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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93576	The hidden things of Esau brought to light, and reproved in an answer to a book intituled A true relation of a dispute between Francis Fulwood, minister of West Alvington, in the county of Devon, and Thomas Salthouse, as it is said, of the county of Westmerland, before the congregation of them called Quakers, in the house of Henry Pollexpher Esquire, in the said parish of West. Published in the truth's defence, and sent abroad in the world, to pursue the unknown authors imperfect relation. By a follower of the Lamb in the war against the Beast and false prophet, known to the world by the name of Thomas Salthouse.	Salthouse, Thomas, 1630-1691.	1657 (1657)	Wing S473; Thomason E912_4; ESTC R204852	26,539	40

hide and uphold Book There were some things very remarkable and the cunning craftiness of the Quaker was such That do what Mr. Fulwood could to force him to it he still found some trick or other to evade the maintaining those passages of dangerous consequence which he let fall in his first discourse which were not a few and which he took notice Mr. Fulwood wrote down Answ O ye deceitful Craftsmen and false Accusers what were these passages of dangerous consequence was it declaring against sin and exhorting to purity and holiness to minde the light and take up the Cross and follow Christ in the straight way or was it the laying open the deceit of the false Prophets hirelings and such as say they are Ministers of Christ and are not such as are called of Men Master take the cheif Seats in the Assemblies uppermost rooms at Feasts and whose hearts are exercised with covetous practises and have forsaken the right way and are gone in the way of Cain and run greedily after the error of Balaam for gifts and rewards If he that you call Mr. Fulwood wrote down any thing of dangerous consequence it had been his duty or yours in this Relation to have published them that so they might have been avoided and the Author ashamed for you say this was published out of a sincere desire that truth might be cleared and error ashamed And here you have added another lye to say That I took notice that Mr. Fulwood wrote down those passages of dangerous consequence for I did not see him nor any other write any thing that day of that discourse which I was moved of the Lord to speak not fearing all that came to oppose themselves Although I were sensible there were many that day come together to lie in wait to catch me in my words and if I had seen any write down what I said that day I had no cause to be afraid nor ashamed knowing that I have a witness in all your consciences that heard me even the Authors of his Book though they manifested themselves to be my subtil Adversaries their cunning will deceive them in the end as their deceit comes to be laid open by the light which makes manifest every mans work of what sort it is Book 2. He took all occasions to bring the dispute to such points as lay in difference between us and the Anabaptists that thus he might engage the Anabaptists with himself which indeed he effected the greatest advantage he got that day Answ Have you no other resuge but lies to shelter under what occasion took I to engage the Anabaptists both they and most of the company then present saw the deceit of Francis Fulwood that day and many of them declared against it I utterly deny that I endeavored to engage any further then the truth convinced them neither did I fear any that did engage against me And if the Lord raised up a witness in those you call Anabaptists or any others to contend for the truth against your deceit let him have the glory I admire no mans person because of advantage and if Francis Fulwood lost the advantage that day with your assistance or likely with the help of his Brethren of the Craft he may think to regain what he then lost by enlarging upon his confused Answers and Arguments and diminishing and wresting my Answers Replies and Arguments that day made in the truths defence but neither yours nor the as formed weapons shall prosper your refuge of lies the Lord will sweep away Book 3. That upon every stand or difficulty he continually fled unto the common Refuge of Hireling taking Tithes c. Answ It s a better refuge then lies to flie unto did not the true Prophets Ministers and Messengers of Christ declare against hirelings such as divined for money bare rule by their means sought for their gain from their quarter and against covetous proud heady high-minded men Is Francis Fulwood guilty of any of these If so let him repent in time and turn you from him if not neither he nor you need be offended at me nor account it too grateful a discourse to any Book 4. Although he first urged to have the express words of Scripture to be the rule of the dispute c. Answ You still flie to your old refuge which cannot long stand to wit lies look back to the third remarkable thing as you call it and compare it with this and your contradictions and confusions will appear remarkable indeed Did not you there say that in every stand I fled to the common refuge of Tithes Hirelings Diviners for money c. which are express words of Scripture and are you now so impudent as to say that I did not so much as once keep so exactly to the express words of Scripture Here you have given an opportunity sufficiently to discover and lay open your folly Book 5. Yet his cunning deceived him in that as is most remarkable The very Texts which he urged as before noted afforded so direct and plain Answers upon every occasion that he had no room left for any colourable Reply Answ What can you not open your mouths without lying I need give no other answer to this but appeal to all those that heard the dispute whose judgments are not captivated with prejudice Where are those plain Answers how is it you had not set down some of them in that which you call a true Relation A Reply that had not given satisfaction might stand for a colour but as troups of Robbers that lay in wait to murder by consent you bend your tongues for lies and shoot out your arrows even bitter words Book 6. Lastly And which did justly amaze us how boldly and with what inforcing Repetitions did Mr. Fulwood challenge him to set down his opinions and engage that thereupon he would at the next meeting bring Papists Books c. Answ All opinions and sects I deny neither can I remember at present that I heard him speak of writing down any but my principles what I owned and disowned I freely declared that day which neither be nor you hath or can disprove that dispute being the Fourteenth day of the Moneth called October 1656. I had three meetings the same Moneth one at the house of Henry Pollexphen aforesaid on the Six and twentieth day another the Seven and twentieth at Batson and another the Eight and twentieth at Kingsbridge of which its likely Francis Fulwood had notice For Nicholas Tripe in whose house the Meeting then was informed me that he sent a Messenger to him with a Message to this purpose That if he were dissatisfied in any thing in the forementioned discourse he might have free liberty to come into his house and be answered to what he had to object which was done at my request Let his practise and mine be judged by the Light which is nearer to Popery and who it was that fainted Book The Lord awaken us betime

THE Hidden things of Esau brought to light And Reproved in an ANSWER To a Book Intituled A true Relation of a Dispute between Francis Fulwood Minister of West Alvington in the County of Devon and Thomas Salthouse as it is said of the County of Westmerland before the Congregation of them called Quakers in the House of Henry Pollexpher Esquire in the said Parish of West Published in the Truth 's defence and sent abroad in the World to pursue the unknown Authors imperfect Relation By a Follower of the LAMB in the War against the Beast and False Prophet known to the World by the name of Thomas Salthouse Where is the wise where is the Scribe where is the Disputer of this world hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world 1 Cor. 1.20 Thou hast trusted in thy wickedness thou hast said None seeth me Thy wisdom and thy knowledge it hath perverted thee Isai 47.10 Rejoyce not against me O mine enemy when I fall I shall arise when I sit in darkness the Lord will be a light unto me Micah 7.8 London Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-spread-Eagle neer the West-end of Pauls 1657. The Preface FOrasmuch as there came lately to my hands a certain Book or rather a Libel without any name unto it intituled A true Relation c. which it seems the Authors thereof being conscious of their Vnfaithfulness vain Repetitions and manifold Lies therein contained durst not own the same so far as to set their names thereunto that so an Answer might have been directed particularly to them and their folly made manifest but thinking to shelter themselves in the dark from the eye of man thereby to keep their deeds of darkness from the light Yet he that searcheth the heart and tries the reins and brings the hidden things of Esau to light in his due time will bring them to Judgment both for their evil thoughts hard speeches and ungodly deeds and this is he of whom I am a witness who pleads the cause of the Innocent and executes Righteous Judgment on the Earth And although for that the Authors thus hide themselves in the dark by concealing their names and also the matters therein contained being of so little weight it might justly have excused an Answer yet notwithstanding for the simple sake and Truths vindication I am constrained to send this ensuing Answer into the World especially into the County of Devon and Parish of West Alvington where it is likely these unknown Authors Relation have past before that if possible it might come to the view of some of them who have digged so deep to hide themselves and their counsel in the dark lest their shame and nakedness should be made manifest Their Book or Libel being filled with so many vain Repetitions and gross untruths of their own Suggestions the Reader thereof can expect little for his Information or Edification And therefore I shall not endeavor to fill a volumn with repeating overmuch of what is herein contained but onely hint at some passages that may seem to bear the most weight and also manifest and reprove some of their lyes These Authors begin their Book as follows A True Relation c. Answer THe first sentence is a lye as I shall prove by your words in the Preface your own Relation where you confess you have concealed some Infirmities Repetitions and vile Speeches which indeed were many as you say also you say the Quaker was so full of Impertinencies and Repetitions that his words here set down seem to bear no proportion to his tedious and rude Discourses And then how can your Relation be true when by your own confession much is omitted out of your own mouths be you judged And though you finde me rude in Speech yet may you not expect to find me so in knowledge for God hath given me a mouth and wisdom to answer such gain-sayers and opposers as call evil good and good evil Book On Tuesday 24 October 1656. Answ There was no such day in the year for the 24 day of October 1656. was the sixth day of the week called Friday and the same day I was at a meeting in Plimouth but I let this pass among your other infirmities though I might call it a lye It s very unlike your Relation should be true when you could not so much as remember the day Book Published by some that were present at the dispute out of a single and sincere desire that Error may be ashamed and the truth cleared Answ Error is ashamed for are you not ashamed to own your Relation which is so full of Error although you say you were present at the dispute if not why did not you subscribe your names to your Book which is so full of error How can lyers clear the truth its clear ready notwithstanding all your deceit and deceivableness of unrighteousness with which you would darken the truth and cast a stumbling block before the simple by rendring the truth odious but the wo is unto such as you who call truth error and error truth that put darkness for light and light for darkness a deceived heart hath led you aside a lye is in your right hand Book It seemeth strange unto some that Mr. Fulwood would venture to go to the Quakers meeting c. Answ It s manifest both of what generation you are of and also him whom you call Mr. Fulwood Your speech bewrayeth you did not you call him a Minister when were any of Christs Ministers called of Men Master and who were they that were so called are not they transgressors of the command of Christ that call men so Read Matth. 23. Why should not he venture unless he had thought the Quakers were such as the men of his generation who hate and beat in their Meeting places and carry before Magistrates and to prison or was he not rather conscious to himself of his guilt and hypocrisie For the sinners in Sion are afraid fearfulness surpriseth the Hypocrites Isai 33.14 Book He had no thought of making a set dispute of it till provoked by the Quakers railing discourse Answ Here I call you to bear witness against your selves that my discourse was not railing but words of truth and soberness tending to the informing of the mindes of those that were present at the said meeting that whereas they had formerly spent their money for that which was no bread and their labor for that which did not satisfie they might be turned to him who filleth the hungry with good things and freely administers out of the Everlasting Treasury without money and without price And as they had formerly in the time of their ignorance heaped up to themselves Teachers they were exhorted to turn from the darkness to the light that so they might come to know the true Teacher Jesus Christ the Everlasting High Priest the chief Shepherd and Bishop of their Souls There being many that day present as sheep without a Shepherd

unto whom I was moved to lay open the deceit of the blinde Guides Idol-Shepherds such as run but the Lord never sent them hirelings false Prophets deceivers and Antichrists such as divine for money and speak a divination of their own brain of which sort many are gone forth into the world in these last days and perilous times and many have followed their pernitious ways by reason whereof the truth hath been evil spoken of and unless you call the Scripture language railing discourse own your selves to be false accusers for it lies upon you yet to prove what your false Relation affirms Book 1 We hear the Quaker threatens to print the debate himself from whom we can expect no faithfulness therein Answ Your first Reason is grounded on a lye or false information at the best I never threatened nor indeed intended any such thing here your evil surmising appears your clearly manifest the contrary in your selves which you say you could not expect from me for if I had first printed you might have found more faithfulness then I finde at your hands But to me this is not strange seeing it is manifest of what generation you are had you not respected persons you would have done to me as you would I should have done to you and not to have added to nor diminished from my words to make them appear ridiculous to the Reader when you pretend to give a true Relation but your covering is too narrow though you have made haste with your work lest others should have written before that would have dealt equally for both parties Book 2. We hear that some others who did not write say They will lay their heads together and print as much as they can remember which if they should it must needs be done very imperfectly Answ You have left enough for them yet to do if any such intention were before the Relation be perfect and they may either write or print notwithstanding what you have done And if they should give a more imperfect Relation then you have done I shall deny both you and them and stand a witness for God against you all but this I know there is none that owns the truth in the least measure that was present that day though the words were not written that day as they were spoken that will joyn with or approve of what you have done For they may plainly see your unequal ballance and bag of deceitful weights and how you have wrested my words and enlarged upon his as if your works should never have been brought to light or you called in question to give an account thereof but the just God sees you in secret who will reward you openly Book 3. We hear that since we supposed prejudiced persons are ready to say c. Answ That they were prejudiced persons who said so is nothing but your supposition and if they said I had the best they might speak truth for truth prevails against deceit and the Lamb must have the victory There is little reason that what you suppose wonder at or affirm should gain much credit or change their mindes though for the present you have endeavored to cast a mist before the eyes of such as heard not both parties that day to beget a prejudice in their mindes against the truth Book Let none slander us with unfaithfulness in the Relation Answ To say that the Relation is unfaithful and false is no slander It seems you were convinced in Conscience of your guilt in this thing else why did you conceal your names had you given the whole Reason on both sides as you say you did you need not have been ashamed to own it or put it to others that would have remembred more and yet are you so impudent as to call it a true Relation Book Yea the weight of Mr. Fulwoods Answer though extemporary is such that we think we may safely let them loose not onely to what was said that day but to what can be replied upon the deliberation of all the Quakers betwixt this and Westmerland Answ You have manifested your selves in this Relation to the lest of these called Quakers to be proud boasters and to such as live in the light his Answers though with the assistance of his and your deliberation appear to be light and vain although you that are destroyed for want of knowledge and set your selves to contend for and uphold such as cry peace while men put into their mouths say they are weighty and by the assistance and direction of the Eternal Spirit of him who gives a mouth and wisdom to his Children that all their adversaries are not able to gainsay or resist I shall answer to some of his weightest Arguments though it may be not with such cunning devised Fables and excellence of Speech as is pleasing to your ears as cannot endure found doctrine and yet of as much and more weight and use for edification to the simple as your Narrative which you say you have humbly put before them your expressions manifest but little humility Book If any shall print another Narrative let them but be faithful in setting down Mr. Fulwoods own Answers or Arguments in their due weight and fulness Answ Ye Hipocrites will you pull a mote out of anothers eye while the beam is in your own you that would teach others would not you teach your selves it would be but vain repetitions to write his words over again Ought not you to have been faithful first in setting down my Answers and Arguments with the due weight and fulness before you had exhorted others to faithfulness in this particular and then there had been no need of another Relation but the steddy eye as you say of those before whom you put your Narrative might have taken a full view of the truth on both sides as their ears had done before who were present at that discourse Book We know not that we have concealed any thing save some infirmities viz Reproaches and vile Speeches which indeed were such and so many c. Answ Oh you deceitful tongues do you pretend a concealing of infirmities reproaches and vile speeches and yet mention them in general which such aggravating circumstances as to be such and so many as even inforced some of Mr. Fulwoods more ingenious adversaries to say That they wondred that flesh and blood could contain so long under such temptations c. What were those reproaches and vile speeches had it not have been as much Charity to have exprest the particulars as to mention them in general with such aggravations Let that in your consciences witness whether you intended any such thing as to conceal my infirmities and vile speeches if any had been uttered were not those the vile speeches as you mention the discovery of the deceit of the hirelings and false Prophets which if you should have set down would have manife sted the folly and wickedness of him and that generation which you go about to

Here is no mention made of water in this command and besides they to whom it was given were first sent forth to teach as it is written Go teach all Nations and they abode in the doctrine of Christ and went forth as sheep among Wolves and into whatsoever City Town or Village they entred they were to inquire who was worthy and not what they might expect for a livelihood for themselves their Wives and their Children And some were sent forth not to baptize but to preach the Gospel and these were sent first to teach and preach repentance and they were to repent before they were to be baptized So that it plainly manifests That those who baptize Infan●s before they teach them or before they have repented are transgressors of this command of Christ And I also question where ever Frances Fulwood was sent either to preach or baptize for Christs Ministers were not so beggerly as to take hire for their preaching twice every Lords day or to contend or wrangle for a competent maintenance in lieu of preaching or for Tithes calling them Christs wages This manifests another spirit then was in the true Prophets Apostles and Ministers of Christ who called all to come freely without money and without price and gave freely as they had freely received But as there were false Prophets in Israel even so there are also false Prophets in England whose hearts are exercised with covercous practises and who have forsaken the right way in these last days and perilous times and many have followed their pernicious ways by reason of whom the way of truth is evil spoken of And these men in the ears of deluded people are crying up the Church and Ordinances Baptism Sacrament Preaching Praying and Singing even as the Jews did of old the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord when they themselves were even destroyed for want of knowledge But the Lord hath raised up a light in the hearts of Ten thousands of his Saints whereby they are comprehended judged and condemned and turned away from them that have gotten the words without the life the form but not the power the shadow and not the substance the sign but not the seal There was indeed a time of ignorance a day that was neither clear nor dark in the which we were led aside by these dumb Idol-shepherds till God commanded the light to shine out of darkness and shined into our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glorious Gospel Church and Ordinances in the face of Jesus Christ of whom we had heard and on whom we had believed And being justified by faith we have peace with God Heb. 11.6 and without faith its impossible to please God Fulw. Faith you say is required in Baptism and that renders Infants capable thereof for though Faith be required this doth not render Infants uncapable of Baptism for children were capable of Circumcision and yet Circumcision was a sign and seal of the Righteousness of Faith Answ Their Circumcision made with hands was a sign Rom. 4. but not a seal for what saith the Scripture Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness not when he was in Circumcision but when he was in uncircumcision and he received the sign of Circumcision a seal of the righteousness of faith which he had when he was uncircumcised The Circumcision of the heart is the seal Ezek. 20.12 10. and the Circumcision with hands was the sign of that seal as the Sabbath was given to Israel for a sign of that Everlasting Sabbath which is prepared for the people of God But now neither Circumcision nor uncircumcision availeth any thing but a new Creature neither doth the figure of Water-baptism nor Sprinkling of Infants which is no figure seal nor sign avail any thing 1 Pet 3.21 but the keeping of the Commandments of God for when the Gentiles that have not the Law do by nature the things contained in the Law these having not the Law are a Law unto themselves Rom. 2. shewing the effect of the Law written in their hearts c. Therefore if the uncircumsion keep the righteousness of the Law shall not his uncircumcision be counted for Circumcision for that is not Circumcision which is outward Phil. 3.3 but that of the heart in the Spirit and not in the Letter for they onely are the Circumcision that worship God in the Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh and they only know the true Baptism that are come to the answer of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead who are buried with him in Baptism Eph. 4.30 and quickned together with him and sealed up by the Spirit of promise until the day of redemption And if this be all the proof can be alleaged for the baptising of Infants by the Teachers of the World and their upholders the Author of this Book their Foundation is on the Sand for neither can they prove that Christ commanded to baptize Infants with water nor that it came in the room of circumcision or that it is either Sign or Seal of the Righteousness of Faith unless we should believe what they conceive or imagine for a truth which few will do that have their sences exercised by reason of use to discern between truth and error the power of godliness and the form and have had experience of the deceit of such as now are gone forth into the world Matth. 15.9 who teach for doctrine the traditions of men Something also was spoken about singing Davids Conditions in Rime and Meeter which I then opposed and denied the practise of as they were by these Poets or Fidlers Sternhold Hopkins and others Translated into English Meeter with apt Notes to be sung in the Church and Chappels so called before their Morning and Evening Prayers and Formal Preaching which while the people are singing they uncover their heads as if the Scriptures were more holy and honorable since these men perverted them by putting them into Meeter then they were before as they were spoken forth by him who was a holy man after Gods own heart inspired by the Holy Ghost But all your Songs will the Lord God of Sabbath suddenly turn into weeping and howling mourning and bitter lamentation Although for a season these men of the World whose portion is in this life may make merry over the witness and put far away the evil day who lie upon their Beds of Ivory and stretch themselves on the Couches that eat the Lambs out of the flock and the Calves out of the midst of the stall that chant to the sound of the Viol and invent to themselves instruments of Musick like David who sings lyes in the Name of the Lord calling him to witness that they are not puft in minde when they are so proud heady high-minded and scornful that without disdain they can scarcely one look upon another