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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67003	A short letter modestly intreating a friends judgement upon Mr. Edwards, his booke he calleth an Anti-apologie, with a large but modest answer thereunto framed, in desire, with such evennesse of hand, and uprightnesse of heart, as that no godly man might be effended at it : and with soule-desire also, that they, who are contrary-minded, might not be offended neither, but instructed.	Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675.; Hartlib, Samuel, d. 1662.	1644 (1644)	Wing W3502; ESTC R18279	37,876	40

his Rhetoricks i. e. I would not help my selfe with private Letters I would neither quote them nor Heare-say not I nor would I use Satyres and Invectives though such Rhetorick finds the vulgar-eare more open then Logick reason does I would use none of all this I would deale more candidly then so and more becomming a Christian and a brother Thus I would doe make a Narration onely and declare things which I saw and heard and not another for me There I saw them bow at the Name of Iesus There cringe a little before wood and stone and there I heard them say one piece or cantle of their Service too I heard them read that thrice accursed Declaration against Gods holy day also that I did I did see them give forth their Right-hand of fellowship for the establishing of evill and overthrow of good I saw them contribute their purses and then they would their bloud too for money comes from us like drops of bloud To strengthen the hand of violence against the throats of their dearest Brethren the Scots Understand me good Reader I would rather my fingers should rot from my hand my hand from my Arme my Arme from my shoulder than that I should imploy my hand in such a worke I would only give thee to know how fruitfull the * Theame or subject matter is and how a mans owne spirit could enlarge and dilate upon it very readily But to my Question now how wouldest thou esteeme such a booke so fraught and stuffed as aforesaid for indeed my stomack riseth at the very thought of it with the failings and fallings and now the repentings of Gods servants I hope how wouldest thou esteeme such a thing such a worke for I cannot call it a booke how wouldest thou account of it or of my selfe for making such a foule piece of worke I le answere for thee and against my selfe first doubtlesse if thou mightest have thy will thou wouldst have me marked with D upon my forehead that is Devill for though I would urge nothing against my brethren upon report of Hearesay or from Letters those silent interpreters between man and man yet I might accuse my brethren of those things they have repented of and God for ought I know has pardoned and then thou wouldst call me a Devill an Accuser of my brethren And thou wouldst wish my mouth stopt and never licence given to my Pen any more So thou wouldst have me dealt withall 2. And for the book which I could make it would be sure an abomination in the eyes ears hearts of all the best learned all over the land And to thy selfe also a very loathing like thy vomit or some such lothsome thing Why then thou canst make judgement of the Anti-Apol that is such an abomination and worse for worse can be and is M. Ed. his booke which now I had done withall but that I hope to get honey out of it a great deale of use before I make an end And first I should show the mischiefes this contrariety to the rule contradiction in words strangenesse in judgements alienation in affections have caused to the Church of God But all this shall be shewen in a Parable with which I shall close-up my Answer Now Sir you can by this time tell your selfe why the most cry-up M. Edw book 1. Because the most are best pleased to see brethren stand at a distance or at a bay or comming neere hand to strive and fight each with other 2. Because the most love the broad-way and would walk in it and are full of hope now that this contention about the way shall enlarge their way and make it yet broader but they will be deceived for whether this or that way it is the way of CHRIST that is contended for by our choice men past all question 3. The most doe shut their eyes against the light and hate the truth of God Vox populi non est vox Dei If the most say it and it be touching the great things of God I shall doubt nay I shall make no question of it That GOD sayes it not If my writings any of them said Melancthon and they were all for God and His truths were pleasing to the most that should displease me most of all so as I should teare them or throw them into the fire I know how the most relish the things of God well enough and with what eyes they see The most have the least diseerning into the things of God God knowes A. Why but all the learned and good men too cry up his booke B. For what surely not for his Invention neither his Topicks there nor his Rhetoricks his Compasition indeed is pretty good his Elocution or that the Orator calls Action the All of an Orator that is all starke nought in the judgement of all the Learned sure But let the Authour have all his dues and let his Booke be called a Booke because the most say but they know not what they say that it is a good one For any further respect unto it then to call it a Book having seriously considered the generall frame scope and tendency of the said Booke I know not how to give it nay I verily beleeve that every good man will mourne over it upon these following considerations 1. Because this Booke is to the heart it comforteth those that should not be comforted the Devill and all his servants Let not the Reader be offended at this expression it is very possible for a good man to doe and speake that which may comfort as he and they can be comforted the Devill and all his servants Oh how glad the Devill is at the sight of such a Booke as this which flieth at the face of those he pursueth with deadly hatred He is called Satan an Adversary A Devill too an accuser of the bretheren If any man now will take the Devill his office accuse the bretheren divulge their faults oh how the Devill rejoyceth at this how glad his servants are Be the accusation true or be it false that matters not the bretheren are accused the Devill and his servants laugh An Isralite strives with an Isralite oh how pleasant a sight is this It will pluck back and hinder the Great-worke in hand as once it did thinks the Devill then he laughes and huggs this hope and are not all his servants as merry surely the Devill and his servants are dancing now for joy now he sees those struck at whom he hates heartily and those doctrines opposed which are the very destruction of his kingdome Surely no good man will help to make the Devill musick then sure enough he will not make such a booke as this for this is musick for the Devill You tell me you mourne over it I beleeve you and that every good man mourneth with you but he that hath given the offence much more must he m●urne God will make him else Howbeit because by this deed thou hast given great

way their zeale may goe-forth at the dispute about it and passion may get in Then Reasons like a bad hound speeds upon a false sent and forsakes the question first started Sir you are at the end of my Preface now to my undertaking The Authour first then to his Epistle and so to the Booke and some resolves thereupon and then an end The Authour you are pleased to Name him so will I for honour sake But before I come at him I will reach forth my hand unto him and my heart for these shall never goe single My heart is towards him and to God for him That the Lord would shine upon him and his gifts that so neither he nor they may runne-out any more to waste as persons and graces doe which doe not promote the Glory of God and the salvation of soules Now I am come to him I suspect my selfe and my loving respects towards him least they carry me beyond my bounds in his commendation Truly I cannot tell in what one thing the man is wanting to make him compleat except in Charity that is a great exception and some say he is so wanting therein that he has no charity at all yet that is the everlasting grace and compleats all yea some doe not straine to say he is a man of a malignant spirit and he hath shewed forth openly nothing else he must be content to fall under censure Truly I think they say not well and so good he thinks himselfe he cares not what they say and there he may be too carelesse But for my part I would rather I could say he is a man of an excellent spirit but then my love transporting me I should say too much Yet this I must say he is very high in my thoughts not a whit higher in others account almost as he is in his owne and he hath improved his growth not a little within these foure yeares for then he was matched by he knoweth whom surely the Lord would have had him accounted that as a spetting in his face and now he hath attained to that height in the eyes of all the learned that he is too tall a match for a woman Good man Indeed the best have their failings God hath left him to himselfe as he hath said of his Brethren To try him that he might know all that was in his heart And now all know it I thinke better than himselfe for palam est It is all abroad and in every mans eare and eye what was in his heart so secret there this seven yeares upon my knowledge And here I could tell the Reader something from thence from what I know more what I heard from an excellent Master in Israel and his best Disciples in Hartford But I must not doe that my selfe which I must reprove in him for I never spake with him about it neither alone nor before others Nor would I for a world render Gath and Askelon debtors unto me Bristoll and Oxford God forbid That I should give the Philistines there matter of rejoycing or the uncircumcised there cause of Triumph Whether the reverend Authour of this Anti-Apolog hath not more rejoyced the Adversaries to the Truth than edified her Friends in their most holy Faith requires his most retired serious and saddest thoughts That so he may as he may see cause give check to his busie pen in his zeal for God and his cause he hath given his word he will not cease writing lest while in his zeal for the beating-out and clearing the Truths of God and the way of his Servants he darkens those Truths and layes scandals in the way whereby to grieve the Brethren and rejoyce the enemies to all Righteousnesse And then the more paines he takes the more worke he makes for repentings The Lord be a Light and Guide unto him now That his after-labour may be a labour of love and his worke a worke of Faith Then may he be patient in hope That he shall see the travell of his soule So I would bespeake him now and assure him That neither his Person nor his Graces have one graine the lesse waight in my esteeme because he is for the Presbyterian-way So are they and they the most the savour of whose Graces are now as is the savour of the sweetest oyntmeut all over the House and houshold of God for they are for That way whatever we call it which they are perswaded is the way of Christ And the Searcher of all hearts knowes my desire touching him is 1. That he for after time may give no occasion to those with-out to blaspheme or to them with-in To thinke he is against the strictnesse and purity of the way of Christ 2. And that not one drop of the Anointing he has received from the Father may run-out in vaine but that in his pursuance after peace he may maintaine the peace of the Church by all meanes Keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond thereof So much to bespeake him and his patience while for my friends satisfaction I give judgement of his Booke in the same order as it lieth The Epistle first It is well compact a sheet compleat and answers M●Sympson sheet for sheet Yet Mr Sympson his second Position there stands unshaken upon its Basis of Truth That for a son of the same Mother to divulge the faults of his Brethren is not brother-like but quite beside the Rule of the Word and way of Gods holy ones Mr Edwards saith no and argueth the negat tels us in what cases the Brethren have divulged the faults of their Brethren But that was not to the case in question for it was not the case between his Brethren and him As I suppose every man will see that hath read the Apoll. Narr and his Booke against it which I did read next a sheet or two and there about I brake off for there me thought I met with too common and unbecomming language agreeable to a mans own spirit which like fire cannot be but it must break forth and so disagreeing to That spirit we should breath after that I cast downe the Booke with some distaste and then fell a dipping here I dipped and there I dipped a snatch and away as they say the dogge does in Nilus and for the same Logicke a dog hath because there are serpents there such biting things Indeed I discerned quickly the frame of the Booke and the spirit of the man heated above its due proportion in such matters and that my best way was to dip and away and so I hastened to the close of the booke the last leafe wherein the good man summons This Church and That and a third and all are but one to come at his call and to doe as he bids them * Truly Sir I could smile to see how the masters of their Assemblies stirre now like a mountaine which one man very imperiously bad come unto him the mountaine moved like

it selfe not a foot Well said the proud man if the mountaine will not come to me I will goe to the mountaine I wish heartily it may be so here but if that cannot be a brother cannot give forth to his brethren his right hand of fellowship yet let them have a place in his heart and then let him keep his station and let his brethren alone in theirs Hitherto I have told you may manner in reading large volumnes Efix upon the Beginning and the End speeding cursorily through the rest dipping here and there which is as much as is sutable with my time and disposition and may suffice whereby to give judgement for he that reades but a part may judge of the whole I meane the whole frame of the Booke and carriage of the businesse I shall not meddle with the doctrines there not with the Aenigma's and hard questions They are not to my purpose besides The cause of Truth shall not suffer in the weaknesse of my patronage I shall undertake him there where Truth shall master us both and blame him for that he will say himselfe is blame-worthy Notwithstanding I shall lightly passe over personall matters but so as they will whether I will or no stick upon him who hath so urged them against his brethren and so extremely marked what might be done amisse yet I shall remit him to the sentence of Scripture concerning these matters also there to stand or fall to his owne Master I dare not judge his intentions neither It is cleare against Master Perkins golden rule so to doe We must deale as tenderly there as with the apple of the eye A rule quite broken to pieces now adaies Truly if I might judge I should judge his intentions to be good * Nor shall I judge his Affections they might be boyled-up to a degree of heat we call zeale And then for that we call passion the fire of that zeale The Lord is judge betwixt him and his Brethren I shall onely touch upon the frame and structure of his Booke for the present And this onely I shall say It renders him a good Schollar but of too quick Invention he had his places and helps in a readinesse and hath found-out all that needed be found-out and an hundred things more And sure he was at cost for it 〈◊〉 hath made it his worke these seven yeares and more by prying into a way he meant not to walke-in and into bosomes of Pastours and Teachers and Disciples too most ungratious towards their gratious Teachers here and beyond seas with whom he meant not to agree but to serve his turne there to know the wayes of the houshold and knowing so much he thought he might befeared There is his Invention he has wandred through those places and found such helps which are not to be found but in his own Topicks Rhetoricks And having gathered his Simples he is as happy for Composition He is most blame-worthy for his Elocution and Action there for what was told him in darknesse that spake he in light And what he should have heard in the eare first that is privately he published as upon the house-tops But what speakes he out so loud that all both neare and further off must heare it as they must a great Bell long a Raising but being up City and Countrey rings of it what sayes he with so clear a voice No more but what wee might know before and the Apologists may confesse That they are men and though walking in a Church-way which should be every mans walke may yet sometime walke as men subject to the like-passions as the Anti-Apologistand we simple ones are subject to Alas Men are men Angels indeed they are by office not by nature That old leavened thing will put forth it selfe in the best and surely they are best who are most sensible thereof And for their writings Hominem olent as one said surely their very treasure may smell of the vessel an earthen vessel and that could not be cleansed with water which teacheth us a great lesson how to think and how to speake of men the very best of them and of their works that which is best or nothing at all I may contribute more to this anon This shall follow now which is so cleare in the Booke we have in hand that the R. Authour hath picked-up all the scatterings of Gods servants made them his gatherings What the servants of the Lord abominate sure and cast-out for refuse this he hath taken into his Booke and makes account of it as of a treasure He hath adorned his booke he thinks with the blotts and blurres such as may be found in the best mans life Alas If a man should set himselfe as he hath done to spie-out not as King Josiah did which is every mans duty what idols of jealousie are set-up in the heart and in the Land but what are or were the carriages of the Mosesses there he might observe miscarriages even in them though the meekest men upon earth So in S. Peter too after that he had made that great profession of that commanding affection Love to his LORD a and appealed to his Lords knowledge therein yet after all this behold a great miscarriage b yea and in S. Paul also What ever that thorne in his flesh was there are too many guessings at it but what ever it was there it had not beene nor had that messenger so buffeted him if he had not beene raised a little too high in his own thoughts And so much and more he sayes of himselfe but no man else besides himselfe Surely there is the same boundary for our words and actions which give a mould to our thoughts and makes them legible the same boundary I say which is set to our thinckings Whatsoever things are true and so forth till wee come to that which should bound our thoughts even touching our brother thinke of these things What things whatsoeverthings are honest just pure lovely of good report If there be any virtue any praise think on these things let these bound your own thoughts yea and your thoughts also touching your brother It is not so cleare in the text but it is according to the practise of all the godly that ever have been or are in the world When for just reasons they were to speake of themselves then they spake the very worst they could rather the most they could to throw downe themselves and exalt God Matthew the publican Paul the persecutour said they of themselves but none other besides themselves And as their words were such and so sutable were their thoughts But when these are to speake of their brethren then you may reade their thoughts in their words Whatsoever things are true honest just pure lovely of good report If there be any vertue any praise they thinke and they speake of those things Jobs and Jeremiahs impatience not a syllable touching that matter you

it That it was not Clypeus a buckler as the word imports also but a very Aspe a stinging Booke I conceive Mel. meaning to be so by that which followes I cannot tell sayes he what Luther will say to this Booke something sure he will reply and if so I shall entreat the man by all Scripture Obligations That what he saies may be with brevity in simplicitie of heart and without passion no bitternesse there none at all That was Mel. advise and that was his owne practise as we shall heare anon I will record M. Calvins practise next Luther was a man of an excellent spirit The Lord had heated it for those cold times But many times there were the workings of his owne spirit these wrought and put forth sometimes and once he was a little more eager then was comely against Calvin Well sayes Calvin Luther may say what he pleaseth of me he may call me dog if hee please but I must call him as I have ever accounted of him a pretious and excellent servant of the Lord so Calvin M. Ainsworth though dead yet speaketh for our instruction He was a man of a cleare judgement in the fundamentall Truths of God differed only from his Brethren in some circumstantials which were controverted mostly betweene him and M. P. his neighbour and very calmely still by M. Ainsworth That no difference might appeare in affections and so being able to master his passion he was still master of the Dispute M. P. fals upon M. Ains. in another businesse faulteth his translation of Moses 5. bookes That sometimes he useth the Hebrew word in the line sometimes that in the Margin And this he so forceth against M. Ainsw. that it did appeare plainly that the greatest differences between them were caused by the contrariety of M. P. affections towards M. Ainsw. M. Ainsw. thought himself engaged to make Reply to M. P. which he hath done and left out all personall matters as if he had not been concerned therein not at all for the Glory of God was not and fals upon the point payes that and cleares his translation before the eyes of all the learned in the world A good example to teach us how to manage a dispute M. Dury shall be the last an excellent Man and as good a pattern to write by for he followeth Truth and Peace decently and in Order and sheweth us all the way how we must pursue after it also if we mean to overtake it how so as we should rather breake all our bones then the peace of the Church This man hath had the fight of the Apol. Nar. hath throughly perused it doth appeare now in print That his judgement cannot fully close with it layeth downe his grounds of dissenting telleth us his well digested thoughts about it communicates his light to his brethren by which he walketh Intreateth his brethren to shew him their light Parswadeth all to come-up close to the light of Heaven So he maintaineth the brother-hood and maketh their bands stronger That is his aime and the bent of his soul all along And how well becomming a Son of Peace all this I could never saith one divide my selfe from any upon the difference of an opinion or be angry with his judgement for not agreeing with mine in that from which perhaps within few dayes I should dissent my selfe This thrust in it selfe while my thoughts were upon M. Dury and the way he hath and doth take to compose the fewdes and angry dissentions betwixt brethren by shewing forth this sweetnesse of spirit as one that would give all men to know That a good cause needeth not to be patronized by a passion but can sustaine it selfe best of all upon a temperate dispute A. M. Ed. speaketh onely Argumentativè by way of dispute only and that he might cry victoria he made the Arguments the sharper B. Very well but he should remember Melanct. rule We must every one dispute so That Truth may have the victory and charitie the triumph Though I am at a losse in my dispute said he I would not loose my patience and fall-out with my friends for then the Adversary will be a gainer and the Cause will be at a losse A sweet speech if it could sinke downe into our hearts it would perfume our spirits our tongues and pens also which have not been dipped only but steeped in vinegar and gall It would teach us to Reason a out our case like sober men not rave like mad men I le proceed a little further that I may propose Phi. Melanct. with whom as with Luther the Anti-Apol is so well acquainted for his and our Imitation I pray you heartily saies he Let Truth contend in its own strength and with its owne weapons not with yours they are commonly contumelies and nothing else We are all debtors to charitie which I pray from my heart may be kept inviolate and untouched Amen Yet this I le contribute more That Man is not fit to be a Champion for Truth who cannot Answer some Adversaries with silence and master sturdy and boysterous Arguments upon his knees This was Mel. manner his Adversaries rather Truths Adversaries infested him like Waspes he overcame them with patience saying nothing b sometimes and when he replyed it was with such softnesse that his words fell like snow with such meeknesse and modeation as if his words had been dipped in honey It may be replyed here A. What will you inferre from all this No more but what will be granted That the Anti-Apol has not done all things decently and in order not keeping so close to his Rule nor following the example of his betters Men are men every man hath not the same spirit nor one of an hundred such a sweet spirit as Phi. Melanct. had The Anti-Apol has done very well in the judgement of the best learned and best men in all our City for so I heare B. Very ill sure And that I may cleare it to every mans understanding I le make a supposition and upon that a question then you shall be able to give judgement on M. Edwards booke Suppose That my selfe or some other man having the same spirit M. Ed. has else he could not doe it should write against five of his brethren more or fewer who are for the Presbyterian way of Government I confesse I doe most unwillingly make mention of Presbyterian and Independent I am perswaded all the good and choice men are for the old-way the way of CHRIST and his Apostles for that way they are in the desire and travell of their soules But I must speake with the vulgar and to their understanding suppose I say That I could pick out five Ministers accounted Brethren now and are I suppose heartily now for the Presbyterian way of Government and should bend my pen against them I would not use the places M. Ed found in his Topicks nor take the helps he met with in