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A04434 The svmme and svbstance of the conference which, it pleased his excellent Maiestie to haue with the lords, bishops, and other of his clergie, (at vvhich the most of the lordes of the councell were present) in his Maiesties priuy-chamber, at Hampton Court. Ianuary 14. 1603. / Contracted by VVilliam Barlovv, Doctor of Diuinity, and Deane of Chester. Whereunto are added, some copies, (scattered abroad,) vnsauory, and vntrue. Barlow, William, d. 1613. 1604 (1604) STC 1456.5; ESTC S100949 36,617 118

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sayeth his Maiestie was best but where it might not bee had godly prayers and exhortations did much good That that may be done let it and let the rest that cannot bee tollerated Somewhat was here spoken by the Lord Chancelor of liuinges rather wanting learned men then learned men liuinges Many in the Vniuersities pining Maisters Batchelors and vpwardes wishing therefore that some might haue single coates before other had dublets here his L. shewed the course that hee had euer taken in bestowing the Kinges Benefices My Lord of London commending his Honourable care that way withall excepted that a dublet was necessary in cold weather the L. Chancelor replied that he did it not for dislike of the libertie of our Church in granting one man 2. benefices but out of his owne priuate purpose and practise groūded vpō the foresaid reason The last motion by my L. of London was that Pulpits might not be made Pasquilles wherein euery humorous or discontented fellow might traduce his superiours Which the King very gratiously accepted exceedingly reprouing that as a lewde custome threatning that if hee should but heare of such a one in a Pulpit hee would make him an example concluding with a sage admonition to the Opponents that euery man shoulde solicite and drawe his friendes to make peace and if anything were amisse in the Church officers not to make the Pulpit the place of personall reproofe but to let his Maiestie heare of it yet by degrees First let Complaint be to the Ordinarie of the place from him to goe to the Archbishoppe from him to the Lordes of his Maiesties Councell and from them if in all these places no remedie is founde to his owne selfe Which Caueat his Maiestie put in for that the Bishop of London had tolde him that if hee left himselfe open to admit of all complaints neither his Maiestie should euer bee quiet nor his vnder Officers regarded seeing that now alreadie no fault can bee censured but presently the Delinquent threatneth a complaint to the King and for an instance he added how a Printer whome hee had taken faulty very lately answered him in that very kinde D. Reyn. commeth now to Subscription which concerneth the fourth generall heade as hee first propounded it namely The Communion booke taking occasion to leape into it here as making the vrging of it to be a great impeachment to a learned Ministery therefore intreated it might not be exacted as heretofore for which many good men were kept out other remoued many disquieted To subscribe according to the statutes of the Realme namely to the Articles of Religion and the Kinges Supremacy they were not vnwilling The reason of their backwardnesse to subscribe otherwise was first the bookes Apocryphall which the Common Praier booke enioyned to bee reade in the Church albeit there are in some of those Chapters appointed manifest errors directly repugnāt to the scriptures the particular instance which hee then inferred was Eccles. 48. 10. where hee charged the author of that booke to haue held the same opinion with the Iewes at this day namely that Elias in person was to come before Christ and therefore as yet Christ by that reason not come in the flesh and so consequently it implyed a denial of the chief Article of our redemption his reason of thus charging the Authour was because that Ecclus. vsed the very wordes of Elias in person which the Prophet Malachy Chap. 4. doth apply to an Elias in resemblance which both an angell Luke 1. 17. and our Sauiour Christ Math. 11. did interprete to be Iohn Baptist. The answere was as the obiection twofold First generall for Apocrypha bookes The Bishop of London shewing first for the antiquitie of them that the most of the obiections made against those bookes were the old Cauils of the Iewes renewed by S. Hierome in his time who was the first that gaue them the name of Apocrypha which opinion vpon Ruffinus his chalenge hee after a sort disclaimed the rather because a generall offence was taken at his speeches in that kinde First for the continuāce of them in the Church out of Kimidoncius and Chemnitius two moderne writers The Bishoppe of Winton remembred the distinction of Saint Ierome Canonici sunt ad informandos mores non ad confirmandam fidem which distinction hee saide must be held for the iustifying of sundry Councels His Maiestie in the ende saide hee would take an euen order betweene both affirming that hee woulde not wish all Canonicall bookes to be read in the Church vnlesse there were one to interprete nor any Apocrypha at all wherein there was any error but for the other which were cleare correspondent to the scriptures he would haue them read for else sayeth his Maiestie why were they printed and therein shewed the vse of the Bookes of Machabees very good to make vp the story of the persecution of the Iewes but not to teach a man either to sacrifice for the dead or to kill himselfe And here his Highnesse arose from his chaire withdrew himself into his inner chamber a little space in the meane time a great questioning was amōgst the Lords about that place of Eccles. with which as if it had beene their rest and vpshot they beganne afresh at his Maiesties returne Who seeing them so to vrge it and stand vpon it calling for a Bible first shewed the author of that booke who hee was then the cause why hee wrote that booke next analyzed the Chapter it selfe shewing the precedentes and consequentes thereof lastly so exactly and diuinelike vnfolded the summe of that place arguing and demonstrating that whatsoeuer Ben Sirach had saide there of Elias Elias had in his owne person while hee liued performed and accomplished so that the Susurrus at the first mention was not so great as the astonishment was now at the King his so sodaine and sound and indeede so admirable an interpretation concluding first with a serious checke to Doctor Reynaldes that it was not good to impose vpon a man that was dead a sense neuer meant by him secondly with a pleasant Apostrophe to the Lordes What trowe yee makes these men so angry with Ecclesiasticus by my soule I thinke hee was a Bishoppe or else they would neuer vse him so But for the generall it was appointed by his Maiestie that Doctor Reyn. should note those chapters in the Apocrypha bookes where those offensiue places were and should bring them vnto the Lord Archshop of Canterburie against VVednesday next and so he was willed to goe on The next scruple against Subscription was that olde Crambe bis posita that in the Common Prayer booke it is twise set downe Iesus saide to his Disciples when as by the text originall it is plaine that he spake to the Pharisies To which it was aunswered that for ought that coulde appeare by the places hee might speake aswell to his Disciples they beeing present as to the Pharisees But his