Anonymus Pamphleter peradventure some Anabaptist peradventure some Don̄a Catherina it may be of purpose put upon the Stage to make them ridiculous if they should acknowledge such inconsiderable persons as a considerable party Besides this I told them that I thought the Author of the Booke was a man very ill-bred and imprudent and that for many reasons and among the rest First because he being as it seemeth but a private man he will needs be begging of a quarrell with the Scotch Commissioners who never offended him nor for any thing that appeareth knew not whether hee was inverum natura or not Secondly and if he pretend that they offended some of his Sect viz. the five Authors of the Apologeticall Narration then seemes he yet unwiser then I tooke him to be esteeming so highly of himselfe as if he were abler to answer for them then they for themselves so judge not wise men much lesse this wise Parliament for then haply it had made choice of him to have beene a Member of the Assembly which yet it did not Thirdly they are of age very able men according to all wise mens judgment and therefore it seemeth more fit that they answer for themselves and so much rather because neither they depend of him nor he of them nor any of them one from another or all or any of them from any superiour Ecclesiasticall power but every one of them standeth for himselfe And finally if they had offended those five venerable persons or their Sect in apologizing for the Government of all the Orthodox Churches and namely that of Scotland whereof they be Commissioners howsoever no offence appeareth 1. yet offended they them not in particular 2. Neither tooke they them directly for parties 3. Or their Apologeticall Narration formally to refute no more then they five tooke the foure Commissioners for their formall party or the Discipline of the Orthodox Churches or that of Scotland formally to refute If this Anonymus Divine had imitated the prudence of either of them hee would have appeared wiser then now he doth neither should his Booke needed to have beene suppressed as it is in nature of an infamous Libell Hereupon I was desired to set upon the worke my selfe Whereunto I answered that hardly could I doe it not knowing who was the Author of it or of what Sect or Sex he might be They taking this my answer for a merriment which I gave them in good earnest replyed That it could not be a woman fince the Independents permit not them to write Bookes but this satisfied not at all for howsoever the Quinqu ' Ecclesian Ministers admit them not to judge of controversies in Doctrine or in Ecclesiasticall censures yet is it but a particular opinion of those five and of some others and however they admit them not to such acts yet may it be doubted whether they permit them not to write Bookes of Divinity Afterwards they would willingly have perswaded mee that it was no Anabaptist since he was an Independent and disclaimed them and spoke contemptuously of them But that proved no more satisfactory then the rest 1. For howsoever all Independenters be not Anabaptists yet all Anabaptists all Sectaries and Heretickes at this present about London pretend to bee Independents 2. That the Anabaptists here in London for the most part agree with them in all things save onely in delaying of Baptisme till the time that the parties to be baptized be of age sufficient to give an account of their faith and in re-baptizing such as are baptized in all other Churches save those of their owne Sect as I have heard of themselves 3. Sundry of the Independents also hold them for very good men as they declare to the people in their Sermons what ever they write to the contrary 4. Many of them also hold the Anabaptist errour very tolerable which is it may be the cause that so many daily fall away from Independency to Anabaptisme and that not without just cause for if the Independents stand to their owne principles and hold no men to bee Members of Christs Church or visible Christians till they be able to give account of their faith and of the motions of grace that they feele within themselves what need they to Christen those that are not visible Christians Wherefore delay they not Baptisme as the Anabaptists and that so much the more since they refuse it to some of the children of those of their owne Sect. However they esteeme their parents to bee very godly and that onely because they were not churched or received into Church Covenant with them before their death Some other reasons were alledged which here I omit To bee short I was entreated againe to answer the Booke which I promised to doe if the Author could bee discovered whereupon they did what they could so did I also but could not certainly discover him In fine I suffered my selfe for some particular reasons to be perswaded by them Onely before I enter the lists with him since the Author will needs march under a veyle and conceale himselfe I shall pray the Christian Reader and him both to excuse me if without any respect to his person I refute his Booke as it deserveth Whatever he be for feare lest good men bee deceived under pretext of his pretended piety with so many of his Abs and deare Brethren I pray them to observe in him or at least in his Booke his great weaknesse yea if I may by his permission say it his great wickednesse in these points following 1. He would make the world beleeve that the Scots Commissioners acknowledge some defects and errors in their Discipline p. 1. which against the knowne light of their conscience they will not reforme 2. Hee falsifieth the Covenant in adding some words to it which corrupt the sense p. 1.3 And that to extenuate his perjurie inferres cleering and expressing those equivocations and mentall reservations which before he concealed p. 4. he denieth that the Synod gave any thankes to the Scots Commissioners for their Reply to the Apologetical Narration or rather for the cleared Reformation p. 3. which I submit to the Synods judgement whether there be not an Act of theirs to the contrary of what he saith in this point He will perswade the Reader that the Synod only voyced them thanks for a two penny Booke which they gave them as if that grave Assembly had nothing else to doe I might note many more untruths if he had had any prudence he might have learned the contrary either in the City or at Westminster Hal but the Scripture must be true The labour of the foolish wearieth every one of them Ecclesiast 10.15 because he knoweth not how to goe to the City Prov. 12.13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his mouth And this I pray the Reader to examine and not to suffer himselfe to be misse-led by any prejudicate opinion of his apparent pietie his smooth style with
his sweet Brethren but to examine all things and to retaine what is good and to consider that a man so bold and adventrous as to propound in face of this most honourable and wise Parliament the venerable Assembly of so godly and learned Divines and of all the world so many so palpable untruths must needs be very passionate for those opinions which with so blinde a zeale and so little care of his credit hee maintaineth here and may be no lesse passionate in other things then in this As for the reasons and motives inducing me to refute this Libell they were not any stuffe the Booke contained or the least feare I had that it could worke upon any rationall man nor set I upon it with purpose to offend any man no not the five Independent Members of the Synod yea nor so much as the Author of this Libell who has so highly offended all the best Reformed Churches for never any one of them offended me neither is it their Act neither beleeve I that they had any hand in it or if they had any they avow it not And as for the Author I can not offend him wittingly since I know him not and this I hope would excuse very much the offence if any should be nor indeed ought hee to take offence at this Answer since he dare not owne the Booke Now if he be either a wise man or any wayes gracious I suppose hee ought rather to thanke mee for such an ingenuous reproving of his wicked calumnies against the whole body of the Reformed Churches for A reproofe saith the Wiseman entreth more into a wise man then an hundred stripes into a foole Besides as I conceive it is an act of love for as a Father saith Aust Epist ad Mate Magis amat objurgator sanans quam adulator dissimulans Neither can such indignities well bee endured by any man that knoweth how handsomly to cast them off especially when they are published in Print and that because of the imminent danger thereby of infecting the weaker sort of people not onely that now are but also of the posterity to come For as saith the Roman Philosopher Vitia transmittis ad posteres Sen. de Morib qui prasentibus culpis parcit But if he should be so fond as to thinke that he has done well in what he has done yet shall this Answer have some effect upon him for as Gregory saith well Greg in Past Protervos tunc melius corrigimus cum aequae bene egisse credunt male acta monstramus ut unde adepta gloria creditur inde utilis confessio sequatur As for me I can truly say my principall aime and motive was Gods honour the vindication of the Protestant Churches and especially that of Scotland from this mans vilde aspersions and to give contentment to good people who I am afraid may have beeno deceived with the glorious pretext of this mans piety and particularly that I might comply with the desires of those my worthy friends that moved me hereunto And so come I to the Title of the Booke which is A coole Conference betweene the cleered Reformation and the Apologeticall Narration braught together by a well willer to both Here it is to be observed 1. That this Booke carrieth with it no Approbation by those who are ordained by the Parliament to licence the printing of any Bookes From whence it may be inferred that in so contemning their Lawes and Ordinances and afterwards in maintaining that Independents of whom hee pretendeth to bee one give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of Presbyterian Government permit them to doe that this is done and that said in derision of them both and by a man no wise minded to practise what hee saith or professeth by some Nostro damus of whom it is said Nostro damus cum verba damus quia fallere nostrum Et cum verba damus nil nisi nostr a damus Or rather done as the Souldiers did to Christ who bowed the knee to him saying Haile King of the Iewes and mocked him spit upon him He giveth them much Paper-honour with much reall disgrace and will live as Independent upon all Civill as all Ecclesiasticall authoritie 2. It is to be observed as I said before that the Author taketh no proper name to himselfe but onely is described by a common name which is more ordinary among beasts then men For as mens individuall Natures and Persons are signified by proper Names so are all beasts ordinarily represented by names common to the whole Species if you except a few tame beasts so here there is no individuum signatum for to owne this Pamphlet which maketh some judicious men to thinke that he found himselfe conscious of what I have said or am to say and therefore went cunningly to worke in not owning it for feare of some castigation in stead of confutation 3. That this Authors common Name here is a Good-willer to both whereupon at first before that I had read over the Booke I wondred much what sort of creature this could bee what Hybrida and Amphisbaena in matter of Religion bred of so opposite Species having its heads in so opposite parts carried by so contrary motions towards so contrary ends viz. of Dependency and Independency But afterwards in running it over I found no such thing answerable to the Frontispiece neither in matter nor in manner For it ye consider the first it is nothing else but an intended justification howsoever with little successe of the Apologeticall Narration and a senslesse arraignment of the Reformation cleared If the second likewise his expressions which bee evermore we us our c. testifie most evidently that hee is a formall partie Truly hee willeth the Commissioners so little and his Quinqu ' Ecclesian Ministers so much good in this cause that he would make the world beleeve that the one partie saith all and the other nothing at all But what ever good ye will them pardon us if we give you no credit till they be brought together and it bee seene what each of them can say for themselves In the meane time I pray the Reader to take notice how this man in the evry threshold furnishes us with so evident an argument of his weaknesse in that intending a disguisement he had no better contrivance then by his owne penne so shamefully to bewray himselfe Alas poore man that professing here so much truth and honestie thou shouldst thus foully betray thy selfe to be neither true nor honest He endeth his Booke in an extraordinary way with an c. intimating something of the Booke behinde and afterward Finis assuring us of nothing behinde as if his onely aime were to contradict himselfe and so to try our patience and his owne parties credulity how farre the contrary partie will permit or his owne admit such palpable untruths both in the beginning and in the end of his Book Ecclesiast 10.32 The word of a
troubled the Assembly very little with any Reply to what they answered you But will ye our Well-willer either give us or let us give you some positions upon this Subject that we may receive of you some edification in particular at least if we cannot have it in publick Here I offer you a man to discusse whatsoever positions you please in all points wherein yee dissent from all Protestant and Christian Churches And since you put us in minde of it let me tell you some have been very desirous to have had some accesse to some of your Ministers to the end they might have received some edification of them and have known their opinions but found them evermore inaccessible so desirous were they it should seem to hide their opinions As for your Prodromus which ye say hath not deserved to be whipt if the Parliament permit any of the Assembly differing one from another in opinion to present their judgements with their reasons unto the Houses you cannot judge it a crime c. Answ This is already answered by the Author of the Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration 2. This Proposition is conditionall and whoever hath the least tincture in Logick knoweth that conditionalis propositio nil ponit in re nisi positâ conditione 3. And if the Parliament permit it not in this your foolish fashion what will you say 4. What if very wise Parliament men already say that if in the Generall Councells every one that differed in opinion one from another had written bookes one against another they should rather have been held for Councells of fooles then of wise men 5. And if it be so as you say wherefore I pray should not the Scotch Commissioners have written against your Apologeticall Narration since they differed in opinion from the Apologists and so much the rather being that they were calumniated by them He complaineth also of their bitternesse And I on the other side wonder at their patience and meeknesse that they have so little gall against Innovators calumniating the government of all Protestant yea of all Christian Churches except their owne Conventicles as destitute of the power of godlinesse and as Papists and Lutherans defaming them with nicknames as Calvinians c. P. 3. He asks the Authors of the Reformation cleared if they thinke that the Elders of the quinque Ecclesiae be dark Answ Who these Elders of the quinque Ecclesiae can be I know not I have read in the Revelation of the Angels of 7 Ecclesiae in the Councell of Trent de Dudithio Episcopo Quinqu ' Ecclesiensi and of a Town in Hungaria named Quinque Ecclesiae at this present under Mahomet and by the Turks named Porsheu and by the Germans Funs-kirchen but of any Protestant Quinq ' Ecclesian Elders I never heard or read of before this Neither know I what he can meane by them but the five independent Ministers of the Assembly whom hitherto I never heard designed by such a name or title and if these be they I answer that the Commissioners say not that they are darke but those who in the dark are afraid of that which they know not Now light may be in darknesse Neither can he apply this to these Presbyters or to himselfe unlesse he finde in himselfe there be conscia mens The Commissioners adde for explication of themselves and suffer their affections to run before their understanding The Well-willer replieth Are we not morall men voluntas vult ut intellectus intelligit to understand first and affect after Answ Master Well-willer if your affections may be judged of by your actions certainly they are so independent that they will not be tyed according to the rules of Philosophy to depend upon the understanding 〈…〉 understand first to affect after and we can tel you S 〈…〉 from Scripture that if a man be not a very gracious I say not a morall man he will readily understand as he affects rather then affect as he understands 2. That maxime of Philosophy striketh not at all at the Commissioners expression they say that their affections run before their understanding and not that their will runs before their understanding Now will and affection be two things the one in the Reasonable soule the other in the Appetite unlesse with the old Philosophers as Aristotler elateth of them l. 3 de Anima cap. 3. tex 150. ye will confound menteÌ„ cuÌ„ sensu and consequently voluntatem cuÌ„ appetitu so make mans soul mortall as the late Author of the Mortality of the Soul 2. Or if ye take the affection in a more large but lesse proper signification as it signifieth also the inclinations and movements of the will then they understand not thereby the consulted deliberated advised but the rash inconsiderate precipitate and indeliberate actions of the will otherwise called the first movements of the wil motus primo primi qui omne judicium rationis antevertunt which attend not but prevent the judgement of reason i. e. the deliberation and examen of the understanding And in these movements it is certain that the affectioÌ„ goes before the understanding for in such movements the sensitive appetite which is led by the sense misleadeth the understanding not formally but objectivè in so far forth as drawing with it the phansie or imagination whose phantasmata or images determine the understanding in its judgement it being so determined suddenly without any morall deliberation determineth the will but so the will is said to affect without judgement i. e. without that deliberative judgement which is necessary to your morall man or rather to the morall actions of his will and in this sense the Poet said Scilicet insano nemo in amore videt Boetius the Martyr Quis leges det amantibus major lex amor est sibi And Seneca Quod ratio poscit vincit at regnat furor Potensque tota mente dominatur Deus So Aristotle Qualis quisque est talis ei finis esse videtur neque eadem videntur amantibus â—dio habentibus So should you have taken this judicious expression of the Commissioners 3. Item the will in actionibus suis imperatis whereof some be acts of the understanding must goe before the understanding for the understanding must command before that the understanding can obey 4. The Actions of the understanding that are not involuntary but voluntary or willing must follow the will for voluntarium belongeth first to the will and by the will to the other faculties 5. Originall sinne also ill habitudes customes and violent passions hinder the will from following the understanding and make it some times to miscarry against the light of the understanding 6. Albeit the will in its movements presupposes necessarily some judgement of the understanding yet this judgement necessarily presupposed moves it not necessarily for it may be as well moved and directed by another judgement that moveth it not to the contrary action whereunto
the Assembly hath vowed and covenanted to come as neare as they can in the Government of this Church unto that of other Reformed Churches and namely of that of Scotland taking evermore Gods Word for their first patterne and infallible rule of direction 10. They are thanked for it because it refuteth some unworthy aspersions that some have fastened upon the Government of the Reformed Churches now who can those be judge you Sir If here the one be thanked I may probably say the other getteth little thanks for his paines 11. The Assembly rejoyceth at the washing away of those aspersions yea unworthy aspersions as they are termed by them 12. The Authors of such filthie aspersions were there said to affect wayes of their owne now what can be those wayes that be their owne since they are not called Gods wayes judge yee againe 13. They are paralleled there with Bishops being both two opposite enemies to the Government of the true Reformed Churches the Bishops saying no Bishop no King and the others that the Reformed Churches gave not the Civill Magistrate his due which I interpret to bee as if the one said a King cannot be without a Bishop and the other a King cannot bee with Presbyteriall Government 14. Because it was there said that it was necessary to vindicate the Churches of God from so unjust imputations 15. Because the Assembly like wise men commended very highly the sincerity gravity and ingenuity of the Book 16. Because the Synod declareth how it acknowledgeth it self very much beholden to the Commissioners for the vindication of their owne and other Protestant Churches 17. It is called a temperate and seasonable vindication 18. The Assembly saith in name of all the Churches of this Kingdome that they desire to keep with them all and that of Scotland a more arct Communion and uniformity in the Ordinances of Jesus Christ 19. The Assembly declareth there that they had a very high esteeme of the Church of Scotland 20. It commended also the Commissioners for their judicious and grave discourse in the Assembly which contributed much to the foresaid Uniformitie with all the Protestant Churches And all this I have deduced at length not onely to refute this untruth but many others heretofore and hereafter which this unworthy Pamphleter casteth upon the Commissioners yea upon all our Churches to kindle a fire of Division betwixt the Civill Magistrate and them in these most calamitous times when both Church and State are in combustion already But after such evident untruths he addeth if observation faile not Here he seemeth to make us believe that the Author of this Pamphlet is one of the Members of the Assembly or that some Member of the Assembly has dealt treacherously and perfidiously with the Assembly in pinning upon them such an Act flatly contrary to their formall expressions for none but some Member of the Assembly could make any such observation But of this I will say nothing it being a matter of higher concernment I beleeve rather that the Author of this Booke is minded in principio medio fine to be like to himselfe P. 4. § 1. We read nothing else but of the Independenters admirations which Philosophers call the daughter of ignorance and some of their thoughts and judgements as if they were giving an account of their Creed as p. 2. we read nothing but Interjections of lamentation ah oh c. of holy and gracious men whereas we crave some quia's ergo's or other rationall Conjunctions whereunto we cannot better reply then did Scotus to a Doctor of the Sorbone in Paris This Doctor when he could not answer Scotus his argument by Reason said evermore Respondeo cum Sancto Doctore Cum S. Doctore replied the other si sanctus oret pro nobis si Doctor respondeat ad argumentum so we to you If those men among you be holy let them cry ah for their sinnes and pray to God for Gods Church but let Doctors propound and answer arguments but this man reasoneth not but giveth out Sentences as if he were some Iudge of one of the Benches You doe but imagine and fancie whatsoever you say in this Section of your imagination of the Commissioners extr ajudiciall and eccentricall Act your acts may rather seeme Eccentricall secundum quid to London and Concentricall secundum quid with Oxford where me thinkes they have more regard a great deale to your tender Consciences then to those of the Commissioners Neither can any mortall man hinder so independent imaginations It hath been already proved that you have given the first second and third blow and in your Apologeticall Narration you threatned yet another your judgement is utterly erronious in thinking that this was intended to disunite the Presbiterians from others i. e. from Independenters since no others can well be thought upon all other Orthodox Churches and all the Synod being no other for their intention is altogether to unite you with them Neither are there for any thing we know any that disunite you from them or them from you save your selves onely P. 4. § 3. This well willer is very impertinent in proving against the Commissioners that Visibility and Succession are not essentiall notes of a true Church which they I beleeve never thought I am sure never said And yet I must say that howsoever visibility be not essentiall to a true Church yet it is essentiall to a true visible Church whereof we all dispute here And howsoever of a true Church wee cannot inferre visibility yet from true visibility we may infer a true Church P. 5. § 1. He blesseth God that God hath made a Rehoboth for the Scots And God willing wee shall bee fruitfull in the Land as Isaac and we pray God he and his be not as the Herdsmen of Gerar even striving with our Herdsmen of Isaac If we have a Rehoboth wherefore will yee not drinke of our Spring wherefore to use your termes will ye not jumpe with us or if yee will not ye may be gone as Lot with your Pastours and separate your selves from Abraham and Isaac Ibid. Who can hinder the windes if they blow and bring blacke weather from the North or West Answ No true English hearts have made any such judgement of the Northerly windes these three yeares last past How much trulier might it bee said of a few Donatisticall spirits with their Vbi habitas amica mea in meridie that trouble their mother Church esteeming all her children unworthy of their Communion Pag. 5. § 3. Ye come up me thinkes somewhat lamely with your Catalogue of Prophets 1. For onely ye have one Brightman and yet none of yours hee is of ours for he preferreth the Scots Church constituted of Parochiall Classicall and Synodall Assemblies before all other or at least postpones it to no others 2. Neither in exposing the Prophecies of Scripture according to Scripture can he be said to have had the gift of Prophecie since his expositions were not
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS