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A54205 William Penn's return to John Faldo's reply, called A curb for William Penn's confidence, &c. writ in defence of his answer to John Faldo's printed challenge. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1674 (1674) Wing P1355; ESTC R21591 18,461 30

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enough in the one nor Room enough in the other for more of the Labours of the Author of Quakerism No Christianity But he thanks me that I have put one Argument into his Mouth viz. Wherefore hath W. P. made such a Bussie against Mr. Hicks and me seeing he hath not toucht or much less answer'd the far greater part of my first Book Oh that J. Faldo would but learn to write Truth and not cover great Weakness and Baleness with so much Vntruth Have I not answered to every Charge in the first Book Examin'd 2 3 4 or 5. of his Witnesses at a time to each Charge that is Testimonies out of our Friends Books he brought to justifie it It seems then that my not fully Answering of his first Book is one Reason why he hath hitherto declin'd Publishing something against my second but had the Man been of this Mind before doubtless he would never have writ a Second But what saith J. F. to my second Book wherein I charge him in Point of Fact with so many horrid Abuses or our Principles and Writings Not one word unless that it is a considerable Book for Railing Confidence abusing Authors Impertinences Falshoods and unfaithful Gi●●ng what I pretend to confute What sence can be had against such a Flail Is this through the aboundings of the Man's M●desty Am I not like to be cur'd of my Confidence by a Curb made up of such Links Certainly unless J. Faldo hath as little Brains as this Character of my Book shows him to have of Honesty he cannot think tkis Entertainment should prevail with me to step over the Kennel to meet such A If ever Man was wrong'd I am in that Expression though his Saying and Not Proving helps it a little I will at present overlook all but the last Ill Quality he fastens upon my Rejoynder and that is Not fairly citing his Reply I think I may say I have quoted the better half of his Reply into my Rejoynder and that with such Distinction as any Capacity may discern his Matter from mine And where he hath quoted One Line of mine I have quoted Three of his But I cannot think this the Way to Carb my Confidence or to Act the Modest Man To Charge and Not Prove Nay to Overlook so much Charg'd and Proved against him in my Rejoynder That is Vnfairly Citing us grosly Perverting what is cited Adding or Diminishing as best answer'd his Ends overlooking my Matter Arguments and evading the Strength of most of what he cited Charging Consequences unfairly drawn upon us for our Principles and abusing our Writings to maintain that Abuse which is not only prov'd in the Body of the Discourse but summ'd up at the End of my Rejoynder to help the Readers Memory And so far hath the Man been from Defending himself Do●trinally that he suffers himself to remain without all Defence against my Charges But he hath told us very seasonably His farther Writing is not deem'd Convenient or Satisfactory A great deal of Wi●dom believe me in the D●emers and a great ●hare of Submission in t●is Adversary I confess it is no Argument to do Indiscretly a third time because a Man hath done so twice before Had I return'd him a Seurrilousc Frothy Evasive Pamphlet like his Reply to his great Book I should have blam'd my self not him but I did conscientiously consider it and bestow'd a large grave Discourse upon it faithfully citing and I hope as fully enervating it But to this he objects that seems the Strength of his Sheet if there be any in it that is That he made 12 Citations out of our own Books and brought 13 Texts of ●cripture to prove one Point of many that I took bu● 2 of each which granted makes nothing against me but proves himself Weak to say no worse For either each of them he brought was pertinent or not If not then his urging them calls him Impertinent If pertinent I answer'd the Law that saith In the Mouth of two Witnesses c. for I examin'd Two I thought of his Considerabl●st and sound them nothing to his Purpose but that he had aggravated his Evil by grosly Abusing our Books to prove his Infamous Charge Now I would fain know if it became not J. Faldo rather to have shown how weakly I invalidated his Evidence and prov'd him as Abuser of our Words then to tell the World I took but Two into Consideration for if he be gone upon them he is gone upon all for they are not a Jot more to his Purpose if so much as those examin'd And I did not holy my self oblieged to answer every impertinent Line in his Book If I skipt the Strength of his Evidence or that those I left had something not exprest or implyed in the other it had been proper for him to have particularly and expresly excepted against me all which he not doing his Objection is frivolous and amounts to no more then a mean Shuffle But he tells the World That also a whole Chapter of Apostolical Inspirations lye at my Door untoucht and that they may judge at what rate I have answer'd his Book Poor Man Is this all he can do after he hath thought fit to give us a second Book Must his first be his Asylum still Why did he not tell T. H. and W K. so to excuse his coming to Barbican Is he for Disputing notwithstanding and yet not for Writing It seems then that it is not deem'd Inconvenient to Dispute but Write Well! But why will J. Faldo drop things against himself and as he terms it put Instances in my Mouth to prove him a most Disingenuous and Impudent Person for did I not tell him That what concern'd us upon the Point of Inspiration I had treated at large else where and there was no need of a Repetition Now hath he shown or attempted an Enervation of that Nothing less Or that we were concern'd in that more then in his 4th Chapter No such Matter Or hath he given us one Reason why I ought to have consider'd it Or dare he say the other contain'd not the Matter of it What more can we say to a Man of this Fore-head I told him of Scores of Passages given by him under our Name he had not so much as cited Person or Book for as well as abundance willfully abused by him that he did cite To all which he is as mute as if I had never accused him or he had nothing to say in his own Vindication Is his Recrimination suppose a Reason for it in its place a valid Answer Would he have thought this enough to his two Books How easily could we have told J. F. Thou hast abused our Religion Books and Persons but would he have accepted this as a sufficient Answer or Rejoynder He tells the World of our Denying the Man's Nature or Man Chirst Jesus and brings a Company of wrested and misapplyed Sentences to vail his Abuse from the
86. My Answer pag. 250. 6. That the Quakers mean by the Vail that is over People their Belief of the Man Christ Jesus born of the Virgin Mary to be now existing in Heaven Ibid. p. 87. Vind. p. 93. My Answer pag. 251 252. Rejoynd pag. 395 396. 7. I take occasion to censure mens adding their Comments and Glosses fram'd from Study TO any part of the Scripture and J. Faldo cites me as complaining of such as frame them from the Study OF the Scriptures as if Studying OF the Scriptures and mens Adding their own Glosses TO the Scriptures were one and the some thing Vind. pag. 42 43. My Rejoynd p. 159. 8. From E. Burrough's making the Light of Christ within to be one in Nature with the Spirit of Christ J. Faldo infers That the Quakers hold the Soul to be God as if that had been said of the Soul which was said to the Light of Christ shining in the Soul or that they were Synonymous Vind. from p. 75. to 87. Rejoyndr p. 348 349 350. 9. Because E. B. rejected that Carnal Notion that confines the Infinite Omnipresent God to a Residence only above the Stars he makes no Difficulty of inferring that we deny the Manhood of Christ Jesus As most absurd as base Q. no C. p. 9 10. My Answer p. 14. Vind p. 9. Rejoynd p. 420. 10. From our affirming that such a kind of Reading of Scripture as the Pharisees used and to those Ends makes men harder to be wrought upon to true Conversion then the Heathen J. Faldo infers that reading the Scriptures and getting Knowledge thence puts Men into a worse Condition then the Heathen and that there 's scarcely anything more Dangerous then reading the Scriptures Yea he accuseth us of Charging the Miscarriages of Mens Souls on the Knowledge the Scripture by God's Blessing both convey Vind. p. 21 37. Rejoynd p. 126 127 425. Thus much and I wish here had been no occasion for this to evidence the false and unworthy Practice of J. Faldo against the Writings and Sayings of our Friends in order to compass his Designes I shall now give some touch upon his Confidence since he hath intituled me to an unparallel'd share and counts himself the fit Person to Curb me for it J. Faldo began with us in a great Book called Quakerism No Christianity I answered him in a Book intitled Quakerism a New Nickname for Old Christianity against this he put forth his Vindication unto which I made my Rejoynder consisting of TWENTY THREE CHAPTERS in which I vindicated our Principles striping them of those frightful Vizards and hateful Disguises he put upon them confirm'd them by many Scriptures and Reasons and to compleat our Defence produc'd iin favor of the whole above TWO HUNDRED TESTIMONIES out of both ancient and modern Authors Besides all this I faulted his Conduct and Behaviour in this Controversie in above FOUR HUNDRED PARTICULARS and that under distinct Sections most of which were not less unworthy of a good Christian yea an honest Heathen I will say of any fair Controvertist then the Ten I just now mention'd Notwithstanding this great Obligation upon him either to answer my Book or ente Muter to any farther Proceed in this Debate in my Absence at the first Barbican Meeting be●ore a great Concurse of People after T. Hicks had won the Goal by running Alone the Man as one in Love with such Romance-Trophys starts up like some Herald at Arms bids Defiance to the Quakers and their Religion gives forth his Challenge to W. Penn to dispute him I that he would and instead of his Glove flung a Paper to bind it which when all came to all was but some of the Contents of his first Book twice largely answered and because no farther Notice was taken of this Giant partly by not receiving his Paper so soon as might expect and partly by reason of these other Contests that claim Precedency That he might not be thought NoBody when so many strove to be Some-Body against us he prints it without all consideration had to my Rejoynder or so much as an Apology for his Silence to it which at least had become a Modest Person to give After all this can any man think J. Faldo Bashful or one that is so out of Love with Confidence in himself as that he is fit to Curb it in others Me thinks he should not believe that repetitious Farthing or Half-penny Paper feat enough toi excuse him or so sufficient to acquit him of old Debts as that without any Breach of Modesty or common Honesty he might encrease his former Score by fresh Charges It is but reasonable that he should make good what he hath done first and not that we should gratifie every importinent tautological Humor of J. F. But what saith John Faldo to this part of my Answer to his Challenge viz. But that I may acquit my self of that Duty incumbent on me for the Truth I do hereby signifie That in as much as the Controversie depending between T. Hicks c. and us takes in the most of the particulars of his Charge we freely consent that he should come in with them for a Share as Confederate in the same work and use his utmost Abilities to maintain his Accusations And if in any thing his Charge is singular we shall be ready to hear and fairly debate it at the same Meeting or Meetings to avoid fresh and unnessary Contests as much as justly may be To this he thus Replieth 1. I must fall into a Confederacy which the Antipaedo-baptists in the same Work Hold a little Mr. Penn If I have my Option I must deal with you singly More confuse rather then assist But it seems I must be wholely at your Appointment for although you had consented that in your Contest about Mr. Hicks's Dialogues there should four of each Party have Liberty to speak yet I no sooner began to oppose you being desired to be one of the four but you told me you were not to dispute with me but Mr. Hicks and call'd to T. Hicks and were follow'd by the Quakers Clamours of Hicks Hicks which answer'd your End and forc'd my Silence Contradiction and Falshood make up this Paragraph Was he not of the Confederacy when he tells us himself that he was not only a Party with them but One of the four pitcht upon to mannage their Cause But if he have his Option he must deal with me singly It is time for him indeed who hath been a double-dealing so long But certainly if the man were not more then ordinarily fond of hearing himself talk or extravagantly ambitious of a single Crown he would be contented with a Partner but this Option holds no Concord with his Adoption into the Confederacy He hath begun already as one of the four what hinders that he should not continue so But he thinks that more then one confounds rather then assists If so what made T. Hicks have three to help