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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67158	Country conversations being an account of some discourses that happen'd in a visit to the country last summer, on divers subjects : chiefly of the modern comedies, of drinking, of translated verse, of painting and painters, of poets and poetry.	Wright, James, 1643-1713.	1694 (1694)	Wing W3693; ESTC R38767	29,396	96

and said he liked the Witty Evasion of the Authors Sence Others who were Brothers of the Bottle were Lavish in their Commendation and that they might never forget so useful a piece of Poetry they Writ it down in their Table Books One of the Company an Old Cavalier of Gray Age but of a Wit and Judgment as Vigorous as ever said Belamy's Shift puts me in mind of an Evasion that was made somewhat to better purpose many years ago in the time of Oliver's Rebellion The Parlimentarian Party were very apt to Argue the Righteousness of their Cause from the Success saying that God owned his People and manifested the Justice of their Undertakings by the many Victories which he gave them and a great deal of Cant to that purpose One of that side who pretended to Learning said the Notion was acknowledged in all Ages which made Lucan Write Victrix Causa Diis placuit A Royalist then present of a Wit as far Superiour to his as his Principles were better Replyed Consider the whole Verse together and it makes against you Victrix Causa Diis placuit sed Victa Catoni Now all History tells us of what Eminent Virtues and how excellent a Man That Cato was and we are still better inform'd from the Holy Scripture that the Heathen Gods were Devils Omnes Dii gentium Daemonia Psal 95. v. 5. The plain English therefore of that Verse in Lucan is no more than this Devils the Conquering Cause like best But Divine Cato the Opprest This Translation says Julio would certainly have pleas'd Father Bouhours who in all probability would have prefer'd it to the Latine since in the very beginning of his Man ere de bien penser he falls foul on Lucan for representing in that place a Mortal Man to be of a better Character for Justice and Compassion than the Gods contrary to the Universally received Notions of a Deity Hereupon they fell into a long Discourse of Translated Verse Lisander affirm'd that none can be properly said to Translate well unless he improves the Author's Thought or at least meliorates the Expression in English beyond what it is in Latine which rarely happens unless it be from one who has great Judgment in both Languages And for this reason the Translation of Latine Poetry Verbally into English Prose or bad Verse which is worse is Dull and Flat tho' never so good in the Original because it wants the Delicacy of Expression and the Harmony of Measure and Cadence which belongs to true Poesie Julio acknowledged what Lisander said to be undoubted Truth and observed further that the Poets of this Age however short they may be of some of their Predecessors in other matters yet they much excell them in the Art of Versifying I mean for easie and Genuine Expression and smooth composure of their Lines placing their Words so as may most agree with the usual way of speaking and not begining a Period in the middle of one Verse and ending it in the middle of the next In which particulars most if not all the Poets of the last Age were very Faulty and Ungraceful in their Writings And yet said Mitis I remember a Latine Couplet Witty enough which I think better exprest in English above 100 years ago as seems by the Measure It is a piece of an Epigram relating to a Clock The Words are these Quis teneat lento fugientia tempora nodo Cum dent celeres plumhea vincla pedes The rest I have forgot both of the Latine and English except only this Conclusion Then who with gentle tye can cause the fleeting time to stay VVhen feet which fetter'd are with Lead do post so fast away Here the thought is as full as in the Original but much more intelligibly exprest to an English Ear than if he had said That Leaden Chains give swift Feet the harshness of the Metaphor being mollified in the Translation Which is the more observable added Lisander in regard the Writers of those times do so very much superabound in uneasie Figures and hardly any thing was then admitted to be well and Scholar-like pen'd unless it were almost all Metaphor and Catachresis In the mean time says Belamy we forget our Business the Wine dies the Glass sleeps and the Butler grows Pursey for want of Exercise Away with your Poetry and Poets the best use we can make of them at present is in my opinion to Drink all their Healths from Homer down to Ben. The Extravagancy of such a Proposal made Mitis start who reply'd that to do so wou'd take up more time than he designed to spend in the Country and he question'd whether Lisander's Celler could supply them all Besides says he I must be first satisfied by a Divine whether Drinking a Health to the Deceased be not as Superstitious and Unlawful as to pray for them Well then said Belamy since we must not remember them this way let us e'en take a friendly Round or two and forget ' em Lisander proposed as a means to gratifie both Parties the Drinkers and the Wits that Mitis and Julio should at this time comply in some reasonable degree with Belamy and in return he and all the Rest of the Company should at the next Meeting produce a Specimen of Translated Verse of their own performance all which should be impartially Examined by the Rest thereby to discover if not an Example of good Translation yet at least how it should be such What Lisander mention'd was not unpleasing to any each Man in the Company undertook to perform his part according to his Talent both for Drinking and VVriting The Rest of the Evening they Sacrificed to Bacchus till the Company Parted all having enough and some too much SECT III. Of Translated Verse IT was about a fortnight or three Weeks after before all those who had undertaken this Exercise of the Muses could meet At last they happen'd together at Lisanders Who after a Noble Treat at Dinner led his Friends to his favourite Walk in the Bottom of his Park It was cut out and contrived on the Bank of a most delightsome River as well stored with all sorts of Fish as the Swans would permit the Walk was as Broad and even as the Mall and above half as long but not so strait it humouring the Meanders of the Stream The whole length of the Walk was skirted on the one Hand with a Wood continually full of Nightingales Throstles Stockdoves and such Silvan Musick the outward Branches of which were so Luxuriant that they spred themselves with little or no intermission as a Natural Canopy from one end of the Walk to the other On the other side opposite to the Wood ran along a most sweet and clear River and beyond that lay such a Beautious Prospect of Meadows so deckt at that time with Primroses Daisies and other such like wild Gayities of the forward Spring as if Nature had defied the most skilful Jeweller to shew a

pleasanter Enamel Lisander had contrived on the Wood side of this Walk several Seats and Resting places but one more especial about the Middle It was a kind of small Summer House Placed opposite to a Visto that for Eight or Ten Miles forward cut through all the delightful Objects that fancy can desire in the most pleasing Landskip Here it was that Lisander having seated the Company remember'd them of the Translated Essays they had all promised and because he was the Promoter of the Undertaking himself first began with Repeating these Lines out of the Sixth Book of Virgils Aeneads Excudent alii spirantia mollius aera Credo equidem vivos ducant è marmore Vultus Orabunt Causas melius caelique meatus Describent radio surgentia sidera dicent Tu regere imperio populos Romane memento Hae tibi erunt artes pacisque imponere morem Parcere Subjectis debellare superbos Which said he I have ventured to render thus in English Some may in Sculpture sweeter Touches give And by their Skill make the Cold Marble live Some better may defend their Clyent 's Cause Some in Astronomy gain more Applause To Rule O Roman shall thy Science be These are the Proper Arts of Majesty How in soft Peace their Subjects to dispose And how with Steel to manage Rebel Foes Mitis began to Applaud the Translation when Lisander cut him short saying that he did not propose these Essays for Applause either to himself or others but on the contrary to occasion handsom Exceptions and discoveries not of Beauties but Defects and Blemishes which he knows the Company can make in Order thereby to teach one how to write Correctly And I am of Opinion continued he that no Man can be said truly to write well unless he can find Fault well For Faults like Diseases when perfectly discover'd are half Cured Hereupon Julio said I tell you frankly then Lisander I shou'd not like your Expression in the second Line Make the cold Marble live as too bold and extravagant were it not Justified in the Original by spirantia aera and Vivos Vultus But there is a real Fault or rather Defect in your Translation for which I can Frame no manner of excuse You have omitted Parcere Subjectis which seems to me to be the most material Part of the Character which Virgil here gives of an excellent Prince or Governor Mercy and Forbearance are Attributes of the Deity and nothing can be more Great and Godlike in a Ruler Therefore Debellare Superbos and not parcere Subjectis at the same time as it is but half the Advice of Anchises to Aeneas or under that Fiction of Virgil to Augustus so it is but half the sense of your Author Lisander acknowledged the Truth of what Julio said and thank'd him for expressing his free Thought Belamy happen'd to sit next to Lisander and was therefore as next in Order requested to produce something or other that he had fancied since the last Meeting I profess replyed he briskly I have not of late met any thing more agreeable to my Humour than an Old Chanson a boire in one of Molier's Comedies Buuons chers Amis buvons Le temps qui fuit nous y convie Profitons de la vie Autant que nous pouvons Quand on a passé l'onde noire Adieu le bon Vin nos amours Depeschons-nous de Boire On ne boit pas toûjours Laisons Raisonner les Sots Sur le vray bon heur de la vie Nostre Philosophie Le met parmy les Pots Les biens le Scavoir la Gloire N'ostent point les soucis fascheux Et ce n'est qu'a bien boire Que l'on peut estre heureux Which I thus English Drink my Friends and use your time While easie Life is in its Prime E're our Drinking days are past Sullen Age comes on apace And Death will all our Joys deface Drinking cannot always last Drink my Friends while Fools dispute Of what is Life's most Happy Fruit All their Arguments are Cheat. Fair Estates and Fame more fair Cou'd never yet extinguish Care Drinking only does the Feat A Chanson a Boire said Mitis is of so slight a Nature that it can hardly afford either matter or words substantial enough to bear an exception things of this kind are supposed to be writ as it were extempore o're a Glass of Wine with little or no Consideration and therefore have all the Grains of allowance that can possibly be given And for that reason I cannot in this tho in an other sort of Poem I should disapprove the last Words does the Feat as a low and abject Phrase Yet said Julio if a Word be used improperly or in a sense that it will not bear it may be justly condemn'd for example in the first Stanza Death will all our Joys Deface Deface is a word that relates properly to Objects of the Sight as to Deface a Writing a Monument a Picture c. Now Joys are Notional and may be said to be Defeated Destroyed or Determined but as I conceive not properly to be Defaced no more than to deface ones pleasure or deface a Jest or fit of Laughter After all added Lisander I think his English to be better than the French Original as including the Authors sense in less Compass and fewer Idle Words Here Charleson for that was the Name of the Old Cavalier former●y mention'd recited the beginning of that Famous Ode in the 3 d Book of Horace which said he we that suffer'd in the times of Rebellion and Anarchy did sometimes use to apply to our selves by way of Incouragement Justum tenacem propositi Virum Non civium ardor prava jubentium Non vultus instantis Tyranni Mente quatit solida neque Auster Dux inquieti turbidus Adriae Nec fulminantis magna Jovis manus Si fractus illabatur Orbis Impavidum ferient Ruinae I shall give ye occasion enough of Exception continued he when I tell you my English The Just and constant Man is ne're cast down By the Mob's Fury or a Tyrants Frown Nor Winds nor Waves nor Thunder can Or Shake or Startle such a Man Nay shou'd the very Heavens Fall And a New Chaos swallow all Well settled in his Mind he 'd stand upright Nor cou'd the Universal Ruin Fright This Translation said Lisander has fully and handsomly exprest the Sense of the Latine but not after the Poetical Phrase of the Author And tho' Nor Winds nor Waves nor Thunder gives us the true signification and meaning of Neque Auster Dux turbidus Adriae nec Jovis Manus Yet in my Opinion a Translator must not neglect those Figurative ways of speaking for if so we should loose the Intelligence of the Old received Fictions without which we can never perfectly understand all the Beauties of the Latine Poets I cannot approve said Julio of the word Mob in these Verses which tho significant enough yet it is a word but of Late Use and

not sufficiently Naturalized to appear in a serious Poem Besides I esteem it a kind of Burlesque word and unsutable to the Dignity of Horace There is an other word said Mitis which I cannot pass without a Remark and that is the Particle Nay which I know is of Common use in Prose to highten and aggravate the Subject of Discourse but I cannot think it graceful in Verse as a too familiar and slight way of speaking 'T is without all question there are some words which are allowable in Prose but not in a Poem such as the word Lad which the Great Cowley tells in the Notes on his Davideis is not proper to be Read in an Heroick Poem and therefore uses the Word Boy instead of it and yet the word Lad is prefer'd in the English Translation of the Scriptures from whence he takes the Argument and Foundation of his Work After this it came in Course to a Gentleman whose Name I have forgot to produce his Specimen he told the Company that he had lately happen'd upon a French Epigram of a New and surprising Turn the manner of the Poets expressing his Design in the Close pleas'd me so well said he that I cou'd not forbear trying how the Thought wou'd shew in English It is an Address to Cardinal Richelieu form'd in such an Air that in my mind it is the neatest or if you will the gentilest way of begging a great Man's favour not without something like Reproach for neglect that ever I met with The French is this Armand l'aage afioiblit mes yeux Et tout ma chaleur me quitte Je verray bien tost mes ayeux Sur le rivage du Cocyte Je seray bientost des suivans De ce bon Monarque de France Qui fut le Pere des scavans En un seicle pleine d'ignorance Lors que j'approcheray de luy Il voudra que Je lui raconte Tout ce que tu fais aujourduy Pour combler l'Espagne de honte Je contenteray son desir Et par le recit de ta vie Je charmeray le déplaisir Qu'il receut au Champ de Pavie Mais s'il demande en quel employ Tu m'as tenu dedans le monde Et quel bien j'ay receu de toy Que veux-tu que je luy reponde And my English this Old Age begins to call I soon must go To my last home in the Dark World below Where busie Souls will Crowd some News to know There I shall tell Armand of your Renown The Voice of every Country every Town What Wonders you have done to serve the Crown How Wise how Great in every god like Deed How bountiful you are to all that need But most where Learning speaks or Merits plead When they shall ask as ten to one some may What you have done for me tell me I pray Illustrious Sir what wou'd you have me say Believe me Sir said Lisander you have hansomly and well exprest the Authors Turn of Thought in the Conclusion but I must needs say you have so little observed the Authors Expressions in all that goes before that in my Opinion this cannot properly be called a Translation but rather some Verses writ in imitation of the French You have well Paraphrased the Author's meaning in the main but certainly as a good Translation ought not on the one hand to be Literal or Verbal without a due Liberty to the property of Expression in our Language so on the the other it must not be a meer Paraphrase on the Author 's General Design without any respect to his form of expression Julio added that he could wish the word what had not been twice used so close together in the two last Lines What you have and what wou'd you for besides that correct Writers forbear to repeat the same words near the place where they have been used already unless the Enargy of the sense does absolutely require it the word what is harsh and unpleasant in the English Tongue as the word Car in the French which Monsieur de Gomberville one of those Select Wits who composed the French Academy rejected as offensive and fitter for a Disputation than a Romance or Poem and brag'd that he had not at all made use of that word in composing the five Volumes of Polexander After this Mitis produced Mr. Cowleys Epitaph in Westminster Abby render'd by him into English Aurea dum uolitant latè tua scripta per orbem Et famâ aeternùm vivis divine Poeta Hic placidâ jaceas requie Custodiant urnam Cana fides vigilcntque perenni lampade Musae Sit sacer iste locus nec quis temerarius ausit Sacrilega turbare man● venerabile Bustum Intacti maneant maneant per secula dulcis Couleii ●ineres serventque immobile Saxum Immortal in his Fame which daily Flies About the Globe here Divine Cowley lies His Urne inviolate all Ages keep Here let the Muses ever Watch and Weep For ever Holy let this place remain Untrod by Sacrilegious and Prophane Eternal Peace Sweet Cowley guard and may His Name preserve this Marble from decay Belamy who had been silent a long while this dry Discourse being insipid to him cou'd not now forbear observing to Mitis his Old Antagonist that in his Opinion he has taken too great a Liberty in the beginning of his Version the Latine mentioning Cowley in the second Person which he has vary'd in the English to the third contrary as he thinks to the Rules of a True and Just Translation Julio said that his addition of the Word weep tho' i● does really improve the sense yet being placed unluckily at the end of the Line looks as if it was taken in only for the Rhime sake Lisander observed that the Conclusion of this Epitaph especially as Mitis has exprest it in English has much the like thought with that composed for Michael Drayton whose Monument is very little distant from Mr. Cowley's and that the sense of their Epitaphs in this particular is almost as near as their Graves for thus the Composer of Mr. Drayton's Epitaph is supposed to speak to the Marble that covers him And when thy Ruins shall disclaim To be the Treasury of his Name His Name that cannot dye shall be An Everlasting Monument to thee Here Julio was call'd upon to produce his Essay of Translation He said he had lately chopt upon some Latine Verses which he found written before a Burtons Melancholy the Author of which Book assumed the Name of Democritus Junior Heraclite fleas misero sic convenit Aevo Nil nisi triste vides nil nisi Turpe vides Tu ride quantumque lubet Democrite ride Non nisi vana vides non nisi stulta vides Is fletu hic risu modo gaudeant unus utrique Sit licet usque Labor sit licet usque Dolor Nunc opus est nam totus eheu jam desipit Orbis Mille Heraclitis milleque Democritis Nunc opus est tanta