Secondly Nay stop Friend said the Judge keep the other Eleven to thy self that one is sufficient I think of this sometimes when writing Did I ever Question worthy Sir whether ever God made or impos'd Forms of Psalms that you tell me were used in the Temple No sure I thought Singing and Praying had been distinct Duties Else some distinguish where is no difference God made these Forms under the Law and reinforced them in the New Testament without his Institution the thing had been an Abomination as would have been once Circumcision and the Passover and now Baptism and the Lords Supper without this You urge 2 Cron. 29.30 I Answer we doubt not but the Church may require what God hath Commanded for it is there said All was done by the Commandment of the King from the Mouth of the Lord Chap. 31.25 The Writer of the Lamentations was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and therefore what Jeremy did he did from God As what the Apostles did they did from Christ who in his 40 Days Conversing with them after his Resurrection taught them the things pertaining to the Kingdom of God that is the Government of the Church Jeremiah required the People to use Scripture The Lamentations Therefore what I know not who may make Prayers and broken ones too for them who have a readiness to express themselves to God as occasion is I will not say the Argument taken from the Lamentations look's like a lamentable Argument it is not Grave enough in it self and therefore not fit to be written to so Grave a Man For 1 Bar. 14.15 I am so much a Protestant and so little a Papist that I slight it We can no more know the Mind of God by the Practise of the Jews than the Mind of Christ by the Practise of the Papist or some others who would take it ill to be named with them God's mind is my enquiry not their practise Forms of Prayer came from Babylon say you you shall have it say I. The reading Apocraphal Books in Churches Hooker in his Eccles. Pol. could hardly forbear Censureing it I think it was one of the most Devilish designs Satan ever had to clap those Books at the end of the Old Testament to ridicule the whole To say nothing of the Book of Tobit or Esdras which Bellarmin would hardly undertake to plead for I stick not to say of the admired Book of Wisdom said by some to be so much like Inspir'd Writings That the Author was a grand R who tells us of Solomon's Prayer to God that he might Govern according to the Example of David his Father Must the Writings of Philo a Jew written after the Jews were unchurched an unbelieveing lying Prophet be read with Canonical Scripture and as Lessons Let us bring in George Fox's Journal next I could say much of the Book Bar. you cite were it convenient You urge Dan. 3. Ergo What Men must pray not read and that according to the Ability God gives would be a better Consequence than what it is brought for 136 Psalm you urge I say It was a Psalm and for your Te Deum keep us this day without Sin had need be well qualified to keep Men from Quakerist Dotages about a Sinless State 2 Cron. 5.3 Proves not it was the same Psalm If it were it proves nothing to our Argument much less 7 Chap. 3. Did David never say but in that Psalm For he is good and his mercy endureth for ever 20 Chap. 21. The Argument is ejusdem farinae so Ezra 3.11 Your Opinion is only asserted by a common Saying not proved If it were no more would follow but this that the same Psalm may be often sung which no Man denies Numb 10.35 compared by you with 163 Psalm 8. Induceth me to think they used not the same Words but some and the other place proves it 2 Cron. 6.41 The use of a Sentence or two upon extraordinary occasions appointed by God will not prove the use of Set Solemn many Prayers in all Publick Administrations appointed by Men. The Jews never had a Liturgy the Book of Psalms was hardly ever pleaded in this Argument by the Old Famous Advocates for the Church of England but by some late and less judicious Writers I remember I have heard that Bishop Andrews was about to Print in Oxon a Liturgy of the Jews to prove they had one under the Law but it was stopt from going to the Press being proved to be made by them since their Apostacy Of all Men under Heaven none care to go to the present Jews for a Pattern of Worship unless such as love indecency and disorder instead of the contrary so much talkt of What you write of Schism 1 wonder at what Church invite and call you me to Is not the present Church Scismatical according to some Men But I will not harp on that String Will you stand to Mr. Hales's Determination of Schism of whose Opinion I am And therefore believe the now called but falsly so Church of England is a notorious Schismatical one from the Old one in Doctrine Discipline and Manners They are alike in imposing unnecessary things suspiciously evil if not really so which Paul would not do on them he knew could not comply Schism doth not signifie primarily by Paul any Separation from a Church but Heats and Uselesness in it for the Corinthians did not erect Altar against Altar Saith Paul That there be no schism in the body but that the members take care one of another That Minister who Preacheth not in season and out of season is a Schismatick while Preaching against Schism Members of a Church that are not forward for acts of Piety and Charity are Schismaticks Alienation of Affection was condemned by Paul What you mean by plainly and positively a Sin I am not sure What if it be so by Consequence What if I have a doubtful Conscience about it Must I be Damned to obey the Church In short The Apostles Rule is this Let us judge one another no more bear with the infirmities of the weak Despise not him that eateth not Rom 14. No Church on Earth can take me off this Rule whatever Church command◠me otherwise commands me contrary to the Law of Christ by Paul and whom I must obey judge you With you no Kneeling no Sacrament no Cross no Baptism The the Salvation of Infants without Baptism be foolishly I confess questioned Yet run a risk rather than part with a Ceremony Good God what madness doth Superstition bring Men to If the most Religious Man in the Parish cannot kneel he must go without the Lords-Supper all his Days and be Excommunicated and Imprisoned too How shall I Curse whom God hath Blessed Could even a wicked Balaam say as bad as he was These wicked wicked Proceedings against Brethren prove your Church Schismatical or Schism maker with a vengeance Not to name what Ames in his Fresh Suit Gelaspee in his English Popish Ceremonies say with
some of them think it a disgrace to come after Weavers Taylors who made the Pulpits stink of them long agoe It is easy for Men to write Polemical or Practical Books and run to this Author and that Author and make Collections here and there Then take down Pool then some Critick Leigh or any other then Books of the Subjects they Write about When one would think for Men of reading sense and years Their Heads should be their Libraries c. But I must not approaching too near any thing that looks like boasting lest my Friends in the Countrey should think I have been so long in London that I am trouble with the London disease Where Men are charged high 〈◊〉 what is said openly by almost all Eaquire all is denied For lying it is worse then bad The private hearers here are no more judicious then in obscure Corners abroad Every Quack in Physick or Divinity or other thing if he runs to London finâ— it as fit a Receptacle for him as any place whatever To see some Mâ—â— have some of the greatest Congregations in the City whom all know are fit to be sent to School yet these be Censurers of their Brethren and Talkers forsooth of able Men and rousing Men What I pray is that Men of good Lungs that make disfigur'd faces and speak to God as if talking with their Fellows c. To the great grief of the Learned Men that hear them or converse with them And yet these shall Condemn Tradesmen Preaching too I am also told by this work I shall lose many Fâ—iends in the City I Answer It is a great Question whether I have many Friends here to lose I have had many in the place from whence I came and may again have more elsewhere I value Friends Non numero sed pondere My few here may be better then some Mens Many One old true Protestant is worth Ten Innovators Some object They like not this way of writing all should be considered by Arguments from Scripture I answer 1. You like not this way nor the other neither when against your darling corrupt Notions 2. Many wise Men like this way well if you do not an historical Account of Men and their Notions is used by all Is Mr. Lob's Book to be dispised about the jugling Tricks of Arminians and Socinians because he confutes not by Scripture their Doctrine he mentions 3. Must Men run all the same way This is done so well already that much acnnot be added done by a curious Hand 4. Yet I have insistâ—â— upon the chief things from Scripture Look again Many Books said to be New Books have little new but the Title old stale Arguments are mentioned without end I shall not trouble you with an Account what clapt a Supersedeous upon my not appearing sooner only acquaint you that this was ready for the Press almost three Months past For the Controversy now on foot so far as it relates to Matters of Fact I make my self no Judge I have proposed a fair way as the Digladiators both own to bring the Matter to a fair Issue To appoint a convenient Time and Place to debate these Matters agreeing upon Articles before hand to manage all That a Moderator be chosen who shall have Power to appoint to both their time of speaking and to silence hard Words so may we know these Matters of Fact asserted by some denied by others Now we must only enquire when the last Paper will be answered and so might this Controversy take no more Air. One replied This might have been done but that the first Aggressor appearing in Print must be so met with which is true for once But is the Advice now too late I beseech them to think of it I Pray my Reader to consider if there were so many Flaws in that one and but one Sermon I heard from the Reverend Linen-Draper how reasonable it is to think many more are in other wild Discourses of his where he makes not so great a Preparation expecting not such an Auditory yet see the Misery of uncatechised Heads This was applauded by the rude illiterate Mob some of which have the Impudence to ask us What think you we cannot judge of a Minister and his Ability No no more then of a Physician or a Lawyer Such may be a Quack an Emperick as far as you or I know We therefore choose such as are approved of by Men of the same Employ so should we by Ministers of known worth If you must choose your Pastor I hope you must not ordain him they that do it must look well to it That they lay Hands suddenly an no Man and therefore they are judge of their Abilities not you to say We have chosen him and will have him I once lived with a conceited Country Farmer who would tell me If he were in my place he would make the People quale and that he knew one who broke a piece of the Board on which he leaned in his Pulpit O Sirs What do you mean I would often tell him that was a Preacher for him but a Stage-player for me In a place where once I lived was a Man much followed he could Expound the hardest places of Scripture on a suddain One put him that place The Children of Israel shall be many days without a King and without a Priest and without an Ephod and without a Terephim He began without Civil or Ecclesiastical Government as for Ephods and Teraphims Weight and Measures I shall not say much of them He once as is said patching up a Sermon out of Dr. Featly and Dr. Dun their Works one being asked how he liked it said It was featly done A preaching Mealman once told me You must have Ten Shillings a Day when we sometimes have but Twelve Pence To whom I replied This is just as if a Quack in Physick should thus discourse with a Physician And said I Old H. How could'st thou in conscience take the Shilling you should have returned two Groats again Bless me thought I when I heard our Reverend Linen-Draper If this be Gospel I never heard the Gospel preached till now and hope I never shall hear such Gospel more If any ask Why confute I not more what he said because not worth it Must I prove Christ to be a Law-giver c. Or prove Christ gave Commands c. He and Elijah the Barber-Prophet desire it that they may be taken notice of These cry Peace Peace where there is no Peace and sew Cushions under Mens Elbows If Dr. Crisp had been by David he would have informed him better and we had had wonderful Psalms no doubt for David was not well acquainted with the Covenant of Grace c. Luther Thunders against the Antinomians so called in his days in his Table-Talk and yet some have the confidence to tell us Luther was one himself The Man of Sin is call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without Law a Downright Antinomian Jude describes
behaviour and good sound Doctrine some here I am sure deserve the like Commendation Some of these bewail what they cannot help The Preaching of so many ignorant conceited Men among them How can they Analyse that know not what an Analysis is Mr. Delaun His 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath done such Men no small mischief who buy and read but cannot understand What have such to do with a Figure which the Learned Call Synecdoch c. Now mentioning that Gentlemen I have an opportunity to satisfy the World that tho once a Papist he was indeed a Protestant of him I had a large and true Account from one once his Schollar When he wâ—â— Papist in Ireland he would often read the Scripture and when inclineableâ— a Change he accidentally liv'd in the House of an Anabaptist which occasion'd his being such himself This sort of Men here shame some others who more Friendly converse together then other Contenders do Their Coffee-House is like Noahs Ark as I have often told them where are as to Principles in Doctrine Clean and Unclean Beasts Calvinists and Arminians and Antinomians too Singers and Anti singers Some for free Communicating others against it Not but that it could be wisht that their Friendships were greater and that in their Polemicals they would more forbear Personal Reflections A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A Wild Crispian and a Sober Christian Cp. I Am glad to see you my good Brother Ct. I understand not your Salutation for I look not on you aâ—â— Brother but as an Enemy to me and to my Lord Christ Cp. O you are greatly mistaken in me I doubt you do not know me for I am known to talk of nothing more then Christ exalted Ct. Yes and to do nothing more then to debase him and what you can to Dethrone him you take him in one Office I in all three as Prophet and King as well as Priest Cp. Why Man if you observe Providence my very Name may be my Apology for my Name is Crispian which is much like Christian Ct. Yes but you know every like is not the same If you would be witty indeed it might rather prove you to be but a half Christian Is not Christ in the Name Anti-Christ Jesus in the Name Jesuite which is more But what think you if I mention the same Name in Scripture for that that 〈◊〉 most opposite Cp. I â—ray what is that Ct. What think you of the Name God is it not the Name of the moâ—â— High Holy Glorious Being The Maker of all our Benefactour in time and etâ—râ—â—ty Cp. Yâ—â— and what them Ct. Yet is this Name given to the Devil a Name ab officio as well as natura the Hater of the most High the Murtherer of Souls the cursedâ—â— Creature that is Yet he is call'd The God of the World c. Ct. Come then Let us go from Names to Things I doubt you are one of them that assert The Conditionality of the Covenant of Grace with Believers and of Perseverance unto salvation Ct. No I am not but am well satisfied in what the truly Eagle Ey'd Man Mr. Capel hath said against it in a little thing worth Gold bound up with his Book of Temptations Yet all that assert Perseverance are and must be sound in sense whether in Phrases or no. Cp. What is your apprehensions about it Ct. That the word we render Covenant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred Testament Mat. 26.28 And we call the Bible The Old and New Testament 2. That the word Covenant as we render it in Scripture must not imply a Condition as some Blead Gen. 9.9 10 11 12. Gods Covenant not to destroy all Flesh admits of no condition yet of a Sign the Rainbow and that Gods Covenant of Grace with Man is like this Covenant is evidenced by Isaiah As I have Sworn the Waters of Noah shall no more return to drown the Earth c. 3. Heb. 8.10 Where the Covenant is mention'd it is a promise of Grace for I cannot for my heart conceive How a thing should be the matter of a promise and condition of it too Or a thing be the condition of it self 4. God gives the Sign of this to all his own many ways if you will so call it 5. I therefore take what some call Conditions to be not properly but improperly so they are necessary Consequents of Justification and necessary Antecedents to Glorification Cp. Oh Sir I am pleas'd to the Heart to hear you talk so Orthodoxly I suppose you are a Calvinist and some say Calvin and Dr. Crisp are agreed Ct. Yes I am as surely a Protestant for that is the right Name as you are none But they that tell you Those two are one may as soon Reconcile God and Satan Cp. Good Sir some more sound Doctrine I hope you do not own Previous or Preparatory Qualifications to true Grace some Men talk of Ct. Yes I do and yet do not I am of their Opinion and yours too in this point Cp. This is strange and seems impossible I pray explain your self Ct. Mr. Norton in his Orthodox Evangelist spends I confess too much time about this thing and it is the greatest if not only flaw in that sound Learned Book I believe with them it is Gods if not frequent or common yet sometimes way and work and experience proves it but I believe with you it is not his constant work As when Three Thousand were prickt to the Heart immediately converted and baptiz'd I doubt not but the greatest Adulterers Swearers Drunkards that sit down unconverted profane hearers sometimes arise Converted Pardoned ones God suddenly touching and turning their wills And the Kingdom of Heaven is as a Grain of Mustard-seed the least of all Grains Yet grows up to a great Tree that the Birds of the Air lodge in the Branches of it The greatest Oak was once an Acorn and the greatest Giant once an Infant crying in the Cradle and the greatest Schollar once learning his Letters Cp. I hope you own the Elect were ever beloved when in the highth of all their wickedness and that God hath no more to lay to their charge then to the charge of any Saint in Heaven p. 368. Ct. No by no means for the Scriptures say plainly Rom. 9.25 23 24 25 26. There was the Love of purpose or good will for they are said to be prepared unto Glory thou call'd both Jews and Gentiles then his People which were not a People and her beloved which was not beloved And they which were not my People are call'd the Children of God in the same place shall it be said c. Can words be plainer Yet you say they were ever beloved ever a People ever the Children of God Where God is said to Love with an everlasting Love a priori it is of purpose or good will a posteriori it is with Complacency and so beloved Cp. I grant indeed God delighted not in their Sins but Persons Ct. O rare
charged George Fox among other things with this Story That he saw the Blood of Martyrs in the Streets of Litchfield and waded thro their Blood William Pen for declaring as sure as the Lord liveth Thomas Hicks should not go to the Grave in Peace c. Solomon Eccles with Prophesying in the name of the Lord to John Story That he should dye that â—ear because he had set himself against George Fox the Apostle of Jesus Christ c. who lived above four Years after I shall now acquaint you with Objections I have met with from sober Quakers and others and it being so late I hope not to detain you half an Hour 1 Objection Many things they Prophesyed of did come to pass I answer It is enough That many things also did not What if I should now declare in the name of the Lord That Man shall Dye this Year and that man also What if one of them dye will that prove me a true Prophet No the continued Life of the other will prove me a false one What 〈◊〉 I should say Thus saith the Lord To morrow there shall be Rain but the next day none If their be Rain to morrow I am no true Prophet if it Rain also the Day after Many things Muggleton said came to pass but all what the Prophets of the Lord said did so 2 Object Did not the Prophet prophecy falsely when he brought back the other Prophet to Eat and Drink at his own House in the Reign of Jeroboam No Man doubts but a Prophet of the Lord â—â—ay sin and fall before a Temptation as well as other men but he recalled his false Prophecy c. Yet what he was and how far a Prophet dwelling in that Idolatrous place I shall not determine 3 Object George Fox meant he saw Bâ—â—od Visionary and when Edward Burroughs said God could soon Arm thousands of his Saints to destroy the Wicked but for the present it must not 〈◊〉 c. he is to be understood Spiritually and that Friends were to blame in Printing it as they did Then it follows George Fox in the writing that Book and Mr. Pen in the Publishing this stor there did not intend it should be understood Visionary neither saâ— I will the words bear it He put of his Shoes he run thro the Streets of Litchfield and cryed Wo to the looâ—ly City c. These things were not Visionary Hundreds saw him neither therefore could his wading thro their Blood to the warming of his Feet be so Were not the Saints to have their spiritual Arms on for the present according to E. B. 4. Object If all this be true G. Fox W. Pen and others were Deceivers What is this to the Principle their Opinions may be right 1. This will go far 2. Whoever goes over to them must pretend to be Inspired and Infallible How can they then joyn with them proved to be Imposters and false Prophets These Men surely will play their Infallibilitys and Inspirations lustily one upon another 3. These Men have been even Adored by the Spirit of Discerning too Glory be to thee Let me feel thy Vertue 4. Their Letters have been the Quakers Directories their Dictates the Quakers Oracles 5. Spiritual Courts were set up by these Men from the Lord. 6. Can any of them say they were convinced Baptism and the Supper were nothing An Oath was unlawful by their Inward Light and not by Fox their Outward Light Before Igo any further I must remove a Difficulty that lies in my way Croese a Dutch Divine hath written a large Book of five Shillings price called The History of the Quakers much in favour of them But I do declare it is a 〈◊〉 false History but to do him right he confesseth he haed his Accounts from the Quakers Writings sent to him Therefore be was so credulous he tells us of G. Fox 's Fasting ten Days c. It is well known in Amsterdam long since a Woman pretended she should fast longer than Christ fifty Daâ—s a great Concourse all wonder at this Miracle the Lords at last caused the place to be narrowly searcht and under the Chair was a Trap Door where was all Necessaries for Life They Strangled her and as I hear her Statue was made in Wax in the same Chair representing the Cheat yet to be seen in the same Cloaths I doubt not if G. Fox kept a ten Days Fast it was such a Fast as the Amsterdam Gentlewomans Croese also tells us whâ—â—â— Barbarities were used to the Quakers not fit to be named in Bristol in the last Persecution in their Meetings which I then a Bristol Man never heard one word of and how the Quakers persevered to the last when I aâ—rm for years they left their Publick Meeting place as one Man This false Historian tells us That in New-England The Quakers were so cruelly whipt that many Swooned in the Streets to see it and that the Whip was such That the Executioner was forced to put both Hands to hold it I doubt not but Friends are made to believe that the whipping of Dr. Oats was not worse or as bad as theirs He says little of these Mens Blasphemies about Scripture and the man Christ Jesus c. It is well known the last time I thus appeared in this place a Quakor to divert me from my Charge against Pen and other Impostors and false Prophets said Did not the Presbyterians Persecute in New-England What sayst thou G. Keith dost thou not know it But might not I have return'd did not the Quakers Persecute in Pensilvania What say you M. Keith Do you nor know it Yes surely he knew it too well and felt it to purpose for they so Persecuted him that had not the King sent a new Governour there when Mr. Pen absconded as a Jacobâ—â—e we had not had him now with us but the Quakers in his Grave long since Ye this Croese is forced to acknowledge against them among other things there That George Fox put his name to a Book sent to John the III. King of Poland for Toleration full of excellent Latin Greek and French Sentences out of Learned Writer s as if he had been acquainted with those Authors This Book was so curious it was Translated into many Languages and call'd Fox's Book When it is notorious he never well understood his Mother Tongue Croese crys out against this pride of Fox Ahorrible Cheat say I. I my self Sirs have long since read Histories bearing Fox's name which I and others then thought to be his but he sent as I am well informed to the two Lyd 's in Wales and other Schollars to make such Books and he would put his Name to them He also says That the Story of one Brown that Fox say s had Visions and Revelations concerning him what he should do Was only the Man's Opinion about him when Dying And that it was Customary with Fox to write down such Stories as Prophesies from the Lord c. That