said he this Author can have any grounds to Hope for what he says at last that has read what he said before So that this Gentleman seems to me said my Friend to have the Honesty of the good old Fox who after he had singled out several of the Flock and devoured them wiped his Mouth after Dinner and fell to his Prayers wishing the remainder of the Geese all increase of happiness and that they were double the number upon the Common Thus said my Friend I wonder this good Gentleman in his great Fit of Charity and Devotion had not wished the Estates of the Bishops double also that he might have the pulling of their Feathers and the larger share in the division of their Lands But I tell you Sir continued he with vehemence that there are Thousands and Thousands of us Gentlemen of the Church of England who are not to be baffled out of our Religion by an Irreligious Jest or two We are not Beau's of Sixteen that we should forego our Faith in our Blessed Saviour to hearken to the Buffoonry of an old Infidel Nor shall any Man living perswade us that Estates are proper only for Men that wait at Taverns and Plays and worse Places while those that wait at the Altar of God must Starve or that Thousands of Learned and Honest and Religious Men must want that Fools and Knaves and Atheists may abound We cannot disbelieve the Mysteries of Christianity to hearken to this Man's Reason till he has shewn a little more of it than he has done in this Pamphlet or let it be as good as it will he will have much ado to perswade us that his blasphemous Friend Page 25. can write as good a Moral as our Saviour and the next time he comes up to Parliament it may be will tell us he can live as good a one too But if his Friend said he be so very good at Writing Morals I think this Author would do well to desire him to Write One against malicious Lying and to read it well over himself when it is done For this puts too Keen an Edge upon an ill-natur'd Infidel as well as Divine and is the ugliest sign in the World of a Mean Birth and Narrow Education In fine Sir said he this Man would feign insinuate by one of his Friends as he would have us believe Page 27. That all Religion is wholly lost in the World I pray God said my Friend this be not more this Man's Wish than his Belief But if it be lost I must say said he that of all Men living neither he nor his Friends do seem to me to be the Persons that are ever like to find it But if these Men's Counsels added he and Devices should stand there would quickly be an end of all Religion in the World indeed Pray Sir said I what is your reason for this Opinion Because said he he that has but half an Eye may see that the end of these Men is to bring us all to Deism and to beat out all Revealed Religion But if once Sir said he we come to have no Divine standing Revealed Measure or Rule of Life and Faith he must be quite blind that does not see that a very little time will bring the greatest part of Mankind either to downright Atheism or Idolatry which is as bad and that every Man will make his own God and every Man his own Worship Upon this I replied Surely Sir you mistake when you say that these Men intend to pull down all Revealed Religion For the Author of the Growth of Deism says Page the first That there is no reason why one should suspect the Gospels of Forgery and Page 25. He makes one of his Deists to be convinc'd by a late Book of the Reasonableness of Christianity c. that he was more indebted to Revelation than he thought of And the Author of the Letter to the Deists confesses Page 138. That the generality of Mankind stand in need of some further Assistance than that general Capacity they are naturally endowed with and that considering the many Frailties of Humane Nature some extraordinary Helps may be useful Page 141. And he does not deny in the same Page but that God may convey these Helps by Men extraordinarily Commissioned by him Now this Sir says he Page 138. is pretended at least among Christians to have been done by the Revelation of Jesus Christ And if the History of the Gospel be true he says its Divine Authority cannot be questioned And he believes Page 142. that Christianity has the sairest Pretensions to this of any Religion now in the World To which my Friend answered The Author of the Letter to the Deist Sir said he is the best Interpreter in the World of the Author of the Growth of Deism He is I doubt not as well acquainted with his Mind as his own though if you will believe him not with his Person They were both convinc'd as he says Page 148. of the reality of Revealed Religion by the same Book and are both Converts questionless of the same Make and Size The Author of the Growth of Deism tells us Page 25. that one of his Deists but the Author of the Letter Page 148. tells us with more Honesty or less Caution that it was himself was convinc'd by a late Book called The Reasonableness of Christianity c. that he was more indebted to Revelation than he thought of but yet he tells us in the same Page that he could have written as good a Moral at the Scripture himself and had not his Modesty stood a little in his way I presume would have said a much Better and by Consequence that he could have done as well without it Nay I think verily it had never been mentioned but to insinuate some malicious Suggestions against the Church of England The Author of the Letter receives the Gospel no further than if it be true as an Improvement of Deism Page 144. and so far he is ready for all as I can see Page the 8th to receive what is written by Apollonius or Mahomet That Jesus Christ was Commissioned by God to reveal his Will is he says Page 138. only pretended by Christians and the utmost he will allow to Christianity is Page 142. That it has the fairest Pretensions to Revelation of any Religion now in the World So that our Saviour has only fair Pretensions to a Divine Authority at best and if this Man lived at Constantinople as he does in England who knows whether he might not find out another Fair Pretender there For Page 136. he tells us That something more easie and more evident is still wanting and therefore Page 137. he solicits Mr. Lock to give us a more perfect System of the Laws of Natural Religion It would Sir said my Friend make an Ass speak again to forbid the madness of these Prophets I know not which the Author of this Letter deserves most our Laughter our Pity
pulled the Nut out of the Fire with the Cats Foot but both the Action and Design was wholly the Monky's and not the Cat 's and this Gentleman makes so many ugly Grimaces through his whole Pamphlet against all Christian Churches as well as that of England that it is an easie Matter to see who was Master of this Movement 'T is true said he he does sometimes seem to boggle a little at the Deists Arguments brought against the Truth and in Scandal of the Christian Religion but he does it after such a yawning rate that you would believe he were more than half a-sleep when he did it But however it be as to that matter yet all they bring against the Church of England he swallows whole and does not only allow but improve them So that whatver Disguises he would appear under in other Respects yet all that is said against the Church of England is plainly his own and ought to be so esteemed And therefore said he let him put on as many Skins as he will we see his Ears still as the Man knew well enough who it was that stunk though the Woman said 't was her Dog But pray Sir said I how can this be When Page the 8th we are told that he belongs to the Church of England and that it was well for him he was of the Bishop's Church for without a dutiful Allegiance to the Bishops he could not hold the Place he now enjoys I am glad Sir said my Friend to hear that some Men may hold Places under the Church of England that are not of the De Facto-ship And this is the only Instance I think though I believe much against his Will and Knowledge that he has confuted the Objections he made by the Deists against the Church of England For by this Instance he hath let the World see that a Man may hold a Place and yet pay very small Duty to the Bishops Not that I doubt said he but that he is old enough to hold a Place under any Church whatever and be their Shiboleth the Jure Divino or De Facto or any other Title he is wise enough to hold fast what he has only it may be he had rather their Shiboleth were the Title of the People that so the King might hold his Place under him And as for his belonging to the Church of England he may Sir said he for all as I know if you will allow Judas to belong to Jesus and the twelve or Ascarides to belong to the Body of a Man After he had said this Sir said I we will have done if you please with the Title and I will beg the Favour of you to give me your Judgment of the Body of the Discourse Judas It is what I have been long a waiting for Tim. I tell you then Sir said he that if you will believe all this Author says you may believe enough if only what he proves you can believe nothing For if you will not take his Word for his Stories there 's an End of them and I dare boldly say that take ten Pages together through his whole Book and there is hardly one Word of Truth in them or if there be it may honestly be said of him what he colourably says of the Deists Page the 14th that he stretches his Conclusion beyond his Premises The main of his Building is raised on the Shiboleths as he calls them of the Church of England The Doctrine of Non-resistance and the De Facto Title there is a little Colour of Truth in the First in the last there is none at all So that if you do but rightly state the former and barely deny the latter his whole Structure falls about his Ears and he is buried in its Ruins The rest of his Book is most of it Personal Calumniations just said and never proved and for the greatest Part as false as the Foundations of his Building are rotten In short Sir said he it is a Discourse written with that little Truth and less Argument with that incomparable Malice against all settled Churches particularly that of England against Christianity it self in all its holy Mysteries more especially that of the Divinity of our Blessed Saviour that I cannot think those Papers can deserve any better Fate than to expire in a like Place where the Authour 's famous Ancestor Arius did and Sir said he I honestly confess to you that those I had of them have sometimes since given up the Ghost Thus Sir you have heard in part the Thoughts of my Friend upon this Pamphlet pray now before we go any further what are your Thoughts of him Judas Why truly Sir to deal plainly with you I think him a Priest-ridden Ass one that has more Ears than Brains that hears and receives whatsoever the Priests please to put into his Head and has no Judgment to distinguish of things But as for my Friend the Author of this Pamphlet so I call him for so he is I think him next the Honourable S. R. H. the best Distinguisher in the World He had that Acumen Ingenii from his Infancy that he was used to slit Motes in the Sun when he was but four Years old and now he is above threescore he can he says slit a Hair without Spectacles In short Sir I believe that you cannot but see that he has distinguished so nicely between Religion and Priest-Craft that he has made all Ambitious Priests to stink even from Aaron down to this Day And has turned the Edge of the Church of England's Caution to young Travellers Page 5th so sharply against their own Throats that he has distinguished them forever out of their Gains that way by making it plainly appear that there are as many holy Cheats amongst the Clergy of the Church of England as amongst those of Rome And now Sir since you have had my Judgment so freely of your Friend pray let me have yours so of mine and of his Discourse Tim. I will Sir as far as concerns the Church of England but no farther let others answer for themselves And I will do it only on this Supposition too that when I charge this Author with what is said against the Church of England you do not reply that it was said by this or t'other Deist and not by him For besides that this would breed an endless Confusion in our Discourse if the Charge that is made against the Church of England be answered it matters not under whose Name it be done But I cannot think of a juster Way than doing it under this Authors for the Cause and Quarrel is wholly his though like a Coward he hides his own Head and thrusts other Men forward to fight it for him Do not think therefore Sir that in the Judgment I shall give of and Answer I shall make to this Pamphlet that like a Gladiator I will go to fencing with half a dozen Men at once when 't is obvious that all the Thrusts they
A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timotheus and Judas Concerning a Pamphlet called The Growth of DEISM in England A DIALOGUE Between Timotheus Judas Concerning a PAMPHLET CALLED The Growth of Deism in England LONDON Printed for S. Manship at the Ship in Cornhil near the Royal-Exchange MDCXCVI TO THE READER ABout the middle of June last a Gentleman put into my Hands a Pamphlet called The Growth of Deism in England but withall told me that he had borrowed it upon promise to restore it with speed and therefore could allow me just time to peruse it and so I did and that was all My Curiosity leading me to a further and more ferious perusal of it I sent with what speed I could to London for one of those Pamphlets but could not get one till July the 18th Assoon as I had received it and read it once or twice I believed that the Author's Travels in his Youth had spoiled him and so much corrupted his Christianity as not to leave him the Morals of an Honest Infidel What his Modesty his Truth and Charity are his Pamphlet tells us plainly enough What his Religion is I wish he himself could tell If we should allow him to be a poor deformed By-blow of Socinus we do him great Honour But who can guess what or who he is He has more Disguises on than Father Grey-beard had on the Scaffold in 48. Jan. 30. Whether that Man be still living or no who can tell But however that be the Author of the Growth of Deism has undertaken the like Jobb of Journey-work again excepting only that his Master has enlarged his Commission to the Execution of the whole Body of Christianity with its Prince or as he calls him Page 17. its Patron I had sent this abroad a little sooner to beg the Honour of its being admitted into his Numerous Acquaintance but I feared being upon his Travels in making his Summer-Visits it might not find him But the Season of the Year approaching now that will call him to his Winter-Quarters in London I thought it good Manners to send this forth a little before-hand to wait him there and Congratulate his Return A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timotheus Judas Concerning a Pamphlet called the Growth of Deism in England Judas SIR next paying my Respects to you after your Return Home the chief of my business is to have your Judgment of a Pamphlet lately written called The Growth of Deism in England Tim. I just saw and heard of it Sir in my Journey and that was all Judas Bless me Sir It has been abroad several months and written with that smartness of Stile and quickness of Wit that I am amazed to hear you say you did not hear of it before Tim. If you could have added Evidence of Truth and Strength of Argument it had been never the worse But you know Sir that I live a Retired Life and that I have neither Time nor Mony like that Author to Contract a Numerous Acquaintance to spend the Winter in Town and the Summer in Country Visits There may be a thousand Books Printed and I never hear of One of them And it was meer chance only that ever I heard of this Judas But pray Sir what is your Judgment of it for I presume you have read it since your Return Tim. Once or twice I have Sir enough in Conscience to see through the Authors both Honesty and Argument But because I do not much trust to my own Judgment in any thing I will if you please Sir wave mine a while and give you an honest Gentleman's Opinion of it who was with me lately and who had scanned it narrowly Judas With all my Heart Sir Tim. Asking then his Judgment Sir of it he told me that it was ominous to stumble in the Threshold When I read Sir said he the Title of that Pamphlet of the Growth of Deism I expected to have heard of Arguments to invalidate all Revelation I expected to have heard of Sampson's Locks and Balaam's Ass in the Old Testament and of as many Absurdities in Matters of Faith and Falshoods in Matters of Fact in the New I believed he would have proved its inconsistency with the Chronology and History of those Times in which it was written of its prescribing Mysteries to be believed which were contradictory to common Understanding and of matters of Practice which were so to common Morals I expected to have heard that the Apostles were no proper Judges of the Matters of Fact they delivered that they were corrupted either through Interest or Design or rendered Incompetent through Ignorance or Profligate Lives and by consequence that their Testimony could not be supposed to pass in any Court of Judicature in the World and that for the same Reasons we might reject the Validity of it too This I say I lookt for at least from this Man when I read the Title to his Pamphlet for I expected Pertinence and not Design but instead thereof out comes a Mouse at last and tells me that there are a parcel of Men amongst the Clergy of England that do not live so good Lives as they should do as if said he there were any Body of Men in the World that did and that our Saviour had not expresly foretold that to the End thereof there would be Tares mixed with the Wheat Sir said I methinks there cannot be a weaker and more Ridiculous Argument brought against the truth of any Doctrine than the ill Lives of some of its Professors For if there be any Force in it there is with Christianity an End of all Religion in the World for none are without some Men of bad Lives and all Mankind if this Argument be good must with one dead weight sink into downright Atheism To which my Friend replyed and who knows Sir saith he what hidden Reserve this Man had when he made use of it But Sir said I it may be if this Author's Life were narrowly inspected into that it might be found no very good Argument for the Truth of that Religion whatever it be that he himself professes To which my Friend returned We ought Sir to have better grounds to believe it is than he has given us in this Pamphlet for Diabolical Slanders and Malice said he are but poor Arguments of a Good Life But when all is done said my Friend if the bad Lives of some of the Clergy of England are an Argument against the Truth of Revelation the Lives of those that are good must by a Parity of Reason be an Argument for it and except said he that this Man is lost to all Shame and Modesty he cannot deny but that there are abundance of the Clergy of England that live answerably to their Faith Upon this I interposed a little and said you seem Sir to me to be much mistaken For this Gentleman does not say that these Arguments have made him a Deist but some of his Acquaintance To which he replied The Monky Sir you know