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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A06697	A profitable dialogue for a peruerted papist. Or a little labour of a lay men tending to the profit of a peruerted Papist: namely, by laying open vnto him his ovvne errour, in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre. Composed in dialogue maner, as it were betweene a simple lay man, and certayne graue diuines, and published onely for the benefit of the lay Papist. VVritten by R.M. gent. and student in Diuinity.	R. M., student in divinity.	1609 (1609)	STC 17149; ESTC S103258	25,816	46

visible congregation which may professe Christ by words and deny him by deeds another Fourthly touching Baptisme the outward Sacrament the washing of the outward man is one thing and the inward grace the clensing of the inward man another Fiftly touching the Eucharist The outward Sacrament also foode for the Body is one thing and the inward matter euerlasting life for the soule another and so foorth in the like Now the faithfull knowing well the differences in these things and that the one may be oftentimes taken without the other will neuer permit the aduersary to passe away vncorrected with any vntrueth therein be it neuer so little because from one error another may ensue but not possible directly an errour to proceede from trueth for Gods word is not both Yea and Nay in one thing but absolutely Yea or Nay as S. Paul testifieth γ 2. Cor. 1. As touching the maner of my collecting hereof I may iustly auouch it from the first authors themselues but admit it were otherwise yet let no man be so vayne as to thinke the trueth to be of lesse force in one place then in another but let him rather learne this wisdome from S. Paul that although Paul or Apollos or whosoeuer plant and water yet it is God onely that giues the blessing of increase * 1. Cor. 3. 6 7. And because God may giue that heauenly blessing to whom he will and without respect of persons γ Ephe. 6. 9. in hope of the same blessing vpon this my little labour rude and harsh in maner and forme though in substance according to trueth I will now require no more of thee courteous Reader but that thou wilt permit it thy fauourable pasport and not to reiect the maner of it more then to respect the matter in it in so doing thou shalt declare thy selfe a most faithfull friend to the simple Trueth and thereby not iustly to offend any whosoeuer Vale. A profitable Dialogue for a peruerted Papist Wherein he may clearely discerne his owne error in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre The first part briefly treating of the Church Lay man DIuine Augustine forasmuch as thy proper workes are of great fame estimation in the Church of Rome which now in part is fallen from that her first faith and integrity which sometime thou didst know her sincerely to hold for she doth now presumptuously auouch that she can not erre in any substantiall poynt of the Christian faith and by reason of that vaine and presumptuous opinion she is fallen by euill custome into diuers errours by which great controuersies among Christians do arise therefore in the behalfe of many simple Lay people we most earnestly craue of thée Reuerend Father to tell vs directly thy true opinion touching the vayne opinion of them which hold that the same Church cannot erre We certaynely perswade our selues that thy direct answeres herein will greatly preuayle with those our aduersaries for some of them haue written a N. D. Author of the Wardword in his 1. booke of of the ● conuersions of England Chap. 3. as a matter of great moment against Heretiks that Wheresoeuer any doctrine is found in any of the Ancient Fathers which is not contradicted nor noted by any of the rest as singular that doctrine is to be presumed to be no particular opinion of his but rather the generall of all the Church in his dayes for that otherwise it would most certaynly haue bin noted and impugned by others c. Therefore whatsoeuer is spoken by thée learned Aug. not yet contradicted they must thereby graunt it to be the Trueth of the Church in thy flourishing dayes We confesse that the true holy Catholike Church cannot finally erre for hell gates are not able to preuayle against it b Mat. 16. 18. but this holy Catholike Church we vnderstand to consist onely of the Elect as our Créede witnesseth euen the Communion of Saynts which without spot or wrinkle Christ by his precious bloud hath made glorious to himselfe c Ephe. ● 27. for against all other hell gates doe preuayle and that doeth the Euangelist S. Iohn witnesse saying d 1. Iohn ● 19. They went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs But this cōmeth to passe that it might appeare that they are not all of vs c. But it is euident that against whosoeuer hell gates may preuayle they also may erre for it is most true that none can erre more then those that take the ready way to hell supposing they goe to heauen By which we may well hold against the Church of Rome that not all which receyue the outward Sacrament of Baptisme are then made members of that Church which cannot finally erre And by this wée may well proue also that the Bishop of Rome may as much erre as the meanest of vs Laymen Saint Ambrose sayth c Vpon S. Luk● the 6. Booke 9. Chap. that The foundation of the Church is sayth If thou wilt be a Rock sayth he thou shalt be in the Church because the Church is vpon a Rock if thou be in the Church the gates of hell shall not preuayle against thee the gates of hell are the gates of death but the gates of hell cannot be the gates of the Church And what are the gates of death that is to say the gates of hell but euery one of our seuerall sinnes c. And more in an other place f Vpon the 40. Psalm Where Peter the Rock is saith he there is the Church where the Church is there is no death but eternal life and therefore he added And the gates of hell shall not preuayle against it He then that liues and dyes in his sinnes both liues and dyes out of the vnity of that holy Church against which hell gates can not preuayle But for these things speake diuine Augustine Aug. My sonne g Against Cresconius the 2 booke Chap. 21 22. The Apostle Paul doth say h Ephe. ● 2. that the Church is made subiect to Christ The Church therefore ought not to preferre her self before Christ that she should thinke to be able to baptize those which are iudged or condemned by him but not possible of her selfe to baptize them because he alwayes iudgeth truely but the Iudges of the Church as being men are often deceyued Therefore forasmuch as pertayneth to the visible ministery both good and euill baptize But by them he doth inuisibly baptize of whom both the visible baptisme and the inuisible grace is Both good and euill then may sprinkle but to wash the conscience not any can do it but he which is alwayes good * None but God alwaies good And by this also by reason of the euill and polluted conscience the Church is ignorant of such as are condemned by Christ They are not thē in the Body of Christ which is the Church because