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book_n author_n scripture_n write_v 1,698 5 5.4762 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A36727 A conference between an orthodox Christian and a Socinian in four dialogues : wherein the late distinction of a real and nominal Trinitarian is considered / by H. de Lvzancy ... De Luzancy, H. C. (Hippolyte du Chastelet), d. 1713. 1698 (1698) Wing D2417; ESTC R31382 78,348 146

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pardonable_a origen_n and_o other_o antenicenes_n make_v out_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n in_o a_o ternary_a of_o person_n though_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o equality_n say_v the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n pag._n 22._o unjust_a in_o this_o to_o origen_n and_o the_o rest_n i_o have_v some_o remark_n on_o that_o answer_n which_o i_o design_v to_o make_v public_a what_o the_o author_n have_v say_v concern_v the_o epistle_n of_o st._n barnabas_n and_o those_o of_o the_o holy_a martyr_n ignatius_n be_v far_o from_o invalidate_v their_o authority_n we_o must_v have_v more_o than_o suspicion_n and_o bare_a denial_n to_o illegitimate_a a_o book_n they_o be_v certain_o work_v of_o great_a antiquity_n and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v such_o by_o the_o succeed_a age_n but_o what_o must_v we_o say_v of_o a_o person_n of_o his_o great_a erudition_n who_o pretend_v to_o answer_v a_o book_n full_a of_o all_o the_o testimony_n which_o those_o early_a time_n can_v afford_v quarrel_v only_o with_o two_o or_o three_o author_n against_o who_o he_o say_v nothing_o substantial_a and_o be_v whole_o silent_a to_o justin_n martyr_n st._n irenaeus_n clemens_n alexandrinus_n tatianus_n miltiades_n melito_n dionysius_n of_o alexandria_n tertullian_n lactantius_n etc._n etc._n be_v it_o enough_o to_o confute_v the_o ante-nicene_n father_n to_o say_v as_o this_o author_n pag._n 7._o that_o all_o their_o glory_n be_v whole_o due_a to_o the_o vanity_n of_o modern_a learned_a man_n who_o quote_v these_o book_n not_o because_o they_o value_v they_o but_o because_o be_v ancient_a monument_n know_v to_o few_o and_o understand_v by_o few_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v a_o great_a learned_a man_n who_o can_v drop_v sentence_n out_o of_o these_o antique_a book_n but_o this_o be_v mild_a and_o oblige_a if_o compare_v with_o pag._n 63._o where_o this_o author_n have_v say_v that_o trinitarianism_n be_v not_o so_o much_o a_o religion_n as_o the_o law_n of_o the_o byzantine_n or_o constantinopolitan_a emperor_n style_v the_o then_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n the_o parasite_n of_o these_o time_n who_o now_o in_o regard_n of_o their_o antiquity_n we_o call_v father_n you_o be_v not_o insensible_a how_o this_o may_v be_v take_v up_o and_o expose_v if_o hosius_n spiridio_n paphnutius_fw-la if_o the_o gregory_n the_o basil_n the_o cyril_n the_o theodoret_n the_o chrysostoms_n the_o hierom_n the_o hilary_n the_o ambrose_n the_o augustine_n be_v the_o parasite_n of_o their_o time_n where_o shall_v we_o find_v any_o virtue_n piety_n or_o learn_v in_o this_o world_n but_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o overlook_a those_o excess_n and_o tell_v you_o that_o it_o be_v a_o folly_n to_o wrangle_v with_o this_o or_o that_o passage_n sometime_o to_o inveigh_v against_o platonicism_n and_o sometime_o to_o complain_v that_o those_o write_n be_v lose_v which_o may_v have_v inform_v we_o better_o to_o be_v plain_a we_o have_v enough_o leave_v and_o from_o what_o remain_v of_o the_o time_n before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a it_o appear_v that_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n and_o the_o belief_n of_o a_o trinity_n of_o person_n in_o that_o one_o god_n father_n son_n and_o holy_a spirit_n be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n the_o arrian_n indeed_o may_v challenge_v some_o of_o the_o then_o father_n who_o speak_v more_o obscure_o and_o be_v easy_o misinterpret_v but_o socinianism_n have_v not_o the_o least_o pretence_n to_o any_o he_o must_v have_v forfeit_v all_o modesty_n who_o assert_n it_o socin_n but_o what_o have_v you_o to_o say_v to_o the_o apostolical_a creed_n be_v it_o not_o a_o evidence_n beyond_o all_o other_o evidence_n orthod_n of_o what_o socin_n of_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o great_a god_n orthod_n and_o so_o be_v all_o our_o creed_n from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o socin_n but_o it_o be_v a_o evidence_n against_o your_o trinity_n orthod_n against_o that_o trinity_n which_o you_o have_v false_o impute_v to_o we_o and_o that_o be_v a_o trinity_n of_o god_n but_o not_o against_o a_o trinity_n of_o person_n in_o one_o god_n what_o be_v the_o first_o assertion_n of_o that_o creed_n i_o believe_v in_o one_o god_n for_o you_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v ancient_o thus_o read_v ans_fw-fr to_o doctor_n bull_n pag._n 16._o what_o be_v the_o second_o but_o a_o explication_n of_o the_o first_o this_o one_o god_n be_v the_o father_n almighty_a his_o only_a beget_v son_n jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n three_o person_n in_o one_o god_n socin_n this_o be_v so_o drag_v in_o so_o strain_v so_o unnatural_a that_o to_o any_o unprejudiced_a person_n it_o will_v visible_o appear_v not_o to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n design_v to_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o creed_n orthod_n i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v that_o i_o can_v substantial_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v i_o believe_v the_o creed_n to_o be_v true_o apostolical_a notwithstanding_o what_o some_o learned_a man_n have_v say_v against_o it_o not_o because_o it_o be_v make_v by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o though_o nothing_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a but_o by_o reason_n of_o its_o great_a antiquity_n now_o when_o you_o and_o i_o dispute_v about_o the_o sense_n and_o design_n of_o that_o creed_n we_o have_v but_o one_o way_n to_o take_v and_o that_o be_v first_o to_o see_v what_o the_o scripture_n teach_v concern_v its_o article_n which_o indeed_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o epitome_n or_o collection_n of_o the_o principal_a truth_n deliver_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n second_o to_o examine_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n who_o live_v before_o the_o church_n think_v it_o fit_a and_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o large_a explanation_n of_o the_o faith_n three_o to_o satisfy_v ourselves_o of_o the_o sense_n which_o the_o immediate_o follow_v council_n give_v to_o that_o creed_n in_o their_o decree_n all_o this_o be_v high_o reasonable_a for_o if_o the_o scripture_n which_o have_v teach_v so_o express_o god_n to_o be_v one_o have_v also_o express_o teach_v the_o father_n to_o be_v god_n the_o son_n god_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n god_n than_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v such_o and_o no_o other_o the_o authority_n of_o that_o creed_n or_o of_o any_o creed_n whatever_o be_v from_o the_o scripture_n it_o can_v therefore_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o and_o that_o excellent_a rule_n must_v be_v bring_v to_o that_o primitive_a rule_n from_o whence_o it_o be_v derive_v and_o alas_o have_v not_o this_o be_v prove_v to_o you_o so_o often_o and_o so_o full_o that_o after_o a_o world_n of_o wrangle_v you_o have_v be_v drive_v from_o your_o new_a and_o unnatural_a criticism_n and_o force_v to_o shelter_v yourselves_o under_o the_o weak_a defence_n of_o your_o philosophical_a disceptation_n but_o if_o this_o creed_n have_v no_o other_o sense_n but_o that_o which_o you_o put_v upon_o it_o the_o father_n only_a god_n the_o son_n only_a man_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n only_o a_o energy_n or_o operation_n how_o come_v the_o father_n of_o that_o time_n so_o open_o to_o contradict_v it_o i_o will_v not_o do_v again_o what_o have_v be_v so_o excellent_o do_v by_o the_o learned_a dr._n bull_n who_o have_v oblige_v the_o christian_a church_n with_o two_o book_n which_o indeed_o you_o may_v speak_v or_o discourse_v against_o but_o can_v never_o substantial_o answer_v have_v he_o not_o undeniable_o prove_v out_o of_o their_o write_n that_o those_o father_n believe_v the_o two_o nature_n in_o jesus_n christ_n the_o divine_a and_o the_o human_a that_o they_o have_v assert_v his_o pre-existence_n and_o if_o his_o pre-existence_n than_o his_o eternity_n and_o if_o his_o eternity_n than_o his_o consubstantiality_n with_o the_o father_n if_o the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o christ_n only_a man_n how_o come_v irenaeus_n lib._n 1._o advers._fw-la haeres_fw-la c._n 2._o in_o deliver_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n or_o as_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n all_o the_o world_n over_o to_o call_v he_o our_o lord_n our_o god_n our_o saviour_n our_o king_n to_o who_o every_o knee_n ought_v to_o bow_v etc._n etc._n how_o come_v tertullian_n who_o have_v deliver_v this_o very_a rule_n of_o faith_n to_o talk_v as_o we_o do_v of_o the_o bless_a trinity_n design_o and_o positive_o against_o praxea_n and_o say_v that_o he_o be_v warrant_v by_o the_o apostle_n to_o speak_v of_o christ_n as_o of_o he_o who_o be_v god_n bless_v over_o all_o for_o ever_o if_o he_o believe_v the_o holy_a spirit_n to_o be_v only_o a_o energy_n how_o come_v he_o to_o style_v he_o tertium_fw-la numen_fw-la deitatis_fw-la &_o tertium_fw-la nomen_fw-la majestatis_fw-la the_o three_o person_n of_o the_o deity_n the_o three_o name_n of_o majesty_n and_o power_n certain_o novatianus_n be_v acquaint_v with_o this_o creed_n and_o yet_o lib._n de_fw-fr trin._n
c._n 13._o he_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o scripture_n deliver_v so_o manifest_o christ_n to_o be_v god_n that_o several_a heretic_n divinitatis_fw-la ipsius_fw-la magnitudine_fw-la &_o veritate_fw-la commoti_fw-la move_v by_o the_o great_a sense_n and_o truth_n of_o his_o divinity_n have_v confound_v he_o with_o the_o father_n but_o if_o we_o have_v no_o such_o proof_n as_o these_o there_o be_v still_o one_o which_o according_a to_o your_o late_a principle_n you_o can_v oppose_v i_o say_v your_o late_a principle_n for_o you_o change_v every_o day_n socin_n no_o you_o do_v we_o wrong_n we_o be_v still_o the_o same_o orthod_n i_o may_v at_o some_o time_n or_o other_o have_v a_o occasion_n to_o prove_v the_o defection_n of_o the_o outlandish_a socinian_o from_o socinus_n of_o you_o from_o the_o outlandish_a socinian_o and_o of_o yourselves_o from_o yourselves_o in_o your_o first_o and_o late_a print_n but_o let_v we_o not_o digress_v from_o the_o thing_n in_o dispute_n the_o proof_n which_o i_o speak_v of_o be_v the_o great_a council_n of_o nice_a socin_n what_o that_o council_n which_o have_v publish_v establish_v and_o infect_v the_o world_n with_o its_o infidelity_n as_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n judicious_o observe_v pag._n 25._o orthod_n that_o first_o ecumenical_a council_n which_o can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a both_o of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o apostolical_a creed_n and_o of_o the_o father_n who_o they_o immediate_o succeed_v a_o council_n so_o venerable_a for_o its_o antiquity_n so_o reverence_v for_o the_o number_n of_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n who_o vote_v in_o it_o so_o highy_o honour_v by_o the_o follow_a age_n to_o this_o day_n do_v they_o know_v the_o apostolical_a creed_n or_o do_v they_o not_o if_o you_o say_v they_o do_v not_o you_o overthrow_v all_o that_o you_o can_v pretend_v from_o it_o a_o creed_n can_v neither_o be_v apostolical_a or_o universal_a which_o the_o nicene_n father_n be_v not_o acquaint_v with_o and_o if_o they_o do_v than_o your_o sense_n of_o it_o be_v not_o that_o of_o these_o primitive_a time_n for_o they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o interpret_n as_o you_o do_v jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v only_a man_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n to_o be_v only_o a_o energy_n or_o operation_n that_o you_o know_v how_o positive_o how_o earnest_o they_o assert_v they_o to_o be_v consubstantial_a to_o the_o father_n i_o may_v be_v mistake_v but_o if_o this_o way_n of_o reason_v be_v not_o plain_a i_o do_v know_v what_o can_v be_v plain_a socin_n but_o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a or_o indeed_o with_o any_o council_n whatsoever_o we_o have_v innumerable_a objection_n against_o that_o and_o the_o follow_a council_n orthod_n i_o confess_v you_o speak_v as_o a_o socinian_n of_o the_o first_o edition_n thus_o socinus_n and_o his_o first_o disciple_n answer_v to_o those_o great_a authority_n thus_o do_v yourselves_o write_v in_o your_o first_o print_n the_o world_n indeed_o stare_v at_o you_o but_o however_o it_o have_v a_o air_n if_o not_o of_o reason_n at_o least_o of_o sincerity_n but_o a_o socinian_n of_o the_o second_o edition_n run_v another_o way_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o change_v every_o day_n pray_v open_v the_o discourse_n concern_v the_o real_a and_o nominal_a trinitarian_n socin_n what_o then_o orthod_n there_o you_o may_v sin_v your_o condemnation_n in_o that_o particular_a out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n pag._n 4._o the_o author_n speak_v of_o the_o great_a lateran_n council_n observe_v that_o a_o doctrine_n be_v not_o heresy_n because_o reject_v by_o a_o great_a number_n of_o learned_a man_n or_o by_o a_o national_a council_n but_o only_o when_o censure_v by_o a_o general_n council_n the_o catholic_n church_n be_v never_o understand_v to_o speak_v but_o by_o a_o general_n council_n pag._n 5._o be_v not_o a_o general_n council_n the_o high_a court_n of_o the_o church_n her_o canon_n declare_v the_o faith_n her_o anathema_n heresy_n and_o pag._n 16._o a_o general_n council_n be_v the_o last_o tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o lie_v no_o appeal_n pag._n 4._o he_o call_v this_o a_o incontestable_a argument_n now_o pray_v deal_v sincere_o and_o apply_v this_o to_o the_o nicene_n council_n no_o body_n ever_o yet_o dispute_v its_o universality_n it_o be_v assemble_v under_o and_o by_o the_o first_o christian_a emperor_n it_o represent_v the_o whole_a church_n the_o creed_n then_o of_o that_o council_n determine_v the_o sense_n of_o any_o precede_a creed_n whatever_o you_o can_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n be_v insignificant_a because_o such_o a_o determination_n come_v from_o the_o high_a tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o lie_v no_o appeal_n upon_o the_o whole_a the_o church_n ever_o assert_v a_o trinity_n consistent_a with_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n and_o a_o unity_n inseparable_a from_o a_o trinity_n of_o person_n in_o one_o adorable_a and_o divine_a nature_n where_o be_v then_o again_o the_o first_o part_n of_o your_o distinction_n you_o charge_v we_o with_o teach_v a_o trinity_n which_o infer_v three_o go_n we_o say_v this_o be_v false_a this_o be_v impossible_a not_o only_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o also_o from_o a_o authority_n which_o you_o dare_v not_o reject_v because_o you_o own_v yourselves_o that_o it_o be_v the_o high_a tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o can_v lie_v no_o appeal_n socin_n this_o seem_v home_o indeed_o but_o yet_o not_o without_o exception_n for_o the_o unity_n assert_v by_o the_o nicene_n and_o post-nicene_n father_n be_v only_o a_o unity_n of_o monarchy_n a_o unity_n of_o love_n and_o agreement_n a_o unity_n of_o subordination_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o who_o be_v the_o first_o god_n such_o a_o unity_n as_o be_v that_o of_o the_o individual_n of_o the_o same_o species_n this_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n be_v positive_a in_o pag._n 75._o he_o charge_v the_o father_n with_o this_o all_o over_o his_o 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this_o as_o a_o principle_n in_o their_o barbarous_a way_n of_o speak_v that_o habitus_n fidei_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la discursious_a sed_fw-la animus_n unico_fw-la actu_fw-la fertur_fw-la in_o objectum_fw-la materiale_a propter_fw-la formale_a which_o in_o plain_a english_a be_v this_o that_o faith_n depend_v not_o from_o reason_n and_o discourse_n but_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n by_o the_o same_o act_n embrace_v the_o truth_n propose_v a_o secondary_a sort_n of_o a_o object_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o the_o first_o which_o be_v god_n reveal_v it_o to_o we_o of_o the_o second_o sort_n be_v whatsoever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n but_o only_o serve_v to_o illustrate_v and_o confirm_v to_o defend_v and_o propagate_v it_o all_o our_o argument_n be_v the_o product_n of_o reason_n there_o be_v a_o divine_a oeconomy_n and_o coherence_n in_o the_o sacred_a write_n which_o it_o perceive_v and_o from_o which_o it_o draw_v inference_n a_o analogy_n of_o faith_n which_o by_o the_o concord_n and_o relation_n of_o the_o several_a part_n make_v up_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o divinity_n it_o be_v a_o judicious_a observation_n of_o st._n austin_n de_fw-fr trin._n lib._n 14._o c._n 1._o that_o as_o there_o be_v thing_n which_o can_v never_o be_v understand_v except_o they_o be_v believe_v so_o there_o be_v thing_n which_o can_v never_o be_v believe_v except_o they_o be_v understand_v and_o such_o be_v prophecy_n of_o which_o it_o be_v say_v 2_o pet._n 1.19_o we_o have_v also_o a_o more_o sure_a word_n of_o prophecy_n whereunto_o you_o do_v well_o that_o you_o take_v heed_n as_o unto_o a_o light_n that_o shine_v in_o a_o dark_a place_n until_o the_o day_n dawn_n and_o the_o day_n star_n arise_v in_o your_o heart_n a_o prophecy_n can_v be_v believe_v except_o reason_n have_v make_v way_n to_o faith_n by_o be_v convince_v of_o its_o accomplishment_n thus_o christ_n argue_v luk._n 24.44_o these_o be_v the_o word_n which_o i_o speak_v to_o you_o whilst_o i_o be_v with_o you_o that_o all_o thing_n must_v be_v fulfil_v which_o be_v write_v in_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n and_o in_o the_o prophet_n and_o in_o the_o psalm_n concern_v i_o for_o though_o prophecy_n have_v the_o sanction_n of_o the_o divine_a authority_n and_o be_v to_o be_v assent_v unto_o even_o as_o to_o its_o future_a accomplishment_n because_o none_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n can_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n yet_o when_o you_o tell_v i_o that_o it_o be_v accomplish_v it_o be_v altogether_o the_o work_n of_o my_o reason_n to_o examine_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o god_n by_o his_o prophet_n and_o indeed_o by_o the_o two_o first_o dispensation_n that_o of_o nature_n and_o that_o of_o the_o law_n have_v promise_v that_o a_o messiah_n shall_v come_v for_o the_o redemption_n of_o mankind_n the_o prophecy_n concern_v he_o be_v many_o and_o express_v some_o describe_v his_o nature_n other_o his_o person_n some_o his_o miraculous_a work_n other_o his_o heavenly_a doctrine_n some_o the_o time_n and_o place_n of_o his_o come_n other_o his_o life_n death_n resurrection_n ascension_n etc._n etc._n all_o this_o be_v true_a and_o antecedent_o command_v our_o belief_n because_o god_n have_v speak_v it_o but_o whether_o this_o or_o that_o person_n be_v the_o messiah_n must_v depend_v from_o a_o examination_n in_o who_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v fullfil_v whether_o in_o this_o or_o that_o man._n and_o this_o be_v certain_o the_o work_n of_o reason_n the_o same_o must_v be_v say_v of_o miracle_n there_o be_v not_o a_o more_o forcible_a argument_n that_o the_o author_n of_o nature_n have_v reveal_v a_o doctrine_n than_o when_o he_o alter_v or_o suspend_v its_o ordinary_a course_n to_o confirm_v it_o but_o still_o i_o have_v a_o liberty_n to_o try_v whether_o the_o spirit_n be_v of_o god_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o real_a miracle_n and_o not_o a_o illusion_n whether_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n be_v true_a thus_o act._n