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A42786 Remarks on remarks, or, The Rector of Bury's sermon vindicated his charge exhibited against the dissenters for endeavouring to corrupt the word of God justified and farther confirmed : also the absurdities and notorious falsities of Mr. Owen and other pretended ministers of the Gospel are detected and expos'd / by Thomas Gipps, Rector of Bury. Gipps, Thomas, d. 1709. 1698 (1698) Wing G780; ESTC R34916 57,995 68

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Libeller thro' every Paragraph or Page It shall suffice to observe that he has impeach'd us expresly as the Persons who have been the Cause of that Deluge of Atheism Socinianism Popery Lewdness of Manners ay and of the Schisms too which have crept into the Church and Kingdom and this he has done without any other Occasion or Provocation pretended than the Bishop of Salisbury's supposing the Dissenters Separatists in his Letter to his own Clergy or I may rather say than the too gentle Expressions which he in vain bestow'd upon these Schismatics the Foxes and the Firebrands of this Poor Church and Nation as he might more truly have styl'd ' em A little after the ' foresaid Libel was come to my Hand I was presented with another call'd a Sermon preach'd at the Opening of a Separate Chappel by Mr. Baldwin This Gentleman being greatly pleased I was told as much by one that heard him say it with the Note-makers admirable Performance and declaring that there were a great many biting Truths in it that is that we of the Church of England are all of us Promoters of Atheism Socinianism Popery Schism and decay of Morals in this Nation suffer'd his said Sermon to peep abroad thinking doubtless with himself to reap some of the Honour due to that mighty Undertaking of trampling underfoot the establish'd Church of Engl●nd I have already in another way delivered my Mind of this Sermon of Mr. Baldwins and perhaps shall hereafter let the World see how weak and absurd it was Here only let it be observ'd that he took upon him to revile the Church of England with Arminianism and with Popery and now and then according to his weak Power for he had a willing Mind to give us an impertinent Wipe on some other Acts How justly it makes no matter with such Men it sufficeth them that they have some pretence to reproach us and Confidence enough to load us with Calumnies Semper ego Auditor tantum Nunquamne reponam Vexatus toties Rauoi Theseide Cod●i Do these Men in good earnest think after they have first brav'd us and openly provok'd us with Lies and Slanders to cast us into a sleep with a dose of Opium to stop our Mouths with Maxims which they are not at all careful themselves to observe I mean those of having sincere Affection to the Truth Deference towards Superiours and Charity towards Neighbours especially in a Conjuncture whenour Civil as well our Religious Interests do so loudly call for the Exerciss of ' em To say nothing here of the Want of Charity of Truth and Sincerity in those Notes has the Author paid due Deference to his Superiours If he has why did he not own his Libel by affixing his Name to it At least why not the Name of the Printer That we might have gratify'd our Curiosity with the knowledg of so celebrated a Writer The matter is Plain The Note-maker has paid such Deference to his Superiour my Lord Bishop of Salisbury as happily would have cost him dear if he had not been Incognito But this is not the first time that the Rulers of the People have been evil spoken of by Authors who walk the Streets in Masquerade and wound their Honour behind the back It will perhaps be ask'd what 's this to the Minister at Oswestry If an unknown Person at Manchester has writ a tart Book against the Episcopal Party And I also ask what was it to the Minister at Oswestry if the Rector of Bury preach'd a Sermon in Vindication of the Church of England against the Lancashire Dissenters But there is no great Mystery in this The Rector had in another Treatise discover'd the Ministers design'd Corruption of St. Chrysostom a piece of pious Fraud which ought never to be forgotten and therefore the Minister with the help of his Friends at Manchester was to give his Adversary a Diversion on some other Subject and to patch up his broken Credit with Remarks on the Rectors Sermon I said with the help of his Friends at Manchester but I rather believe the Note-maker was Principal in the Remarks Mr. Owen is the pretended Author of 'em and as I suppose sign'd 'em Yet any one who reads the Minister at Oswestry his other Writings may easily discern such a different Air in the Remarks from his other undoubted Performances as will force him to conclude that Mr. Omen is but the reputed Father of this spurious Off-spring Or what if one should guess the Remarks to be the Work of a Club of Ministers of which he at Manchester was President pro tempore This is certain that the Remarks in their way to London took a Tour to Manchester there we heard of 'em long before their Publication and had some Account of 'em also There they receiv'd their last finishing Strokes 't is thought and there they were drest up with all the gaudy Feathers and Embellishments which the Wit of the Party could furnish them with So that if one ask'd the Remarker his Name and he would please to return a fair Answer he must say my Name is Logion for me are many But the great Question is who is this Note-maker who from behind the Curtain like the Heathen Priests delivers his Oracles What is his Name Unto whom does he belong 'T is no difficult Matter to resolve this Knot That he is a Dissenter no one can doubt that he is one of that Party in Manchester was once fairly acknowledg'd unto me by another who is in their Interest and of no small Reputation among them who also added that the Notes were but a Preface to another Work which the Author intended to set forth I suppose to the Remarks So then this Solomon's Porch is as big as his Temple his Preface as large as his Book and the mighty Work we were put in hopes of is dwindled into a few sorry Remarks upon the Rectors Sermon But we may make yet a clearer Discovery of the Note-maker if we will but consider that a Dissenter within the Parish of Machester frankly own'd that a certain Minister of the Gospel at Manchester wrote those Notes We need no more Evidence Only it deserves to be observ'd that the Defence of c. a Book since Publish'd by the Minister at Oswestry was sent down not to the Author at Oswestry but to the Minister at Manchester to be Revis'd and Corrected as if Mr. Owen were not able to rectify the Mistakes committed in the Printing his own Book This manifests a Confederacy and Correspondence between 'em and from hence it may be fairly gather'd that the Notes and the Remarks have been done in a great Measure by the same Hand at Manchester But especially when we see 'em so like one another both in their Features and their Drapery we cannot suffer our selves any longer to doubt but the Remarks were hammer'd out at the same Forge or at least polish'd by the same skilful Hand as were the Notes But
Slur upon the Word of God and question'd its Divine Authority But Dr. L. further adds pag. 542. That it was one Fundamental of the Sadducees Faith That no Article in Religion ought to be admitted which cannot be made out plainly from the Five Books of Moses From hence it appears that they did not believe the other Books of Scripture to be of equal Authority with the Pentateuch nor sufficient of themselves to establish any Doctrine of Faith Now whereas the Doctor argues and proves out of his Rabbins that the Sadducees and Samaritans us'd and read and believ'd all the other Books as well as the Pentateuch and that they were not ignorant of 'em nor accounted 'em Tales and of no value and again that those Books were known to 'em and of Authority among ' em All this I readily grant for they doubtless highly esteem'd the rest of the Scripture and ●in●d it in confirmation of any Doctrine reveal'd by Moses as we Christians do the Primitive Fathers tho' uninspir'd I have been longer on this trivial Subject than I intended Only let the Reader mark how the two Ministers are here Advocating for the Samaritans and Sadducees as they before undertook the Protection of the other Jews In good time the Dissenters will comprehend these also Some of the Quakers and Anabaptists the Modern Sadducees and Mahometans I mean the Socinians and almost all the Nation of Schismaticks and Hereticks are in their Interests already The Samaritans and Jews are happily coming into the Confederacy 7. The Rector laid down this Observation also We diminish from the Word when we lay it aside as not necessary or not the Supreme Rule of Faith Hereunto Mr. O. answers This implys as if there were some other at least subordinate Rules of Faith We know no other Rule of Divine Faith but the Holy Scripture The Man thinks verily he has caught me now But I am not afraid to say there are many subordinate Rules of Faith and do pretend here to teach him them because he seems to be ignorant of them I reckon then that whatsoever confirms or illustrates any Doctrine is a Subordinate Rule of Faith for whatsoever doth make manifest is Light Eph. 5. 13. Such are the ancient Creeds Catechisms Decrees of Councils Testimony of Fathers Consent of Adversaries the Instructions of Parents the Dictates of Wise and Good Men the Voice of Conscience the Light of Natural Reason the Preaching of the Word the Intimations of Providence and lastly Universal Tradition every one of which when it administers Light to the Divine Truths contain'd in the Word of God are Subordinate Rules of Faith But of all these Universal Tradition may on very good Grounds be accounted a Rule For I ask Mr. Owen why he believes the Scripture to be Divinely inspir'd but because 't is transmitted unto us as such by Universal Tradition The Excellency of its Moral Precepts the high Strains and noble Flights of Piety which we meet with there renders it worthy every good Man's Acceptation true but they prove not that 't was written by Inspiration For then Plato and Seneca St. Ignatius and St. Clemens Romanus the Seven Wise Men of Greece and Mr. O. may reckon himself the eighth if he please and a thousand other celebrated Authors might lay claim to Inspiration The Miracles reported in Scripture to have been wrought by the Authors or Divine Writers of the Books do not evince 'em to have been written by Inspiration until it be first made out that those Writers did work those Miracles and this cannot be proved at this time of day but by Tradition So then it is the Universal Testimony of the Church in conjunction with that vein of intrinsick Goodness and Piety running through all the Holy Scriptures which convinces us that they were deliver'd by Persons inspir'd and authoriz'd thereto by God Tradition therefore is at least a Subordinate Rule of Faith and confirms the Divine Authority of the Books of Scripture Another perhaps would affirm it the first and leading Rule But I give Mr. O. liberty to assign it which place he pleases Only I ask whether this Minister of the Gospel who pretends to be a Teacher of others and a Guide of the Blind was ever yet able to give a solid Reason of his own Faith and of the Hope that is in him He can never do it without the help of Tradition The Rector added under this Head some things concerning the Sufficiency Perspicuity and Supreme Authority of the Scripture which this Critick being it seems in a better humour than ordinarily that Generation of Men are is pleas'd out of his great Condescension to declare Are well Asserted But I must confess I like not the Rector one jot the better for this Commendation and yet wish I could in any measure return his Complement and let him know that he has said any one thing well and wisely in his Remarks Master said those vile and Hypocritical Pharisees and Herodians we know that thou art true and teachest the way of God in Truth c. when at the same time they had a design upon Jesus Christ to puzzle and insnare him with a cramp Question So my Adversary here notwithstanding his Commendations has something against the Rector Some Men can never be pleas'd and the Remarker is one of that number I perceive Tell me says he is it lawful to Impose indifferent things His words are Were this Principle practically acknowledg'd it would soon heal our breaches c. As who should say did we once lay aside Vnscriptural Terms of Communion and thereby Practically acknowledg the Sufficiency Perspicuity and Supreme Authority of the Scriptures all would be well in a trice an end then would be put to our Divisions Verily if this would do the feat I would embrace it with both arms I 'd do any thing for the purchase of so valuable a Blessing But how comes this wise Seer to look so far before him as to assure us of this good issue the experiment has been once made already but without success Time was when Episcopacy was exploded and the Unscriptural Terms of Communion here complain'd of laid aside but were our breaches soon healed It was so far from that that they were not healed at all nor ever will be upon the Presbyterian and Congregational Principles Our Division were increas'd and multiply'd Schisms and Heresies grew to be as numerous as the Heads of Hydra In short I know no way of healing our Breaches but that every Man should obey them that have the Rule over 'em in all lawful things q.d. which are not forbidden by God For why should any one presume to scruple or call that unclean which the Lord has not made so They are much more superstitious who abhor a Surplice than they who wear it I lastly observ'd that We diminish from the Word when we add any thing to it I mention'd the Apocrypha which the Romanists insert
foresaid Six Heads by Face They were Masters of King's Trinity St. John's Jesus Clare-Hall and Emmanuel it self I think I may add another of Christ's Colledge I spare their Names Moreover in Trinity Colledge Oxford there are but Twelve Fellows Ten of which were turn'd out at the Purgation and their Places all supply'd by a like number from Cambridge 'T is manifest then that a great Part of the University was not well affected to Episcopacy Mr. O. might do well to ask Mr. Tallents whether he was well affected to Episcopacy in 38 or 40. I might add that the King 's and Parliament's Armies were no sooner in the Field but the Scholars were up in the University and fighting some for the King and some for the Parliament and that with various Success too From the whole then it may be gather'd that it was not impossible but that the Corruption of the 6th of Acts might have been first contriv'd at Cambridge in the Year 1638. The Ferments which the whole Nation and the University it self were then in might give a favourable opportunity and encouragement to the attempt It being too frequent and as it were natural unto most Men to adore the Rising Sun The Minister has labour'd to prove that the Reformation in Scotland was first cast into the Presbyterian Plat-form The contrary hereunto is fully prov'd in that learned Treatise Entituled The Fundamental Charter of Presbytery examin'd and disprov'd c. He means the Article in the Claim of Right Apr. 11. 1689. wherein Prelacy is asserted to be and to have been a great and insupportable grievance and trouble unto the Scotch Nation and contrary to the Inclination of the generality of the People ever since the Reformation they having reformed from Popery by Presbyters c. The Author of the foresaid Treatise has at large and if the Records to which he appeals be true as I think no doubt can be made of 'em by undeniable evidence overthrown all those Pretences for Presbytery mention'd in that Article I will offer here a little out of that Book unto the Reader for a taste remitting him to the Treatise it self which if I am not mistaken is worth any Man's perusing I am sure it gave me infinite Satisfaction He tells us then That there were many Prelates who concur'd in that Work sc the Reformation from Propery as the Bishop of Galloway and of Argyle the Abbots of Lundoris of Culross of St. Colmes-Inih of Coldingham of St. Mary Isle of Aberbrothoick of Kilwinning and of Newbottle the Prior of St. Andrews and the Subperior Fundament Chart. p. 4. He further shews that not one Martyr Confessor or any that had an hand in the Reformation in the Year 1560 declar'd for Presbytery or against Episcopacy pag. 20. not John Knox himself pag. 21. but that Superintendency was erected by Knox p. 35. that Knox compil'd the first Book of Discipline Anno 1560. pag. 36. that in the Year 1559. the Scots being delivered from the French Slavery by the English Assistance subscrib'd to the Religious Worship and Rites of the Church of England This is taken out of Buchanan p. 714 p. 87 88 93. that the Scotch Protestants used the Liturgy of the Church of England in their Publick Devotions Anno 1557. p. 95 96 101. that in the fifth Head of the first Book of Discipline establisht at Perth Anno 1560 it was appointed that the Council should nominate Superintendents p. 113 114. that the Superintendents had Districts and Diocesses under them that there were but ten or twelve design'd for the whole Kingdom that they collated or instituted Parish-Ministers p. 121. that they depos'd Parish Ministers if occasion requir'd that the Superintendents were to be admitted that is Ordain'd not by the Parish-Ministers but the Neighbouring Superintendents p. 122. that their Income was five times as much as that of Parish Ministers p. 123. that they were constant Members of General Assemblies that all inferiour Ministers were bound to pay them Canonical Obedience p. 125 126. that they appointed Diocesan Synods and Fasts p. 131. that Appeals were made to them from Parish Judicatures p 132. that in the second Model at Leith Jan. 12. 1571-72 it was agreed the old Politie should revive p. 185. the old Names and Titles of Archbishops and Bishops retain'd and the old Division of Diocesses take place p. 186. that the Reformation continu'd upon this bottom till 1576 by consequence that Prelacy was the Government of the Scotch Church from the beginning of the Reformation for fifteen years and not alter'd then but with much difficulty and struglings as it fellows in th●… Author But let it be suppos'd That the Reformation of Scotland was first cast into the Presbyterian Platform it proves not that Presbytery was the first and most ancient Government of the Kirk of Scotland but only that at the time of Reformation it was agreeable to the Scots Inclination For I shall in another Paper hereafter to be publish'd prove that the Church of Scotland was govern'd by Bishops of old time And therefore I am still of the Opinion that the Scotch Kirk put away the Wife of its Youth I mean Episcopacy when it reform'd from Popery and join'd it self unto an Harlot I mean Presbytery 'T is an odd way for an Husband to reform his Wife by superinducing and noising her with a strange Woman Ay but the Rector reflects upon the King says the Remarker This is the first time I ever heard of a Presbyterian having any due regard unto a King's Honour and perhaps it will be the last if the Commonwealth Principle gets a little more footing amongst us But let us examin what Truth is in the Accusation When the Scotch Parliament had intimated unto the King their Inclination unto Presbytery the King tells his Commissioner that he believes it is so and therefore is willing to condescend unto their Petition 't is no Reflection on the King I hope to deride the Scots Reason The Rector himself verily believes that Presbytery is agreeable to the Scotch Parliament's Inclination but intends not thereby to reflect on himself In short the Scotch Parliaments Reason for the Act was their Inclination but the King 's was to please and comply with them He has been more kind unto them I am afraid than they mannerly and thankful unto him Now whereas the Act affirms also that the Presbyterian Government is agreeable unto the Word of God as well as to their Inclination it was in my Opinion very sawcily done of ' em Had it not been sufficient to acquaint the King that Presbytery is agreeble to the Word of God but they must needs farther tell his Majesty 't is agreeable to their Inclination as if they had said Sir 't is our mind it should be so we must have this Point granted us or else c. Finally this Expression Agreeable to the Word of God is of doubtful construction It may imply that in their Judgment no
these Men's Judgments if they do not or will not see it 't is because there is no Light in them I appeal to the Law and to the Testimony of the Scripture in this and the eighth Chapters I will not repeat the Evidence I only ask why do they not Ordain their Overseers of the Poor as the Apostles did by their own confession I can imagine no other reason but because it is against their inclinations and looks like a Ceremony To● conclude this Argument The Remarker suggests as if I were not according to my own Principle that is of the People's chusing their own Ministers rightly invested with the Rectory of Bury I have already accounted for this in the Pref. to Tent. nov The Remarkers Business is not to argue soberly but to cavil I advise him in the mean time to examin his own breast whether he obtain'd his former Post at Wrexham by fair honest means to ask himself the Question Whether he did not betray and by a paultry trick supplant Mr. Barnet his Predecessor and step into his Place whether he did not discover the Secrets of his inward Friend and Confident who disclos'd his heart to him as to a Confessor I might moreover tell Mr. Owen that time was when the Presbyterians decreed it Lawful for a Minister to take a Presentation from a Patron This Conclusion was made in the Provincial Meeting at Preston July 6. 1647. as I find it Registred in the fifth Meeting of the second Classis at Bury July 22. of the same Year But the Case it seems is alter'd they have now quitted this Principle I imagin unto the Independents who have requited them with submitting in ordinary unto the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery A Man cannot tell where to find these People Herod and Pontius Pilate are at length Friends how long 't will continue time must shew I am told there are some Dissenters or Nonconformists among 'em already My third Argument was to this purpose that the Episcopal Party can not be imagin'd to have designedly corrupted this Place nor to have conniv'd at it since for that would be to destroy what their Church Government seems to be built on Hereunto the Minister replies That this proves nothing against the Dissenters who do not charge the Episcopal Party with it But I return If it were designedly done or at least if it were afterwards countenanced and propagated with design as I shall once more prove by and by then because Mr. Owen has acquitted us the Dissenters must confess Guilty And if Bishops are as we contend properly the Apostles Successors if the Deacons as has been said were Ministers of the Word and Sacrament then I am not absurd nor singular in hinting at an Argument for Episcopacy from this Text as others before me have done But because this Man of Grammar once more gives us a Cast of his Office and quarrels at the word Seems which says he is as much as if I had contradicted my self and by saying Seems to be built had confest it was not really built upon it I must again shew what an unhappy Critick and Puny Grammaticaster he is Let him then turn to Act. 15. 28. There he 'l read It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and unto us and Chap. 25. 27. It seemeth unreasonable c. Was this as good as to say It was not good to the Holy Ghost c. or it was not unreasonable to send a Prisoner to Rome and not signifie the Crimes laid to his Charge Several other Examples of this kind I could produce out of Scripture and human Authors were it worth the while I only note that Tully in an hundred places uses videtur when he intends to affirm Thus Horace Tres mihi conviva propè dissentire videntur Poscentes vario multum diversa palato Dissentire videntur pro dissentiunt as the following words evince Lastly there is not a more common way of disputing than the Opponents ushering in their Arguments thus Videtur quod sic They do not thereby mean to intimate that what they are about to prove true is false The Remarker then and his Assistants have made a fearful stumble here and run their heads against the Authority of Scripture and all good Authors Nay I will confute them out of Mr. Owen's own mouth Pref. pag. 2. Which says he meaning our omitting to read some Books of Scripture seems to be a Diminishing from the Word of God i e. According to Mr. Owen's Criticism is not diminishing from it why then does he retort it upon us as if it were My fourth and last Argument was deduc'd from the Cameronians citing this corrupt Place in favour of the People's Power of appointing over themselves their own Teachers and Ministers The Minister objects That the Story concerns not the English Presbyterians that he expected I would have instanc'd in some English Presbyterians who have made use of this false Reading that the Scotch Evidence is but hear-say that 't is scarce credible a Cameronian should assert a Doctrine directly contrary to the Presbyterian Principles that the Error of one Man ought not to be charged upon all In answer to all this I say 1. That for the matter of Fact I think it unquestionable 'T is thus The Honourable Colonel Fairfax reported this Fact unto the Reverend Mr. Piggot Vicar of Rochdale in the hearing of several Persons then present in particular of Mr. Rob. Mills a Shop-keeper in Rochdale and a known Dissenter After Mr. P. had satisfy'd 'em about the true Reading of the place in the Original The Company then at Rochdale consulted several English Bibles which they sent for from private Houses and found them corrupted in like manner whereupon Col. Fairfax declar'd that he thought the Presbyterians had some Knavish Design A German Gentleman then in the Company with them pull'd a Dutch Testament of Luther's Translation out of his Pocket wherein he read We and then added he was certain the Presbyterians in Germany and in Scotland where he had lately been were Knaves and it was well if they were better in England Mr. Owen demanded a particular Account of this Fact and I have given it him These latter Circumstance I would have bury'd in oblivion had not my adversaries importunity forc'd me to make 'em thus publick 'T is Mr. O. they are beholden to for it 2. The English Presbyterians are like to bear the Burden of their Brethren in Scotland As they deal with us they should be content to be dealt with themselves They have no colour of Complaint when they duly consider what they have done unto us 3. I promise him presently an Example of an English Dissenter who has made use of this false Reading 4. I am apt to believe almost any thing even Contradictions of a Cameronian But the Comfort is this is not one The Cameronian pleaded not against Ordination by the hands of the Presbyteries as Mr. Owen like a