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A16910 Demands to be propounded of Catholickes to the heretikes by Richard Bristow ... ; taken partly out of his late English booke of Motiues to the Catholicke faith, partely out of his printed Latin booke of the same matter. Bristow, Richard, 1538-1581. 1623 (1623) STC 3801.5; ESTC S1528 47,404 192

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Seeing you acknowledge in your Confession of faith that the Sacraments ought only to be ministred by such as are called therunto by ordinary vocation I demand if your vocation vnto the ministrie be like vnto the calling of all others who haue gone before you in the Church of Christ since the time of the Apostles whom both yee and wee repute and hould to haue been Iawfull pastors and teachers of his flock as S. Cyprian S. Augustin S. Ambrose and diuers others wishing you to shewin al points the conformitie of your vocation with that of theirs 5. who their Doctors Seing after the discours of the election of your Ministers Elders and Deacons yee acknowledge that the Scriptures make mention of a fourth kind of Ministers lest vnto the Church of Christ which also are very necessarie profitable Ephes 4. 1. Cor. 12. and are called by the name of teachers and doctors whose office it is to teach and instruct the faithfull in sound doctrine prouiding with all diligence that the puritie of the gospel be not corrupted ether throgh ignorance or false opinion I pray you to shew at what time any Doctors of such calling haue bene in your Church before Iohn Caluin because the places of Scripture noted by you teach and declare that God hath appointed such meanes in his church that it should neuer be left desolate nor yet his Doctrine to decay for wāt of Doctors other teachers 6. Their admission of Tinkers c. And seeing yee confes in the same place that men cannot profit so well in the knowledge aforesayd vnles they be first instructed in the learned tongues humane sciences for now God doth not commonly worke by miracles and that therefore it is necessary that seed be sowen for the tyme to come to the end that the Church be not left barren wast vnto posterity and also that for this effect schooles be erected wherin youth may be trayned vp in the knowledge and feare of God I demand why yee admitted at the first entry of your doctrine into Scotland and yet doe Taylors Skinars and other Artificers who were neuer instructed but in their owne craft and occupation which they left and abiured and out of their owne heades without any further calling vnto the ministery began to teach the people hauing for all their learning and forme of preaching some English books only which yet themselues very hardly vnderstood 7. If the only written word be Iudge Seeing that among other heads of your alleadged fayth this is one principall that nothing is to be beleeued Cal. l. 4. Inst c. 8. sect 8. but what is found in the written word I demaund what testimony yee haue in the same for assurance of your faith in this point And whether the fayth of the Apostles was groūded on the written word or not 8. S. Thomas Ghospell Where is it written that there is only foure Ghospels and that the Ghospell of S. Matthew with the other three ought to be recea ued and not the Ghospell of S. Thomas Or what authority hath moued you to receaue som books or chapters for canonical scriptur and to refuse or reiect others Or if any man deny any booke of the new Testament as Martin Luther doth the epistle of S. Iames what argumentes haue yee from the Scripture to condemne him Praef. in nou Test 9. VVhy Iewes credited Seeing yee giue so great authority to the Synagogue of the Iewes that according to their canon yee admit reiect sundry bookes of holy Scripture why giue yee not the like authority to the Christian church which hath gone before you in receauing such bookes as are approued by her for canonicall Scripture And if the only cause which moues you to reiect such bookes be because they were not approued by the Synagogue of the Iewes why by the same reason reiect yee not Christ himselfe seeing that Synagogue would not admit him for their Messias 10. Churches authoritie If it be the office of the church to discerne betwixt canonicall Scripture and not canoniall as a De capt Bab Luther b In prologo cont Pet. à Soto Brentius and other of your owne masters doe confes why should not the same church be heard of you in giuing her interpretation vpon any doubtfull place therof called in question Or why call yee more in dout the interpretation of the Scripture giuen by the Church then the very bookes themselues Or why prefer yee the priuat opiniō of Iohn Caluin and your selues before the vniuersall and vniforme consent of all Christian people before you 11. Citing only the written word Why esteeme yee Calu. l. 4 Inst c. 8. num 13. that yee haue an infallible marke of the true religion because yee cite only the written word seeing this hath beene common to all heretiques from the beginning Or what haue you more to say for your felues then they had for themselues in this point 12. If Scripture be easy If the Scripture be so easy as yee teach it to be c Luth de ser arbit what hath moued your owne writers to make so many cōmentaryes therupon Or what is the cause that ther is so great controuersy in religiō as we see at this day Yea euē vpon the expresse wordes of the last Testament of our Lord which according to the nature of a Testament should be most cleere 13. Conference of places If the priuate iudgment of euery one conferring Scripture with Scripture be a certaine and infallible rule of right interpretatiō as yee say how is it that so many grosse contradictions are foūd in your writinges gayn-saying not only one another but your selues also as is euident in your owne bookes 14. No meanes to be resolued Seeing that the Lutherans the Zuinglians and the Caluinists besides an infinite number of other sectes doe euery one alleage the written word for cōfirmation of their contrarie opinions how shall it be knowen to any man that would resolue himselfe in matters of religion which of them haue the true word sith it is the true vnderstanding that maketh the word and not the outward sounding of the voice as Christ himselfe saith who obiected to the Saduces Mat. 12. that they mistooke the Scriptures because they vnderstood not the meaning of them 15. Traditions Why deny yee any credit to be giuen to Traditions contrary to a Cal. l. 4. iust c. 10. the expres commandment of the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians in this maner b 2. Thes 2. Stand and keepe the Traditions which yee haue receiued whither by word or by our epistle And also contrary to the doctrne of all the auncient doctors of the church Or how haue yee the Scripture it selfe but by Tradition And seeing yee will giue no place vnto Traditions what assurance haue yee that since the Natiuitie of Christ there is only 1623. yeares Or whither it be lawfull for Christian men to call this point in
DEMANDS TO BE PROPOVNDED OF CATHOLICKES TO THE HERETIKES By Richard Bristow Priest and Doctour of Diuinity Taken partly out of his late English booke of Motiues to the Catholicke faith partely out of his printed Latin booke of the same matter For Iohn Heigham With permission Anno 1623. Mat. 16. Aedificabo Ecclesiam meam portae inferi non praeualebunt aduersus eam I will build vp my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it Marc. 1.3 Caelum terra transibunt verba autem mea non transibunt Heauen and earth shall passe but my wordes shall not passe Hic libellus est Catholicus elegans apprimè vtilis praelo dignus Ita testor Gulielmus Alanus S. Theol. Duaci Professor Regius DEMANDES TO BE Propounded vnto all Heretikes VNDERSTANDING gentle Reader that many are desirous of my late booke of Motiues to the Catholike faith who notwithstandinge cannot come therby partly because there were but few printed partely because a great parte of those few fell into the Heretickes handes God so ordaining it in testimonium ills for a witnesse vnto them and not minded to repaire the Printe although of som desired I thought good for some satisfaction of the saide and for further propagatiō of the truth to the saluation of my deare deceaued countrimen to set out this litle Pāflet which albeit to some may for the quantity seme but a trifle yet whosoeuer will voutsafe to peruse it shal finde it I trust full of most iust weightie considerations to beleeue the Catholikes of this time also and not the Heretikes The maner of it I haue conceaued by way of Demaundes to be made by Catholickes vnto Heretickes to confound therwith the obstinate and to conuert thē that be more tractable And although in these Demandes I wil be very briefe as only to put the learned in minde of that they haue read or may read and to shew them how to vse it to profite both thē selues others yet shall I touch the matter in euery one of them by the grace of God sufficiently for all sortes But if any man desire a larger declaration of them he shall in my late booke of Motiues for most of thē find enough and for all of them much more in my latine book which work thē only promised he hath since most learnedly performed of the same mater and that somewhat of an other sort in another order thē I did before in English which by these Demaundes may partly be coniectured Beseeching moste hūbly the deceuers if they shall clearely see in their consciences that they can not replie to these Demaundes that then they will for Christes sake vouchsafe to be good to their owne soules and to spare the seely people The 1. Demaund Touching the disputation made at Carthage FIRST then in the name of God let it be demanded of the sayd deceauers or of any other Heretike and especially of them that will seeme to be learned whether they haue not read or heard of Collatio Carthaginensis The conference or disputation made a Carthage in Africke almost twelue hundred years ago betweene Saint Augustine on the one side and his fellowes the other Catholike Bishopes of that Countrey and on the other side the Bishoppes of the Donatistes who were Heretiks likewise of that Countrey Which disputation being then presently taken word for word of diuers swift Notaries was afterwarde more breifly written by S. Augustine himselfe and is at this day to be seene in the seuenth Tome of his workes in his booke called Breuiculus Callationis An abridgment of the Conference If they knowe of the said conference let them then be asked whether the Question there betweene the Catholickes and the Donatists were not the same that is now betweene the Catholicks and the Protestants with al other Heretickes of this time to wit VVhich of vs haue the Church of Christ wherher we or they And because these Hereticks call earnestly for plaine Scripture and make as though they would yeeld most gladly therunto Let them say whether those Catholickes did not bring for their church very many most plaine testimonies of holy Scripture as is more orderly to be seene there in another booke of S. Augustins named De vnitate Ecclesiae Of the Churches vnitie Whether S. Augustine I say and those other Catholickes did not there most manifestly and most mightily out of the Scriptures proue a visible Church begining visibly at Hierusalem lasting visibly not only vnto their time but also vnto our time and euen so continually to the worlds end And whether such a Church make not as much against the Protestantes and all other Heretickes as against the Donatistes and as much for vs that be Catholickes now and for such as shall be Catholickes at any time to the worldes end as for S. Augustine and the other Catholikes of that time because neither the Protestantes nor no other Heretickes no more thā the Donatists haue so lasted or euer shal so laste cōtinually nor no other company of Christians but onely ours Finally if they will say that S. Augustine and his felowes there did not nor coulde not out of the Scripture proue sufficiently such a Church let them be demaunded whether they dare take parte with the Donatistes against those Catholickes and whether they will or be able to answere their Scriptures for and in behalfe of those Heretiks At leastwise because they talke so much of scripture and of onely Scripture whether they be able all the packe of thē as S. Augustine also there requireth of the Donatistes to alleage for their owne Church or Churches so much as one plaine text of Scripture as he there alleageth for our church in maner aforesaide very many and very plaine shewing also there that it cannot erre whether they can bring vs I say in so weightie a matter as wherupon dependeth al our cōtrouersie any one plaine saying of holy Scripture to proue that Christes Church beginning visibly at Hierusalem shoulde so continue but a time and then afterward should vtterly either perish or vanish away that many hundred yeeres after one Luther in Saxonie or one Caluine at Geneua or any other in any other countrey should bring it to life or to light againe The 2. Demaund Building of the Church VVHEREAS Christ his Christians haue besides Schismatikes and Heretikes two other kindes of enemies to wit Panimes Iewes wheras the aunciēt writers haue made many goodly books against those enemies either to confound them or to perswade them that Christ is God as it was then in the first beginning of Christians very necessary for them so to doe Let the learned Protestantes be likewise demaunded whether those christian writers in those books haue not made amongst others this argument to proue that christ is God namely Saint Chrysostome both against the Panimes in his booke named Contra Gentiles demonstratio quod Christus sit Deus A plaine demonstracion against the Gentiles