but as we pray the Faithful upon the Earth to beseech God in our behalf what would they say when they came into our Churches and that they saw there the Images Served and the Saints invoqued by all the external acts of a Religious adoration They would certainly cry out upon us for having deceived them and would return to the sink of Heresie It would be better to act Faithfully tell things as they are and make known to Hereticks the naked truth But I avow to you this is not the greatest mischief this Book may do Prov. What is that so terrible mischief which you foresee and which makes you so afraid Par. That mischief is that such Books are capable of multiplying a Party that is in the bosome of the Catholick Church and which will one day be its ruin if care be not taken You must know then that the Church had never so many ill Catholicks as it has at present The Town Country Court and Armies are full of Deists a sort of people who believe that all Religions are the inventions of humane Wit These rash Heads doubt of all they are armed with wicked difficulties against the Books of the Old and New Testament that they may not be obliged to believe that those Books were really written by the Authors whose Names they bear From hence it proceeds that such as pretend to any Capacity in writing have bethought themselves of defending the Christian Religion against the incredulous all their works turn that way and thus if a Bedunt makes a Collection of Scraps and Criticisme upon the Books of the Old and New Testament or upon some particular Texts he calls that Evangelical Demonstration Reflections upon the Truth of the Christian Religion And the most part of these Collections are fitter to confirm these Deists in their incredulity than to make them return because such Compilations are not regulated by Judgment What 's good is mixed with what 's ill and force with weakness and those incredulous minds are the more confirmed in this incredulity by the ill reasons and weak Conjectures that are given them for solid Remarks and are not touched with the good Reasons that are mingled with the ill Besides such kind of Works wherein are related a hundred several Opinions upon one and the same Subject do but furnish a new pretext to their incredulity They conclude that all is uncertain that the most enlightned knew not what to hold to and whose Opinions were quite contrary The truth is that some of these Writings that are made for the defence of the Christian Religion are of a Bulk to fright those Libertines who are not capable of a long Application Thus never reading those great Volumes they do not draw Conclusions disadvantageous to the Christian Religion But as for Books of the size of that of M. de Condoms all the world reads them Now you cannot believe how much the Method those Gentlemen make use of who have invented these gentle ways confirms these Libertines in their sentiments Religion is therein represented to them with a Face wholly new and thereupon they tell us here is a man who transports us into another Country In this new Religion Images are not made use of Saints are not invoqued they are only prayed to as we pray the faithful upon the Earth to beseech God in our Regard I had hitherto believed that the Devotions for the Virgin Mary and for the other Saints were things of importance I see that most part of the Devout lay great stress upon these things and yet these say that they are nothing that they may be let alone and that it is sufficient to invoke God and Jesus Christ they evidently give ground they acknowledge that the Church has erred and that it is in the wrong to recommend the Service of Images and the invocation of Saints upon pain of Anathema If the Church has erred in those Articles why should it be infallible in the others It was mistaken when it ordered us to adore Images build Temples institute Feasts and make Sacrifices to the honour of Saints and why may it not likewise have been mistaken in that it has given us for Divine a Book which perhaps is not so It has no other surety to give us for the truth of those Books and of that Religion which is founded upon those Books than its Authority and infallibility here are Catholick Authors who evidently make a breach in that infallible Authority and thus they open the door to all our Doubts Prov. I understand you But is this the Party you think capable of ruining the Catholick Religion Par. No These are not our most dangerous Enemies They are such Catholicks as I call the third Party who make profession of believing that the Roman Church is the true Church that we ought to be inseparably fixed in it and that we ought never to separate from it but who however do not act as it commands nor have any respect for its Worship These sort of people were never so numerous as they are now in this Kingdom There be some amongst them who push their incredulity so far as to doubt of the most important truths of Christianity They are Socinians they neither believe the Mystery of the Trinity nor that of the Incarnation I know such particular instances that I do not doubt thereof I shall not tell you them because they would only help to make you abhor them And what is most terrible is that it is not only the Religion of our young Abbots it is the Divinity of some grave and wise Societies and who make parade of the purity of their manners and of their zeal for the Catholick Faith Judge you whether such persons as doubt of the mysteries of the Trinity and the Incarnation which all Christians receive have respect for that of the Real Presence and of Transubstantiation which has been exposed to so many Contradictions within these seven or eight hundred years Without reckoning these Socinians it is certain that several Catholicks are in no manner persuaded of the truth of this Mystery neither do they make any difficulty of opening themselves to the Enemies of our Religion when they are one to one and that they cannot be troubled for it When they are asked how they can adore an Object which they only look upon as a Creature they say that they do not adore the Sacrament but that their adoration has respect to Jesus Christ who is seated in the Heavens upon the Throne of Glory Prov. Not long since I happened to be in a place where I was Witness of a very warm debate between Divines who accused certain new Philosophers of being very ill Catholicks and of being of Intelligence with the Calvinists upon the point of the Eucharist Are not these the people you spoke of Par. Yes at least those you mention are part of those I spoke of for there are several others besides these new Philosophers who have no
and in the Canonique Books of the Old and New Testaments that our Subjects may not be filled with new Heresies According to this Article the Lieutenant-General of Xaintes has ordered that the Ministers of his Province should be obliged to make Oath before him and upon refusal he has forbidden them all Function of their Ministry to the very visiting the Sick To which several have imprudently submitted for it was very easie for them to have gone on and not have obeyed because it belongs only to the King and his Intendants of Justice to silence Ministers Prov. But why do the Hugonot Ministers make a difficulty of taking the Oath Par. Because that under pretext of the Oath that they should have taken of preaching nothing contrary to the Word of God they might have been hindred from preaching against the Catholick Religion You know very well that the points which separate Us from the Hugonots are in the Word of God and all our Doctors prove them by Scripture as well as by the Fathers and by Reason Besides by this means a Declaration was revived that is not favourable to them which was extinguished above an Age ago and which was likewise never executed In reviving one Article of it all the others were revived and likewise by renewing this Declaration they would have a right of recalling also all the others which were much more favourable to them They still add that it doth not belong to a little particular Judge to aggravate their Yoke that they live under the Priviledge of the Kings Edicts and that the King is their only Master in things that concern Religion But I must acquaint you with what has been imagined against them in Brittany which is well worth that of â—aintonge A Curate bethought himself to give out a 〈…〉 pain of Excommunication for the â—â—â—…ging his Parishioners to reveal all 〈◊〉 who had spoken irreverently of the Catholick Religion There was a prodigious number of Witnesses either false or true found who deposed against the Hugonots of those parts Insomuch that they were all obliged to fly to avoid Imprisonment I believe the place is called Quiatin it is a Lordship which belongs to the Family of the Moussays Prov. This Affair of Britany as well as that of Xaintonge brings into my mind another of Dauphine which has this in Common with those as to make appear that generally all that is done against those people comes from the same principle that we have already enough remarked that nothing is spared even to believe that it is a work grateful to God to impute to them false Crimes for the casting them into certain ruin But perhaps you know the Story as well as I it is what passed some years since in the pursuit of the Recollects of Nions have you not heard of it Par. Being one day by chance at the late Chancellour N's House I heard them talk of a Bell that the Religious would have taken from the Hugonots of that place and I also remember that they made so much noise with their Bell that the Counsel was stun'd But I know nothing more of it Prov. What I am going to relate to you has made much more noise than the Bell of Nions It came into those good Fathers Heads that the Minister of Vinsobres a small neighbouring Village of their Convent kept secret Correspondence with the English They so well represented this idle imagination to the Kings Attorney General of that Province that he immediately declared himself his Accuser The whole Parliament of Grenoble sell into this Snare one of the most able Counsellors of their Body was deputed Commissioner to inform incessantly upon the Places The Grand Provost took the Field with him followed by all the Company of Serjeants the Sieur B thus is the Ministers Name choosing rather to be a Bird of the Forrest than the Cage frighted at their March fled as soon as he had notice of it His Evasion fortified the suspicions that were given them of him They fanâ—â—â—â—l the Syndio of the Consistory might likewise be of the Party and that the Minister had done nothing without his Participation He was the Cock of the Parish and a man likewise very well to pass who at all adventures could pay the Fidlers His person was sâ—â—zâ—d without other form of Process He was conducted with Irons upon his Hands and Legs into the Conciergery of the Palace The people cryed every where against him all along the way He was to have been shâ—â—…ed alive at least and they sâ—â—…ck'd 〈◊〉 all parts to Grenoble to see the Execution but in fine Parturiunt Montes exit 〈◊〉 Mus. Par. How Did it all go into smoke Prov. Even so After they had examined the business there was found nothing in it and those that had been concerned were the Publick laughter The truth is that the Parliament in some manner to save their honour detained this Syndie two whole years in Prison but that time being expired he was released without being condemned or absolved The Door was opened to him one day when he least expected it And all the Fruit that was gathered from this 〈◊〉 Process was that this good man turned Catholick during his detention Par. This is pushing the zeal of Religion very far and becoming strangely ridiculous What likelihood is there that in Dauphine which is the farthest Province of France from England they should undertake to keep Intelligence with England while that in Guyenne and in Normandy which are its Neighbours they had no thoughts of it Neither can I conceive how that a Minister of a Village can be bold enough to undertake and able enough to carry on an Affair of that importance But were not these Recollects punished for their false Accusation Prov. They had no great thanks for having occasioned this Sally but what is to be done with people of the Frocks Their Excuse was their good intentions and they were freed with a small Reprimand that the Chief President de la Berchere made them who is certainly a Magistrate of the greatest Integrity and one of the best Servants the King has in France Par. And what became of the Minister was not he Condemned out of Contumacy Prov Very far from that he was suffered to take away his Goods an account of which had been taken and would have returned to his Village if that Tempest had not drove him into a good Port in Swizzerland He possesses a Post incomparably better than that of Vinsobres and these Reverend Fathers have procured him Riches and Repose without thinking on it Within these two years another Minister of the same Province has done as much The Religious of St. Anthony of Vienois persecuted him he retired into Holland where he was very well received Par. Is it not the Minister of who was seen rouling a long time at St. Germains and Verseilles after the Courts Taile I have heard it confusedly said that he was accused of Treason and detained
Urbanists are the Maidens of S. Clair whose Rule was mitigated by Pope Urban the 5th and therefore have retained the Name of Urbanists These Maidens had kept the Right of Electing Superiours and Regular Abbesses according to the Canons The King on the contrary pretended he had the Right of Nomination to these Abbeys as well as to all the other Great Benefices The Bishop of Pamiers maintained the Rights of these Maidens and obliged the Pope to maintain it Prov. This Bishop of Pamiers seems to me a terrible man Par. He is dead but I assure you he was an honest man He was for the Observation of the ancient Canons and if he might have been believed he would have re-established the vigour of the ancient Discipline Not that his own Genius of it self was proper to maintain a great affair But he was an Admirer of M. d' Alet who was one of the Chief men of the Age for Purity of manners and Observation of Discipline The Bishop of Pamiers did nothing but by his Orders and followed all his Maximes he has ever followed them even since the Death of M. d' Alet They were both most zealous Jansenists You know the great troubles they have had about signing the Formulary which they so long resisted They were both great Enemies of the Jesuits and of varying from Morality Wherefore Father le Cheise a Jesuit who governed the Kings Conscience was not sorry to find an occasion to revenge his party and he perswaded the King as much as was possible to vex this good Bishop who was likewise a declared Enemy of the Court Bishops which brought upon his back the Archbishop of Paris For perhaps you know that this Archbishop is the Original of whom a little Book intituled the Court Bishop is the Copy Some fancied it was the Bishop of Amiens whom the Author principally aimed at but this is a mistake it was the Archbishop of Rouen who had been Bishop of Seer and who is at present Archbishop of Paris The Author of this little Book that has made so much noise in the World and that has so much enraged my Lords the Bishops is one called le Noir and has been Arch-Deacon of the Church of Seer Prov. But do you not look upon it as a very singular thing that at present the Court of Rome favours the Jansenists against the Jesuits Par. It is what never would have been foreseen for the interests of the Court of Rome and those of the Jesuits have been so interwoven that they were believed inseparable The Jesuits make a fourth Vow to the Pope they carry his Authority as far as it it can go they place him both above Councils and above all Kings as well in Temporals as in Spirituals and therein pass to such excesses as the other Catholicks do not approve The Court at Rome for its part has regards for them that it has not for any other Order But it appears that the present Pope is favourable to the Doctrine of S. Augustin upon Grace He is especially a great Enemy of those varyings from Morality of which the Jesuits are the principal Authors He has caused a Bull to be published which Condemns 65 Propositions of this loose Morality Prov. Good God! But I am scandalized that this Bull was not received in France and that it was forbidden by an Act of Parliament I know very well the pretext which is That the Bull issued from the Tribunal of the Inquisition which is not acknowledged in France But in fine an expedient might have been found not to have scandalized a whole Nation Who would not imagine that the detestable Propositions are approved of which are condemned by this Bull since that the Publication of the Bull is forbidden Par. Certainly the Credit of Father le Cheise and the Jesuit Party has appeared therein And this goes much farther than you think of for in the first minute of the Declaration these words were put Though that these propositions are justly condemned Father le Cheise has caused these words to be raised out and has put in their stead That even the good things which come to us from the Tribunal of the Inquisition ought not to be received Prov. But what do you think of the present Pope Par. For my part I believe he is the honestest of all the Church-men The Holy See has not for a long time been possessed by a Person of so great Probity He is perfectly of an Apostolick Character Prov. I have seen Hugonots who had an esteem for him and who believed him capable of indeavouring a good Reformation if he was aided and followed but he has every where found a surprizing opposition The Bull he has published against some Indulgences was so ill received in France that all good Souls have been scandalized The King is made to say upon the Subject of this Bull that the Pope had newly done more hurt to the Church than the Hugonots could do it in fifty Years Par. There is however one thing in this good Pope that I cannot approve of which is that he will not bate any thing of those high and superb pretensions of the Court of Rome touching the infallibility of the Holy See and the superiority of the Pope over the Temporals of Kings You perhaps know that he has caused to be put into the expurgatory Index by the Congregation of the Inquisition the lives of Father Maimbourg and amongst others the History of the fall of the Empire because there were found therein some Propositions that were not conformable enough to the Italian Theology and which rendered Princes too Independant on the Pope in Temporals Methinks that a Pope of his Character ought to have humility and by consequence ought not to entertain the haughty sentiments of his Predecessours who brought down Crowned Heads under their feet Prov. What you tell me I was ignorant of This is very singular a Jesuite cry out against the Pope Ah! without doubt it is to revenge the Society of the Jesuites and punish the Pope for favouring their Enemies These Gentlemen know how to say God save the King and the same of the League according to Junctures Par. The hatred certainly of Father Maimbourg against the Jansenists might well oblige him to write after a contrary manner to the Popes interests for this Father is one of the greatest Enemies of Port-Royal But besides that the Glory of the King and the great Success of his Armes engages that Society into this Conduct one would say that Father Maimbourg delights and is proud to see his Books in the Index and that he had composed his History of Lutheranisme on purpose to enlarge the Catalogue of forbidden Books at Rome for he loses not any occasion of censuring the Popes Conduct and has likewise found the means of doing one to the purpose in his History of Luther for to Condemn the sentiments and actions of the present Pope upon the dispute he had with the King
faith for the mysteries of the Eucharist Those new Philosophers you speak of are called Cartesians and Gassendists I never much concerned my self with those Philosophical disputes but I have heard them so often debated that I remember some of them I have often heard say that these Philosophers believe some that the Essence of the Matter and of Bodies consists in the actual space and others that it consists in the impenetrability Thereupon the zealous Catholicks tell them that this Philosophy ruins the mystery of the Real Presence for if the Bodies are essentially extended and impenetrable it is impossible that the Body of Jesus Christ can be in the Eucharist without extent and penetracting it self that is to say having its parts thrown into one another Now it is the Faith of the Church that the Body of Jesus Christ is in the Sacrament included under a point Prov. This difficulty is sensible it is not necessary to be a Philosopher to comprehend it What answer do they make to it Par. They reply to it by great protestations of the purity of their Faith and of their Submission to the Church they say that they speak thereof as Philosophers and not as Divines that they consider Matter in its natural state when they define it by extent or that they declare it to be essentially impenetrable that they do not trouble themselves with what it may be in its supernatural Estate wherein God can put it by his Power They turn themselves a hundred ways Some say that extent is the Essence of Bodies but not such an extent that the Body of our Saviour Jesus Christ had at the age of one Year was the same Body that he had at the age of thirty Years That the Body of Jesus Christ may be in the Eucharist having only the greatness of a Hand-worm and that this extent is sufficient to save this truth that the essence of Bodies consists in extent They likewise say that the essence of the Body of Jesus Christ consists in a certain little part of the Brain which is almost insensible in which the Soul is fixed And that by supposing that in the Eucharist there is only that essential part of the Lords Body he may be there Corporally without taking up much Room Others say that God deludes the Senses and that after the Consecration that which appears bread is really the body of Jesus Christ that this Body of Jesus Christ is extended but that God by his Power causes this extent to remain invisible that bodies keep often their extent and yet that extension is not to be perceived When we see a Gyant from the top of a Mountain he appears to us a Pigmy yet he keeps all his bulk In fine they say such strange and improbable things that it is clear that they themselves are not at all persuaded of them and have no hopes of persuading others In a word being we cannot renounce Common sense nor believe that such able men have lost theirs we cannot be persuaded that they really believe Transubstantiation possible The misfortune is that such people as are engaged in these Principles are not ordinary men but the most Illustrious Societies of the Church and the purest and the chiefest Wits of the age The Divines of Port-Royal are men who have distinguished themselves as much as can be by their probity by the purity of their Morality and Divinity by their solitary and retired way of living from the world by their vast inlarged knowledge by the penetration of their Wit by the beauty and fertility of their imagination by the beauties they have inriched our Tongue with and by Productions that are a great honour to France and of great use to the Republick of Letters All these so able men have as much Inclination for Cartesianisme as for Christianity That great Society of the Fathers of Oratory have the same Principles I know not whether you have heard talk of a Book called The Search of Truth This age has not produced a piece wherein there is more subtilty of argument more penetration of Wit and more solid Metaphysicks The Author of this Book as well as all those of his Society seems to have a very great zeal for that Philosophy The truth is that the Fathers of the Oratory have promised neither to speak nor write thereof any more but they have not promised not to think thereof and as long as they shall think they cannot forbear communicating their thoughts After all this Method of hindring the teaching a Doctrine is not so proper as is believed for the hindring its progress especially when Philosophy is concerned concerning which the Wits are persuaded their liberty ought not to be limitted And we are the more violently inclined to things that are forbidden us Prov. I have hearkned very attentively to all you have said and have well enough comprehended it though it is not at all my Trade But I do not understand what reference all this has to the Book of M. de Condom and how this Book which seems to have so much respect for the Mystery of the Eucharist can serve to increase the Party of those people who pretend to be the great wits and who raise their reason against our Mysteries Par. I will make you presently comprehend it All the Catholicks of the third Party who have not too much respect for our Mysteries have a profound Contempt for all popular Devotions They look upon the Introduction of Images into Churches as a thing that might very well be laid aside the invocation of Saints as a superfluity in the Worship and is the Obstacle to the re-union of all Christians and the Excesses that are committed in that invocation of Saints as terrible superstitions that stain Religion They blame the worship of Relicks they laugh at all the Miracles that are made by Images They say that Pilgrimages Indulgences Stations the visits of Priviledged Churches and Altars Scapularies Rosaries Fraternities are Monachal Devotions and are only good to maintain the cheats of begging Monks I my self heard one of these Gentlemen say that the Doctrine of the Catholick Church was good but that three parts of the Catholicks were Idolaters by the abuse that they made of the invocation of Saints and the Service of Images You are not such a stranger in the world as not to have heard talk of a little Book called Salutary Advices of the blessed Virgin to her indiscreet Votaries This Book introduces the Virgin as speaking and condemning all the Devotions and condemning all the Devotions by which she is usually honoured The Bishop of Tourney has made an Apology for this work in his Pastoral Letter These Opinions have found more approvers in France amongst our great Clergy than is credible But neither is it credible how much all the good and simple Souls amongst the Catholicks have been scandalized at them These Libertine Writings have been refuted by other very Catholick Writings Messire Lewis d' Abelly Bishop of