to church priviledges they are indeed in some places as to providentiall advantages of hearing the word preached but woe unto them on that account it shall be more tolerable for Mahumetans in that day of Christ then for them shall their Baptisme availe them though it were valid in its administration that is was celebrated in obedience to the cōmād of Christ is it not null to thē is not their circumcision uncircūcision shall such persons give their children any right to church priviledges let them if you please be so subjects to Christ as Rebells and Traitors are subject to their earthly princes they ought indeed to be so but are they so do they owne their Authority are they obedient to them do they enjoy any priviledge of Lawes or doth the Apostle anywhere call such persons as live in a course of wickednesse manifesting principles utterly inconsistent with the profession of the Gospell brethren God forbid we should once imagine these things so to be And so much for that chapter CHAP. VIII Of Independentisme and Donatisme THe Title of our Authors book is Independency a great Schisme of this chapter that it may be the better known what kind of schisme it is Independentisme is Donatisme Men may give what title they please to their books and chapters though perhaps few books make good their titles I am sure this doth not as yet nisi accusasse sufficiat Attempts of proof we have not as yet met withall what this chapter will furnish us withall we shall now consider He indeed that shall weigh the title Independentisme is Donatisme then casting his eye upon the first lines of the chapter it selfe find that the Reverend Author saies he cannot but acknowledge that what I plead for the vindication of protestants from the charge of schisme in their separation from Rome as the Catholick church to be rationall solid and judicious will perhaps be at a losse in conjecturing how I am like to be dealt withall in the following discourse a little patience will let him see that our Author laies more weight upon the Title then the preface of this chapter and that with all my fine trappings I am enrolled in the black booke of the Donatists but 1 quod fo rs feret feramus aequo animo or as another saith debemus optare optima cogitare difficulima ferre quaecunque erunt as the case is fallen out we must deal with it as we can 1. He saith he is not satisfied that he not only denies the Church of Rome so called to be a particular Church pag. 154. but also affirms it to be no Church at all That he is not satisfied with what I affirm of that Synagogue of Sathan where he hath his throne I cannot helpe it though I am sorry for it I am not also without some trouble that I cannot understand what he means by placeing my words so as to intimate that I say not only that the church of Rome is no particular church but also that it is no church at all as though it might in his judgment or mine be any Church if it be not a particular church For I verily suppose neither he nor I judg it to be that Catholick Church whereto it pretends But yet as I have no great reason to expect that this Reverend Author should be satisfied in any thing that I affirme so I hope that it is not impossible but that without any great difficulty he may be reconciled to himselfe affirming the very same thing that I do p. 113. It is of Rome in that sence wherein it claims it self to be a church that I speak in that sence he saies it is no church of Christs institution and so for my part I account it no church at all but he adds that he is far more unsatisfied that I undertake the cause of the Donatists and labour to exempt them from Schisme though I allow them guilty of other crimes But do I indeed undertake the cause of the Donatists do I plead for thē will he manifest it by saying more against them in no more words then I haved one do I labour to exempt them from Schisme are these the waies of peace love and truth that the Reverend Author walks in do I not condemne all their practises and pretensions from the beginning to the end can I not speak of their cause in Reference to the Catholick Church and its union but it must be affirmed that I plead for them But yet as if righteousnesse and truth had been observ'd in this crimination he undertakes as of a thing granted to give my grounds of doing what he affirms me to have done The first is as he saies His singular notion of Schisme limiting it only to differences in a particular Assembly 2. His jealousy of the charge of Schisme to be objccted to himselfe and party if separating from the true Churches of Christ be truly called Schisme A. What may I expect from others when so grave and Reverend a person as this Author is reported to be shall thus deal with me Sr I have no singular notion of Schisme but embrace that which Paul hath long since declared nor can you manifest any difference in my notion from what he hath delivered nor is that notion of Schisme at all under consideration in Reference to what I affirme of the Donatists who in truth were concerned in it the most of them to them to the utmost but the union of the Church Catholick and the breach thereof Neither am I jealous or fearfull of the charge ' of Schisme from any person living on the earth and least of all from men proceeding in church affaires upon the principles you proceed on Had you not been pleased to have supposed what you please without the least ground or colour or reason perhaps you would have as little satisfyed your selfe in the charge you have undertaken to manage against me as you have done many good men as the case now stands even of your own judgment in other things Having made this entrance he proceeds in the same way and pag. 164. laye's the foundation of the title of his booke this chapter of his charge of donatisme in these words This lies in full force against him and his party who have broken the union of our churches and separated themselves from all the protestant churches in the world not of their own constitution and that as no true churches of Christ this I say is the foundatiō of his whole ensuing discourse all the groūd that he hath to stand upon in the defence of the Invidious title of this chapter and what fruit he expects from this kind of proceeding I know not The day will manifest of what sort this work is Although he may have some mistaken apprehensions to countenance his conscience in the first part of his assertion or that it may be forgiven to inveterate praejudice though it be false namely that I and my party
the mercy of God in Jesus Christ I can freely forgive unto you all your reproaches revilings hard censurings and endeavours to expose me to publick obloquie and yet hope that I may have before we dy a place in your heart and prayers CHAP. X. Independency no Schisme WE are come now to the chapter that must do the work intended or else operam oleum perdidimus Independentisme a great Schisme is the title of it what this Independentisme is he doth neither here declare nor in any other part of his book nor do I know what it is that he intends by it I heare indeed from him that it is a schisme a Sect but of what peculiar import or wherein it consists he hath not declared I suppose he would have it taken for separation from true Churches but neither doth the notion of the name though invidiously broached and disavowed by them to whom it is ascribed import any such thing nor is the thing it selfe owned by them with whom he pretends to have to do I find indeed that he tells us that all Sectaries are Independents Anabaptists Seekers Ranters Quakers Doth he expect that I should undertake their defence what if it should appear that I have done more against them then our Reverend Author and many of his brethren joined with him he may perhaps be willing to load my selfe and those which he is pleased to call my associats my party I know not what with their evills and miscarriages But is this done as becomes a Christian a Minister a Brother what security hath he that had he been the only judge and disposer of things in Religion in this nation if I and my associats had been sent to plant Churches among the Indians that he should have prevented the eruption of the errors and abominations which we have been exercised withall in this generation unlesse he had sent for Duke D'Alva's instruments to work his ends by and indeed there is scarce any Sect in the nation but had they their desires they would take that course This may be done by any that are uppermost if they please But how shall we know what it is he intends by Independentisme All it may be that are not Presbyterians are Independents Among these some professedly separate both frō them us for there are none that separate from them but withall they separate from us that I know of because as they say neither theirs nor ours are true Churches we grant them to be true Churches but withall denie that we separate from them is it possible at once to defend both these sects of men is it possible at once with the same arguments to charge them The whole discourse then of our Reverend Author being uniforme it can concerne but one of these sects of Independents which it is any man may judge that takes the least view of his treatise He deals with them that unchurch their Churches unminister their ministers disanull their ordinances leaving them Churchless officerlesse and in the like sad condition Is this Independentisme a Schism though that it is properly so called he cānot prove yet I hope he did not expect that I should plead for it what I shall do in this case I professe well I know not I here denie that I unminister their ministers unchurch their Churches hath this Author any more to say to me or those of my perswasion doth not this whole discourse proceed upon a supposition that it is otherwise with them with whom he hath to do only I must tell him by the way that if he suppose by this concession that I justifie and owne their way wherein they differ from the congregationall ministers in England to be of Christs institution or that I grant all things to be done regularly among them and according to the mind of Christ therein I must professe he is mistaken In breife by Independentisme he intends a separation from true Churches with condemning them to be no churches and their Ministers no Ministers and their ordinances none or Antichristian whatever becomes of the nature of schisme I disavow the appearing as an advocate in the behalfe of this Independentisme If by Independentisme he understand the peaceable proceeding of any of the people of God in this nation in the severall parts of it to joine themselves by their free consent to walk together in the observation and celebration of all the ordinanees of Christ appointed to be observed and celebrated in particular churches so to reforme themselves from the disorders wherein they were intangled being not able in some things to joine in that way of reformation which many godlie ministers cōmonly called Presbyterians have ingaged in and seek to promote without judging condemning thē as to the whole of their station or ordināces If this I say be intended by Independentisme when the Reverend Author shall undertake to prove it Schisme having not in this book spoken one word or title to it his discourse will be attended unto This whole chapter then being spent against them who deny them to be true Churches and defend separation I marvaile what can be said unto it by me or how I come to be concerned in it who grant them true Churches and denie separation But our Reverend Author knowing that if this bottome be taken from under him he hath no foundation for any thing he asserts thought it not sufficient to charg me over and over with what is here denyed but at length attempts to make it good frō mine own words which if he doth effect make good I confesse he changes the whole nature and state of the dispute in hand Let ut see thenhow he answers this undertaking From those words of mine the reformation of any church or any thing in it is the reducing of it to its primitive institution approving the assertion as true he labors to evince that I deny their Churches to be true Churches how so I pray why we erect new churches out of no Churches and it had been happy for England if we had all gone to do this work among the Indians What will prove Englands happinesse or unhappinesse the day will manifest this is but mans day and judgment He is coming who will not judg by the seeing of the eye nor by the hearing of the ear In the mean time we blesse God think all England hath caus to blesse God what ever become of us that he and our brethren of the same mind with him in the things of God have their liberty to preach the gospell and carry on the work of reformation in their native soyle and are not sent into the ends of the earth as many of ours have been But how doth our gathering of Churches denie them to be true churches Doth our granting them to be true Churches also grant that all the Saints in England are members of their Churches It is notoriously known that it is and was otherwise and that when they and we
he will yet proceed and Sec. 13. informe his Reader that in that Treatise I aver that two things are required in a teacher as to formall ministeriall teaching 1. Gifts from God 2 Authority frō the Church well what then I am of the same mind still but now I cry down ordination by Presbytery what is not this a great alteration and signe of inconstancy Truly Sir there is more need of humiliation in your selfe then triumphing against me for the assertion is most untrue and your charge altogether groundlesse which I desire you would be satisfied in and not to be led any more by evill surmises to wrong mee and your owne soule He addes sect. 14. two cautions which in that treatise I give to private Christians in the exercise of their gifts and closeth the last of them with a Juvenile Epiphonema divinely spoken and like a true Presbyterian and yet there is not one word in either of these cautions that I do not still own and allow which confirmes the unhappinesse of the charge Of all that is substantiall in any thing that followes I affirme the same as to all that which is gone before Onely as to the liberty to be allowed unto them which meet in private who cannot in conscience joyne in the Celebration of publike ordinances as they are performed amongst us I confesse my selfe to be otherwise minded at present than the words there quoted by this Author do expresse But this is nothing to the difference between Presbytery and independency and he that can glory that in 14. yeares he hath not altered or improved in his conception of some things of no greater importance then that mentioned shall not have me for his rivall And this is the summe of M◠C. Appendix the discourse whereof being carried on with such a temper of spirit as it is and suited to the advantage aimed at by so many evill surmises false suggestions and uncharitable reflections I am perswaded the taking of that paines will one day be no joy of heart unto him CHAP. 3. A Review of the chargers Preface HIs first chapter consists for the most part in a repetition of my words or so much of the discourse of my first Chapter as he could wrest by cutting off one and another parcell of it from its coherence in the whole with the interposure of glosses of his own to serve him to make biting reflexions upōthem with whom he hath to deale How unbecoming such a course of procedure is for a person of his worth gravity and profession perhaps his {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} have by this time convinced him If men have a mind to perpetuate controversies unto an endlesse fruitlesse reciprocation of words and cavils if to provoke to easie and facile retorsions if to heighten and aggravate differences beyond any hope of reconciliation they may do wel to deale after this manner with the writings of one another Mr. C. knowes how easie it were to make his owne words dresse him up in all those ornaments wherein he labours to make me appeare in the world by such glosses inversions additions and interpositions as he is pleased to make use of but meliora speramus Some particulars that seem to be of any importance to our businesse in hand may be remarked as we passe through it pag. 1. He tels us the Donatists had two principles 1. that they were the onely Church of Christ in a corner of Africk and left no Church in the world but their owne 2. That none were truly baptized or entred members of the Church of Christ but by some Minister of their party These Principles he saies are againe improved by men of another party whom though yet he name not yet it is evident whom he intends and pag 3. he requires my judgement of those principles Because I would not willingly be wanting in any thing that may tend to his satisfaction though I have some reason to conjecture at my unhappinesse in respect of the event I shall with all integrity give him my thoughts of the principles expresséd above 1. Then if they were considered in reference to the Donatists who owned them I say they were wicked corrupt erroneous principles tending to the disturbance of the communion of Saints and everting all the rules of love that our Lord Jesus Christ hath given to his disciples and servants to observe if he intend my judgment of them in reference to the Churches of England which he calls independent I am sorry that he should thinke he hath any reason to make this inquiry I know not that man in the world who is lesse concerned in obteining Countenance to those principles then I am Let them who are so ready on all occasions or provocations to cast abroad the solemne formes of reproach Schismaticks Sectaries Hereticks and the like search their owne hearts as to a conformity of spirit unto these principles It is not what men say but what men doe that they shall be judged by As the Donatists were not the first who in story were charged with Schisme no more was their Schisme confined to Africk The agreement of multitudes in any principles makes it in its selfe not one whit better and in effect worse For my part I acknowledge the Churches in England Scotland and France Helvetia the netherlands Germany Greece Muscovia c. as far as I know of them to be true Churches such for ought I know may be in Italy or Spaine and what pretence or colour this Reverend person hath to fix a contrary perswasion upon me with so many odious imputations and reflections of being one of the Restorers of all lost Churches and the like I professe I know not These things will not be peace in the latter end shall the sword devour for ever I dare not suppose that he will aske why then do I separate from them he hath read my booke of Schisme wherein I have undeniably proved that I have separated from none of them and I am loath to say though I feare before the close of my discourse I shall be compelled to it that this Reverend Author hath answered a matter before he understood it confuted a book whose maine and chiefe designe he did not once apprehend The rest of this chapter is composed of reflections upon me from my owne words wrested at his pleasure and added to according to the purpose in hand and the taking for granted unto that end that they are in the right we in the wrong that their Churches are true churches and yet not esteemed so by me that we have separated from those churches with such like easie suppositions He is troubled that I thought the mutuall chargings of each other with Schisme between the Presbyterians and Independents was as to its heat abated and ready to vanish wherein he hath invincibly compelled me to acknowledge my mistake and I assure him I am heartily sorry that I was mistaken it will not be
my Treatise As the not giving a mans selfe up unto any way and submiting to any establishment pretended or pleaded to be of Christ which he hath not light for and which he was not by any act of his owne formerly ingaged in cannot with any colour or pretence of reason be reckoned to him for schisme though he may if he persist in his refusall prejudice his owne edification so no more can a mans peaceable relinquishment of the ordinary communion of one Church in all its relations be so esteemed These words have as yet unto me a very harmelesse aspect but our Reverend Author is sharp-sighted and sees I know not what monsters in them for first saith he here he seems to me to be a very Sceptick in his way of independency why so I pray This will gratify all sects Quakers and all with a toleration how I pray it is Schisme not toleration we are treating about But this leaves them to judge of as well as others what is and what is not according to the mind of Christ why pray Sr. who is appointed to judge finally for them why then should they be denied their liberty but is that the thing under consideration had you concluded that their not submitting to what they have not light for its institution is not properly Schisme you should have seen how far I had been concerned in the inference but excursions unto Quakers c. are one topick of such discourses But now he askes me one Question it seems to try whither I am a Sceptick or no whether saith he does he believe his owne way to be the only true way of Christ for he hath instituted but one way having run from and renounced all other waies in this nation I promise you this is a hard Question and not easily answered If I deny it he will say I am a Sceptick and other things also will be brought in if I affirme it it may be he will say that I condemne their churches for no churches and the like it is good to be wary when a man hath to deale with wise men how if I should say that our way and their way is for the substance of them one way and so I cannot say that my way is the only true way exclusively to theirs I suppose this may do pretty well But I fear this will scarce give satisfactiō yet I know not well how I can go any farther yet this I will adde I doindeed believe that wherein their way and our way differ our way is according to the mind of Christ and not theirs and this I am ready at any time God assisting personally to maintaine to him and as for my running from waies of religion I dare againe tell him these reproaches and calumnies become him not at all But he proceeds if so saith he is not every man bound to come into it and not upon every conceived new light to relinquish it Truly I think Mr. C. himselfe is bound to come into it and yet I do not think that his not so doeing makes him a Schismatick and as for relinquishment I assert no more then what he himselfe concludes to be lawfull And thus Christian Reader I have given thee a briefe account of all things of any importance that I could meet withall in this treatise and of many which are of very little if thou shalt be pleased to compare my treatise of Schisme with the refutation of it thou wilt quickly see how short this is of that which it pretends to how untouched my principles do abide and how the most materiall parts of my discourse are utterly passed by without any notice taken of them The truth is in the way chosen by this Reverend Author to proceed in men may multiply writings to the worlds end without driving any controversy to an issue descanting and harping on words making exceptions to particular passages and the like is an easy and facile and to some men a pleasant labour what small Reason our Author had to give his book the title it bears unlesse it were to discover his designe I hope doth by this time appeare Much of the proofe of it lies in the repeated asseverations of it it is so and it is so If he shall be pleased to send me word of one argument tending that way that is not founded in an evident mistake I will promise him if I live a reconsideration of it In the mean time I humbly beg of this Reverend Author that he would review in the presence of the Lord the frame of spirit wherein he wrote this charge as also that he would take into his thoughts all the reproaches and all that obloquy he hath endeavoured to load me causlesly and falsly withall As for my selfe my name reputation and esteeme with the Churches of God to whom he hath indeavoured to render me odious I commit the whole concernment of them to him whose presence through grace I have hitherto injoyed and whose promise I leane upon that he will never leave me nor forsake me I shall not complaine of my usage but what am I of the usage of many pretious Saints and holy Churches of Jesus Christ to him that lives and sees any farther then by begging that it may not be laid to his charge and if so meane a person as I am can in any way be serviceable to him or to any of the churches that he pleads for in reference to the Gospell of Christ I hope my life will not be deare to me that I may effect it and I shall not cease to pray that both he and those who promoted this worke in his hand may at length consider the many calls of God that are evident upon them to lay aside these unseemly animosities and to endeavour a coalition in love with all those who in sincerity call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours For the distances themselves that are between us wherein we are not as yet agreed what is the just state of them the truth and warrantablenesse of the principles whereupon we proceed with the necessity of our practice in conformity thereunto what we judge our Brethren to come short in of or wherein to go beyond the mind of Jesus Christ with a farther ventilation of this businesse of Schisme I have some good grounds of expectation that possibly ere long we may see a faire discussion of these things in a pursuit of truth and peace FINIS
business in hand answering Arguments by reflections and the like might also be remarked One thing wherein he much rejoyceth and fronts his book with the discovery he hath made of it namely concerning my change of judgment as to the difference under present debate which is the substance and designe of his appendix must be particularly considered and shall be God assisting in the next Chapter accordingly CHAP. 2. An Answer to the Appendix of Mr. C◠Charge THough perhaps impartiall men will be willing to give me an acquitment from the charge of altering my judgment in the matters of our present difference upon the generall account of the copartnership with me of the most inquiring men in this generation as to things of no lesse importance and though I might against this reverend brother and others of the same mind and perswasion with him at present relieve my selfe sufficiently by a recrimination in reference to their former Episcopall engagements and sundry practices in the worship of God them attending pleading in the meane time the generall issue of changing from error to truth which that I have done as to any change I have really made I am ready at any time to mainetaine to this Author yet it being so much insisted upon by him as it is and the charge thereof in the instance given accompanied with so many evill surmisings and uncharitable reflections looking like the fruits of another principle then that whereby we ought in the mannagement of our differences to be ruled I shall give a more particular account of that which hath yeilded him this great advantage The sole instance insisted on by him is a small treatise published long agoe by me intitled The duty of Pastors and People distinguished wherein I professe my selfe to be of the Presbyterian judgment Excerpta out of that treatise with animadversions and comparisons thereon make up the appendix which was judged necessary to be added to the book to help on with the proofe that Independency is a great schisme had it not been indeed needfull to cause the person to suffer as well as the thing some suppose this paines might have been spared But I am not to prescribe to any what way it is meet for them to proceed in for the compassing of their ends aimed at The best is here is no new thing produced but what the world hath long since taken notice of and made of it the worst they can Neither am I troubled that I have a necessity laid upon me to give an account of this whole matter That little treatise was written by me in the yeare 1643 and then printed however it received the addition of a yeare in the date affixed to it by the printers which for their owne advantage is a thing usuall with them I was then a young man my selfe about the age of 26. or 27. yeares The controversie between Independencie and Presbytery was young also nor indeed by mee clearly understood especially as stated on the Congregationall side The conceptions delivered in the treatise were not as appeares in the issue suited to the opinion of the one party nor of the other but were such as occurred to mine owne naked consideration of things with relation to some differences that were then upheld in the place where I lived only being unacquainted with the Congregationall way I professed my selfe to owne the other party not knowing but that my principles were suited to their judgement and profession having looked very little further into those affaires then I was led by an opposition to Episcopacy Ceremonies Upon a review of what I had thē asserted I found that my principles were far more suited to what is the judgment and practice of the congregationall men then those of the Presbiterian Only whereas I had not received any farther cleare information in these waies of the worship of God which since I have been ingaged in as was said I professed my selfe of the Presbyterian judgment in opposition to Democraticall confusion and indeed so I do still and so do all the congregationall men in England that I am acquainted withall so that when I compare what then I wrote with my present judgment I am scarce able to find the least difference between the one and the other only a misapplication of names and things by me gives countenance to this charge Indeed not long after I set my selfe seriously to enquire into the controversies then warmly agitated in these nations Of the congregationall way I was not acquainted with any one person minister or other nor had I to my knowledg seen any more then one in my life My acquaintance lay wholly with ministers and people of the Presbyterian way But sundry books being published on either side I perused and compared them with the Scripture and one another according as I received ability from God After a generall view of them as was my manner in other controverses I fixed on one to take under peculiar consideration and examination which seemed most methodically and strongly to maintaine that which was contrary as I thought to my present perswasion This was Mr. Cotton's book of the keyes The examination and confutation hereof meerly for my owne particular satisfaction with what diligence and sincerity I was able I ingag'd in What progresse I made in that undertaking I can manifest unto any by the discourses on that subject and animadversions on that book yet abiding by me In the pursuit and management of this work quite besides and contrary to my expectation at a time and season wherein I could expect nothing on that account but ruine in this world without the knowledge or advice of or conference with any one person of that judgment I was prevailed on to receive that and those principles which I had thought to have set my selfe in an opposition unto And indeed this way of impartiall examining all things by the word comparing causes with causes and things with things laying aside all prejudicate respects unto persons or present Traditions is a course that I would admonish all to beware of who would avoid the danger of being made independents I cannot indeed deny but that it is possible I was advantaged in the disquisition of the truth I had in hand from my former imbracing of the principles laid down in the treatise insisted on now being by this means setled in the Truth which I am ready to maintaine to this Reverend and learned Auhor if he or any other suppose they have any advantage hereby against me as to my reputation which alone is sought in such attempts as this or if I am blameably liable to the charge of inconstancy and inconsistency with my owne principles which he thought meet to front his book withall hereupon I shall not labour to devest him of his apprehension having abundant cause to rejoice in the rich grace of a mercifull and tender father that men seeking occasion to speake evill of so poor a worme tossed up
and down in the midst of innumerable temptations I should be found to fix on that which I know will be found my rejoicing in the day of the Lord Jesus I am necessitated to adde somewhat also to a surmise of this Reverend man in reference to my Episcopall compliances in former daies and strict observation of their canons This indeed I should not have taken notice of but that I find others besides this Author pleasing themselves with this apprehension and endeavoring an advantage against the truth I professe thereby How little some of my Adversaries are like to gaine by branding this as a crime is known and I professe I know not the Conscience that is exercised in this matter But to deliver them once for all from involving themselves in the like unchristian procedure hereafter let them now know what they might easily have known before namely that this accusation is false a plain calumny a ly As I was bred up from my infancy under the care of my father who was a non-conformist all his daies a painfull labourer in the vineyard of the Lord so ever since I came to have any distinct knowledge of the things belonging to the worship of God I have been fixed in judgment against that which I am calumniated withall which is notoriously known to all that have had any acquaintance with me what advantage this kind of proceeding is like to bring to his owne soule or the cause which he mannageth I leave to himselfe to judge Thus in generall to take a view of some particular passages in the Appendix destined to this good worke the first Section tries with much wit and Rhetorick to improve the pretended alteration of judgment to the blemishing of my Reputation affirming it to be from truth to error which as to my particular so farre as it shall appeare I am cōcern'd I am little moved with the bare affirmation of men especially if induced to it by their interest I desire him to let me know when and where I may personally wait upon him to be convinced of it in the mean time so much for that Section in the second he declares what my judgment was in that treatise about the distance between Pastors and People and of the extreams that some men on each hand run into and I now tell him that I am of the same mind still so that that note hath little availed him In the third he relates what I delivered that a man not solemnly called to the office of the Ministry by any outward call might do as to the preaching of the Gospell in a collapsed Church-state unto this he makes sundry objections that my discourse is darke not cleare and the like but remembring that his businesse was not to confute that treatise also but to prove from it my inconstancie and inconsistencie with my selfe he sayes I am changed from what I then delivered this is denied I am punctually of the same judgment still but he proves the contrary by a double argument 1. Because I have renounced my ordination 2. Because I thinke now that not only in a compleat Church-state but when no such thing can be charged that gifts and consent of the people is enough to make a man a Preacher in office both untrue and false in fact I professe I am astonished to thinke with what frame of spirit what neglect of all rules of truth and love this businesse is mannaged In the fourth Section He chargeth me to have delivered somewhat in that treatise about the personall indwelling of the Holy Ghost in believers and my words to that purpose are quoted at large What then am I changed in this also no but that is an error in the judgment of all that be orthodox but that is not the businesse in hand but the Alteration of my judgment wherfore he makes a kind of exposition upon my words in that treatise to shew that I was not then of the mind that I have now delivered my selfe to be of in my book of Schisme but I could easily answer the weakenesse of his exceptions and pretended expositions of my former assertions and evidence my consistency in judgment with my selfe in this businesse ever since but this he saith is an error which he gathered out of my book of Schisme and some body hath sent him word from Oxford that I preached the same doctrine at St. Maries I wish his informer had never more deceived him it is most true I have done so and since printed at large what then I delivered with sundry additions thereunto and if this Reverend Author shall think good to examine what I have published on that account not in the way in this treatise proceeded in which in due time will be abhorred of himself all good men but with candor and a spirit of Christian ingenuity and meeknesse I shall acknowledg my selfe obliged to him and in the mean time I desire him to be cautious of large expressions concerning all the Orthodox to oppose that opinion seeing evidences of the contrary lie at hand in great plenty and let him learne from hence how little his insulting in his book on this account is to be valued Sec. the 5. he shews that I then proved the name of priests not to be proper or to be ascribed to the ministers of the Gospell but that now as is supposed in scorne I call the ministers of their particular congregations parochiall priests untrue In the description of the Prelaticall Church I shewed what they esteemed and called parish ministers amongst them I never called the Presbyterian ministers of particular Congregations parochiall priests Love truth and peace these things ought not thus to be Sec. the 6. He labours to find some difference in the tendency of severall expressions in that treatise which is not at all to the purpose in hand nor true as will appeare to any that shall read the treatise it selfe In the 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. Sec He takes here and there a sentence out of the treatise and examins it interlacing his discourse with untrue reflections surmizes and prognostications and in particular p. the 238 239. But what doth all this availe him in reference to his designe in hand not only before but even since his exceptions to the things then delivered I am of the same mind that I was without the least alteration And in the viewing of what I had then asserted I find nothing strange to me but the sad discovery of what frame of spirit the charge proceeded from Sec. 12. doth the whole worke there I acknowledge my selfe to be of the Presbyterian judgment and not of the Independent or congregationall Had this Reverend Author thought meet to have confined his charge to this one quotation he had prevented much evill that spreads it selfe over the rest of his discourse and yet have attained the utmost of what he can hope for from the whole and hereof I have already given an account But
separation into parties in the politicall use of the word why it may not so be used in the ecclesiasticall sense I see no reason but if this be the way of begging the Question I confesse I know not what course to take to prove what I intend Such words are used sometimes in warm disputes causelessely it were well they were placed where there is some pretence for them Certainly they will not serve every turne Before I asserted the use of the word I instanced in all the places where it is used and evinced the sense of it from them if this be begging it is not that lazy trade of begging which some use but such as a man had as good professedly worke as follow How well he hath disproved this sense of the word from Scripture we have seen I am not concerned in his seeing no reason why it may not be used in the ecclesiasticall sense according to his conception my enquiry was how it was used not how it might be used in this Reverend Authors judgment And this is the substance of all that is offered to overthrow that principle which if it abide and stand he must needs confesse all his following pains to be to no purpose He sees no reason but it may be as he saies After the declaration of some such suspitions of his as we are now wonted unto and which we cannot deny him the liberty of expressing though I professe he do it unto my injurie he saies this is the way on the one hand to free all church-separation from schisme and on the other to make all particular churches more or lesse inschismaticall well the first is denyed what is offer'd for the confirmation of the second saith he what one congregation almost is there in the world where there are not differences of judgment whence ensue many troubles about the compassing of one common end and designe I doubt whether his owne be free therefore If my testimony may remove his scruple I assure him through the grace of God hitherto it hath been so and I hope it is so with multitudes of other Churches those with whome it is otherwise it will appear at last to be more or lesse blameable on the account of Schisme Omitting my farther explication of what I had proposed he passes unto p. 27. of my book and thence transcribes these words they had differences among themselves about unnecessary things on these they engaged into disputes and sidings even in the solemne assemblies probably much vaine janglings alienation of affections exasperations of spirit with a neglect of due offices of love ensued hereupon whereunto he subjoines that the Apostle charges this upon them is true but was that all were there not divisions into parties as well as in judgments we shall consider that ere long But I am sorry he hath waved this proper place of the consideration of this important assertion the truth is hic pes figâ—ndus if he remove not this position he labours in vain for the future I desire also to know what he intends by divisions into parties if he intend that some were of one party some of another in these divisions and differences it is granted there can-be no difference in judgment amongst men but they must on that account be divided into parties but if he intend thereby that they divided into severall churches assemblies or congregations any of them setting up new churches on a new account or separating from the publick assemblies of the church whereof they were and that their so doing is reproved by the Apostle under the name of Schisme then I tell him that this is that indeed whose proofe is incumbent on him Faile he herein the whole foundation of my discourse continues firme and unshaken the truth is I cannot meet with any one attempt to prove this which alone was to be proved if he intended that I should be any farther concerned in his discourse then onely to find my selfe revil'd and abused Passing over what I produce to give light and evidence unto my assertion he proceeds to the consideration of the observations and inferences I make upon it p. 29. and onward The first he insists upon is that the thing mentioned is entirely in one Church amongst the members of one particular society no mention is made of one church divided against another or separated from another To this he replies 1. that the church of Corinth was a collective church made up of many congregations and that I my selfe confesse they had solemne assemhlies not one assembly onely that I beg the Question by taking it for one single congregation But I suppose one particular congregation may have more then one solemne assembly even as many as are the times wherein they solemnly assemble 2. I supposed I had proved that it was only one congregation that used to assemble in one place that the Apostle charged this crime upon and that this Reverend Author was pleased to overlook what was produced to that purpose I am not to be blamed 3. Here is another discovery that this Reverend person never yet clearly understood the designe of my treatise nor the principles I proceed upon Doth he think it is any thing to my present businesse whither the church of Corinth were such a church as Presbyterians suppose it to be or such a one as the Independents affirme it whilst all ackowledge it to be one church be that particular church of what kind it will if the Schisme rebuked by the Apostle consisted in division in it and not in separation from it as such I have evinced all that I intended by the Observation under consideration Yet this he againe persues and tells me that there were more particular churches in and about Corinth as that at Cenchrea and that their differences were not confined to the verge of one church for there were differences abroad out of the Church and saies that at unawares I confess that they disputed from house to house and in the publick assemblies but I will assure the Reverend Author I was aware of what I said Is it possible he should suppose that by the verge of one Church I intended the meeting place and the assembly therein was it at all incumbent on me to prove that they did not manage their differences in private as well as in publick is it likely any such thing should be did I deny that they sided and made parties about their divisions and differences is it any thing to me or to any thing I affirme how where and when they managed their disputes and debated their controversies it is true there is mention of a church at Cenchrea but is there any mention that that church made any separation from the church of Corinth or that the differences mention'd were between the members of these severall churches is it any thing to my present designe though there were 20 particular congregations in Corinth supposing that on any consideration they were one Church
place to the Corinthians is not the only place wherein there is in the Scripture any mention of schisme in an ecclesiasticall sense or that the Church of Corinth was not a particular church is any thing of importance offerd to impaire the assertion that the evill reproved was within the verge of that church and without separation from it and do I need any more to make good to the utmost that which I have asserted but of these things afterwards In all that followes to the end of this chapter I meet with nothing of importance that deserves farther notice that which is spoken is for the most part built upon mistakes as that when I speak of a member or the members of one particular church I intend onely one single congregation exclusively to any other acceptation of that expression in reference to the apprehension of others that I denie the reformed Churches to be true churches because I denie the Church of Rome to be so and denie the institution of a nationall church which yet our Author pleads not for He would have it for granted that because Schisme consists in a difference among church members therefore he that raises such a difference whither he be a member of that church wherein the difference is raised or of any other or no suppose he be a Mahumetan or a Jew is a Schismatick pleads for the old definition of Schisme as suitable to the Scripture after the whole foundation of it is taken away wrests many of my expressions as that in particular in not making the matter of Schisme to be things relating to the worship of God to needlesse discourses about Doctrine and Discipline not apprehending what I intended by that expression of the worship of God and I suppose it not advisable to follow him in such extravagancies The usuall aggravations of Schisme he thought good to reinforce whither he hoped that I would dispute with him about them I cannot tell I shall now assure him that I will not though if I may have his good leave to say so I lay much more weight on those insisted on by my selfe wherein I am encouraged by his approbation of them CHAP. 5. THe third Chapter of my Treatise consisting in the preventing and removing such objections as the precedent discourse might seem lyable and obnoxious unto is proposed to examination by our Reverend Author in the third Chap. of his Booke and the objections mentioned undertaken to be managed by him with what successe some few considerations will evince The first Objection by me proposed was taken from the Common Apprehension of the nature of Schisme and the issue of stateing it as by me layd down namely hence it would follow that the separation of any man or men from a true Church or of one Church from others is not Schisme But now waving for the present the more large consideration of the name thing which yet in the processe of my discourse I do condescend upon according to the principle layd down I say that in the precise signification of the word and description of the thing as given by the holy Ghost this is true no such separation is in the scripture so called or so accounted whither it may not in a large sence be esteemed as such I do not dispute yea I afterwards grant it so farre as to make that concession the bottome and foundation of my whole plea for the vindication of the reformed churches from that crime Our Reverend Author reinforces the objection by sundry instances As 1. that he hath disproved that sence or precise signisication of the word in Scripture how well let the Reader judge 2. That supposing that to be the onely sence mentioned in that case of the Corinthians yet may another sence be intimated in Scripture and deduced by regular and rationall consequence Perhaps this will not be so easy an undertaking this being the onely place where the name is mentioned or thing spoken of in an Ecclesiasticall sence but when any proofe is tendred of what is here affirmed we shall attend unto it It is said indeed that if separation in Judgment in a Church be a Schisme much more to separate from a Church but our question is about the precise notion of the word in Scripture and consequences from thence not about consequents from the nature of things concerning which if our Author had been pleased to have staid a while he would have found me granting as much as he could well desire 3. 1 John 2. 19. is sacrificed {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and interpreted of Schisme Where to make one venture in imitation of our Author All Orthodox Interpreters and writers of controversies expound it of Apostacy neither will the context or arguing of the Apostle admit of another exposition mens wresting of Scripture to give countenance to inveterate errours is one of their worst concomitants so then that seperation from Churches is oftentimes evill is readily granted of what nature that evill is with what are the aggravations of it a judgment is to be made from the pleas and pretences that its circumstances afford so farr as it proceeds from such dissensions as before were mentioned so far it proceeds from schisme but in its own nature absolutely considered it is not so To render my former assertions the more unquestionably evident I consider the severall accounts given of mens blameable departures ' from any Church or Churches mentioned in Scripture and manifest that none of them come under the head of Schisme Apostasy irregularly of walking and professed sensuality are the heads whereunto all blameable departures from the Churches in the Scripture are referred That there are other accounts of this crime our Author doth not assert he onely saies that all or some of the places I produce as instances of a blameable separation from a Church do mind the nature of Schisme as precedaneous to the separation What ere the matter is I do not find him speaking so faintly and with so much caution through his whole discourse as in this place all or some do it they mind the nature of Schisme they mind it as precedaneous to the separation so the summe of what he aims at in contesting about the exposition of those places of Scripture is this some of them do mind I know not how the nature of Schisme which he never once named as precedaneous to separation therefore the precise notion of Schisme in the Scripture doth not denote differences and divisions in a Church only Quod erat demonstrandum That I should spend time in debating a consideration so remote from the state of the controversie in hand I am sure will not be expected by such as understand it Pag. 77. Of my treatise I affirm that for a man to withdraw or withold himselfe from the communion externall and visible of any Church or Churches on that pretention or plea be it true or otherwise that the worship doctrine or
of church members of the right of the members of the Catholick church to all ordinances of the miscarriage of the Independents of church Matriculations and such like things not once considered by me in my proposall of the matter in hand are fallen upon By the way he fals upon my judgment about the inhabitation of the Spirit calls it an error and saies so it hath been reputed by all that are orthodox raising terrible suspitions and intimations of judgments on our way from God by my falling into that error when yet I say no more then the Scripture saith in expresse tearms forty times for which I referre him to what I have written on that subject wherein I have also the concurrence of Polanus Bucanus Dorchetus with sundry others Lutherans and Calvinists It may be when he hath seriously weighed what I have offered to the clearing of that glorious truth of the Gospell he may entertain more gentle thoughts both concerning it and mee The rest of the chapter I have passed thorow once and againe and cannot fix on any thing worthy of farther debate A difference is attempted to be found in my description of the union of a particular Church in this and another place because in one place I require the consent of the members to walke together in another mention only their so doing when the mention of that only was necessary in that place not speaking of it absolutely but as it is the difference of such a church from the church Catholick some impropriety of expression is pretended to be discovered id populus curat scilicet which yet is a pure mistake of his not considering unto what especiall end and purpose the words are used He repeats sundry things as in opposition to me that are things laid down by my selfe and granted Doth he attempt to prove that the union of a Church is not rightly stated he confesseth the form of such a Church consists in the obscrvance and performance of the same ordinances of worship numerically I aske is it the command of Christ that believers should so doe is not their obedience to that command their consent so to do are not particular churches instituted of Christ is it not the duty of every believer to join himselfe to some one of them was not this acknowledged above can any one do so without his consenting to do so is this consent any thing but his voluntary submission to the ordinances of worship therein As an expresse consent and subjection to Christ in generall is required to constitute a man a member of the Church Catholick visible so if the Lord Jesus hath appointed any particular church for the celebration of his ordinances is not their consent who are to walke in them necessary thereunto But the Topick of an explicite covenant presenting its selfe with an advantage to take up some leaves would not be waved though nothing at all to the purpose in hand After this my confession made in as much condescension unto compliance as I could well imagine of the use of greater assēblies is examined and excepted against as being in my esteem he saith though it be not so indeed a matter of prudence only But I know full well that he knows not what esteeme or disesteem I have of sundry things of no lesse importance The consideration of my postulata proposed in a preparation to what was to be insisted on in the next Chapter as influenced from the foregoing dissertations alone remaines and indeed alone deserve our notice My first is this The departing of any man or men from any particular Church as to the communion peculiar to such a Church is no where called Schisme nor is so in the nature of the thing it selfe but is a thing to be judged and recieve a title according to the circumstances of it to this he adjoines this is not the Question a simple secessiō of a man or mē upon some just occasion is not called schisme but to make causless differences in a Church and then separating from it as no Church denying communion with it hath the nature and name of schisme in all mens judgments but his own An. What Question doth our Reverend Author meane I feare he is still fancying of the difference between Presbyterians and Independents and squaring all things by that Imagination whether it be a Question stated to his mind or no I cannot tell but it is an assertion expressive of mine owne which he may do well to disprove if he can Who told him that raising causlesse differences in a Church and then separating from it is not in my judgment schisme May I possibly retaine hopes of making my selfe understood by this Reverend Author I suppose though that a pertinacious abiding in a mistake is neither schisme nor heresy And so this may be passed over My second is one Church refusing to hold that communion with another which ought to be between them is not Schisme properly so called The reply hereunto is twofold 1. That one Church may raise differences in and with another church and so cause Schisme 2 That the Independents deny any communion of churches but what is prudentiall and so that communion cannot be broken To the first I have spoken sufficiently before the latter is but an harping on the same string I am not speaking of Independent churches nor upon the principles of Independents much lesse on them which are imposed on them Let the Reverend Author suppose or aver what communion of churches he pleaseth my position holds in reference to it nor can he disprove it however for my part I am not acquaintcd with those Independents who allow no communion of churches but what is prudentiall and yet it is thought that I know as many as this Reverend Author doth Upon the last proposall we are wholly agreed so that I shall not need to repeat it only he gives me a sad farewell at the close of the Chapter which must be taken notice of is saith he not the design of his book to prove if he could and condemne us as no churches let the world be judge and I say let all the saints of God judge and Jesus Christ will judge whither I have not outragious injury done me in this imputation but saith he unless this be proved he can never justify his separatiō Sr. when your our brethren told the Bishops they thanked God they were none of them and defied the Prelaticall church did they make a separation or no were they guilty of Schisme I suppose you will not say so nor do I yet have I done any such thing in reference to you or your churches I have no more separated from you then you have done from me and as for the distance which is between us upon our disagreement about the way of reformation let all the churches of God judge on which side it hath been managed with more breach of love on yours or mine Let me assure you Sir through