphall Touching which point althou ' it cannot be denyed but that doubt was made in former times among the fathers whether the foresayd bookes were Canonicall or not in which there was diuersitie of opinions especially before the Councell of Carthage neuerthelesse it is certaine that neither the whole Church in any Councell nor yet anie of the Doctors or fathers did positiuely at any time euer agree to exclude them out of the Christian Canon but as some of the fathers made doubt of the same so others made none at all among whome S. Augustine was so confident in that matter that in his 2. booke of Christian doctrine that not obiter but professedly treating of it he setteth downe the very same number names of the very same bookes which the Roman Church defendeth for Canonicall at this present day yet notobstanding this our aduersarie is so presumptuous voyde of shame that he doubtes not to affirme that Sainct Augustine did not allow the bookes of Iudith â—… 132. wisdome Ecclesiasticus the Machabees for Conanicall In iustification of which his impudent assertion it is wondrous to consider how the crafty Sicophant doth excercise his witts in framing euasions wherby to elude the plaine testimony of that renowned orthodox Doctor the decree of the Councell of Carthage in that particular to which the same S. Augustine subscribed eueÌ„ in this same point of the Canonicall scriptures reiected by the preteÌ„siue reformed Churches Howbeit all that Sir Humfrey could inuent for the infringeing of these two sound irrefragable authorities consists either wholely or cheeflie in equiuocations insincere dealing in the citing construeing of the authors he alleageth yea in vttering of diuers plaine vntruthes as where he saith of the third Councell of Carthage that it is not of that authority as the Romanists themselues pretend adding presently after for reasoÌ„ of his first lye another as great or greater against Bellarmine affirming that the Cardinall wheÌ„ the Protestants produce this Councell against the head of their Church answereth that this prouinciall Councell ought not to binde the Byshops of Rome nor the Byshops of other Prouinces citing him for this sayeing in his 2. booke de Rom. Pont. cap. 31. where neuerthelesse there are no such wordes to be found And finallie to omitt other of lesse noyse he affirmes that S. Augustine declares by pregnant seuerall reasons that the Machabees are Apocriphall yet he denyeth not euen in this very place but that the same S. Augustine both put them in the Canon of the scriptures in his second booke de doct Christ nor yet that he affirmed in his 18. booke de Ciuit. Dei cap. 36. that the Church hath them for Canonicall thou ' the Iewes hould them not for such By which it appeeres that Sir Humfrey touching this point of controuersie is not in the way of S. Augustine of the determination of the Church of Rome in his times but is with shame enuffe fallen againe into his owne by way where he his progenitors haue euer wandred since the daies of Luther Sect. 7. In the seuenth section he reprehendeth the proofe of Catholike doctrine by traditions makes such a trade of dealing vntruelie that one would thinke sure he liues by lyeing And now I verilie persuade my selfe it is most true which a certaine ingenious Protestant sayd of the Puritans that they will rather affoord ten lyes then one oath In his verie firste wordes he affirmes that to admit traditions other constitutions of the Church is the firste article of the Roman Creed to which all Bishops Preists are sworne citing in the margen the Bull of Pius the fourth this is his first lye in this section but he will make sure it shall not be his last for he incontinentlie addeth two or three more one in the neck of another affirming that those obseruations constitutions of the Church which Pope Pius mentioneth are declared by the Councell of Trent to be those traditions which the Church receiueth with equall reuerence religious affection for so the knight insincerelie translates the wordes pari pietatis affectu as she receaues the holie scriptures Ego firma fide credo omnia singula qua contineÌ„tur in symbolo fidei c. Bul Pij 4. sup form iur prof fid adding more that heere was the firste alteration made touching the rule of faith with diuers other falsities too large to recount And yet if when he read the foresayd Bull he had not for hast scipped ouer the whole Creed which the Pope placeth in the verie firste part of the profession of faith showeing euen by that vnfaithfull tricke how little faith he hath I thinke he would neuer haue had the face to calumniate in this manner And if to speake in commendation of diuine Apostolicall traditions in that forme of speach which the Councell vseth were to make alteration in the rule of faith as the knight will haue it yet is it apparentlie false that the Tridentine Councell was the firste author of that
were by strong fauor of the secular power This is that in substance which Sir Hūfrey alledgeth out of Gerson yea an something more then he him self produceth And yet neuerthelesse as the reader may easily vnderstand there is nothing agreeable to the reformation of Luther and Caluin For Gerson onely reprehends and that iustely some particular persons in some particular countryes and in some particular obseruations which soe exactely and rigorously obserue theit rules lawes soe exorbitantly estreeme of them that they often tymes by indiscreet zeale are more diligent in performing them then they are in keeping the lawes of God and that they some tymes punish more seuerely a religious person offending against one of those monasticall rules or statutes or against one of the Popes preceps or lawes of the decretalls or others then they punish him whoe committeth adulterie or sacrilege Wher as those twoe false reformers Martin and Iohn were not content with this and to procure a reformation in some particular persons rules and statues but they tooke away all monasticall obseruations either of vowe rule or constitution and extingnissed all Ecclesiasticall lawes both of the Pope and Church as much as lay in their power violating euerting and razing the verie buildings of religious houses and consuming by fyre the bookes of the decretals and whole Canon lawes quyte destroying that and much more by rage and furie which Gerson out of a pious Christian zeale onely wished to haue amended Gerson complained of the euill life of fryres and nunnes with desire to haue them reformed and reduced to the obseruation of their ancient rules and constitutions onely excepting against the multiplicie and varietie of religious orders suntque per haec caelestia tonitruasublata prohibita damnata omnia istius generis vota penitissimè Lut. tom 2. fol. 272. But those companions in impietie Luther and Caluin would haue all religious and monasticall discipline wholely extingnished as Sacrilegious damnable and contrarie to the lawe of God vsing opprobrious speaches against all Religious persons their profession Gerson tooke to consideration whether the multitude and varietie of images might not be occasion of idolatrie in the simple people yet did not he reproue the due honor of them But our newe reformers or rather deformers either will haue no images at all in Churches as Caluinists or at the least they will not haue them honored with religious reuerence as Lutheranes reprouing all kinde of veneration or worship of them as superstitious and idolatrous Gerson onely reprehended the excesse as he apprehended in the canonization of soe manie newe saints the more religious obseruation of thers feastes then of the feastes of the Apostles by some particular persons or Churches but these twoe prophane fellowes allowe not of anie religious celebration of the feasts of either ancient or moderne saints neither of Apostles nor Euangelists neither of confessers nor martyres making account onely of the sabaoth day as they cōmonly call the sunday in that nature alsoe houlding the canonization of noe saints for either necessarie lawdable or authenticall desiring rather their memories should be extingiushed rhen reuerenced Gerson likewise comdemneth instely superstitions comitted by particular persons in the worship of saints vaine obseruations ouer great credulitie giuen by them to euerie passage recounted in some inauthentichall legendes yet admitting defending due moderate honor of saints the authentical true histories of their liues But our pretended reformers reiect all religious honor of Saintcts hould the relatiōs of their liues miracles for Apocriphall fabelous at the least of moderne saints Gerson defended the Roman doctrine of indulgences most Catholiquely as his treatice of that matter doth testifye Indulgentiarum cōcessio non est parui pendenda seu contemnenda sed amplectēda deuote in fide spe charitate Domini nostri Iesu Christi qui potestatem lium clauium Ecclesiasticarum dedit hominibus Gerson p. 2. act 23. and onely taxed some particular pardons of sinnes as he relates for saying soe manie pater nosters in such a Church before such an image calling them superstitious opiniōs and friuolous additions as hauing neuer ben approued by the Roman Church But our newe doctors masters Luther Caluin vtterly condemne all sortes of Indulgence graunted by the Pope yea and the power of the Church to graunte them Gersō speaking onely of some vitious Ecclesiastical persons reprehendes preists for that vnder the pretense of maydes they keepe cōcubines yet plainely supposing the lawe of Celibate or single life of cleargie to haue ben in vse in and before his tymes as a thing lawdable and fitting for their vocation quoniā assidue nostri sacerdotes sacris occupantur mysterijs quid diuinius quam vt continua polleant castitate Gers 2. part dialog de celib Act. 4 But those twoe luxurious imps the one a professed fryer the other a vowed priest according to their newe reformation teach it lawfull and laudable for preists not obstanding their vowes of chastitie to chāge the state of chastitie in to the state of mariage they being the first that gaue example of that sacrilegious action and leading the daunce them selues Gerson complaines that Cathedrall Churches are made dennes of theeues and consecrated monasteries markets Innes But by the followers of Luther and Caluin those holie cloysters are not onely made markets and Innes but euen stables and hogstyes Cathedrall Churches as it were common burses or exchanges for relation of newes and negotiations in which manifould iniustices and illicit contracts are plotted and accorded to the great profanation of the house of God ordained for onely prayer seruice and Sacrifyce soe that if Gerson were now aliue doubtlesse he would rather taxe the pretended reformers in this nature then those Catholique profaners of his owne tymes Gerson bids inquirie to be made if ther be not Apocryphall Scriptures and prayers introduced in the Church to the great preiudice of Christian faith not meaning of anie Scriptures or prayers approued for Canonicall and pious by the authoritie of the Roman Church as are the bookes of machibies Sapience Ecclesiasticus Tobie and Iudith and prayers to saints all which Gerson him selfe did receiue for such but he onely reprehendes such false Scriptures or prayers as some newfangled priuate persons had published and inuented with out warrant or authoritie of the prelates and gouernors of the Church But Luther Caluin and their schollers peremptoriely reiected and excluded out of the text and canon of seripture the forosayde bookes and some others as allsoe all manner of prayers to sainrs euen those prayers and kookes of scripture which had ben most anciently approued and read in the seruice of the vniuersall Church at the least since the tyme of Innocēt the first Pope of that name and soe vsed in the dayes of S. Augustin and euer since till the late dayes of Luther And now by this breefe collation or cōparision
and Emperours being so much more powerfull as they are knowen to bee then the Pope and Clergie should condescend to a matter of such indignitie as the knight would haue it and so much to their cost if they did not otherwise assure themselues both of the integrity of those who meete in those assemblies and also of the trueth of the doctrine in it selfe Besides that the same is manifestlie conuinced of falsitie for that prayer for the deade and consequentlie Purgatorie was knowen in the world before eyther Pope or Councells were extant as appeareth by the historie of the second booke of the Macchabies the 12. chapter which our aduersaries themselues cannot denie to be a true historie though they impudentlie denie it to be Canonicall Scripture against the plaine testimonie of S. Augustine who affirmeth the Church to hould it for such though the Iewes hold the contrarie Libros Machabeorum non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet Aug. l. 18. de Cuit Dei cap. 39. So that this is but an odious fiction of Sir Humfrey and his companion sectaries inuented by them in disgrace of the chiefe pastour of the Church and the rest of the Priests without eyther authoritie reason or sence accusing them as hinderers of reformation who labour most for it onelie because they refuse to admitte a reformation of their fashioning which indeede is no reformatiō but a deformatiō or defacing of the aunciēt Church an introductiō of a certaine new fantasticall Church most disfigured and vglie vniformiter difformiter deformis voyde of all luster beauty both internall and externall nor euer knowne or heard of before the dayes of Luther His second vntruth it in the end of the 39. page where he affirmeth that the Romanists in the psalters leaue out the second cōmaundemēt This secōd vntruth of the knight inuolueth a double vntruth the first is in that he saith the Romanists leaue out the foresaid commaūdement in their psalters whereas it is well knowne that in the whole Psalter the second cōmaundemēt is not to be foūd at the least formally as it is one of the ten But this vntruth because I perceiue it proceedes rather of ignorāce thē malice I am cōtent to pardon Yet because when he said the Romanists lefte it out of their psalters he either meant they lefte it out of the text of Scripture or that they left it out of their catechismes onely I āswer that whethersoeuer he meant he cānot be excused for telling an vntruth first because he falsely supposeth for certaine that to be the second commaundement which indeede is but an explication of the first in the opinion both of S. Augustine and either all or almost all other diuines of later yeares Secondly because those same authours who hould those same wordes Thou shalt not make to this selfe any grauen image to be the second commandemēt doe not hould that the Images of Christ and his saints and due honour of thē are prohibited by that precept among Christians but onely a gentilicall or idolatrous vse of pictures or grauen images of false Gods and other such abuses as be repugnant to the due honour of the true and onely God Lastly it is also false that all Catechismes leaue out that precept if precept it be as appeareth by the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent and of Canisius and some others So that you see now that the knight is euery way conuinced of an vntruth And although it is true that in diuerse of their Catechismes the Romanists leaue out all the rest of the first commaundement as they lie in the text of the 20. of Exodus excepting those Thou shall haue no other Gods but me Yet they doe not so with any sinister intention as the reformers vniunstly accuse them to doe in regard it is well knowne that those who vse to instruct children in their Catechisme notwithstanding they vse not to fill childrens heads with such proclamations against grauē Images as the reformers doe yet they neuer omitte to declare and explicate exactly the whole tenour of the words of the commaundement inculcating most diligently the true sense of the same and teaching them how farre it is true that images and the worshippe of them in prohibited by that precept the difference betweene the vse of Christian images and those which according to the practice of those times were vnlawfull But the true reason why Romanists most commonly omitte those wordes Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen thing and the rest is because Catechismes being onely a short summe of Religion it is fitting they be most briefe and compendious as being so more easy to learne and more conformable to the capacity of children then if they were large and prolixe in wordes especially considering that that which wanteth in wordes may farre more easily be added by the master by may of cxplication then many lines can be cōmitted to memory by weake and vnapt schollers Neither doe the Romanists make catechismes for Iewes and Gentiles but for Christians and Catholiks and so it were both superfluous and impertitinent to put in all the wordes of the text or more as the reformers doe some of which doe belong rather to the law of moyses then to the Ghospell of Iesus Christ and therefore for the verie same reason the Romanists leaue out of their Catechismes diuerse words of the precept of the Sabaoth as iudging them vnnecessarie for the instruction of Christian children As also because according to the doctrine of S. Augustin in his question vpon this commaundement those onely words Vide illum infra in fine op Thou shalt haue no other Gods but me are the whole substance of the first commaundement and the same in sense with the other which immediatly follow in the text to wit thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen thing by which grauen thing S. Augustin in the same place vnderstandeth an idol not any grauen image as the reformers doe corruptedly vse to translate and commonly put it so in their Catechismes for the false instruction of their children And hence it plainely appeareth that the Romanists leaue not out of any of their bookes of Christian doctrine anie of the ten commandements but rather that the reformed brothers put in one more then either according to Scripture or the doctrine of S. Augustin they ought to doe as by the true diuision and number of them at the end of this worke shall the be more manifestly declared Thirdly it is vntrue which he affirmeth though by way of insinuatiō onely that the Romanists doe adore a piece of bread For it is well knowne they adore not the bread but that which christ himselfe affirmed to be his body for which adoration besides the scripture we say with S. Augustin nemo illam carnem manducat nisi prius adorauerit Aug. in ps 98. and so this though Sir Humfrey as it seemes was ashamed to vtter it plainely yet it
fathers of the primatiue Church so the knight by which discourse you may easilie perceiue euen by his owne wordes and the if which he maketh that all which he hath hitherto said hath no greater warrant then his owne suretie which although his authoritie and credit were farre greater then either we haue found it to be or it can be in it selfe yet were it not safe for anie man to relie vpon it but rather to hould it for verie vncertaine and fayleable Especiallie considering that all which he hath produced in proofe of the same are either meere trifles or at the most verie poore arguments grounded vpon false suppositions yea and vpon plaine vntrueths falsifications and corruptions both of scripture and fathers and so partlie through ignorance and partlie through malice he hath shewed himselfe a most partiall and false Herold And now altho' this might suffice for the censure of the section insuing because it pertaineth to the same subiect yet least the knigth should grūble I will a forde it a Period a parte THE VII PERIOD IN his eight section therefore Sir Humfrey promiseth to produce testimonies of his aduersaries touching the antiquitie and vniuersalitie of the Protestant faith in generall So he proceedeth in the title To which he addeth by way of asseueration that if the Roman Church doth not confesse that the reformers are both in the more certaine and Safer waye in the Protestant Church I will saith he neither refuse the name nor the punishment due to heresie Heere we see the knight is as free in his promises as euer he was let vs therefore examen how he performeth them for if he doth not he cannot escape either the name of an heretike or at the least the desert of punishment itselfe euen in this mortall life Hee beginneth thus He that shall question vs where our Church was before Luther let him looke back to the Primatiue Church nay let him but looke into the bosome of the present Roman Church and he shall finde that if euer antiquitie and vniuersallitie were markes of the true Church of right and necessitie they must belong to ours So Sir Humfrey In which wordes as it were by way of generall assertion he briefelie declareth the antiquitie and vniuersalitie of his Church to be found both in the Primatiue Church and also in the present Roman Church in which assertion there being two partes and that no small ones the first he endeauoureth to proue by shewing a conformitie betwene the doctrine of the Church of England with that of the Primatiue Church and descending to particulars he tells vs that his Church teacheth and beleeueth the same three Creedes which were instituted by the Apostles and the Fathers of the Primatiue Church and not created by Luther as also two of the seauen Sacraments which were saith he by the confession of our aduersaries instituted by Christ The same he affirmeth of 22. bookes of Canonicall Scripture which he saith were vniuersallie receiued in all ages Likewise of the seuen generall Councells he affirmeth that foure of them were ratified by the Cannons of the Church of England and confirmed by act of parliament and thus he runneth through the points of doctrine and faith in which they and we agree adding to them the confession of his aduersaries And yet in all his large rehearsall of points of faith he maketh no mention of eyther those in which the Romanists and reformers disagree nor of those new articles of the English Creede which dissent from the doctrine of the Primatiue Church and which indeede are those that make the reformers guiltie of heresie as its the doctrine of Iustification by faith onelie the deniall of the reall presence and such like But craftilie leauing them out as if they were not to the purpose he treateth whereas in trueth by reason of these new errours obstinatelie defended by them there can be no vniuersalitie nor antiquitie in their Church notwithstanding they had neuer so great conformitie both to the auncient primatiue and moderne Roman Church in all the rest of their beleefe Especiallie supposing that anie one errour in matter of faith obstinatelie defended is sufficient to take away all true antiquitie and vniuersallitie of anie Church or congregation whatsoeuer as euen the reformers themselues as I suppose cannot denie for that as the scripture affirmeth that he who offends in one thing is made guiltie of all the rest so he that in one onelie poynt of faith houldeth contrarie to the most vniuersall and auncient Church maketh himselfe presentlie guiltie of want or defect both of vniuersalitie and antiquitie in his beleefe For as Saint Nazianzene saith to this purpose in his 37. oration towards the end the articles of faith are like to a gould chaine from which if you take away anie one link as Saint Ambrose saith Ad cap. 9. Lucae lib. 6. in fine you take away your saluation vnum horum saith he si detraxeris tetraxisti salutem tuam And so we see that the knight by reason he omitteth in his discourse that part vpon which the verie medium of his argument chiefelie or at the least greatelie depended his proofe of antiquitie and vniuersality in his Church falleth to the groūd But besides this defect he fayleth also in that he saith he beleeueth the three Creedes instituted by the Apostles and Primatiue Fathers of the Church For either he meanes that those three Creedes do sufficientlie conteyne all that he is bound to beleeue or no. If the first he meaneth then what will become of his solifidian iustification and of the 39. articles of the English faith the greater parte of which is not to be found in those Creedes If he meanes the second then doth he ill in leauing those particulars out in the rehearsall of his faith Nay more then this for if matters were well examined I doubt not but the knight notwithstanding the protestatiō of his faith of the three Creeds yet he would be founde holting in the true generally receiued or Catholike sēse of diuers of the same as that of the perpetuall virginity of the mother of God in that of the descēt of Christ in to hell of the Catholike Church the cōmunion of Saincts remission of sinnes and the like I say of the doctrine of the 4. first Generall Councels and of the Sacraments in which particulars our aduersaries vnderpresēce of reformatiō maintaine diuers deformed errours specified and confuted by diuines of the Roman Church Moreouer the knight is also defectiue in the proofe of the antiquitie and vniuersalitie of his faith and doth egregiously equiuocate in that he saith that two of the Sacraments which the Church of Rome houldeth are professed by the reformers and confessed by their aduersaries to haue beene instituted by Christ not broached by Luther This I say is equiuocall and doth not prooue his intent for although it neither is nor can be denied but ingenuously confessed by the Roman Church that there are two
the whole miserere Psalme and crying out with an amplius laua for a perpetuall testimony of the same And now supposing as I say all this the doctrine practice of Indulgēces now vsed by the cheefe Pastours of the Roman Church is so well groūded that except onely in those in whom obstinacie reigneth more then reason it admitteth no trergiuersation in the credibilitie and faith of it For as God is infinitly not onely iust but also mercifull in himselfe by essēce so hath he cōmunicated to the gouernours of his church a kind of participatiue mixture of both those attributes betweene which according to that of the psalme iustitia pax osculatae sunt he hath made a most louing league to the end that according to diuers causes and occasions his spirituall officers may so vse them in earth as the vse may be approued in Heauen sometimes vsing rigour of discipline for the satisfaction of Gods iustice other times lenity for the exercise of his mercy But now touching the confirmation of this doctrine by the authority of Fathers I will onely produce the testimonies of Tertull. and S. Cyprian who being both so ancient as they are knowne to be they may iustely serue for sufficient witnesses of the ancient practice of the same in those primatiue times Tertullian therefore in his booke to the Martirs and first chapter speaketh of the remission of the paine due to sinnes which the Bishops gaue vnto the sinners either at the petition of martyrs or for other causes calling it by the name of peace Which peace faith he some that haue it not in the Church are accustomed to aske it of the martyrs in prision and therefore you also meaning the Bishops ought for that cause to haue norish and keepe it in your selues to the end that if perhaps you may communicate it to others where Tertullian by the worde peace vnderstandes the Bishops absolution at the least frome some parte of the sinners pennance by application of the superabundant satisfactions of the martyrs which application is also in the worde peace included as manifestly may be gathered out of the same Tertullian who afterwardes falling in to heresie in his 22. chap. of his booke of chastitie recalled that which he had tought before to wit that indult could not be giuen to those that had fallen at the petition of the martyrs because saith he now turned Heretike there remaine no satisfactions of martyrs which satisfactions hee calleth oleum faculae which can suffice for themselues others All which as the reader may clearelie perceiue is nothing els in substance but such an Indulgence as is now practiced by the Bishops of Rome of whome and others by their comission the foresayd authour doth speake in the place rehearsed And the same saith S. Cyprian in his last Sermon de lapsis saith paenitenti operanti roganti potest clementer ignoscere potest in acceptum referre quicquid pro talibus petierint martyres fecerint Sacerdotes To the working or laboring penitent the Bishop of whome he speaketh as I suppose may clemently pardon accept as receiued whatsoeuer the martyrs demaunde the Preists doe or performe And the like the same S. Cyp. hath l. 3. epist 15. or 11. I omit Sainct Gregorie whome yet both S. Thom. and Atisiodorus his predecessour testifie to haue graunted Indulgences in forme which altho' it is not founde in his workes now extant yet it is farre more credible and certaine that those two authours would not haue vsed that testimonie with out infalible grounde that it was S. Gregories then that it was feigned because kemnitius and other nouellists reiect it as suppositious And if they will not admit of this testimonie because they see it not At the least they must of necessitie admit of that which being yet more auncient is to be seeme in the Chappell of S. Crosse of Hierusalem in Rome written in legible letters that S. Siluester who was Bishop Pope aboue 1200. years paste did consecrate that Chappell and adorne it with maine reliquies of saints and indulted diuers perdons to the visiters of it I could alsoe cite the Popes which since the time of S. Greg. in seuerall ages haue very frequentlie graunted Indulgences but because I knowe our presumptuous aduersaries contemne their authority tho' iniustlie for that they haue ben of as great authoritie as their anticessours I will saue the labour and onely aduertice the reader that ther is farre greater reason for a prudent man to giue credit vnto them in the affirmatiue of this question then there is to rely vpon the authoritie of the sectaries for the negation in regard that euen by their owne confession the affirmatiue hath ben tought and practiced publikelie in the Christian world at the least for the space of 400. years euen according to Kemnitius who tho' most falsely for that it may be proued That Leo the third who liued in the 8. or 9. hundreth yeare gaue pardons according to the manner of those our times affirmeth that Indulgences began aboute the yeare 1200. who neuertelesse on the contrary contradicting himselfe graunteth that the first denyers of the same were the Waldenses a company of pore ignorant beggarlie fellowes From whence we may inferre how impudentlie the kinght affirmeth antiquitie vniuersalitie in his owne Church for the denyall of Indulgences yet dinying the same in the Church of Rome for her defence of them supposing he could not produce as much as one authour either more or lesse auncient for the negatiue parte liuing before the pore men of lions who hauing no other saint for their founder then one waldo a verie idiot appeared aboute the yeare of our Lord 1170. that is manie hundreths of yeares after Indulgences had beene practized in the Christian world euen according to the forme now vsed It is true Sir Humfrey alledgeth diuers Roman diuines as he vseth to doe but it is but a meere shift he vseth to colour his position as being destitute of all other auncient authoritie proofe For I haue examined those authours I finde there is not one of them which is not a zelous defender both of the power which Christ gaue vnto the Church to graunt Indulgences also of the lawfullnes profit of them nor doth anie one of them confesse the want of antiquitie consent of the same but some of them onelie confesse indeed there is no certainetie of their beginning or when the vse of them came into the Church in the manner they are now vsed To which purpose the testimonie cited out of B. Fisher may seeme to serue who yet doth not say as the knight falselie relates that it is not sufficientlie manifest from whome Indulgences had their Originall but he onelie sayth non certo constare a quo primum tradi caeperunt that it is not certainelie apparent who first began to giue them And altho' that author hath the rest of the wordes which Sir Humfrey
vniuersall Church of the worlde proposeth vnto them as doctrine to be receiued beleeued or practized by all faithfull Christians And as S. Augustin in the 41. of his fiftie homilies saith Whosoeuer is separated frome the Catholique Church that is to say that Church which spred in ouer the whole worlde as he specifieth in the precedent wordes how laudably soeuer he thinkes he liueth for that onely sinne that he is diuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not obteine life eternall but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him In which wordes as the reader may see according to the sentence of S. Augustin separation from the obedience of the vniuersall Church is sufficient to bring the curse vpon anie man notobstanding in other respects he liueth neuer so virtuously And according to this the Romanists may bouldly say they are accursed whoe deny all merit in workes proceeding from the grace of God Scr. 68. in Cant. they blessed with Sainct Bernard whom Caluin himselfe calleth a holye pious man that affirme with him that it is a pernicious prouertie to want merits yet especially at the houre of their death for humilitie with the same S. Bernard put all their confidence in the mercy of God that which the Romanists doe much more then the reformers notobstanding their defence of meritorious workes They are accursed whoe otherwise then Christ tought or affirmed teach affirme it vnlawfull for the laitye to communicate in one kynde And they blessed whoe with Christ his Church take it for a thing indifferent of it selfe to receiue in one or both kyndes stand to the ordināce of the most vniuersall Church without contention according to the difference of times places persons They are accursed whoe being vnlearned read scriptures interpret them falsely for the maintenance of their errours according to that of S. Peter saying Epist 2. c. 3. ther are certaine places in S. Paules Epistles which the vnlearned depraue to their owne perdition but blessed are they whoe read them as the Eunuch did that is with a S. Philipe I meane with one to shewe them the true sense as S. Basil his brother Nazianzene did Lib. 11. cap. 9. whoe according to Rufinus read the scriptures following the sense of them not according to their owne presumption but according to the writinges of their predecessours notwithstanding they were both verie famous renowned in learning They are accursed whoe either prohibit mariage or meates as ill in them selues as some ancient heretikes did or absteine not frome them both at such times in such cases as God his Church ordaineth them to absteine And they are blessed whoe according to the order of the Church directed by the spirit of God remaine with S. Paule vnmaried refaine from eating flesh at such times as the same Church appointeth Those are accursed for contemning of Christ in his Church whoe contrary to her appointmēt doe schismatically administer the publike seruice Sacraments in the vulgar tongue erroneously defending the same to be commaunded by the scriptures blessed are those whoe for reuerence to the holy scriptures conseruation of the dignity of the diuine offices other iust reasons hould it fitting to administer publike seruice Sacraments in a language most common to all nations to wit in the Latin tongue They are accursed whoe loue Christ his Saints so little as they accounte it idolatrie contrary to the scriptures to honore their images notobstāding ther is no place of scripture truly interpreted to be founde against them those are blessed according to the same scriptures whoe to shewe their exterordinarie affection to Christ duely reuerence both the images of him his blessed seruants They are accursed that refuse either to adore Christs bodie whersoeuer he affirmeth it to bee or account it idolatrie or superstition to honore the Saints who he him selfe saith he honoreth with a crowne of glorie blessed are they that performe his pleasure in both by adoring his pretious bodie blood in the sacrament by honoring his Saints in Heauen where he doth honour them as his seruants freinds Si quis mihi ministrauerit honorificabit eum Pater meus c. They are accursed who contrary to scripture reiect such ancient traditions as the most vniuersall Church approueth blessed are those who with due obedience obserue the same Accursed are they who reiect charitie frome the formall cause of iustification Maior autem horum est charitas 1. Cor. 13. which notobstanding according to the Apostle is greater then either hope or faith blessed are they who admit it in iustification as well as faith preferre it before faith with the same Apostle Accursed are they that by denying with the Iewes the bookes of the Machabies to be Canonicall scriptures denie Purgatory prayer for the soules departed blessed are they who with the Church S. Augustin hould the foresayd bookes for canonicall scripture say with him it is an vndoubted thing that prayer doth profit the dead Non dubiū est oration prodesse defunctis Aug. de cura pro mort c. 1. And in this māner if need were I could passe throu ' all the rest of the points of controuerted doctrine easily showe the curse to fall vpon the misreformed brothers for their obstinacie disobedience to God his Church Sir Humfrey would faine seeme to beare a charitable minde towardes the Romanists in regarde he saith he dares not pronounce damnation vpon their persons and yet he proclaimeth confidently opēly to the whole world that their doctrine is damnable to which it is necessarily consequent that all such as die obstinately in it are directly damned so if Sir Hūfrey proceeds cōsequenter to this his tenet he must necessity iudge the same of at the least in generall of those which dye in the foresaid obstinate manner with out inuincible ignorance end their liues in it But if this be that which he calls greater charitie them Romanists haue all the fauour he doth vs we thanke him not for it such charitie he may better reserue to himselfe his brothers who in my opiniō haue no more thē they can spare And if this be all the difference which can be foūde betwixt the proceeding of the Romanists the reformers in this particular then I say that notwithstanding Sir Humfrey much laboureth to make his reader beleeue that he his reformed brothers are more charitable thē the Romanists in iudging of the state of the soules of such as departe in each religion neuerthelesse it is manifest he quite faileth of his intent supposing that the Romanists doe not vse to iudge but rather suspend their iudgment of particular persons except they haue some speciall reasons prudently morally to persuade themselues that this or that partie died in actuall obstinacie defence of his erroneous faith otherwise
difficult questions nor yet could you haue so inconstantlie hallucinated as to affirme in one place that the text of scripture is the sole Iudge expounder of itselfe indefinitlie without liâ—itation yet on the contrarie in another place that you doe not denie the authoritie of the Fathers iointlie agreing in the exposition of them in matters of faith yet further that the same Fathers referred the meaning of the scriptures to the author of them as if the holie Ghost were bound to appeere visiblie to deliuer the true sense of them as often as anie controuersie of faith occurreth All which the like disparates the vertiginous knight vttereth within the compasse of this one section also further accusing the Romanists that they make themselues Iudges plaintiffes in their owne cause wheras indeed the Romanists neyther make themselues but the euer visible continueing Church Iudge of their cause nor doe they hould theÌ„selues for plaintiffes but for defendants faithfull possessors of that doctrine which as it were by inheritance they receiued from their auncestors And here I request the reader to reflect how disconformably the knight discourseth to his owne receiued Principle touching the interpretation sense of scriptures of which he his brothers make euerie priuate person man or woman Iudge vmpier yet condemnes for vnreasonable that the Roman Church should vse the like authoritie euen when it is publikelie assembled in a generall Councell So that these all those a foresaid particulars deliuered by our aduersarie touching this point are but onelie his owne fancyes of which he makes vse for want of better materialls to patch vp this part of his by path in which as you see he continueth his peripateticall exercise euen to the next section Sec. 4. In which it being the fourth in Order he prosecuteth the same matter telling his reader that the Romanists tho' they pretend otherwise yet they make themselues sole Iudges interpreters of scripture thus the knight fableth of whom I tknowe I may iustlie say with the Poet mutato nomine de te fabula narratur And in reallitie of whome I pray can this be so trulie verified as of those who notobstanding that vnder a false colour that euen in cases of doubt controuersie they ingenuouslie professe that scriptures must be interpreted by themselues onelie Vid. ChaÌ„ Panstrat I. de inten scrip yet neuerthelesse doe most pertinaciouslie maintaine that the exposition of them belongs to euerie member of their Church in particular that the spirit of interpretation is as common to one as to another for what is this but to make themselues sole Iudges interpreters of the scripture not the scripture itselfe as they deceitfullie pretend Let the indifferent reader be Iudge of this It is true the Councell of Trent doth decree that none expound the scriptures contrarie to the vniforme consent of Fathers yea Pius Quintus doth also declare in his Bull of the profession of faith that such as are preferred to dignities places of care of soules take an oath of the same but as they take the oath so doe they performe also the obligation of it And I demand of Sir Humfrey who hath such a great talent in reprehending whether he thinkes not in his conscience that those who vnder the strict boÌ„d of oath are obliged to anie matter are not more like to performe it then those who haue no such obligation whereby to restraine their actions surelie there is a great difference in the circumstances consequentlie a great reason to iudge that those Romanists who haue such an oath obliging them to followe the consent of Fathers in their interpretations of scripture will be farre more carefull to performe the same then the reformed Doctours who haue no such bridle to refraine the inclination to noueltie of their itching witts Now wheras Sir Humfrey after his ordinary cauilling manner doth say that if the Romane Church can make good the vniforme consent of Fathers for their twelue new articles of faith he will listen to their interpretation preferre it before any priuate or later exposition this I say is a meere sophisme in regard that the Roman Church doth not teach as he ignorantly mistakes that he who interpreteth scriptures must haue positiuely the vniforme consent of Fathers for his expositions but onely that he must not wittingly expound any place of scripture in matters of moment especially in faith manners contrary to the whole torrent of the same Fathers the which because the kinght did not rightly vnderstand as it seemes when he read the Concell the Bull of Pius he abuseth Caietane Canus Andradius Bellarmine Baronius other moderne Romanists as if they had contradicted the foresaid decree wheras yet one of them to wit Caietan writ before it was established the rest being knowne for notorius defenders of it so running vppon false grownes the wandering knight passeth forward citing among Romanists some of his consorts building his By-way to omitt others of lesse moment diuerse scurrilous scoffes touching the application of scriptures by the Romanists notobstanding it s well knowne he his companions are much more guilty in that kinde with two notorious vntruthes affirming that all the pristes Iesuites are sworne not to receaue interpret scriptures but according to the vniforme consent of Fathers that it is an article of the Roman faith so to doe all which needes no further examen in regard that to any iuditious reader these two particulars onely will be sufficient to acquaint him which the rest of the authors iugling trickes which he vseth in this part of his by-way which being voyde of substantiall matter it suteth best to him that made it but agreeth nothing to the Catholike RomaÌ„ faith â—ect 5. In the fifth section he handleth his Canon of scriptures which he promiseth to proue by pregnant testimonies of all ages that it is the same which learned Doctors professors intirely preserued in the besome of the Roman Church in all ages I haue treated of this in parte in my former Censure to which I adde returning that Sir Humfrey saith of Campion vppon himself which is that if this Nouellist had binne as reall in his proofes as he is prodigall in his promisses he had gome beyond all the reformed proselites sinces the daies of Luther for neuer man made greater florishes with proorer proofes all that he bringeth being founded vppon the same equiuocation which he vsed in his safe way consisting of this proposition the Fathers of euery age haue acknowledged the 22. bookes of scripture which the reformed Churches hold for Canonicall to be the true Canon no other For it is true the Fathers of all ages receiued from Christe his Apostles those same bookes acknowledging them for Canonicall but it is false that the same fathers in all ages held no other for Canonicall of which truth particular instance
is but onelie one in which it can be sayd with anie coulourable probabilitie that sainct Gregorie in anie of the places heere cited doth contradict the doctrine of the Roman Church that is the point of the Canon of the scriptures in which patricular althou ' he refused to giue the bookes of Machabees the title of Canonicall scripture as yet S. Augustine others did before him the rest of the writers for the most parte euer since haue donne whether it were because he ment onelie they were not contained in the Canon of the Iewes or for that the whole Church had not then declared them for Canonicall vnder that name Neuerthelesse he is not to be iudged more repugnant to the doctrine of the present Roman Church in that point then those who notobstanding that in the primitiue Church certaine bookes of the new Testament as the epistle to the Hebrewes others were doubted of yet now with infallible certaintie faith receaue them for diuine sacred scripture althou ' they were not accounted beleiued for such by all the orthodoxall Fathers of the Church in all former ages since the time of the Apostles who firste published them to the world Especiallie considering that the same sainct Gregorie neuer denyed neyther in the place cited nor in anie other of his workes but that as the declaration of the Church was sufficient to assure all faithfull people that those bookes of which before his dayes there had binne doubt were then trulie Canonicall scripture thou ' not knowne for such in euerie age before him so might the same succeeding Church in later times determine the like of those bookes which in his time so generallie vndoubtedlie were not as yet held for such Neyther according to the rules of diuinitie can that man be reputed not to be of the same religion of which another is because he now beleaueth some thing more in the materiall obiect of faith then the other did in that time in which he liued but at the most it can onelie be truelie verified that he hath the same habit of faith thou ' some what more extended in the obiect as neyther the Apostles were of a diuerse faith when they were firste instructed by Christe before his passion from that they had after his resurrection when yet doubtlesse they receaued more expresse extensiue knowledge in matters of faith then before they had receiued And sure I am S. Gregorie without exception cites both the booke of Tobie Ecclesiasticus sapience most frequentlie none of which bookes neuerthelesse the misreformers admit for the worde of God And till Sir Humfrey or some of his associates can produce out of S. Augustin S. Gregorie as plaine pregnant places either for his owne tenets or against the Roman doctrine as the Romanists haue long since produced for theirs as their workes vpon euerie seuerall controuersie make apparent let them for shame neuer claime them for theirs in anie one point of controuersie for notobstanding they make a plausible vse of some fewe patches of their more ambiguous ill construed ill related sentences yet turne but the iudicious vnpartiall reader to the bookes them selues he will ingenuouslie confesse absolutelie crye a loud all is ours And if it would please his maiestie of his royall clemencie to suffer vs freelie to make tryall of our cause by scripture Fathers I knowe which side would be founde minus habens manie graines to light But it is our great miserie yet in one sense our great happines to be so crossed curbed with seueritie of tēporal lawes that we cannot be safe in the most priuate corners much lesse can we appeare in any publike assemblie for defense of our Religion Vid. Bell. in quatuor Cōtr. tom valēt Anales fid But yet supposing that S. Gregorie had binne contrarie in that particular of the bookes of Machabies for touching the rest mentioned by the knight he is sufficientlie cleered from that imputation by Bellarmine other Romanists yet could it not possiblie proue that monstrous great proposition of our aduersarie to wit that S. Gregorie in his vndoubted writings directlie opposeth the Romish faith in the maine pointes thereof consequentlie from hence it manifestlie appeereth how farre Sir Humfrey hath walked by the way when in the end of his eleauenth section he auouched his reader should plainlie discerne how the later Popes Bishops doe differ from the former how these two Fathers of the Church meaning sainct Augustine sainct Gregorie concurre expresselie with the doctrine professed in the reformed Churches different from the Roman it being most apparent by the premisses that by anie thing which he hath heere produced out of the foresayd Fathers he hath neyther proued anie one point of his owne religiō nor disproued ours but hath onelie prestigiouslie deluded the eyes of the reader with a coulorable florish yet in realitie remaineth still in the same byway in which he hath hitherto walked separate from the royall street of the ancient Doctors of the primitiue Church Sec. 14. The next section being the fourteenth is that the ingenuous Romanists confesse that the Councells which they oppose against the Reformers were neyther called by lawfull authoritie nor to the right ends Heere I finde that to be most true which a pleasant Protestant pronounceth of the Puritans sayeing their religion willinglie admitts no founder but Bragger they flourished much about a time And in sober sadnes the best Sir Humfrey can make of his aduersaries confession throu ' out his whole worke in fauour of his doctrine doth nothing more then plainlie conuince him to be of no other progenie Neyther doe their confessions fit his purpose anie better then if he should put his shooes vpon his handes or his hose vpon his head A patterne of this you may see in this verie section in which how soeuer he vaunteth of the confession of his aduersaries that by two principall conditions as he sayth ancientlie in vse for the authoritie of Councells are both acknowledged to be abrogated by later Councells to wit because quoth the knight now a dayes the Pope calls Councells without right he his assemble them in their owne name for their owne ends for proofe of which calumnious position he cites but onely two authors those scarce held for sound mettle among the Romanists neyther yet doth eyther of them plainlie auerre his position as it is vttered by him but they onelie speake by way of reprehension of such abuses as might be practised in that nature by the malice of men without taxing the Pope or anie other in particular as the knight would maliciouslie inferre out of their wordes for the confirmation of the sinister opinion he hath of the Church of Rome her head in earth The rest which he hath in this section is but eyther his owne bare assertions those not true as that from
annumerare eos qui ab Apostolis instituti sunt Episcopi in Ecclesijs successores eorum vsque ad nos qui nihil tale docuerunt neque cognouerunt quale ab his deliratur By which wordes it is manifest that S. Irenaeus doth confute his aduersaries the heretikes not by scripture onely but alsoe cheefely by traditionarie authoritie of the Bishops succeeding frome the Apostles which is directly opposite to the tenets especially of the purer sorte of nouellists whoe neither admitte traditions nor Episcopall authoritie but the onely written worde for absolute and sole Iudge of all Controuersies confutation of heresies Caietan in his Commentarie vpon the historian bookes of the old Testament as I am persuaded doth not plainely affirme neither doth Canus charge him with that error that the bookes of Machabies are not absolutely Canonicall as Sir Humfrey alledgeth but he onely reprehendeth him for vsing a vaine distinction of Canonicall scriptures as if there were some Canonicall onely for instruction of manners and not for matters of faith against the infirmitie or vnsoundnesse of which distinction Canus vseth this reprehensiue conclusion saying Cum sub eodem contextu omnes illi libri nullo facto discrimine definiantur esse Canonici scilicet Ecclesiasticus Sapientia Tobias Iudith Machabaeorū libri duo Baruch ridiculum est vt partim in vna significatione partim in alia libros Cenonicos habeamus Ac si hāc semel distinctionem admittimus authoritate Conciliorum atque Pontificum nullus liber Sacer constare poterit And presently after Id quoniam absurdum omnino est retineamus potius eam rationem oportet quam Caietanus voluit evertere vir vt saepe iam dixi cum primis eruditus pius sed qui in libris Canonicis constituendis Erasmi nouitates ingeniumque secutus dum alienis vestigijs voluit insistere propriam gloriam maculauit And soe you see Canus doth not confesse that directly Caietan maintained the Machabies not to be Canonicall but onely with that distinction neither did in deed Caietan more denye the authoritie of those bookes then he did the Epistle to the Haebrewes that of S. Iames which neuerthelesse he held absolutely for Canonicall tho' not perhaps in the same rigorous sense in which he iudged all the rest of the bookes of scripture to be in the Canon by reason those as alsoe some other partes of scripture haue ben by some ancient authors doubted of in which doubt onely he seemeth to founde his distinction Touching the Canonicall bookes of the olde Testament Sir Humfrey doth most falsely alledge the authoritie of S. Isidore persuading his reader that he reiecteth those same bookes which he and his companions in the newe religion condemne for Apochripha Weras in deed that ancient author numbereth them all in the Christiā Canon And to the end the knights impudencie may more plainely appeare I will rehearse S. Isidores expresse wordes concerning the same whoe in his 6. booke of origenes or etymologies saith thus Quartus est apud nos ordo veteris Testamenti eorum librorum qui in Canone Haebreo non sunt quorum primus sapientiae liber est Secundus Ecclesiasticus Tertius Tobias Quartus Judith Quintus Sextus Machaboeorum Quos licet Haebraei inter Apochrypha separent Ecclesia tamen Christi inter diuinos libros honorat praedicat By which wordes it is soe euident that this holie Father standes for the Romanists and against the pretensiue reformers in this point that I much maruell how Sir Humfrey could haue the face to produce him in fauor of his cause Nay more then this out of the distinction which he maketh betweene the the Hebrewes vs Christians in receiuing the foresaid bookes for Canonicall I frame a firme coniecture that either all or most of these ancient authors whoe seeme to exexclude them out of the Canon doe onely intend to declare that they were not included in it by the Iewes as S. Hilarie S. Hierome S. Epiphanius other authors concerning which point the reader may please to reade the same S. Isidore in lib. Prooemiorum de libris veteris noui Testamenti In the 431. page of his by-way the kinght abuseth Canus whome he there cites lib. 12. cap. 13. For he foysteth in by a parenthesis of his owne the worde reall which neither Canus hath nor yet putteth the force of his reprehension of the bishop of Bitont in that he affirmed in the Councell of Trent that Christ did not offer his reall bodie in his last supper but because he affirmed that Christ did not offer his owne bodie absolutely abstracting frō reall or not reall the question not being in that passage of the reall presence but of the Sacrifice of Christs bodie bloud in the Eucharist which as it seemes by Canus relation the foresaid Bishop in the discussion of this point by way of proposition was of that priuate dictamen how beit after wardes he willingly conformed him selfe to the rest of the Fathers to the decree of the Councell By which it is plaine that this Bishop was not of anie firme setled opinion which might fauor Sir Humfreys doctrine in that particular Illud primum animaduerto iure Cornelium Episcopum Bitontinum in Conelio apud Tridentinum à Patribus Theologis vniuersis explosum qui dixerit Christum in Coena non suum corpus sanguinem obtulisse Canus loco citato And soe you see this is one of Sir Humfreyes prittie pettie trickes which omong other greater will serue to replenish his pages The kinght alsoe in his 157. page of his deuia corrupteth the same author cited in his third booke third chapter Where for these wordes in sacrificio Eucharistiae simul cum corpore sanguinem sacerdotibus esse conficiendum sumendum c. Sacrae litterae nusquam forte tradiderunt he translates the consecrating receiuing of ehe bodie bloud of Christ by the preist c. Are nowhere happily to be found in scripture In which passage the attentiue reader may easily see that the knight plaieth the iugler most nimblely For wheras Canus putteth the force of his sentence in the wordes simul together or at once in the other worde sumendum making an hipotheticall proposition of all his wordes ioyned togither our craftie Circulator soe hādleth the matter that his reader may imagin that Canus affirmed that the consecration of the Eucharist according to the custome of the Roman Church is not found in the bible That which that author neuer dreamed but onely intended to produce as an instance of Apostolicall traditions that copulatiue of the practice of the preists consecrating actuall receiuing both the bodie bloud at one the same tyme in the vse of the Eucharist which Canus supposeth rather to be a tradition then expressely contained in the text of scripture More ouer Sir Humfrey cites Gretzerus but onely twise first in his defense of the tenth
not conceiue so basely as once to imagin they will be dangerouslie enamored with his booke but I will cheefelie offer it to the more vulgar ranke of people who by reason of their smaler tallents may more easely be circumuented whom if by conferring the one booke with the other I shall vnderstand they come to be right informed of the trueth I shall hould my selfe sufficientlie rewarded by them as by those whose wauering mindes I onely intend to rectifie by my labors which otherwise for anie matter of substance I finde in the booke I professe I should neuer haue esteemed it worth the paines I haue taken in the confutation of it A TABLE OF THE CONTENTS PERIOD 1. THE proceeding of the Roman Church with the sectaries clered defended from the iniurious impositions of the aduersarie Father Campian other authors ill alledged Where likewise the Romanists are freed from all cause of contention betweene themselues the pretended reformers who are truelie the cause of all dissention in the Church by there Preposterous pretended reformation PERIOD 2. Neyther are there any corruptions in either faith or generally approued manners in the Roman Church Nor anie want of care zeale in the Popes in procuring all necessarie reformation in the Church But the aduersaries abuse of the Councels of Trent Pisa his lyes equiuocations discouered His calumniations against Purgatorie indulgences prayer to Saints reproued PERIOD 3. No true Romanist euer renounced Poperie either in his life or at his death yet some formerly Romanists for desire of licentious libertie other temporal motiues haue apostated from the Catholike Roman Church Witnes Luther Caluin other founders of the misreformed Churches to omit those of smaler note Some cited for Romanists which are not such with abuse of some other authors PERIOD 4. An idle calumnious discourse of the aduersarie foolishly affirming that the Roman Church is hinderd frō reformation by bumane Police reproued PERIOD 5. The irrefragable argument of Catholikes that the pretensiue Reformers cannot assigne a time in which anie one point of the Roman faith was by anie publike authoritie before the dayes of Luther condemned for erroneous maintained fortified against the friuolous euasions of the aduersarie Some Romanists by him impertinently alledged others cited for Romanists which are not such PERIOD 6. The Catholike Roman doctrine cleared in it succession from all touche of heresie But contrarily the pedegree of the misreformers much stained with the same where diuers ancient Fathers are abused corrupted at the least in sense meaning PERIOD 7. The pretensiue reformed doctrine is not proued eytherby testimonie of Romanists or otherwise to haue eyther vniuersalitie or antiquite but conuinced to be quyte voyde of them both And the aduersarie promissing to proue the antiquitie vniuersallitie of his faith by testimonies of Romanists onelie produceth two or three in two or three onely points yet those impertinentlie PERIOD 8. Neyther iustification by faith nor the deniall of the reall presence or transubstantiation or priuate Masse not the dual number of Sacraments not anie vnlawfulnes of communion in one kynde of prayer or seruice in an vnknowne langue of due honor of images or Indulgences proued by testimony of Romanists or by anie other apparent argument but all the aduersarie alledgeth is discouered to be faultie friuolous or forged PERIOD 9. Not one testimonie of Romanists for the certaintie of the pseudo-reformed faith or vncertaintie of the Roman as the aduersarie idlely pretended But diuers of them abused detorted PERIOD 10. No safetie comfort or benefit for the soule but much for the bodie in the pretensiue reformed faith neyther did anie Romanists euer confesse more then this second parte of saftie comforte or benefit to be in the new Religion Where diuers authors are depraued abused by the false aduersarie PERIOD 11. It is conuinced to be absolutelie false calumnious that the Romanists eyther elude or reiect the ancient Fathers but contrarilie esteeme much more of them then anie of the misreformers euer did Where diuers authors are falsely accused abused PERIOD 12. No true recordes euer razed by the Romanists but manie by the false reformers partelie razed partely exauthorized or destroyed With discouerie of some false dealing in the aduersarie PERIOD 13. It is a miere calumnious accusation of our malitious aduersarie to affirme that the Romanists blasphemie the scripture where it is conuinced that the Romanists vse the scriptures with much more reuerence then the Nouellists doe And diuers Catholikes are traduced corrupted touching this matter PERIOD 14. It is miere phrensie to imagin that Bellarmine testifies the trueth of the misreformed doctrine eyther in ihe principal points of controuersie or in anie other point of their newe tenets And the same Cardinal is much abused by the aduersarie in this passage PERIOD 15. Ancient martyrs not pretended but defended to haue shed their blood not for defense of the newe pretended reformation but in defense of the ancient Catholike present Roman faith And the weakenes and folie of the aduersarie discouered in his proceeding PERIOD 16. The Romanists haue no need to drawe any argument for proofe of their Religion from the confession of the sectaries And to treate of this was impertinent to the aduersaries proiect PERIOD 17. It is demonstrated to be plainely false that the aduersarie hath proued by confessions of Romanists that his Religion is safer then theirs And this is founded onely in his owne crasie iudgement fayling miscarying in the verie foundation of his worke APPROBATIO VIso testimonio cuiusdam viri docti mihique de fide doctrina probè cogniti quo testatur hanc Censuram cuiusdam libelli qui inscribitur Viatuta nihil continere fidei vel bonismoribus aduersum sed multa Catholicae religionis dogmata subtiliter explicata orthodoxorumque scripta vindicata diligenter Dignam censui quam ego approbarem Duaci 28. Nouembr 1632. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS c. Correction of faultes supplie of omissions PAge 60. line 13. reade Church Apostacie p. 114. l. 18. for them reade it p. 116. for be reade were for there formers reade the Reformers p 127. omit real presence l. 134. for sainte reade smarte p. 142. for to dissent reade not to consent p. 154. for to such contrarie reade contratie to such in the same page l. 23. for which is true reade which in his opinion is true p. 155. touching the same matter l. 15. for none of which is contrarie reade none of which abstracting from the institution is contrarie p. 145. for but hath reade but since it the rest were there included hath pag. 156. line 2. for the manner reade the whole intire manner p. 158. for declaredly vniuersally reade so declaredly vniuersally page 226. for the worde of God reade either the vnwritten worde of God in the same p. l. 14. adde althou ' there were no
other Councell for it pag. 208. l. 20. to people adde as euer so to receiue it by Christs commaunde p. 265. for thrice reade once p. 240. lin 6. to Christ adde humane nature p. 239. for reconciliatiōs reade reconciliationis p. 287. for dignitie reade decorum p. 202. l. 7. omit other l. 27. to exhibited add by it selfe page 307. to not determined by the Church adde in euerie particular pag. 317. to illegitimate adde concerning the doctrine of images p. 371. to diuine worship add in spirit pa. 447. l. 16. for in reade since pa. 463. for thim reade him in the next l. 10. for may chalenge reade may in that respect chalenge p. 467. l. 17. adde in respecte of the people p. 433. lin 16. for able reade agreable omit su pag. 438. lin 13. for to whome reade yet p. 475. for conference reade cōfidence p. 485. l. 16. for heresie reade material heresie p. 480. for martyrs reade examples p. 493. l. 26. consequence adde to this purpose p. 566. l. 24. to soundes adde including the prayers p 546. l. 8. to glorious adde flashe l. 26. for gaspell reade Gospell p. 545. l. 2. reade Pamphleter p. 421. l. 18. omit in a visible maner In the introduction to the Appendix Page 73. line 10. adde defined l. 3. for false reade safe p. 19. l. 20. omit either in the next l. reade workes l. 24. to some of adde them Besides these neglects I aduertise the reader of an other faulte committed in the omission of titles for the distinct matters Neuerthelesse this defect is sufficiently supplied in regarde that in the commencement or entrance of euerie seuerall period the contents are breefely declared There be manie other errors of lesse importance committed by the printer as being a strāger as Nice with a great letter the like which the discretion and iudgement of the reader will easily correct In like manner he will perdone the rudnes of the style as penned by one whoe by reason of his absence daylie conuersation with strangers ignoreth the propertie of his natiue language As also he will conniue his tardance in the publication of the worke which if it had not incountered vnimagined impediments might haue appeared manie monethes paste THE FIRST PERIOD THIS Period shall containe the first and second sections of S. Humfreys way and I resolued to ioyne them together by reason I finde litle matter of doctrine in them as being rather in the nature of preamble or introduction and consequently of too small substance for a scholler to insist vpon In his first section he purposed to prooue and disprooue the bitternesse of the Church of Roome towards the reformed Churches but he bringeth verie little or nothing to that purpose onely citing for his demonstration of the same some vnchristian speeches as he tearmeth them vttered by father Campian in his first reason She tearmes vs saith S. Humfrey meaning the Roman Church Heretiques Hellhounds of Zwinglius Luthers whelpes Turkish Hugonotes damned persons and worse then Infidells which wordes if they weare truly related I must needes confesse include no small acrimony but I hauing diligently read ouer on purpose Campians first reason I finde not them all there nay nor yet the greater part of them nor any other equiualent vnto them I finde indeede he speaketh sharpely against Luther and Caluin and he tearmeth them and others whom he citeth Quid ille nunc diceret si viueret in terris Lutheros Caluinosque concerneret opifices Bibliorum qui sua lima politula elegantula vetus nouumque testamentum esse raserint Quid Lutheri Catulis vt Tobiam Ecclesiasticum Machabaeos horum odio complures alios ea calumnia comprehensos è syncero canone repente dispungerent c. Quae quidem Ecclesia custos huius depositi non magistra quod haeretici cauillnatur thesaurum hunc vuluersum quem Synodus Tridentina est amplexa vetustissimus olim concilij publicitus vendicauit c. Castatio mysticum illud Salomonis Canticum c. Nihilo pluris quam cantilenamed amicula cum pedissequis autor colloquium amatorium venereus furcifer aestimauit Camp rat 1. heretiques for their mangling the holy scriptures according to their owne priuate Spirits but he hath not one bitter worde against the persons of any sectaries of his owne Countrie but onely iustly reprehendeth the Nouelists in generall for rheir abuse of the worde of God But suppose Father Campian had vsed such speeches indeede what then do not the reformers themselues most frequently both in their writings and pulpits vse farre worse tearmes both against the Romanists and the Roman Church do not they accuse both her and her members of Idolatrie Superstition and Antichristianity exaggerating matters with all the satyricall phrases they can inuent as euen in this very place doth appeere where S. Humfrey himselfe rayling not onely against the particular members of the Roman Church but also against her sacred selfe charging her to haue lost her breasts or at least to giue her children little or no sincere milke out of her two breasts the two testaments and that she doth dayly practise spirituall fornication and that she hath plaid the Harlot with a greate H. and finally taxing her that she mainetayneth and practiseth manifest and manifould Idolatry and that her title is vsurpation her deuotion is superstition and she her selfe a professed enemy to the ghospell from whence you may inferre what a sencelesse blindenesse this was in the knight to dedicate the first chapter of his booke to the disproouing of the bitternes of the Roman Church he himselfe hauing spent a greate parte of it in rayling against her and also you may perceaue how importunely he accuseth her of malignitie and want of desire to quench the vnquenchable broyles of the Church as he tearmeth them whilest he himselfe through his exasperating speches asmuch as in him lyeth putteth no small impediment to the extinguishing of the same as the reader may plainely perceaue and notwithstanding he compareth the Roman Church and his owne to two sisters which comparison allthough it be very fond and absurd in it selfe for that the true Church being but one onely spouse of Christ she can admitte no sister nor Corriuall according to the meaning of the holy Spirit in the Canticles affirming his spouse to be one VNA ES SPONSA MEA neuertheles he must needes be conuinced to haue proceeded most preposterously in this matter and contrary to all reason in that hee intending or at least pretending to shew there ought to be loue vnion betwene them as betwene two sisters descending from one and the same catholique and vniuersall mother as he calleth her yet as it were with one the same breath he accuseth the same Roman Church to haue beene the onely cause of separation and carrieth the busines in such a rough and vncivill fashion towards her giuing her such greate occasions of new disgusts
proceeds in this his first section which is the introduction to the rest in regarde that by indeuouring to reprooue his aduersarie he doth vnaduisedly prooue his owne imperfections and so doubtlesse he had better beene idle thē so ill occupyed And I verily persuade my selfe that if the Archflamen had duely examined the contents of this section he doubtlesse would haue marked it with a non imprimatur In his second section S. Humfrey pretends to prooue the cause of contention betwixt the Reman Church and his owne originally to haue proceeded from the Romanists by their owne confession Thus much he promiseth in the title but performeth nothing For he cytes but three onely authours that is Cassander Camdē and Cesenas in fauor of his position and yet none of them are acknowledged by vs for sounde Romanists at the least if we respect their writings here produced And of Cassander both the inquisitors in their Index and Bellarmin in his Controuersies sufficiently declare the vnsoundnes of his doctrine and religion Camden I hope is well knowe Now for Cesenas notwithstanding S. Humfrey stiles him Generall of the Franciscans as indeed once he was though afterwards deposed by his owne order and excommunicated by Pope Iohn the 2◠for his pertinacie and malapert manner of defending that the Fryes of his order could haue no rents or possessions yet if he writ against the Tyrannie of the Pope as he is quoted by the kinght it is most manifest he could not be a perfect Romanist or at least that worke could not be his as in truch I am persuaded it was not but falsely fathered vpon him through the iniquitie of him who malitiously composed the mysterie of iniquitie against the Pope and Roman Church And hauing now examined the matter I perceiue that which Cesenas writ or Ockam for him was not against the Popes in generall but he writ onely an epistle or treatise if anie thing he writ him selfe against the errors as he termes them of Pope Iohn in particular with whome he was much disgusted by reason of the foresaid busines and excommunications And as for the wordes which S. Humfrey cites touching two Churches one good and an other euill I fynde none such nor anie others to that sense in Cesenas And if euer he vttered anie such wordes which according to his whole discourse is wholely improbable yet doubtlesse he could not meane that the euill Church was the Roman Church intirely and absolutely in regarde his owne wordes in his foresaide worke doe euidently declare that he subiected him selfe to the same euen in this same busines saying in his letters to the Generall Chapter of his Order 〈…〉 Ad Sanctam Romanam Ecclesiam publicè solemniter appellaui me mihi adhaerentes dicta nostra supposui correctioni emendationi protectioni defensioni sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Et sum semper protestatus me illam fidem tenere seruare velle perpetuo quam tenet seruat sanctae Romana Ecclesia quae est omnium Ecclesiaram mater magistra So that this passage is a manifest imposture either of S. Humfrey or Plessis choose them whether who out of an vnsatiable desire they haue to fynde out some track or step though neuer so obscure of their imaginarie Church before the dayes of Luther care not what they forge or faine And yet more then this touching the smale authoritie which Cesenas ought to haue if he had done or spoken anie thing against the Roman Church if S. Humfrey had looked well aboute him or had beene carefull to knowe the truth he migst easily haue founde him registred in the expurgatorie Index euen in the first Classe for a prohibited authour And so a man may iustely demaunde of our aduersarie with what face then he can affirme his position to be confessed by the Romanists Or what truth or sinceritie can anie one imagin to be in him and what credit can prudently be giuen by the Reader to the rest of the allegations of his whole booke who deales in this manner euen in the frontispice of his worke And in truth I wonder that at the least in humane policie he was no more circumspect then to prostitute his reputation so lauishly euen then when he ought in reason to be most carefull of it And now this may suffice for the censure of this second section as conteyning nothing in particular wich deserueth rehersall or which may any wise redound eyther to the authours credit or serue for the confirmation of his tenets specified in the former section the proofe as you see being heere as weake and sillie as the matter calumnious before and consequently deseruing no milder sentence of condemnation then the contents of the former section THE II. PERIOD NOw I will passe to a view of the third sectiō of Sir Humfreys booke which is in effect a continuation of the same matter treated in the two first sections his chiefe drift being to shew the Pope and Roman Church to be in fault for refusing reformation 〈…〉 And because he persisteth in the same manner of proofe videlicet by the confession of the members of the Roman Church I will examine briefly how exactly he prosecuteth the same and whether he recouereth in this section the credit which he lost in the former He laboureth to shew corruption both of faith and manners in the Church of Rome and that by confession of Roman Authours and for the proofe of this confession he produceth Pope Alexander the fift out of the Councell of Pisa ses 20. the Councell of Senes the Councell of Trent in diuerse places Moulin the 21. chap. of his Eucharist Agrippa de vanit Scient chap. 17. the Bull of Pius the 4. Philippus Mornaeus Card. Caraph Consill de emendanda Ecclesia Paulus Vergerius in opusculis de Idolo Lauret hist of the Councell of Trent in English These are all the writers he alledgeth which are ten in number And although he citheth them all as if they were Romanists for that he rehearseth them all to the same purpose and in one tenour or sequele of words neuerthelesse it is well knowen that fiue of the ten are so farre from being Romanists as three of them are professed enemies to the Roman Church to wit Moulin Vergerius and Mornaeus and the other two that is Agrippa and the Tridentine history in English are of no authority nor credit amongst the Romanists as being either plaine heretikes or suspected of heresie And as for the other fiue Catholike testimonies they containe not one word whereby it may be proued that either the Pope or the rest of the Roman Church did refuse to admite of due reformation as Sir Humfrey affirmeth but the contrary is most manifest out of the Councell of Trent it selfe euen in the same places which he citeth where speciall decrees of diuerse particular abuses to be reformed by the Pastors of the Church are extant True it is that where
text of the sixt of S. Iohn did according to the interpretation of S. Augustin but onely make question of the reall preseÌ„ce or possibility of Christs giuing his bodie to be eateÌ„ not otherwise theÌ„ in that grosse manner which they then conceiued in their mindes whereas yet the knight and the rest of his congregation directly absolutely affirme that Christs body and blood are as farre from being really contained in the Sacrament as heuen is from the altar or Communion table And thus it appeares that by indeauouring to make vs Capharnaites Sir Humfrey showes greater grossenesse of coÌ„ceipte them the grosse Capharnaites did by denying the reall presence vpon the same or like carnall imagination for for which he and his mates renounce it From this Sir Humfrey passes to another parte of his Pedegree wher he putteth in the Popes supremacie as if it were deriued fundamentally from the Gentils and to this purpose he applies the wordes of our Sauiour Lucae 22.25 so ridiculously that it makes me thinke he is will read in the booke of Quodlibets or quaeris he makes vse of Scripture so ingeniously The wordes of our Sauiour are these The King of the Gentils exercise Lordship ouer them and they that exercise authority vpon them are called benefactours Out of which place Sir Humfrey will needes inferre and prooue that the Gentiles haue giuen the Pope his supremacie and consequently that they are the benefactours and founders of the Roman faith in that particular Which passage of the Scripture how falsely and impertinently it is applied and how contrary to the true sense those words of our Sauiour are vsed and abused by the knight I will not spend time in examination of it but leaue to the iudicious reader to censure of it as he pleaseth onely I cannot omitte to take notice how he concludeth this his idle discourse with another place of Scripture out of the 20. of S. Math. where our Sauiour saith to his disciples whosoeuer will be greate amonght you let him be your minister whosoeuer will be chiefe among you let him be your seruant by which words it is most appareÌ„t agreed vpon by all interpreters except the nouellists that our Sauiour intended nothing els but to giue his disciples a lession of humility not so that they ought not in any case to haue superiority and dominion in that nature one ouer an other which were to destroy the Hierarchy gouernment of the Church which he himselfe ordained but that those who were to haue it should not abuse it by dominiering tiraÌ„nically ouer their subiects or subordinates And yet Sir HuÌ„frey I know not by what rule of Alchimie will needs extract out of this place that his and his fellowes doctrine touching the supremacy is receaued from Christ himselfe But in trueth with all my Logike I cannot vnderstand how he inferreth any thing hence for his purpose except he will deduce ex quolibet quodlibet and make a nose of way of the holy Scripture as indeed he doth very frequently framing such a sense to the wordes as maketh for his position and thence deduceing arguments for proofe of the same And if one were disposed to make vse of Scripture in that maÌ„ner he might-aswell inferre out of this place a kinde of supremacie for the ministrie especially if we write the word minister with a greate M. as Sir HuÌ„frey doth And indeede I must confesse that your ministers are greate among you in diuerse respects For some of theÌ„ haue greate Bishoprikes others greate benefices and allmost all greare wiues and greate store of children And if the King would be pleased to suffer them theÌ„ why might they not come to obtaine the supremacie euery one is his turne by succession in that case they might doubtlesse make farre better vse of the cited places of Scripture in fauour of themselues then they doe in applying them against the Romanists And according to his false dealing in applying the Scripture so doth he falsely affirme that the Popes supremacy was first graunted by Phocas falsely applying the testimony of Vrspergensis to that same fol. 149. for Valentinian the Emperour who liued aboue 100. yeares before Phocas in his epist to Theodosius which is extant in the preambles of the Councell of Calced sayth of the Bishop of Rome to whoÌ„ all antiquity gaue the principalitie of preisthood aboue all c. And as for Vispergensis altho' the authoritie of his booke may iustely be suspected as hauing ben published by the reformers or rather deformers of Basill yet doth he not say as Sir Humfrey affirmes that Phocas first granted the supremacie to the Bishop of Constantinople but rather the quite contrarie for thus he sayth Post Gregrorium Bonifacius sedit cuius rogatu Phocas constituit sedem Romanae Apostolicae Ecclesiae caput esse omnium Ecclesiarum cum antea Constantinopolitana Ecclesia se scribebat primam omnium After Gregorie saith Vrspergensis Bonifacius did sit at vhose request Phocas constituted the seat of the Roman and Apostolicall Church head of all Churches for before the Church of Constantinople writ her selfe first of all Churches So that as the reader may plainely knowe Sir H. hath falsified Vrspergensis relating that to be said by him of the Church of Constantinople which he directly speakes of the Church of Rome which neuerthelesse is so little to his purpose that howsoeuer he takes it being not a gift of the Emperour as not being in his power since that nemo dat quod non habet but onely a declaratiue constitution I cannot conceiue why our aduersarie should haue corrupted this authour except it were to exercise his haÌ„d Especially supposing it is a thing vnpossible to appreheÌ„d how either Phocas or anie other maÌ„ or Angell could giue the Pope of Rome his supremacie which is that in this passage he intendeth to proue by coÌ„ferring the same according to our aduersaries relation vpon the Bishop of CoÌ„stantinople And so I leaue this for one of S. HuÌ„freyes vnintelligible mysteries of his reformed faith For worship of Images S. HuÌ„frey deduceth the Pedegree of the Romanists froÌ„ the Basilidians and Carpocrationes But his deduction is false for it he falsely citeth S. Ireneus who saith indeede those fellowes were heretikes for worshipping of images but in another kinde farre differeÌ„t from the honour which the Romanists vse towards pictures Vtuntur auteÌ„ imaginibus incantarionibus reliqua vniuersa pererga Irenaeus l. 1. cap. 23. And he expressely condeÌ„neth Carpocrates as plainely appeareth by his wordes Imagines depictas quasdam de reliqua materia habent fabricaâ—as dicentes formam Christi factam à Pilato illo in teÌ„porequo fuit Iesus cum hominibus has coronant ponunt eas cum imaginibus muÌ„di PhilosophoruÌ„ videlicet cum imagine Pythagorae Platonis Aristotelis reliquem reliquoruÌ„ obseruationem circa eas similiter vt gentes faciunt Iren. eod l. cap. 24. because he put the
quae non debetur praecedit vt fiant To which might be added the Councels of Lateran sub Inno. 3. cap. firmiter the florent decreto de Purgatorio and the late Councell of Trent Which all teach the same doctrine of merits as our aduersaries cannot denie to which also might be ioyned all those are testimonies of aūcient Fathers who teach that faith onely doth not iustifie nor is sufficient to saluation by all which its manifestly conuinced that the doctrine of iustificatiō could not be openly protested against both before and after the Conquest by the Preists and professours of England except Sir Humfrey will persuade vs that the faith of England in those times was different from the faith of all the world beside and euen of those who directly sent preachers for the conuersion of it from gentilisme and superstition all which being wholely incredible so by necessary consequence is the whole discourse grounded thereupon Secondly I answer that its manifest out of the words cited by the knight out of the booke of the forme of administration of Sacraments vsed in those times supposing the booke is authenticall which neuerthelesse may be suspected as being being onely produced by Cassander a suspected authour there is not any word sentence or sillable which excludes from saluation those merits which the Roman Church defendeth but onely such merits as either exclude pressely exclude the merits of the passion of Christ and therefore the question which according to the order of that directory the Priest maketh to the sick person runneth in this tennour Doest thou belieue to come to glorie not by thine owne merits but by the virtue and merits of the Passion of our Lord Iesus Christ which interrogation as you see manifestly containeth an opposition betwene the merits of the infirme man and those of Christ and for that cause he calleth them his owne as being wholy wrought by his owne naturall power without the concourse of the merits of our Sauiour consequently in that sense of no force or vertue for the obtaining of saluation That which is yet more manifest by the like question insuing made also by the Preist to the same person in this manner Doest thou belieue that our Sauiour Iesus Christ did die for our saluation And that none can be saued by his owne merits or by any other meanes but by the merits of his passion where you see the opposition still runneth and especially heare more clearely betwixt mans owne merits or other meanes which proceed not frō Christs Passion but from some other cause not including or depending vpon them as the principall agent of all meritorious operations And verily I am persuaded that the reason why in those daies in those occasions the formes and speach where somewhat different in the matter of merit from the formes vsed in our times is no thing els but the differences of errours reigning in the worlde in those times and those that are now at this present defended by the nouellists For the Pelagian heresie which did attribute ouer much virtue to the merits of man hauing once beene and perhaps some requikes of it yet remaining verie rife in Englād whē the foresaid directory was vsed if any such there were or at the least not lōge before it was necessary that in all occasions humane merits should be as much extenuated as could possible be without preiudice of faith in that point But contrarilie in these our daies since the publication of the errours of Luther and other sectaries in this matters it was conuenient if not necessary to extoll the same merits as much as could be without preiudice to the merits of Christ Now touching that which is added in the second parte of the knigts assertion videlicet that the Preists of former times preached saluation through Christ alone it is most plainely equiuocall and in one sense it is true and conformable to the doctrine of the Roman Church in all ages but in another sense it is false and disagreable to the same it is true that Christ alone is the authour of saluation and that no other then he can saue vs according to that of the Apostle Sainct Peter Act. 4. non est in alio aliquo salus Nec enim aliud nomen est sub Caelo datum hominibus in quo oporteat nos saluos fieri Neither is there any other name vnder heauen giuen to men wherein we must be saued and in this sense and no otherwise the Preists of England in more auncient times preached saluation by Christ alone yet notwithstanding all this it is false that those Preists preached saluation with an exclusion or deniall of the merits of man wrought by the grace of Christ and by virtue of his death and Passion neither was such doctrine euer taught either in England or any other place before the time of Luther except it were by some more aūcient heretikes Moreouer that which the knight putteth in the second parte of his foresaid assertion to wit that the Preists of those times published and administred the same Sacraments in the same faith and trueth which they meaning the reformers teach administer this day this I say is partelie equiuocall in that he saith they publike professed administred the same Sacramēts For tho' it were true that two of the Sacraments which those Preists administred videlicet Baptisme the Eucharist be the same which there formers administer at this day yet it is false that the foresaid Priests did the vse in their time either to professe or administer two onelie as may appeare by the same rituall out of which S. Hūfrey draweth this testimonie in which all the seauen Sacraments are contained and appointed to be administred if the booke be perfectly published without corruption Partelie also that same parte of the assertion is false for that it is manifest the foresaid Preists did not receiue those two which the reformers hould for Sacraments in the same faith which they doe for as much as the Priests mentioned receiued those two in the faith of fiue other Sacramēts which also they beleiue to be such as well as the rest supposing that the number of all the seuen Sacraments were then in beleefe and practice as much as now they bee as both the rituall cited if it be not corrupted and also the histories of those times can testifie of which fiue Sacraments neuerthelesse the reformers haue no such faith as they thēselues cōfesse To say nothing of the faith of those same Preists in other points of religion which as it is certaine by the relation of historiographes was farre different from the faith of the reformers and practice of their Churches and consequentlie it cannot with truth be said to be the same And as for the rest of the words which the knight citeth out of the same rituall they proue nothing against merit it selfe but onelie against confidēce in proper merits as appeares by those wordes in particular place
thē if two should argue the one that the colour of the sea water is greene and the other blewe that some ignorant Cockes-come should step in and tell them that it followes on their variance in opinion that the Sea water hath no colour at all Which who so euer should presume to doe he deserued to be soundlie hist at for his audacious follie so doth Sir Humfrey And as for Biell whome the knight cites saying it is not expressed in scripture how the body of Christ is in the Sacrament he hath indeed those wordes which are quoted by him tho' not in his 49. as he puts it but in his 40. lection vpon the Canon but yet this his saying is not contrarie to the Romanists who easilie admit that the manner of the existence or being of Christs bodie in the Eucharist is neither expressedlie declared in the Scripture nor yet in all ages and by all authours expressedlie tought in the Church as matter of faith neuerthelesse this authour himselfe in the same place addes in plaine wordes that now that opinion which defendes transubstantiation is receiued by all Catholikes yealding for a reason of the same because saith he we ought to hould of the Sacraments as the holie Roman Church doth hould And afterwards he addes Wherefore because by the determination of the Church conformable to the authorities of the holie Fathers we ought to beleeue that the bodie of Christ is in the Sacrament by conuersion of the bread into it we are to fee c. And the like I say of Scotus Yribarne his Scholar who altho' they seeme to diminish the antiquitie of transubstantiation yet their meaning onelie is that it was not in auncient times declaredlie proposed by Publike authoritie of the Church as an article of faith yet both of them expresselie beleeuing and defending the same professedlie as a matter of faith And by occasion of this I desire the reader to take notice that whensoeuer he findes anie Catholike authours to say that this or that doctrine was not a matter of faith before this or that time their meaning is not that the obiect in it selfe was no matter of faith in anie one time since it was first reueiled by God either expresselie in it selfe or as included in some other veritie but onelie that it was not expresselie and generallie knowne and beleeued for such by all faithfull people by reason it was as then not declared and proposed publikelie vnto them by the Church in anie Generall Councell For that as much as concernes the doctrine in itselfe it is no more an article of faith after the definition and declaration of the Church then it was euen before it was so defined as may appeare in the consubstantialitie of the eternall sonne with his eternall Father in the vnitie of person in Christ and the distinction of natures and the like which in them selues were reueiled verites and matter of faith euer since the newe Testament and the lawe of Christ was published to the world not obstanding they were not declaredlie and vniuersallie knowne for such in a long time after to wit not till the time of the Nicene Ephesin Chalcedon Councels in which they were defined and proposed for matter of faith against the Arian Nestorian Euthycian heretikes And according to this rule it passeth in our case of transubstantiation for declaration of which this breefe obseruation may suffice to satisfie anie indifferent mynde Nowe as I said of Scotus and Yribarne the like I say of Caietan cited by the knight out of suarez in his comment vpon S. Thomas page 108. who altho' in it vpon the first art Of the 15. quest he saith transubstantiation which ther he calles conuersion is not in the Euangell expresselie conuersio non habetur explicitein Euangelio and before he saith we expresselie receiued from the Church that which the Gospell did not explicate Yet afterwardes the same authour expresselie teaches and inculcates that those wordes this is my bodie cause both the reall presence and transubstantiation For thus addes Et perhoc verbae Christi hoc est corpus meum quia efficiunt vtramque nouitatem scrilicet conuersionis continentiae c. That is And by this because the wordes of Christ this is my bodie doe effect both nouelties videlicet of the conuersion and the containing By which wordes it is manifest what this authours meaning was absolutelie touching the reall presence transubstantiation howsoeuer he spoake of the manner in which it is cōtained in scripture which is not our questiō And in this sense speakes Aliaco when he saith in the place cited by our aduersarie that manner of meaning which supposeth the substance of the bread to remaine still a possible neither it is contrarie to reason nor to the authority of the scriptures c. For he meaneth onely it is not repugnant to anie such expresse scripture as doth conuince the transsubstantiatton plainely to euerie one without the authoritie and declaration of the Church and therfore he addeth if it could stand with the determination of the Church in which Aliaco showes such obedience to the Church as Sir Humfrey and his fellowes obstinately denie vnto her most piously captiuating his vnderstanding euen in that which he held more easie and conformable to reason and scripture according to humaine intelligence and discourse More euer touching the citation of Bishop Fisher contra cap. Babyl cap. 10. His intent in that place was onely to proue that meerly by the bare wordes of scripture without the traditionarie interpretation of the Fathers no certaintie can be had in questions of controuersie or matters of faith And to proue this which is a direct conclusion against Sir Humfrey and the rest of our nouelists he argueth exhiposthesi or vpon supposition saying that not obstanding it is true and certaine that our Sauiour by vertue of those wordes this is my bodie did make his owne bodie really present in the Sacrament yet if one were obstinate standing preciselie to the pure text without the interpretation of Fathers and sense of the Church he might denie that it doth thence followe that in our Masse Prests make really present the bodie of Christ Not meaning to affirme that they doe not in deed for that the rest of his booke doth demonstate him to beleeue the reall presence in Masse especially the fourth chapter but onely intending to declare by examples and reasons that it can not be conuinced that Catholike Prests doe so by pure scripture secluding the exposition of the Doctours of the Church and her infallible authoritie And now this being the true sense of B. Fishers discourse Sir Humfrey verie coningly by leauing out the precedent and subsequent wordes of the authour so manageth the matter as if he had flatly denied that the reall presence of the bodie and bloud of Christ can be proued by anie scripture to be made in the Masse And that this is the true
Councell doe consequentlie affirme that the seruice and prayer in the reformed Churches in the vulgar tongue was better for the edification of the Church For it is manifest out of the verie same place cited by our aduersarie himselfe that the Councell of Trent doth command that the Pastours doe frequently expoūd some parte of those things which are read in the Masse not for that it hauing decreed the contrarie could possiblie hold it better to haue the Masse in a vulgar language then otherwise but because that supposing for other reasons it was better for the Church the Masse should not be in a vulgar tongue and that besides this it includeth matter of great instruction for the faithfull people therefore the Councell prudentlie decreed not for one onelie but for both these causes that it should oftentimes by the Pastours and Preists be declared to the common people for their greater edification and better vnderstanding of the doctrine contayned in it And this is all that in substance the Councell eyther sayth or from the wordes of the decree can be trulie inferred and so that from the Romanists owne confession it can be gathered that the seruice and prayer in the vulgar tongue was better for the edification of the Church is but such a dreame as Sir Humfrey vseth to haue the night before whensoeuer he citeth the Councell of Trent in fauour of the reformed doctrine After this the knight endeuoureth to proue that the Masse ought not to be celebrated in a silent and vnknowne voyce because sayth he the Apostles were cōmanded to showe forth the Lords death till his comming and to this end he citeth Haymo vpon the 14. chapter of the firste to the Corinth and Iustinian the Emperour in Nou. Const out of Cassander also the Greg. Decet Tit. 31. de Off. Iud. Ord. cap. 14. But to this I answere that both the knights reason and the testimonies of these authours are impertinent because the command layd vpon the Apostles was not that in this misterie they should shewe forth Christs death in words but principallie indeedes and therefore our Sauiour in the institution of the Eucharist did not bid his Apostles say it in remembrance of him but doe it in remembrance of him Hoc facite in meam commemorationem Otherwise the Sectaries themselues should be conuinced to violate Christes commaundement since that those who receiue their communion say not one worde In like manner let the reader veiw and vnderstand perfectlie the sense of the the wordes cited out of other authours and he will easilie perceaue there is not one sillable in them against Latine seruice or prayer as condemning it eyther for vnlawfull in itselfe or otherwise contrarie to the commandement of God Haymo doth onelie comment vpon that passage of sainct Paul 1. Cor 14. If I am ignorant of the virtue of the voyce I shall be to him to whome I speake barbarous onelie declaring in playner words that which the Apostle speaketh breiflie and obscurelie but sayth not a worde against the office of the Church in Latin Iustinian if anie such constitution he made of which it is much doubted by reason this clause is not founde in the auncient translation neither is it expounded by Cuiacio ordaineth onelie in generall that Bishops and Preists celebrate the oblation and minister the Sacraments of Baptisme and the Eucharist non tacito modo not secretlie but with a lowde voice but he speaketh not in particular of all partes of the Masse and at the least he speaketh not of the Canon except he meanes of the wordes of consecration which the Romanists doe not denie but the Grecians haue a custome of pronouncing them loude And as for other partes of the Masse the most of them are pronounced commonlie in the Romane Church so that the auditours may heere And according to this Iustinian peraduenture might aduise the Preistes of his time to doe when neuerthelesse it is certaine the Masse was in no vulgar language The decretalls speake not of anie vulgar tongue but onelie of Greeke and Latin as the decree of Innocent the third which may be seene in the ninth chap. of the Generall Councell of Lateran doth declare Neyther doth the Roman Church so strictlie command that the publike seruice be ministred in the Latine tongue that she doth condemne eyther the Greeke or Syrian Church for vsing the Grecian or Caldaian tongue in the diuine offices or publike seruice but onelie commandeth as more couenient that they be not performed in a vulgar language Lastly Sir Humfrey citeth some eight or nine Romanists who confesse sayth he that in the first ages publike prayers were vsed for the vnderstāding of the people But to omit that he vseth no great sinceritie in the citation and translatiō of the testimonies of some of the authours he citeth in this paragraph as may appeere particularlie in the quotation of Waldensis I say not to stand here vpon this which I shall more conuenientlie examen afterwardes I answere that those authours affirme that which we doe not denie to wit that perhaps which worde Sir Humfrey deceitfullie leaues out in his translation of S. Tho. testimonie cited out of his 3. lection vpon 1. Cor. 14. In 1. Cor. 14. lect 3. the case of the primitiue Church was different from the practise of the ptesent time in this matter yet withall the same authours doe affirme that the alteration was made vpon iust causes which causes are so sufficientlie deliuered by Bellarmine and others euen those whome the knight heere citeth that I need not rehearse their reasons they being so easilie to be found as they are to those that reade their bookes And altho ' sainct Thomas aduertiseth his reader that it might haue seemed madnesse in the primitiue Church to haue performed all the Ecclesiasticall offices in the Latine tongue for that they were rude ignorāt in the rites of the Church and ceromonies yet doth he adde that now all are so well instructed that tho' it be in Latine the people vnderstands what is donne in the Church whose saying is most true at least in generall yea and in particular so farre as is necessarie for euerie person state and vocation for that throu ' the diligence of their pastours and preachers and their owne industrie they may haue sufficient instruction Howbeit that if it were necessarie for euerie one that prayes or sings to vnderstand all they say the Puritans themselues might put vp their pipes it being most certainely true that there be manie things in the psalmes which they sing so merilie and in the scriptures which they read so readilie Conscquitur ergo Canonem clare aperte legendū vt ad gratiarum actionem Sacerdotis populus respōdeat Amen Cassander ex Gerardo Lorichio p. 65. which by reason of their great obscuritie they cannot possiblie vnderstand euen in their owne mother tongue And from hence I passe to a breefe Suruey of the rest of the authors cited
in this paragraph among which I finde Cassander in the first rancke of corruption for altho' the testimonies which Cassander cites doe not proue fully his intent yet is it euident by the wordes of those he produceth that he speakes in that places of the Canon of the Masse especiallie when he sayes in the title of his chapter canonicam precem c. And Sir Humfrey translates it not the Canō of the Masse as he ought to haue done but Canonicall prayers so odious and reformidable vnto him is the reporte of that great Canon that he durst not name it Moreouer the testimonie of Cassander is detorted by Sir Humfrey quite from the sense in which he speakes it For he speakes not there of the vulgar tongue one worde but whether the Canon of the Masse ought to be pronounced with a lowde voyce especiallie the consecration that the people may heare it and anser Amen And the same I or Cassander forme me anser to the constitution of Iustinian which Cassander himselfe alledges to that same purpose and in no other sense And so in like manner the wordes of the Decretals are violentlie drawe to a sense repugnant to the authors meaning that is from doctrinall tongues to vulgar languages To the wordes of Lyra if he had dealt sincerelie Sir Humfrey ought to haue added those which immediatlie ensue and explicate his minde more clearelie Sed postquam populus multiplicatus fuit consueuit se conformare ministris Ecclesiae vtpote stando cum dicitur Euangelium deposito caputio adorando Eucharistiam consimilia fiunt in Ecclesia Latina in Latino sufficit quod Clericus respondeat pro populo expeditius enim fit hoc modo quam in vulgati But since the people increased and is accustomed to conforme it selfe to the ministers of the Church to wit by standing at the Gospell by puting of their bonet to adore the Eucharist and such like are done in the Latine Church in Latin and it is sufficient that the clearke ansers for the people for it is thus more readilie performed then in the vulgar tōgue Lyr. in 1. Cor. 14. Which wordes are so plaine against Sir Humfrey in diuers respects that he may be ashamed to heare them Belethus cited out of Cassander to proue that seruice and prayer must be in the vulgar language is abused by them both Inde etiam inoleuit vsus vel laudabilis cōsuetudo in Ecclesia vt pronūtiato literaliter Euāgelio statim in vulgari populo exponeretur Belet in Proae Exp. diuinorum offic For Belethus expresselie supposeth that the Masse and office of the Preist are in Latine and therefore euen in this same place and euen in some of the wordes cited by Cassander he mentioneth a laudable custome of some places an which sayth he the Gospell being pronounced it is presentlie expounded in the vulgar tongue Now if it were read in the Masse by the Preist in the vulgar tongue then it had beene vaine for Belethus yea and impertinent to haue made mention of that custome in the entrance of his worke of expounding the diuine offices for the vse of the lesse learned sorte of the Clergie as he professeth to vndertake It is true he hath in the same passage that it was prohibited to speake with tongues without an interpreter but that is nothing els but the very same which the Apostle himselfe declared 1. Cor. 14. vnderstanding by tongues the miraculous speech of strange languages which the speakers them selues did not vnderstand aboute which saith this author there was in the Primatiue Church a prohibition except it were with an interpreter And this is that which by accomodation Belethus applyes to the argument of his booke by way of Prologue In the rehearsall of D. Hardings wordes Sir Humfrey takes onelie those which testifie that in the Primatiue Church prayers were in the vulgar language But he leaues out the iuste reasons which the Doctor alledges for the alteration of the same made by the authoritie of the Church euen with in the first foure hundreth yeares as also he omits those pregnant proofes which he brings to showe that six hundreth yeares after Christ the seruice of the Church was in no other language then in Greeke or Latine By all which the reader may perceiue this author is not sincerelie dealt with in this passage that which yet will more plainelie appeare if he will please to see his anser to Iewels chalenge the 3. article The testimonie of Waldensis is vsed by Cassander onely to proue that diuine seruice or Masse ought to be pronounced with an intelligible voyce that the people may anser Amen but not to proue that the publike office must be in vulgar language and so it is impertinent Honorius cited by Sir Humfrey page 193. is falsified in regarde he is alledged for the cause of the alteration of the ancient custome of the vse of seruice in a knowne tongue For that author speakes not a word of the vulgar language but onely of the secret pronoūcing of the Canon which was decreed saith he I knowe not howe truely by occasion of a strange accident which happend in times past touching that matter Vnde sinodali decreto sub anathemate est praeceptum vt nullus Canonem nisi in libro in sacris vestibus super altare super sacrificium legat In which words I knowe not what linx except our Egleeyd Humfrey can see seruice in the vulgar tongue Gretzer is abused both in sense and wordes In sense because he speakes onely of the Latin tongue and of that time when it was either vulgar or very common to manie nations and yet the knight applyes his speech to proue that publike seruice ought to be deliuered in the vulgarly knowne tongue of euerie nation and at all times not contenting himselfe with lesse then this In wordes he doth also abuse Gretzerus for that he cites them neither intirely nor consequenter in English omitting or at the least altering those which haue relation to the authors precedent sentence to wit hinc illae exhortationes c. hence are those exhortations of the Fathers c. and also others before them which he ought to haue rehearsed compleatly because they are to the same purpose I will put the whole tenour of his wordes in the margen that the reader may more plainely see the fraude Latini Patres quos citat Whitakerus loqunn tur De eo tēpore quo lingua Latina erat multis gētibus vulgaris aut valde cōmunis hinc omnes simul psallebant Missae linguae populo nota celebātur quia Latina lingua erat omnibus vel plerisque nota Hincillae Patrū exhortationes vt omnes simul psallant vtque faciant attēte intelligibiliter vocēque suam cum Sacerdotum vocibus coniungant Quae admonitiones iustissimae erant quādoquidem lingua auditoribus non ignosa omnia peragebātur cōsuetudo ita ferebat vt tota ecclesia simul
intention of the minister in administration of Sacraments they are so ignorant sotish as I ame ashamed to rehearse them for example when he sayth that if the Preist fayles in his intention at the tyme of solemnization of matrimonie the maried people liue all their dayes in adultrie or fornication which is a most grosse errour in the knight for that the Romanists the reformers agree in this that altho' Matrimonie were no Sacrament consequentlie that the maried people should not receiue it as a Sacrament yet were it sufficient to free them from adulterie in regarde they receiue it at the least as a ciuill contract whatsoeuer the Preists intention bee And if it were not so certainely all sectaries of this time particularilie Sir Humfrey himselfe for one should liue perpetuallie in that damnable state of adulterie which he mentioneth And yet this sequele I am sure it importes him to denie as earnestlie as he can if it be but onelie for the conseruation of his owne his wifes honour And the like foolish false inferences he makes aboute all the rest of the Sacraments as also aboute the succession of the Popes pastours of the Church as if by the confession of Romanists themselues there were no certaintie in anie of them whereas yet he himselfe citeth Bellarmin in this verie place as teaching that in all these things there is at least morall sufficient certaintie of their reall existaÌ„ce truth Certitudine autem moralem humanam quae sufficit vt homo quiescat ex SacrameÌ„tis habemus etiaÌ„si pendiaÌ„t ab intentione alterius Bel. de Sacr in genere li. 1 c. 28. So that all these deductions are voyde of all seÌ„se reason trueth meerlie framed by the knight out of the superfluitie of his braine obtruded vpon his reader as confessions of his aduersaries in a peremptorie odious manner in disgrace of that Church whose doctrine he is not able to impugne in anie more substanciall manner In a semblable fashion doth he also prosecute the like captious kinde of argument against diuers other points of the Roman doctrine as for Example because he findeth in Biel Peter Lombard that they speake not with anie certaintie of the manner how Saints doe vnderstand the prayers of their supplicaÌ„ts he inferreth that the Romanists are vncertaine touching the doctrine of inuocation of Saints it selfe which neuerthelesse is a most false illation for that although there be some vncertaintie in what manner or by what meanes the Saints doe come to knowe our prayers by reason of the diuers opinions of diuines in that particular yet as well those who Sir Humfrey citeth as also all the rest of the Romanists agree and hould for certaine that Saints are piouslie profitablie to be inuocated prayed vnto all without exception teaching inculcating the same expresselie in their bookes writings Gabriel Biel is so plaine for the doctrine of the Roman Church that if the knight had not corrupted him both in wordes sensc he could not haue alledged him with anie coulorable pretense For in the verie precedent lection to that which he cites against vs. Biel resolues the question in our fauor saying Whence it is apparent that our prayers hope of obtaining beatitude by the mediation of the Saints are not voyde in Heauen but by order constituted by God himselfe we ought to recurre to their helpe assistance perpetuallie implore them with due veneration that we may be saued by their merits In which wordes the rest following I am sure there is sufficient to make the author a plaine Papist yea much more then Sir Humfrey desires to heare in fauor of the Roman doctrine so it is cleare he hath corrupted his sense And nowe for his wordes he hath likewise corrupted them most peruerselie by displaceing tranferring them from one purpose to an other For these wordes non est certum per omnia By which Biel ansers onelie to that question whether it pertaines to the accidental Beatitude of the Saints to heare our prayers which question as you see is onelie aboute the manner or qualitie of the Saints vnderstanding our petitions not of the maine substance he respondes Non per omnia certum est It is not altogether certaine And yet Sir Humfrey applyes this as if Biel had said that it is not certaine that the Saints heare our prayers at all Yet further connecting vnto the same those other wordes vnde probabiliter dicitur Which he also soma't Insincerelie Englisheth it may seeme probable rehearsing them in one series or tenor whereas yet they are vttered by their author manie lynes after to an other purpose where ansering to the question before proposed he said thus Vnde probabiliter dicitur c. Whence it is probably said that altho' it doth not necessarilie followe the beatitude of the Saints that they heare our prayers by congruitie yet God almightie reuelles vnto them all that is offered vnto them by men All which particulars concerning the corruption of this place by the guilie knight may more plainelie be perceiued in the author himselfe then I can possible here expresse As for the Master of sentences Scotus in the 45. d. of the fourth booke altho' perchance they seeme to one that reades theÌ„ superficiallie not to speake with certainetie of the inuocation of Saints yet to the anttentiue reader it appeares clearely they both suppose for certaine of which they frame no disputation that the Angels Saints heare our prayers that we lawfullie profitablie praye vnto them of which points it is most vndoubtedlie to be supposed that those two authors could not be ignorant nor maintaine the negatiue parte in regarde the publike letanies in which the inuocation of Saints is expresselie included were vsed in the Church long before their dayes as histories so commonlie testifie that I need not produce them Besides that the writings of the ancient Fathers whose sentences Peter Lombard professedlie collected as much as was for his purpose of which Scotus could not be ignorant are full of the same doctrine as in our Catholike Controuertists may easily appeare to the reader And therefore whereas the Master vses the wordes non est incredibile scotus probabile est they speake not eyther of the absolute inuocation of Saints or of our prayers vnto them of which neyther of them proposes the question but they applye those wordes to the manner onely of their vnderstanding our intercession And therefore the Master puts the title of the question thus Quomodo Sancti glorificati audiunt preâ—es supplicantium Magister in â—it quaest â—… 45. in 4. â—…ent quomodo how or in what manner or by what meanes doe the Saints heare our prayers how they interced for vs vnto our Lord To which he ansers it is not incredible that the Saints which in the secret of the face of God inioye
Wherfore qui legit intelligat he that shall read Bellarmine in the place cited by the knight that is de verbo Dei non scripto lib. 4. cap. 11. Will easilie preceiue him to be so farre frome the confessing all sufficiency of scripture in that sense in which the reformers take it that the verie title of his booke which is of the vnwritten worde doth manifestlie conuince the contrarie And as for the wordes which Sir Humfrey cited altho' we take them in that mangled manner in which he hath rehearsed them yet if they had ben reight vnderstood by him I ame persuaded he could haue founde no iuste coulor to produce them in fauour of himselfe For that it is manifest by those two limitations necessarie for all men preached generally to all men that the Cardinalls meaning could not be that absolutelie all things which are necessarie for euerie person or state of persons in particular or as the logitians speake necessarie either pro singulis generum or pro generibus singulorum are written in the scriptures but onely Bellarmin meant that altho' all those things are written which all men both in generall in particular must necessarilie knowe haue for the obteining of saluation yet that there are some other things necessarie to some particular persons or to some particular states of persons included in that generall number of all men which are not written as namelie aboute the Gouernment of the Church administration of the Sacraments in particular the Baptizme of children the rites of the same that the beptizme of Heretikes is valid All which Bellarmin doth so plainelie specify that it is imposible for him that reades vnderstands him to doubt of this his meaning And yet not vnlike to this doth Sir Humfrey proceed with the same Bellarmin whome he citeth to the same purpose in his first booke of the worde of God wher out of these his wordes the scripture is a most certaine most safe rule of beleeuing the kinght concludeth that it is a safer way to rely wholely vpon the worde of God which can not erre then vpon the Pope or Church which is the authoritie of man sayth hee may erre Which conclusion neuerthelesse is most false captious as well in regarde that according to Sir Humfreys owne confession Bellarmin houldeth the scripture to be but a partiall rule of faith â—age 258. as also cheeflie because when Bellarmin calleth the scripture a most certaine most safe rule he doth not exclude the authoritie of the Church or diuine tradition but expresselie includeth them both as the other parte of the totall rule of faith which scripture also so onelie not otherwise he calleth with great reason regula credendi certissima tutissima knowing neuerthelesse on the contrarie supposing for certaine that with out the authoritie of the Church traditions the scripture can neither be knowne to be true Scripture not in what sense it is to be vnderstood consequentlie as Sir Humfrey taketh it it is not either an all sufficient certaine or safe rule by an other consequence it can much lesse be imagined to be a safer way to relie wholelie vpon the written worde as the reformers doe then to rely vpon both the scriptures the authoritie of the Church diuine traditions as doe the Romanists taking God for their Father in the writteÌ„ worde the visible Church for their mother in the knowledge interpretation sense of the same And thus wee see by this discourse that Sir Humfrey proueth nothing but his owne dishonest dealing with Bellar. whom besides that which I haue alreadie showed he doth more then impudenlie belie in that he affirmeth him to allowe the worde of God to be but a pertiall rule of faith which Bellarmin doth not say but onelie that the scripture is a partiall rule Page 258. not denying but the worde of God in all it latitude js a totall rule of all the Christian Catholike faith but yet supposing for certaine that the scriptures are not totallie conuertible with the worde of God but that they are distinct things the one from the other as ta parte is from the whole which any man of common iudgement may easilie perceiue And if these be the trickes shifts by which Sir Humfrey meaneth to make Bellarmin a confesser of his reformed religion in steed of gaining him he will loose his owne faith credit The knight still passeth on his way tells his reader it is a safer way to adore Christ Iesus sitting on the reight hand of God the Father then to adore the Sactamentall bread which depends vpon the intentioÌ„ of the Preist But I tell him againe that the safest way of all is to adore Christ both in Heauen whersoeuer els he is And he himselfe hath tould vs his bodie blood are in the Sacrament wheâ— if wee will not be accounted infidels wee most constantlie beleeue he is And so we say with that most auncient vanerable Father Saint Cyrill of Ierusalem Hoc est corpus meum hic est sanguis meus Math. 26. Mark Luc. 22. since that Christ himselfe affirmeth so saith of the bread this is my bodie who dareth here after to doubt of it he also confirming saying this is my bloud who can doubte say it is not his bloud And supposing this his reall presence which we Romanists trulie beleeue with auncient S. Cyrill the rest of the Fethers the safest way is to adore him in the Sacrament not as sitting at the reight hand of his Father onelie But as for you reformers as it can not be safe for you to denie Christs reall presence in the Eucharist so neither is it safe for you to refuse to adore him there where in the true Sacrament he is truelie present I knowe Sir kinght you make your comparison betweene the adoration of Christ in Heauen the adoration of the Sacramentall bread but it proceds vpon a false supposition for the Romanists adore not the bread but Christ vnder the forme of bread whose existence there doth not so much depend vpon the intention of the Preist but that sufficieÌ„t certaintie may be had of the same at the least much more then you can haue that you receiue a true Sacrament whe you take the bread at the ministers hand who if he hath no intention to doe it as Christ did when he gaue it to his disciples then may you receiue as much at your owne table as at the communion table But the trueth is that all this is nothing but captious cogging in Sir Humfrey for proofe of which he most impertinentlie produceth S. Aug. de bono pers lib. 13. cap. 6. Wher he hath not a worde to this purpose but onelie treateth there of the supernaturall actions of man saying that to the end our confession may be humble lowlie it is a
the mouth of two or three witnesses euerie worde may stand And so suppose it were true that S. Chrysostome sayd iust that which Sir Humfrey would haue him yet is not one testimony enuffe to conuince an aduersary thus much I say for as much as concerneth the point of controuersie it selfe of the all sufficiencie of scripture But because the knight may say this is not that which he intendeth directlie in this place but onelie to conuince that Bellarmin hath eluded the foresayd testimonie therefore I answere secondlie that Sir Humfrey needed not to haue gone to Bellarmin's Chronologie for the censure of the foresaid worke for he might haue founde it more plainelie censured before in his controuersies as appeareth lib. 4. de verbo Dei non scripto the 11. chapter Where the Cardinall hath these wordes But this testimonie is not of Chrysostome but of the author of the imperfect who was either an Arian or certainlie his booke was corrupted by the Arians in manie places Thus Bellarmin Shewing the corruptions by two seuerall instances taken out of the worke it selfe where he speaketh against the Homousians that is against the Christians of the Catholike Church to which he giueth that name because they defended beleeued the consubstantialitie of the eternall sonne with his Father yet it s well knowne that sainct Chrysostome neuer eyther writ or spoake against the Homousians as being one of them himselfe a professed enimie to their aduersaries the Arians And hence it is plaine that Bellarmin had reason to censure that worke not to acknowledge it for S. Chrysostomes as Sir Humfrey would haue it except he would haue condemned that glorious Doctour of the Church for an Arian heretike as the reformed brothers must of necessarie consequence doe if they will haue him to be the authour of that vnperfect treatise Neyther did yet Bellarmin taxe it for that sentence which the knight alledgeth out of it as hee craftilie falselie insinuates but for other erroneous doctrine which it containeth which is no more contrarie to anie article of the Roman faith if it be trulie vnderstood then it is to the faith of the reformers except perhaps they be nearer in some points of their doctrine to the Arians then the Romanists bee whoe quite deteste abhorre the same Which I leaue to their owne consciences to determin For altho' the Romanists denie that the sole scripture pure text of the bible is sufficient to determin all controuersies doubts in doctrine or māners yet they doe not denie but that the sole scripture doth sufficientlie declare the most greatest parte of the doctrine necessarie to saluation particularlie they graunt that the true Church may be sufficientlie knowne by onelie scripture truelie expounded which is the verie same that the authour of the imperfect affirmeth in the foresayd wordes Neyther is it all one to affirme that the Church is knowne onelie by scriptures to affirme that the scripture onelie hath all sufficiencie as Sir Humfrey doth falselie suppose when he vseth the first proposition taken out of the author of the Imperfect as a medium to proue the second which is his owne position because to know the Church onelie is not all the doctrine which the scripture containeth as necessarie to saluation but onelie a parte of the same so it is cleare that how true soeuer it be that the church is knowne by scripture onelie yet cā it not be thēce inferred that all the doctrine of the Church necessarie to saluation is sufficientlie knowne by onelie scripture except out of the pregnance of his wit extrauagant skill in logique the knight can inferre an vniuersall proposition out of a particular which I know he can no more performe then he can extract by arte two oysters out of one apple And thus we see that Sir Humfrey hath not proued by the exception of Bellarmin against the foresaid treatise that either the Roman Church or Romanists haue eluded their recordes or reall proofes of Fathers touching the question of all sufficiencie of scripture for that the sentence thence produced proueth no such thing And consequentlie there was no necessitie that Bellarmin should indeuour to infringe the authoritie of the whole worke for such a testimonie drawne out of it as is not contrarie to the Roman faith neither can it with anie coulour be imagined that the Cardinall would euer haue layde his censure vpon the same if it had not ben faultie in greater matters Secondlie Sir Humfrey produceth saint Augustin touching the deniall of honour of Saints where he sayth that manie are tormented with the diuell who are worshipped by men on earth And whereas Bellarmins answere according to Sir Humfreys relation is that peraduenture it is none of Augustins that sentence the honest knight as if Bellarmin were all the Romanists that euer writ or spoake maketh a generall interrogatorie saying what say the Romanists to this As if that which one onelie priuate man speaketh in a priuate matter were to be accounted the voyce of all men of his profession And yet Bellarmin doth not onelie adde more in his ansere yea much more to the purpose which not withstanding our braue Sir Sycophant very slylie omittes viz. that he could not finde those wordes in S. Augustin but also addeth three other principall anseres to the same obiection And so it appeareth that insteed of proofe that Bellarmin eludeth the recordes of S. Augustin the elusorie knight eludes both Bellarmin his reader egregiouslie by deceitfullie omitting that which both iustified the Cardinalls proceeding also declared the true meaning of the place cited in sainct Augustins name Thirdly he taxeth Bellarmin stapleton for saying that S. Augustin was deceiued or committed a humane errour in his interpretation of those wordes super hanc Petram caused by the diuersitie of the Hebrewe Grek Latin tongue which either he was ignorant of or marked not But I ansere first that what soeuer error S. Augustin might commit in this matter certaine it is that it was onelie aboute the interpretation of those wordes Math. 16. thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I build my Church For touching Sainct Peters supreme authoritie in it selfe which is that our irreligious aduersarie intendes cheefelie to diminish in this occasion it is most apparent that S. Augustin stronglie maintaines it in his second of Baptisme cap. 1. saying Quis nesciat illum Apostolatus Petri principatum cuilibet Episcopatui esse praeferendum That is who can be ignorāt that Principalitie or soueraintie of Peters Apostolate is to be preferred before anie Episcopate or Bishoprike And in his 15. sermon of the saints he speakes yet more plaine to this purpose affirming that our sauiour did nominate S. Peter for the foundation of the Church ideo digne fundamentum hoc Ecclesia colit supra quod Ecclesiastici officij altitudo consurgit And therefore saith S. Augustin the Church deseruedlie honoreth this
saying that he seeth not how the foresaid authours can be excused from errour in that particular for that the Cardinall onelie condemneth them in that which the reformers themselues according to reason sounde doctrine ought to condemne also that in no question of Controuersie betweene vs them nor which can iustelie preiudice the foresayd Fathers authoritie in other matters especially in which they all agree Lastelie sayth Sir Humfrey we produce the vniforme consent of Fathers against the immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin To which Salmeron the Iesuit quoth hee ansereth that weake is the place which is drawne from authoritie But first I aske of Sir Humfrey what he his consorts haue to doe with the immaculate Conception For that is no Controuersie of faith betwixt the Romanists them it is a question among some Romanists them selues lawfull for either side to make the best vse they can of the testimonies of Fathers either by imbrasing them or expounding thē in that particular point as they finde them most aduantageous for the defence of their seuerall opiniōs so farre as the Church permits thē that without any disparishmēt to their authority in regarde their wordes are not so plaine but that they may seeme to admit diuers expositions in that particular And as for Salmerō he neither speaketh of the Fathers in generall when all or most of them consent in a matter of fayth nor yet when they plainelie agree in anie other point of doctrine but onely when they speake doubtfullie or obscurelie this I say vpon supposition the place of the foresaid authour is truelie cited which in regarde I haue taken the knight so often tardie in that Kynde of proceeding I may vnrashlie suspected And the truth is that hauing now viewed the place in the booke which is in the 51. Disputation of Salmeron vpon the 5. to the Romās I finde that he speakes not of the vniforme consent of Fathers or Doctors but onelie of a certaine great number of thē to which he opposeth an other as great as he supposeth yea greater therefore he addes Quare si authorum numero decertare velint meaning the opposers of the immaculate conception of the Virgen procul dubio absorbebuntur So that this author is abused iust as I did coniecture before I sa his booke And altho' I can not much commend Salmeron for anie great ingeniousnesse in his application of the shepards sentence yet sure I ame that if he applied it not verie aptelie you Sir Humfrey applie it much worse more absurdelie And thus hauing nowe examined all the particulars of this section hauing founde nothing which proueth the authours intent I will end my period yet noting by the way how vanelie Sir Humfrey concludeth his discourse affirming his reader to haue heard the proofe of the Romish witnesses in the behalfe of the Protestant doctrine made good by the testimonies of the Fathers themselues which notobstanding is all false meere delusion for that I haue made it clearelie appeare that neyther anie Romanist by him cited hath graunted that anie one of the Fathers doth teach anie point of Protestant doctrine nor yet that they speake in those places here cited of the cheefe points of doctrine in Controuersie but contrarilie it appeareth that they speake onelie either of other matters which little concerne the Catholike faith or at the least they speake in an other sense then the reformers pretend yea that which is more remarkable not with vniforme consent but rather fewe or at the most two or three in one matter in which manner of proceeding what argument soeuer may be deduced from them it is no more trulie to be iudged called the testimonie of the Fathers absolutelie then that may be called absolutely the testimony of the reformers in which neuerthelesse onelie some fewe of them yeald their testimonies yet that but in some particulars those no principall points of faith And as for this complaint which Sir Humfrey maketh so formallie of the elusion of the proofes recordes of the Fathers as also touching that which he in like manner frameth against the Roman Church for her prohibition or censure of bookes I wonder with what face he can reprehend that which he knoweth to be so much practized in his owne Church in which there cannot the least pamphlet or smalest volume come forth which if it doth but seeme to cōtradict anie parte or point of the English faith or anie other point of Puritanimse is not presentlie ceased vpon by a pack of Pursuiuants put to the tortor of the Consistoriall assemblie there to receiue sentence of condemnation by virtue of which it seldome scapeth the flames of Vulcan Of which in parte is witnesse Doctour Mountagues latelie published booke which by reason it sauored a little of some points of Romanisme by an expresse Apeale euen to Cesar himselfe could not be saued from the seuere censure of the Puritan sinagoge And particularlie touching the authoritie of ancient Fathers if it were a faulte in the Romanists to call in questiō some passages or sentences of some of their writings where they iustelie suspect them to haue ben corrupted by heretikes Surelie the sectaries of these tymes are much deeper plunged in this nature thē they are in regarde that vnder the breight colour of reformation they doe not onelie vse to reprehend particular passages but reiect whole bookes that not onelie of the most ancient Fathers as appeareth in the Hierarchie of sainct Denis but also whole bookes of the scriptures themselues as is manifest in the bookes of the Machabies others which they vtterlie renounce condemne for Apochripha not sparing the booke of wisdome it selfe such cruell patrons they are of ignorance and of want of diuine knowledge Nay now of late they are be come so precise in this their spirituall tyranie that in their last editions as I ame informed they haue quite banished the foresaid bookes of Machabies Tobie Iudith wisdome Ecclesiasticus out of their bible To omit other bookes of lesse moment which they haue eyther mangled or left quite out of their editions as in the Inquisitors Index may be seene So that nowe the reader may plainelie perceiue that Sir Humfrey his pure simmists are so farre from excuse for their importune complaint of the Romanists in this particular that we may iustelie compare them to those Phariseis who could sooner see a mote in their fellowes eye then a beame in their owne And so here I leaue them all to be censured for hypocrites by Christ himselfe passe to the next section THE XII PERIOD THIS Period shall containe an other accusation of the knight in which he chargeth the Romanists with the crime of razing the recordes of the reformers clipping their owne authours tongues by which sayth he they are conuinced of an ill cause cōscience But how falselie the Romanists be accused by Sir
Humfrey it plainelie appeares by the examen of witnesses which I will make presentlie and in the meane time let but the reader reflect vpon that which hath hitherto ben sayd he will easilie perceiue that Sir Hūfrey himselfe is conuinced not onelie of a bad cause an ill conscience but also of such grosse proceedings as is not able either to the partes or su credit of a Caualier But now to particulars His first charge is layde vpon the inquisitors for blotting out a certaine note made in the margen of the Bible of Robertus Stephanus vpon the 4. chapter of the deuter That God prohibiteth grauen images to be made But what razing of recordes is this Is a newe note made by some one moderne vnknowne authour not sutable to the true sense of the text in such an edition of the bible as cannot be of anie long standing to be accounted one of your recordes And if it be yours how came it into the Bible what doth it there hath not the Inquitor as much authoritie to put it out as some obscure brother of yours had to put it in the true meaning of the scripture neither in the place of that note nor anie other is that God did prohibit absolutelie all grauen images as one of the greatest diuines you haue doth ingenuouslie confesse Daniel Chamierus Panstrat l 21. de imag c. 8. n. 1. but onelie he did forbid them to be made to the end to adore them as Gods or at the least to adore them with danger of idolatrie and yet the foresayd wise annotation maketh the scripture to forbid all grauen images absolutelie Wherefore it s nothing but a false recorde ordayned to deceiue the reader by abusing the true sense of Gods worde so the Inquisitor when he branded it with a deleatur he did but execute iustice vpon a falsifier of the Kings letters which in him neither argueth bad cause nor ill conscience but sheweth both of them to be in the authour of the counterfet recorde which he foysted in to the sacred bible To omit that it being no note of anie Roman authour as it manifestlie sheweth it selfe not to be yet the knight leap'd quite out of the quire when he cited it for a record of his owne except he supposeth al the writings of the pretended reformed Doctors of what sect soeuer they be to be recordes for his Church against the Roman doctrine which is both most ridiculous in itselfe nor yet was anie such razing of the reformers recordes euer intended eyther by the Inquisitors or by anie other censurer of bookes in the Church of Rome His second charge is aboute a certaine glosse vpon Gratian which glosse affirmeth according to Sir Humfreyes relation that the Preist cannot say significatiuelie of the bread this is my bodie without telling a lye This glosse saith hee is condemned by the inquisitor to be blotted out It is true the Inquisitor did so but what then did he therefore doe it wit an ill conscience I denie the consequence And in your conscience Sir Humfrey is it not an idle glosse indeed Doe not your ministers themselues when they deliuer the communion call it the bodie blood of Christ And if the Preist lyeth when he sayth so not of the bread as the false glosse sayth if so it saith but of that which is contained vnder the forme of bread surelie your ministers tell a farre greater lye when they say significatiuelie of the bare bread that it is the bodie of Christ truelie reallie as Master Caluin affirmeth Instit l. 4. cap. 17. And so I conclude this point that Sir Humfrey had no reason at all to accuse the Inquisitor of an ill conscience in razing onelie such a recorde as is no lesse repugnant to the doctrine of the reformed Churches then to the Roman faith if anie matter of faith it were which indeed it is not so by consequence it is also impertinent to the matter here in question Thirdlie Sir Humfrey chargeth the Inquisitor for blotting out Cassanders whole tract of the Cōmunion in both kynds But what worse conscience sheweth the Inquisitor in this fact then the Inquisitors of the reformed Churches doe who are not content with a simple doleatur but daylie condemne whole Catholike volumes to the vnmercifull Vulcan And as for the recordes which you take out of Cassander we make no more accounte of them then we doe of those which you take out of Luther or Caluin so you may take them make your selfe merrie Fourthlie Caietans opinion that the wordes this is my bodie doe not sufficientlie proue transubstantiation is no recorde for you as you falselie suppose for he doth not denie transsubstantiation as you doe but expresselie defended it as his owne wordes declare which I afterwardes recitie nay he doth not affirme absolutelle as suarez wordes quoted by your selfe in your owne margent expressely declare that the foresaid wordes doe not sufficientlie proue transsubstantiation as you corruptedlie relate but onelie sayth at the most that secluding the Churches authoritie they doe not proue it which not as contrarie to faith but as a singular extrauagant opinion of that authour Pope Pius did if perhaps he did piouslie blot it out not preciselie because it fauoreth the reformers as in trueth it doth not to anie purpose but because it sm'at disfauored the truth which is that transsubstantiation is indeed plainelie enough contayned in those wordes of Christ this is my bodie Howbeit I must needs aduertice the reader that I neyther finde those wordes supposed to be Caietans blotted in anie Index that I haue seene nor yet can I finde them in anie edition of Caietan in the place cited by Suarez that is vpon the 75. q. art 1. But onelie these Conuersio non habetur explicite in Euangelio these Quod Euangelium non explicauit expresse ab Ecclesia accepimus Nay more then this I finde other wordes in the same place which conuince that Caietan held transsubstantiation to be sufficientlie contained in those wordes this is my bodie for so he argues Sacramenta nouae legis efficiunt quod significant ac per hoc verba Christi hoc est corpus meum quia efficiunt vtramque nouitatem scilicet conuersionis continentiae vt expresse dicta sacri Concilij authoritas testatur consequens est vt cadem Christi verba significent vtramque nouitatem Wherefore supposing Caietan said not that the wordes this is my bodie conteine not sufficientlie transsubstantiation but onelie not expresselie I cannot conceiue what foundation Suarez might haue for this his relation except peraduenture Pius quintus founde that edition alone of Caietan to haue ben corrupted by heretikes therefore caused it to be corrected in that passage as indeed an other place of the same Caietan 2. 2. q. 122. is discouered by the authors of the prohibitiue Index to haue ben in that same fashion fraudulentlie depraued as the same Index expresselie
no authoritie But suppose Cephas did indeed not signifie the head yet what great recorde I praye can that be for Sir Humfreys Church And so whether Cephas signifie the head or the feet whether ridiculum est be in or out of the bookes it auayles him nothing but some smale matter to quarell aboute yet the truth is that the most authenticall edition of Anwerpe 1585. hath the same wordes which Sir Humfreyes cites out of the Roman print in such sorte as one may rather much more suspect those wordes it is ridiculous to be falselie added in the Moguntin edition then detracted in the others Finallie whether the wordes of the Councell of Laodicea be that wee ought not to leaue the Church of God inuocate Angells as Sir Humfrey will haue it also some Catholike copies haue or whether in steed of the worde Angells wee reade angles or corners as some other editions haue the matter is not great so the decree be reight vnderstood that is so that the sense bee this we ought not to leaue the Church of God inuocate Angells superstitiouslie as some did in those tymes For this being the true meaning of the Councell as it appeareth by the subsequent wordes which are those and make congregations of abominable idolatrie to the Angells it is more then plaine that no recorde can there be founde for the doctrine of the reformed Churches But onelie it serues Sir Humfrey to make a plausible florish to the simple reader to the end that by working vpon his weaknesse by falselie taxing his aduersaries hee may make his owne impostures saleable which otherwise would putrifie spoile for want of vtterance Lastelie for proofe of his accusation Sir Humfrey after all this sturre he hath made produceth onelie one witnesse that a false one and altho' for the greater credit of his cause he held it expedient to giue him the decree of a diuinitie reader professor Deane of Louaine yet hauing examined the matter I founde by better information then Sir Humfrey can haue that Boxhorne before his reuolte had onelie the place a certaine of obscure Deanrie which function altho' it be a place of some credit yet it is farre inferiour to the dignitie either of a Deane of a Capitall Church or of a publike professour of diuinitie in the vniuersitie of Louaine both in learning honour profit And yet this man as I receiued by authenticall relation of the Deane of S. Gudula Church in Brussels others after some extraordinary familiarity which out of his ouer amorous nature he vsed to a domestike maide seruant of his owne out of an vnsetlednesse of his lubrik mynde began at first to defend that it was not necessarie for the Preist to prononce the wordes of consecration orally but onelie to speake them mentallie afterwardes as nemo repente fit malus Boxorno once a pettie-master by degrees falling into plaine heresie founde oportunitie to passe into the land of libertie I meane into Holand with bag bagage I meane with his Sacrilegious spouse the sacred spoiles of his Church Where from the place of a fugitiue Pedant he is preferred to the dignitie of a new Euangelist is become a blostering trumpeter in the pulpits of the misreformed congregations And this is the onely man which Sir Humfrey could bring for a witnesse against the practice of the Roman Church in her manner of censuring bookes or correcting the same or approuing them according to the order decree of the Councell of Trent which collapsed Deane being so infamous in his life as by this which I haue specified and more which I could relate doth appeare and being also now a professed enimy and Apostata from his mother Church let the reader iudge whether in reason his testimony ought to be admitted against her and let him withall be pleased to consider that Sir Humfrey in lue of conuincing his aduersaries of ill conscience he hath by his owne bad proceeding in this section conuinced his owne to be the worst of all so is fallē in to the same pit he prepared for his enimies incidit in foueam quam fecit by forgeing of false recordes hath incurred a farre deeper dungeon of cēsure then hitherto he did in which he must remaine either till he hath payde a double fine or put in suretie for the amendment of his manners THE XIII PERIOD IN His fourteeneth section Sir Humfrey indeuoreth to conuince his aduersaries of the defence of a desperate cause by their blasphemous exceptions as he calleth them against the scriptures by which we see that as his booke increaseth in number of leaues so he increaseth in multiplication of his malicious and false accusations and these being the cardes he playeth with let vs examen his gaime He continueth confidently his allegation of his false Deane of Louaine for a witnesse against the Romanists whose worde notwithstanding ought not either in reason or according to the course of lawe to be admitted for recorde against those from whose religion he hath reuolted And so whereas he accuseth the Romā Church of poyson in religion tiranny in the common welth it is to be taken as proceeding from a poysonous minde which being once corrupted hateth the truth as much as an ill stomake loathes dainty meates As for the scriptures it is false slaunderous to affirme that the Romanists refuse to be tryed by them so they be taken together with the authoritie of the Church which the same scriptures commende as Saint Augustin speaketh against his aduersaries and in a true sense without which as one of the auncient Fathers saith verbum Dei male intellectum non est verbum Dei that is the worde of God ill vnderstanded is not the word of God Quamuis certum de scripturis non proferatur exēplum tamē earundem scripturarū à nobis tenetur veritas cum id facimus quod vniuersae placet Ecclesia quam ipsarum scripturarum commēdat authoritas Aug. lib. 1. cōtra Cres c. 33. And according to this not that sacred Bible which was in the Apostles till the dayes of Luther without alteration is as you calumniously affirme ranked by the Inquisitors inter libros prohibitos among the prohibited bookes but your execrated Bible I meane your execrable translations and annotations mutilations of the most holy Bible are those that are registred in the censure where whether it haue as you affirme I knowe not certainely but I am sure it deserueth the first place because as the Philosopher saith corruptio optimi pessima and so as your Bible-corruption is in the highest degree of badnesse so ought it in reason to be ranked in the highest station of such false wares as that Catalogue condemnes And of the censure of your owne abuses I graunt you may with shame enough to your selues be eye witnesses but if you meane you are eye witnesses of the censure of the true scriptures
string that the Roman Church houlds the scriptures to be imperfect but I knowe none that makes them so imperfect as the misreformed Churches by cutting of diuers partes of them and condemning them for Apochripha in their consistoriall sessions by corrupting the text by false translations erroneous interpretations as I haue aboue declared And touching the Roman Church I haue alreadie tould him that he belyeth her For neither she here selfe nor anie of her members euer defended that tenet absolutelie that the scriptures are imperfect But onelie some Romanists affirme the scriptures alone to be no perfect rule of faith yet they neuer say they are imperfect For one thing it is to be perfect in them selues an other thing to be perfect as they be a rule of faith The first is absolutelie true maintained by all Romanists the second is but true secundum quid with restriction as before hath ben declared or as it is but one parte yet the cheefest the farre more perfect noble Wherefore the Romanists as the reader may perceiue hould both the scriptures Fathers for perfect campleit absolutelie speaking wher as the reformers whatsoeuer they say in wordes yet indeeds they doe mangle martyrize them most cruellie as a booke published by a reformed minister called the censure of the Fathers doth giue ouer plaine testimonie Censura Patrum And thus handled by thim I graunt the reformers may chalenge them for theirs but taking them in their compleit perfect latitude puritie the Romanists my iustelie say all myne in which action notwithstanding there is no police vsed to deceiue the ignorant as the reformers vse to doe but plaine dealing for their true instruction And to say the Romanists silence scriptures it is so manifest an vntruth as it needs no other confutation But by the lye Neyther doe they otherwise purge either them or anie learned writers but onelie or at the least cheefelie from such darnell as you enimies to the Crop of Christ vse to sowe by night in the feild of faith According to the sentence of the authour of the Impect Commentarie of S. Mathewe hom 44. speaking of hereticall Preists whose wordes altho' the knight world faine applie them against the Romanists yet they can not possible be so trulie fitlie accommodated to anie as to his owne ministers Bishops whose common knowne practice is by seueritie of lawes all fortes of punishment not by their bookes writings to musle the Romanists mouthes because to vse the wordes of the foresaid author they knowe that if the truth be once layd opē their Church shall be forsaken they from their Pontificall dignitie shall be brought downe to the basenesse of the people And now we see by the examen of this whole sectiō howe false Sir Humfreyes cardes haue proued how plainelie he hath lost the game notwithstanding all his iudling tricks counterfeit shuffling of which sleights there are such great store in this section that there is no place for anie matter of substance but onelie verball florishes to giue colour countenance to his fained calumnious accusations THE XIV PERIOD SIR Humfrey tells vs that in this section following there are contained allegations collected out of Bellarmin for testification of the truth of the reformed doctrine in the cheefe points of controuersie I haue alreadie declared that the Romanists reiect not either true scriptures or Fathers nor yet anie other authours of the Roman Church but onelie as either corrupted by heretikes or els onelie where we finde them to haue some singular opinion or tenet against the vniforme doctrine of the rest in matters of faith manners or Ecclesiasticall practice or discipline or els in some particular points not then sufficientlie declared determined by the Church when they did so vtter their opinions of which sorte of writers neuerthelesse there neuer were anie such either in number or qualitie of doctrine as could either make or marre the antiquitie vniuersalitie of the Church in that nature And as for Bellarmin whome Sir Humfrey citeth in this section we are so farre from taking exceptions at anie thing that he euer writ published that we all hould him for a most faithfull diligent defender not onelie of the principall points of our faith but also of euerie one of them in particular of the whole Roman doctrine in so much that I accounte it no lesse then plaine madnesse in that man whoe shall offer to make vse of his testimonie for the contrarie knowing for certaine that if he be sincerelie alledged rightlie vnderstāded nothing can be founde in him for the aduerse parte And to the end that this may more plainely appeare I will breeflie examen those particular places which Sir Humfrey produceth for the contrarie First therefore he citeth Bellarmin as confessing the vncertainty of all the Trēt Sacramēts as the knight termeth thē because forsooth in his third booke of Iustification the 8. chap. he graunteth that none can be certaine by the certaintie of faith that he receiueth a true Sacrament in regard in depends vpon the intention of the minister But this testimonie I haue alreadie shewed to be delusorie it is wholie impertinent to the purpose for that the question aboute the necessitie of the knowledge of the intention of the minister by faith is no principall controuersie betwixt vs but rather meerelie incident Neyther yet can the reformers finde the contrarie position in anie place of scripture by that meanes to make it a point of faith for themselues Secondlie he induceth Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eucharist cap. 23. touching the reformers denyall of transsubstantiation To which place I haue also ansered before it is not for this purpose in regarde there is no mention of anie denyall of the trueth of trassubstantiation or confession of the Reformers tenet in that point but onelie of an other incident question viz. whether transsubstantiation can be proued by expresse wordes of scripture And at least touching the maine point to omit the other as impertinent disagreable to the title of our aduersaries questiō which is of principal points of controuersie it is too cleare that Bellarmin defended the affirmatiue in terminis in plaine tearmes And so this is no such confession as Sir Humfrey seekes for in this place Besides that all Bellarmins confession is but one pore non est improbabile Thirdlie he citeth Bellarmins confession against priuate Masse lib. 2. de Missa cap. 9. 10. But the latter place I haue examined before founde it corrupted by Sir Humfrey both in wordes sense neyther are the wordes sincerelie recited by omission of omnino sine declaratione Ecclesiae transposition of the text And here I further adde that neyther of the places is to this purpose because they proue no vnlawfulnesse or absolute imperfection in priuate Masses but onelie at the most their lesse lawfulnes their lesse
Eucha c. 24. Sixtlie touching the confession of Bellarmin aboute the duall number of proper Sacraments we haue alreadie shewed him to be quite opposite to the reformers doctrine also haue examined the same place which Sir Humfrey citeth here and founde the sense of the Cardinall to haue ben egregiouslie by him transuerted corrupted so here is no confession of anie principall point of controuersie made by him in fauour of his aduersaries but a new repetition of an old imposture of the knights owne making Lastelie the knight citeth two places of Bellarmin The first out of his 3. booke of Iustification the 6. chapter is touching the reformers faith good workes which he affirmeth Bellarmin to confesse But what a ridiculous allegation is this For it is true Bellarmin confesseth in the place cited that the reformers hould faith repentance are requisite to iustification that without them no man can be iustified but this is no principall point of controuersie nay no question at all betwene the Romanists the reformers but onelie a point of doctrine which the reformers doe commonlie teach the Romanists doe not denie So that this is impertinentlie alledged out of Bellarmin for faith good workes since that in the wordes cited out of him there is not one sillable of good workes but onelie of faith repentance as the reader sees But yet that which is most absurde of all is that Sir Humfrey haueing here cited Bellarmins confession that the reformers hould both faith repentance to be required to iustification yet presentlie after he citeth the same Bellarmin as concluding with the reformed Churches iustification by faith onely so that within the compasse of one page the knight out of the profunditie of his great head peace resolueth in fauour of his owne cause out of Bellarmin both that without a liuely faith an ernest repentance no man is iustified also that according to the doctrine of the reformed Churches mans iustification is by faith onelie Let the reader if he be able couple these two together but if he can not let him hould for certaine that Sir Humfrey line was farre out of quare when he vttered such disparates Now the second place of the two laste is touching iustification by faith onelie But this hath ben examined before founde to containe no confession of iustification by faith onelie as the knight will haue it vnaduisedly contradicting himselfe out of an inordinate desire to make Bellarmin seeme to stand for the doctrine of his Church but onelie that Bellarmin speaketh there of confidence in merits according to the sense aboue declared And thus Sir Humfrey hauing cited all he can which all neuerthelesse is iuste nothing he addeth for all this that he wondreth why the Romanists should send out such Anathemas curses against all or anie of those that denie their doctrine But I wonder more that he who hath produced nothing either in this chapter or in the rest of his booke out of Catholike authours which in his sense meaning doth not rather deserue to be hissed at then to be admitted for anie proofe of his doctrine yet should not be ashamed to affirme that the best learned of the Romanists confesse that manie principall points of their owne religion manie articles of their faith are neither ancient safe nor Catholike And suerlie I can not conceiue but that both he who soeuer els should vse so much false dealing as he hath done in propugning their owne tenets especiallie in matters of religion deserue the Anathema in the highest degree that curse being the proper brande of the defenders of erroneous hereticall or scysmaticall doctrine And indeed it seemes Sir Humfrey had not verie great conference in the industrie which he hath vsed in this his worke For notobstanding it appeareth manifestlie that he putteth the greatest streingth of his proofes through out his whole booke in the multitude of authours especiallie Romanists whome by way of emendication or begerie he alledgeth as confessers of his faith yet he here flyeth to the little flock to the paucitie of beleeuers to the simplicitie of babes as to speciall caracters of the true Church vtterlie disclaming from humane wisdome power nobilitie a pore refuge after so manie great boasts bragges of the victorie obteined as he imagineth but falselie by meere authoritie multiplicitie of testimonies piled vp both in text margin now to plead paucitie simplicitie want of power wisdome And as for your paucitie in number Sir Humfrey I will not stick to graunt in regard that how great a shewe soeuer you haue made to the contrarie yet I knowe you to be most pore beggerlie in that nature but yet I denie that to be a speciall infallible marke of the true Church as you insinuate no more then the paucitie of Manicheans or Donatists was a marke of the truth of their Churches And the same I say of the want of might wisdome nobilitie I meane of true power wisdome nobilitie for of power wisdome nobilitie of the flesh you must needs haue much more then the Romanists in regarde it is well knowne you both handle eate farre greater quantitie then they doe witnesse your little abstinence the rest which modestie causeth mee to passe in silence And touching your simplicitie except by simplicitie you meane plaine ignorance you haue no colour here to bragge of it for that there was neuer flock in the world in my opinion so full of all sortes of duplicitie as your owne Neither hath anie man greater reight to be a sheepe of that fould then the noble knight Sir Humfrey who out of the abundance of his double dealing euen in this place to say nothing of that which is paste hath made choise of as false fallacious markes of his owne Church as he hath calumniouslie fained markes for ours to wit counterfeit miracles which neuerthelesse wee disclame from detest more then he and all his consortes And if they will needs medle of these matters let them reflect vpon their Master Caluin how faine he would haue confirmed his newe Gospell with a forged resuscitation of a pore man who by his instructions fained death but the false Prophet fayling of his purpose committed a murder in steed of a miracle The knight saith further that we beleeue lyes But I say that he doth not onely beleeue them but makes them as appeares by this his pamphlet in which as we see ther is great store In Deut. 14. We doe not deny with Lira but that some times in the Church there may be great deception of the people among the Preists in fained miracles but these miracles if anie such ther be are in the Church in the Preists onely as Lira discretely insinuate not approued by the Church the Preists or their companions for lucre as the false knight iniuriously affirmes most corruptedly omitting in his
translation of Lyra's wordes both the worde aliquando in the begining also the end of his sentence to wit Lyra in c. 14. Dan. talia exstirpanda sunt à bonis prelatis sicut ista extirpata sunt à Daniele De ciuit l. 2. c. 8. And we yet further affirme with S. Augustin that he that seeketh to be confirmed by miracles nowe is to be wondered at most of all himselfe in refusing to beleeue what all the world beleeueth besides himselfe But in those wordes S. Augustin doth not deny but that true miracles may be in the Church nor yet that they were not in his time Lib. 22. c. 8. for in his bookes de Ciuit. he affirmeth expressely that Christian doctrine not onely in the begining but also in the progresse of the Church was confirmed by miracles as besides other places the very title of that same chapter rehearsed in my margen makes appeare to which these his wordes in the discourse following plainely agree De miraculis quae vt mundus in Christo crederet facta sunt ficri mundo credente nō desinunt Tit. c. 8 li. 22. For saith S. Augustin euen at this present time miracles are operated or done in his name in the name of Christ either by the Sacraments or by the prayers memories of his saints And the same S. Aug. in the same place further relates one famous miracle in particular done at the bodie of S. Geruase Protase in Milā where he himselfe remained at that present time And by this it is euident that S. Aug. in the other place produced by Sir Humfrey onely condemneth him whoe for want of miracles should refuse to beleeue to which we Romanists most willingly agree And by this it appeareth that S. Augustin is here impertinently alledged by the knight But the trueth is that because these companions haue no miracles in their owne Church they striue by all meanes possible to obscure the miracles of the Church of Rome crye out like Bedlames ther is no need of miracles And now to come to a conclusion of this section the censure of it I would faine knowe of Sir Humfrey what is all this discourse of miracles to the purpose of testifying his doctrine by the confession of Bellarmin surely nothing at all I persuade my selfe the knight was mightly distracted when he penned it and so I leaue him till he returnes to his more perfect senses THE XV. PERIOD SIR Humfrey playeth the parte of a Charlatan so farre that he is not content by his prestigious trickes sleights to laie clame to ancient Fathers moderne Romanists for confessors of his owne faith but also out of the groasenes of his education in this section he presumeth to laie his greasie handes vpon those holie primatiue martyres champions of Iesus Christ ingrossing conueying those sacred wares into his owne stincking store-house which neuerthelesse all ages all Christian people all nations haue till the dayes of Luther proclamed testified to pertaine to the renowne glorie of the Roman Church And altho' he would seeme to proue that the foresaid prime martyrs doe not belong to the Church of Rome yet his cheefe proofe is but prating an idle application of his owne tenets alreadie examined confuted in their seuerall places where they haue ben all founde either plainelie false or at the least equiuocall founded vpon false suppositions vpon which no true argument can be framed which being so I may iustelie saue labour to descend to particulars yet one onelie wil I specifie which is so shamefullie impertinent that it is sufficient alone to shame the rest He sayth therefore that Father Garnet being demaunded whether if he were to consecrate the Sacrament that morning he should suffer death he durst after consecration affirme vpon his Saluation that the wine in the cup consecrated was the verie blood of Christ which flowed from his side he made ansere it might iustelie be doubted This is the wise storie which Sir Humfrey telleth vs out of Bishop Andrewes which altho' wee are not bounde to beleeue as being iustified onelie by our aduersaries yet suppose it is as true as their Gospell it maketh not anie thing for this purpose for that Sir Humfreys taske in this place was not to medle with martyrs of these later ages but to demonstrate that those ancient martyrs of former ages did not die for that fayth which the present Roman Church professeth so what soeuer he or his Prelate can faigne of Father Garnet is but a fooles boult which flying at randome cometh not neare the marke Father Garnet sayth hee durst not pronounce openlie ouer the cup after he had consecrated it this is the bloud of Christ ergo neuer anie martyr did take it vpon his death that the consecrated bread is the corporall reall flesh of Christ Behould I praye this most subtill Logike of a knight admire it Or if you list rather laffe at it as I did when I founde it out so I lefte it without anie further confutation imagining that perhaps Sir Humfrey lōg before he was borne did miraculouslie speake with some of those ancient souldiers of Christ so came to knowe that none of them euer gaue their liues for the reall presence Which in deed is the point in question not whether a man can lawfullie pronounce vpon his Saluation whether this or that hoste in particular after consecration containeth the bodie of Christ as the knight captiouslie supposeth But yet shewing vs some more graines of his follie he sayth further that it is vndoubtedlie true that the ancient martyrs could not dye in that fayth nor for that religion which was altogether vnknowne to their church O ingenious gētilman but yet I pray tell me if the fore sayd martyrs dyed not for the Romanists religion because as you faigne they dyed not for the profession of the reall presence For what religion did they dye Suerlie not for yours because if our religiō was vnknowne vnto them much more was yours vnknowne to their ages which was not in the world before the daies of Luther except perhaps your 39. articles were knowne vnto them by extraordinarie reuelation before they were coyned It is true here we haue Sir Humfreys ipse dixit for confirmation of his tenet so it must needs be doubtlesse his authority is so excessiuely great Sir Tho. Ouerb in his caract of a Puritā or Precisian And so I graunt the hypotheticall to be most true And me thinkes it is not much vnlike to an other such like position of the Puritans who vse to say it is vnpossible for a man to be damned in their religion so a facetious Protestant confesses for certaine as long as heliues in it but if he dyes in it ther 's the question Wherefore since all is but trifles that Sir Humfrey bringeth I wish the reader of his booke to consider with himselfe
as a false erroneous path by all those that tender the safetie of their soules eternall Saluation And thus hauing now resolued the man into his principles or prime matter I meane into the dust ashes which he casteth in his reader eyes hauing passed throu ' all the passages of his imaginarie safe way I haue founde it shewed it to be no way at all but an intricate diuerticle or obscure path leading pore distressed trauellers quite out of the true royall street with an impossibilite euer to come to the end of their iourney that is to the true ancient Catholike faith which faith altho' the knight both in the title of his booke in diuers other places of it hath seriouslie promised to shew it to be the same which is now professed in England euen by the confession of the Romanists yet haue I made it manifest that no true Romanist that is no authour which is acknowledged by the Roman Church for a member of the same did either in generall or in particular euer confesse the foresaid faith of England to be the ancient Catholike faith or that did euer absolutelie in the same sense in which the reformed Churches doe defende anie one article of the pretensiue reformed doctrine in matter of faith or generallie defined manners In regard of which because my cheefe intent was when I first resolued to vndertake this busines out of a tender compassion to free the readers from the great generall delusion which I vnderstood this pamphlet of Sir Humfreys had caused or might hereafter cause in the myndes of manie especiallie the more vnlearned sorte of people altho' in verie truth in itselfe it containeth nothing worth the labour of a scholler I doe now aduertice them as they esteeme the saftie of their soules to beware of it as of a shop of most deceitelie poysonous drugges of which they cā not safety taste without an antidote I meane the illiterate or vnexperienced persons in this kynde of studie can not securelie reade the the booke except with all they view the aduerse parte so by detection of the authours fraudes couning deceipts they behould the truth discouered which otherwise as being most subtillie inuolued mixed by him with abundance of plausible vntruthes equiuocations false suppositions Sophismes can hardlie be founde out euen by those of greater learning capacitie then ordinarilie the laytie vse to be And as for Sir Humfrey him selfe altho' I haue smale hope of his reclamation in regard of the great arrogācy which I perceiue in him as being mightily blinded with the vanity of his owne conceite If truly the worke is this yet will I not omit to crie a loude vnto him with the sacred psalmist vtinam saperet intelligeret ac nouissima prouideret would to God he would seriously consider that there will come a time when his booke shall passe a farre more strict examen sentence of condemnation then here it hath passed or can possible passe in this mortall life And yet if perhaps he findes in the answere of it any more sharpe or vnpleasing speaches then he would willingly heare I earnestly intreate him to account them not as spoken against his person but precisely as he is infected with the spirituall plague of schisme heresie and as whose conuersion to the most vniuersally florishing Church an faith notobstanding whatsoeuer wordes haue passed in heate of disputation I earnestely desire praye for And with this desire affection I commend him to the infinit goodnesse mercy of allmightie God THE ROMANISTS AGREE WITH S. AVgustin in the diuision of the Commaundements In his 71. question vpon the booke of Exodus and in his 119. epistle to Ianuarius he diuideth them in this manner 1. THou shalt haue no other Gods but me 2 Thou shalt not take the name of God in vaine 3. Thou shalt sanctifie the sabboth 4. Honor thy Father thy mother 5. Thou shalt not kill 6. Thou shalt not commit adulterie 7. Thou shalt not steale 8. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse against thy neighbour 9. Thou shalt not desire thy neighbours wife 10. Thou shalt not desire any of thy neighbours goods The Romanists in their briefe Catechismes for children commonly rehearse them thus 1. THou shalt haue no other Gods but me 2. Thou shalt not take the name of God in vaine 3. Remember to sanctifie the Sabbaoth day 4. Honore thy ffather thy mother 5. Thou shalt not kill 6. Thou shalt not commit adulterie 7. Thou shalt not steale 8. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse against thy neighbour 9. Thou shalt not desire thy neighbours wife 10. shalt not desire thy neighbours goods The misreformers diuision of the Commaundements is this THou shalt haue no other Gods but me Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen image c. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vaine c. Remember that thou keepe holy the Sabbath day c. Honor thy father thy mother c. Thou shalt doe no murther Thou shalt not commit adultery thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not beare false witnesse Against thy neighbour Thou shalt shalt not couet thy neighbours house thou shalt nor couet thy neghbours wife nor his seruant nor his made nor his oxe nor his asse nor any thing that is his In this diuision they dissent both frome S. Augustin the scriptures as appeareth by their Catechismes publissed euer since the change of Religion in England From S. Augustin in that they put for the second Commaundement thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen image where as hee on the contrary in his epistle to Ianuarius expressely putteth not for the second but for the first Commaundement these wordes Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any idol They dissent alsoe from the scripture both in that those wordes which they put for the second Commaundement the scripture setteth them downe in the very same tenor continuation of style with those which according to both parties is the first Commaundement to wit Thou shalt haue no other Gods but me adding alsoe one the same punishment after that which the Reformers will needs haue to be an other Commaundement which yet if they were distinct commandemēts they should rather haue had distinct punishments assigned them seuerally As also secondly because in the text of Exodus out of which the reformers rehearse their Commaundements the words are not as they corruptedly translate relate them Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen image but thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen thing Which is yet more plainely explicated in the fourth of the Deut. to be vnderstood not so that there ought not any grauen similitude to be made but that ther ought not anie to be made of those things which God prohibited especially supposing that the Deuteronomie as the word it selfe doth signifie is an exacte explication
of the lawe Exodus that that which in the first Commaundement is forbiden in the Exodus in the 26. of the Leuiticus the same is declared to be idolum sculptile that is an idol a grauen thing And thus wee see the reformers stand single in this matter that the Romanists in their diuision of the ten Commandements proceed vpon a most sound approued foundation it being both conformable to the doctrine of S. Augustin who they more willingly followe then anie other especially to the true sense of the scriptures them selues expounded aceording to the orthodoxe faith and tradition of all succeeding ages A POSTCRIPT OF ADVERTISSEMENTS FOR THE READER I Request the reader of my Censure so take notice of some particulars which occurred since the finishing of it And imprimis touching the homilie and epistles alledged by Sir Humfrey in the 9. section of his safe way against the reall presence and transsubstantion I ansered in the 8. Period of my Censure what I conceiued at that present to wit that ther was not anie doctrine publikly or cōmonly read or preched in England contrarie so the reall presence or transsubstantiation or in anie publik manner deliuered to the people either by Alfric or anie other Bishop or Bishops in anie synod or publik assembly in those dayes since which tyme of the dispatch of that worke some delaye hauing ben made in the cōmitting it to the presse hauing had greater opportunitie leasure to view the histories of our countrie which treate of the affayres of those ages in which Alfric liued which was in some parte of the 10. and leuenth Centuries by more exact examinatiō search in to the matter I finde my selfe assured of the trueth of that which I then deliuered And now for greater satisfaction of the reader and more cleare conuincement of the same I adde that touching Alfrics person and state of life he was first a monke by profession in the monasterie of Abington and as Malesburie relates lib. 1. de gest Pont. Aug. pag. 203. Abbat of the same then Bishop of wilton and after Archbishop of Canterburie Ther is diuersitie of opinions whether Siricius alias sigericus or Alfric did immediately succeed S. dunstan in that seat but that importeth little certaine it he was a Roman Catholique Vid. Harpsf saec 10. cap. 7. for that an ancient Chronicle writ by a monke of the same monasterie of Abington wher of as I alledged our of Malesburie Alfric was Abat conuinceth testifying that he went to Rome for his Episcopall pall as the custome was which iourney Alfric would neiuer haue made nor euer haue obtained his request if he had not ben of the same faith in euerie point which at that tyme the Pope him selfe professed That which also is most plainely demonstrated by an ample testimonie which the church of Canterburie gaue of the same Arcbishop Alfric and at their request sent to the monkes of his order and monasterie Abington for a perpetuall memorie of his faith and manners which for greater sattsfaction of the reader I will here rehearse at it as recorded by the foresaid religious man To the children of the holy church of Canterburie the clergie and the same church after their deuoute prayers It is knowne vnto you all how long since it is that by the successes of diuers and various euents the mother church of England hath ben depriued of her pastor and destitute of her rector which doth pertaine not onely to our losse but alsoe to the detriment of you and all this Iland since it is apparent that the sollicitude and care of the whole countrie is committed to the Metroplican For which cause we haue elected Alfric by name monke of the holy church of Abington most sufficiently knowne vnto vs noble in brith and maners indued with Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall discipline and in faith a Catholique by nature prudente docible patient temperate chaste sober humble affable mercifull learned instructed in the lawe of God cautelous in the senses of the scripture exercised in Ecclesiasticall decrees or determinations And according to the path of scripture orthodox traditions and Canons and constitutions of the Prelates of the Apostolicall seat vnderstanding teaching Praesulum Sedis Apostolica and obseruing the Ecclesiasticall rules in a sound sense and embracing that faithfull worde which is according to doctrine and reprehending with modestie those whoe resist it and hauing power to resiste and redargue them hospitable modest well ruling his house not a neophit hauing a good opinion or testimonie ministering in euerie degree or order according to Ecclesiasticall tradition Prepared for all good workes and to giue satisfaction to euerie one that shall demaunde it of the hope which is in him c. Thus proceedeth the testimonie of the electors of Alfric And to this I ioyne that S. Dunstan his immediate predecessor excepting Ethelgar or at the most according to the opiniō of some writers excepting Ethelgar and Siricius whoe both liued but fiue yeares or ther aboutes as our histories reporte at the tyme of his death spake much of the reall presence of Christ in the Eucharist in a sermon he made the same day he dyed Svy S. Dunstan And in like manner of Elphegus Alfrics successor it is reported by our English historians he was such a mortifyed man by reason of his great abstinence and fasting that when according to the custome of the Romā church he eleuated the sacred hoaste in masse the reflected ayre appeared as it were in a glasse throu ' the iunctures of his fingers Now touching the twoe immediate predecessors of Alfric which I mentioned before to wit Ethelgar Sricius neither anie historiographer nor yet anie of our aduersaries themselues doe note them to haue diuulged or admitted in their tyme anie other doctrine concerning the Eucharist then that which was then professed in the Roman church By which it is manifest that both immediately before and immediately after Alfrics dayes the same doctrine of the reall presēce which at this tyme the Romā church maintaines was cōmonly tought practised in England and no other soe that morally speaking it is not apprehensible that in the tyme of Alfrics being Bishop of Canterburie which according to the computation of tymes was but ten yeares or littlemore Godwins Catalogue the contrarie doctrine and the denyall of the reall presence and transsubstantiation could haue bin publikly professed and published by diuers Bishops in their synods as Sir Humfrey Line affirmes Besydes this Lanfranc whoe in the next age succeeded Alfric in the seat of canterburie habetur in vlt. edit Bibl. Patr. tom 11. in his booke against Berengarie of the sacrament of the Eucharist som'at after the midest he speakes thus against his aduersarie Propulsatis iam quantum satis visum est calumnijs c. hauing sufficiētly repelled the calumniations which with cantumely of Bishop Humbert the Roman Church thou hast temerariously vttered it remaines that we
be fed with this vision but let the mynde reuerence God whoe both giues to his saints a crowne of victorie and to vs the assistance of their intercession And the like he affirmes of honor of saincts a little aboue in this same page Wher althou ' he iustely reserueth the supreame worship of Sacrifice to God a lone yet he expressely grauntes an other inferior honor to Saints and Angels saying Adoretur colatur veneretur a fidelibus Deus c. Let God be adored worshiped or serued and reuerenced by faithfull people let Sacrifice be offered to him a lone either in the mysterie of his bodie and bloud or in the Sacrifice of a contrite and humble harte let Angels or holye men be loued honored with charitie not with seruitude let not Christs bodie be offered vnto them And according to this sense Agobardus speakes throu ' his whole booke particularly in his second leafe wher he reprehendeth certaine idolaters whoe imagined a certaine sanctitie to reside in images saying In which nature these alsoe whoe call images holye are founde not onely Sacrilegious for that they giue diuine worship to the workes of their handes but alsoe foolish in attributing sanctitie to images which haue no life or soule By all which wordes it is cleare that Agobarde onely condemnes the exhibition of such honor to saincts or images as is due to God a lone Which doctrine is soe farre from being anie way contrarie to the honor of images practised in the Roman Church that it doth rather exactely agree with the honor of the Councell of Trent in this particular which in the 25. Session defines that due honor is to be giuen to images not because it should be beleeued that ther is anie diuinitie or virtue in them for which they ar to be worshiped or that anie thing should be craued of them or that confidence or hope should be put in thē as in tymes past the Gentiles did whoe placed their hope in Idols but because the honor which is exhibited vnto them is referred to the prototypes or persons which they represent soe that by the images which we salute or kisse and before which we vncouer our head and prostrate our selues we adore and reuerence Christ and the saints whose representations or similetudes they beare True it is I haue noted in reading his booke that Agobard purposely refuseth to vse these wordes adorare colere adore or serue yet I plainely gather by his whole discourse he doth not soe to signifye ther by that images ar not to be vsed with anie honor at all as I haue alreadie declared by his owne text but onely declineth the vse of those wordes in regarde he takes them in a strict sense as they signifie religion or honor proper to God him self and not due to anie creature and perhaps alsoe because at that tyme as it may seeme by his nicenes and some others of that age the worde adoration was offensiue euen to some whoe otherwise were both Catholique and learned men to say nothing of the common people some of whome peraduentute out of ignorance and weakenes of iudgement euen at this day make danger to vse it and scruple to heare it yet neither the one nor the other omitting to honore images according to the approbation and practise of the Church Wheras yet if it be taken in the sense in which the Roman Church according to the definition of the 7. Synod and custome of diuines accepteth it that is for a kynde of inferior honor distinct from proper latrie and religion and as euen according to the vse of scriptures it signifyes worship common alsoe to creatures then doth it include no manner of scandall or offense at all Cumque introisset in conspectu Regis adorasset eum pro nus in terram c. 3. Reg. 1. 24. And now in that rigorous meaning Agobard takes the worde adoratiō when alledgeing the same wordes of the Eliberitan Councell which Sir Humfrey here researseth he intendeth onely to proue that images ar not to be adored or serued in which passage he proueth nothing against the Roman Catholique honor of images but onely disputeth either against some reliquies of the Antropomorphitan heresie or against some other superstitious and idolatrous adorers of Saints images of those dayes from both which kyndes of errors as Agobardus him self was soe alsoe the Roman Church with her cheefe Pastors and rulers to which he then was a subordinate member and prelate as other of his workes doe witnesse were free and innocent as likewise now they be in this our present age not obstanding the frequent calumniations of our moderne sectaries to the contrarie Finally I adde to this that in the verie conclusion and last period of his booke Agobard expressely teacheth that genuflection is to be made to the name of Iesus which yet our Puritan aduersaries out of their singular puritie or rather pure singularitie reiect as idolatrous not obstanding by Gods commaundement not onely men but deuils alsoe ar enioyned and compelled to bowe their knees at the sounde of that soueraine name And surely he who holdes this for lawfull as Agobardus doth must for the same reasons hold it likewise lawfull to honor the images of Iesus supposing that the name of Iesus being to be honored onely for the representation it hath of him much more lawfully may his image be soe honored in regarde it doth more permanently and ferfectly represent him then doth his name which consists in carracters and a transitorie sounde of letters Besides this Agobardus as the verie first wordes of his booke doe declare doth not directly and professedly treate in it of the honor and vse of images as it is practised in the church but of the sense of the first commaundement in which he includes the prohibition of the adoration of images deliuered by God in the old Testament as a parte of the same onely intending to proue in his whole worke that by virtue of this precept diuine honor is not to be tendered to anie creature but to God alone not to either idoles or images And Therfore in his laste page the same Agobardus expressely speaketh of honor proper to God him self applying to his purpose the wordes of Isaias honorem meum alteri non dabo by all which it is most clearely apparent that what soeuer Agobarde seemes to vtter against the adoration of images is onely spoken against such as attributing ouer much honor vnto them worship thē in an idolatrous or superstitious fashion contrarie to the tradition of Fathers and practise of the Catholique Church as his wordes quoted in my margen sufficiently declare haec est sincera religio hic mos Catholicus haec antiqua patrum traditio c. Agobardus fol. vlt. post authoritates Patr. citatus And soe I leaue him as no enimie to the Catholique cause nor anie fauorer of the disalawers of the same in this particular point how be it the ambiguitie of
his speech may giue occasion of error to ignorant or ill affected readers To this I ioyne my responsion to the other wordes cyted by our aduersarie in the same place out of the same booke of Agobardus as I suppose for he ioynes them to the rest of those which ther he had to wit these which followe Ther is nos example in all the scriptures or Fathers for adoration of images They ought to be taken for an ornament to please the sight not to instruct the people To which I answer in primis touching the former parte of the sentence Agobardus hath no such expresse wordes as those he onely saying thus the ancients alsoe had the images of saint painted or graued but for rembrance not to worship them which wordes ar soma't different from those other rehearsed by sir Hum. neuerthelesse because they seeme to include a denyal of honor of images I responde secondly Agobard takes the wordes colere adorare which ther he vseth in the same sēse in which he vseth them in the rest of his booke that is for diuine honor as I haue aboue declared by seueral passages of the same According to which acception his wordes ar verie true nor anie way repugnant to the doctrine of the Roman Church either in those dayes or at this present tyme which as in all former ages soe in this in which we liue doth zealously detest and abhorre as plainely idolatrous all diuine adoration of creatures tho' neuer so eminent either in nature or grace Thirdly to the latter parte of the same sentence I say confidently I am sure ther ar no such wordes in Agobardes booke euen as it is published and printed at Paris by Papyrius Masson him selfe out of whose Bibliotheke be it good or bad sir Humfrey produceth it soe that I doe not vnderstand this iugling for other then plaine forgerie or falsification Fourthly those laste wordes They images ought to be taken for an ornament to please the sight not to instruct the people ar iuste contrarie to the doctrine of S. Gregorie teaching expressely that pictures ar the bookes of the illiterate and simple people Which doctrine of S. Gregorie Agobarde was neither soe ignorant as not to knowe it nor yet soe impudent as to denye it Fiftly those same wordes manifestly disagree to the rest of Agobardes owne doctrine as his wordes by me related sufficiently declare partucularly those Habuerunt namque antequi magiues sanctorum ad recordandum c. Lastely Sir Humfrey must knowe that Papyrius Masson is registred by the authors of our expurgatore Index and consequently he is no current Romanist and much lesse is he anie of our best learned men as neither was Agobardus which ar yet those whome he professeth in the title of his booke to alledge against vs. And soe by this Agobarde is absolutely cleared from all imputation of iconomachie or error against images and the obiection of our aduersarie conuinced to be voyde of force Furthermore touching that which the knight alledgeth out of Hincmar cōcerning the decree of the coūcell of Frācfort a boute images he deliuered it onely as a relator being young in yeares vnexperienced he mistooke the definitiō of the foresaid synod for the schismaticall determination of a priuate Cōuenticle which hauing ben in the same place at the same tyme or presētly after the dissolution of the councell he might easily take the one for the other In which historicall passage as some authors opinate by the credit he gaue to the supposed Carolin bookes he both erred himselfe gaue occasiō of error to others whoe relying vpō his reporte haue put the same in their generall histories published since his tyme yet this being onely a priuate error of fact and that vncertaine it was without anie preiudice to the faith and practise of Catholique Church Besides it appeares euidently by an epistle of 55. chapters which the same Hincmare Archbishop of Rhemes writ to his aduersarie Hincmare Bishop of laon he was a verie pious Cotholique prelate an ackowledger of the Popes supremacie ouer the rest of the Christiā Churches Greek Latin for soe he speakes in Hic fift chapter of that worke qui in illius Sedis Apostolicae primata beatus Petrus cunctorū oucra portat cuius principatus authoritate mediator Dei hominum homo Christus Iesus sedem Romanam super omnes sedos sublimauit Alexandrinam decorauit Alexandrinam confirmauit c. wherfore it is improbable that Hnicmare who speaketh soe honorably of the Romā Church should at the same tyme haue vttered anie doctrine soe contrarie to the then receiued practise of the same as is contained in those wordes viz. Images ar to be taken for an ornament to please the sight not to instruct the people To this I adde for confirmation of my anser it is not credible to imagine that ther hauing passed diuers letters betwixt Pope Adrian in whose tyme due honor of images was defined against the opposers of it and other Popes of those tymes and this Hincmare for composing the controuersie betweene him and Bishop Hincmare of Laon as alsoe aboute other matters it is not credible I say those Popes should not once haue reprehended and condemned him for this position if truely he had ben a maintainer of it Besides the Ecclesiasticall histories doe testifye that aboute the same tyme this same Hincmar at the persuasion of Pope Nicolas confuted the criminations of the Grecians against the Roman Church of whome he would neuer haue made choise for such a busines if he had ben either knowne or suspected to haue defended anie doctrine repugnant to the vse and honor of images established in the 7. Synod and then commonly practised in the Christian world And thus we see that nothing produced by our aduersarie out of this author repugneth to the doctrine of that moderate honor of images which hath ben vniuersally professed in the Roman Church both in the tyme of Agobarde and in this present age My third aduertissement is that the knight in the 289. page of his safe way iniuriously accuseth Charon for a blasphemer of scriptures alledgeing him to affirme they ar imperfect obscure doubtfull ambiguous perplexed And yet I finde that this author in his thrid booke de tribus veritatibus which is the same our aduersarie cites althou ' not in the same language page 97. 98. and the rest imediately following in his french edition for I could not haue him in latin expressely cleares him selfe and Roman church of that foule and odious calumniation feigned by Plessis in their disgrace Charons wordes ar these Venons an particularitez qu'ils nous font dire encore qu'ils les proposent mal autrement que nous ne le disons pour nous rendre odieux premierement que nous le disons l'escriture este imperfecte an contraire nous la croyons confessons preschons perfecte pleine entiere tres-suffisante come estant oeuure de
consecrationem fieri arbitrantur Ego vero consecrationem horum verborum operatione hoc facite in meam commemorationem fieri existimo Christus enim c. There be verie manie saith this author who think that consecration is made by virtue and operation of these wordes this my bodie materially pronounced Whence it is that I haue seene some whoe comeing to consecrate doe in a strange manner cast their breath with the foresaid wordes vpon the breade and wine as if in as much onely as they be naked wordes not considering anie thing else in them they did hould consecration to be performed by them But I think that consecration is made by virtue and operation of these wordes doe this in rembrance of mee For Ghrist c. By which wordes it clearely appeareth that Christophorus did not absolutely denye that preists doe consecrate by these wordes this is my bodie but he onely affirmeth that they haue not their consecratiue virtue or force included in their owne materiall sounde but receiue it from the precept of Christ contained in those other wordes of his Doe this in remembrance of mee That which I yet further conuince by o other wordes of the same author in this same Action wher thus he discourseth in confirmation of his position Nemo proinde existimet haec verba hoc est corpus meum technice materialiter prolata consecrationem efficere sed ipsius Sacerdotis orationem in qua haec ipsa recitantur mandati huius hoc facite virtute atque operatione irrogatam ac spirituali virtute roboratam Let noe man therfore think saith hee that these wordes this is my bodie artificially and materially pronounced doe make the consecration but the prayers of the preist in which these same wordes alsoe are recited proceeding from the virtute and operation of this precept doe this and strenthened by virtue of the same Thus Christophorus By which it is manifest he had noe intention to denye these wordes this is my bodie to be them by which preists doe consecrate since he expressely affirmes that they are included and rehearsed among those prayers benedictions and gratiarum actions by which according to his tenet they dayly consecrate But he onely in his owne priuate opinion houldes that as well those wordes this is my bodie as the rest of the prayers which the preists vse haue their virtue and efficient force of consecration not from their owne materiall sounde but from the precept of Christ doe this in remembrance of mee Which altho' as it hypothetically or totally soundes it is an extrauagant and singular placet or dictamen of his yet is it not repugnant to the Catholique Roman faith either in the point of the reall presence or transsubstantiation as may plainely appeare to anie iudicious reader But onely hath some affinitie with the tenet of the moderne Grecians in this particular whoe not obstanding constantly defende both the one and the other as I haue shewed in an other place by the doctrine of their late Patriarch in his responsion to the lutherans And now I hence inferre as a thing more directly for my purpose that the wordes which Sir Humfrey produceth against transsubstantiation out of a certaine treatise intuled de Correctione Theologiae Scholasticae are not truely the wordes of this author But that Treatise is falsely ascribed vnto him and forged in his name how soeuer our aduersaries make great estimation and vse of it That which I clearely demonstrate because it containeth doctrine repugnant to that which he him selfe teacheth in his owne vndoubded worke against the Sacramentaries For wheras according to the citation of the knight in his 108. page of his safe way in his Treatise inscribed de correct Theol. Schol. Christophorus hath these wordes Therfore it most certaine that Christ did not consecrate by those wordes this is my bodie neither ar they anie parte of consecratiō And yet in his Treatise against the Sacramentaries he directly affirmeth the contrarie saying thus Christus enim horum verborum hoc est corpus meum vi operatione consecrationem confecit panis natura in verum ipsius corpus sese mutante c. Which is in English Christ did consecrate by virtue and operation of the wordes this is my bodie the nature of the bread being changed or changeing it selfe in to his bodie c. Now it is plane that these wordes plainely contradict the other rehearsed by our aduersarie these directly and expressely affirming that Christ did consecrate by these wordes this is my bodie the other directely and expressely denying the same In soe much either we must of necessitie grante that the Archbishop plainely contradicted him selfe which is not to be admitted especially in a graue learned diuine as he was or else that the Treatise in which is soe expressely contained a denyall of that same which the same author affirmeth in his owne knowne acknowledged worke is not truely his but falsifyed and falsely published in his name and consequently what soeuer our aduersarie produceth out of it proueth nothing but is to be registred in the list of such other cōterfeit wares as he selleth to his reader for currēt in the rest of his worke And touching his Treatise against the sacramētaries some other of his workes althou ' they cōtaine some extrauagant positions and therfore were iustely condemned to be expurged by the authors of the Index yet because particularly in his booke against the denyers of the reall presence the author exprssely submitteth his doctrine to the censure of the Roman Church purposely placeing in the frontispice of his booke omnia sanctae Eccesiae Catholicae ac sanctae sedi Apostolicae Romanae iudicio submissa sancto therfore his authoritie can not anie way preiudice the Roman faith And now let this suffice to shewe the falsitie of this citation onely the reader must further suppose that if I had seene the Treatise it selfe I could haue cleared the matter more exactely But our aduersaries take an order for that keeping closse all such obscure workes and reseruing them for their owne pallates as great nouelties and most daintie dishes Some fewe more authors remaine vnexamined by reason I could not haue them as Cardinal Carapha Ioānes Marius twoe or three others But I assure the reader the allegations drawne out of them by my aduersarie containe no matter of importance which is not sufficiently cleared without anie further searche of the places as they stand in the bookes Onely this inconuenience ther is in this matter viz. That if I had obtained a sight of the authors thē selues I should probably haue discouered some more of the alledgers ill proceding In respect of which and my other more triuial defectiuenes I will vse the same excuse which S. Augustin hath for a certaine worke of his concluding thus Si quid ab eis dici solet quod forte disputando non attigi tale esse arbitratus sum cui mea responsio necessaria non
Sir Humfrey passeth to another matter that is to the testimonies of the ancient fathers where he chargeth the Romanists that they eyther openly reiect them or secretly decline their authority by euasions in particular pointes This is the tenth section a great part of which is repeated out of his firste booke ansered by me in my censure He makes a large preamble touching the clayme the Romanists make to the ancient fathers as patrons of their doctrine as if they did arrogate that which is not their owne but the discourse is very idle mutatis mudandis may be verie iustely verified of the knight his predecessors especiallie Iewell Plessis who both of them were the greatest braggars in that kind that euer were yet none so shamelesse in corrupting the Fathers workes abusing their sense as themselues The rest of this section is verie meane stuffe consisting of captious constructions of the sayeings of some Romanists contorting them to this matter as if they did disesteeme or reiect the ancient Fathers authoritie which is impossible to be true as is manifestlie conuinced by the continuall vse they make of them much more then the Nouellists as it is well knowne to the world And the truth is that the Romanists onelie modestlie confesse especiallie when they are vrged to it by the clamours of the sectaries that some of the Fathers in their single opinions or in such cases as they did not all consent together did sometimes perhapps fall into some erroneous point of doctrine that they are not alwayes in euerie point to be followed in their expositions of scriptures or otherwise in matters nothing concerning the controuersies of these tymes But onelie when they all agree in matters of faith or by graunting that in pointes of practise for example about the Communion in one kinde or priuate Masse they are not all in all matters expreslie for them How beit they knowe they neither are against them all things considered Which if it be duelie pondered is no inconuenience at all in regard that these things such others be mutable according to the diuersitie of times persons consequentlie might be otherwise thē by practised thē by vs. Neyther doe the Romanists when they affirme the Fathers to be for them teach as the knight doth falselie deceitfullie suppose that all the Fathers in euerie point of faith be it transubstantiation or anie other are positiuelie for them but onelie that the whole streame nay nor anie part of them is positiuelie against them in anie such doctrine that in the most pointes they are expresselie wholie for them against the reformers in all Pag. 290. Out of which the reader may collect how impudently the kinght doth belye the foresaid Romanists when he affirmeth that they are reputed no good Catholikes by their owne tenets that teach not contrary to the vniforme consent of Fathers especiallie considering that he himselfe hath already related how the same Romanists take an expresse oath to follow that consent Sect. 4. init And by this it may in like fashion be easilye perceaued how little credit this man deserues when he accuseth his aduersaries of citation of counterfeit authors wheras he himselfe doth deale so vniustly in that nature especially with Bellarmine that he doth not onely mutilate his wordes but also citeth that which is not to be found as by way of example you may see page 290. where he affirmes Bellarmine to professe that they are not to be numbred among Catholiques that thinke the Virgin Mary was conceiued in originall sinne for hauing deligently passed ouer two seuerall times the 15. chap. of the 4. booke de amiss grat which is that same Sir Humfrey citeth I find no such sentence nor words in it but rather the quite contrary doctrine as by his owne words in my margen related clerely appeares Neque desunt qui impudenter affirment ab Ecclesia Romanae defendi cōceptionem immaculatam Virginis Mariae tanquam articulum fidei Bell. loco cit neither is it lesse plainly false which he affirmeth for the conclusion of this section to wit that Bellarmine the Romanists in generall some times condemne the Fathers as counterfeit some times they purge them as if they were full of corruptions that according to seuerall occasions they haue their seuerall deuices to produce them or auoyd them at their pleasure yea that they cōfessing thē to be counterfeit yet produce them for their doctrine all which particulars are so farre from truth that they cry shame on the author so much the more in regard that he his brothers are not a little guiltie in this busines but doe daily offend in the same kinde as by many instances might be proued particularly in that one for example of the Imperfect which passing vnder the name of S. Chrisostome is conuinced by Bellarmine others not to be his in regard it houldeth the Homousians for heretikes yet is it commonly cited by our aduersaries euen by Sir Humfrey himself in diuers places of his workes in which they verifie most fitly that of the Apostle Rom. 2.21 in that while they preach to others that they must not steale they steale themselues Neyther yet doe any of the testimonyes which the kinght produceth for his accusation of Bellarmine in this nature proue his intent nor any thing more then that both Bellarmine other Romanists doe indeed some times produce such authors in fauour of their doctrine as are not by all Romanists held to be of certaine vndoubted authority or at the least not certainly iudged to be the workes of those authors whose names they beare thou ' otherwise althose who cite them hold them for workes of ancient standing not counterfeit at least in the substance of theie authority as the knight doth counterfeitly indeuore to perswade his reader nay Bellarmine whome the knight particularly taxeth in this behalf showeth himself so iust sincere in this point that he is not content eyther alwayes or for the most parte to aduertise the reader when he cites doubtfull authors in his tomes of controuersies but also to take away all occasion of scruple in himself of calumniation in others he hath made a particular censure of such authors as are in anie sort held for doubtfull or Apochriphal or otherwise called in question And so to conclude this the reader may see by what indirect courses Sir Humfrey huddles vp this parte of his by-way for himself freinds to spend their tyme in Sec. 11. In his eleauenth section he indeuoureth to proue that the substantiall pointes of the Romane faith as they are now receiued taught by the Church of Rome were neuer taught by the primitiue Church nor receiued by the ancient Fathers these are the contents of the section but it containes so little substance that we may trulie say it stands onelie for a
operation effect of the Sacraments depend cheiflie principallie vpon the institution of Christe yet they say withall that both for the securitie of the consciences comfort of the receauers c. The Preist must haue a sincere intention to minister the Sacrament not in ieast as Luther some other sectaries doe teach this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the Reformers teach that onelie the instistitution of Christe is sufficient the Preists sincere intention not required this is an vncertaine by-way Nintly the Romanists teach that Christe is our onelie mediatour of redemption who onelie of himself by his owne power knoweth the secrets of our hartes yet withall they say that his Saintes in heauen who in by him doe assuredlie knowe the secrets of our hartes in such things especiallie as cōcerne the good of our soules are our mediatours of intercession by offering our vnworthie prayers to God this is a certaintie safe way to saluation But the reformers calle vpon Christe onelie exclude neglect his saintes seruants whome neuerthelesse he himselfe doth promise to honore in heauen condemning also for impious sacrilegions the saintes intercession for sinners which notwithstanding he doth not condemne for such in anie parte of holie scripture this is an vncertaine by-way Tenthly the Romanists teach we ought to adore Christes bodie present in heauen where he sits on the right hand of his diuine Father yet withall they say it is lawfull yea we ought to adore him whersoeuer he is particularlie in the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the reformers teach that the bodie of Christe ought not to be adored in the Eucharist but onelie in heauen this is an vncertaine by-way Eleauenthly the Romanists as the word of God instructs them confesse themselues to be vnprofitable seruants in regarde neyther they nor their actions bring anie profitte to God who hath no need of anie thing yet they say withall that no man liuing can be iustified by his owne merits that is such merites as proceed purelie from his owne naturall forces actions more then this that all those who expect saluation must beleiue in Christe with a liuelie faith wholely relie vpon his meritts satisfaction as vpon the proper principall cause of their saluation yet they say besides this that altho' they may not relie vpon their owne merits or the satisfactions of the saintes alone neuerthelesse they may vse both the satisfaction of saintes their owne merits as a meanes to saluation by virtue application of the merits satisfaction of Christes passion also that they can by the grace assistance of God obserue his commandements yea by virtue of the same diuine grace performe some workes of supererogation or not commanded by precept of God but counselled by his aduise this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the reformers teach they are vnprofitable seruants which I confesse that in deed they are both to God his Church as euer were anie in the world that no mans good workes altho' they proceed from the speciall grace of God can in anie sort iustifie him before God that euerie Christian must so wholie relie vpon the merites of Christe that he beleiue also that no man can haue anie of his owne euen by the power grace of God that he is bound to expect hope for saluation without anie such workes or merites meerlie by a sole bare faith that his sinnes are remitted in Iesus Christe this is an vncertaine by-way Heere you see a plaine confrontment of diuers particular pointes of controuersie betwixt the Romanists the reformers by way of affirmation negation because I knowe that my aduersarie I are not agreed of a Iudge of our cause I for for my part remit my selfe to the indifferent reader as our onelie vmpiere to determine of the matter not onelie for as much as concernes the contents of this particular section but also of the whole worke who if he consider with due ponderation the proceedings of both parties compare the sincere plaine dealing which I haue vsed with the insincere and double dealing of my aduersarie who hath so perseuered in his indirect courses that euen in the end conclusion of his worke he hath practised no smale partiallitie and fraude in the rehearsall of the doctrine of the Roman Church as particularlie where he affirmes that the Romanists teach that diuers traditions of faith and manners whereof there is no ground nor euidence in the scripture are to be reeeaued with equall reuerence and respect with the scriptures themselues and that they relie partelie vpon their owne merites and satisfaction of Saintes for their saluation and the like I say if the iudicious and vnpartiall reader duelie ponder all the particulars I doubt not but he will easilie discerne the house of truth and safe way to saluation to be where he findes honestie and plainenes and in the contrarie the house of falsitie the by-way where he findes tricks cousinage And therfore the more to facilitate rectifie his iudgment in the businesse I will reduce the whole argument of the knightes booke to a forme of sylogisme in this manner That Religion is a by-way leading the weake vnstable into dangerous pathes of error which is founded vppon coulourable showes of Apochriphall scriptures vnwriten traditious doubt full Fathers ambiguous Councells and pretended Catholique Church But the religion of the Church of Rome is founded vppon colourable showes of apochriphal scriptures vnwritten traditions doubtful fathers ambiguous Councels pretended Catholique Church Therfore the relgiō of the Romā Church is a by-way leading the weake vnstable in to the dangerous pathes of error Now the minor of this sylogisme in which the whole force of the conclusion and by consequence the whole scope and authoritie of the worke depēdes not onely hauing binne in the discourse of my anseere to euerie seuerall section disproued for false counterfeit but alsoe more appeare to be such ex ipsis terminis euen of it selfe by the termes propositions of which it consists to all such as shall consider it with due attention I persuade my selfe the iuditious reader will presently perceaue determine with him selfe that the author of the worke hath quite fayled of his proiect that by composing a by path with a sinister intention to father it Falsely vppon his aduersaryes he hath in stead of that onely framed an ingen for his owne torment And thus hauing attayned not onely to an accomplishment of myne owne desires in finishing my labours but also in some sorte to a satisfaction of the request of my aduersary in regard that at the least in showe as I perceaue by the conclusion of his preface he desireth nothing more then
Angels and Algels pray for vs c. Loe heare the verie same forme of prayer to saints which the Romanist vse soe that the reader may easily iudge how preposteroussy Sir Humfrey hath proceeded in the citation of this auther And howsoeuer it is that the Grecians will not call this proper inuocation of saints yet that is but questio de nomine a question onely aboute the name or worde inuocation which little importes supposing that in reallitie and substance they disegree not from the Romanists but rather are most conformable vnto them euen in the manner of their interpellation And besydes this if wee note the Lutherans wordes to the Patriarke it will euen thēce manifestly appeare what the Grecians defēd touching his point For say the Doctors Non dubium est quin sit de sanctis reuerenter sentiendum loquendum c. non tamen sentimus eos esse inuocandos vt sint nostri mediatores atque iutercedant apud Deum pro nobis qui iam mortui sunt Which wordes of the Lutherans being those which they directly oppose against the doctrine of the Grecians in this particular it is clearer then the leight of the sunne that the Grecians agree with vs and be contrarie to the tenets of Sir Humfrey and other sectaries of our tymes And thus we see that altho' Sir Hūfrey both in this and diuers other places of his bookes doth much labore to persuade the reader that the Grecian Church agrees with the pretented reformers and differ from vs in doctrine of controuersie neuerthelesse his worke wil not fadge it being manifest to them whoe haue viewed the doctrine of their Patriarke in his foresaid anser to the lutherans that excepting the point of the Popes supremacie in which neuerthelesse the Grecians doe not in euerie respect agree with them they doe not fully ioyne with the nouellists of our age in anie one of the questions in controuersie betwixt vs and them And soe I may conclude that Sir Humfrey not obstanding all the fraudes and diuises he hath vsed in laboring to make the Grecians seeme to stand for his faction he doth but onely rase duste to molest and dasle his readers eyes More ouer the same Patriarke page 243. of his anser to the lutherans doth absolutely prnounce that saints are to be invocated for thus he saith Ad haec nos ope diuina respondemus inuocandos esse sauctos quod ipsi etiam auxiliari pessint And he addeth after warde Nec id faciunt solum viui sed etiam mortui And a little lower he subioyneth Inuocatione sanctorum daemones abiguntur morbi fugantur tentationes tolluntur c. Also page 244. honorandi igitur sunt sancti tanquam amici Dei In like maner touching the images of Saints he further addeth A nobis etiam imaginibus ipsorum reuerentium exhiberi aut adorari nemo reprehendit c. That is none of vs reprehendeth that reuerence or adoration be exhibited to their images Meaning of the Saincts And in the page following he saith in this manner At inquit aliquis Deus dixit Deum tuum adorabis illi soli seruies non facies vllam similitudinem He ansereth thus Est vero ita sunt hoec lege diuina sancita verumtamen qui hoc praecipit Deus idem docet nos in deuteronomio Non adorabis ipsa non seruies And page 254. Soe he speakes Vt igitur qui non honorat filium vt ait dominus non honorat patrem sic qui non honorat imaginem nec illum quem imago refert honorat And in the same page Qui non adorat Crucem eum nequidem Dominum crucifixum adorare iustum est Non quidem certe naturam ligni c. Sed memoriam picturam perpessorum c. Finally of merit he saith thus Haec similia sunt ob quae homo regno coelesti dignus habetur That is these the like ar these thing for which a man is held worthie of the celestiall kingdome thus much touching the abuse of the Grecian Patriarke by Sir Humfrey But one of the grossest errours that I finde committed by our aduersarie in the Doctrine of the latinists or Romanists is in his page 234. where he hath these wordes Others as namely Antisiodorensis Biel teache that neither the Saints pray for vs neither are we to praye to them Thus Sir Humfrey further adding that he may safely conclude these and the like reasons considered that inuocation of Sains wants antiquitie vniuersalitie succession And yet I hauing examined the matter taken a viewe of the 30. Lection of Gabriel Biel which is the place the knight cites for his hallucination I finde that author expressely teacheth the affirmatiues of both those negatiues which he falsely affirmes him and Antisiodore to maintaine Wherfore touching the first proposition Biel in the place cited hath these wordes for his conclusion Credendum est igitur nullatenus dubitandum sanctos in patria intercedere nobisque suffragari merito ac prece siue voto And for proofe of the same he addeth thus Quae veritas authoritate ostenditur ratione authoritate vtriusque testamenti veteris noui simul sanctorum Patrum And before his conclusion he saith fuit haeresis quorumdam nimia temeritate omnem sanctorū cultum penitus tollere volentium qui nullum sanctis honorem impendi debere mussitabant neque vllas ad eos preces dirigi nec eorum reliquias venerari Huius author haeresiarcha primus fuit Jouinianus c Which wordes altho they doe sufficiently declare what this author holdes of the second parte of this point yet doth he more expressely vtter the same towardes the end of this lection saying ex quibus patet preces nostras spemque consequendae beatitudinis per mediatores sanctos in Coelo inanes non esse sed ordine à Deo iustituto nos ad eorum auxilia confugere debere debita veneratione eos semper implorare By all which wordes Biels doctrine is foe plaine for the Romanists soe plaine against Sir Humfrey that I am verily persuaded he either neuer read this author touching this particular or if he read him he did not vnderstand him And the like I say of Antisiodore whoe being in the same place cited I fynd that he himselfe teacheth quite contrarie to that which the knight chargeth him with For wheras he is alledgeth by Sir Hūfrey in the 4. parte of his summe lib. 3. q. 6. to resolue that neither the saints doe praye for vs neither are wee to praye to them it is true Antisiodore relates the opinion of manie whoe say that neither are wee to praye to the saints nor they praye for vs but onely improperly to wit because we pray God that the merits of his saincts may helpe vs whēce it is consequent that their merits may helpe vs Neuerthelesse for his owne resolution of the question he puts the contrarie proposition saying
chapter of the third booke of Bellarmin de verbo Dei pag. 15. And of his owne by way page 503. And secondly in the same Gretzers defense of the first chapter of the first booke of Bellarmine verbo Dei In the first place he abuseth that author in that he produceth him to proue that the Church is finally resolued in to the Pope as head bodie of the same And yet in the verie same chapter page 1456. next leafe Gretzer plainely teacheth that our faith is lastely resolued in to diuine reuelatiō or in to God reueiling or that which is the same in to the prime veritie in which our faith is founded His wordes are these in latin Nam sides nostra vltima resoluitur in reuelationem diuinam seu in Deum reuelantem seu quod idem est in primam veritatem qua nititur fides nostra tanquam fundamento paimario tametsi non inficior fidem quoque resolui in Ecclesiam seu Ecclesiae propositionem altho I doe nor denye that faith is resolued in to the Church or the proposition of the Church c. Immediately after this he saith Sed haec resolutio non est omniuo vltima in principium plane substantiale essentiale sed tantum vt in fundamentum secundarium seu vt in conditionem sine qua fides neque recipitur neque retinetur And euen in these wordes by the knight the Pope alone is not put by Gretzerus for the whole Church but he doth onely say he denyeth not that the Romanists vnderstand by the Pope the Church in one acception not absolutely Which is manifest out of his wordes in the precedent page where he saith Intelligimus etiam nomine Ecclesiae Pontificem pro tempore viuentem quod ipse congregare conuocare potest Concilium hunc summi Pastoris aliorum Praesulum caetum dicimus esse immediatum ordinarium visibilem omnium Controuersiarum quae de religione existunt Iudicem By which wordes it is apparent that Gretzerus doth not take the Popes person alone for the head bodie of the Church but for the head of the bodie of the Church How be it I doe not denye but that the Pope as head cheefe parte of the whole Church may by a senecdoche be taken for the whole Church as he is accepted both by Gretzer and other diuines but yet this acception will nothing profit Sir Humfrey whose wise designe in this place is to persuade his simple reader that the Romanists take the Pope alone without a generall Councell truely and properly for the whole Roman Catholique Church which is his owne phamtasticall dreame not our doctrine In the other place Sir Humfrey plainely falsifyeth this author for wheras Gretzerus onely redargueth his aduersaries whoe falsely affirmes that what soeuer the deuill suggesteth to this or that Pope in particular euen against manifest scripture the Romanists receiue it for Gods worde saying that these things be crepitacula nugantium Praedicantium the clappers of prating preachers that in truth wee Romanists onely receiue reuerence for the worde of God that which the cheefe Bishop doth by Cathedrall definition propose vnto vs as the supreme master Iudge of controuersies Sir Humfrey by fraudulent displaceing of the worde onely putting it before the worde of God quyte peruertes the sense making his reader beleaue that Gretzer affirmes that onely to be the worde of God which the Pope proposeth and as if they held not the scripture it selfe to be Gods worde the contrarie of which neuerthelesse the Iesuit deliuers immediately before in expresse termes saying that it meaning the scripture is had reuerenced by the Pontificians for the worde of God which is soe well knowne that the impudencie of the Predicants can not denye it And thus much touching the corruption abuse of Gretzere by the calumnious knight Moreouer wheras Sir Humfrey cites Castro in his 12. booke as affirming the denyall of Purgatorie to be a most notorious knowne error of the Greciās Armeniās that author is abused by him for he meanes onely of the moderne Grecians not of the ancient Grecian Fathers as the knight giues his reader to vnderstand falsely applying Canus wordes page 181. to the Greek Church of the first ages soe that here is plaine forgerie In like fashion in his 536. page of the Deuia he falsifyes the same author lib. 1. cap. 9. For where Castro saith quamuis enim teneamur ex fide credere verum Petri successorem esse supremum totius Ecclesiae pastorem for those wordes quamuis teneamur that is altho' we are bound Sir Humfrey translates admit we are bounde to beleeue that point as if Castro had doubted of it of which neuerthelesse he makes not anie question but onely saith men are not obledged to beleeue by faith that this or that particular person is true Pope Neither yet doth he denye that euerie Pope hath infallibilitie in a reight line of succession frō S. Peter as the knight doth falsely taxe him but he affirmes onely that it is not a matter of faith soe to beleeue of euerie Pope in particular And therfore he addeth that altho' he were not to be accounted an heretike that should denye obediēce vnto this or that particular Pope to wit Clemēt or Leo yet should he not for doubt of his election sustract him selfe from his obedience And soe we see that here his no other argument then of want of honest dealing in our aduersarie And yet in his 21. section of the deuia page 551. he traduceth the same Alfonsus as if he had scoffed at the Dominicans in generall for that thay were wonte to brag before the people that he that hath once receiued their habit can not erre or fayle in fairh Wher it is true that Castro reprehends sharpely not without reason some particular religious men that vsed such speeches but he is soe farre from saying they are Dominicans that he expressely addes that least he should seeme to taxe the whole order he purposely conceiled the name Ne hoc toti ordini ac societati impressisse videar nomen ordinis ex industria subticui this he did of Charitie But Sir Humfrey contrarily is soe farre from the exercise of that great virtue that he will needs make Castro to impose that vpon a whole order which he meant onely of some particular person of persons Which is a trick of a iuggler thou ' a verie pore one Neither can I conceiue except it were by reuelation howe Sir Humfrey came to know that Castro spake of the Dominicans more then of anie other religious order but let that passe for one of his great miracles Touching the mariage of priests cassander is corrupted by Sir Hūfrey in the 23. art of his consult p. 990. where for antiquae consuetudinis immutandae he puteth in English the change of the lawe and soe leauing out the worde ancient as alsoe the wordes
had an implicit faith of all those obiects which they nowe confesse them selues to beleeue according to that deductiue manner or else they had noe faith at all of them before they were deduced whence it farther followes that euer since they made their foresaid illations or consequences their faith is newe and quyte distinct from their owne faith in former tymes the absurditie of which most necessarie sequele I remit to the censure of the reasonable and iudicious learned reader to determine By occasion of this I desire the reader to take yet more cleare notice of the great peruersitie of the proposterous Nouellists who as they reueile their violēce in reprouing the foresaid receiued doctrine of implicit or inexpressed faith soe likewise they ar no lesse peremptorie in defending their owne newe distinction of fundamental and not fundamental points in Religion according to which their position they obstinately maintaine the Church can erre in matters of faith that is in such points of faith as in their conceite ar not foundamentall But against the falsitie of this distinction I argue first vpon their owne supposed principle to wit that nothing is to be beleeued in matters of faith which is not founde in scripture either explicitly and clearely or by cleare and certaine consequence wherfore this doctrinal distinctiō of theirs being a matter of faith and yet not founde in scripture in either of those two manners related plaine it is that according to the pretended reformers doctrine it neither deserues faith nor credit More ouer this distinction is soe newely coyned by our aduersaries and soe farre from hauing anie foundation either in scripture or ancient doctors that I neuer read anie mention of it in the first and cheefe establishers of the pretended reformatiō Onely Chamier who is in deed a violent defender of Caluinisme in his booke de natura Ecclesiae Cap. 13. num 11. seemes plainely to suppose the same distinction in substance affirming that the Catholique Church can erre licet non in fundamento salutis tho' not in the foundation of saluation Yet Chamier haueing writ his Panstratia but of late yeares either our English Nouellists receiued it from him or inuented it them selues not long before soe that the noueltie of it a lone were sufficient to conuince it of vntrueth and vanitie And altho' I might iustely take exceptions at the worde it selfe for the newnesse of it according to the Apostles counsel to Timomothie to auoyde profane nouelties of wordes in regarde the worde not fundamentals as it is applyed to matters of faith and thee errors of the Church ther in by our aduersaries it is a kynde of profanation both of diuine faith it selfe which is truely fundamental in al respects and also of the authoritie of the Church which likewise is infallible as much in one matter as an other Neuerthelesse my cheefe intention is not to insiste in the reproofe of wordes which I graunt may vpon occasion and for better declaration of a trueth be inuented and vsed by the Churches authoritie but I onely stande vpon the sense or obiect of them directely conuinceing the matter signifyed by those wordes not fundamental in faith to be repugnant both to scripture and Fathers That which I proue by a seconde argument of the same nature to wit because the scripture expressely teaches that 1. Tim. 3. Ecclesia est the Church is a pallar or firmament of truth And our Sauior promisseth his Father will giue to his Apostles and their successors an other Paraclete the spirit of trueth to remaine with them for euer Ioan. 14. Ioan. 16. which same diuine Spirit as he him selfe declares afterwardes in the 16. chapter will teache them all trueth which vniuersal terme all includes and signifyes both fundamental and not fundamental truethes and consequently it expressely excludeth this vaine distinction of the nouellists To which purpose S. Cyrill vpon the 10. chapter of the same Euangelist speakes most fittly and appositly saying that althou ' in this life we knowe onely in parte as S. Paule affirmes non manca tamen sed integra veritas in hac parua cognitione nobis refulsit yet not a meamed or imperfect but an intyre true faith shined vnto vs in this smale knowledge And the place now cited out of the first to Tim. 3. is by all interpreters of scripture both ancient and moderne expounded of the firmenes and stabilitie which the Church hath by the assistance of the holie Goste in her deliuerie of true doctrine to her particular members conformable to which sense Tertullian to omit the rest for breuitie in the 28. of his prescriptions hath a most fine sentence as it were in derision of those who teach the vniuersal or Catholique Churche can erre in matters of faith Could not saith hee the holie Goste haue respected her soe much as to haue induced her into all truth he hauing ben sent by Christ to this ende hauing ben requyred by his Father to be the Doctor of trueth should villicus Christi vicarius the stewarde the vicar of Christ haue neglected the office of God suffering the Churches in the meane tyme to vnderstande and beleeue otherwise then he him selfe preached by the Apostles Thus plainely generally absolutely ancient Tertullian of the infallibilitie of the Catholique Churche in points of doctrine and faith And nowe farther supposing that al these passages both of the scripture their expositors ar absolute general sans limitation it is most apparent they can admit no such distinction in their true sense interpretation but that at the leaste the catholique Churche can not teache or beleeue anie error at all in such things as ar contained within the total obiect of faith in which ther can not possible be anie parte or partial which is not fundamental by reason that all kinde of diuine faith is the verie foundation of Religion christian iustice according to the saying of S. Augustin Domus Dei fide fundatur the house of God is founded in faith if the foundation of the house of God were faultie it would doubtlesse fall to ruine contrarie to his owne promisse or affiirmation viz. That the gates of hell shal not preuaile against it Neither is it auaileable for our aduersaries to saye that the Church can not erre in the cheefe articles of her faith as ar the Trinitie the Incarnation of Christ which ar fundamentals but in such points as ar not fundamental as ar the reall presence iustification the true quantitie sense of Canonical scriptures other such like matters in controuersie with vs them the Church may teache erroneous false doctrine For thir euasion I replie it is grounded not in inuincible but in vincible grosse ignorance of the nature of true faith which being in it selfe one simple or single entitie or essence as according to the doctrine of the Apostle God Baptisme ar Vna fides vnum Baptisma vnus Deus how different soeuer its obiect be
how smale probabilitie there is to imagin that those glorious champions of Christ who so valerouslie suffered torments died for him in the Roman Church manie of them at Rome it selfe could possiblie belong to anie other Church in the world then to that Church which as in that tyme it had the name of Roman Church so doth it still remaine with the same appellation not otherwise then by a continuall succession of the Popes of Rome three thirtie of which as eloquent Campian trulie obserueth were put to death for their faith which their faith as it is manifest partlie by their owne workes partelie by the authenticall histories of their martyrdomes was the verie same according to the manner I haue before declared which nowe is tought in the present Church of Rome And if this be not so if those glorious martyrs were not defenders of that Roman faith which by succession of pastours is deriued arriued to this our time I demaund of our aduersaries of what other faith they were for of the reformed faith they could not possible bee in regarde that none of them either tought in their life or died for the defence of Iustification by faith onelie or for the deniall of the reall presence of the bodie blood of Christ in the Eucharist nor for denying that there is anie other worde of God but onelie scripture Nor for affirming that the images of Christ his Saints are Idols or that they who honore them adore idols or stickes stones or that the Pope was Antichrist nor doe wee finde in anie historie either anie of this nor yet that the foresayd martyrs suffered for these or anie other point of the reformers doctrine which is contrarie to the faith of the present Roman Church Wherefore the sayd reformers must necessarilie confesse that the ancient martyrs died either for ours or for no other Christian doctrine consequentlie that they are eyther ours or no martyrs at all And if they were Popes of Rome as you Puritās your selues cānot denie how could they possible be yours who beleeue the Pope is Antichrist are so farre from that kynde of gouernemēt that you doe not willingly admit eyther Pope Prince or Prelate but onelie a consistoriall Anarchie without head or feet And he that shall duelie ponder these particulars doubtlesse his conscience will tell him howe vniustelie Sir Humfrey indeuoreth to wreist from the Roman Church those rich prises And let this suffice for the censure of this section to shewe that the Romanists by their claime to the martyrs of the primatiue Church pretend nothing but their due THE XVI PERIOD THE 17. section containeth an ansere to an obiection of the Romanists drawne from the opinion of Protestants touching the Saluation of professed Romanists where Sir Humfrey telleth vs he is come to the greatest wonder And I confesse the wonder which the knight proposeth is great but it being of his owne making it is not hee that ought to wonder at it but rather in my opiniō he should leaue that to others And truelie it is most wonderfull to mee to heare that the Romanists themselues should confesse their owne doctrine to be different from the ancient Church in manie principall points of faith but this hauing alreadie ben demonstrated to be false feigned by Sir Humfrey the greatest wonder of all wonders is that he should haue the face to make a wonder of his owne so often repeated vntruthes It is true the Romanists constantlie hould that neyther Lutheran nor Caluinist nor anie other heretike or Scismatike dying in his heresie obstinatelie can be saued for so they say with him that could commit no rashe iudgement he that doth not beleeue is alreadie iudged Qui autem non credit iam iudicatus est Ioan. 3.18 Neuerthelesse wee Romanists doe not denie but that probably some simple people may liue in heresie yet not be damned at the least for heresie yet be saued by ignorance if with all they be free from other mortall sinnes eyther because they neuer lost their baptismall grace or if they lost it by contrition they recouer it againe which altho' it be not impossible yet is it verie full of dangerous difficultie morallie speaking almost a Metaphisicall case for such I leaue it Sir Humfrey proceedeth on babling aboute a Citie seated vpon seuen mountaines which he fondelie houldeth for a marke of the false Church applyeth it to the Roman Church But if Rome were the seate of the false Church because it is planted vpon seuen mountaines then how scaped it from that staine all those fiue hundreth yeares in which the reformers themselues graunt it was the mother Church Iacobus Rex epist monit Neyther hath the Roman Church anie such marke of assuming supreme authoritie ouer Kings Princes as the knight doth odiouslie affirme but onelie with due respect humility vseth that authoritie ouer them which Christ himselfe did conferre vpon her in such manner as is most conducing to the Saluation of their owne soules their vassals according to the rules of Christian prudence the precept of charitie Yet not to dominier ouer them or their subiects in anie sorte much lesse to approue or allowe of their oppression either by Massacre or anie other vnlawfull meanes as the sectaries especiallie the Puritans doe vse calumniouslie to obiect notobstanding that none in the world are more guiltie then them selues in those practices of which we haue too manie examples in Scotland France other places euen against Kings Princes which doubtlesse caused King Iames of great Britanie to speake so plaine as he did both in his bookes ordinarie discourses of that particular Nihil nisi calumniam seditionem spirātes Basilic dor After this Sir Humfrey descends to diuers particulars demaūdeth whether he his fellowes be accursed for maintaining them or no and whether the Romanists be blessed for such such points which they defende against the sectaries And thus he runneth a long betweene blessing cursing till he concludes casting the curses vpon the Romanists the blessings vpon his owne Congregation But because ther is little or nothing but such false stuffe as I haue alreadie examined cēsured because I haue quite surfeited with so frequēt repetitiō of the same subiect I onely saye in generall as he is blessed whoe heareth or obeyeth the Church in all things in regarde that by obeying the Church he obeyeth Christ whoe blesseth them that obey him So contrarily he that disobeyeth the Church in one onely thing he is accursed according to the wordes of Christ him helfe if he will not heare the Church let him be vnto to the like an Ethnike or Publican Mat. 18. And so Sir Humfrey had no reason to maruell if the Romanists accounte him his fellowes accursed because they refuse to imbrace obey anie point of that doctrine which the most