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book_n author_n word_n write_v 2,404 5 5.2650 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A96167 An answer to W.R. his narration of the opinions and practises of the churches lately erected in Nevv-England. Vindicating those Godly and orthodoxall churches, from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their church way, by the said W.R. in his booke. Wherein is plainely proved, 1. That the grounds of his narration are sandie and insufficient. 2. That the maner of his handling it, unloving and irregular. 3. That the matter of it, ful of grosse mistakes & divers contradictions. 4. That the quotations extremely wrested, and out of measure abused. 5. That his marginall notes impertinent and injurious. / By Thomas Welde, Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in Nevv-England. This is licensed and entred according to order. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1644 (1644) Wing W1262; Thomason E3_18; ESTC R2769 70,175 76

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i_o blame_v he_o just_o or_o no_o by_o peruse_v the_o book_n but_o that_o you_o may_v see_v how_o sober_o and_o cautious_o his_o quote_v author_n speak_v of_o church_n use_v their_o liberty_n i_o will_v write_v their_o own_o word_n ans_fw-fr to_o 32._o q._n 44._o we_o conceive_v every_o church_n have_v right_a from_o christ_n to_o transact_v all_o their_o church_n business_n but_o mark_v the_o caution_n if_o so_o be_v they_o be_v able_a and_o carry_v matter_n just_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n how_o different_a be_v those_o word_n from_o he_o yet_o this_o be_v the_o very_a place_n he_o cite_v you_o say_v w._n r._n you_o undertake_v only_o to_o tell_v a_o story_n of_o new-england_n church_n way_n but_o now_o you_o make_v a_o story_n of_o your_o own_o and_o frame_v it_o and_o mould_v it_o after_o your_o own_o fashion_n you_o can_v so_o add_v and_o alter_v as_o to_o make_v it_o speak_v as_o you_o please_v that_o we_o and_o our_o way_n may_v seem_v odious_a to_o 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cause_n here_o you_o see_v be_v 1_o faction_n 2_o partiality_n 3_o both_o those_o appear_v 4_o obstinacy_n 5_o continue_v in_o obstinacy_n after_o mean_n use_v according_a to_o rule_v all_o these_o before_o the_o censure_n of_o admonition_n pass_v but_o you_o in_o your_o relation_n leave_v out_o all_o these_o word_n of_o your_o author_n and_o put_v in_o such_o of_o your_o own_o as_o will_v not_o so_o much_o enforce_v a_o censure_n as_o these_o and_o then_o tax_v we_o at_o your_o pleasure_n and_o make_v bitter_a invective_n against_o we_o in_o your_o margin_n if_o i_o shall_v have_v retort_v and_o say_v this_o deal_n of_o you_o be_v harsh_a uncharitable_a foolish_a destructive_a etc._n etc._n it_o will_v have_v trouble_v you_o yet_o you_o be_v but_o a_o single_a person_n those_o who_o you_o reproach_n be_v whole_a church_n many_o church_n of_o saint_n but_o we_o have_v learn_v what_o the_o apostle_n say_v 1_o pet._n 2.23_o and_o to_o forbear_v this_o article_n be_v thus_o lay_v prostrate_a there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o in_o his_o marginal_a extraction_n worth_a answer_n he_o blame_v we_o art_n 12._o that_o we_o deny_v unto_o the_o church_n all_o power_n to_o make_v any_o particular_a rule_n or_o law_n in_o thing_n indifferent_a conduce_v to_o the_o better_a government_n of_o herself_o and_o more_o orderly_a and_o edify_a performance_n of_o god_n worship_n accord_v to_o the_o general_a rule_n of_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n 1._o he_o have_v falsify_v his_o print_a author_n allege_v for_o this_o art_n ans_fw-fr answ_n to_o 32._o q._n 66._o col._n cap._n 7._o where_o be_v not_o a_o syllable_n of_o thing_n indifferent_a for_o whereas_o they_o indeed_o deny_v church_n power_n to_o make_v law_n about_o church_n government_n etc._n etc._n their_o word_n &_o meaning_n be_v express_v it_o be_v only_o in_o such_o matter_n where_o the_o scripture_n have_v make_v law_n already_o and_o therefore_o they_o say_v the_o church_n have_v no_o power_n to_o make_v law_n but_o to_o observe_v those_o law_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v and_o command_v and_o do_v allege_v mat._n 28.20_o deut._n 33.3_o john_n 20.27_o none_o i_o hope_v can_v think_v this_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a for_o we_o to_o add_v law_n to_o christ_n his_o own_o law_n and_o this_o be_v all_o they_o say_v 2._o if_o you_o mean_v by_o make_v of_o law_n infer_v of_o plain_a and_o necessary_a conclusion_n from_o their_o proper_a ground_n in_o scripture_n we_o grant_v a_o power_n in_o a_o church_n so_o to_o do_v yet_o so_o as_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v bind_v unless_o the_o evidence_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v make_v appear_v as_o rom._n 14.5.22.23_o but_o i●_n by_o make_v of_o law_n you_o mean_v a_o draw_n of_o conclusion_n from_o remote_a principle_n such_o as_o the_o bishop_n be_v wont_a to_o do_v all_o thing_n must_v be_v decent_o do_v and_o in_o order_n therefore_o a_o surplice_n a_o cross_n in_o baptism_n a_o bow_n at_o the_o altar_n etc._n etc._n we_o deny_v it_o as_o a_o inlet_n 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true_a therefore_o why_o shall_v they_o so_o much_o desire_v these_o way_n think_v you_o they_o be_v so_o cross_a to_o corruption_n that_o will_v have_v elbowroom_n unless_o they_o do_v see_v and_o feel_v our_o beauty_n and_o warmth_n of_o christ_n in_o they_o this_o be_v the_o true_a and_o real_a cause_n the_o word_n say_v h_z and_o the_o sacrament_n shall_v be_v both_o settle_v on_o the_o ministry_n go_v preach_v and_o baptize_v etc._n etc._n why_o do_v we_o separate_v they_o pag._n 23._o to_o preach_v by_o office_n which_o be_v the_o preach_v that_o christ_n there_o give_v in_o commission_n to_o his_o disciple_n be_v call_v to_o be_v apostle_n be_v proper_a only_a to_o minister_n ●swer_v ●swer_v who_o be_v to_o wait_v upon_o teach_v rom._n 12.7_o and_o this_o preach_n and_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v ever_o join_v together_o in_o the_o same_o person_n but_o there_o be_v a_o preach_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n i._o e_fw-la sometime_o to_o apply_v a_o word_n of_o instruction_n exhortation_n consolation_n if_o necessity_n shall_v require_v according_a to_o their_o talon_n be_v invite_v thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v common_a to_o other_o godly_a and_o able_a christian_n though_o not_o call_v into_o office_n as_o art_n 8._o 1._o 4._o where_o the_o whole_a church_n except_o the_o apostle_n be_v scatter_v by_o persecution_n and_o they_o that_o be_v so_o scatter_v without_o distinction_n of_o minister_n or_o people_n go_v to_o and_o fro_o preach_v therefore_o other_o beside_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n may_v preach_v the_o word_n if_o you_o take_v preach_v in_o a_o large_a sense_n 3._o for_o the_o two_o instance_n he_o bring_v p._n 24._o of_o people_n unabilitie_n of_o judge_v elect_a vote_v etc._n etc._n from_o holland_n and_o boston_n etc._n etc._n 1._o the_o best_a people_n on_o earth_n may_v have_v their_o hour_n of_o temptation_n and_o personal_a fail_n do_v not_o hinder_v the_o goodness_n or_o truth_n of_o the_o rule_n ●nsw_n ●nsw_n 2._o what_o church_n in_o the_o world_n have_v not_o possible_o first_o or_o last_o give_v or_o else_o may_v give_v strange_a instance_n of_o humane_a frailty_n but_o still_o you_o count_v their_o way_n good_a 3._o even_o those_o church_n you_o mention_n be_v able_a at_o other_o time_n both_o before_o and_o since_o to_o act_v as_o become_v prudent_a and_o godly_a man_n though_o possible_o at_o that_o time_n they_o may_v show_v themselves_o to_o be_v but_o man_n 4._o these_o person_n recover_v out_o of_o their_o error_n and_o lay_v not_o in_o it_o you_o shall_v have_v mention_v this_o as_o well_o as_o that_o if_o the_o officer_n through_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n perhaps_o refuse_v to_o act_v according_a to_o their_o i._n e._n the_o people_n mind_n they_o will_v &_o they_o hold_v they_o may_v call_v four_o any_o other_o member_n to_o do_v and_o enable_v he_o with_o power_n to_o do_v all_o that_o their_o officer_n shall_v have_v do_v except_o sacrament_n a_o most_o unjust_a and_o slanderous_a report_n and_o without_o any_o word_n of_o proof_n answ_n so_o now_o we_o must_v father_n it_o upon_o he_o and_o do_v here_o require_v he_o to_o prove_v it_o for_o almost_o every_o word_n be_v a_o aggravation_n but_o i_o study_v brevity_n and_o mention_v this_o before_o art_n 9_o they_o complain_v in_o print_n that_o their_o minister_n be_v slight_v among_o they_o yea_o trample_v upon_o by_o some_o and_o mention_n for_o this_o cot._n on_o 2_o vial_n p._n 24._o of_o who_o word_n judge_v and_o you_o shall_v not_o find_v one_o word_n to_o warrant_v he_o all_o his_o invective_n against_o we_o on_o the_o 11._o article_n marg._n for_o extort_v a_o consent_n from_o such_o as_o dissent_v from_o we_o be_v exceed_v slanderous_a and_o not_o a_o word_n true_a nor_o any_o tittle_n of_o proof_n for_o none_o be_v ever_o admonish_v for_o dissent_v but_o for_o faction_n and_o obstinacy_n as_o his_o author_n speak_v as_o be_v say_v before_o let_v i_o hear_v tell_v the_o reader_n there_o be_v sundry_a unsound_a and_o uncouth_a passage_n in_o this_o chap._n as_o indeed_o through_o the_o whole_a book_n which_o for_o brevity_n i_o be_o force_v to_o pass_v by_o and_o indeed_o not_o worth_a my_o time_n i_o entreat_v thou_o to_o take_v all_o his_o say_n with_o a_o grain_n of_o salt_n know_v from_o what_o spirit_n they_o proceed_v answer_v to_o chap._n vii_o in_o this_o 1._o art_n there_o be_v three_o thing_n that_o will_v be_v find_v too_o light_a 1._o he_o affirm_v we_o say_v all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o be_v settle_v member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n yet_o in_o his_o margin_n he_o affirm_v answ_n we_o allow_v some_o to_o be_v admit_v transient_a member_n for_o a_o time_n only_o now_o to_o be_v settle_a and_o yet_o transient_a be_v
of_o error_n deliver_v before_o all_o the_o people_n so_o as_o it_o be_v a_o scandal_n to_o the_o people_n &_o a_o reproach_n to_o the_o minister_n etc._n etc._n all_o this_o be_v his_o own_o addition_n then_o for_o the_o other_o cite_v author_n answer_n to_o 32_o q._n 78_o he_o deal_v more_o gross_o with_o he_o then_o the_o former_a who_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n pointblank_o against_o he_o yet_o he_o bold_o give_v he_o up_o for_o a_o author_n his_o word_n be_v these_o we_o never_o know_v any_o minister_n that_o do_v call_v upon_o the_o people_n thus_o to_o do_v i._n e._n to_o propound_v question_n and_o such_o call_n upon_o they_o be_v far_o from_o we_o some_o think_v the_o people_n have_v a_o liberty_n to_o ask_v a_o question_n upon_o very_o urgent_a and_o weighty_a cause_n none_o judge_v the_o ordinary_a practice_n of_o it_o necessary_a but_o if_o not_o meek_o and_o wise_o carry_v inconvenient_a if_o not_o utter_o unlawful_a and_o therefore_o such_o ask_n of_o question_n be_v seldom_o use_v in_o any_o in_o most_o church_n near_o true_a it_o be_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o opinion_n some_o be_v bold_a in_o this_o kind_n but_o these_o man_n be_v long_o since_o go_v the_o synod_n and_o sermon_n have_v reprove_v this_o disorder_n so_o that_o a_o man_n may_v now_o live_v from_o one_o end_n of_o the_o year_n to_o another_o in_o these_o congregation_n and_o not_o hear_v any_o man_n open_v his_o mouth_n in_o such_o kind_n of_o question_n these_o the_o author_n word_n ☞_o ☞_o now_o good_a reader_n do_v we_o the_o favour_n to_o give_v righteous_a judgement_n whether_o these_o word_n cite_v by_o he_o make_v for_o he_o or_o against_o he_o where_o be_v 1_o giving_z leave_n 2_o a_o course_n of_o give_v leave_n 3_o to_o any_o 4_o to_o object_n and_o urge_v pro_fw-la and_o con_v and_o 6_o which_o be_v horrible_o gross_a to_o implead_v the_o minister_n of_o error_n at_o the_o first_o dash_n and_o that_o open_o before_o all_o the_o people_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o his_o own_o cite_a author_n tell_v he_o the_o contrary_a 1_o that_o it_o be_v do_v not_o often_o but_o seldom_o 2_o not_o many_o question_n but_o a_o question_n 3_o not_o upon_o sleight_n but_o weighty_a and_o very_a urgent_a ground_n 4_o not_o rash_o and_o bold_o but_o wise_o and_o meek_o 5_o and_o this_o not_o peremptory_o conclude_v of_o by_o all_o but_o some_o only_o think_v they_o have_v a_o liberty_n 6_o and_o not_o that_o it_o be_v now_o so_o much_o do_v but_o be_v for_o a_o time_n by_o the_o bold_a opinionist_n who_o be_v now_o chase_v away_o long_o ago_o see_v what_o a_o vast_a gulf_n betwixt_o the_o author_n and_o w._n r._n now_o for_o he_o to_o read_v over_o distinct_o all_o these_o expression_n in_o this_o book_n for_o that_o answer_n be_v write_v to_o himself_o from_o godly_a man_n in_o new-england_n yet_o to_o produce_v it_o as_o a_o proof_n for_o his_o art_n and_o the_o marg._n which_o in_o common_a sense_n be_v contrary_a to_o it_o i_o stand_v amaze_v at_o it_o and_o wonder_v with_o what_o face_n he_o can_v print_v it_o or_o have_v do_v it_o how_o he_o can_v let_v his_o book_n be_v keep_v from_o the_o fire_n thus_o long_o yet_o further_o note_n our_o narratour_n undertake_v to_o relate_v only_o such_o church-course_n as_o be_v general_o by_o the_o church_n in_o new-england_n practise_v as_o pag._n 1._o title_n how_o then_o can_v he_o with_o honesty_n bring_v in_o this_o ask_v of_o question_n among_o such_o kind_n of_o general_a church_n course_n of_o we_o whereas_o his_o author_n plain_o say_v this_o ask_n of_o question_n be_v not_o generally_n practise_v nor_o by_o all_v the_o church_n but_o seldom_o in_o any_o church_n and_o in_o most_o church_n never_o at_o all_o and_o that_o one_o may_v live_v as_o he_o say_v from_o one_o end_n of_o the_o year_n to_o another_o in_o our_o congregation_n and_o not_o here_o any_o man_n open_v his_o mouth_n in_o such_o kind_n of_o question_n what_o will_v not_o w._n r._n bold_o attempt_v against_o his_o brethren_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o their_o church_n that_o cite_v these_o very_a word_n i_o have_v relate_v to_o prove_v such_o church_n course_n in_o new-england_n as_o be_v general_o practise_v among_o we_o answer_v to_o chap._n xiiii_o to_o marg._n on_o the_o title_n some_o say_v he_o grow_v rich_a of_o the_o word_n independent_a some_o utter_o renounce_v it_o yet_o most_o own_a it_o answer_n if_o the_o word_n be_v right_o take_v as_o in_o answer_n to_o 32._o q._n 46._o it_o be_v expound_v for_o one_o church_n that_o be_v not_o under_o the_o power_n of_o another_o or_o in_o subjection_n to_o a_o presbytery_n but_o as_o have_v receive_v power_n from_o christ_n to_o govern_v herself_o according_a to_o his_o law_n then_o all_o accord_n to_o it_o but_o if_o the_o word_n independent_a be_v abusive_o take_v as_o it_o be_v often_o with_o the_o vulgar_a for_o such_o a_o society_n as_o be_v neither_o subject_n to_o magistracy_n nor_o regard_v the_o counsel_n of_o other_o church_n but_o be_v a_o conceit_a and_o selfe-sufficient_a people_n that_o stand_v only_o on_o their_o own_o leg_n then_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o be_v rich_a of_o a_o word_n that_o may_v render_v we_o odious_a without_o cause_n to_o marg._n of_o 1_o art_n that_o we_o have_v store_n of_o imperative_fw-it church_n who_o may_v command_v yea_o compel_v both_o member_n and_o minister_n to_o act_v ans_fw-fr another_o slander_n without_o ground_n or_o proof_n or_o truth_n which_o i_o leave_v here_o upon_o record_n god_n our_o conscience_n and_o our_o brethren_n bear_v we_o witness_n how_o tender_a our_o church_n be_v but_o to_o persuade_v man_n to_o act_v without_o light_n much_o more_o to_o command_v or_o compel_v both_o which_o very_a word_n though_o the_o thing_n require_v be_v lawful_a be_v odious_a in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n most_o fit_o become_v the_o synagogue_n of_o antichrist_n have_v he_o a_o licence_n to_o speak_v any_o thing_n to_o art_n 2._o we_o hold_v our_o church_n power_n absolute_a and_o imperial_a answ_n all_o we_o use_v to_o speak_v of_o our_o church-power_n be_v that_o it_o be_v ministerial_a which_o be_v far_o from_o absolute_a and_o imperial_a word_n fit_a for_o emperor_n of_o this_o world_n than_o the_o church_n of_o the_o saint_n i_o charge_v it_o on_o his_o conscience_n as_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n either_o to_o make_v this_o appear_v or_o else_o vindicate_v we_o as_o become_v a_o honest_a christian_n to_o do_v and_o for_o his_o two_o print_a author_n cite_v for_o we_o can_v come_v at_o his_o private_a letter_n if_o there_o be_v any_o one_o word_n or_o show_v of_o ground_n from_o they_o to_o maintain_v his_o speech_n let_v i_o bear_v the_o shame_n of_o it_o for_o i_o here_o avouch_v the_o contrary_a under_o my_o hand_n to_o art_n 3._o and_o marg._n that_o we_o deny_v all_o representation_n of_o church_n absent_a and_o all_o authoritative_a deputation_n of_o messenger_n to_o act_v for_o they_o ●nsw_n ●nsw_n 1._o the_o reader_n may_v well_o see_v it_o be_v his_o own_o say_n not_o we_o for_o he_o bring_v no_o proof_n but_o from_o barrow_n and_o johnson_n who_o can_v well_o give_v in_o their_o testimony_n for_o our_o church_n way_n in_o new-england_n because_o they_o never_o come_v there_o yea_o be_v in_o their_o grave_n both_o or_o one_o long_v before_o ever_o we_o have_v a_o be_v in_o new-england_n 2._o there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o it_o for_o we_o hold_v a_o church_n may_v delegate_v some_o man_n and_o send_v they_o forth_o in_o their_o name_n and_o stead_n with_o authority_n to_o act_v for_o they_o in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a business_n of_o trust_n as_o act._n 15.2_o and_o yet_o he_o have_v bold_o now_o twice_o or_o thrice_o affirm_v the_o same_o thing_n of_o we_o and_o bring_v no_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o it_o and_o it_o be_v answer_v before_o cap._n 2._o art_n 3._o marg._n yet_o some_o tell_v we_o say_v he_o that_o mr._n p._n and_o mr._n w._n be_v send_v hither_o by_o the_o church_n to_o negotiate_v for_o they_o etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o some_o tell_v we_o sir_n you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o judgement_n and_o gravity_n able_a to_o instruct_v other_o you_o know_v you_o may_v not_o blemish_v your_o brethren_n and_o sl●nder_a church_n upon_o such_o poor_a and_o weak_a ground_n as_o it_o be_v report_v i_o be_o inform_v some_o tell_v we_o and_o yet_o how_o oft_o in_o your_o book_n have_v you_o use_v this_o course_n of_o deal_n towards_o your_o bretbren_n and_o their_o church_n some_o tell_v we_o indeed_o be_v warrant_n enough_o for_o people_n that_o have_v no_o other_o business_n to_o make_v three_o farthing_n book_n of_o and_o thereby_o fill_v the_o world_n with_o tale_n but_o oh_o far_o be_v
a_o answer_n to_o w._n r._n his_o narration_n of_o the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n late_o erect_v in_o new-england_n vindicate_v those_o godly_a and_o orthodoxal_a church_n from_o more_o than_o a_o hundred_o imputation_n father_v on_o they_o and_o their_o church_n way_n by_o the_o say_v w._n r._n in_o his_o book_n wherein_o be_v plain_o prove_v 1._o that_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o narration_n be_v sandy_a and_o insufficient_a 2._o that_o the_o manner_n of_o his_o handle_n it_o unloving_a and_o irregular_a 3._o that_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o full_a of_o gross_a mistake_n &_o divers_a contradiction_n 4._o that_o the_o quotation_n extreme_o wrest_v and_o out_o of_o measure_n abuse_v 5._o that_o his_o marginal_a note_n impertinent_a and_o injurious_a by_o thomas_n welde_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o roxborough_n in_o new-england_a judas_n 10._o they_o speak_v evil_a of_o thing_n they_o know_v not_o prov._n 18.17_o he_o that_o be_v first_o in_o his_o own_o case_n seem_v just_a but_o his_o neighbour_n come_v after_o and_o search_v he_o this_o be_v license_v and_o enter_v according_a to_o order_n london_n print_v by_o tho_n pain_n for_o h._n overton_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o his_o shop_n enter_v into_o popes-head_n alley_n out_o of_o lumbardstreete_n 1644._o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o redaer_n there_o be_v a_o law_n in_o israel_n 19_o deut._n 22.18_o 19_o that_o if_o any_o man_n do_v bring_v a_o ill_a name_n upon_o a_o virgin_n of_o israel_n the_o matter_n be_v to_o come_v before_o the_o elder_n and_o he_o be_v to_o be_v chastise_v and_o amerce_v a_o hundred_o shekell_n of_o silver_n there_o be_v one_o w._n r._n if_o thou_o know_v the_o man_n that_o have_v bring_v many_o ill_a report_n not_o upon_o one_o virgin_n but_o all_o the_o virgin-churche_n of_o new-england_n when_o thou_o see_v he_o do_v so_o much_o as_o bring_v he_o forth_o to_o answer_v this_o law_n tell_v he_o we_o purpose_v to_o try_v a_o action_n with_o he_o and_o have_v satisfaction_n from_o he_o and_o if_o he_o say_v he_o have_v not_o raise_v these_o report_n himself_o but_o have_v they_o from_o other_o then_o tell_v he_o again_o from_o we_o that_o can_v satisfy_v for_o we_o have_v learn_v from_o divine_a and_o humane_a law_n that_o if_o any_o be_v take_v report_v of_o slander_n as_o we_o shall_v abundant_o show_v he_o have_v do●_n his_o narrative_n he_o may_v be_v charge_v as_o the_o raiser_n of_o ●_o 〈◊〉_d he_o can_v clear_v himself_o by_o bring_v such_o author_n into_o light_n as_o will_v own_v they_o 5.19_o dut._n 17.6_o 2_o cor._n 13.1_o 1_o tim._n 5.19_o but_o if_o he_o will_v not_o or_o can_v we_o must_v lay_v they_o at_o his_o own_o door_n it_o be_v for_o all_o the_o several_a report_n in_o his_o book_n bring_v against_o we_o and_o our_o way_n we_o expect_v the_o rule_n of_o moses_n and_o the_o apo-stle_a paul_n that_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n and_o not_o under_o every_o matter_n shall_v be_v establish_v to_o produce_v barrow_n browne_n robinson_n etc._n etc._n for_o author_n for_o they_o be_v dead_a before_o new-england_n church_n be_v bear_v or_o h._n w._n t._n p._n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o private_a letter_n lie_v by_o he_o in_o his_o study_n for_o we_o know_v not_o their_o voice_n nor_o let_v he_o say_v it_o be_v tell_v i_o as_o he_o often_o do_v for_o we_o protest_v against_o such_o testimony_n nor_o i_o be_v informedso_o etc._n etc._n for_o sama_n est_fw-la mendax_fw-la and_o prejudice_n hardly_o speak_v well_o of_o any_o tell_v he_o we_o will_v go_v to_o age_a paul_n he_o be_v a_o good_a divine_a to_o be_v our_o umpire_n to_o determine_v what_o witness_n we_o must_v have_v in_o a_o case_n of_o accusation_n and_o to_o his_o verdict_n we_o will_v stand_v which_o be_v set_v down_o plain_o 1_v tim._n 5.19_o three_o thing_n more_o let_v i_o say_v to_o the_o reader_n and_o i_o have_v do_v 1._o wonder_v not_o this_o answer_n stay_v so_o long_o for_o it_o have_v certain_o take_v his_o narrative_a by_o the_o heel_n but_o that_o some_o special_a providence_n who_o distract_a line_n intercept_v the_o truth_n be_v i_o think_v it_o shall_v need_v no_o other_o answer_n then_o itself_o until_o i_o perceive_v some_o ill_a effect_n of_o it_o 2_o but_o why_o do_v i_o undertake_v this_o work_n answer_v 1._o i_o be_o one_o of_o the_o near_a kinsman_n to_o those_o church_n of_o any_o other_o man_n in_o these_o part_n and_o therefore_o i_o take_v myself_o bind_v to_o the_o name_n of_o my_o brethren_n in_o a_o righteous_a way_n and_o not_o let_v it_o die_v through_o my_o neglect_n 2._o few_o or_o none_o be_v here_o have_v have_v more_o experience_n of_o new-england_n church_n course_n than_o myself_o through_o many_o year_n continuance_n with_o they_o and_o to_o who_o i_o be_o return_v when_o god_n make_v way_n and_o be_o therefore_o able_a to_o speak_v on_o certainty_n and_o with_o conscience_n where_o w._n r._n depart_v from_o the_o truth_n in_o his_o relation_n 3._o i_o have_v be_v press_v by_o word_n of_o mouth_n and_o sundry_a letter_n to_o do_v it_o therefore_o if_o i_o shall_v hold_v my_o peace_n when_o i_o be_o call_v to_o speak_v and_o see_v so_o many_o innocent_a church_n suffer_v i_o shall_v not_o lift_v up_o my_o face_n to_o god_n nor_o my_o brethren_n there_o god_n know_v my_o spirit_n how_o exceed_v loath_a i_o be_v to_o controvert_v with_o a_o brother_n though_o but_o a_o defendant_n and_o to_o uncover_v his_o nakedness_n but_o when_o god_n call_v i_o be_o bind_v with_o moses_n when_o he_o see_v the_o hebrew_n do_v wrong_n to_o his_o brother_n to_o say_v why_o smite_v thou_o thy_o fellow_n 2.13_o exod._n 2.13_o 3._o touch_v the_o answer_n itself_o some_o thing_n i_o will_v say_v 1_o i_o think_v it_o not_o meet_v to_o answer_v all_o i_o can_v nor_o to_o every_o particular_a especial_o in_o his_o marginal_a extravagance_n that_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a for_o our_o principal_a passage_n be_v answer_v unto_o the_o rest_n will_v fall_v of_o themselves_o 2._o nor_o to_o answer_v any_o thing_n in_o his_o book_n so_o oft_o as_o he_o repeat_v it_o for_o divers_a thing_n be_v fetch_v over_o by_o he_o some_o three_o some_o four_o several_a time_n what_o his_o reason_n be_v himself_o can_v best_o give_v account_n 3._o neither_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o i_o to_o answer_v the_o say_n of_o his_o private_a letter_n lie_v by_o he_o such_o a_o ground_n of_o church_n story_n as_o i_o never_o hear_v of_o because_o i_o know_v neither_o who_o they_o be_v nor_o what_o their_o own_o word_n be_v or_o if_o i_o do_v be_v it_o material_a 4._o thou_o see_v i_o have_v a_o three_o fold_v work_n to_o answer_v 1._o his_o article_n 2_o his_o quotation_n 3_o his_o margin_n all_o which_o i_o have_v endeavour_v faithful_o as_o in_o god_n presence_n to_o do_v what_o oversight_n or_o infirmity_n have_v pass_v my_o pen_n therein_o i_o crave_v thy_o pardon_n for_o we_o be_v weak_a man_n and_o god_n know_v too_o apt_a to_o forget_v ourselves_o in_o great_a thing_n than_o these_o 5._o what_o i_o here_o write_v be_v only_o from_o myself_o if_o any_o weakness_n appear_v impute_v it_o not_o i_o pray_v thou_o to_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n or_o our_o church_n judgement_n there_o but_o to_o my_o own_o frailty_n rather_o 6._o nor_o be_v it_o my_o scope_n to_o discuss_v the_o point_n of_o discipline_n that_o work_n be_v in_o able_a hand_n but_o i_o look_v upon_o his_o book_n as_o a_o historical_a narration_n and_o according_o i_o frame_v my_o answer_n 7._o though_o he_o bring_v not_o the_o word_n of_o any_o of_o his_o author_n cite_v which_o have_v be_v fair_a and_o may_v have_v keep_v he_o in_o close_a bond_n yet_o i_o have_v do_v it_o for_o he_o especial_o in_o the_o last_o six_o or_o eight_o chapter_n that_o you_o may_v judge_v whether_o he_o have_v deal_v fair_o with_o they_o or_o no._n 8._o when_o i_o recite_v w._n r._n his_o word_n in_o his_o narration_n you_o will_v see_v i_o have_v deal_v candid_o with_o he_o either_o mention_v his_o very_a word_n or_o so_o many_o of_o they_o as_o contain_v their_o full_a strength_n whereto_o my_o answer_n tend_v 9_o when_o at_o any_o time_n in_o my_o answer_n i_o say_v such_o a_o article_n or_o such_o a_o clause_n be_v untrue_a or_o be_v false_a i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o impute_v the_o falsity_n thereof_o to_o the_o author_n knowledge_n i_o will_v judge_v otherwise_o of_o he_o then_o so_o but_o to_o the_o thing_n itself_o assert_v which_o may_v be_v do_v through_o his_o misinformation_n or_o mistake_v i_o will_v say_v no_o more_o but_o commit_v thy_o spirit_n to_o the_o wise_a guidance_n of_o the_o father_n of_o light_n who_o
haply_o to_o the_o great_a detriment_n of_o our_o cause_n for_o that_o we_o be_v unwilling_a to_o blow_v a_o fire_n 2._o when_o we_o do_v appear_v in_o pulpit_n or_o press_n whether_o it_o be_v without_o instigation_n or_o no_o and_o how_o spare_v we_o have_v be_v ever_o since_o until_o some_o late_a force_a reply_n and_o how_o inoffensive_a in_o our_o carriage_n and_o preach_n we_o leave_v to_o all_o godly_a to_o judge_v 3._o instance_n but_o in_o the_o holland_n brethren_n apology_n be_v it_o impetuous_o do_v be_v it_o a_o mock_v narrative_n a_o mere_a gull_a as_o this_o man_n most_o abusive_o style_v it_o be_v it_o not_o rather_o full_a of_o peaceablenesse_n modesty_n and_o candour_n and_o seasonable_o needful_a as_o that_o reverend_a man_n affirm_v in_o print_n 4._o do_v not_o w._n r._n know_v that_o about_o this_o time_n of_o promise_n and_o paction_n or_o a_o while_n after_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n do_v write_v a_o letter_n into_o scotland_n with_o many_o of_o their_o hand_n to_o it_o tell_v the_o minister_n there_o they_o do_v approve_v of_o their_o government_n and_o will_v join_v in_o the_o furtherance_n of_o it_o now_o for_o he_o to_o bind_v our_o hand_n and_o seal_v up_o our_o mouth_n and_o then_o underhand_o at_o the_o same_o time_n to_o fore-determine_a the_o matter_n and_o be_v engage_v in_o that_o way_n before_o any_o solemn_a dispute_n and_o yet_o to_o accuse_v we_o for_o break_v paction_n seem_v neither_o rational_a nor_o fair_a other_o thing_n i_o shall_v speak_v to_o the_o preface_n afterward_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o book_n only_o this_o he_o will_v make_v the_o reader_n believe_v to_o forestall_v he_o that_o there_o be_v some_o seem_a contradiction_n in_o our_o tenet_n &_o apparent_a repugnance_n to_o the_o letter_n of_o scripture_n or_o light_n of_o common_a sense_n but_o what_o real_a contradiction_n be_v in_o his_o narrative_n and_o manifest_a repugnance_n in_o his_o animadversion_n to_o scripture_n rule_v light_n of_o reason_n and_o common_a sense_n too_o by_o the_o help_n of_o god_n i_o shall_v make_v to_o appear_v but_o with_o a_o sad_a heart_n i_o must_v tell_v he_o that_o such_o thing_n shall_v be_v write_v by_o a_o brother_n who_o we_o have_v so_o much_o esteem_v and_o reverence_v but_o see_v now_o it_o be_v do_v rather_o then_o so_o many_o precious_a saint_n and_o church_n shall_v suffer_v wrongful_o i_o be_o force_v to_o uncover_v if_o other_o be_v right_o inform_v and_o himself_o convince_v i_o have_v my_o end_n to_o the_o narration_n in_o general_n as_o he_o say_v he_o have_v lay_v by_o the_o thought_n of_o it_o a_o good_a while_n through_o many_o discouragement_n so_o i_o conceive_v if_o he_o have_v cast_v they_o by_o for_o ever_o &_o make_v the_o place_n of_o conception_n their_o grave_n he_o have_v deal_v better_a for_o the_o truth_n and_o himself_o but_o he_o be_v very_o angry_a for_o want_v of_o narratives_n one_o he_o must_v have_v and_o one_o he_o will_v have_v be_v it_o right_n or_o wrong_n and_o if_o neither_o new-england_n nor_o holland_n brethren_n be_v worth_a a_o narrative_a let_v he_o come_v he_o will_v frame_v one_o himself_o and_o this_o shall_v be_v no_o mock_n narrative_n no_o mere_a gull_a as_o the_o holland_n brethren_n produce_v but_o a_o more_o solid_a thing_n now_o what_o it_o be_v will_v appear_v if_o we_o weigh_v three_o thing_n that_o the_o ground_n on_o which_o he_o build_v it_o be_v sandy_a and_o insufficient_a the_o manner_n of_o his_o proceed_n unloving_a and_o irregular_a the_o matter_n of_o it_o 1._o full_o of_o gross_a mistake_n contrariety_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o contradiction_n to_o itself_o 2._o his_o quotation_n abuse_v extreme_o and_o wrest_v 3._o his_o marginal_a note_n very_o scandalous_a and_o offensive_a and_o according_a to_o this_o method_n we_o will_v proceed_v and_o undertake_v to_o make_v all_o these_o particular_n good_a in_o our_o answer_n first_o for_o his_o ground_n you_o will_v think_v that_o the_o ground_n on_o which_o all_o his_o work_n be_v found_v and_o all_o new-england_n church_n tax_v have_v need_n be_v sound_a even_o adequate_a or_o else_o he_o will_v not_o prove_v himself_o a_o wise_a builder_n but_o they_o be_v these_o three_o 1._o our_o own_o print_a book_n 2._o private_a letter_n 3._o other_o good_a intelligence_n as_o himself_o say_v in_o his_o title_n for_o the_o print_a book_n which_o he_o quote_v they_o be_v the_o writing_n of_o some_o godly_a and_o learned_a man_n there_o but_o that_o these_o be_v right_o conceive_v know_v 1._o these_o book_n five_o in_o number_n be_v not_o write_v from_o all_o the_o elder_n two_o of_o they_o but_o from_o one_o only_a another_o from_o some_o few_o none_o of_o they_o from_o all_o 2._o not_o write_v to_o the_o church_n here_o as_o a_o platform_n of_o our_o practice_n but_o send_v as_o a_o answer_n to_o some_o one_o or_o more_o brethren_n in_o england_n that_o desire_a satisfaction_n to_o some_o quaetee_n of_o their_o own_o whereof_o w._n r._n himself_o be_v one_o 3._o nor_o intend_v by_o they_o for_o the_o press_n much_o less_o to_o be_v make_v a_o standard_n to_o prove_v our_o church_n opinion_n and_o way_n by_o but_o publish_v by_o some_o well-minded_a here_o without_o their_o knowledge_n yea_o against_o the_o mind_n of_o some_o of_o they_o yet_o if_o he_o have_v keep_v close_o to_o these_o in_o his_o narration_n he_o have_v save_v his_o credit_n and_o my_o pain_n but_o you_o shall_v see_v he_o have_v so_o abuse_v and_o wrest_v they_o i_o dare_v say_v in_o well-near_a a_o hundred_o place_n that_o his_o assertion_n be_v not_o their_o say_n and_o word_n but_o his_o own_o and_o they_o will_v leave_v he_o to_o quit_v himself_o as_o well_o as_o he_o can_v for_o as_o scripture_n itself_o the_o rule_n of_o all_o thing_n abuse_v be_v no_o scripture_n so_o the_o writing_n of_o man_n pervert_v be_v no_o more_o they_o this_o we_o shall_v make_v plentiful_o appear_v sundry_a private_a letter_n lie_v by_o he_o as_o he_o say_v send_v 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woman_n yet_o after_o believe_v on_o he_o for_o his_o own_o sake_n and_o the_o truth_n they_o discern_v to_o be_v in_o he_o ob._n ob._n all_o our_o church_n say_v he_o in_o new-england_n &_o their_o member_n do_v clear_o see_v the_o shine_a light_n of_o discipline_n by_o a_o clear_a evidence_n of_o the_o way_n reveal_v to_o they_o and_o yet_o do●_n ti●_n themselves_o to_o a_o precedent_n ans_fw-fr be_v not_o here_o a_o contradiction_n for_o if_o we_o all_o have_v full_a clear_a shine_a light_n ☞_o ☞_o than_o we_o need_v no_o spectacle_n of_o a_o precedent_n or_o if_o we_o tie_v ourselves_o to_o a_o precedent_n it_o be_v because_o we_o conceive_v we_o have_v not_o full_a and_o clear_a light_n of_o our_o own_o objection_n 4_o but_o we_o have_v have_v division_n among_o we_o ans_fw-fr 1._o those_o division_n be_v not_o cause_v by_o our_o church_n discipline_n but_o by_o certain_a vile_a opinion_n bring_v to_o we_o from_o england_n which_o i_o fear_v be_v your_o own_o case_n this_o day_n and_o yet_o no_o blame_n you_o will_v say_v 2._o through_o rich_a mercy_n they_o be_v long_o since_o subdue_v by_o the_o light_n and_o power_n of_o his_o truth_n o_o that_o you_o can_v say_v the_o same_o of_o all_o the_o loose_a opinion_n here_o if_o the_o will_n of_o god_n be_v so_o for_o which_o we_o sigh_v daily_o to_o heaven_n on_o your_o behalf_n and_o dare_v not_o reproach_v you_o with_o it_o 3._o when_o these_o division_n do_v fall_n it_o be_v while_o our_o discipline_n stand_v which_o show_v that_o our_o discipline_n breed_v they_o not_o but_o destroy_v they_o rather_o objection_n 5_o to_o the_o margin_n on_o article_n 3_o if_o a_o impose_v platform_n by_o imperious_a power_n be_v unlawful_a in_o other_o why_o do_v we_o so_o rigorrous_o press_v other_o to_o our_o precedent_n answ_n to_o impose_v a_o thing_n and_o that_o by_o a_o imperious_a power_n which_o may_v possible_o be_v erroneous_a in_o itself_o or_o without_o evidence_n to_o other_o conscience_n on_o who_o it_o be_v 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christ_n himself_o will_v do_v if_o in_o our_o place_n 2._o it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o all_o other_o society_n in_o the_o world_n do_v who_o first_o require_v conformity_n before_o they_o permit_v to_o any_o the_o enjoyment_n of_o their_o liberty_n 3._o do_v we_o any_o more_o herein_o than_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n themselves_o at_o this_o day_n who_o will_v not_o willing_o admit_v unto_o church-imployment_n and_o privilege_n any_o of_o a_o contrary_a judgement_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o either_o these_o or_o those_o exercise_n rigour_n but_o we_o will_v not_o own_o such_o as_o sister_n church_n that_o differ_v from_o we_o though_o objection_n 7_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n in_o church_n discipline_n do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o england_n differ_v from_o we_o not_o only_o in_o some_o thing_n but_o in_o many_o as_o w._n r._n ans_fw-fr ☜_o ☜_o himself_o say_v and_o yet_o we_o own_v they_o as_o sister_n church_n witness_v his_o own_o quote_v author_n discourse_v of_o covenant_n p._n 36._o at_o large_a mr._n cotton_v print_v letter_n all_o which_o affirm_v in_o effect_n and_o some_o in_o word_n that_o we_o bless_v the_o womb_n that_o bear_v we_o and_o the_o pap_n that_o give_v we_o suck_v we_o entreat_v w._n r._n in_o the_o spirit_n of_o meekness_n to_o clear_v himself_o from_o a_o slander_n in_o such_o a_o general_a accusation_n of_o his_o brethren_n yet_o we_o more_o rigid_o impose_v our_o pattern_n then_o any_o church_n ever_o do_v objection_n 8_o how_o great_a a_o aspersion_n this_o be_v i_o leave_v other_o to_o judge_n answ_n and_o the_o lord_n himself_o to_o convince_v he_o of_o why_o have_v there_o ever_o be_v so_o much_o as_o any_o attempt_n among_o we_o to_o suspend_v excommunicate_a ☜_o ☜_o deprive_v banish_v imprison_v any_o for_o dissent_v from_o we_o in_o matter_n of_o discipline_n as_o of_o late_a in_o england_n for_o nonconformity_n or_o to_o raise_v a_o bloody_a war_n for_o bishop_n &_o a_o service_n book_n as_o against_o our_o brethren_n in_o scotland_n or_o to_o slander_v falsify_v author_n render_v many_o godly_a church_n odious_a to_o the_o world_n as_o w._n r._n himself_o have_v do_v in_o this_o book_n mere_o for_o difference_n from_o he_o in_o point_n of_o church_n government_n we_o have_v indeed_o civil_o &_o ecclesiastical_o censure_v divers_a there_o among_o we_o but_o it_o be_v for_o obstinacy_n in_o weighty_a point_n in_o religion_n sedition_n in_o the_o state_n scandalous_a practice_n as_o also_o manifest_a contempt_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n there_o but_o not_o any_o for_o inconformity_n in_o church_n discipline_n answer_v to_o chap._n ii_o he_o say_v art_n 1._o 2._o that_o
how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o both_o these_o part_n shall_v be_v true_a can_v new-england_n church_n count_v the_o same_o man_n at_o the_o same_o time_n to_o be_v true_a christian_n and_o yet_o profane_a and_o wicked_a see_v what_o a_o story_n this_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o be_v thus_o full_a of_o contradiction_n to_o itself_o and_o in_o no_o small_a and_o trivial_a thing_n but_o in_o the_o great_a point_n of_o our_o church_n discipline_n he_o say_v again_o art_n 4._o 5._o that_o we_o say_v that_o the_o sacrament_n and_o some_o other_o church_n ordinance_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v and_o do_v belong_v only_o to_o the_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n and_o not_o to_o the_o member_n of_o any_o other_o church_n he_o speak_v flat_o contrary_a to_o this_o cap._n 10._o art_n 1._o in_o these_o word_n answ_n we_o grant_v that_o several_a church_n have_v a_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o some_o church-ordinance_n as_o sacrament_n how_o can_v both_o be_v true_a they_o hold_v and_o they_o hold_v not_o they_o do_v &_o they_o do_v not_o speak_v still_o of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n general_o without_o the_o least_o restraint_n or_o distinction_n yea_o as_o if_o he_o have_v study_v to_o make_v his_o contradiction_n full_a he_o express_o and_o in_o both_o part_n of_o it_o mention_v the_o sacrament_n that_o we_o deny_v communion_n in_o special_a in_o sacrament_n and_o we_o grant_v a_o communion_n in_o special_a in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o again_o this_o communion_n say_v he_o be_v neither_o betwixt_o minister_n nor_o member_n and_o this_o communion_n be_v both_o betwixt_o minister_n and_o member_n and_o both_o of_o they_o within_o a_o leaf_n one_o of_o the_o other_o in_o his_o book_n w._n r._n himself_o must_v of_o necessity_n grant_v one_o of_o these_o three_o thing_n either_o 1_o a_o manifest_a contradiction_n by_o himself_o in_o a_o main_a point_n in_o his_o story_n or_o 2._o that_o his_o author_n or_o intelligence_n have_v write_v or_o speak_v contrary_a concern_v our_o way_n and_o so_o a_o man_n will_v think_v he_o have_v little_a ground_n in_o conscience_n to_o build_v his_o narration_n upon_o their_o testimony_n or_o three_o that_o have_v abuse_v they_o at_o his_o pleasure_n and_o warp_v their_o word_n to_o what_o sense_n he_o listen_v all_o which_o be_v very_o ill_o in_o a_o narrator_n furthermore_o i_o here_o confident_o avouch_v and_o shall_v make_v it_o good_a that_o those_o print_a writer_n by_o he_o cite_v be_v all_o consistent_a to_o themselves_o in_o this_o point_n of_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n to_o member_n of_o other_o church_n and_o not_o one_o of_o they_o cross_v another_o or_o himself_o therefore_o i_o must_v again_o but_o with_o grief_n of_o heart_n to_o lay_v such_o load_n on_o a_o brother_n lay_v this_o deal_n upon_o he_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o all_o that_o have_v be_v mislead_v by_o his_o narration_n nay_o i_o will_v say_v more_o if_o i_o can_v not_o prove_v plain_o that_o these_o author_n cite_v do_v not_o only_o not_o justify_v he_o but_o write_v pointblank_o against_o he_o i_o will_v bear_v the_o blame_n vid._n ans_fw-fr 9_o pos_fw-la 62._o we_o do_v not_o say_v they_o appropriate_v the_o seal_n only_o to_o member_n of_o our_o own_o church_n exclude_v all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o cot._n cat._n p._n 7._o the_o supper_n say_v he_o be_v dispense_v to_o the_o faithful_a of_o the_o same_o body_n or_o recommend_v to_o they_o by_o a_o like_a body_n and_o ans_fw-fr to_o 9_o pos_fw-la 78._o in_o these_o word_n the_o member_n of_o other_o church_n do_v mutual_o communicate_v at_o each_o other_o church_n even_o as_o often_o as_o god_n providence_n lead_v they_o and_o they_o desire_v it_o last_o if_o all_o this_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o open_v his_o abuse_v we_o &_o the_o truth_n i_o will_v go_v further_a to_o show_v you_o that_o he_o still_o cite_v the_o very_a same_o author_n to_o prove_v both_o part_n of_o this_o contradiction_n and_o this_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n but_o frequent_a with_o he_o for_o in_o cap._n 9_o art_n 1._o he_o cite_v ans_fw-fr to_o 9_o pos_fw-la 62._o to_o prove_v we_o hold_v communion_n with_o other_o church_n and_o their_o member_n and_o also_o cap._n 10._o 1._o he_o cite_v the_o same_o author_n and_o page_n for_o one_o church_n communion_n with_o another_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o herein_o art_n 5._o when_o he_o will_v prove_v the_o contrary_n i_o e._n that_o we_o hold_v no_o communion_n with_o other_o church_n member_n in_o the_o sacrament_n he_o bring_v the_o self_n same_o author_n and_o page_n for_o that_o end_n i._n e._n ans_fw-fr to_o 9_o pos_fw-la pag._n 62_o etc._n etc._n and_o thus_o he_o do_v not_o with_o that_o mention_v one_o author_n only_o but_o serve_v the_o rest_n in_o like_a manner_n as_o ans_fw-fr to_o 32._o q._n apol._n r.m._n to_o e.b._n must_v all_o come_v in_o to_o avouch_v both_o part_n of_o his_o contradiction_n the_o one_o in_o chap._n 10._o 1._o for_o communion_n the_o other_o in_o art_n 4._o 5._o of_o this_o 9_o chap._n against_o communion_n and_o this_o he_o do_v not_o this_o once_o only_o but_o in_o other_o place_n in_o this_o book_n as_o we_o have_v show_v and_o shall_v again_o and_o yet_o these_o author_n give_v he_o no_o occasion_n thereto_o but_o speak_v all_o the_o self_n same_o thing_n plain_o and_o constant_o without_o any_o variation_n he_o say_v art_n 7._o we_o hold_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v svi_fw-la juris_fw-la may_v not_o lawful_o stand_v a_o member_n of_o such_o a_o church_n in_o which_o he_o can_v enjoy_v all_o god_n ordinance_n or_o where_o any_o corruption_n be_v suffer_v but_o if_o he_o be_v join_v to_o it_o he_o must_v separate_v from_o it_o answer_n the_o narratour_n know_v in_o his_o own_o conscience_n that_o this_o be_v not_o speak_v by_o his_o cite_a author_n of_o our_o church_n in_o new-england_n but_o of_o the_o parish_n church_n in_o old-england_n nor_o of_o all_o the_o church_n in_o old-england_n but_o of_o such_o only_a 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have_v harp_v on_o this_o string_n 1._o he_o be_v for_o overture_n 2._o for_o a_o kind_n of_o n._n e._n primer_n in_o admission_n of_o member_n 3._o for_o book_n prayer_n 4._o now_o and_o that_o more_o full_o than_o before_o for_o impose_v prayer_n and_o set_a leiturgy_n whither_o he_o will_v go_v next_o i_o know_v not_o if_o god_n have_v not_o pitiful_o leave_v he_o to_o himself_o in_o this_o narration_n i_o be_o confident_a he_o will_v not_o have_v come_v thus_o far_o as_o to_o have_v use_v such_o argument_n as_o these_o that_o if_o we_o in_o new-england_n allow_v set_v form_n of_o psalm_n and_o of_o blessing_n of_o the_o people_n and_o form_n of_o church-covenant_n and_o of_o catechise_v etc._n etc._n why_o not_o as_o well_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n impose_v but_o to_o this_o have_v answer_v before_o i_o leave_v he_o to_o the_o father_n of_o truth_n to_o show_v he_o his_o error_n answer_v to_o chap._n x._o be_v 1._o he_o say_v and_o that_o true_o we_o grant_v that_o several_a church_n have_v a_o communion_n among_o themselves_o whereby_o they_o do_v and_o may_v partake_v with_o each_o other_o in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o contradiction_n between_o this_o and_z and_z chap._n 9_o art_n 4_o 5._o answ_n it_o be_v speak_v to_o already_o only_o here_o note_v 1_o the_o fullness_n of_o affirmation_n in_o this_o art_n for_o our_o communion_n with_o other_o church_n in_o the_o sacrament_n we_o have_v say_v he_o a_o communion_n among_o ourselves_o 2_o in_o the_o sacrament_n in_o special_a 3_o with_o several_a church_n 4_o we_o do_v and_o may_v partake_v 5_o each_o with_o other_o 6_o mutual_o 7_o and_o this_o both_o betwixt_o minister_n and_o people_n &_o 8_o we_o not_o only_o practice_v this_o but_o grant_v
it_o be_v not_o true_a we_o hold_v no_o such_o thing_n 2._o the_o proof_n he_o bring_v no_o whit_n reach_v it_o 3._o it_o be_v direct_o against_o his_o own_o author_n he_o build_v upon_o answer_n to_o 32._o q._n p._n 57_o the_o calling_n say_v he_o of_o assembly_n and_o dismiss_v they_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o prayer_n administer_a the_o seal_n permit_v to_o speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n enjoin_v silence_n vote_v of_o matter_n pronounce_v of_o censure_n etc._n etc._n these_o be_v act_n which_o the_o presbyter_n may_v do_v and_o no_o other_o member_n 4._o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o himself_o chap._n 6._o art_n 8._o where_o he_o set_v down_o the_o several_a act_n which_o he_o himself_o say_v we_o ascent_n unto_o our_o officer_n art_n 10._o he_o say_v that_o if_o a_o minister_n who_o lay_v down_o his_o ministry_n upon_o just_a ground_n he_o be_v now_o become_v as_o a_o mere_a private_a man_n answ_n whereas_o he_o be_v look_v on_o and_o reverence_v as_o a_o worthy_a instrument_n of_o christ_n a_o man_n of_o gift_n &_o part_n one_o that_o have_v honour_v god_n in_o his_o house_n and_o may_v do_v it_o again_o and_o in_o mean_a time_n be_v employ_v in_o dispense_n his_o gift_n etc._n etc._n be_v this_o to_o be_v as_o a_o mere_a private_a man_n but_o he_o be_v not_o able_a to_o speak_v without_o disparage_v to_o art_n 12._o that_o the_o end_n of_o our_o ministry_n be_v only_o the_o build_n up_o of_o man_n already_o convert_v as_o suppose_v our_o member_n be_v all_o real_a saint_n already_o nor_o be_v we_o bind_v by_o our_o office_n to_o attend_v to_o conversion_n of_o soul_n and_o if_o any_o be_v convert_v by_o we_o it_o be_v accidental_a answer_n he_o strange_o forget_v himself_o for_o 1_o we_o say_v not_o that_o all_o our_o member_n be_v certain_o real_a saint_n but_o only_o visible_o so_o there_o may_v be_v some_o hypocrite_n among_o they_o probable_o that_o may_v need_v conversion_n and_o therefore_o by_o our_o office_n we_o be_v to_o attend_v that_o work_n as_o far_o as_o the_o need_v of_o the_o stock_n shall_v appear_v 2_o the_o child_n of_o our_o member_n the_o charge_n of_o who_o our_o minister_n undertake_v even_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o office_n be_v not_o yet_o haply_o convert_v and_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o fulfil_v his_o office_n towards_o they_o as_o for_o the_o author_n cite_v to_o prove_v this_o art_n ans_fw-fr to_o 32._o q._n 80._o 81._o he_o offord_v he_o not_o one_o title_n towards_o it_o therefore_o i_o look_v upon_o this_o art_n as_o a_o devise_a thing_n of_o his_o own_o as_o a_o great_a part_n of_o his_o book_n be_v from_o this_o art_n thus_o mistake_v he_o draw_v many_o invective_n conclusion_n against_o we_o in_o a_o long_a marg._n but_o to_o no_o purpose_n at_o all_o for_o the_o ground_n sink_v the_o building_n fall_v and_o thus_o he_o shoot_v at_o his_o own_o shadow_n ☞_o ☞_o so_o still_o he_o keep_v his_o old_a custom_n 1_o frame_n a_o false_a art_n of_o his_o own_o as_o if_o it_o be_v ou●s_n 2_o than_o pretend_v a_o proof_n which_o be_v none_o 3_o then_o fall_v out_o with_o we_o for_o hold_v such_o absurdity_n 4_o last_o draw_v his_o inference_n from_o his_o own_o premise_n this_o be_v his_o deal_n all_o along_o his_o book_n and_o then_o to_o make_v all_o up_o he_o fall_v a_o tax_v some_o brethren_n of_o that_o way_n here_o for_o two_o thing_n 1_o for_o neglect_v to_o build_v up_o their_o own_o church_n at_o home_n whereas_o he_o shall_v first_o have_v prove_v that_o they_o have_v not_o a_o call_v to_o be_v absent_a for_o a_o time_n for_o their_o church_n good_a and_o with_o their_o consent_n 2._o for_o labour_v to_o convert_v other_o here_o not_o so_o much_o to_o grace_v say_v he_o as_o to_o our_o church-covenant_n but_o let_v our_o own_o sermon_n preach_v not_o in_o corner_n but_o in_o the_o face_n of_o thousand_o testify_v for_o we_o before_o god_n and_o man_n what_o the_o scope_n of_o our_o preach_n have_v be_v and_o be_v he_o tell_v we_o art_n 14._o first_o that_o the_o minister_n in_o new-england_n be_v maintain_v by_o the_o people_n volutary_a contribution_n 2._o that_o this_o be_v cast_v in_o according_a to_o their_o weekly_a gain_n 3_o and_o distribute_v to_o they_o according_a as_o the_o deacon_n think_v fit_a here_o be_v three_o particular_n affirm_v and_o hardly_o any_o one_o of_o they_o true_a ans_fw-fr for_o 1_o this_o weekly_a contribution_n be_v proper_o intend_v for_o the_o poor_a according_a to_o 1_o cor._n 16_o 1._o yet_o so_o as_o if_o there_o be_v much_o give_v in_o some_o church_n do_v though_o other_o do_v not_o appoint_v the_o over_o plus_fw-la towards_o the_o minister_n maintenance_n 2_o this_o be_v not_o give_v in_o by_o the_o peoplee_n according_a to_o their_o weekly_a gain_n for_o that_o be_v a_o addition_n of_o his_o own_o but_o as_o god_n have_v blessed_v they_o with_o a_o estate_n in_o the_o general_a for_o suppose_v a_o member_n that_o be_v rich_a though_o he_o have_v not_o gain_v but_o lose_v the_o week_n last_o pass_v yet_o he_o contribute_v on_o the_o lord_n day_n follow_v 3_o nor_o be_v this_o dispense_v to_o the_o minister_n in_o those_o church_n where_o any_o part_n of_o it_o be_v so_o give_v though_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o deacon_n yet_o not_o for_o proportion_n as_o they_o please_v for_o this_o be_v to_o set_v the_o deacon_n above_o the_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n but_o by_o the_o church_n who_o usual_o twice_o in_o the_o year_n or_o often_o do_v meet_v to_o consult_v and_o determine_v of_o the_o sum_n to_o be_v allow_v for_o that_o year_n to_o their_o minister_n and_o to_o raise_v it_o either_o from_o the_o church_n treasury_n so_o much_o of_o it_o as_o there_o be_v to_o be_v have_v or_o by_o a_o contribution_n to_o be_v then_o make_v on_o purpose_n 8._o and_o for_o one_o proof_n of_o all_o those_o he_o bring_v ans_fw-fr to_o 32._o q._n 77._o wherein_o be_v nothing_o to_o prove_v any_o one_o of_o the_o particular_n mention_v but_o something_n rather_o against_o he_o for_o there_o it_o be_v say_v 1_o that_o our_o minister_n maintenance_n must_v be_v honourable_a for_o his_o person_n charge_n and_o for_o hospitality_n 2._o not_o as_o alm_n and_o courtesy_n but_o as_o debt_n and_o duty_n and_o to_o be_v pay_v according_a to_o rule_n of_o justice_n etc._n etc._n 3_o but_o for_o a_o way_n of_o settle_a and_o stint_a maintenance_n there_o be_v nothing_o do_v that_o may_v mark_v this_o except_o from_o year_n to_o year_n do_v but_o compare_v these_o word_n with_o his_o narration_n now_o upon_o these_o premise_n unfound_o lay_v he_o build_v many_o clamorous_a construction_n in_o his_o marg._n which_o of_o themselves_o must_v needs_o fall_v with_o the_o ruin_n of_o their_o foundation_n without_o any_o trouble_n of_o i_o then_o he_o fall_v upon_o some_o of_o we_o in_o particular_a whosoever_o they_o be_v for_o strict_a require_v of_o so_o much_o set_v stipend_n for_o their_o lecture_n or_o else_o they_o will_v not_o preach_v 1._o i_o must_v here_o profess_v solemn_o as_o in_o the_o fight_n of_o god_n for_o my_o part_n answ_n i_o know_v not_o any_o one_o of_o we_o that_o do_v so_o but_o sure_a i_o be_o i_o know_v some_o of_o the_o contrary_a practice_n who_o neither_o stand_v compound_v at_o all_o much_o less_o strict_o as_o he_o say_v require_v so_o much_o and_o so_o much_o least_o of_o all_o refuse_v to_o preach_v when_o such_o sum_n of_o the_o people_n own_o voluntary_a proffer_v lie_n unperformed_a but_o yet_o notwithstanding_o go_v on_o as_o painful_o and_o constant_o in_o their_o preach_n to_o they_o as_o before_z 2._o let_v i_o ask_v he_o one_o question_n for_o it_o be_v the_o three_o time_n he_o have_v be_v harp_v on_o this_o string_n that_o if_o he_o on_o good_a ground_n know_v any_o to_o do_v otherwise_o be_v it_o not_o a_o better_a way_n more_o love_a and_o suitable_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christian_n admonition_n in_o personal_a fail_n to_o deal_v private_o and_o particular_o with_o such_o brethren_n for_o there_o be_v but_o very_o few_o of_o they_o here_o and_o it_o be_v easy_o do_v then_o in_o stead_n of_o tell_v themselves_o to_o print_v it_o to_o the_o world_n to_o their_o discredit_n but_o if_o he_o indeed_o know_v none_o as_o i_o very_o believe_v he_o do_v not_o but_o go_v upon_o surmise_n and_o so_o cast_v imputation_n upon_o they_o unground_o the_o sin_n be_v the_o great_a and_o god_n i_o hope_v will_v find_v a_o time_n in_o mercy_n to_o deal_v with_o his_o conscience_n about_o it_o he_o hold_v still_o his_o old_a course_n 1._o a_o false_a article_n 2._o pretend_a proof_n 3._o inference_n at_o pleasure_n 4_o invective_n against_o we_o his_o arrow_n be_v shoot_v against_o a_o brazen_a
art_n 10._o ●sw_n ●sw_n consider_v first_o 1_o the_o gift_n grace_n and_o ability_n of_o discern_v that_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n above_o any_o minister_n now_o live_v who_o as_o they_o be_v able_a to_o preach_v with_o less_o time_n of_o study_n so_o to_o dispatch_v and_o turn_v over_o weighty_a business_n with_o more_o speed_n and_o dexterity_n than_o we_o be_v 2_o the_o extraordinary_a wonderful_a and_o visible_a stroke_n of_o god_n upon_o the_o spirit_n and_o heart_n of_o man_n that_o hear_v peter_n at_o that_o time_n the_o meeting_n the_o language_n their_o understanding_n of_o it_o god_n assistance_n of_o peter_n and_o blessing_n on_o the_o word_n all_o extraordinary_a such_o a_o day_n such_o a_o sermon_n such_o effect_n as_o never_o be_v before_o nor_o like_v to_o be_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n so_o the_o power_n of_o god_n be_v remarkable_a in_o their_o conversion_n so_o also_o in_o their_o expression_n and_o demonstration_n of_o it_o so_o that_o there_o need_v little_a trial_n when_o god_n speak_v himself_o from_o heaven_n answer_v to_o chap._n vi_o he_o report_v to_o recite_v such_o thing_n only_o as_o most_o need_v answer_n and_o let_v the_o rest_n pass_v art_n 1._o 2._o that_o we_o hold_v that_o christ_n have_v invest_v with_o all_o power_n any_o that_o be_v in_o church-fellowship_n that_o though_o they_o be_v all_o illiterate_a yet_o they_o may_v make_v &_o examine_v all_o their_o officer_n &_o unmake_v &_o depose_v they_o when_o they_o see_v cause_n so_o to_o do_v and_o preach_v expound_v and_o apply_v the_o word_n with_o all_o authority_n yea_o and_o do_v it_o without_o any_o reference_n at_o all_o to_o their_o officer_n as_o officer_n when_o they_o have_v they_o ●nsw_n ●nsw_n if_o i_o do_v delight_n in_o retort_v i_o can_v say_v of_o these_o word_n as_o he_o of_o holland_n minister_n apology_n they_o be_v a_o mere_a gull_n for_o almost_o so_o many_o word_n so_o many_o mistake_n the_o narratour_n shall_v have_v do_v well_o first_o to_o have_v prove_v all_o the_o church_n and_o minister_n in_o new-england_n man_n out_o of_o their_o wit_n and_o void_a of_o common_a sense_n and_o then_o he_o may_v more_o easy_o have_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v they_o hold_v and_o practice_v such_o a_o congery_n of_o absurdity_n and_o impossibility_n for_o else_o many_o of_o they_o there_o be_v well_o know_v to_o be_v learn_v godly_a and_o sober_a man_n no_o wise_a man_n will_v believe_v he_o that_o they_o can_v hold_v that_o 1._o illiterate_a man_n can_v examine_v pastor_n fitness_n 2._o depose_v they_o at_o pleasure_n 3._o prithee_o expound_v and_o apply_v the_o word_n with_o all_o authority_n 4._o and_o that_o without_o any_o reference_n to_o their_o officer_n at_o all_o 5._o and_o which_o be_v m●st_o strange_a that_o christ_n himself_o have_v invest_v these_o illiterate_a one_o with_o all_o power_n to_o do_v all_o these_o thing_n for_o 1._o it_o be_v a_o receive_a practice_n among_o we_o that_o when_o any_o combine_v into_o a_o church_n there_o be_v one_o at_o least_o of_o they_o endue_v with_o able_a part_n of_o humane_a and_o divine_a learning_n that_o either_o have_v be_v a_o minister_n in_o our_o native_a country_n or_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v one_o among_o they_o who_o usual_o and_o frequent_o preach_v to_o they_o after_o they_o be_v unite_v so_o that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v not_o man_n illiterate_a ☜_o ☜_o and_o w._n r._n himself_o know_v this_o to_o be_v true_a for_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o 32._o quest_n 42._o which_o be_v very_a page_n he_o here_o quote_v direct_o say_v this_o in_o so_o many_o word_n 2._o that_o those_o illiterate_a man_n do_v examine_v their_o minister_n ability_n and_o that_o we_o hold_v they_o ought_v be_v another_o great_a mistake_n for_o so_o we_o shall_v put_v man_n upon_o a_o work_n beyond_o their_o reach_n which_o be_v idle_a whereas_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o if_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o such_o man_n as_o they_o intend_v to_o call_v into_o office_n be_v not_o well_o know_v to_o they_o they_o use_v to_o call_v in_o the_o help_n and_o assistance_n of_o elder_n in_o other_o church_n to_o survey_v their_o ability_n and_o to_o inform_v they_o therein_o that_o thereby_o as_o well_o as_o by_o their_o own_o experience_n of_o they_o and_o discern_v of_o their_o gift_n they_o may_v be_v able_a to_o give_v in_o their_o suffrage_n for_o election_n when_o the_o time_n come_v 3._o for_o their_o unmaking_n and_o depose_v they_o again_o when_o they_o see_v cause_n we_o hold_v and_o profess_v it_o a_o thing_n most_o injurious_a to_o jesus_n christ_n himself_o in_o heaven_n &_o to_o his_o minister_n on_o earth_n and_o such_o a_o thing_n as_o not_o only_a christ_n will_v summon_v church_n at_o the_o great_a day_n to_o answer_v unto_o but_o our_o church_n there_o will_v also_o expect_v satisfaction_n from_o they_o for_o it_o if_o they_o shall_v thus_o depose_v minister_n as_o he_o say_v when_o they_o see_v cause_n unless_o christ_n himself_o shall_v see_v good_a cause_n to_o allow_v their_o fact_n to_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o his_o own_o word_n we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o hold_v this_o that_o we_o protest_v against_o such_o practice_n and_o to_o show_v how_o wary_a we_o be_v in_o this_o point_n no_o church_n dare_v trust_v she_o own_o judgement_n but_o our_o manner_n be_v as_o his_o quote_v author_n speak_v answer_v to_o 34._o q._n of_o p._n 41._o our_o practice_n be_v in_o removal_n of_o minister_n to_o have_v counsel_n and_o assistance_n from_o sister_n church_n 4._o whereas_o he_o say_v also_o that_o we_o hold_v that_o man_n illiterate_a shall_v preach_v with_o all_o authority_n which_o be_v a_o work_n and_o a_o task_n for_o the_o able_a minister_n to_o perform_v be_v as_o far_o from_o we_o as_o any_o of_o the_o other_o for_o though_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o in_o some_o case_n some_o able_a judicious_a experience_a christian_n may_v humble_o &_o sober_o when_o necessity_n require_v as_o in_o the_o want_n of_o minister_n &_o be_v invite_v thereunto_o dispense_v now_o and_o then_o a_o word_n of_o exhortation_n to_o their_o brethren_n this_o be_v far_o enough_o from_o preach_v in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n with_o all_o authority_n which_o be_v word_n of_o his_o own_o put_v in_o without_o any_o ground_n 5._o but_o for_o he_o to_o add_v that_o we_o hold_v they_o may_v thus_o preach_v when_o they_o have_v officer_n and_o that_o without_o any_o reference_n at_o all_o to_o they_o be_v extreme_o contrary_a to_o our_o practice_n and_o further_a from_o the_o truth_n for_o this_o will_v direct_o cross_v christ_n his_o institution_n of_o call_v officer_n in_o his_o church_n and_o make_v mere_a cypher_n of_o they_o who_o office_n it_o be_v not_o only_o to_o preach_v but_o to_o rule_v and_o govern_v the_o assembly_n to_o open_v the_o door_n of_o speech_n to_o any_o in_o the_o congregation_n and_o to_o shut_v it_o up_o by_o silence_n so_o that_o none_o may_v so_o much_o as_o speak_v without_o his_o allowance_n ☞_o ☞_o and_o this_o expression_n of_o he_o be_v contrary_a to_o his_o own_o narration_n in_o art_n 8._o where_o he_o say_v that_o some_o of_o the_o act_n we_o ascribe_v to_o our_o minister_n in_o office_n be_v to_o declare_v unto_o their_o people_n the_o mind_n of_o god_n and_o to_o moderate_v in_o church-meeting_n yet_o here_o he_o speak_v clean_o contrary_a to_o himself_o and_o the_o truth_n also_o ☞_o ☞_o 6._o for_o he_o to_o add_v that_o we_o hold_v that_o christ_n have_v invest_v these_o illiterate_a man_n with_o all_o power_n to_o do_v all_o these_o thing_n so_o far_o beyond_o their_o power_n and_o all_o ordinary_a possibility_n contrary_a to_o all_o rule_n and_o to_o his_o own_o institution_n be_v to_o put_v upon_o we_o one_o of_o the_o gross_a absurdity_n that_o ever_o be_v hear_v of_o even_o to_o make_v christ_n cross_v himself_o and_o to_o be_v a_o patron_n of_o confusion_n in_o his_o own_o house_n by_o invest_v they_o with_o all_o power_n to_o oppose_v his_o own_o rule_n of_o order_n now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o ground_n our_o nartatour_n have_v to_o lay_v all_o these_o charge_n against_o we_o you_o will_v think_v sure_a his_o proof_n be_v strong_a or_o he_o will_v never_o have_v venture_v to_o blemish_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o god_n faithful_a i_o servant_n in_o such_o sore_a accusation_n as_o these_o true_a he_o quote_v many_o and_o that_o i_o may_v see_v his_o bottom_n i_o have_v survey_v all_o the_o print_a author_n in_o every_o page_n quote_v ☞_o ☞_o and_o i_o solemn_o profess_v it_o that_o none_o of_o these_o particular_n rehearse_v as_o he_o have_v lay_v they_o down_o much_o less_o in_o they_o all_o will_v any_o of_o they_o bear_v he_o out_o and_o i_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o try_v whether_o