this booke I met with another called Errour on the right hand The author thereof being sometimes intangled about Discipline and yet it must be confessed that many yeares he hath in print checked ours for the which we euer caried an hard hand ouer him and during such time of the entanglement about that point he trauailing into forren parts and there abiding some yeares where all sorts of factions were daily in his eies and eares he about some nine yeares since came ouer and in London continuing hath all this while conflicted with factions and not a little vexed vs. The foresaid book he now publishing it plainely euinceth that if separation bee made from the Church of England for Antichristian then will ineuitably follow an endles wandring from faction to faction These two bookes haue put me to my wits end I know not what to do and to subscribe vnto this Churches Canons and orders I cannot Once for that I am knowne in these parts to haue set my selfe against them Secondly for that I hold some of them to be repugnant vnto the word of God Could I get out of these briers I were an happy man Libert And are you so ignorant that you cannot do that within this noneth I helped a kinsman of mine out of this pit who since hath subscribed is now beneficed and yet in nothing harmed his conscience for still his opinion in priuate liueth with him and helpful he is to such as be distressed about that opinion The Apostle willeth vs to serue Kuri◠the Lord which some doe read Kair◠the time And were it not that somtimes we are to fit the time in his humour the Prophet would not haue said There is a time wherein the prudent shall be silent nor would Salamon haue said There is a time for all things vnder the Sunne but this is one thing vnder the sun therfore a time for it yea a time to be silent from some good yet not to euer throwe the maine good and our good Malcon I like this speech well for indeed pearles are not to be cast before swine who wil but turne back all to rend vs. Tell me sir how I may without equiuocation come out of Iosephs pit and I will giue you forty shillings towards a veluet paire of breeches Liberti Then if I do it not call me cut Malcon And I will doe it and more then that Libert Then thus to worke sir haue you printed any thing of your diuers opinions Malcon Not any thing that hath my name at it Libert Then cary it away closely and henceforth conceale it But further haue you beene much noted abroad in the land for such a Contradictorian Malcon No sir for I was no man of extraordinary gifts Libert Then that damme is closed vp There be some which I know that if their case were such they would presently subscribe specially in secret Your best then is to leane this place where you haue beene noted and so to repaire vnto another Malcon But how then shall I doe for subscription Libert The subscription runneth that you must ex animo protest that euery thing they propound is agreable to Gods word and in nothing re pugnant Malcon True Libert Now sir they can propound nothing so erroneous and wicked but it doth agree with some part of Gods word As for example if they propound any thing for Christian which is indéed Antichristian it doth agrée with the word of prophecy who foretelleth that such euils shall be If they propound obedience to the beast in Reuelation the 13. it agrees with the word of Prophecie which saith such euils shall be propounded And in such sense you onely subscribe namely that all their euill agréeeth with the word of prophecy not y◠you meane that their euill is good otherwise then respectiuely as it is a fulfilling of the holy Prophecy Muse not at the matter the case is plaine the pearle of your meaning is not to be cast before them no more then Abraham would deliuer his preseruatiue meaning vnto the licentious Pharaoh nor Christ would deliuer his Reseruatiue meaning vnto them of Emmaus when he looked another way A certaine Doctor once being demanded what hee thought of Q. Elizabeths supremacy hee vnto them replied I desire my Lords to know what you thinke of it They answer we do beléeue the within her owne dominions she is ouer all persons and in all causes Ciuill and Ecclesiastique supreame He answeres And my very good Lords I do truely beleeue the same Whereupon it is said he scaped Now sir what was it he beleeued not that the Queene was so supreame but he beléeued that the Lords so beléeued Malcon Me thinkes this should be equiuocation in him and yet the former I reasonably affect Libert Tut if euery close helpe wee vse for euading dangers must be called equiuocation then we wil condemne Patriarkes and Prophets Martyrs and Confessors and all godly policy Whereas contrariwise our Sauiour hath taught vs yea commanded vs to be subtile as serpents Malcon Without all question it must bee so and I do verily beleeue you But another thing sir if I come to be beneficed I must once within a moneth after publiquely read in my cure 39. articles of religion cōcluded vpon by our Conuocation house and thereto must then signify my assent and there be some that I like not Libert That 's nothing for vpon the former ground you may say All these agrée with Gods word Or you may say thus beloued here be articles that I must read whereto I assent and of whom I affirme that they be gooly Now you say there be such holy articles but not that all the articles are such and holy Malcon O how happy was I to meete with a man of such prudence diuine experience O that all my brethren were acquainted with this sacred policy O sir you must beware to whom you communicate it Otherwise it may come to the Bishops eares and they would fetch you about againe not only you but all others that yet kéep their places who seeme to leane to the new discipline Take héed therfore of that lest otherwise the latter errour be worse then the first Malcon I thanke you for your good counsell for indeed they be but hollow-hearted towards vs. Well sir here is what I promised and if you come to my lodging that is at N. I will bestow a supper of a crowne on you be it to night or any night within this seuennight Libert I thanke you master Malcontent And I will be at your seruice in what I can There lies your way here is mine Malcon Farewell prudent Libertino Libert As much to you reuerend Gentleman The fourth Dialogue betweene Malcontent and Atheos Malcon MAster Atheos I am glad I haue such a Chamber-fellow to night that bed I take to be the better and it is that as mine Host saith which you had last night On this other therefore I
Neither will I answere such a foote to his full lest I become like him Neque Iupiter omnibus pluens placet neque abstinens The Lord deliuer our Church from euill Amen From my House at Norburne in East-kent this 8. of Iune Anno Dom. 1608. Thine in the Lord He. Cl. THE FIRST DIALOGVE between Mal-content and Romanist First it must be conceiued that Malcontent sitting vnder a tree in the Hie-way hee thus alone expostulates with himselfe Malcontent O Mal-content how vnhappy art thou in this life whither shalt thou go and what will become of thee Go to the Brownist shall I do so In them and their proceedings I find no vnity no concordance Their hand being against all and the hands of all against them The brother of that Churches Pastor hath writ a great booke against them their vnsetled resolutions bloody excommunications and hie-handed tyrannies as if the Pastor were a Pope taking more vpon them for the measure of strength they haue then do all the English prelates In so much as howsoeuer he perswades people to ioine with the cause of Separation as himselfe had and therein since hath died yet at no hand to ioyne with his brothers congregation for manifold reasons there alledged Since which time one whose name soundes vpon an Anuile hath drawen certaine Principles and inferences touching a true visible Church where in he quoteth scripture for another forme of discipline then that which the Brownist practise and most of vs haue taught in our sermons and writings He purposing as it seemeth to receiue others into communion with him who shall separate as he hath and so shew themselues willing to be ruled by his discipline Aes me which side shall I leane vnto Both of them hold a set forme of discipline to be contained in the word Both of them alleadge for the substance thereof the very sarue scriptures but both of them differ exceedingly in the sense of such Scriptures Another side hauing no Baby for their leader although his sir name begin with a B. he holds both with the gouernement at home by Lord Bishops as also with that of Lay-elders abroad as being in the scriptures neither commanded nor forbidden but things in themselues of an indifferent nature So he holdes and yet denies to subscribe for sundry reasons Shall I separate with the first two or shal I continue in the Church of England with the third But miserable man how shall separation or not separation be good If I separate from the Church as Antichristian then the Anabaptist take hold vpon me and saith that I must separate not so much for the prelaticall discipline as for that the spirit of Antichrist there breatheth Antichristian doctrine Yea that the Church becomes to be Antichristian for that their groundes of faith therein held be principles opposite to Christ. And in my cōscience if the first be granted the second will ineuitably follow If I separate not but continue still in the Church I shall in my worke iustifie that which I haue condemned in word In word I haue condemned the Tippet the Surplice the Corner-cap the Crosse in Baptisme and the like for markes of Antichrist But forsaking my ministry I may liue in some other calling and so be put to the vse of no such ceremonies Yea but if I haue a child I must bring it where before I will not it cannot be baptized without the crosse Come I to the Cōmon seruice I must sit in the sight of a Surplice and come I to the Cōmunion I must there kneele receiue at the hands of one that vseth the ceremonies And be I called to be a Church-warden I must take an oath to present the sincere-sort that omit or speake against such ceremonies I am diuided in my selfe what shall I doe H. I. his followers do say very well that this persecution is worse then that of Queene Maries for that made an end of a man quickly but this grants life with a continuing misery Wo is me how is my soule pained within me Though heretofore Ifumed against the author of that booke intituled Errour on the Right-hand yet now mine affections bee cooled and calmed for well I see that there is nothing yet right amongst them And at home I know not how to liue as I would not be held an Hypocrite or turne-coat The euasion must be by some third meanes that as yet I know not Rest poore head rest rest against this trees roote and take a little nap in the shade He being asleep Romanista passeth by and espying Male-content asleepe be staieth and so speaketh Romanista What fast asléepe who may he be By his habite hée should be some Scholar or Citizen Whoo I know him it is Male-content whose head is full of whirligigs and whose pen spins nought but Cob-webs Stay his lips moue to and fro as doth my dog Grim when as he is ready to chunder and barke sléeping Malcon sleeping Fire fire Elias fire Romanista He is calling for fire from heauen as did Elias But it will burne as fast I thinke as did our Uault-gunpowder that should haue blowne vp the Parliament-house in Westminster together with all the heads of the Country But stay some politique retch now or neuer for an inch of policie I hold better then an ell of Diuinity In the time of discontent it is best working vpon Malcontent for vpon conceit it is then most easy to worke I remember a Dialogue in Erasmus his great Colloquium where one passing by the hie-way was desire us to fasten some strange conclusion vppon the conceit of his fellow Passengers Hereupon hée stops his course with his eies vpon the firmament fixed gaping gazing crossing blessing trembling The passengers thereupon stay looke vp and wonder whereat he should so wonder Anon as with much ado he tels them what a fearefull signe he saw in the firmament a Dragon a terrible thing in description I warrant you hereupon he startles holds vp his hands and wondreth at all the rest that they should say they see nothing Anon one of thē thinking scorne but he should see as much as another he also affirmeth that he saw such a terrible wonder Afterwards some and some euery one said he saw it and trembled In this dialogue some haue thought that Erasmus flouted people in England for conceiting a certain great prelate in the Churches firmament beyond that they should conceit c. But howsoeuer I will take aduantage of the time and see if so I can worke some strange thing vpon him I hope it the rather because one of this spirit a Sole sincerian being of late conuented before a great Prelate of this land he offred that if he the said Prelate could proue but one point then in hand hee would without more adoe turne back to the Church of Rome whereupon the Prelate spake to this effect I is it true indéed are you now ready to go a poping what a poping I had
Hostesse And I pray you has he not béene there already Liber No forsooth not this Pope but he is preparing to go thither so fast as he can Hostesse Mary and I wil pray for his good speede For then I hope euery true Catholick shall fare the better by it Good Lord he hath to doe with heauen and he hath to doe with hell and he hath to doe with purgatorie and he hath to doe with Limbo Libert Nay sweete hostesse I heard a Frier in Rome say in the Pulpit that one that was no Pope did aboue 1500 years since opē the gates of Limbo let al the soules out ouerturn the place Hostesse And had he not the Popes licence to doe it Libert He neuer spake with any Pope about it Hostesse And hath not the Pope since curst him Libert Yes forsooth He curst him euery time wherein he cursed Queene Elizabeth Hostesse Well then let king Iames take heed he do not anger him And I would pray you sir to beware how you speak any thing against holy mother Church or any of her children While I was of your mind euery thing went crosse Marry since I reconciled my selfe to holy mother Church my hens lay bigger egges then they did and I take two pence for good ale now where I tooke but a peny then I thanke Saint Campian and S. Garnet for it Well husband I see your flearing well enough These gentlemen can giue audience in all humbility but you will be a flouting Hmybeel as the man said Well gentlemen I will take away for I see you haue done Libert I pray you do meane time what 's the reckoning Hostesse Fiue shillings sir and you are heartily welcome Libert There it is Deo gratias I thanke you mine Host for your good company Malcon I pray you sir stay there be three shillings towards it and I desire I may walke with you a while Libert Well I will take your moneies for this once As for walking with me I am right willing if with any conference I may hestead you Malcon Yes sir seeing you haue bin behinde the Seas and seene the papists and their doings Libert I haue séene them and heard them and laught in my sleeue at them But which way lieth your way Malcon Towards Westminster Libert Haue with you at the nearest Hoste and Hostesse farewell Both. We thanke you heartily kind gentlemen The third Dialogue betweene Libertinus and Malcontent Libert NOw Mr Malcontent what is it you will propound Malcon I desire sir to haue notice of the state of Rome in these daies vile things be diuulged on it if it be so bad it were too bad Libert It was neuer famed for worse then it now is First for the state of substance it is generally very beggerly Traffficke as some other Cities in Italy haue it hath not Indeed many trauell thither as Pilgrimes and there be allowed to stay for certaine daies but as the number of such Pilgrims now be scarse one for an hundred that passed thither of yore so ordinarily they bee but of meane degree and ere they come thither their purse hath cast her calfe For the small time of their aboad then there somewhat comes out of the coffers of the scarlet Cardinals Which spent they put vp their pipes and packe away They might come out full but they returne foole and empty Secondly for the state of Pope and Cardinals it is altogether pompous and princelike the Cardinals hauing hinges enowe in their doore to turne vpon and the Pope besides other meanes hath a mighty allowance annually from the Curtizans scalding-tubs for no occupatiōs in Rome more cōmon then Venery and Penury Thirdly for the state of their religious houses let the vaults secret preambulatiōs vnder earth tell y◠Fourthly for their publique deuotions the formes of them be Pagan-like the multiplicitie of them be as Sisyphus stone alwaies rolling but neuer at an end In a word it is an Egypt for slauery a Babel for bondage a Bethel for idolatry a Tophet for confused noise a Gehinnon for bloud-shed a Sodome for all spurcicity an Hell for dānatiō Malcont If the head be no better what shall become of the body Libert And whereas they plead Vnity taxe all other Churches for Distraction I protest a man shall finde more emulations heart-burnings vituperies bloudy practises amongst them with mutuall oppositions one against another then amongst all other Christians in the world besides Euery schoole man standeth so for his owne schoole doctrine as Thomists for Thomas Scotists for Scotus sic ad infinitum as the like diuision neuer yet hath béene raised betwéene the Aristotelians and Ramists Then go to the friery Orders and the Augustine condemns the Dominik and the Dominik him The blacke frier vituperates the gray white and either of them againe preferres highly his owne order The Iesuite condemnes the Secular for an Apostate and the Secular priest againe auerreth that the Iesuite aberreth from his orders and is now become a Statesman and Factor for Spaine As for the bloody Inquisition they plague all and all curse them what shall I say Malcon Nay you haue said enough and yet but that which I oft before haue heard I beseech you sir of your counsell I haue beene one of them which haue stood heere for the new discipline holding that we haue for popish and Antichristian And seeing this discipline would not be had I lastly resolued to separate and so enter into that course which is called Brownisme As I thus resolued there comes a booke into my hands touching Principles and inferences of a true visible Church This booke teacheth a Separation as do the writings of the former but when he comes to the discipline he then differs much from the former and so from the most of our Reformistes heere at home so well as from the Church of Scotland and the like First we haue held that the Pastor might onely administer the Sacraments but the author of this booke holdeth that the Doctor may administer them also Secondly we haue taught that the Elders were to be imploied in Church gouernement onely I meane in the discipline but he affirmeth further that they are all of them apt to teach and so to assist in doctrine Thirdly we haue published that the Church is to giue the officers their Calling meaning thereby all the men of the Church were to giue their voice but he intimates further that women and children are to giue their consent also for such election and calling Fourthly we held Excommunication to be the casting out of a contumaticus person and that to the excution thereof there appertained only rebukes the word and prayer as all spirituall but he infinuates further that some bodily punishment also is to be annexed What shall I say in many things he is crosse to the discipline which before hath beene applauded and yet the man they say an honest man reuerend and learned In the necke of
into an Angell of light that so mislead me and the fruit which I cropt was but the forbid-fruit the ruine of such as couer knowledge beyond knowledge wich Salomon vpon his Repentance calleth a Being-ouerwise Medioc The Apostle therefore commandeth that no man presume to vnderstād aboue that which is méete to vnderstād but that he vnderstand according to sobriety all one with his Mottie that writ vppon the errour on the right hand Malcon I pray you sir by the way know you the Author of that Booke intituled Errour on the right-hand Medioc I doe Malcon And what thinke you of his booke Medioc The man is so neere and deare vnto mee as I cannot speake what I thinke but I should be held partiall Yet this I dare say as he had experience in himselfe of the Flyers error so in the persons of others he by experience of disputation did wel obserue that if the first positions of Malcontent did hold currant then not onely would followe the Brow nists separation but also would followe the main positions of the Anabaptist and if of the Anabaptist then also of othres Malcon Was hee not then at some times caryed away or entangled with Anabaptisme Arianisme c Some conclude that by his booke hee should Medioc Uery wittily and conscionably I warrant you as if certaine of the Fathers as Epiphanius Augustine should haue been tainted sometimes with all Schismes and Heresies of their times because they writ against all Schismes and Heresies of their times A conclusion good enough for Tom-Scull sometimes of Immanuel Colledge in Cābridge But to leaue this By and to returne vnto y◠main namely the Subscription afore discoursed of It seemeth somwhat hard that subscription by our church shold bee pressed to all her conclusions agreed vpon in common as agreeing to the word of God Malcon It is so indeede Neither doth the former booke intituled Errour on the right hand decide that point as to to me it seemeth Medioc When you shall reade it with a lesse partiall spirit you shall obserue what yet it seemeth you haue not specially by the positions added to y◠hee le of that Booke But to leaue y◠and to come vnto the Scriptures for helping vs out of the Atheisticall consequents that follow their reasō of not subscribing You remember that of Iob it is thus recorded Hee was an vpright and iust man one that feared God and eschewed euill And the word Tám turned vpright is in propriety perfect was he such a one before God absolutely if so he should haue beene examined by the perfection of the Law Malcon Onely Christ could bee such a one Medioc Well in the first of S. Luke it is testified touching Zecharias and Elizabeth the parents of Iohn Baptist that both were iust before God and walked in all the commandements and ordinances of the Lord. Did S. Luke herein testifie truth Malcon It were blasphemy to say the contrary seeing therein he was but the pen man of the holy Ghost Medioc Were both of them so iust and had both of them so kept all the commandements as in nothing they had offended Malcon Doubtles no for all haue gone out of the way and all need grace and free pardon for sin else Christ vnto such died in vaine Medioc How then were they iust and how then did they kéep all the commandements Malcon Iustice and perfect obedience was imputed vnto them because their hearts were vpright in the maine of their conuersation howsoeuer they failed in the By through imbecillity and weaknesse Medioc And if God lay not the By to his childrens charge where the maine of their cariage is iust what are we that we shold once dare to lay the By vnto his churches charge being a whole corporation of his children and besides to make it an argument of brawling with our mother Salomon saith The eie that mocketh the Father and despiseth the instruction of the Mother let the Rauens of the valley picke it out and the yong Eagles eate it Malcon You in your wisedome haue inforced me to cut off the head of mine owne doubt Medioc Why alas doth not our Church hold that she erred in this life and could she be thought to hold a subscription against her owne Tenet Shée doth not presse inch subscription in an high absolute sense as if in none of her words or writings shee failed from the perfection of the word one of her 39 articles cleares that so well as all her Apologie doth against the pride of the Church of Rome in that point but she presseth conformity Secundùm quid according to that is due vnto her in this world as she hath receiued of God to be a faithful Dispensator of his will Nor otherwise could wee put a sufficient difference betwéene the Canonicall scriptures our writings For priuat conceits as you may haue yours I may haue mine a third may haue a third and so on without end must these be causes why euery of vs must exclaime one vpon another and all of vs agree in one to disturbe the Church So there shall neuer be communion neuer any order so consequently not any peace If she be a mother let her keepe her place remembring still that here she is but as Israel in the wildernes and if we be not bastards but true borne children let vs know our place and not with Corah Dathan Abiram rise vp against the congregation our mother for if we do the earth will desire to swallow vp our glory and we shal be but as they that went downe to the pit Oh Malcontent Malcontent if Quéene Maries scortching Beames were vpon vs againe wee would a thousand times be thankfull for the least cooling shade that our Lawrell gouernement affordeth But it is in such fulfilled whereof Moses long since sung He that should haue been vpright becomming once fat hath spurned with his heele Had not Manna béen so plenteous they would not so soone haue lothed and had not their mother béene so familiar shee had not beene so soone despised Nam nimia ingurgitatio facit ineptum nimia familiaritas parit contemptum They still haue in their mouthes wee must grow in grace grow in knowledge grow in obedience but when we examine their growth behold they go from good vnto bad from light vnto darknesse from obedience to disobedience from some order vnto none from some vnity to all sorts of faction First warring with their mother then iarring amongst themselues and lastly a loathing vnto all men So grew Israel in the wildernes from discontent vnto faction from faction vnto Schisme from Schisme vnto rebellion from rebellion to lifes confusion till the earth was weary of them the Sanctuary lothed them and the Lord slue them Malcon O Lord how nere this comes vnto me and how may I seale to the truth thereof from mine owne experience Reuerend sir I haue beene thus troublous vnto you but God I doubt