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A91884 A moderate answer to Mr. Prins full reply to certaine observations on his first twelve questions: vvherein all his reasons and objections are candidly examined and refuted. A short description of the congregationall way discovered. Some arguments for indulgence to tender consciences modestly propounded. By the same author. Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.; Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?, attributed name. 1645 (1645) Wing R1676; Thomason E26_20; ESTC R13022 43,033 54

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A Moderate ANSWER TO Mr. Prins full Reply To certaine Observations on his first Twelve Questions VVherein all his Reasons and Obiections are candidly examined and refuted A short description of the Congregationall way discovered Some Arguments for indulgence to tender Consciences modestly propounded By the same Author LONDON Printed for Benjamin Allen and are to be sold at his shop in Popes head Alley at the signe of the Crowne 1645. A Moderate Answer to Master Prinnes Booke called A FULL REPLY I Will not stand upon the many loose passages and hard speeches that this Reply is full of desiring rather the opening of truth then the discovery of any mans corruptions wise men that must see us both will judge us not by our words but by our reason If truth be on his side surely he hath very much spoiled her beautifull face with his black and uncharitable language Truth is most glorious in her owne garments whatever men cloath her with but her owne apparell doth but deforme her If this be her attire that Master Prinne presents here arrayed in certainly she hath changed her forme she never came out so of the bosome of Christ she was never wont to appeare among the Saints in such a garbe passion and railing were never wont to be her companions peace gentlenesse and meeknesse ever attended her as handmaids How little of this waits on his Reply let any that was ever acquainted with such a spirit judge In the very title-leafe he cryes out an anonymous Author ashamed of his name were you ashamed of your name Sir when you put forth The unbishoping of Timothy and Titus The quench Coale The Abreviate all which you owne in this Reply You that writ The Anatomy of Independency The mystery of Iniquity The Subjects liberty all without your name call in your Books write no more You are ashamed of your names You are not ignorant of the many worthy things that have beene put forth without a name there be many reasons may be given for it it is not the name but the thing not who writ but what is written that will satisfie The truth is we are falne into times wherein as Tertullian of old complained men receive fidem ex hominibus non homines ex fide I desired naked truth might appeare though I was not seene in the setting of it forth in his Preface he cryes out He is hated envied ●…pugned for telling of the truth If to answer be to envy hate c. no truth of Christ can lawfully be stood for surely the Spirit of Christ never taught you to jduge so harshly of those who onely labour to vindicate the truth of Christ and friendly to examine your ungrounded queries about it To passe over many other things which to speake to will rather fill up the paper then be satisfactory observe but one or two of these reasons he gives for his writing by way of question First In his Preface to independency examined c. that he saith the Independents had never dogmatically to his knowledge resolved or discovered in print what that Church-government is they so eagerly contend for and yet take notice he confutes them urgeth these Queries as his Reasons What a contradiction this is let all judge how a man can confute that in an opinion which he knowes not to be held in it and out-argue that he never knew dogmatically resolved on is beyond my intellectuals to conceive Neither I saith he nor any one writer ever discovered it and yet Master Prinne hath confuted it unanswerably For that saith he he seriously professeth thefore God Angels or men that he could never yet discover in least footsteps of it in Scripture Antiquity c. I shall only pray that God would anoint your eyes with the eye-salve of the Word that you may see these truths of Jesus Christ which are yet hid from your eyes which many precious Saints humbly conceive they see and so see that if God should call them are willing to seale their sight with their blood But to the matter To the first question he saith I give no answer but onely misreciteth the question without his limitations and then refute what my selfe propounded not be he should have shewne wherein and then might justly have challenged me for it I shall intreat the judicious Reader but to compare both It seems Master Prinne is ashamed now to thinke that there is no positive rule in the Word for Church-government but that it may be suited to States He saith I should have exactly proved by direct Scriptures that Christ hath prescribed one set immutable forme of Government to all Christians Nations c. from which none must vary in a tittle and then have proved from Gospel Texts that which he calls independencie to be this Government but in this Point the Respondent is wholly silent and I shall expect saith he his Answer Ad Graecas Calendas Observe Reader that yet he saith in the following words I indeavour to prove it to say nothing to be wholly silent and to indeavour to prove a thing to me can have no better title then a grosse contradiction but to the thing First Whereas he requires of me as in the former words so here a full discovery of Church-government in the world and this is that he in all his papers demands that we will fully discover this Government in the word I answer First If by a full discovery he meanes that we say all that can be said of it in the word or is laid up there it is Iniquum postulatum most unjustly demanded for even In credendis in matters of faith neither Master Prin nor any else is able to say all that can be said of it or fully to discover the many things that the word holds forth to be beleeved for salvation God reveales more and more of the Gospel every day in a fuller and clearer manner much lesse can any man as yet discover what is required for matter of Government As for our parts we are far from such a thought that we know all things in the word about Church-government but that more of it may be still revealed and we daily search and wait for more knowledge in it But secondly if he meanes we should discover what we hold concerning it let him know that for what we hold in it we can evidence from Scripture every particular and as much as is needfull in this Controversie For the matter of a Church that it should be Saints we conceive it to be evident from these Scriptures Rom. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 1. 1. Ephes 1. 1. Phil. 1. 1. and in vers 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it s a righteous thing for me to judge so of you all now the Apostle wrote to them as they were Churches of Christ and to explaine what they were he calls them Saints such as it were an unrighteous thing to judge otherwise of them and its reason that