that I never had any acquaintance or dealing with neither have I beene in his company to my knowledge one halfe houre together in my life nor have spoken two words with him these twenty yeares at least but onely about three or foure yeares agoe I having heard that he had threatned me spake to him at a Book-sellers stall in Cheape-side who heard what I said unto him And secondly for Robroughs testimony as touching an Epistleto the Church of Rome I confesse I have seen read such a Booke which was published in the yeare 1588. when I was not eighteene yeares of age and therefore farre unable to write such a book as I am still I confesse So that I could not possible be the Author thereof And whereas Robrough directeth to the ninth page of the said booke for proofe of his deposition where the Author having described to the Church of Rome the true Church of God and her true children sayth himselfe being as it seemeth then in Rome And yet thou sayest let me see her Behold be that writeth testifieth before the Throne of God and all his holy Angels that hee knoweth no one this day after the flesh that taketh part with him what then shall I say I am left alone God forbid for I see and heare with the eares and eyes of my soule the groanes the chaynes and teares of seven thousand whose obedience is greater then mine and of which number I am the least and as a poore and miserable and borne out of time am not worthy to be one of them and this is she who once Balam walkes in thy streets and all the earth was filled with her beauty c. And a little before in the same page of the booke he sayeth Whose modest countenance whose chast and comely steps walke in our streets c. meaning here in England himselfe being an English man So that Henry Robrough doth here also declare himselfe to be a very evill minded man in severall respects First in that hee altereth the Authors words where he sayeth That he knoweth no one this day after the flesh that taketh part with him and sets it downe that hee knoweth no man in the flesh that holdeth with him as if the Author meant and affirmed that there was no man living of his opinion so altering not onely his words but his very intent and meaning to another purpose for so it is set downe in the Briefe that was read to the Court that I affirmed that there was no man of my opinion but my selfe Secondly in that hee leaveth the words going before and comming after which doe plainely shew that he speaketh not of his opinion but of his sorrow and teares of repentance and therefore sayeth that he saw and heard with the eares eyes of his soule the groans the chaines and teares of seven thousand whose obedience was greater then his and judges himselfe not worthy to be one of them so that although at that instant he knew no one after the flesh yet he saw thousands after the spirit with the eyes of his mind whom hee preferreth before himselfe And thirdly in that the said Robrough deposeth and would prove by the said page of the said booke that I am the Author thereof that so by making himselfe another false witnesse with Okey he might accomplish Okeys vow against me that hee would never leave me till hee made me frie For Okey deposeth as it seemeth from the same page of the said book judging also me to be the Author that I affirmed that I was as Elyas left alone Whereupon the voyce of one Bishop in the passing sentence against me was that I should goe the same way to heaven that Elyas went through fire though he thought he said I should never come there as Elias did whereas the Author doth not say hee was as Elyas left alone but what then shall I say I am left alone God forbid which is the cleane contrary and therefore these two evill men as before with the rest of their fellowes so here from the fountaine and evill treasure of their hearts they have brought forth their evill and bitter fruit which any judicious Christian may perceive And whereas I am charged to have used many reproachfull speeches of the Ministers of the Church of England which though they be not set downe in the Sentence yet they are in their testimonies the speeches are these that there is a generation of Pharisees among the Ministers of the Church of England They that testifie to this are Peter Worcester and Susan Price and the Ministers that I should use these speeches of Susan Price nameth Master Denison and Master Robrough for the principall and Worcester another whom I will not here name My Answer and Defence I would it were not true that there is a generation of Pharisees among the Ministers as well as among the people and although it be not an usuall thing with me so to speake of any Minister by name yet I might well say it of these two which this woman nameth for principall and doe them no wrong at all and no doubt they have more fellowes else were the Church of England the rarest Church that ever was in the world And lastly whereas they charge me that I have by this meanes drawne many from the Church of England to be Schismaticks and Separatists and caused them or some of them to forbeare to participate with us c. My Answer and Defence is This is a very false accusation not withstanding their mouthes be all open to witnesse it First for my selfe it is well knowne in all places where I have lived what my behaviour hath beene For so it is that since the beginning of the yeare 1588. now above these forty yeares I have lived in or nere unto the Citty of London and untill now that Master Denison and his Sociats had thus prosecuted against me I was never presented nor once complained of for any neglect or ill carriage towards the Church of Englands either in one respect or other and that I have frequented the publike Assemblies and Sacraments for neere twenty yeares last past before my imprisonment I have sufficient Certificate and testimony for proofe of the same which I had ready to shew to the Court if my defence had beene admitted and I never was in any private Assembly in my life where I have either received the Sacrament my selfe nor seene it done by others So that for mine owne part I am neither Schismaticke nor Separatist And for others I know there is not a man living that can truely say much lesse depose that I have drawne or caused any one to Schisme or Separation from the Church of England not to refuse to participate either in Prayers Preaching or Sacraments nay I am sure that neither Master Denison nor all the enemies else I have in the world are able to bring forth one But on the Contrary there be sundry can witnesse that I
That outward Ordination of a Minister doth not make a true Minister Deposed by Henry Robiough from the foresaid booke against Anabaptists To which I answer and confesse that the words are in the place of the booke and I am not afraid to justifie them to be truth agreeing with the Scriptures and with the Doctrine of the Church of England as I meant them I doe not say that out ward Ordination of a Minister doth not make a lawfull Minister outwardly nay I acknowledge it doth So as that hee may lawfully Minister and people may lawfully receive the word and Sacraments with him according to the 26. and 36. Articles of the Church of England and as it was in the Apostles times and in the Church of the Iewes with Christs approbation But this I say that outward Ordination doth not make a true and faithfull Minister inwardly in Gods accounts he may be a deceiver a false Prophet an Antichrist notwithstanding which they that are true in Gods account called and sanctified of him by a more speciall heavenly inward calling may not for they are built upon the Rocke the gates of hell shall not prevaile against them Otherwise if outward Ordination of a Minister did make a true Minister inwardly in Gods account then all they of the Church of Rome must needs be true Ministers for they have outward Ordination as they have also outward Baptisme and such as wee doe not hold needfull to be cast off if any come out from them and receive another outward Ordination and Baptisme before they may administer or be received for true Ministers or true Christians as the Anabaptists opinions is So that of necessity there must be some more excellent thing or things besides outward Ordination and outward Baptisme to make a true Minister and a true Christian in Gods account Neither were the words spoken or given in a private Conventicle to adherents or disciples of mine as my doctrine to them as my answers seeme to depose or at least as the Register set it downe and is in the Sentence But they were written in defence of the calling of the Ministers of the Church of England and of the Sacrament of Baptisme here administred against the Separatists and Anabaptists who denyed the same and was published in print with licence of the Bishop of London being first viewed over by himselfe and by his appointment by Master Crashaw then Minister of White-Chappell who did also approve of the same and suscribe to them which is well knowne to be true And this deponent Henry Robrough chargeth me further saying That hee knoweth the Articulate Etherington doth teach and maintaine opinions which doe derogate from the Iurisdiction of Bishops because he interpreteth that place of Scripture Math 18. Tell the Church to be understood of the little ones borne of God as in his booke against Separatists page 74. To which I answer That if Master Robrough can and when he shall infallibly prove as he doth here in effect sweare that Bishops are not not can be of the little ones borne of God spoken of in Mat. 18. then will I grant his deposition to be true in the meane time hee proveth himselfe a false accuser and one that denieth Bishops to be of the holy Catholicke Church of Christ which I doe not For although it be true that the little ones borne of God the lively stones built on the head corner-stone Iesus Christ be the true Church of Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile and to which Christ hath given the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven as in Mat. 16. and Matt. 18. and 1 Pet. 2. and other Scriptures is evident And that the places and Iurisdictions of Bishops be now great and great and high places be dangerous and slippery places as the Scriptures speake and experience lamentable hath a long time and often proved yet notwithding I undoubtedly beleeve that Bishops have been or may and shall be found to be of the little ones borne of God and so of Christ true Church against which the gates of hell shall not prevayle c. When many a one of as low a place in the Church as Master Robrough shall come short of being of that number For I know that he that is greatest may be as the least and he that is chiefe as him that serveth according to the word and commandement of Christ And it greatly concerneth every such one so to be and to beare with his weake Christian brother and not to constraine him with any kind of violence either in words or deeds to doe things against his conscience which he is not nor can yet be perswaded of though otherwise lawfull because whatsoever is not of faith is sinne That so ruling in wisedome and judging alwayes righteous judgement instructing with truth in the spirit of meekenesse and love shewing mercy with good works of charity hee may receive double honour of his Christian brethren and so continuing be found one of those of whom Christ sayeth Blessed is that Servant whom his Lord when he commeth shall find so doing But otherwise if any one so intrusted in place of authority shall begin to smite his fellowes to eate and drinke with the drunken c. the same servants Lord will come in a day that hee is not aware of c. and will hew him in peeces and give him his portion with hyporites And Iohn Okey the man that vowed hee would not leave me till he made me fry to this of the fourth Article he deposeth saying That he knoweth that the said Etherington held that hee was as Elias left alone and that he knew none to be of the visible Church of God but himselfe These are Okeys words as they stand in the deposition which in the Briefe that was read to the Court are altered and set downe thus That within the time articulate the said Etherington hath affirmed that he was as Elyas left alone and that he knew none of the visible Church of God but himselfe And to this deposition of Okeys is also added another of Henry Robroughs his words as they stand in the briefe which was read to the Court are these That the Author of the Epistle to the Church of Rome viz. Iohn Etherington affirmeth that he knoweth no man in the flesh that holdeth with him That the said Etherington is the Author of the book intituled The Epistle to the Church of Rome looke page 9. My Answer and Defence First for the words of Okey they are a very false accusation in both places I never held neither affirmed nor thought any such thing of my selfe but doe hold it a vile and wicked thing for any man so to thinke much more to affirme to himselfe or of any other How Okey knoweth that I held this of my selfe which he deposeth in the first place or who heard me affirme so of my selfe in the second place he mentioneth not And for him he is a man
of December 1623 they are very carefull to have set down because they would not have King Iames his pardon by any means to relieve me against their wicked conspiracy And Henry Robrowgh he sayth not that I have often times taken upon me to expound sundry places of Scripture and to instruct many persons in his presence and hearing c. Which he might have deposed as safely as they having all one and the same ground hereby seeming to have some more honesty in him But that I professe my selfe to be a man able and sets downe the reason thereof to be because I have opposed some Ministers in disputation naming himselfe onely and the writing that passed betweene him and me for proofe thereof Whereas as it is well knowne he was the man that desired it and promised faire and friendly proceeding though he now hath shewed himselfe otherwise and mentioning also my printed bookes as in his deposition for further ground As if a man may not reason or dispute with a Minister nor speake or write of Religion or of the Scriptures but he therein taketh upon him as a teacher or instructer and professeth himselfe to be a man able for this is the thing Robrowgh drives at as well as Thomson and Rogers to prove against me to the Court which for my part I never did professe nor take upon me although I know a man may through the grace and gift of God be in some measure able that dareth presume to take the office name or profession of a Teacher or Instructer upon him And such gifts of God as to prophecy if in a man of the lowest degree place or calling in the Church of God Shepheard Clown Carpenter or other ought not to be dispised or envied at for his low estate or meannesse of his person sake Nay a greater Messenger of God then ever Mr. Robrowgh was or will be sayd once of some that for the same causes were so envied and complained of I would that not onely they but the whole host of Israel did prophecy And St. Paul sayth without excepting the meanest artificer Desire the best gifts and chiefly that yee may prophecy Mr. Robrowgh forgets that they were but envious scorners though Scribes and Pharises who once upon such tearmes so slighted and dispised the Lord himselfe his works and words So that Mr. R. comes nothing short of Thomson and Rogers in false witnes-bearing and scorning I will not equall him with the old Scribes and Pharises because of the honour and grace of him whom they so dispised And for Nicholson the other witnesse a man that I was never in any sort conversant with nor have had one halfe houres time of speech with in my life whose testimony therefore is altogether as he hath heard and beleeveth and so what he hath heard and beleeveth he presumeth to sweare what those new or strange poynts of doctrine are in his deposition he nameth not nor any one of those sundry persons that I should expound the Scriptures unto whom he calls my proselites and followers and me their Teacher in matter of doctrine But howsoever though his deposition be but upon hearesay onely and as he verily beleeveth yet the Court hath so credited his testimony that the most of the words and matters of this first accusation in the sentence are his words and grounded chiefly upon his deposition and so he is and will be found a false witnesse like the rest and the Count I suppose cannot be excused but I referre all to the understanding Reader to judge how rightly I have been dealt withall by my accusers and the Court But now let me yet give the Reader a little further to understand That before Mr. Denison began his suite in Court against me after he had begun to revile me in his Pulpits and I having used all meanes both by writing and friends of his and my own to speake with him to informe him rightly of things concerning my selfe and my minde in matters of Religion before some men of understanding that they might heare and discerne truly thereof and so pacifie him and stay his violent course and could by no meanes obtaine either the one or the other but that he still persisted both at Cree-Church and great Allhallowes for neere halfe a yeare together reviling me by name in most bitter manner calling me Viper Serpent Heretique Familist and many other vile reproachfull and scandalous names unseemly to be spoken and shamefull to be uttered by a Minister in a Pulpit and charging me with many very false and wicked things and saying to the people This is one Etherington a Box-maker whither he be dead or alive with God or the devill I cannot tell I know him not if I meet him in my dish c. And utterly refusing still to be spoken with gave out in his Pulpit as a flat deniall saying Must I speake with every Heretique before I may reprove him openly nay it hath been told me by them of the houshold of Cloe and I beleeve it to be true Then I being much urged and provoked by reason of some that began to conceive and say If things were not so and that I were not such a one as he had charged me to be I would complaine Hereupon I confesse I did complaine by Petition to Doctor Martin who was then Chancellor for so I was advised certifying him how matters had passed and requesting that he would send for Mr. Denison and examine the reason of his so strange and unlawfull proceedings and to stay the same and appoint that the things of difference in opinion or howsoever might be heard before some Ministers if he thought fit to which he answered You have brought me here a strange Petition I know Mr. Denison to be a very honest man I know not you I will not send for him Dic ecclesia Then as thinking it but my dutie to seeke to the Rulers of the people whose office is to defend the innocent and to rebuke the offenders and as hoping still things would be heard examined and ended in peace I did complaine to the Bishop of London to the same effect who granted my Petition and sent for Mr. Denison who at the time appointed came bringing with him his friend Mr. Robrowgh to assist him And so the Bishop having questioned some thing about the matter and a little blaming him spake when to have another time of hearing which Mr. Denison presently opposed saying I meant to have had him into the high Commission Court if he had not prevented me Dr. Martin being also there present and speaking to his purpose as his speciall friend furthering his motion the Bishop answered you may then doe so yet which when I perceived and that Mr. D. had such a friend of Dr. Martin I did with as much speed as I could Petition to the Archbishop of Canterbury certifying him also how things had passed and requesting that he would be pleased to send for
he hath often conversed with me c. yet nameth nothing that he hath heard me say or knowne me practice or doe in all this his said time of twenty yeares tending to that purpose or any other As it the Court would trust to their understandings of the discipline government and to their judgements and conceivings of my opinions and not heare the opinions nor a word or practise mentioned and so passe sentence for who can know a mans affections but by his words or deeds First for Dunne I will excuse him in this that he nameth neither word nor deed because the truth is he never conversed with me in his life nor I with him neither had I ever any kinde of dealing with him in my life except onely that about nineteene or twenty yeares agoe my wife having sore eyes he came by whose meanes I know not and laid something to them for which I payed him So that Dunne could not well name any thing upon the ground of often conversing with me yet he is a false witnesse neverthelesse and a foresworne man every way to his owne knowledge first in this That he upon his oath saith he well knoweth that which he knows he knoweth not and sets downe that for his reason and ground upon oath also which he knowes is false There are other matters wherein George Dunne hath upon his oath also testified falsly which because they are not taken for proofe of any thing conteined in the Sentence I passe them over untill some further occasion But for Thomson and Rogers they might have named what the opinions had beene for they heard me maintaine them they say It seemeth they meane by opinions those before mentioned against Robrowgh and Denison which Rogers calleth the received judgement of the said Church as holding their doctrine to be the discipline and government of the Church of England for such a devoted conceit have they of these two men and some other of their straine as if the Church of England doctrine government discipline and all matters else thereof did consist in them for it is to be noted that these words Now by Law established which are in the Sentence are not in any of their testimonies But I leave the testimonies of these men to the consideration of the understanding Reader to judge how good and sufficient they are and how judicially the Court hath proceeded against me to condemne me upon such evidence And as touching the second part of this second Article passed in the Sentence That I doe agree with the sect of the Familists and other Sectaries c. Rowland Thomson Thomas Rogers Henry Robrowgh doe testifie The testimony of Thomson That the said Etherington doth agree with some of the Sectaries articulate in many tenents and opinions which he this deponent knoweth in regard he hath been present when he the said Etherington hath strived to maintaine the same The testimony of Rogers That he the sayd Etherington doth agree in some points and tenents with the Familists articulate which he hath published in this deponents presence The testimony of Robrowgh That the said Etherington concurreth with the Separatists and Sectaries in private Assemblies which this deponent knoweth by report and also by his printed booke against Separatists where he sayth Caesar may command a place in publique so he forbid none in private Page 82. and he agreeth with the Familists in the perfect puritie of the soule after regeneration as one Iesop confessed to this deponent to be his and the said Etheringtons opinion My answer and defence Thomson pretends now to speake upon knowledge as well as Rogers their grounds are both one The one saith he hath heard me strive to maintaine the other to publish tenents and opinions and both of them like brethren in evill are still agreed to forbeare to tell what the tenents and opinions are least by naming them they should disable their testimonies to their purpose No doubt they are the tenents and opinions before mentioned which Mr. Denison had told them in his Pulpits was a sure mark whereby they should know a Familist and so they presumed upon his judgement and by concealing what the tenents are make them serve their turne for this as well as to be against the government and discipline how sufficient the testimonies of these two men are to prove the things in the Sentence and how concionably they have dealt I referre to the Christian Reader to consider My defence against Robrowghs testimony To the first concerning private Assemblies What Mr. R. knowes by report that he may safely depose and say So God helpe him I refer to the Reader to consider But where he sayth And also by his printed booke against Separatists c. I confesse I wrote such a booke which being allowed was published in the yeare 1610. where in Pag. 82. these words are Caesar may command a place for the publique so he forbid none in private yet neverthelesse Mr. Robrowgh hath shewed himselfe a very evill minded man in two respects first in that he leaveth out the words and matters going before and following after in the said booke which would have cleared my meaning more fully and taketh onely those words as may most seeme to make for his purpose And secondly in this that whereas my words are Caesar may command a place for the publique so he forbid none in private he gives it into the Court upon his oath Caesar may command a place in publique c. leaving out two of my words and putting in one of his owne in stead of them to alter the scope and intent of those few words which he doth take to make them serve his turne against me for who knoweth not that the leaving out or changing one word for another in a sentence doth oftentimes alter the intent and scope thereof as to build a house in a Citie and to build a house for a Citie are two differing things the King may build a house in the Citie of London for his owne use but if the King say I build this house for the Citie of London all men will understand he meaneth for the Cities use againe the King may command a place in publique for himselfe to come and worship God therein but to command a place for the publique is for the people also publiquely So whereas I say Caesar may command a place for the publique my meaning is that the King may lawfully with authoritie from God and warrant from his word command a place and places for the publique worship of God to all his Subjects in and throughout all parts of his Dominions which if the King may and that my words doe intend and expresse so much as I thinke no man that is wise and conscionable will deny then all the Kings subjects are bound to obey the King and come to the publique worship of God in those publique places and as it is for place so it is for time and other
false and very erroneous doctrine and to be a dangerous step of falling from Christ for Saint Paul testifieth plainly that the Gentiles which had not that Law of Circumcision and the Sabbaths c. might have the truth and effect thereof in their hearts and be a Iew inwardly in the spirit though not outwardly in the flesh so that there was never such a necessity as those false Teachers taught and most part of the Jewes conceived nay they ought to have knowne that although themselves that had the Law to whom especially it was given were bound to observe it to the utter-most of their power yet if they fayled in any part as all did in many and so in all parts they might be saved another way through the grace and mercy of God in the Gospell and that of this there was alwayes a necessitie and without the same no man could be saved and that a Gentile having the same grace should be saved though he were ignorant of the Law for this is the effect which was signified by those signes and shadowes which are now as it was a law to the Iewes ceased to Christians Unto all this doe agree the best approved writers of the Christian Church both of the antient and latter sâ—â—ce the Apostles times as Hierome upon Gal. 4. Augustine in his Epistles ch. 19. and in his booke Conscientiae Diaeta and of the Spirit and letter chap. 14. and upon these words of Christ Take up thy bed and walke Tract. 17. Tertullian also in his booke Adversus Iudaeâ—s and others And of the latter Master Tindall in his answer to Master Moores first booke page 287. Doctor Barnes in declaration of the cause of his condemnation page 106. Master Fâ—ith in his declaration of Baptisme page 96. Master Calvin and others and as it is contayned in the Harmony of consessions of the Reformed Churches page 473. and page 499. besides sundry writers of this present age So that in this I am not singular though I differ from Master Denison Their fift accusation That the Bookes of Esdras are and ought to be esteemed part of the Canonicall Scripture They that testifie to this are Rowland Tomson and Susan Price their testimonies are both according to the words of the Sentence My Answer and defence Their testimonies to this also as they have given it into the Court are false for I never said that the two last Bookes of Esdras which it seemeth they meane are or ought to be held canonicall or part of the canonicall Scripture But this I say and doe beleeve that Esdras was a holy Prophet and true servant of God and that those his two last Bookes are as well as the rest holy and true as sundry Divines have esteemed him and written of them and one Booke now publike Printed first in Queene Elizabeths dayes and presented to the Lord Robert Devoreux Earle of Essex upon the 11. chap of the last Booke of Esdras wherein matters of great moment are manifested worthy I dare say to be regarded of every true Christian that desires understanding And I dare say further that they have done and doe very wickedly which rayle against him calling and counting him a counterfeit a lyer a blasphemer as some have done it had beene farre more wisdome for them to have left him in these his last Bookes and suspended their judgements untill time the tryer and discoverer of truth from falshood should manifest things more clearely that so upon cleare proofe of experience they might have judged rightly of that which through want of understanding they could see before Their sixt accusation as it is in the Sentence That the said Iohn Etherington within the time aforesaid hath kept private Conventicles or exercises of Religion by the Lawes of the Realme prohibited and taken upon him in such Conventicles to be the chiefe speaker or expoundâ—r of the Scripture and hath many adherents disciples and followers of his doctrine and giveth many oppositions contrary to the received opinions taught in the Church of England saying that outward ordination of a Minister doth snot make a true Minister And hath useth many reproachfull speeches to and of the Ministers of the Church of England And by this meanes hath seduced and drawn many from th Church of England to be Scismatiques and separatists and caused them or some of them to forbeare to participate with us in the celebrating of Devine service and Sacraments They that testifie to this are Rowland Tomson Thomas Rogers Christopher Nâ—cholson Peter Worcester Susan Price Henry Robrough Iohn Okey George Dunne Here like pursuers of blood they cry out together with open mouth as if they meant now at last to swallow me up quite and cleane this being the maine toyle which they from the beginning had layed whereby above all they made sure account to take me Their depositions to this sixt Accusation are not onely many but so long and tedious that if I should set them all downe with answers to every particular thing in them it would require more time and space then all that is already past and would weary any sober mind to read them over I will therefore give my answer defence to that which is contained in the words of the Sentence as being the maine and summe of all as also to the chiefe of their depositions and leave the rest untill some further occasion shall serve My Answer and Defence To the first concerning private Conventicles and exercises of Religion by the Lawes of this Realme prohibited my answer is It is a false accusation I never kept any such nor have done otherwise then I have acknowledged in my Defence to their first Article as one Christian neighbour or friend may and ought to doe to and with another which I am out of all doubt the lawes of this Realme doe not forbid neither I hope ever will And secondly whereas they say that I take upon me to be a chiefe speaker or expounder of the Scriptures and to have many adherents disciples and followers c. My answer is They charge me in this also very falsely I am so farre from taking upon me such things as that I doe reject the very thought thereof in my selfe especially and have opposed and reproved such as have so done and beene so affected as some can witnesse although I confesse I have beene free and alwayes ready to speake to my neighbour and friend and children c. whatsoever I have knowne and understood of the word and wayes of God as I have beene also to heare and recite and so I hope I shall continue to doe as time and occasion shall serve so long as I live Thirdly in that they charge me to give many expositions contrary to the received opinions taught in the Church of England The chiefe besides those before mentioned of Repentance c. which I confesse are contrary to Mâ—ster Denisons and Robroughs doctrine being as it seemeth this contained in the Sentence