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book_n author_n find_v great_a 1,744 5 2.5325 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A33205 An answer to the representer's reflections upon the state and view of the controversy with a reply to the vindicator's full answer, shewing, that the vindicator has utterly ruined the new design of expounding and representing popery. Clagett, William, 1646-1688.; Clagett, Nicholas, 1654-1727. 1688 (1688) Wing C4376; ESTC R11070 85,324 142

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be_v demand_v 1._o let_v he_o go_v through_o the_o 37_o head_n as_o i_o say_v before_o and_o tell_v we_o particular_o what_o the_o answerer_n charge_v upon_o papist_n which_o we_o do_v well_o in_o reject_v but_o ill_o in_o impute_v it_o to_o they_o and_o 2._o let_v he_o say_v plain_o to_o every_o particular_a where_o he_o think_v there_o be_v just_a occasion_n to_o say_v so_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v not_o receive_v you_o if_o you_o come_v with_o this_o belief_n or_o with_o this_o practice_n which_o yet_o you_o presume_v to_o call_v popery_n but_o if_o the_o representer_n will_v undertake_v for_o we_o upon_o these_o term_n even_o of_o popery_n as_o it_o be_v represent_v by_o that_o author_n then_o i_o must_v beg_v of_o he_o to_o tell_v we_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o such_o expression_n as_o these_o if_o you_o have_v true_o represent_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 18._o reflect_v p._n 18._o i_o will_v as_o soon_o be_v a_o turk_n as_o your_o papist_n that_o 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the_o same_o worship_n as_o christ_n himself_o and_o what_o do_v he_o conclude_v upon_o it_o why_o that_o any_o one_o may_v hold_v which_o side_n they_o please_v as_o a_o opinion_n or_o suspend_v their_o judgement_n but_o neither_o side_n be_v true_o what_o you_o ought_v to_o mean_v by_o popery_n and_o therefore_o i_o conceive_v that_o if_o neither_o side_n be_v popery_n the_o representer_n side_n be_v not_o popery_n but_o a_o private_a opinion_n which_o the_o church_n have_v not_o yet_o censure_v as_o the_o vindicator_n say_v now_o what_o the_o vindicator_n say_v in_o this_o case_n be_v applicable_a to_o all_o other_o where_o the_o answerer_n plain_o show_v that_o the_o eminent_a and_o lead_a man_n of_o the_o r._n church_n be_v of_o a_o different_a sentiment_n from_o the_o representer_n whereas_o therefore_o the_o representer_n either_o promise_v or_o threaten_v great_a matter_n in_o his_o introduction_n i_o will_v endeavour_v say_v he_o to_o separate_v these_o calumny_n and_o 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before_o produce_v the_o homily_n not_o as_o speak_v of_o what_o the_o papist_n do_v or_o not_o do_v but_o as_o universal_o condemn_v the_o use_n of_o image_n in_o church_n 262._o p._n 262._o and_o he_o give_v this_o account_n of_o it_o more_o full_o than_o i_o need_v to_o transcribe_v viz._n that_o as_o the_o father_n speak_v against_o image_n with_o some_o tartness_n and_o inveigh_v sort_n lest_o the_o christian_n who_o have_v be_v pagan_n themselves_o and_o now_o live_v among_o pagan_n may_v learn_v to_o worship_v idol_n so_o our_o predecessor_n come_v late_o out_o of_o popery_n and_o converse_v with_o papist_n and_o know_v that_o image_n use_v to_o be_v creep_v unto_o incense_v worship_v and_o adore_v among_o they_o might_n if_o they_o be_v suffer_v to_o stand_v as_o they_o do_v induce_v they_o to_o do_v as_o they_o have_v sometime_o do_v and_o therefore_o in_o a_o godly_a zeal_n such_o as_o move_v ezekias_n to_o destroy_v the_o brazen_a serpent_n they_o speak_v thus_o vehement_o and_o indeed_o hyperbolical_o against_o they_o for_o the_o people_n with_o who_o they_o then_o deal_v be_v by_o all_o mean_n ●o_o be_v preserve_v from_o the_o taint_n and_o tincture_n of_o their_o superstitious_a practice_n this_o be_v the_o whole_a truth_n of_o the_o business_n which_o the_o representer_n do_v not_o think_v fit_a to_o show_v but_o without_o take_v the_o least_o notice_n of_o the_o occasion_n and_o subject_n of_o this_o chapter_n run_v away_o with_o a_o few_o phrase_n that_o he_o pick_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n as_o best_a fit_n for_o his_o purpose_n such_o as_o hyperbolise_n stretch_v upon_o the_o tenter_n by_o all_o mean_n and_o the_o like_a and_o will_v make_v as_o if_o mr._n montague_n confess_v the_o church_n of_o england_n regard_v not_o how_o she_o represent_a papist_n and_o popery_n which_o wretched_a deal_n be_v according_a to_o no_o common_a honesty_n but_o his_o own_o and_o whoever_o go_v on_o at_o this_o rate_n will_v write_v himself_o out_o of_o all_o credit_n and_o there_o will_v be_v no_o need_n of_o answer_v his_o book_n it_o be_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n that_o he_o bring_v in_o mr._n m._n 19_o pref._n p._n 19_o again_o not_o think_v it_o any_o reflection_n upon_o he_o if_o he_o do_v not_o altogether_o agree_v or_o subscribe_v to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o book_n of_o homily_n in_o his_o time_n because_o it_o be_v a_o book_n fit_v for_o a_o season_n and_o declare_v necessary_a for_o these_o time_n what_o great_a wonder_n if_o what_o be_v a_o good_a doctrine_n under_o edward_n vi._n be_v not_o so_o in_o the_o time_n of_o king_n james_n etc._n etc._n for_o thus_o he_o will_v persuade_v we_o that_o we_o alter_v and_o change_v our_o religion_n according_a to_o time_n and_o season_n which_o be_v what_o we_o just_o charge_v upon_o they_o the_o compiler_n of_o
the_o homily_n and_o mr._n m._n mean_v the_o same_o thing_n which_o this_o man_n may_v show_v a_o fault_n in_o when_o he_o can_v viz._n that_o more_o care_n be_v necessary_a at_o some_o time_n to_o secure_a people_n from_o image-worship_n than_o at_o other_o though_o our_o religion_n which_o will_v not_o allow_v we_o to_o worship_v image_n be_v the_o same_o at_o all_o time_n if_o he_o think_v that_o the_o homily_n stretch_v their_o hyperbole_n too_o far_o let_v he_o compare_v they_o with_o what_o clemens_n alexandrinus_n tertullian_n minutius_n felix_n and_o other_o ancient_n say_v of_o the_o same_o subject_a and_o then_o tell_v 〈◊〉_d more_o of_o his_o mind_n but_o since_o as_o mr._n m._n judicious_o observe_v their_o severe_a reflection_n against_o all_o use_n of_o image_n whatsoever_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v by_o the_o danger_n of_o be_v seduce_v to_o idolatry_n which_o the_o christian_n be_v in_o in_o those_o time_n so_o may_v the_o less_o hyperbolise_v of_o our_o homily_n bear_v a_o good_a construction_n with_o reference_n to_o these_o time_n in_o which_o we_o be_v sure_a image_n be_v worship_v by_o certain_a people_n that_o the_o representer_n can_v tell_v of_o with_o no_o less_o devotion_n than_o the_o pagan_n worship_v they_o the_o reader_n i_o hope_v will_v now_o excuse_v i_o for_o take_v no_o more_o notice_n of_o his_o protest_v against_o the_o distinction_n of_o old_a and_o new_a popery_n his_o declare_v that_o their_o belief_n be_v always_o the_o same_o and_o his_o lamentable_a complaint_n that_o we_o be_v misrepresenter_n 21._o pref._n p._n 20_o 21._o and_o that_o we_o rake_v together_o some_o odd_a opinion_n out_o of_o private_a author_n etc._n etc._n that_o the_o head_n upon_o which_o our_o represent_v stand_n be_v so_o many_o fallacy_n and_o sophistry_n etc._n etc._n for_o if_o a_o man_n after_o the_o particular_n of_o his_o book_n have_v be_v particular_o answer_v will_v still_o betake_v himself_o to_o general_a outcry_n and_o make_v as_o if_o he_o intend_v to_o go_v on_o in_o this_o way_n as_o long_o as_o he_o live_v he_o ought_v to_o know_v at_o last_o that_o he_o may_v do_v so_o without_o any_o more_o disturbance_n and_o that_o no_o body_n will_v go_v about_o to_o answer_v he_o and_o so_o i_o come_v to_o consider_v his_o reflection_n upon_o the_o view_n of_o the_o whole_a controversy_n with_o the_o answer_n to_o his_o last_o reply_n it_o seem_v the_o stater_n as_o he_o observe_v have_v so_o good_a a_o opinion_n of_o it_o that_o he_o think_v it_o will_v put_v a_o end_n to_o the_o controversy_n the_o representer_n say_v that_o he_o be_v almost_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n and_o i_o say_v that_o i_o be_o altogether_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n and_o so_o there_o be_v one_o thing_n in_o which_o we_o do_v all_o of_o we_o almost_o agree_v but_o why_o be_v the_o representer_n almost_o of_o that_o mind_n because_o the_o answerer_n have_v say_v so_o little_a to_o that_o long_a bill_n which_o be_v draw_v up_o against_o the_o member_n of_o his_o church_n 22._o pref._n p._n 22._o wherein_o the_o crime_n of_o misrepresent_v be_v lay_v to_o their_o charge_n that_o beside_o what_o he_o confess_v the_o very_a gild_n appear_v so_o plain_o in_o the_o force_a excuse_n he_o make_v for_o the_o rest_n that_o there_o be_v little_a need_n of_o any_o more_o beside_o read_v his_o defence_n to_o see_v how_o far_o they_o be_v from_o be_v innocent_a so_o that_o by_o his_o own_o confession_n he_o bring_v in_o a_o long_a bill_n against_o some_o of_o our_o church_n wherein_o the_o crime_n of_o misrepresent_v be_v lay_v to_o their_o charge_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v it_o be_v long_o enough_o consider_v that_o it_o have_v neither_o truth_n nor_o pertinence_n as_o it_o be_v particular_o show_v he_o in_o the_o answer_n to_o his_o last_o reply_n for_o i_o must_v add_v that_o the_o answerer_n bring_v in_o a_o long_a answer_n of_o about_o 28_o page_n to_o the_o particular_n of_o the_o representer_n bill_n not_o omit_v any_o one_o charge_n upon_o any_o one_o of_o our_o author_n where_o there_o be_v direction_n to_o the_o passage_n by_o page_n or_o chapter_n and_o i_o do_v assure_v the_o reader_n that_o those_o six_o or_o seven_o line_n of_o he_o which_o i_o transcribe_v just_a now_o out_o of_o his_o preface_n be_v all_o the_o reply_n that_o he_o have_v give_v to_o that_o answer_n and_o i_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o remember_v and_o consider_v that_o that_o tedious_a charge_n of_o he_o the_o defence_n of_o which_o he_o now_o so_o visible_o forsake_v be_v manifest_o bring_v in_o to_o supply_v the_o place_n of_o defend_v his_o 37_o point_n of_o representation_n nay_o and_o of_o defend_v his_o very_a pretence_n for_o forsake_v they_o and_o yet_o that_o now_o at_o last_o he_o forsake_v the_o defence_n of_o those_o imputation_n upon_o particular_a author_n by_o which_o he_o hope_v to_o divert_v the_o reader_n from_o a_o expectation_n of_o reply_v pertinent_a to_o his_o first_o undertake_n now_o therefore_o i_o apply_v myself_o to_o the_o representer_n and_o desire_v he_o to_o take_v as_o much_o notice_n of_o what_o i_o say_v as_o if_o there_o be_v a_o finger_n against_o it_o in_o the_o margin_n that_o because_o he_o be_v so_o very_o modest_a as_o not_o to_o offer_v the_o least_o particular_a reply_n to_o those_o answer_n to_o his_o charge_n therefore_o his_o continue_v that_o charge_n be_v the_o great_a impudence_n with_o all_o my_o soul_n i_o wish_v that_o the_o gentleman_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v imply_v other_o sort_n of_o man_n to_o write_v against_o we_o for_o this_o man_n carry_v on_o the_o controversy_n not_o only_o to_o the_o disparagement_n of_o their_o cause_n in_o particular_a but_o to_o the_o discredit_n of_o religion_n in_o general_n but_o since_o i_o have_v such_o a_o countenance_n to_o deal_v with_o i_o must_v not_o think_v to_o let_v even_o those_o six_o line_n go_v without_o some_o particular_a answer_n to_o they_o for_o though_o he_o can_v with_o a_o good_a grace_n drop_v his_o own_o challenge_n and_o undertake_n one_o after_o another_o and_o as_o he_o once_o say_v grave_o turn_v over_o i_o know_v not_o how_o many_o page_n of_o we_o without_o offer_v a_o word_n to_o any_o one_o particular_a that_o he_o find_v there_o and_o never_o change_v countenance_n for_o the_o matter_n yet_o we_o be_v to_o watch_v every_o line_n of_o he_o and_o unless_o we_o intend_v to_o have_v another_o book_n from_o he_o we_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n set_v before_o midnight_n if_o he_o shall_v happen_v to_o deny_v it_o he_o pretend_v that_o his_o answerer_n say_v so_o little_a to_o his_o long_a bill_n etc._n etc._n what_o shall_v i_o say_v to_o this_o shall_v i_o print_v over_o again_o here_o the_o 28_o page_n which_o be_v take_v up_o in_o refute_v those_o cavil_n of_o the_o representer_n or_o be_v it_o not_o enough_o that_o i_o do_v now_o forbid_v he_o to_o make_v any_o reply_v to_o the_o particular_n of_o that_o answer_n he_o pretend_v that_o the_o answerer_n confess_v something_o beside_o what_o he_o confess_v say_v he_o so_o that_o if_o he_o may_v be_v believe_v the_o answerer_n have_v confess_v that_o some_o of_o those_o who_o he_o mention_n have_v misrepresent_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o this_o be_v add_v sin_n to_o sin_n for_o he_o confess_v no_o such_o thing_n and_o i_o will_v add_v that_o he_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o confess_v it_o these_o word_n indeed_o i_o find_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v ever_o either_o of_o his_o adversary_n undertake_v to_o justify_v all_o that_o any_o protestant_n divine_a or_o historian_n have_v at_o any_o time_n say_v in_o opposition_n to_o popery_n or_o be_v it_o not_o possible_a to_o give_v a_o more_o honest_a account_n of_o popery_n than_o he_o do_v without_o such_o a_o undertake_n and_o again_o though_o it_o be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o business_n to_o bring_v off_o every_o thing_n that_o have_v be_v say_v or_o do_v by_o protestant_n yet_o i_o shall_v a_o little_a examine_v what_o our_o representer_n have_v charge_v those_o with_o who_o he_o have_v single_v out_o to_o expose_v they_o to_o the_o world_n for_o my_o own_o part_n where_o his_o accusation_n in_o whole_a or_o in_o part_n fall_v just_o there_o they_o shall_v lie_v for_o i_o nor_o will_v i_o make_v another_o man_n fault_n my_o own_o by_o go_v about_o to_o defend_v it_o but_o be_v this_o confess_v that_o misrepresentation_n be_v prove_v upon_o any_o one_o author_n that_o be_v charge_v with_o it_o the_o answerer_n it_o seem_v be_v resolve_v as_o become_v he_o never_o to_o wrangle_v either_o for_o a_o friend_n or_o against_o a_o enemy_n and_o he_o find_v in_o the_o long_a bill_n one_o or_o two_o silly_a say_n of_o protestant_n which_o this_o man_n call_v misrepresentation_n for_o instance_n