that we beleeue the scripture because of the Church if he come as néere to the meaning of Cusanus as he dooth to his wordes that he thinke the scriptures credit and autoritie dependeth of the Church and the Church imparteth autoritie canonicall as Pighius expresly saith vnto the scripture he hath a harder forhead then I thought he had Yet Andradius the expounder and patrone of the faith of Trent speaketh much more modestly and religiously to geue him his due praise of the autoritie of the scriptures Which first he acknowledgeth that they haue not from men but from God not from the Church but from the holy Ghost and then he concludeth thereof that it is detestable to teach that either profane bookes may be made canonicall by the Church Bishops or such as are certainly canonicall may be refused Of the which things to affirme the one he saith it is a point of notorious impudencie the other of madnesse and impietie not to be suffered O that Andradius had likewise detested the cuppe of the whoores abominations in other things Or sith he is dead I would to God that all Christians who of godly mind mislike somewhat in her and who dooth not mislike somewhat would mislike the rest of all her filthinesse too nor onely be Christians almost as Agrippa but like both almost and altogether to Paul as Paul did wish to him To the which end that I might help them forward as much as lay in me I haue doone the best I can to heale the dangerous humors of opinions which do so anoy the tast of séely soules that they thinke the heauenly bread to be poyson and abhorre the swéetest foode of life as woormwood These humours that I speake off are peruerse errours which seduce them from the truth in that article of our Créede I beleeue the holy catholike Church For some are perswaded that the name of holy Church belongeth not to the whole company of the Christian people but to the Ministers onely and Bishops of the Church no not to the Ministers of euery Church neither but of the Church of Rome euen the Pope and Cardinals Whom to haue gotten by a certaine custome to be called the church and that the church had doon receiued and ordeined that which was do on receiued and ordeined by them Marsilius Patauinus did note in his age and it is too well knowen vnto men of yéeres Other some and they of the lernedder sort acknowledge that the Church doth signifie the company of faithfull men and beléeuers but they wil haue that company to bée a people assembled by their own Bishop and cleauing to the head that is to the Pope least the Papall State be any way impaired They comprehende therefore all such within that company as doo professe the faith both the good and badde holy and profane godly and hypocrites There are some also who thinke that by this point to beleeue the holy church the churches authoritie is commended to vs that we should trust credite and obey the church which the Councell of Trent it séemeth would insinuate though somewhat darkely and distrustfully But Bristow therein dooth beare the bell away For he the more easily to deceiue English men at least the simpler if not all worketh treacherie with the dooble signification of wordes expounding this article I beleeue the Church as if the meaning of it were I trust the Church betwéene the which things there is great difference and that very manifest in the Gréeke and Latin though in our mother tounge not so Yet this man was created Doctor at Dâ—way and some doo account him a man of much value O wretched professors of the Doway-schoole that created such a Doctour but more wretched Papistes if they geue credit to such a Doctour who whether he be sophister or sclaunderer more notable it is harde to say A learned man among the Heathens if I remember well said that physicians can not finde a medicine against the byting of a sclaunderer But because the things are possible with God which are impossible with men therefore vpon confidence of his gracious goodnes I haue assayed to make one against the biting of this sclaunderer and of the like in the fourth Conclusion wherein I haue declared setting apart the Prelates of the Church of Rome and goates mingled with shéepe that the holy Catholike Church which we beleeue is the whole companie of Gods elect and chosen Moreouer least the painting of the Romish Church should make vnskilfull young men to be enamored of her when they should heare many commend her as Catholike Apostolike and sound in faith to take this visard also away from her face wash away her painting with water of the holy Ghost I haue added the fifth Conclusion that the Church of Rome is not the Catholike Church nor a sound member of the Catholike church A matter cléere in truth but hard to be perswaded specially to louers for Cupide is blinde And as he saith in Theocritus The things that are not faire seeme faire to him that is in loue Daphnis in the Poet saith so to Polyphemus we by experience haue found it true in Bristow For he being besotted with the loue of the whoore is not content to say that she alone is Catholike that errour were more tolerable at least it were an error common to him with many But he affirmeth farther that the Church might be was called Apostolike for this cause onely that we might be directed thereby as by a marke to the Church of Rome founded by the Apostles Peter and Paul the onely Church now left of all the Churches Apostolike Which flattering spéech of this louer the Pope of Rome himselfe the bridegroome of his Church though doating on his bride too yet refuseth acknowledging that the Church was called Apostolike by the Fathers in the Creede to note the beginning of the Church which it hath from the Apostles because they deliuered once the Churches doctrine and spread it abroad through all the world As for them that geue the title of Catholike to the Church of Rome they must take aduisement how to cléere their boldnesse from attaint of sacriledge who decke an adulteresse with the spoiles of the spouse of Christ or to thinke the best of the Church of Rome who spoile the mother to decke the daughter and her not the best with great wrong and iniurie to the rest of the sisters For the name of Catholike dooth not appertaine to this or that Church but to the Church vniuersall continued through all nations ages and prouinces from Adam vnto vs and to our posteritie as the Councell of Trent and the expounders of the Councell such is the force of truth doo confesse plainly But the chiefest errour that is to be abated is theirs who are perswaded that the Church of Rome is of right
or the hauing of it corrupted In the which respect Christ who giueth charge that his sheepe be fedde chargeth that they be taught to obserue those thinges which he commanded his Apostles And Peter hauing shewed that the faithfull are begotten a new by Gods word exhorteth them to desire the milke of the word the sincere milke not corrupt with any trumperie that they may grow thereby And they who are warned to heare the Pharises sitting in the chaire of Moses are warned to beware of the leauen of the Pharises Wherefore a church that will be whole and sound must neither be famished with want of Gods worde nor haue it corrupted But the church of Rome doth bring in both corruption and want of the worde nor onely bring them in but also maintaine them obstinatly as wholesome The church of Rome therefore is not whole and sound nay she séemeth rather to be madde frantike For she bringeth in corruption of the worde to beginne with that by mingling and adulterating the word of God with mans word not one way but sundrie First in that she giueth autoritie canonicall that is diuine autoritie to the bookes called apocrypha which are humane Against the truth of the holy scripture which is gainsaid flatly by certaine pointes in the apocrypha against the cléere euidence of thinges therein recorded which by their repugnancie one vnto another doo shew that men were autours of them against the consent iudgement of the church of the old church wholy and of the best part of the new Secondly in that she receyueth traditions of men with equall reuerence and religious affection as she doth the scripture As though the holy scripture the most exact perfect squire of Gods will and rule of righteousnesse and wisedome sufficed not for faith and maners or the spirit of God could gainsay him selfe which must be imported by this of traditions some whereof do fight one against another some against the scripture In sooth this point is handled with a dutifull care and regarde of scripture which hath no greater reuerence at Rome then traditions and that all traditions are not obserued there it is playne by the Fathers whom them selues alleage Thirdly in that she willeth the Latin translation of the Bible commonly called S. Ieroms to be receiued throughout as sacred and canonicall and not to be refused on any pretense Whereas yet to let go the iudgement of S. Ierom other ancient Fathers the Papists them selues such as are most expert in the toungs amongst them acknowledge that translation to haue missed sometimes the meaning of the holy Ghost and not the words onely Euen Pagninus namely in the old testament Budaeus in the new Andradius and Arias Montanus in them both Fourthly in that about expounding of the scripture she condemneth all senses and meanings thereof which are against the sense that her selfe holdeth or against the Fathers consenting all in one Whereby it falleth out that the sense and meaning of the holy Ghost shall be refused often but meanings and senses deuised by men though crossing one an other yet if they be currant for the time and practised as a Cardinall saith shall go for authenticall the baggage which the Schoole men haue sâ—iled Diuinitie with out of the Philosophers puddles and their owne shall be accounted holy the things which some Fathers haue handled more soundly shal be set aside as humane inuentions though they agrée with Gods word but other in the which they were ouerséene through weaknes of naturall affection or reason shall be approued as Gods worde though they procéede from mans fansie Fifthly in that she coopleth with the commandements of God the commandements of the church that is to say of men and that is more she coopleth therewith these commandements not as things indifferent but as necessarie to saluation So what soeuer filth deuotion as it is named indéede superstition hath brought or shall bring in that must be déemed to be pure religion and in vaine shall the Lord be worshipped of vs as of the Iewes in olde time with the commandements of men and good intentes as they call them which are abominable to God shall be preferred before obedience voluntarie religion condemned by the scriptures shall be taken vp as a most holy seruice of the Lord. Last of all in that she appointeth images to be had in churches for the instruction of the people as bookes so one supposeth which idiotes may reade in O miserable idiotes the instructing of whom is committed to a stocke which instructeth to vanities whose teacher is an image that is a teacher of lyes if we beléeue the Prophets And is it any maruell if they be naughtie scholers whose masters are dumbe idols the doctours of errours The church of Rome therefore hath brought in such corruption of the word of God what by the apocrypha what by traditions what by faultes of the translation what by the sense of her holding what by commandements of the church what by the teachers of idiotes that she séemeth to haue mingled the sustenance of life not with filth but with poyson and the wine of God not with water but with venoome and the bread of Christ not with leauen but with rats-bane or rather if I might speake so mens-bane As for want of Gods word which is the other cause of sicknesse how wretchedly she hath pined her children therewith our auncestours felt by long experience and aged men may remember and histories of the church doo witnesse and they who are vnder the Popish yoke know For though she permitted sometimes in some places perhaps a small parcell of the word of God if I may call that Gods word which sauoured more of mens deuises then of God to be touched in the presence and assembly of the people by common cryers preachers such as they were yet she hath not onely not permitted to Christians but also hath hindered with no lesse impietie then inhumanitie yea and hindereth still that abundance and plentie which they ought to haue as it is writen Let the worde of Christ dwell in you plenteously with all wisedome For whereas this plenty is gotten obteined by two speciall meanes to weete by hearing by reading the one commanded all in Church-assemblies publikely the other allowed priuatly to euery man at home both vsed and approued by the rules of the holy Ghost and the practise of holy companies and the iudgement of holy churches our Romanists pretending that horrible confusion will ensue thereof and the church of Christ shall be like to Babylon not to Ierusalem as Cardinall Hosius saith if the holy scriptures be read in mother toongs doo kéepe them sealed vp in a straunge toong and sound them out so in their Church-assemblies that
infallible the councels interpretation And these meanes he saith are the onely certaine sure infallible meanes of vnderstanding and expounding the Scripture aright As for other meanes which learned men do vse such as you obserued out of S. Austin he graunteth they are profitable but deceitfull many waies if ech of them be seuerally taken by it selfe Which he proueth in particular by the chiefest of them first the weighing of circumstances what goeth before what commeth after next the wordes and kinde of speeches vsed in the Scriptures thirdly the conferēce of places togither one to be lightned by an other fourthly recourse to the fountaines of the Greeke and the Hebrue text Wherefore though I acknowledge your way to be a good way and such as I am well content to walke in when these our waies shall lead me to it notwithstanding sith it is common to vs with all Heretikes yea with Iewes and Painims who do all conferre places obserue the kinde of spéeches looke on the Gréeke and Hebrue fountaines marke what goeth before what commeth after and such like thinges and yet they are verye farre from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures I will my selfe practise it when I shall see good but there is no reason of yours that can enforce me to allow it simply Rainoldes The treatise of your Doctor against the Protestants opinion is like the army of Antiochus prepared against the Romans verie great and huge of men of many nations but white liuered souldiours neither so strong with armour as glistering with gold and siluer Antiochus him selfe was amazed at it and thought it vnuincible so did the simple fooles of his country too But the Romans contemned it and Annibal iested at it The name of Protestants which he vseth tauntingly as all one with Heretikes wée are no more ashamed of then were the Prophets and Apostles whom the Spirit of God hath honored with that title because they did make a protestation of their faith vpon the like occasion as did the faithfull in Germany when they were noted by that name The Protestants opinion I haue alreadie shewed to be the opinion of the auncient Protestants the Fathers the Apostles the holie Ghost who spake by them If you call it an errour we are content to erre with them If he thinke it an heresie we are no better then Paul who in such heresie serued God The ground which he layeth for the disproofe of it is such that it séemeth his wits and he had made a fray when he layed it He saith that the scripture ought to be expounded by the rule of faith and therfore not by scripture onely Which is in effect as if a man should say the church must be taught by liuing creatures endued with reason and therefore not by men onely For as a liuing creature endued with reason and a man is all one which euerie childe knoweth by the principles of logicke so the rule of faith and scripture is all one doth not your Doctor know it It is a principle of diuinitie deliuered by S. Austin whom he pretendeth chiefly in this point to follow Hart. And doth he not follow him Doth he not alleage S. Austins owne wordes In a doubtfull place of scripture let a man seeke the rule of faith which rule hee hath learned of plainer places of the scriptures and of the authoritie of the church to proue that the rule of faith must be fetched out of the authoritie of the church also not out of scriptures onely Rainoldes Yes he doth alleage S. Austins wordes in déed but as the false witnesses alleaged Christes wordes of destroying the temple and building it in three dayes the wordes against the meaning Which tricke the law noteth as an abusing of the lawe yet is it common with your Doctor For as Christ when he spake of raising the temple by the temple meant his bodie the witnesses did wrest it to the temple of Ierusalem so the authoritie of the church is mentioned by S. Austin as teaching scriptures onely your Doctor alleageth it as teaching somewhat beside the scriptures Hart. This is strange that S. Austin by the authoritie of the church meant no more then by the plainer places of the scriptures For so much you séeme to say in effect Rainoldes Be it strange yet is it true For him selfe declareth that to be his meaning not onely by the rest of his whole treatise wherein he doth establish the scriptures alone for the rule of faith to shew the sense of doubtfuller places by the plainer but also by the ende of this your owne sentence which Stapleton in alleaging it either negligently passed or craftily suppressed vnlesse the fault perhaps be in some other with whose eyes he read it For after these wordes let him seeke the rule of faith which rule he hath learned of plainer places of the scriptures and of the authoritie of the church it followeth in S. Austin Of which rule we haue sufficiently entreated in the first booke when we spake of thinges Now in that discourse to which he referreth vs he spake not of any thing as taught by the church but what is in the scripture Wherefore in these wordes by the authoritie of the church he meant not any thing beside the scripture If he did shew it If he did not acknowledge it Hart. He did For in the first booke where he spake of things hee shewed that the doctrine of the Trinitie is comprised in that rule of faith Which yet is not expresly set downe in the scriptures Rainoldes Expresly What meane you by this word expresly Hart. I meane that it is not expressed in the scriptures Rainoldes What Not the doctrine of the blessed Trinitie the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost Hart. Not all that our faith doth hold of the Trinitie Rainoldes God forbid that we should hold of such a mysterie more then he teacheth by his word Hart. Certainly S. Austin writing to an Arian who denied that God the sonne is consubstantiall with the Father saith that as we reade not in the holie scriptures the Father vnbegotten yet it is defended that it must be said in lyke sort it may be that neither consubstantiall is founde written there and yet being said in the assertion of faith may bee defended And again disputing against Maximinus a Bishop of the Ariās Giue me testimonies saist thou where the holy Ghost is worshipped as though by those things which we do read we vnderstood not some thinges also which wee reade not But that I be not inforced to seeke many where hast thou read God the Father vnbegotten or vnborne And yet it is true Rainoldes And thinke you that S. Austin meant by these spéeches that the scriptures teach not that God the holy Ghost is to be worshipped God the Sonne is of one substance with the Father God the Father is
agnos vt primò quodam lacte pascendos nec ouiculas vt secundò sed oues pascere iubetur perfectiores vt perfectior gubernaret That is to say When the Lord had asked Peter the third time Doost thou loue me hee is commanded now to feede not the lambes as at the first time who must be fedde with certaine milke not the litle sheepe as the seconde time but to feede the sheepe that he a man more perfit might gouerne the more perfit So that the whole flocke of Christ was committed to Peter to be fedde as well the small as the great both the lay men who as lambes are fedde themselues and féede not others the Priests and Clergie who as sheepe doo féede the lambes but are fedde of the shepheard Rainoldes The lambes and the sheepe doo signifie two kindes of Christians the one yonger and tenderer which néedeth to be taught the first principles of religion as it were to be fedde with milke the other riper and elder fit to learne the déeper mysteries of faith to be fedde with strong meat This S. Ambrose noted well in the commandement that Christ gaue to Peter Though the difference which he maketh betwéene the second and the third the litle sheepe and the sheepe was either an ouersight in the Gréeke copie or a fansie of some interpreter Which I would not mention but that you bid me set downe his owne wordes in Latin as though there were some mysterie in them which yet your selues are wont to make no account of vnlesse your Roman reader hath spied more in it who saith that the text ought to be corrected and read as Ambrose cited it But your glose of the lay-men to be signified by lambes and by the sheepe the Priestes and Clergie dooth varie from the text not of Christ onely but of Ambrose too For wheras they speake of the lambes and the sheepe both which the flocke consisteth of you interpret their words of the sheepe and the shepheards And whereas all Pastors are bounde to feede both sheepe and lambes you make as though the rest must féede none but lambes and all the sheepe were Peters From dreaming whereof S. Ambrose was so farre that he saith of the shéepe which Christ commanded to be fedde Peter did not only receiue the charge of them but himselfe and all Bishops receiued it with Peter Wherefore you should consider that in Christes commission vnto the Apostles they are not considered as shéepe but as shepheards and therefore not them-selues to be fed of any but all to féede others So when they abode togither in Ierusalem they sed the church in common with the doctrine of the Apostles not Peter them and they the rest And when they went thence into other countries they went not as shéepe with Peter their shepheard but as seuerall shepheards to shéepe of all nations Hart. Be it so that Christ spake in his commission to them as to shepheards Yet were they also shéepe of the flocke of Christ. And therefore he might well appoint a shepheard ouer them Rainoldes And was not Peter also a shéepe of Christs flock And must not our Sauiour appoint by this reason a shepheard ouer him also For if all sheepe need it why not S. Peter If some néed it not why the Apostles But it is true that as they were shéepe so néeded they sometimes to bee fedde the best of them and this did Christ prouide for though not with your policie not by setting one as Pastor ouer all but by geuing charge of euery one to other For as S. Paule said to the Elders of Ephesus Take heed vnto your selues and to all the flocke charging them with care not of their flocke onely but of themselues too all of all and ech of other in like sort the Apostles who had charge of all in that they were shepheardes were to be looked too in that they were sheepe to be admonished taught fedde not euery one of Peter but euery one of other yea euen Peter also him selfe if néede required Hereof their practise is a proofe For wheÌ„ Peter went not with a right foote to the truth of the Gospell S. Paule reproued him openly before all men for it But to reproue him was to féede him Therefore S. Paule did feede S. Peter Hart. S. Paule reproued him not by authority but of curtesie and Peter yelded to it not of duetie but of modestie As now any Bishop may reproue the Pope and he will harken to it patiently and mildly and yet impaire not his supremacie Rainoldes I acknowledge a distinctioÌ„ of the Romain style which in the booke of Ceremonies of the church of Rome in the chapter that the Pope doth do reuereÌ„ce to no man saith that notwithstanding the maiestie and solemnitie which he vseth to highest states in entertaining of them yet Popes are accustomed wheÌ„ they are not in their poÌ„tificals to bow their head a litle as it were rendring reuerence to Cardinalles and to mightie Princes when they come priuatly and doo reuerence vnto him Marry this not of duetie but of laudable curtesie The Pope shewed not you this curtesie M. Hart when he admitted you to kisse his holinesse foote it was not for his state to doo it Yet hath he so bewitched your senses therewith that you to render him not duetie but curtesie forget both curtesie and duetie to Paule the Apostle the chosen instrument of God and penneman of his holy spirite For S. Paule mentioneth his reproofe purposely to proue that he was Peters equall in authoritie against the false Apostles who sought to discredite the doctrine which he taught by debaâ—ing him and setting others farre aboue him You say that he reproued Peter of curtesie and not by authoritie Wherby marke it well you say in effect that he made a foolish reason to proue a false conclusion And if he were inferiour to Peter in authority as he was by your answeare what meant he to say that he accounted himselfe nothing inferiour to the very chiefe Apostles You adde that any Bishoppe may so reproue the Pope Your Thomas saith no. For he writeth that this fact of Paule reprouing Peter exceedeth the measure of brotherly correction which subiectes owe vnto their prelates because he did it before the multitude Though otherwise him selfe to vphold the Papacy vseth such shiftes as you do maketh his account of Paule as the subiect and Peter as the prelate according to the Canon lawe But his owne sentence may serue for an axe to behead your common errour For either S. Paule in so reprouing Peter did transgresse his duetie or he was his equall in authoritie not his subiect But to say the former is a blasphemous spéech of Porphyrie The latter therefore is true And so your answere falleth of authoritie and curtesie Hart. I graunt that S. Paule was equall in
the youthes in his Pasquines nor poore men haue cause to stand in doute of him though he threaten being armed with a leauer and a dish-clout that a wil quel all who stand in his way crush theÌ„ in peeces And if the Parasites of the Pope think that to be lightning which he hath â—â—asht to burn England sure it is such lightning as was after the Poet the lightning of Salmoneus who shaking oft a torch did counterfeit the thundring soundes and lightning flames of heauen But such kindes of lightning although they daunt the wauering Gréekes and towne of Elis whose king is Salmoneus yet they daunt not the vnuincible Christians and citie of the liuing God whose king is the Lord. And let him who flasht it take héed if he bee wise least his foolish lightning as they say it happened to the lightner Salmoneus be reuenged with true lightning of almightie God to the vtter ruine of him selfe his towne and citizens For the Church which is lead by the holy Ghost into all truth hath béene alreadie taught by him out of the scriptures and shall be taught farther through the grace of God what difference there is betweene the lightning of Bristow and the light of Iesus Christ the lightning of Bristow the heate whereof doth hurt the bodies which it striketh the light of Iesus Christ the beames whereof delite the men to whom it shineth the lightning euill and pestilent which blindeth them who sée and killeth them who liue the light good and healthfull which giueth sight vnto the blinde and life vnto the dead Neither are wee without many godly men of excellent autoritie learning and iudgement euen amongst them whom this Tertullus nameth reprochefâ—lly great Maiâ—ters who could haue shewed this long ago â—â—wbeit they haue stayed hetherto from dooing it either because they thought his folies were refuted before they were writen for that after the maner of the Popish writers he bringeth no new matter but scowreth vp old rustie stuffe as one of them did note long since or because they purposed first to encounter with such as had writen before and more pithily entending to deale after with the rest in due time as an other signified of late that he meant or because the controuersies being sufficiently traueled in by many they thought that they might well cease from this labour though the Papistes ceased not from their impudencie as Ieremie hauing answered Hananiah once gaue him no answere wheÌ„ he repeated his error or because perhaps some had no leasure from their weightier charge of feeding the Church some listed not to striue with such a railing person some while they thinke that others haue taken it in hand do let it alone al either remember the counsell of the wise man that thou must not alwayes answere a foole least thou become like him or if it were requisite to answere him now least he seeme wise in his owne conceit they straine curtesie who should doo it For my part least the Philistines should vaunt any longer as if their were no man amongst the Israelites that durst fight with Goliath or the Israelites be gréeued with hearing the host of the liuing God to be so defyed of an vncircumcised Philistin I purposed through gods grace though perhaps Goliath would haue disdained me as a childe yet I purposed to set vpon him in the name of the Lord of hostes the God of the host of Israel But when I had prepared my selfe to the battaile and chosen smooth stones out of the brooke of Gods worde which are mightie through God to cast downe holdes euery high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God I heard that the matter was dispatched alreadie by a stoute and faithful souldiour of Christ by whom many Philistines had before beene conquered Whose worke as I vnderstood since is at the presse too and shall be shortly published Wherefore laying now aside my former purpose I thought on that demaund and promise of Bristow touching the scripture and the Church wherein he doth challenge and offer vs the combat For whereas a countrie man of ours vnder the title of an vnlearned Christian concealing his own name had set foorth a booke touching the autoritie of Gods word 〈◊〉 Church Bristow willeth him to set out his booke and put his name to it with approbation of our Rabbines and with priuilege and promiseth that he shal quickly see it answered This booke haue I sought for but could not fall vpon it all the copies of it as I ghesse being sold. Neither knew I how to speake with the autor who had coÌ„cealed his name I dout not but for good cause But to satisfie if not wholy yet as farre as I might the chaleÌ„ge of Bristow I haue set out this litle treatise of the same point with the autours name thereto approbation not of Rabbines whom we leaue to that Synagogue whose rulers loue to be called Rabbi Rabbi Maisters Doctours but of graue and learned men whom it concerneth Which thing I hope will like him so much the better because it compriseth not onely that question touching the scripture and the Church that he desireth to be set out but certaine other also of the same kinde chiefly touching the Church whereof he hath onely the bare name to boast of And I looke for an answere so much the sooner because there are now fower yeares past since he promised a Latin booke to which whether it be come abroad already or to come shortly he may ioine if it please him an answere to these Conclusions Wherein if he thinke it méete for him to deale there are thrée things both easy to be doon and reasonable in my iudgement which I will request him One is that he will set downe the text of my Conclusions wholy with his answere as I had determined to doo with his Demaundes that the readers may sée what he confuteth and how An other that he will not kicke against the prickes that he will yéelde to the truth and not go about to darken the cléere light of the sunne of righteousnes with cauils and sclanders The thirde that if he be ashamed to say the truth preuails against me yet in reprouing such things as he assayeth to reproue he will deale more soundly and sincerely then D. Stapleton hath doon in his Doctrinall Principles of faith a worke more full of wordes then truth For to confute our doctrine that the Church is the company of Gods elect and chosen which we teach of the Catholike Church and it is true he teacheth that euill men are mingled in the Church with good the reprobate with the elect which thing is also true in the militant Church But true thinges agrée with true thinges neâ—â—her doth one truth ouerthrow an other We hold that the Catholike Church which is commended to vs in the Creede is the whole company of
you complaine I know you may haue more bookes if you would haue such as are best for you to read But you would haue such as might nourish your humor from reading of the which they who restraine you are your friendes If a man do surfet of varietie of dishes the Phisicion doth well to dyet him with one wholsome kinde of meat Perhaps it were better for some of vs who read all sortes that we were tyed to that alone suffred part of your restraint We are troubled about many things but one thing is needfull Many please the fansie better but one doth profit more the minde He was a wise preacher who said The reading of many bookes is a wearinesse vnto the flesh and therefore exhorted men to take instruction by the wordes of trueth the wordes of the wise which are giuen by one pastor euen by Iesus Christ whose spirit did speake in the Prophets and Apostles and taught his Church the trueth by them Howbeit for as much as God hath giuen giftes to men pastours and teachers whose labour might helpe vs to vnderstand the words of that one pastor we do receaue thankfully the monuments of their labour left in wryting to the Church which they were set to builde eyther seuerall as the Doctors or assembled as the Councels we do gladly read them as Pastors of the Church Yet so that we put a difference betwene them and that one Pastor For God did giue him the spirite not by measure the rest had a measure of grace and knowledge through him Wherfore if to supply your whatsoeuer wants you would haue the bookes of Doctors and Councels to vse them as helps for the better vnderstanding of the booke of Christ your wants shal be supplyed you shall not need to feare disaduantage in this respect For M. Secretarie hath taken order that you shall haue what bookes you will vnlesse you will such as cannot be gotten Hart. The bookes that I would haue are principally in déed the Fathers and the Councels which all do make for vs as do the scriptures also But for my direction to finde out their places in all poyntes of controuersie which I can neither remember redily nor dare to trust my selfe in them I would haue our writers which in the seuerall poyntes whereof they treate haue cited them and buyld themselues vpon them In the question of the Church and the supremacie Doctor Stapleton of the Sacraments and sacrifice of the Masse Doctor Allen of the worshipping of Sayntes and Images Doctor Harpsfield whose bookes were set forth by Alan Cope beare his name as certaine letters in them shew Likewise for the rest of the pointes that lie in controuersie them who in particular haue best written of them for them al in generall S. Thomas of Aquine Father Roberts Dictates and chiefly the confession that Torrensis an other father of the societie of Iesus hath gathered out of S. Augustine which booke we set the more by because of al the Fathers S. Augustine is the chéefest as well in our as your iudgement and his doctrine is the common doctrine of the Fathers whose consent is the rule whereby controuersies should be ended Rainoldes These you shall haue God willing and if you will Canisius too because he is so full of textes of Scriptures and Fathers and many doe estéeme him highly But this I must request you to looke on the originalles of Scriptures Councels Fathers which they doe alleadge For they doe perswade you that all doe make for you but they abuse you in it They borrow some gold out of the Lordes treasure house and wine out of the Doctors presses but they are deceitful workmen they do corrupt their golde with drosse their wine with worse then water Hart. You shall finde it harder to conuince them of it then to charge them with it Rainoldes And you shall finde it harder to make proofe of halfe then to make claime of all Yet you shall see both youre claime of all the Scriptures and Fathers to bee more confidente then iust and my reproofe of your wryters for theyr corrupting and forging of them as plainly prooued as vttered if you haue eyes to see God lighten your eyes that you may see open your eares that you may heare and geue you both a softe hart and vnderstanding minde that you may be able wisely to discerne and gladly to embrace the trueth when you shall heare it Hart. I trust I shall be able alwayes both to see and to followe the trueth But I am perswaded you will be neuer able to shew that that is the trueth which your Church professeth As by our conference I hope it shal be manifest Rainoldes UUill you then to lay the ground of our conference let me know the causes why you separate your selfe and refuse to communicate with the Church of England in prayers and religion Hart. The causes are not many They may be al comprysed in one Your Church is no Church You are not members of the Church Rainoldes How proue you that Hart. By this argument The Church is a companie of Christian men professing one faith vnder one head You professe not one faith vnder one head Therefore you are not of the Church Rainoldes What is that one faith Hart. The catholike faith Rainoldes Who is that one head Hart. The Bishop of Rome Rainoldes Then both the propositions of which you frame your argument are in part faultie The first in that you say the church is a companie of Christian men vnder one head The second in that you charge vs of the church of England that wee professe not one faith For we do professe that one faith the catholike faith But we deny that the church is bound to be subiect to that one head the bishop of Rome Hart. I will proue the pointes of both my propositions the which you haue denied First that the church must be subiect to the Bishop of Rome as to her head Next that the faith which you professe in England is not the catholike faith Rainoldes You will say somewhat for them but you will neuer proue them Hart. Let the church iudge For the first thus I proue it S. Peter was head of all the Apostles The Bishop of Rome succeedeth Peter in the same power ouer Bishops that he had ouer the Apostles Therefore the Bishop of Rome is head of all Bishops If of Bishops then by consequent of the dioceses subiect to them If of all their dioceses then of the whole church The Bishop of Rome therefore is head of the whole church of Christ. Rainoldes S. Peter was head of all the Apostles The Bishop of Rome is head of all Bishops I had thought that Christ our Sauiour both was and is the head as of the whole church so of Apostles of Bishops of all the members of it For the church is his
expounde the Latin according to the Hebrue but to alaye the Hebrue according to the Latine Wherefore in that I saide that if we should goe from your authenticall Latin to the originall textes it would be misliked of I doo you no iniurie Yet I mislike it not in your plea for Peter that you take aduantage not of the originall but of a translation nay I like it well Though I like not that which you adde to proue it that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greeke toong dooth signifie a rocke as Cephas in the Syriake and so the wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 haue one meaning For they haue one meaning not because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie a rocke as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie a stone as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signifieth a stone your owne learned linguists as you call them note and examples thereof are rife But that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any where signifieth a rocke neither doo they shew nor haue other skilfuâ—l of that toong obserued You say that it is so in the Athenian language but you bring no Athenian nor any Grecian else to witnesse it And the French toong which foloweth the Gréeke as in many other words so in this hath the same word you know for a stone and for the name of Peter Wherein there is a print of the true originall meaning of that name in the Gréeke toong But Christ did call him Cephas in the Syriake toong and Cephas you say doth signifie a rocke as Fabricius sheweth But Fabricius sheweth further that Cephas doth signifie a stone also And though he or rather the Iewe whom he citeth reporteth their saying who expounde the name as taken from that worde in signification of a rocke yet hauing mentioned the other of a stone he saith therevpon that so his name is Peter in the Romane toong and in the Italian a stone is called pereda Whereunto I might adde that an other learned writer of the Iewes and auncienter then he doeth likewise say as opening the sense of Peters name that he is called stone But that Christ did meane a stone not a rocke in naming him Cephas your stoutest champion D. Sanders may serue in stéed of many witnesses For he wanting no will to go as far as the boldest and hauing many yeares aduised of the matter durst say no more for Cephas but that it signifieth a stone at the most a great stone euen petra it selfe he doeth expound in this maner Super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thou shalt bee the first stone next me of that church which I will build on earth In the which iudgement he doeth deserue the greater credite at your handes because he was contented to hazard his life with the Pope against his Prince in that holy quarell and hauing spent his chiefest studie in the point he had before times expounded it a rocke the which exposition so fit for the Papacy he would haue neuer left had not the truth enforced him to retire from it A thing so much the likelier because when hee laboured first to infect men with the Popes supremacie by the name of rocke and therfore both in the title and course of all his booke did sound the rocke of the church euen then he did expound Cephas and Peter doubtfully a rocke or a stone and yelding the reason why Christ did name him so he mentioned a stone onely because what place a stone hath in holding vp the house which is built vpon it the same should Peter haue in vpholding the frame of Christes militant church Wherefore you must let go your holde of the rocke whereon D. Stapleton doth beast your house is built and be content to lay a stone in stéed of it Let our Sauiour Christ alone be the rocke If you dash your selfe against him therein he will breake you in péeces Hart. It is a disputable point You sée that learned men are of sundrie iudgements in expounding of it some thinking it betokeneth a stone some a rocke Wherefore you can not force me to take the one and leaue the other Rainoldes Not by mens wordes but by the word of God I can For Christ in the Syriake toong did name him Cephas and Cephas in the Gréeke is expounded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in English signifieth a stone And sure you had done better if as the Gréeke text hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Syriake translation Cephas Cephas so you had made it in English stone and stone For Peter and peter doth not expresse the force of the Syriake word Rocke and rocke is strong but the text doth not beare it Stone and stone is fit had you not thought it too slender Now sith you doo presse the Syriake translation to shew thereby the meaning of the Latin as you say you must giue me leaue to tell you that the wordes should be rather Englished after the Syriake thus Thou art stone and vpon this stone will I build my church Hart. Rocke or stone if I should giue you leaue to choose whither of them you list what gaine you thereby Rainoldes The truth which I deale for shall gaine thus much by it that although you construe those words that Christ would build his church vpon Peter for your most aduantage euen as Sanders doth yet is it not proued thereby that Christ did promise him a supreme-headship ouer the Aposâ—les For the church of Christ which is the company of Gods elect and chosen isresembled in Scripture to a materiall temple such as was the temple which Salomon built So as that was called a house the house of prayer in like sort the church is called a house too but a spirituall house to distinguish it from that which house because it must be made of all the godly as it were of stones grounded on Christ by faith though the doctrine of the Apostles therefore Christ is called the chiefe corner stone in respect of the Iewes and Gentiles as of walls which are ioyned in him the foundation in respect of the whole house yea the foundation of foundation as the Prophet termeth him the twelue Apostles laid next vpon Christ are called twelue foundations the faithfull laide on them or rather after them on him are called stones not dead ones such as the temple had but liuing the working and framing of them to this purpose is called building and edifying which is done by preaching of the word of truth coupling them togither betwéene them selues and with Christ that they may grow to bee a holie temple in the Lord for God to dwell in by his spirite Wherefore if the wordes of Christ be
not begotten or borne Hart. Hée séemeth to haue meant it And Torrensis who gathered S. Austins Confession out of all his workes alleageth these places to proue that Christians ought to belieue manie things which haue come to vs from the Apostles themselues deliuered as it were by hand although they bee not written expresly in scriptures Rainoldes The Iesuit Torrensis dooth great wrong herein to the truth of God to S. Austins credit and to you who reade him And yet with such a sophisme in the word expresly that if it should be laid vnto his charge he would wash his handes of it as Pilate did of Christes blood For he alleageth those places of S. Austin thereby to proue Traditions as though we had receiued that doctrine touching God by tradition vnwritten not by the written word S. Austin no such matter But dealing with an Arian who required the verie word consubstantiall to be shewed in scripture doth tell him that the thing it selfe is there founde though not that word perhaps Wherevpon he presseth him in like sort with the word vnbegotten which the Arian hauing giuen to God the Father and defending it S. Austin replieth that as he had termed the Father vnbegotten well although the word not written so might the Sonne also be termed consubstantiall sith the scripture proueth the thing meant therby And as with this Arian so with their bishop Maximinus Who hauing himself termed God the Father vnbegotten or vnborne denied the holie Ghost to be equall to the Sonne because it is not written that he is worshipped To the which cauill of his S. Austin answereth that although it be not written in flat termes yet is it gathered by necessarie consequence of that which is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God the holy Ghost is God therefore to bee worshipped Thus S. Austins meaning was of these pointes that the scripture teacheth them Whereby you may perceiue the fraude of Torrensis Who saying that they are not expresly written in the scriptures left him selfe this refuge that hee might say they are not in expresse wordes though for sense and substance they are in the scriptures And yet by referring that title to traditions induceth his reader to thinke that they are taught by tradition not by scripture A doctrine which Arians will clappe their handes at that the Sonne of God is not by scripture of one substance with the Father But let it be far from you M. Hart to thinke so prophanely of the word of God And if you rest so much on Doctors of your owne side rest here on Thomas of Aquine rather who saith that concerning God wee must say nothing but that which is founde in the holie scripture either in words or in sense Which as he confirfirmeth by Denys and Damascen so was it the common iudgement of the Fathers of S. Austin chiefly as his bookes touching the Trinitie doo shew And in the conclusion thereof for euident proofe of that which you denied he giueth the name of the rule of faith to that which is plainly set downe in scripture of the Trinitie Wherfore the scripture cōpriseth the rule of faith for that point And as for that point so for all the rest which in that very booke whereof we spake S. Austin noteth It remaineth therfore that S. Austin meant not by the authoritie of the church more then he signified by plainer places of the scriptures Hart. Yes his own words in that verie sentence doo yéeld sufficient proofe me thinkes that he did For if he signified by plainer places of the scriptures as much as he meant by the authoritie of the church then was it idle when he had named the one to adde the other to it chiefly in such sort as that is added by S. Austin For both the coniunction the places of scriptures and the authoritie of the church should import thinges different and I may say of wordes as the Philosopher saith of things That is done in vaine by more that may be done by fewer Rainoldes Nothing is done in vaine that is done to edifie The church might well be mentioned as an interpreter of the worde though it teach not any thing beside the word of God The people of Israel did beleeue the Lord and his seruaunt Moses yet Moses did nothing but that the Lorde commaunded him The wise man doth charge his sonne to hearken to the instruction of his father and forsake not the doctrine of his mother yet they both the father and mother teach one lesson the chiefest wisedome the feare of God The same is fulfilled in this Moses and the Lord or rather in this mother and our heauenly Father of whom it hath bene said well He cannot haue God to be his Father who hath not the church to be his mother For God hauing purposed to make vs his children and heires of life eternall as he prepared his word to be first the séede the immortall seed of which we are begotten a new afterward the milke the sincere milke whereby wee béeing borne grow so he ordeined the church by her ministerie to teach it as it were a mother first to conceaue and bring foorth the children afterward to nourish them as babes new borne with her milke Which appeareth as by others so chiefly by S. Paul who traueiled of them in childbirth whom he sought to conuert and when they were new borne he nourished them with milke to set before our eyes the duetie of the church and all the churches Ministers in bearing children vnto Christ. Now the milke which the church giueth to her children shée giueth it out of her brestes and her two brestes are the two testaments of the holie scriptures by S. Austins iudgement the old Testament and the new S. Austin therefore saying the rule of faith is receiued of the authoritie of the church meant not that the church should deliuer any thing but onely what shee draweth out of the holie scriptures Hart. Not for milke perhaps which babes are to sucke but for strong meate wherewith men are nourished For mothers féede not their children being growne with mylke out of theyr brestes Rainoldes But S. Austin addeth that the holy scriptures haue both milke for babes and strong meat for men milke in plainer thinges and easier to be vnderstood strong meate in harder and greater mysteries Yea where Christ said that euerye Scribe which is taught vnto the kingdome of heauen is lyke vnto an housholder who bringeth foorth out of his treasure thinges both newe and olde S. Austin iudgeth that hée meant by newe thinges and olde the olde and newe testament Wherefore sith euery pastor and teacher of the church is meant you graunt by this Scribe it foloweth by S. Austin that the meate which he is to fetch out of his storehouse for the
feathers They report that Plato defined a man so a man is a liuing creature two-footed vn-feathered For which definitioÌ„ when he was commended Diogenes tooke a Capon and hauing pluckt his feathers off did bring him in to the schoole of Plato saying This is Platoes man The holy word of God is the same in the Church that reason is in a man Whereupon we giue it for an essential marke as I may terme it of the Church by which the Church is surely known and discerned But the shew of Gods word is such in many heretikes as of reason in brute beastes that some who haue no skill to discerne that marke doo thinke it impossible to know the Church by it Your felowes hereupon describe the Church by outward and accidentall markes as namely by antiquity succession consent These are very plausible and many do commend them highly But he that hath halfe an eie of a Philosopher I meane a wise Christian néede not playe Diogenes in plucking feathers off to shew that these markes may agrée to a capon Now as they deale with the markes of the Church so doo you M. Hart with the markes of the truth Not Vincentius but you who couer your errors with the name of Vincentius and take thinges as necessary and sure proofes of truth which he did note as probable and likelye tokens of it onely For he deliuered them not as neuer failing but as holding often and such as albeit they doo hit sometimes yet do they misse sometimes also Whereof him selfe is witnesse in that he disproueth them the first vniuersality by the example of the Arians and flyeth from it to antiquitie the second antiquitie by the example of the Donatistes and flyeth from it to consent Hart. But the third consent he speaketh of as neuer failing as a necessarie token to know and trie the truth by as an essentiall marke and proper to the pointes of Catholike faith and truth And this is the marke which chiefly I regarded when I alleaged Vincentius that our questions might be tried by the consent of the Fathers Rainoldes In déede he preferreth this marke before the rest as hauing held when they fayled Neuerthelesse he speaketh not so of it neither as that it may serue for tryall and decision of questions betwéene vs. For what doth he acknowledge to bee a point approued such as we are bound to beléeue by this marke Euen that which the Fathers all with one consent haue held written taught plainely commonly continually And who can auouch of any point in question that not one or two but all the Fathers held it nor onely held it but also wrote it nor onely wrote it but also taught it not darkely but plainely not seldome but commonly not for a short season but continually Which so great consent is partly so rare and hard to be found partly so vnsure though it might be found that him selfe to fashion it to some vse and certainetie is faine to limit and restraine it First for the matters that we are to seeke and follow their consent not in all litle questioÌ„s of the scripture but in the weighty pointes of faith Then for the persons that we must folow all or the greater part because in many pointes all of them consent not Finally which cometh néerest to our purpose he graunteth that there may such heresies arise as must be dealt withall by the scripture onely and not by the Fathers for purposing to shew both in what maner and what kind of heresies may be found out and condemned by the consenting sentences of the Fathers he saith and confirmeth that neither all heresies must be assaulted in this sort nor alwaies but only such as are new and greene to weete when first they spring vp before they haue falsisied the rules of auncient faith the very straitenes of time not suffering them to do it and before the poyson spreading abroad farther they endeuour to corrupt the writings of the Fathers But heresies that are spread abroad and waxed old must not be set vpon in this sort because they by long continuance of time haue had long occasion to steale away the truth And therefore whatsoeuer profanities there be either of schismes or heresies that are waxed auncient we must in no case deale otherwise with them then either to conuince them if it bee nedeful by the authoritie of scriptures onely or at the least auoid them being of old time conuicted and condemned alreadie by the generall councels of Catholike Bishops Lo when heresies are growne to be in yeares auncient and ample in places when they haue got antiquitie and vniuersality then must we fight against them not by consent of Fathers but by the authoritie of the scriptures only This is the sentence of Vincentius Lirinensis in that passing fine booke against the profane innouations of all heresies Is it not a golden senteÌ„ce Hart. The cause why Vincentius affirmeth that heresies when they are spread far and haue long continued are to be confuted by the scriptures onely not by consent of Fathers is that which he dooth point too of endeuouring to corrupt the writings of the Fathers a common practise of heresies if occasion and time serue them But there is no colour why therefore you should refuse to deale with vs by the consent of Fathers For neither are the doctrines which we professe heresies much lesse olde and ample heresies such as he speaketh of nor haue wée endeuoured to corrupt the writings of the Fathers nay wée haue kept them and endeuour daily to set them foorth most perfitly But your heresies in déede although they sprang of late and may be counted new and greene yet haue they endeuoured to corrupt the Fathers since and haue done it The practise of Erasmus is famous therein Of whom to say nothing what censures haue béen giuen by other worthy men whoÌ„ Torrensis nameth Marian Victorius in CoÌ„mentaries that he set foorth vpon the former thrée tomes of S. Ierome reproueth most learnedly more then sixe hundred errours thrust into them by Erasmus either in expounding or ill correcting them And Torrensis in his preface to the Confession of S. Austin declareth sundry bookes to be S. Austins owne which Erasmus had noted as falsly fathered on him Wherefore if by Vincentius you minde to touch them who endeuour to corrupt the writings of the Fathers cast out the beame out of your owne eie before you séeke a mâ—atâ— in ours Rainoldes Yet you sée by the way though you make hast away from it what rotten postes they be whereon as principall pillars your church and faith is built vniuersalitie antiquitie consent Of which it is shewed by Vincentius himselfe that heresies may iustly claime the two former vniuersalitie and antiquitie and make a faire chalenge to the third consent in processe of time so cunningly can they file the Fathers to their
by experience haue felt that some are coosiners which beare the face of honest men must bée borne with if they suspect a man sometimes whom they néede not chiefly sith it proueth a greater point of wisedome to mistrust an honest man then to trust a knaue For to trust a knaue hath vndone many and brought them past recouery To mistrust an honest man though it be a fault yet is it lesse daungerous and may be sooner mended But what shall we thinke of your Torrensis policie Who vnder this pretense that Erasmus iudged some bookes not to be S. Austins which are he citeth such as S. Austins which are knowne and graunted to be none of his Hart. He dooth not so simply but with an exception that if all of them be not S. Austins owne as we graunt they be not yet the most are theirs who liued the same time and all no doubt were written by learned and godly men Rainoldes But out of this exception he doth except againe that although they do not auaile much to conuince the opinions of sectaries neuerthelesse there will be godly men and learned who will permit and iudge them to be S. Austins owne and wil both take delight and profit by reading them Yet amongst these bookes for which he striueth so to haue them thought S. Austins there be that teach contrary to S. Austins doctrine As namely the booke of visiting the sicke wherein the bastard Austin alloweth the worship of Images as good which the true Austin doth note as an abuse and saith the Church misliketh it But Torrensis could not espie this sentence of the true Austin the other of the bastard as it is iudged by not Erasmus onely but your Diuines of Louan too he setteth for a flower in his Austins confession So that if wee compare the dealing of the Iesuit Torrensis with Erasmus in taking or refusing the bookes of S. Austin Erasmus as a plaine and well meaning man that were to receiue a summe of of mony in angels finding many bad ones some light some crackt some sowdered some counterfeited amoÌ„gst theÌ„ doth vpoÌ„ suspicion distrust a fewe good and is loth to take them for feare of deceiuing any whom he should pay them too The Iesuit as a yoonker who could gaine by them if he might put them all away doth mingle them one with an other and prayeth men to take them protesting that if they be not all English angels yet they be Flemish at least they are stampt with the image of an angell And although some curious and precise men are loth to take them in part of lawfull payment yet there be good felowes that will permit and iudge them to be English angels and will playe them at dice for their delight and profite too I for my part haue a better liking of Erasmus herein Specially for that hee sheweth in his censures the reasons that moued him to thinke as he doth of the bookes which he refuseth so that the church may thereby iudge of his iudgement If you rather fansie the Iesuit Torrensis vse your own discretion But I would aduise others to beware howe they trust you who doo so lightly trust him Hart. You excuse Erasmus as though the suspicion which his censures raise of some things in S. Austins works procéeded from a carefulnes that he might neither be deceiued nor deceiue Which if it had béene so his fault were the lesser But Torrensis sheweth that whereas there are two treatises of his touching the common life and maners of Clergie men in which the spring and orders of the life of monkes are faithfully declared Erasmus of malice as it may seeme for hatred that he bare to monks remoued them both out of their own place and put them guilefully amongst the sermons intitled to the Eremite Friers giuing a note of infamie as to most of these so to them withall though him self deny not but they were made by S. Austin This is more then distrusting a good angell for the badde This is wilful refusing of an angell as bad the which he knoweth to be good Rainoldes If Erasmus did this not of error but of malice for hatred which he bare to monkes as Torrensis suspecteth that he did it were a great crime and worthy to be published in print vnto the world But if hee did it not of hatred malice if he did it not at all if he did the contrarie if he reproued the partie by whom it was done and him selfe redressed it how will Torrensis make amends to Erasmus whom he hath defamed with so lewd a slaunder The sermons entitled to the Eremit Friers were impudently forged vnder S. Austins name by some who was him selfe of that order belike and gladly would haue gotten credit to his order by the title of such a patrone Erasmus hath marked the most of these sermons with a note of infamie Wherein if he committed any offense it was that he markt no more of them so not that he markt the most For your Louan-Cenâ—ors doo set them out all with as good a note affirming not onely that they are forged and knowne certainely to be written vnder S. Austins name by some pety-latinist a rhetorical moongrell demy-French demy-Flemish as Lipsius doth gather by certaine wordes and phrases but also that they were reproued and condemned by an officer of the Popes aboue eight score yeares since and written both largely and learnedly against by Malburne of Brussels This Flemish-French-man then as he endeuoured to write his sermons Austin-like that men might thinke them to be S. Austins owne so he interlarded them with two treatises which were in déed Austins but vttered to the people of his own Church and not to Eremite Friers Erasmus when he set forth S. Austins workes first espied the fraud and opened it neither did he onely remoue them both thence but also left this Censure there to kéepe them out they are amongst the epistles and were put foolishly in amongst the sermoÌ„s to the Eremite Friers Now be iudge your selfe what the Iesuit deserueth who chargeth Erasmus to haue done that of malice and hatred which he not onely did not but also prouided as much as lay in him that no man else should doo it Hart. Perhaps Erasmus did it if not in his first edition of Austin yet in other afterward For doubtlesse in some of the Basill-editions which haue the censures of Erasmus those treatises are printed as Torrensis noteth them euen amongst the sermons to the Eremite Friers And if Erasmus caused them so to be printed as he did of likelihood it is no mortall sinne to think that he did it not of error but of malice hatred against monks For it is well knowne that he could not abide them and sundry of his censures are stained with that affection Rainoldes
he agreeth not precisely word for worde with the Cambron-copie Now the Cambron-copie what is it or whence came it that Cyprian should be made the father of such slippes vpon the credit of it alone What if some did note them in the margent of fansie as students vse to doo What if some receiued them into the text of errour What if some of zeale vnto the church of Rome did adde them And why did not Pamelius leaue out the other words of the equalitie of the Apostles in honor and power because the Cambron copie wanteth them as well as adde these of Peters primacie and chaire because the Cambron-copie hath them Did not his conscience tell him that the copie was vnsound or at the least insufficient to force the change of a place of so great importance against the credite of so many both writen bookes and printed If other Licentiates as learned as Pamelius shall vpon one copie as good as the Cambron presume in all the Fathers as he hath in CypriaÌ„ to adde the like gloses for the rest of your opinions as these are for the chaire and primacie of Peter it will be hie time for vs to take héede how wee permitte the tryall of controuersies in religion to the consent of the Fathers Wherfore although these matters seeme neuer so small yet there may lie as much on them as concerneth the safety of our soules Neither doo I picke them as quarrels for pretense but I alleage them as reasons for proofe that by the position of your owne author we must deale with you not by their consent but by the scripture onely For he on whom you grouÌ„ded Vincentius Lirinensis alloweth onely scripture to conuince those errors which haue encreased long wide because the length of time hath geuen them occasion to steale away the trueth and the poyson spreading farther they endeuour to corrupt the writings of the Fathers Your error of the Papacie hath spread farre and growen long you haue endeuoured to corrupt the writinges of the Fathers the forgeries are plaine in Cyprian in Cyrill and in the Councell of Chalcedon the presumptions are great that you haue beene as bold with other as with these For if Thomas of Aquine made no conscience of it what may be thought of such as were more ambitious And if Manutius dealt so with Cyprian in whom hee sought most credit what did his ten yeares labors in setting foorth the rest And if Papistes durste this in the light of printing what may we feare they did in the darcknesse of writing bookes And if the Roman print be folowed at Anwerp the Anwerp at Paris the Paris other-where perhaps and the newer the worser and the worst accounted best by such as D. Stapleton and testimonies alleaged thence as authenticall how much likelyer is it that when they wrote copies in Monasteries and Abbeys they folowed one another with lesser shame and greater loosenes and so did proceede from good to euill from euill to worse and authors of that age did most approue those copies which made for their aduauntage most and brought authorities out of them To conclude therefore euen by his iudgement to whom you appealed Vincentius Lirinensis in that golden booke against the profane innouations of all heresies the touchstone by the which our controuersie must be tryed is the word of God and not the word of men not the consent of Fathers but the holy scripture and the scripture only And this I may protest I speake not of feare as though the Fathers all held with you against vs but of conscience that I may yeelde due glory to God due reuerence to his word For let such forgeries as I haue spoken of be set apart and what haue all the Fathers nay what hath any of them to prooue the pretended supremacie of Peter Hart. The very same Fathers whose wordes I alleaged before and them acknowledged to be their owne not counterfeits geue Peter the supremacie which you call pretended For S. Ierom saith of him Peter was of so great authoritie that Paul wrote Then after three yeares and so forth and S. Austin affirmeth that the primacie of the Apostles is conspicuous and preeminent with excellent grace in Peter and Chrysostome calleth him the mouth of the Apostles the chiefe and toppe of the company and he is named by Theodoret the prince of the Apostles the prince which title also is geuen him by all antiquitie Wherto I may adde that Epiphanius termeth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as you would say the highest of the Apostles and S. Austin yet farther their head their President the first of them which preeminence he prooueth also out of S. Cyprian who saith that the Lord did choose Peter first S. Ierom teacheth that Peter was chosen one among the twelue to the inteÌ„t that a head being appointed occasion of scisme might bee taken away The bookes of the Fathers are full of such sayings but they are all to this effect And therfore these fewe may serue to shew their iudgement Rainoldes These sayings and the like which are alleaged out of the Fathers doo touch three prerogatiues which they giue to Peter the first of authoritie the second of primacie the third of principalitie But none of them all doth proue the supremacy which you pretend to Peter and meane to the Pope For by thaâ— supremacie is signified the sâ—lnes of ecclesiasticall or rather Papall power euen a power soueraine of gouerning the Church throughout the whole world in all points matters of doctrine and discipline as you declared Is it not Hart. It is so What then Rainoldes But none of the sayings alleaged out of the Fathers doe geue this soueraine power to Peter Therfore they proue not his pretended supremacie Hart. They geue it him all Rainoldes I wil shew the contrary And to speake in order of the three prerogatiues which by them are geuen him the first out of Ierom that Peter was of great authoritie is nothing to your purpose For it is apparaunt that sith the supremacie dooth note a soueraine power the question is of power and not of authoritie Hart. As who say that power and authoritie did differ so much one from the other Rainoldes Much. For power importeth a right of rule and gouernment which the superiors haue ouer their inferiors for the good ordering of mankind as Princes ouer subiectes Pastors ouer flocks Masters ouer seruants Husbands ouer wiues By authoritie is meant estimation and credite a good opinion of men for that which wée account worthy to bée estéemed For they of whom we think so well in respect of their vertue or wisdome or state or other qualities that we will folow them as authors in our dooings our iudgements factes or words are said to be of credite and authoritie with vs. And this an inferior may haue with his superior As
epistle is auncient translated out of Greeke into Latin by Rufinus who liued within foure hundred yeares after Christ. And this touching Linus the storie of whose succession you thinke disproâ—eth it was thought vpon then is answered by Rufinus For 〈◊〉 his preface to the booke entitled the recognitions of Clemens which he translated too some demaund saith he how when as Linus and Cletus were Bishops of Rome before Clemens himselfe in his epistle to Iames saith that the chaire of teaching was committed to him by Peter Whereof this is the reason as we haue heard that Linus and Cletus were in deed Bishops in Rome before Clemens but while Peter liued that they might haue the care of the Bishoply charge he might do the duety of the Apostleship As it is found that also he did at Caesarea where though being present himselfe yet he had a Bishop whom he had ordained namely Zachaeus And thus may eche of these things be thought to be true both that they were reckened Bishops before Clemens and Clemens neuertheles receiued the chaire of teaching after the death of Peter Rainoldes The auncientie of the epistle is no warrant for it but that it might be false and forged The epistles of Seneca to Paul of Paul to Seneca are no lesse auncient which yet haue nothing worthie of either Paul or Seneca There haue béene verie many misbegotten pamphlets wandring abroad euen from the time of the Apostles yea vnder the names of the Apostles themselues The lesse haue you to maruell if there were some miscreant who wrote in the name of Clemens to Iames. As for Rufinus who translated it if yet he did translate it and some haue not abused him as well as Clemens his iudgement was not such but he might be deceiued in a greater matter Which if you beléeue not on S. Ieroms credit because he was his aduersarie looke into these same workes that he translated and you shall perceiue it For the thinges writen in the Recognitions of Clemens which you mention sent to Iames also are the most of them vncertaine many fabulous yea and some hereticall as your selues confesse Yet Rufinus iudged it a hidden treasure of wisedome thought he had a bootie of it Againe in that epistle wherein Clemens maketh him selfe Peters successor he certifieth Iames that he sent him before by the commandement of Peter an other booke entitled the booke of Clemens touching thinges which Peter did in his iourney Now this iourney-booke hath béene so long so famously knowne for a roague that he hath not onely béene burnt through the â—are of olde by sundrie Fathers and Bishops in a Councell but also of late the college of Inquisitors at Rome haue enrolled him in the Register of bookes condemned by the Church Wherefore he was a counterfeit that set abroad these bastardes in the name of Clemens howsoeuer Rufinus thought them of simplicitie to be his owne whose they were named And with this perswasion was he moued to thinke on some probabilitie how that might be true which séemed false therein of Peters ordeining Clemens to be his successor when Linus and Cletus were Bishops before him The only shew whereof being a report receyued by tradition he was faine to take it for lacke of a better But he erred in it either not knowing or not considering times and stories For by his answere Linus and Cletus should be no longer Bishops then while Peter liued and when he dyed Clemens should succéede him next immediatly Whereas it is apparant by records of times that Linus continued Bishop eleuen yeares after Peters death and Cletus twelue after Linus before that Clemens had the roome Which albeit Turrian the Iesuite doâ— gnaw vpon as he is wont to make it away yet is the matter so manifest certaine that Genebrard the freshest of your Popish Chroniclers and passing all the rest as in skill so in zeale for the Popes causes could not but set it downe as true Hart. Yet he saith withall that Peter did nominate Clemens to succeede him But Clemens gaue the roome first to Linus and then to Cletus not so much of modestie as by the counsell of the Lord least the example of this nomination should passe to the posteritie and derogate from the free prouidence of the Church in choosing of her owne Bishop Rainoldes He saith so in deede But who séeth not that this was deuised to make stories agrée with the tale of Clemens and by the way to countenance the election of Popes which now the Cardinals vse For the booke of Ceremonies of the Church of Rome treating of that election affirmeth that Peter nominated Clemens to be his successour with this coÌ„dition it is thought if the Cardinals would admit him But they perceiuing that the forme of this nomination might greatly hurt the Church in processe of time did not accept of Clemens but did choose Linus and made him Pope after Peter Howbeit Clemens afterwarde was chosen by the Cardinals when Linus and Cletus were deceased Though Genebrard in â—â—â—ming the fansie to his purpose doth not so much follow the booke of the Ceremonies as the glose of the Canon law which with better care of the Popes credit saith that Pope Clemens him selfe renounced the Papacie considering that it would be an euill and pernicious thing for the example that any should choose his owne successour Into such follies do you 〈◊〉 your selues to say that the blessed Apostle of Christ S. Peter did ordeine that which was pernicious for the example refused by the Pope mislyked by the Cardinals preiudiciall to the Church and all to maintaine the epistle of Clemens with the tale in it that Peter made him his successour A thing so absurd that where it is mentioned in the Canon law there is it nâ—â—ed to â—e chaffe and Contius a learned lawier of your owne doth note vpon that note that it is counted chaffe worthily for it is all counterfeite and Comestor the autor of the scholastical historie who liued when the darkenes of Poperie was grossest refuteth and reiecteth it as a méere forgerie But whatsoeuer it â—e and hoâ— so euer auncient 〈◊〉 the same it may be which S. Ierom saith did beare the name of Clemens and was reproued by olde writers but be it what you wil you confesse your selfe that to be vntrue for proofe wherof you cited it that Clemens succeeded Peter and not Linus Wherefore séeing Linus did succéede Peter that while Peter liued in the same sort as Zachaeus did you say at Caesarea Euodius at Antioche the Bishops of Antioche of Caesarea may claime as well the Papacy by Peters succession as may the Bishop of Rome Hart. Yet by your owne graunt and the consent of histories Linus who succéeded him in Rome did out-liue him And therefore he was
of Constantine as you would haue vs to imagin Their meaning was onely to shew that the Canons which are called the Canons of the sixth Councell were made by other Bishops in the time of Iustinian long after that Councell and therefore are falsly fathered vpon that Hart. But is not Honorius condemned by those Canons whosoeuer made them Rainoldes He is not as much as named in any of them saue onely in the first where they who named him haue named him so that both they haue seuered them selues from the sixth Councell by which he was condemned and haue encreased the credit of it For they recken him amongst the heads of the Monotheliâ—es and say of them all that the sixth Councell did condemne them iustly Hart. That Canon sauoureth of corruption which speaketh so of Pope Honorius Rainoldes So. What say you then to the sixth generall Councell it seâ—fe They doo speake of him a great deale more bittâ—rly reprouing his doctâ—ine as the doctrine of heretikes false wicked pestilent Nor thinking it enough to condemne his doctrine they curse his name and person also Hart. I say that the copies of the sixth general councel are corrupted Rainoldes The sixth generall Councell hath handled the cause of the Monothelite heretikes in eightene actions as they are termed In the first action the eight and the eleuenth the heretikes alleage in their owne defense that Pope Honorius taught as they doo In the twelfth and thirtenth his writinges are examined his heresie discouered himselfe condemned and cursed In the sixtenth seuententh and eightenth the sentence which was giuen against him and the curse are repeated often againe and againe with acclamation of the Councel Thinke you that the copies of the actions of the Councell are corrupted in all those places Hart. In all in which Honorius is condemned or cursed Rainoldes What and that those places are corrupted in all copies and that without difference all after one sort al with the same wordes Hart. All why not is that impossible Rainoldes Not impossible yet improbable But the seuenth generall Councell which you esâ—éeme so greatly for their defense of image-worship this seuenth doth make no better account of Honorius Hart. The seuenth generall Councell is corrupted too Rainoldes But in the eight general Councel there is rehersed a spéech of Adrian the Pope which he had vttered in a councell assembled by himselfe In that he affirmeth that the Bishops of the east did condemne Honorius with the consent of the Bishop of Rome Hart. The eight generall Councell is corrupted too Rainoldes But Leo the second who was Pope then when the sixth Councell was ended doth namely confirme this point with these wordes we accurse Honorius who hath not lightned this Apostolike Church with Apostolike doctrine but by wicked treacherie hath labored to subuert the vndefiled faith Hart. That epistle of Leo is corrupted too Rainoldes But many other learned both Gréeke and Latin autors Beda Psellus Vmbertus Balsamon Marianus Scotus Tharasius and the easterne bishops yea your owne Pontificall of the Popes liues make reporte of it Hart. What néedeth this adoo It is all answered by Father Robert in a word For either these autors are corrupted them selues or they were deceiued by the copies of the sixth councell being corrupted Rainoldes The saying of Tully I sée is verie true He that is once gone beyond the boundes of modestie must lustily be impudent Albertus Pighius an Archpapist intending to proue in his bookes of the holy princehood of the Church that in all causes of faith and religion the Pope is the soueraine iudge of all Christians whom they are bound to heare and folow because it was absurd he thought and very daungerous to attribute so great a power to one man vnles the man were such as might not erre in faith therefore he tooke vpon him to bring in this doctrine that the praier of Christ for Peters faith not to faile doth priuilege the Pope from falling into any heresie Whereupon as in generall he denied that the Pope may be an heretike though all Diuines and Canonistes by his confession graunt it so to clense Honorius thereof in particular hée said that the copies of the sixth Councell which made against him were corrupted This dealing of Pighius was greatly misliked by lerned men of his own side in so much that one of them reproued him for it in a publike assembly wisht him to recant it They alleaged against him that Honorius was condemned and pronounced an heretike by two generall Councels the sixth and the seuenth wherofthe authoritie ought to be held as sacred But Pighius was so farre from being moued therewith that he wrote a new treatise against those two Councels affirming them to be corrupted and in heat of zeale for the Popes quarell he called the sixth Councell a most cursed Councell Here the Councels case and perill that was like to fall on all autours if such hot heads might make such desperate answeres did stirre vp the spirite of Franciscus Torrensis to write against Pighius whom he hath confuted and proued that Honorius was in deede an heretike condemned by the Councell iustly Sith the which time though Hosius a Cardinall and Onuphrius a Fryer men of hard foreheads haue taken Pighius part yet neither haue they strengthned the reasons of Pighius shaken in péeces by Torrensis and other of your Doctors more ingenuous and sound namely Iouerius Canus Andradius and Alfonsus a Castro haue shewed their mislike of Pighius and Honorius both Yea â—ur countriman Harding who would not graunt so much of any other Pope yet graunted of Honorius that he may be iustly burdened with heresie and fell in deede into it But now behold a newe gamster a Iesuit Father Robert doth set vpon the matter fresh and teacheth in his solemne lectures at Rome that it is true the Pope may be an heretike marry it is probable and godly to be thought that he cannot be an heretike A straunge resolution and fitte for a Iesuit Yet to shew how probable he can make that seeme which he confesseth to be false by holding the contrarie therof to be true he saith somewhat for euery one of those Popes that are charged with heresie and for Pope Honorius he dealeth more impudently then Pighius himselfe For he toucheth not the credit of the sixth or seuenth Councell onely but all that come in his way Councels Popes Grâ—ekes Latins Historians Diuines either they are corrupted or abused by corruption Well may the opinion which Father Robert saith for be probable false both But this of Honorius by which he would confirme it is out of all doubt though false yet not probable Hart. It is probable enough as Father Robert handleth it For streames may be corrupted as easily as the fountaine
the Emperours this witnesse and layeth the blame of those monsters vpon the Romanes themselues The noble men saith he of Rome to aduaunce their owne priuate power corrupted them to whom the Popes election belonged and thereby filled the Church almost two hundred yeares togither with grieuous seditions and shamefull euils and disorders These were the Marques Albert and Alberike his sonne a Consull the Earles of Thusculum they who were of their kinne or by their meanes had grown to wealth Who either bribing the people and clergie with money or spoiling them of the auncient libertie of the election by whatsoeuer other meanes preferred at their lust their kinsmen or frendes men commonly nothing like to the former Popes in holines and good order For the repressing of whose outrage Pope Leo the eighth reuiued the law which had beene made by Adrian the first and repealed by the third that no Pope elected should vndertake the Popedome without the Emperours consent Which law being taken away by occasion that the roome was sought ambitiously in the citie and purchased by bribes the state of the Church was put againe in great daunger through the priuate lusts of the same factions To prouide therefore a remedie for these things Henrie the Emperour came into Italie as hereupon Sigonius sheweth And so you may sée the lewdnes of Genebrard that shamelesse parasite of the Popes who without all reuerence both of God and man doth raile lye and falsifie stories to deface the Emperours and crosse the writers of the Centuries For he saith that the Emperours did as wilde boares eate vp the vineyard of the Lord the stories say that they deliuered it from wilde boares The stories say that the monsters of the Popes were chosen by the Romanes them selues he saith that they came in by intrusion of the Emperours The stories say that the Emperours who hunted out those beastes were vertuous and lawfull Princes he calleth them tyrants nor onely them but also many good Emperours moe who medled with the Popes election Finally the stories say that the Emperours were allowed by Popes and Councels to doo it he saith that they vsurped it by the right of Herode And yet him selfe recordeth and that in the same Chronicle too that Pope Adrian with a Councell Pope Leo with a Councell Pope Clemens with a Councell did graunt it vnto Charles Otho and Henrie the Emperours I haue read of an enuious man who was content to lose one of his owne eies that an other might lose both Genebrard is gone farther For he is content to put out both his owne eies that the writers of the Centuries may put out one of theirs That they may acknowledge them selues to haue praysed the German Emperours vniustly hee graunteth both that Popes with Councels haue erred and that their succession wa◠broken off a great while Wherein if you say the same with him M. Hart I am glad of it But your felowes I feare me will not allow that you say if you allow that he saith Hart. No body saith that the succession of Popes was broken off nor that the Popes may erre and Councels For as Genebrard taketh it Leo the eighth and Clemens the second were not Popes Rainoldes But Adrian the first was as Genebrard taketh it and that one of the best Popes Yet he did graunt as much to Charles the Emperour as Leo did to Otho as Clemens did to Henrie And if it be true that they were not Popes whom yet the Roman clergy with many Bishops chose then the Popes succession which is almost the onely eye of your Cyclops will be cleane put out by the deuise of this No-body And how shall the writings of our Countriemen Sanders Bristow and Rishton and such others do then who make the Popes succession the chiefest bulwarke of your Church a certaine marke that neuer faileth And what will No-body him selfe say to the third booke of his Chronicle where he wrote that Peters succession shall endure in the Church of Rome vntill the end of the world Was this true when he wrote the third booke and was it false when he wrote the fourth Hart. D. Genebrard whom you shal proue to be some-body ere you haue done though you be flouting him with No-body doth shew by the one place his meaning in the other For sith he wrote that Peters succession shall endure in the Church of Rome vntill the end of the world it is plaine he meant not that it was broken of at any time absolutely and simply Wherefore in that he addeth about the fiftie Popes that the lawful succession was disordered then he meant that it was broken but in some sort as it were or to say the truth rather brused then broken not interrupted but disturbed For neither Genebrard saith nor any Catholike writer els but that the succession of Popes hath continued and shall vnto the end Rainoldes Then I mistooke his meaning touching the succession and yours touching the Popes For I thought that you had denied that they were Popes who were theeues and robbers Now I perceiue you meant not absolutely and simply that they were not Popes but that they were not Popes after a kind of sort they were crackt Popes as you would say and not sound or perhaps in truth rather crased then crackt Yet the reason which you brought why they were not Popes doth stand in force against them still For it is true as you said that they did not succeede lawfully Wherefore either lawfull succession is not necessarie vnto your succession or the crased Popes were no Popes at al. They did succéede Simon but Simon the sorcerer and not Simon Peter Howbeit you must count them Simon Peters successours for your successions sake Else you spoile your Church of her gayest ornament through which the vnskilfull are most enamored of her Beside that neither would it helpe your cause a whit in tryall of the issue For sithence the Pope hath ouermaistred the Emperours and thrust from his election first them then the people afterward the clergie brought it to a few Cardinals there haue bene as monstrous Popes as were before still I except Iohn and haue come in as vnlawfully Hart. There were many tumultes and schismes in the Church chiefely through the Emperours meanes before that the matter could be brought about to that perfection and ripenes which it is now at But things began to mend from that time of disorder For by the vertue of Leo the ninth and the Popes folowing that vsurpation was taken from the Emperor Henrie the fourth although with great sturres And so was the Sée Apostolike of Rome restored to her auncient brightnes and beauty Whereof our owne daies haue séene the proofe and triall in many good Popes elected lawfully no doubt Pius the fourth Pius the fifth and him who raigneth now Gregorie the
If any man preach vnto you more then you haue receyued but beside that you haue receyued For if he should say that he should be preiudiciall to him selfe who desired to come to the Thessalonians that he might supply that which was wanting to their faith Now he that supplyeth addeth that which was wanting taketh not away that which was and so forth Whereby S. Austin sheweth that we may preach more then the scripture hath but not beside it that is to say against it Rainoldes He sheweth nothing lesse as any man that readeth his discourse may see For that which he speaketh of more and of wanting is not meant of scripture that is the worde writen but of the worde preached deliuered by mouth Wherein he declareth that the Apostles maner of instructing men was to feede them first with milke not with strong meat So that which was wanting to the Thessalonians was stronger doctrine of the faith that which they had was easier Wherof though in the one he taught them more then in the other yet no more in either then the scripture hath And thus S. Austins more to be no more then scripture himselfe maketh manifest by the example also which he giueth of it For the doctrine of the manhead of Christ he calleth milke of the Godhead strong meat Now they who are taught to know him to be God learne more then they had learned when they receaued him as man But they learne no more then the scripture hath which teacheth him both God and man Wherefore that S. Austin condemning all who preach ought beside the scriptures of the law the gospell meant that more then scriptures may be preached but nought against them it is not S Austins glose but your Louanists and in truth repugnant to S. Austins text For in the same place S. Austin making mention how the Donatists hated him for preaching of the truth and confuting their heresie as though saith he we had commanded the Prophets and Apostles who were so long before vs that they in their bookes should set downe no testimonies whereby the Donatists might be proued to be the church of Christ. Which words doo shew plainly that as by the scriptures of the law the gospel he signified the bookes of the Prophetes Apostles so by condemning all that is beside the scriptures he meant not all that is against but all that is not in the scriptures And that this was his meaning he sheweth yet more plainely by willing them to proue their doctrine by the testament which your Louan Doctors the greater shame for them to wrest S. Austins wordes against his sense doo note also For as amongst men the testament doth open the will of the testaâ—or so did S. Austin thinke that the controuersie betwixt the Donatists and the Church should be decided by the Scriptures which Christ hath left to Christians as his will and testament For Christ hath dealt with vs as an earthly Father is wont with his children who fearing least they should fall out after his decease doth set downe his will in writing vnder witnesses if there arise debate amongst the brethren they go to the testament He whose word must end our controuersie is Christ. Let his wil be sought in his testament saith Optatus Which reason of Optatus S. Austin vrging against the Donatists as he doth other often we are brethreÌ„ saith he to them why doo we striue Our father died not vntestate he made a testament so died Men do striue about the goods of the dead till the testament be brought foorth when that is brought they yeeld to haue it opened read The iudge doth hearken the counsellours be silent the cryer biddeth peace all the people is attentiue that the wordes of the dead man may be read heard He lyeth voide of life feeling in his graue and his words preuaile Christ doth sit in heauen and is his testament gainesaied Open it let vs reade we are brethren why do we striue Let our mindes be pacified Our father hath not left vs without a testament He that made the testament is liuing for euer He doth heare our words he doth know his owne word Let vs reade why doo we striue Were not this a séely spéech of S. Austin if hee had meant as you say that all the Lords will is not declared in his testament that thinges beside his owne worde may be proued by mens words Let him be accursed who preacheth any point of faith or life beside the scriptures True beside the scriptures that is against the scriptures say your Louan Doctours Sée what skil can doo If they were Doctours of the Arches we should haue ioly law For a coosining marchant might claime a thousand pound of a dead mans goods who had bequeathed him a legacy of tweÌ„tie grotes they might adiudge it him with good consciences as not against the testament though beside the testament Nay they might do this with so much better reason then they doo the other by how much the testament of God is more perfit theÌ„ any mans can be and that which Christ bequeathed the Pope is farre lesse in comparison of the supremacie then twentie grotes of a thousand poundes Wherfore say the Doctors of Louan what they liâ—t perhaps they speake for their fée S. Austin meant plainely that sith the Donatists claimed the inheritaunce of Christ to them selues they must proue their title by his will and testament Which if they could not doo or rather séeing that they could not he pronounceth of them they had no right vnto it And thereupon he commeth to the generall sentence of the heauenly iudge denouncing them accursed who in any point either of faith or life doo preach beside that which is deliuered in the scriptures of the law and the gospel Wherein if beside do signifie against then all in this respect is against a testament which is beside a testament Hart. S. Austin and Optatus against the Donatists doo speake reason that vnlesse they can proue their right by Christes testament they may not shut the Catholikes out from his inheritance and claime his goods vnto them selues For it is meete that the will of the testator should be kept But a learned lawier one Francis Baldwin who hath set foorth Optatus and writen notes vpon him doth shew that a testament may be either nuncupatiuum as he calleth it or scriptum either set down in writing or vttered by word of mouth What say you to testamentum nuncupatiuum Rainoldes I graunt that a testament may be made without writing so that it be done before a solemne number of witnesses But the testament of Christ is writen I hope and so doo both Optatus and Austin speake of it Wherefore your learned Lawier may kéepe that law in stâ—re vntill his client néede it Hart. As who say the testament of Christ might not be writen in part though
not in whole Which is Baldwins meaning as it appéereth by the place not of Optatus but of Austin whereto he applieth it Rainoldes But if Baldwin meant so Baldwin should haue remembred that a testament so made is not testamentum nuncupatiuum for that is vnwriten as the very rudiments of the law might teach him but imperfectum rather though writen yet vnperfit And I trust you will not say that the testament of Christ is vnperfit Sure Optatus would not Hart. Nor I sir though you would faine imply as though I said so For if Christ would haue his will in part writen in part deliuered by word of mouth ioyne them both togither they make a perfit testament Rainoldes Then the writen testament of Christ is vnperfit It will be gay and perfit with your traditions patched to it But Optatus thought that his writen testament is perfit of it selfe Which shaketh all the frame of Popery in péeces And this is that Optatus of whom S. Austin speaketh as of a worthy Catholike Bishop equall to Ambrose and Cyprian of whom Fulgentius speaketh as of a holy faithfull interpretor of Paule like to Austin and Ambrose of whom your great Champion doth vaunt so gloriously that he nor he onely but the rest of the Fathers are of your religion as surely and fully as the Pope himselfe Pope Gregorie the thirteenth whereas in very truth not one of them is so For Gregorie the thirteenth is of your religioÌ„ in the Popes supremacie the chiefest point of Poperie as his rules of Chancery for reâ—eru ations and prouisions his accursing of all that appeale from Popes to Councels his bulles against decrees of Councels both prouinciall and generall doo shew From which abomination how farre the Fathers were it shall appéere when you alleage them But Optatus is so plaine against your religion in the point of scriptures and their sufficiencie to decide all controuersies that your chalenger if he read him and not beleeued common-place-bookes of Canisius and other broakers might haue blushed to boast of him For those things which he citeth out of Optatus do not as much as rase the skinne of our religion though they séeme to weake eye sightes But this of scriptures onely doth breake the necke of yours and it is so cléerely the iudgement of Optatus that your owne Baldwin in his Annotations is faine to say of him he vsed that comparison of a testament not so warily Hart. Not so warily as Austin doth For Austin vseth it when he will proue out of the scriptures that the Church is catholike which was one of the pointes of their controuersie with the Donatists Rainoldes But in handling that point he maketh it a generall rule that whether it be of Christ or of his church or of any thing else whatsoeuer pertaining to our faith and life nothing must be preached beside the scriptures that is the testament Hart. But in an other point of their controuersie touching baptisme S. Austin doth alleage not so much the scripture as the tradition of the Apostles Rainoldes Not so much the scripture He doth the scripture then though he alleageth also the custome of the Church deliuered by the Apostles But what is that against the testament Hart. Nay beside the testament which is the word writen he doth commend vnwriten traditions in other places Which proueth that he thought not the testament sufficient to decide all controuersies Rainoldes Now S. Austin findeth fauour at your hands who make him say and vnsay the same But where vnsaith hée that of the sufficiencie of scripture Hart. You may sée in the Augustinian confession of Torrensis in the chapter of Traditions Rainoldes But I would sée it in S. Austin Torrensis is a Iesuit whom we haue taken oft in lyes I cannot trust him Hart. Why He alleageth S. Austins owne wordes As in the first place which bringeth in S. Cyprian too Quod autem nos admonet Cyprianus vt ad fontem recâ—rramus id est Apostolicam traditionem inde canalem in nostra tempora dirigamus optimum est sine dubitatione faciendum That is to say whereas Cyprian warneth vs that we should go to the coondit head which is the tradition of the Apostles and thence direct the pipe to our owne times that is best and to be done out of all dout These are S. Austins owne wordes Rainoldes S. Austins owne wordes in déede But what doth folow in S. Austin Traditum est ergo nobis sicut ipse commemorat ab Apostolis quòd sit vnus deus Christus vnus vna spes fides vna vna ecclesia baptisma vnum That is to say It is deliuered therefore to vs by the Apostles as Cyprian himselfe rehearseth that there is one God and one Christ and one hope and one faith and one church and one baptisme These are S. Austins owne wordes and grounded on S. Cyprian too So that he and Cyprian meant by tradition that which is deliuered and that to be deliuered which is writen in the scriptures For this selfe same thing whereof they speake is writen in the epistle of Paule to the Ephesians Wherefore their traditioÌ„ is tradition writen that is to say scripture and not vnwriten stuffe as your Iesuit would haue it Yea Cyprian is so plaine for controuersies to be decided by this tradition onely that in the same epistle whence Austin citeth this to the words of Stephanus Traditum est it is deliuered vnde est ista traditio faith he whence is this tradition Doth it come from the authoritie of the Lord and the gospell or from the commaundements and epistles of the Apostles For that we must doo those things which are writen God doth witnesse saying to Ioshua Let not this booke of the law depart out of thy mouth but meditate in it day and night that thou maiest obserue to performe all thinges which are writen therein And likewise the Lorde sending his Apostles willed them that the nations should bee baptized and taught to obserue all things which he had commaunded Wherefore if this thing of the which Stephanus saith it is deliuered be commaunded in the gospell or contained in the epistles or actes of the Apostles let this diuine and holy tradition be obserued Sée you not how Cyprian thought that all which Christ commanded to be taught is writen How hee meant this writen doctrine by tradition How his words of this tradition are approued by Austin What conscience had your Iesuit to alleage that for traditions beside scriptures which they so plainely meant of the scriptures them selues Hart. I do not sée this neither in S. Austin nor in S. Cyprian Rainoldes I am the soryer that your sight serueth you no better For the thing is so cléere that your owne Pamelius declareth that Cyprian meant the holy scriptures there by tradition Hart. Yet Pamelius addeth that if
and loosing giuen Peter as though after Peter it were proper to the Pope Denys saith the contrarie that it is common to all Bishops Whereby you may perceiue beside that if the title which he giueth Peter did proue his supremacie though I haue shewed it doth not but if it did yet your commoÌ„ reason from Peters supremacie to the Popes is iointlesse For he who calleth Peter chiefe of the Apostles yet maketh Bishops equal and giueth Rome no greater priuilege then Antioche or Ierusalem But to knit vp that which brought vs vnto this of Denys you sée that your Rhemists tale of the assumption of the blessed virgin is contrarie to the scriptures Yet they doo beléeue it for the authoritie of Fathers That I might dout iustly whether you would beléeue the Fathers in those things in which they are conuicted of errour by the scriptures Hart. I cannot beléeue that the scriptures are against it For the Church doth holde it I meane the Catholike Church of Rome Rainoldes In that your Rhemists lauish too For though the lying Greekes as your Molanus calleth them doo vouch it very boldly yet the Latin writers do say it is vncertaine Yea the verie Martyrologe of the Roman Church affirmeth that the Church celebrateth the memory of S. Maries death but where it hath pleased God to hide her body the Churches sobrietie hath chosen rather to be ignorant therof religiously then to holde and teach some friuolous thing forged How much the more shamefull is the misdemeanor first of a Papist who saith that it is certaine she was assumpted by death not onely in soule but in body also then of the Pope who setting foorth his new Portesse saith that those things which are vncertaine are put out where this is left in which they can not denie themselues to be vncertaine But your Rhemists passe Who as though the Porâ—esse were not bolde enough in alleaging Damascene though it mende his tale with more then one lye they take that which their Portesse doth tell them lye and al and father it vpon S. Denys that it may haue the greater credit Hart. Our Rhemists will render good account I dout not of this which they haue writen when they shall heare what is said against it And that which you declared out of the holy scriptures concerning the time of S. Denys conuersion which is the greatest argument that you brought yet to disproue the storie auouched of his preseÌ„ce at the departure of our Lady I must referre to them For I my selfe know not indéede how to accord it But why do you presse that point about the Fathers touching their ouerseeing ether the wordes or meaning or consequent of the scriptures We are past the scriptures and proofes that the Fathers do gather out of them Rainoldes But if they may gather amisse out of the scriptures and ouershoote them selues in the word of God they may be deceiued in the word of man too and either not conceiue well or not remember well or not conclude well of it Which hapned to S. Ierom in that same point that I reproued a litle rather in Eusebius For he reckning Philo the Iew amongst the Christian ecclesiastical writers doth it he saith for this reason because Philo writing a booke touching the first Church planted by the Euangelist S. Mark in Alexandria hath praised the Christians reporting them to be not onely there but in many countries and calling their dwelling places Monasteries Whereby it is apparant that the Church of beleeuers in Christ at the first was such as moonkes endeuour and seeke to be now that nothing is any mans owne in proprietie none is rich amongst them none poore their patrimonies are distributed to the needy they giue them selues wholy to prayer and to singing of Psalmes and to learning and to continencie of life such as S. Luke also doth write that the beleeuers were first at Ierusalem And this booke of Philo touching the life of our men that is of men Apostolike is entitled of the contemplatiue life of men that pray because they did contemplate studie and meditate heauenly things and prayed to God alwayes Thus farre S. Ierom. Wherein that the pointes of contemplation and prayer being somewhat like in them whom Philo wrote off and in the Christian Church did make him to mistake the one for the other as likenes they say is the mother of error but that they were not Christians whom Philo meant in that booke it may appeere by foure circumstances of names of deedes of times and of places For they of whom Philo doth write were called Essees which was a sect of Iewes of whom some liued in action and some in contemplation The Christians were neuer knowne by name of Essees either contemplatiue or actiue Againe they in Philo did leaue their goods and substance to their sonnes or daughters or kinsemen or if they had no kinsemen to their friendes The Christians gaue them to the poore and such as stood in need of succour Moreouer the solemne day which they in Philo did meete together publikely to heare the word of God taught was the seuenth day of the weeke which was the Sabbat of the Iewes the saterday as we cal it The Christians were wont to meete on the first day of the weeke that is sonday the Lordes day as S. Iohn termeth it Finally they whom Philo discourseth of did liue in no towne or citie but without in gardens and solitarie places The Christians liued in cities Euen they who are namely mentioned by Ierom I meane the Christian Church placed by S. Marke in Alexandria were planted in the citie Alexandria it selfe whereas it is precisely noted by Philo that his Iewish moonkes did dwell about it and without it Wherefore it is manifest that Ierom did mistake or had forgot the wordes of Philo. Howbeit if he had both well conceiued and remembred them yet he thereof inferred amisse that the moonkes in his time were such as S. Luke doth write that the beleeuers were first at Ierusalem For the beleeuers at Ierusalem might keepe their owne if they listed as Peter saith to Ananias while it remained perteined it not to thee And when it was sold was it not in thine own power But Ierom saith that his moonks may not haue proprietie in any thing of their owne Beside the moonkes of Ierom did liue in continencie The beléeuers at Ierusalem had wiues vsed them for any thing that S. Luke sheweth Though by the way to note the difference betwéene the Iewish moonkes the Christian who els would be too like some of the Christian moonks in Ieroms time had wiues did beget childreÌ„ which I haue not read that anie of the Iewish did Last of all the moonkes whom Ierom doth meane as he must néedes by Philo were moonkes according to their
name that is solitarie and not collegiate moonkes But the beléeuers at Ierusalem were at Ierusalem in a citie and liued in fellowship together Doo you not sée that the Apostles and Apostolike men were not such as afterwarde the moonkes whom Ierom meaneth and therefore Ierom was deceiued Hart. I will not beléeue on your worde that so worthie a Father was deceiued Rainoldes If you will not on my worde I will bring his owne worde to make you beléeue it For writing to Paulinus touching the training vp of moonkes he saith that the Apostles and Apostolike men are not paterns for them to folow but S. Antonie and others who dwelt in fieldes and deserts Hart. He saith that the Apostles and Apostolike men are set for an example to Priestes and Bishops not to moonkes True in some respectes And yet me thinkes too But what if the Fathers perhaps might be deceiued so through ouersight Rainoldes If they might be deceiued so through ouersight they might be deceiued through affection also For they were men and subiect to it As Cyprian through too much hatred of heretikes condemned the baptisme of heretikes as vnlawfull wherein a Councell erred with him As Origen through too much compassion of the wicked thought that the diuels them â—elues should be saued at length As Tertullian through spite of the Roman clergie reuolted to the Montanists and called the Catholikes carnall men because they were not so precise as the Montanists in pointes of mariage and fasting Hart. We condemne these errours in them as well as you and doo therein except against them Rainoldes You doo except also I trow I am sure your Doctors doo against Damascene for his tale of Gregorie the Pope and Traian the Emperour that Gregorie while he went ouer the market place of Traian did pray for Traians soule to God and behold a voyce from heauen I haue heard thy prayer and I pardon Traian but see that thou pray no more to me for the wicked A verie great affection to prayers for the dead that moued Damascene to write this For it is against the doctrine of the Schoolemen that prayers may helpe out the soules that are in hell In Purgatorie they say they may Hart. S. Thomas doth confirme the same Yet he beléeueth that of Damascene But he saith that Gregorie did it by speciall priuilege which doth not breake the common law Rainoldes But your Canus saith that Thomas was a young man then beside that he was greatly affected to Damascen And Damascen might easily perswade a well willer he doth affirme so lustily that all the east and west is witnesse that the thing is true Which report of his yet Canus doth maruell at sith it is vnknowne in all the Latin story But Canus as a man of better minde and sounder iudgement then your Popish Doctors are the most of them did wisely sée noteth fréely that not onely later and lesse discreete autours as he who made the golden legend but also graue ancient learned holy Fathers haue ouershot them selues in writing miracles of Saintes partly while they fetched the truth where it is seldom from common rumors and reportes partly while they sought to please the peoples humor and thought it lawfull for historians to write thinges as true which coÌ„monly are counted true Of this sorte he nameth Gregorie and Bede the one for his Dialogues the other for his English story He might haue named Damascene with them Unlesse hee meant him rather perhaps to be of that sorte which did not onely take by heare-say of others but coyned lyes themselues too wrote those thinges of Saintes which their fansie liked though neither true nor likely As that S. Frauncis was wont to take lise that were shaken off and put them on himselfe it was a lowsie tricke and S. Frauncis did it not but the writer thought it an argument of his holinesse Likewise that when the diuel troubled S. Dominike S. Dominike constrained him to hold a candle in his handes till the candle being spent did put him to great grief in burning his fingers Such examples there are innumerable but these two may giue a taste of their affection who haue defiled the stories of Saintes with filthie fables Yet out of such stories many thinges are read in your Church-seruice And Canus although he confesse it as euident notwithstanding which is straunge he thinketh them vnwise Bishops who seeke to reforme it For while they cure the nailesore saith he they hurt the head that is in steede of counterfeites they bring in graue stories but they chaunge the seruice of the Church so farre that scarce any shew of the olde religion is remaining in it A thing well considered of them by whom your Roman Portesse was reformed For though they haue remoued some of those stories which Canus saith are vncertaine forged friuolous and false yet haue they doon it sparingly If they should haue left out all those legend-toyes their Portesse had beene like our booke of common prayer which heretikes would haue laught at and there had remained no shew in a maner of the olde religion saue that their seruice is in Latin Hart. These thinges are impertinent but that it pleaseth you to play the Hicke-scorner with the holy Portesse For what need you mention the writer of S. Francis life or S. Dominikes or the golden legend that old moth-eaten booke as D. Harding calleth it of the liues of Saintes I mind not to presse you with thinges of later writers but of olde and ancient whom Canus iudgeth better of then of the younger For he saith of Vincentius Beluacensis and Antoninus that they cared not so much to write thinges true and certaine as to let go nothing that they found writeÌ„ in any papers whatsoeuer But of Bede and Gregorie he iudgeth more softly and rather excuseth them then reproueth them Though iudge he how he listed he was but one Doctour and other learned men perhaps mislike his iudgement both for younger and elder writers Rainoldes They who deale with taming of lyons I haue read are wont when they finde them somewhat out of order to beate dogges before them that in a dogge the lyon may see his owne desert Euen so when I rebuke the writer of S. Francis life or of S. Dominikes or of the moth-eaten booke as you call it though he who wrote it was an Archbishop in his time a man of name and his booke a legend read publikely in Churches and called golden for the excellencie but when I rebuke that moth-eaten writer or Antoninus if you will and Vincentius Beluacensis who are as good as he welnigh you must not thinke I doo it for the dogges sake but for the lions rather I meane the ancient writers who deserue rebuke too For as not Rupertus
possessed any they bore not themselues as Lordes of the whole Countie I meane they neyther claimed nor vsed the supremacie Hart. But will you graunt that so much then of the suprepremacie as they claimed or vsed belongeth to their Sée and is theirs of right Rainoldes No. For the exception which I made against them was of two branches one that they auouch not the supremacie of the Pope the other that they auouch more through affection then is true and right And this is very manifest not onely by the dealinges of them whom I named but also by the writinges of them whom you alleaged Hart. Of the thirde sort of Popes if you meane they may be refused perhaps with greater shewe of reason But they whom I alleaged of the second sort were holy men and Saints Rainoldes The Apostles of Christ I hope were Saintes too Yet hath the spirite of God set down for our instruction that they did not onely desire superioritie but also striue about it Innocentius Leo Gelasius Vigilius Pelagius and Gregorie the men whoÌ„ you alleaged were not greater then the Apostles And the praise which they giue to their See of Rome doth so excéede the truth that it beareth euident markes of their affection You might haue perceiued it in that which you cited out of Innocentius concerning the Fathers and the sentence of God by which he saith they decreed that whatsoeuer was done in prouinces farre off it should not be concluded before it came to the notice of the See of Rome For what were the Fathers who decréed that where is the sentence of God by which they did it Though this is the least of many friendlie spéeches which not Innocentius onely but the rest too as I haue shewed in Leo doo lend their Church Peter Yea some flat repugnant to the holy scripture and that confessed by your selues For they say that all Churches tooke their beginning from the Roman The holy scripture maketh Ierusalem the spring of them They say that all Bishops had their honor and name from Peter The holy scripture teacheth that many had it from other Apostles not from him They say that the Church of Rome hath neither spot norwrinckle nor any such thing The holy scripture sheweth that the Church is sanâ—ctified framed to be hereafter not hauing spot or wrinckle or any such thing wheÌ„ Christ shal make it glorious triumphant in heauen not but that it hath such while it is militant on the earth Which is so apparant that not the Fathers only but Thomas of Aquine also and D Stapleton confesse it Wherefore howsoeuer holy men they were of the second sort of Popes which you alleaged it cannot be denied but they had affections and yéelded thereunto as men Howbeit the thirde sort I graunt are best worthy to be excepted against for this fault For it is a small thing with them to vse spéeches repugnant to the Scripture but they must abuse yea coine scripture too for maintenance of their Papall port They can teach the Church that the Pope may offer to confirme Archbishops vpon this condition if they will be sworne to him because wheÌ„ Christ committed his sheepe vnto Peter he did condition with him saying if thou loue me feede my sheepe They can teach the Church that the Pope hath power ouer all powers Princes of the earth none hath power ouer him because the spirituall man iudgeth all thinges yet hee himselfe is iudged of no maÌ„ They can teach the Church that Christ ordeyned Peter and Peters successors to be his vicars who by the testimony of the booke of kinges must needes be so obeyed that he who obeieth them not must die the death and as it is read otherwhere Hee that forsaketh the Bishop of Romes chaire cannot bee in the Church Hart. That which is cyted out of the booke of kinges is in the booke of Deuteronomie The text is true scripture though the place mistaken And though it belong not to the Pope immediatly Rainoldes Nay neuer goe about to salue it M. Hart. That of Deuteronomie we haue alredy handled Pope Leo the tenth and his Councel of Laterane had a strong affection to make the Popes Kinges when they alleaged the booke of kinges for Deuteronomie Deuteronomie for the Papacie But what soeuer you think of the third or seconde or any sort of Popes it is against all law both of God and man that they should bée witnesses in their own matter And therefore if your proofe of their supremacie be no better the iury will cast you out of all controuersie For if I should beare witnesse of my selfe saith Christ my witnesse were not true None are fit witnesses in their own causes no not though they were as worthy meÌ„ as Scipio was amoÌ„gst the Romans It were a bad plea in Westminster Hall Iohn a Noke must haue this land for Iohn a Noke saith so The Canonistes themselues when Popes alleage Popes for proofe of certaine pointes touching their supremacie doe note that it is a familiar kind of proofe meaning such belike as that in the common prouerbe Aske my felow if I be a theefe Which they might note the better because it is euideÌ„t that the Popes haue stretched out their owne frindges in laying claime to large power as great Diuines among you haue written in these very termes Hart. The power which they claimed hath séemed ouer large to enuious and malicious men But it was no more then their right and due Which because you thinke not sufficiently prooued by the Popes themselues I will prooue it farther by the wordes and testimonies of other ancient Fathers Rainoldes Of whom Hart. Of the chéefest of them both Gréeke and Latine For it was the prerogatiue of the Popes office that made S. Bernarde séeke to Innocentius the third Epist. 190. S. Austin and the Bishops of Afrike to Innocentius the first and to Caelestinus Epist. 90.92.95 S. Chrysostome to the saide Innocentius Epist. 1. 2. S. Basil to the Pope in his time Epist. 52. S. Ierom to Damasus Epist. 57.58 tom 2. and other likewise to others that by them they might be confirmed in faith and ecclesiasticall regiment Rainoldes If you bring such witnesses to proue the Popes supremacie I must request the iury to haue an eye to the issue For some of these Fathers desired to be helped by their aduise and counsell some by their autoritie and credit some by both By their aduise and counsell as Ierom of Damasus By their autoritie credit as Chrysostome of Innocentius By both as Basill Austin and the Bishops of Afrike of the Popes in their time Bernard somewhat more But he liued yesterday in comparison of the rest and therfore not to be numbred amongst the auncient Fathers Though neither he by this
so well liked of the ancient Doctors that Austin saith that all things concerning faith and maners are contained in those I say not which are but which are plaine in scripture Chrysostome auoucheth in the like maner that euery thing is cleere and euident by the scriptures and whatsoeuer things are necessarie they are manifest Tertullian pronounceth that himselfe honoureth the fulnes of the scriptures and denounceth a woe to Hermogenes the heretike if he take ought from those things which are writen or adde to them Ierom in the controuersie which he had with Heluidius doth turne the reason in and out we beleeue it because we reade it we beleeue it not because we reade it not Cyrill obserueth that such of the things doon by Christ are writen as the writers thought to be sufficient for maners and doctrine Basil affirmeth that it is a manifest reuolting from the faith either to disallow any thing that is writen or to bring in any thing that is not writen to be short all the Fathers vnlesse it were when some humaine infirmity ouertooke them agrée with one minde and say with one voice that all things which God hath willed vs to beléeue and doo are comprehended in the scriptures For as touching that some of them sometimes as Basil and Epiphanius assaying all sortes of helpes against heretikes will haue certaine things to be contained in traditions whereto by the iudgement of scripture it selfe there must no lesse credit be geuen then to scripture I take not vpon me to controll them but let the Church iudge whether they considered with aduise inough those sayings of S. Paul by which they were induced perhaps to this opinion at least they séeke to prooue it For Epiphanius groundeth vpon these wordes of his to the Corinthians as I deliuered to you and I haue deliuered so in the Churches and if ye keepe it except ye haue beleeued in vaine And Basil gathereth it to be Apostolike doctrine that we must hold fast vnwriten traditions by his wordes to the Thessalonians hold the traditions which ye haue been taught either by word or by our epistle Now if S. Paul meant in both these places by deliuered and traditions his doctrine deliuered to them by word of mouth yet comprised in scripture too then must it be granted that they were deceiued who thought that vnwriten traditions were approoued by S. Pauls traditions But the former point is true that he meant so Therefore the later also is true which foloweth of it For he dooth expound it himselfe to the Corinthians considering that he writeth the summe of those things which he had deliuered and what he deliuered that he receiued he saith of the Lord and that which he receiued of the Lord is writen and in plaine termes he witnesseth himselfe to haue deliuered that vnto them which he had receiued according to the scriptures to weet that Christ died for our sinnes according to the scriptures and that he was buried and that hee rose the third day according to the scriptures As for the Thessalonians what the things were which he deliuered vnto them by word it is shewed in the actes of the Apostles where we reade that Paul being come to Thessalonica taught the Iewes out of the scriptures that it behooued Christ to suffer and to rise again from the dead and that this Iesus whom said he I preach to you is the Christ. In which words it is opened both what Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians by word and from whence from whence out of the scriptures what that it behooued Christ to suffer and rise againe and that Iesus is the Christ. The tradition therefore which Paul dooth exhort the Thessalonians to hold is the tradition of the gospell as Ambrose calleth it very wel Which the reason also doth proue that Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather God hath raysed you to saluation by our gospell therefore stand ye fast and hold the traditions which ye haue been taught either by word or by our epistle as if he should say see therefore that ye stand stedfast in the gospell which I as well by word of mouth as by writing haue deliuered to you Thus S. Pauls traditions are the gospel deliuered And the gospel I hope is writen Therfore S. Pauls traditions are writen But the saluation of the Thessalonians was contained in the traditions which S. Paul had taught them by word by epistle The scripture then informeth the Church of so much as is necessary to saluation Wherfore auant heretikes out of the schoole of Christ ye Valentinians Marcionites and Gnostikes who as Irenaeus reporteth did deny that the truth may be learned out of the holy scriptures by them who know not tradition Auant Iewes by whom the Cabala of the Rabbins auant Montanists by whom the new Comforter auant Anabaptists by whom reuelations auant ye Trent-councell-fathers and ye Papist◠by whom traditions beside scripture are falsly reputed to be necessarie to saluation Our saluation is Christ the way to saluation faith the guide of the way scripture whereof the light and lanterne directeth our steps the food nourisheth our soules the preseruatiue keepeth vs from diseases the sword killeth our enimies the plaister healeth our woundes in a word the safe conduit doth bring vs vnto eternall life The second Conclusion which I am next to treate of doth vndertake to shew that the militant Church may erre both in maners and in doctrine In maners against the Puritans who chalenging to them selues a singular kinde of holinesse denyed repentance to such as had fallen In doctrine against the Papists who for a defense and shield of their errours hold forth this bugge to fright vs out of our wits The Church can not erre Here that the truth may be the better opened the name of Church must be distinguished For as Thrasylaus a frantike man amongst the Greekes whensoeuer he saw any ships ariue into the hauen at Athens thought them all his owne and tooke an inuentory of their wares and met them with great ioy after the like maner certaine frantike Romanists wheresoeuer they see the name of the Church in the holy scripture they take it to be theirs and booke the treasures of it and boast thereof as of their owne crying the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it But to remoue these frantike men out of the hauen and deliuer the marchants ech their owne ships set the Church it selfe in possession of the Church the name of the Church in Gréeke the natiue language of the new testament cometh from a verbe which signifyeth to call out thereby to note a company called out as you would say So that the Church of Christ be tokeneth a company called out from amongst the multitude of other men to life euerlasting through faith in Christ Iesus But they who are
and our Church doth hold The third Councell of Carthage which therein the Councel of Trent subscribeth to did adde the bookes of Maccabes the rest of the apocrypha to the old Canon The Councel of Nice appointed boundes and limits as wel for the Bishop of Romes iurisdiction as for other Bishops The Councell of Lateran gaue the soueraintie of ordinarie power to the Church of Rome ouer al other Churches The Councell of Constance decréed that the Councell is aboue the Pope and made the Papall power subiect to generall Councels Which thing did so highly displease the Councell of Florence that it vndermined the Councell of Basill and guilefully surprised it for putting that in â—re against Pope Eugenius Upon the which pointes it must needes be graunted that one side of these generall Councels did erre vnlesse we will say that thinges which are contrarie may be true both Wherefore to make an end sith it is apparant by most cléere proofes that both the chosen and the called both the flockes and the Pastours both in seuerall by them selues and assembled together in generall Councels may erre I am to conclude with the good liking I hope of such as loue the truth that the militant Church may erre in maners and doctrine In the one point whereof concerning maners I defend our selues against the malicious sclanders of the Papists who charge the Church of England with the heresie of Puritans impudently and falsly In the other concerning doctrine I doo not touch the walles of Babilon with a light finger but raze from the very ground the whole mount of the Romish Synagogue Whose intolerable presumption is reproued by the third Conclusion too wherein it resteth to be shewed that the holy scripture is of greater credit autoritie then the Church And although this be so manifestly true that to haue proposed it onely is to haue proued it yet giue me leaue I pray to proue it briefly with one reason I will not trouble you with many All the wordes of scripture be the wordes of truth some wordes of the Church be the words of errour But he that telleth the truth alwayes is more to be credited then he that lyeth sometimes Therefore the holy scripture is to be credited more then is the Church That all the wordes of scripture be the wordes of truth it is out of controuersie For the whole scripture is inspired of God and God can neither deceiue nor be deceiued That some wordes of the Church be the wordes of errour if any be not perswaded perhaps by the reasons which I haue brought already let him heare the sharpese and most earnest Patrone of the Church confessing it Andradâ—us Payua a Doctor of Portugall the best learned man in my opinion of all the papists reherseth certaine pointes wherein Councels also may erre euen generall Councels in so much that he saith that the very generall Councel of Chalcedon one of those four first which Gregorie professeth him selfe to receiue as the foure bookes of the holy Gospell yet Andradius saith that this Councell erred in that it did rashly and without reason these are his own wordes ordeine that the Church of Constantinople should be aboue the Churches of Alexandria and Antiâ—â—he Neither doth he onely say that the Councell of Chalcedon erred and contraried the decrees of the Nicen Cuncell but he addeth also a reason why Councels may erre in such cases to weete because they folow not the secret motion of the holy ghost but idle Blastes of vaine reportes and mens opinions which deceiue oft A Councell then may folow some times the deceitfull opinions of men and not the secret motion of the holy ghost Let the Councels then giue place to the holy scriptures whereof no part is vttered by the spirit of man but all by the spirit of God For if some cauiller to shift of this reason shall say that we must not account of that errour as though it were the iudgement of the generall Councell because the Bishop of Rome did not allow it and approue it I would request him first of all to weigh that a generall Councell and assemblie of Bishops must néedes be distinguished from this and that particular Bishop so that what the greater part of them ordeineth that is ordeined by the Councell next to consider that the name of Church may be giuen to an assemblis of Bishops and a Councell but it can not be giuen to the Bishop of Rome lastly to remember that the Bishop of Rome Honorius the first was condemned of heresie by the generall Councell of Constantinople allowed and approued by Agatho Bishop of Rome Wherefore take the name of Church in what sense soeuer you list be it for the company either of Gods chosen or of the called too or of the guides and Pastours or be it for the Bishop of Rome his owne person though to take it so it seemeth very absurd the Bishop of Rome him selfe if he were to be my iudge shall not be able to deny vnlesse his forhead be of adamant but that some of the Churches words are wordes of errour Now if the Bishop of Rome and Romanistes them selues be forced to confesse both that the Church saith some things which are erroneous and that the scripture saith nothing but cleere truth shall there yet be found any man either so blockishly vnskilfull or so frowardly past shame as that he dare affirme that the Church is of greater credit and autoritie then the holy scripture Pighius hath doon it in his treatise of the holy gouernment of the church Where though he in 〈◊〉 â—â—llify with gallant salues his cursed spéech yet to build the tower of his Church and Antichrist with the ruines of Christ and of the holy scripture first he saith touching the writings of the Apostles that they were giuen to the church not that they should rule our faith and religion but that they should bee ruled rather and then he concludeth that the autoritie of the church is not onely not inferiour not onely equall nay it is superiour also after a sort to the autoritie of the scriptures Plinie reporteth that there was at Rome a certaine diall set in the field of Flora to note the shadowes of the sunne the notes and markes of which diall had not agreed with the sunne for the space of thirty yeares And the cause thereof was this as Plinie saith that either the course of the sunne was disordered and changed by some meanes of heauen or els the whole earth was slipt away from her centre The Church of Rome séemeth to be very like this diall in the field of Flora. For she was placed in the Roman territorie to shew the shadowes of the sunne euen of the sunne of righteousnes that is of Christ but her notes and markes haue not agreed with Christ these many yeares togither Not that
fruites and other policies of the Popes to the end that he and his Courtly traine may be more rich in wealth more galant in brauery more high in Princely state Hath not all Christendome borne to their griefe the yoke of the ambition and couetousnes of Rome which crieth out like Iudas what wil ye geue me There is extant in print the defense and Apologie of the Church of England shewing fresh markes of the Roman tyranny wherewith our countrie hath béen seared as with a hote burning yron There is extant a supplication of the parlament of Paris wherein the Frenchmen request their king to ease them of the cursed extortions iniuries and guiles of the Court of Rome There are extant the hundred greeuances of Germany whose complaints writen as it were with their own blood doo shew with what outrage the Sée of Rome hath throwen down oppressed brused and spoyled that most noble nation There are extant infinite bookes of lamentations writen by lerned men of al coastes quarters in the middest of the Papacy confessing all with one consent that the discipline of the church is greatly decayed The Papistes themselues in the Councell of Trent doo not confesse it onely but also witnesse it by publike writing to the world There was gathered together a Councell at Constance about an eight score yéeres since that the church might be reformed both in the head and in the members The matter not being accomplished at Constance was enterprised againe at Basill But Eugenius the fourth who was Pope then could not abide the reformation and therefore reuoked the Councell of Basill by messages and bulles which sith they disobeied he brake it vp by force of armes And whereas there was made an act by the French king with his States that sundry decrees and ordinances of that Councel should be of force in France the Popes who succéeded Eugenius neuer rested till they had gotten that act repealed The last hope remained in the Councell of Trent and truely many things were decréed there for points of reformation wisely and worthily But thrée spots of mischiefes touched by Heruetus a Papist of so much the greater weight his testimonie is against Papists doo renue the old corruptions one that the decrees although they were made were not obserued yet another that although they should be obserued yet they are not such as might restore fully the ancient good orders the last that although they restored the ancient orders yet doo they litle good because the Pope is not bound to lawes him selfe and he dispenseth with whom he list so that medicines heale not the wounds but make them woorse as long as the Pope may repeale alter peruert and breake through the decrees of the Councell with his dispensations And out of all dout that detestable clause annexed to decrees of reformation in the Councell prouided alwaies that the Popes autoritie be safe and no way preiudiced dooth shew the Roman Church to be not onely sick but also past hope of recouering her health For as in mens bodies the greater the spleene waxeth the lesser waxe the rest of the members they say so the more safe the Popes autoritie is the lesse safe will all parts of the Church be The Court of Rome with poyson strōg infected to destroy With the contagion of her sores dooth countries all anoy Wherfore to knitte vp the summe of my reason séeing it is manifest by the very euidence of the things themselues that nether the faith of Christ is taught purely nor the sacraments rightly ministred nor prayers made religiously nor discipline duely practised in the Church of Rome if the former reason of causes séeme too weake yet is it fully proued I hope by the effects that the Church of Rome is no sound member of the Catholike church How much more absurde were it to count her the Catholike Church The Church of Rome therefore is neither the Catholike nor a sound member of the Catholike Church I haue stayed longer in opening this Conclusion then I had purposed but I may runne ouer the last so much the more speedily For knowing how the Church of Rome is infected with pestilent diseases the contagion whereof as the lepers sore because it is daungerous to them who dwell neere it must therefore be remoued out of the campe of the faithfull we may be assured that the reformed Churches in England Scotland Fraunce Germanie and other kingdomes common weales haue seuered themselues lawfully from the Church of Rome For that is done lawfully which is done by the warrant of the word of God all whose commaundements are righteousnesse saith the Prophet But the reformed Churches obeyed his commandement in seuering themselues from the Church of Rome Therefore they seuered themselues from the Church of Rome lawfully For as ecclesiasticall societies and Church-assemblies were ordained by God that his elect and chosen should seeke him and praise him that is learne to know him and worship him being known so where his right faith and knowledge is not taught or he is not serued and worshipped aright thence doth he commaund his seruants to depart To depart first from that Church-assemblie where his right faith and knowlege is not taught the charge is giuen to Timothee Whom S. Paul aduertising of such as taught other doctrine then he did and not the wholesome words of Christ and godly doctrine declareth the qualities and fruites of those woolues and biddeth him depart from them from such sayth Paul depart thou depart thou frō their assembly and Church For so must such teachers be departed from as himselfe declared by his example at Ephesus Where he frequented the synagogue of the Iewes for the space of three moneths But when certaine obstinate disobedient persons spake euill of the way of God before the multitude he departed from them and separated the disciples So that hée seuered not himselfe onely but others also from that Church wherein the way of God was euill spoken of and men were not taught to know and beléeue in him aright Now that we must likewise depart from that Church wherein God is not serued and worshipped aright it is writen to the Corinthians Who being admonished to flee from idolatrie and from al communion with idolatrous worship are charged not to yoke thēselues with idolaters in their assemblies méetinges For what fellowship hath righteousnesse with vnrighteousnesse light with darkenesse Christ with Belial the faithful with the infidell the temple of God with idols Wherfore come out from among them and separate your selues sayth the Lord. Separate your selues from them sayth the Lord the Lord sayth not I. The Lord sayth to the Iewes go ye not vp to Beth-auen not Hosea but the Lord sayth It is called Beth-el but it is
ecclesia Roman libr. â— sect 5. l c. Quoniam quidam Distinâ—â— 1â—â— m Sacrar ceremonia eccle Roman lib. 1. sect 10. n c. Ego N. Episcopus extra de iureiurando o Felinus Comment in c. Ego N. episcopus de iureiurando p c. Ego N. Episcopus Papatum sanctae Romanae ecclesiae regulas sanctoruÌ„ patrum adiutorero ad defendenduÌ„ retinendum * Pope Gregory the 7. Mat. Paris in Henrico tert Pope Gregory the 13. in bulla ad Mauricium episcopum Imelacensem q Iohn 20.28 Hardin confutation of the Apologie The Author of the discouery of Nichols s Iohan. Casa episcop Beneâ—ent t Sueton. in vita Domitian u c. Cum inter in glossa extravagant Ioh. 22. x Psal. 82.6 y Sueton. Sext. aur Vict. in Domit. z Vineâ— lib. 1. de causis art corrupt * Reâ— 3 2â— a Hebr. 3.13 b Ioh. 5.44 c Ioh. 12. â—3 1 In a booke intitled A true declaration report of the conference had in the Tower of London with CaÌ„pian c. wrâ—â—ten by one 〈◊〉 was present at the whole action * Mat. â—3 1â— d As of the second Nicen councell action quint. e As of Chrysostom in Mat. hom 49. oper imperf f As of Gratian dist 19. can in canonicis g For the Nicen councel Sixt. Senens biblioth sanct lib. 5. annot 8. Barthol CarraÌ„z in samm concil For Chrysostom Sixt. Senens bib· sanct l. 6. ann 104. Robert Bellarmin controu 1. quaest 6. For Gratian Alfons a Castr. aduersus haer lib. 1. cap. 2. Andrad defension sidei Trident lib. 3. and Campian himself almost too at last h Augustin epist. â—0 ad Bonif Com. i Leo ep 87. * Hunc enim in consortium indiuiduae vnitatis assumptum id quod ipse erat voluit nominari k Ioh. 17. vers 11. l ver 20. 21. m Deut. 6.4 n 1. Cor. 8.6 o Cant. 6.8 p Act. 4 3â— q Ephes. 4.4 r Harding in his Detect lib. 3. cap. 33. s Ioh. 17. vers 22. 24. t In Ephesin synod secund concil Chalced. Leo. ep 10. ad Flauianum u Sermon 2. in anniuers die assumpt suae Serm. 2. in Nata Apost Pet. Paul x Hebr. 4 8. Colos. 4.11 Aggae 2.2 Zachar. 3.1 Psal. 105.15 z Mat. 5.14 * Chap. 2. Diuis 1. a Leo Serm. 3. in anniuers die assumption suae b Esai 42.8 c In the places before alleaged Dan. 7.9 Iob. 32.6 f 33.12 g 32.21 h Platina de vlt. Pontif. in Gregorio Septimo 1 Sâ—ruum tuum 2 quem educasti abinfantia 3 ab iniquoram manibus vindicasti 4 pro mea in te fide 5 Tu mihi testis es optimus 6 gratia tua noâ— meritis meis 7 Hac fiducia fretus 8 tuae ecclesiae Sigon de regno Italiae lib. 9. which better agreeth with the rest then as Platina hath it suae 9 in ecclesiam tuam i 〈◊〉 1.8 k Iohan. de Turâ—ecremat in Suâ—â—m de Ecclesiâ— lib. 2. cap. 12. l Gul. Durand in Rationali diuinâ—r officior lib 2. cap. 1. m Ioh. 1.16 n Heb. 6.20 o Ephe 4.16 p 2. Thess. 2.4 q The othe of the 〈…〉 li. 5. c. 5. * Chap. 10. Diuis 1. Exod. 22.28 Ioh. 10.35 s Exod. 20.3 Deut. 13 2. t Act. 14.11 u Apologia ecclesiae Angl. Confess Heluâ—â— cap. 17. x Ephes. 1.22 4.15 5.23 Coloss. 1.18 2.19 and so the Church his bodie y Nehem. 11.16 z 2. Chr. 31.10 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a In apolog 2. b In Registr li. 4. epist 38. Stapleton in dedicat prin cipiorum fid doctrin Gregor deâ—imo tertio Pon. Opt. Max. 1. Cor. 11.3 Esay 7.8 1. Sam. 15.17 Exod. 6.13 1. Kin. 21.9 Esay 2.2 Exod. 30.23 Num. 25.4 2. Sam. 23. ver â— 13. 18. * Stapleâ— princip doct lib. 6. in praefat And herin the Rheâ—ish annotations on the new Testament Mat. 16 â—9 folow D. â—â—â—apleton as also in the handling of Scriptures and Fathers for this whole matter of the Popes supremacie commonlie they 〈◊〉 The first Diuision * Staplet priâ—cip doctrin lib 6. cap. 2. n Mat. 16.18 o Sanders rocke of the church Bristow Meâ—tin 47. As in their Annotations on Mat. 16.18 they say it should be by Christs words speaking in the Syriake tongue yea and by the meaning of the greeke wordes too Though they keepe the name of rocke in their text because of the latin p Ioh. 1.42 * Staplet princ doctr li. 6. ca. 3. q In dictionar Syro-chald Regior Biblior Tom. 6. r Session 4. s S. Andr. Mas. coÌ„mentar in Iosu. cap. 14. ver 15. * Sciens t Ioh. Molanus Louaniensis a Multúm elucidat veterem vulgatam editionem u Gen. 8.21 1 Lat. in malum prona 2 Hebr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 x Censura Colon in Dialog 2. * Longé consultius q In Lexie graâ— ad Sacri appar instruct Reg. Bâ—â—blior Tom. 6. r Thesaur lingâ— Graecâ—e congâ—â—t ab Henr. Stephan Hen. Stephan de similit ling. Graecae Gallicae lib. 3. * Pierre t In Dictionar Syro-chaldaico u Elias Leuita in Thisbi * As Elias writeth it He meaneth pietra which word in the Italian keepeth that meaning of petra from which the name of Peter grew x Aber. Ezra in Daniel cap. 11. vers 37. y 1. De visib Monarchia eccles l. 6. c. 7. z lib. 6. ca. 2. a As him selfe termeth it in his letters written to Vllick Burck an Irish Gentleman b In his booke entitled the rocke of the church c In the chap. 1. d Princ. doctrin lib. 6. cap. 5. e Ioh. 1 4â— f Maâ— 22 1â— g 1. Pet. 2.5 h Esai 2â— â—â— 1 Eph. 2.14 * 1. Cor. 3.11 h Esai 28.16 i Reu. 21.14 k 1. Pet. 2.5 l 1. Cor. 12.26 m Eph. 2. ver 20. n ver 21. o ver 22. p In sophismatis Turrian loc 2. q The treatise of the church chap. 7. r Augustin de verb. Dom. Seâ—m 1â— t In testimon â—a vet Testam de Trinitat contr Iud. u De Trinitat lib 4. x In Matth. homâ—l 55. y In epist. ad Ephe. cap. 2. z De Trinitat lib. 2. 6. * That is to say an â—â—ersight such as happeneth to men a Staplet princip doctr lib. 6. cap. 3. b Retractation lib. 1. cap. 21. c Reuerendi patris Roberti Bellarmini praelectiones Romae ann Dom. 1577. In praefat Controuers de summo Pontisice d Esai 28. â—â— e 1. Pet. 2. ver 6. 8. * Expositio Augustini habet â—ententiam veram Staplet â— 6. c. 3. f Numb 28. â— g Iere. 7.22 h Mat. 16.16 i 1. Cor. 1.12 1 As Gregorie Nyssen doth and Hilarie 2 As Ambrose Chrysostom Cyrill k Sander de â—isib monar Eccles. lib. 7. Torren confesâ— August lib. 1. cap. 9. tit 2. l Hilar. in Maâ—thaeum can 16. Felix ecclesiae fundamentum m De Trinit lâ—b 6. Christum Dei
Motiu 31. o Demaund 41. p Motiu 31. q Demaund 41. Motiu 31. * Psalm 120.4 r Demaund 38. s Demaund 51. t Motiu 39. u Demaund 4â— Terent in Eunucho y Demaund 34. z A sclaunderous libell scatered in Oxford 1577. a Virgil. Acnâ—id lib. 6. b Apoll odor de orig Deor. lib. 1. c Ioh. 16.13 d Dâ—maund 34. e M. Nowel in his confut of Dormans disproofe chapt 3â— e M. Nowel in his confut of Dormans disproofe chapt 3â— f D. Fulke in the preface of his answere to Heskins Sanders Rastell g Ier. 28.11 h Prou. 26. ver 4. î vers 5. k 1. Sam. 17.10 l 2. Cor. 10.4 m D. Fulkes Retentiue against Bristowes Motiues n Demaund 34. Matt. 2â— 7 p In the title of his booke of Demaundes q Princ. fid doctr lib. 1. cap. 4. r cap. 5. * So he calleth vs of Iohn Husse a godly man and holy martyr who taught as we do concerning the Church s Moâ—iu 3â— The â—tatâ— and argument of the Conclusions The first conclusion t In catechismo Concil Trid. u Ibid. in exord catechism x Matt. 15.2 Mark 7.5 y Hieron comment in Aggae cap. 1. z Iren. cont haeres lib. 3. c. 2. a Maximé de Tatiani radice crescentibus Hieron in Agg. cap. 1. b Brist Demaund 29. Motiu 9. c Cic. in Anton. Philip. 2. d Deu. 23.2 The second conclusion e 24. q. 1. c. a recta in glossa Catechis Trid. in expos Symb. f In Thalia g Demaund 1. 34. The third conclusioÌ„ h 2. Thess. 2.4 i Ecclesiaâ—â— hierar lib. 1. 4 k Concil Constant Sess. 13. Hoc non obstance l Epist. 2. 3. ad Bohemos m Lib. de express Dei verbo n Demaund 24. o In confess Petricou cap. 15. 16. 19. p Epist. 3. ad Bohemos q Ecclesiast hiâ—rarch lib. 1. cap. 2. r Defens fid Trident. lib. 3. * Reu. 17.4 The fourth conclusion s Act. 26.29 t In defensore pacis part 2. cap. 2. * Aboue two hundred yeres agoe u Francise Turrian de eccles ord min. lib. 1. cap. 2. x Catechism Conc. Trident. in exposit Symb. y Demaund 44. 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Credo ecclesiam 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Credo ecclesiae z Luk. 18.27 The fifth conclusion a In Bucoliaâ—t b Demaund 44. c â—atechism Concil Trident in exposit Symb. d In Symbolo Concil Constantinopolit e Bristow Motiu 12. f Catechism Trid. in expo Symb. g Andrad defens fid Trid lib. 2. Petr. a Soto contr confes Wirtenb cap. de ecclesia h Defens fid Trident. lib. 2. i De viâ—ib Monar eccle lib. 7. k Aduers haeres lib. 3. cap. 3. Sander argumento 20 l. Lib. 1. epist 3. aut epist. 55 edit Pam. Sander argum 42. m Ps. 48. ver 1. n ver 9. o Esay 1 21. p 1. King 8.20 q Mat. 21.13 r Esai 1.21 s Matt. 21.13 t Rom. 1.8 m Rom. 11.20 n Petâ— a Soto contr confess Wirtenb cap. de concilijs o Alfons a Castr. aduers. haeres lib. 1. cap. 8. p Confess Petric cap. 24. contr Brent lib. 2. q Disputatio num aduersus Lutheranos Tom. 6. de authorit potest vniuer eccles cap. 5. r Ibid. cap. 1. s Iren. lib. 3. cap. 3. Sander argument 4. t Dionys. epist. ad Soter apud Euseb. l. 4 c. 22. Sander arg 15. u Episcop Orient in ep ad Iul. apud Sozomen lib. 3. cap. 7. Sander arg 109. x Ignat. in inscri ep ad Rom. Sander arg 5. y Platin. Onuphr Sabellic Guicciardin Theodoric a Niem Abbas Vrsperg c. z A famous Fryer ad Diuinâ— Baptista Mantuanus a Ecloga 9. b Ecloga 5. c De calamitat tempor lib. 3. d Syluar lib. 1. Ode vlâ— The sixth conclusioÌ„ e Gal. 6.2 f Act. 19.9 g 1. Tim. 6.5 1. Cor. 6.17 h Demaund 1. i Rom. 1.7 1 Optimus 2 Maximus as the Papists call him k 1. Peâ— 5.3 l Andrad defen fid â—rid lib. 1. m Gent. â—eruet de reparand eccles dâ—sciplin n Ephes. 4.3 o Cicer. Philip 13. p Ephes. 4.13 q Philip. 4.2 r Cicer. Philipp 12. s Eurip. Iphigâ— in Aulâ—d * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t 1. Ioh. 4.1 u Act. 17.11 x Hieron in dialog aduersus Lucif c. 9. y Rom. 2.29 z Eph. 4.4 a Ier. 32.39 b Phil. 4.8 c 1. Sam. 19. ver 20. d ver 2â— a Cic. pro Deiâ—tar b Esay 6. â— Liu. lib. 21. The first conclusioÌ„ d Rom. 8. ver 16. c ver 17. f Reu. 19.7 g Eph. 5.23 h Reu. 22.2 i Mat. 16 1â— k 2. Tim. 3.26 l Eph. 2. ver 19 m ver 20. n Deut. 4.2 12.32 o Châ—eâ—ly the 19. 119. Psal. p Esai 1.22 8.20 q Ier. 19.5 r Mal. 4 4. s Iohn 20.31 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t Ioh. â—0 30 1â— 25 u 2. Tim. 3.16 x Gal. 5. â— y 2. Tim. 3.15 z 1. Tim. 6 1â— 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Defens â—id Tilden lib. 3. b De doctr Chriâ—tian lib. 2. c. 9. c In 2. ad Thessalon hom 3. d Contr. Hermogen e Contr. Heluidium f In euang Ioh. lib. 12. cap. 68. g Serm. de Fid. h De sanc spir cap 29. i Contr. â—aer lib. 2. tom 1. haer 61. k 1. Cor 11.2 l 1. Cor. 15.1 m 2. Thes. 2.15 n 1. Cor. â— 23 〈◊〉 2.13 7.17 11.23 14.40 and so foorth in the rest of the epistle o 1. Cor. 11 2â— p Luk. 22.19 q 1. Cor. 15.3 r Act. 17.2 * As before Ioh. 20.31 s Amb. in 2. ad Thes. cap. 2. t 2. Thess. 2. ver 14. u ver 15. x Aduers haer lib. 3. c. 2. y Concil â—rid Sess. 4. Decr. 1. The second conclusion Augâ—st de haeres ad Quodâ—ultd cap. 33. a Catechis Concil Trid. in 〈…〉 b Athenaeus Dipnosophist lib. 12. c Albert. Pigh in eccles hierar Bristow in his Motiues and Demaunds * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 d Mat. 20.16 In Cantic â—ermon 33. f Rom. 3.4 g Mark 10.18 h Cant. 4.7 i Eph. 5.2.7 k Matt. 26.56 l Act. 1.6 m Gal. 2.14 n Reu. 19.10 22.8 o Act. 11.2 p Mat. 16.18 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Apostle mentioneth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he preuailâ—th against â— Cor. 10.4 q Liu. lib. 22. r Luk. 15.4 s Ioh. 10.28 t Luk. 15.12 u Luk. 22.32 x Psal. 12â— 1 y Cant. 1. ver 4 z ver 14. a ver 7. b Bernard in Cant. serm 38. * Non pulâ—ra omâ—imodo c Ioh. 14.16 15.26 16 1â— d Ioh. 1 1â— e Ioh. â— 34 * Gen. 5.3 f Psal. 57 4. g Ioh 3.5 h Rom. 7.22 Gal. 5.17 i 1. Cor. 13.12 k 2. Cor. 12.9 l Ier. 17.14 m Phil. 3.12 n Iam. 3.2 o Ioh. 13.10 p Ioh. 13.16 q Act. 20.
vea 27. r ver 20. s 1. Tim. 1.17 t Rom. 11.20 u Gal. 6.2 x Phil. 2.12 y 2. Cor. 12.9 z Mark 9.24 a Luk. 7.47 b Luk. 17.5 c Luk. 11.4 d De perfect obed leg Dei e Contr. Bâ—â—ntium lib. 3. f Matt. 26.15 g 1. Ioh. 2 1â— h Gal. 1.6 i 1. Cor. 11.18 15.12 k Reu. 2. ver 15. l ver 20. m Reu. 3. ver 2. n ver 15. o Reu. 1.12 p 1. Tim. 3.15 p 1. Tim. 3.15 q Reu. 2. ver 4. r â—â—r 5. * Reu. â— â—â— s Matt. 18 1â— t Ioh. 10. ver 12. u ver 10. x Bernard in â—antic Ser. 33. y 1. Cor. 3.10 z 2. Pet. 2.1 a Euseb. hist. eccles l. 7. c. 22. b Theodoret. hist. eccles lib. 1. cap. 2. c Socrat. hist. ecc l. 7. c. 29. 32. d Theodoret. hist. eccles lib. 2. cap. 16. e Hieron dial cont Lucifer cap. 7. in Chronico Athanas epist. de synod Arim. Seleuciae f In epist. ad Procopium g Can. 59. h Constantinop in Trul. can 2. Concil Nicen. secund can 1. i Can. 47. k Session 4. l Can. 6. m Capit. 5. apud Innocenâ— tert n Sess. 4. 5. o Aene. Silu. de Concil Basil Concil Flor. Ferrar. in CoÌ„cilij indict p Bristow Motiu 3 and Demaund 8. The third conclusioÌ„ q 2. Tim. 3.16 r Tit. 1.2 s Deâ—ens â—id â—riâ— lib. 1. t Registr lib. 2. â—nd 11. ep 10. 1 Temerâ— nulla ratione 2 Non afflatuâ— sancti spiritus 3 Rumoris auram inanem 4 Hominum opiniones sallaces u Concil 6. â—â—â—nor Constanâ—inop action 13. x Ecclesiast hiâ—â—rar l. â— c. â— * Non vt praeessent sed vt subcisent y Histor. natur lib. 36. cap. 10. z Mal. 4.2 a Mat. 18.17 b De bapt conc Donatist lib. 2. c. 3. a 〈◊〉 1. â— b Matt. 7.19 c 2. Pet. 2.1 d 2. King 18. â—â— e Leo. epist. 8â— ad episcopos Palaest 〈◊〉 Rheâ—or 1. Demosthen contr Aâ—â—stocrat Lucian in Anachar g Acâ— 1â— 35 The fourth Conclusion h Eph. 1 4â— i 1. Pet. 2. â— k Matt. 2â— 34 l Hebr. 12.22 Reu. 2â— 2 m Psal. 87.1 n Ioh. 10 1â— o Eph. â— 19 p Reu. 20 1â— q Gen. 17.7 Leu. â—6 12 â—er 3â— â—3 â—eb 8.10 r Heb. 12.23 s Ephes. 1 5. t Ephes. 4.16 5.23 u Esai 1.4 x Maâ—t 7.23 y Zach. 14.21 z Reu. 21. â—7 a Rom. 8.30 b Eph. 5.26 * Reu. â—9 8 c Which are named proselâ—tes Mat. 23. â—5 Act â— 10 13 4â— d Esai 5â— 2 e Mat. 28.19 f Act. 1.8 g Act. 10.28 11.2 h Galatin de aâ—â—an cathol ver lib. 9. c. 12. i Eph. 2. ver 14. k ver â—0 l Psal. 87.4 m Reu. 5.9 n Concil Constant Sess. 15. o Artic. â— p Artic. 6. q Strom. lib. 7. r In epist ad Eph. cap. 3. s Moral in Iob. lib. 28. cap. 9. t In Cantic sermon 78. u Throughout all his bookes De ciuitate Dei x De rudib catechiz cap. 20. y De bapt cont Donatist l. 5. cap. 27. z Fran. Duar. de â—acr eccles minist l. 5. c. 11. a Extra c. vnam sanctam De maioritat obedient b Catechism Concil Trid. in exposit symb c Eph. 4. â—6 d Rom. 4.7 e Matt. 5.8 f Mat. 7. ver 24. g ver 25. h Ioh. 11. ver 49 i ver 50. The fifth coÌ„clusion k 1. Pet. 1.23 l 1. Cor. 3.2 m Heb. 5.14 n Eph. 6. ver 17. o ver 16. * Psal. 50. â—5 p Reu. 12. ver 9. * That is to say an aduersary q ver 13. 17. r Mat. 13.25 s Esai 1.21 Eze. 16.15 Hof 2.2 and the rest in mâ—ny places t Gal. 1. ver â— u ver 6. 7 x 2. Cor. 11. â— y Reu. â— â—5 z Reu. 3. ver 13. a ver 1. b ver 2. c ver 4. d Matt. 3 1â— e Matt. 13.27 f 2. Tim. 2.20 g Galen de sanit tuend lib 1. cap. 2. h Appian de bell Parth. i De re militar l 3. c. 2. k 1. Pet. 1 23. â— 2.2 l Wier de praestâ—g Daemâ—n l. 3. c. 17. m Amos 8.11 n 1. Tim. 6. ver 3. o ver 4. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p â— Tim. 2.17 q Mat. 21. â—â— r Reu. 2.5 1 As Bristow Moriu 12. with this speciall note in the mâ—rgent of his booke Note the Roman church the catholike church s Cod. de sâ—mma Trin. â—ide cathol t Epist. 55. ad Coâ—nelium 2 〈…〉 by â—he epistle of Cardinall Cusanus writen to the Bohemians Cochlaeus hiâ—â—or Mussitar lib. 11. u De saâ—it tuâ—nd lib. 1. cap. â— 5. x Appendix Apolog. eccles Angl. y Apologia â—ccles Angliâ—aâ— z Ioh. 21.16 a Matt. 28.20 b 1. Pet. 1.23 c 1. Pet. 2.2 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 d Matt. 23. â— e Matt. 16.6 f Concil Trident Sess. 4. g 3. â—sdr 4.43 5.73 Ecclesiastic 46.23 48.10 2. Mac. cap. 1.19 2.1 h 4. Esdr. 10.20 2. Maccab. 2.4 1. Maccab. 1.16 9.5 touching Antiochus Seâ— the Annotations of Franciscus Iunius on the Apocrypha i The Church of the Iewes Hier. praefat in Iudith caet lib. apocr Iosephus câ—nti Apion l. 1. Andrad desens fid Trid. lib. 3. k â—oncil Lâ—â—d can 59. Athana in synopsi sacraâ— scripturae Nazianzen in carminib Epiphan lib. de mensur ponder Hieron praesat in libr. Solâ—m l Concil Trid. Sess. 4. m 2. Tim. 3.16 See the first Conclusion n Baâ—il de spir sancâ— cap. 27. Epiph. haer 7â— o Bristow Moâ— 9. 46. Andr. â—â—fen fid Trid. lib. 2. p Concil Trid. Sess. 4. q Comment in prophet nou â—estam r August de doctr Christian. l. 16.2 cap. 15. Hilar. in Psal. 2. the rest who preferre the translation of the Seuentie inâ—erpreters See August de ciuit Dei lib. 18. cap. 43. s In epist. ad Clement sept t Annot. prior in Pandect Defens fid Trid. lib. 4. x Tom. 8. Bibli Reg. in praefat y Concil Trid. â—ess 4. z Cusan ad Bohemos ep 2. a Concil Trid. â—ess 6. cap. 10. b Matt. 15.9 c 1. Sam. 15.23 d Col. 2.23 e Concil Tâ—id Sess. 25. f Greg. registr lib. 9. ep 9. * By the word idiotae which Gregory vseth in this point he meaneth the vnlearned that can not reade things writen Of whom he saith that painting hath the same vse for idiotes which writing hath for them that reade g Iere. 10.8 h Hab. 2.18 i Col. 3.16 k Deu. 6.9 11.18 31.11 Luke 11.28 Reu. 1.3 l Nehem. 8 9. Luk. 4.17 Act. 8.30 13.15 17.11 m All the ancient Churches as appeereth by Ierom Epist. ad Laetam de institut filiae ad Demetr de virgin ad Fur. de viduit seruand By Chrysost. In Ioan. homil 16. Prooemio in epist. ad Rom. In epist. ad Col. hom 9. and the rest of the Fathers n Dialog de