their_o suppose_a peaceableness_n which_o he_o rejoice_v in_o though_o he_o can_v not_o obtain_v his_o first_o desire_n sect._n 18._o that_o they_o at_o frankford_n do_v compromise_v the_o matter_n as_o he_o allege_v p._n 13._o i_o do_v not_o find_v fuller_n say_v p._n 30._o that_o calvin_n letter_n strike_v such_o a_o stroke_n especial_o in_o the_o congregation_n at_o frankford_n that_o some_o therein_o who_o former_o partly_o approve_v do_v afterward_o whole_o dislike_v and_o more_o who_o former_o dislike_v do_v now_o detest_v the_o english_a liturgy_n our_o author_n tell_v we_o of_o dr._n cox_n set_v up_o the_o litany_n which_o put_v knox_n in_o a_o rage_n so_o as_o he_o declaim_v against_o the_o english_a church_n as_o far_o as_o his_o wit_n and_o ill-will_a can_v carry_v he_o woe_n to_o the_o world_n if_o such_o partial_a and_o false_a history_n carry_v the_o day_n but_o we_o see_v what_o we_o be_v to_o think_v of_o the_o most_o ancient_a and_o remote_a history_n when_o so_o near_o our_o own_o time_n matter_n of_o fact_n be_v so_o unjust_o represent_v fuller_n uâ—i_fw-la supra_fw-la tell_v we_o that_o dr._n cox_n a_o man_n of_o high_a spirit_n with_o some_o of_o his_o friend_n arrive_v there_o and_o march_z 13._o discompose_v the_o model_n of_o their_o service_n first_o answer_v aloud_o after_o the_o minister_n and_o on_o the_o sunday_n follow_v one_o of_o his_o company_n without_o the_o consent_n and_o knowledge_n of_o the_o congregation_n get_v up_o into_o the_o pulpit_n and_o there_o read_v all_o the_o litany_n and_o cit_v for_o this_o trouble_v of_o frankford_n p._n 38._o whereat_o knox_n high_o offend_v preach_v from_o his_o ordinary_a text_n show_v the_o english_a book_n to_o be_v superstitious_a unpure_a and_o imperfect_a be_v here_o any_o thing_n of_o rage_n or_o what_o do_v not_o become_v sober_a zeal_n for_o god_n and_o his_o ordinance_n which_o be_v interrupt_v in_o their_o peaceable_a administration_n by_o a_o proud-stranger_n intrude_a into_o the_o pulpit_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o minister_n or_o the_o church_n sect._n 19_o we_o be_v tell_v by_o the_o dr._n ibid._n from_o a_o letter_n of_o grindal_n to_o ridley_n that_o the_o church_n at_o frankford_n be_v well_o quiet_v by_o the_o prudence_n of_o mr._n cox_n and_o other_o which_o meet_v there_o for_o that_o purpose_n but_o a_o more_o impartial_a historian_n out_o of_o the_o book_n that_o the_o dr._n pretend_v to_o follow_v though_o he_o be_v no_o nonconformist_a tell_v we_o what_o a_o peaceable_a end_n this_o debate_n come_v to_o even_o such_o a_o end_n as_o a_o bloody_a victory_n use_v to_o bring_v to_o a_o unhappy_a war_n and_o such_o a_o peace_n as_o the_o nonconformist_n in_o england_n at_o this_o day_n have_v under_o prelatist_n of_o the_o same_o temper_n with_o dr._n cox_n and_o such_o as_o the_o poor_a jew_n have_v in_o shushan_n when_o the_o king_n and_o haman_n sit_v down_o to_o eat_v and_o drink_v esth._n 3._o 15._o the_o forecited_n author_n p._n 30_o 31._o tell_v how_o cox_n prevail_v by_o new_a recruit_n out_o of_o england_n and_o knox_n be_v party_n again_o by_o the_o favour_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o french_a minister_n and_o that_o cox_n be_v party_n be_v depress_v embrace_v a_o strange_a way_n to_o raise_v themselves_o and_o accuse_v knox_n to_o the_o state_n of_o treason_n against_o the_o emperor_n and_o that_o in_o eight_o place_n of_o a_o book_n of_o he_o the_o seven_o last_o the_o historian_n say_v may_v be_v well_o omit_v the_o first_o be_v that_o he_o call_v the_o emperor_n no_o less_o a_o enemy_n to_o christ_n than_o be_v nero._n this_o the_o impartial_a historian_n cry_v out_o on_o the_o word_n be_v speak_v some_o year_n before_o in_o england_n by_o one_o that_o own_v no_o natural_a allegiance_n to_o the_o emperor_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v charge_v on_o he_o by_o man_n of_o his_o own_o religion_n in_o exile_n with_o he_o to_o the_o endanger_n of_o his_o life_n and_o of_o this_o he_o say_v allude_v to_o rachel_n word_n with_o great_a rather_o than_o good_a wrestle_a have_v i_o wrestle_v and_o prevail_v so_o be_v mr._n knox_n advise_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o depart_v not_o forbid_v by_o the_o congregation_n as_o the_o dr._n say_v to_o preach_v and_o those_o that_o cleave_v to_o he_o be_v scatter_v here_o be_v episcopal_a peace_n and_o here_o be_v a_o taste_n of_o the_o spirit_n and_o method_n by_o which_o they_o carry_v on_o their_o cause_n but_o further_a the_o sâ—me_a author_n tell_v we_o how_o harsh_o the_o coxioen_n it_o be_v his_o own_o word_n use_v the_o other_o party_n eject_v their_o church-officer_n without_o take_v any_o notice_n of_o they_o or_o ask_v their_o consent_n also_o how_o they_o refuse_v to_o let_v the_o matter_n come_v to_o hear_v or_o arbitration_n by_o which_o he_o say_v cox_n party_n lose_v much_o reputation_n how_o they_o reproach_v the_o other_o as_o schismatic_n when_o they_o have_v make_v the_o shism_n in_o a_o peaceable_a church_n and_o after_o he_o tell_v we_o how_o cox_n party_n break_v among_o themselves_o about_o other_o thing_n often_o than_o once_o and_o that_o to_o a_o scandalous_a height_n which_o may_v be_v see_v at_o length_n in_o the_o author_n if_o this_o be_v convenient_a in_o a_o congregation_n let_v any_o judge_n it_o be_v strange_a that_o the_o dr._n and_o mr._n fuller_n both_o shall_v read_v these_o historical_a passage_n with_o so_o different_a spectacle_n sect._n 20._o the_o dr._n tell_v we_o sect._n 4._o p._n 13_o 14._o that_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o carry_v out_o of_o england_n with_o they_o but_o as_o hooper_n in_o switzerland_n so_o they_o in_o geneva_n and_o elsewhere_o get_v a_o better_a like_v of_o their_o churchway_n than_o of_o we_o that_o be_v such_o as_o the_o country_n will_v bear_v and_o it_o be_v hard_o to_o remove_v prejudicâ—s_n especial_o when_o they_o have_v such_o abetter_n who_o authority_n go_v beyond_o any_o reason_n with_o they_o and_o that_o be_v the_o true_a foundation_n of_o our_o unhappy_a difference_n that_o yet_o continue_v i_o have_v abridge_v his_o word_n but_o give_v the_o full_a sense_n of_o they_o and_o now_o i_o shall_v note_v a_o few_o thing_n on_o this_o discourse_n 1._o he_o will_v not_o allow_v it_o it_o seem_v that_o nonconformist_n of_o old_a or_o late_o have_v ever_o make_v the_o bible_n the_o rule_n of_o their_o worship_a god_n no_o they_o be_v mere_a consuetudinary_a man_n and_o soon_o take_v with_o any_o new_a fashion_n and_o so_o obstinate_a that_o they_o will_v not_o part_v with_o any_o custom_n when_o once_o take_v up_o thus_o he_o be_v please_v to_o picture_n those_o that_o dissent_n from_o he_o we_o expect_v more_o charity_n from_o he_o 2._o if_o nonconformist_n can_v prove_v what_o they_o hold_v by_o scripture_n and_o sound_a reason_n let_v they_o lie_v under_o as_o much_o of_o his_o reproach_n as_o he_o shall_v please_v to_o cast_v upon_o they_o but_o if_o they_o can_v i_o hope_v he_o will_v retract_v this_o rash_a censure_n 3._o if_o custom_n do_v so_o far_o influence_n these_o man_n methinks_v the_o custom_n that_o they_o have_v first_o receive_v in_o their_o native_a country_n shall_v have_v be_v a_o sufficient_a antidote_n against_o all_o foreign_a infection_n to_o the_o contrary_n but_o their_o be_v take_v with_o the_o way_n in_o other_o country_n rather_o show_v that_o their_o former_a way_n be_v build_v on_o custom_n and_o education_n and_o that_o the_o change_n be_v from_o scripture_n light_n that_o they_o have_v meet_v with_o abroad_o which_o they_o can_v not_o resist_v 4._o i_o have_v show_v before_o that_o they_o have_v these_o principle_n before_o they_o go_v abroad_o even_o in_o king_n edward_n 6'_v time_n there_o be_v not_o a_o few_o of_o that_o way_n 5._o it_o be_v strange_a that_o all_o country_n beside_o england_n be_v so_o clownish_a that_o they_o can_v bear_v the_o pomp_n and_o ceremony_n of_o divine_a worship_n here_o use_v how_o then_o do_v popery_n get_v any_o entertainment_n beyond_o sea_n even_o among_o the_o swisser_n which_o religion_n will_v vie_v with_o we_o in_o outward_a splendour_n if_o the_o genius_n of_o a_o nation_n do_v determine_v man_n in_o religion_n as_o the_o dr._n insinuate_v in_o this_o casâ—_n how_o be_v it_o that_o the_o ceremony_n be_v not_o use_v among_o the_o protestant_n in_o france_n which_o be_v the_o pattern_n for_o modishness_n and_o gaiety_n to_o england_n and_o other_o part_n of_o the_o world_n but_o this_o be_v so_o indigested_a a_o notion_n that_o it_o do_v not_o well_o become_v the_o learning_n of_o dr._n still_v fleet_n though_o it_o be_v good_a enough_o for_o some_o to_o rant_v with_o over_o a_o pot_n of_o ale._n 6._o whether_o our_o party_n or_o he_o be_v more_o guilty_a of_o obstinate_a insist_v on_o man_n authority_n in_o defiance_n of_o reason_n let_v
form_n of_o worship_n and_o if_o there_o be_v where_o be_v it_o forbid_v but_o in_o this_o commandment_n or_o let_v he_o give_v we_o any_o reason_n why_o humane_a invention_n relate_v to_o the_o manner_n and_o form_n of_o worship_n be_v not_o forbid_v as_o well_o as_o these_o that_o relate_v to_o the_o way_n of_o it_o a_o reason_n indeed_o he_o pretend_v to_o give_v otherwise_o say_v he_o all_o use_n of_o man_n invention_n as_o to_o preach_v read_v interpret_n scripture_n will_v be_v forbid_v and_o then_o this_o interpretation_n of_o the_o second_o command_n will_v be_v unlawful_a because_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a invention_n of_o man_n as_o much_o as_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n if_o this_o be_v to_o reason_n like_o a_o divine_a or_o to_o quibble_n like_o a_o sophister_n let_v the_o reader_n judge_n for_o the_o invention_n that_o man_n make_v use_v of_o in_o preach_v etc._n etc._n be_v the_o act_n or_o exercise_v of_o their_o faculty_n whereby_o they_o find_v out_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n the_o invention_n in_o god_n worship_n that_o we_o â—ow_o debate_v about_o be_v object_n find_v out_o by_o man_n not_o command_v by_o god._n if_o man_n devise_v unrevealed_a object_n in_o read_v preach_a etc._n etc._n we_o condemn_v they_o in_o that_o as_o well_o as_o in_o devise_v way_n of_o worship_v god_n and_o if_o the_o dr._n mean_v that_o this_o exposition_n of_o the_o second_o commandment_n be_v a_o invention_n of_o man_n that_o be_v the_o exercise_n of_o his_o inventive_a faculty_n whereby_o he_o find_v out_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n he_o speak_v wide_a from_o the_o purpose_n when_o he_o compare_v that_o with_o thing_n that_o man_n devise_v to_o worship_n god_n by_o if_o he_o mean_v that_o the_o interpretation_n be_v only_o devise_v not_o warrant_v let_v he_o prove_v that_o and_o we_o shall_v reject_v it_o sect._n 12._o i_o hope_v by_o this_o time_n the_o impartial_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o we_o stretch_v and_o force_v scripture_n to_o condemn_v liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n as_o the_o dr._n say_v or_o he_o do_v so_o to_o defend_v they_o that_o he_o impute_v to_o we_o blind_a and_o fetter_n our_o mind_n by_o education_n and_o read_v but_o one_o sort_n of_o book_n and_o take_v thing_n for_o grant_v which_o we_o ought_v not_o we_o resolve_v to_o bear_v patient_o and_o must_v accept_v of_o these_o instead_o of_o better_a argument_n to_o refute_v our_o principle_n his_o instance_n of_o the_o denier_n of_o infant-baptism_n prove_v full_o that_o the_o schism_n do_v not_o always_o lie_v on_o the_o imposer_n side_n though_o they_o separate_v from_o we_o because_o of_o our_o use_v it_o without_o consider_v impose_v it_o on_o they_o who_o of_o they_o have_v be_v excommunicate_v for_o not_o use_v it_o as_o we_o be_v for_o forbear_v the_o ceremony_n if_o man_n will_v separate_v because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v impose_v on_o they_o let_v they_o answer_v it_o we_o scruple_n only_o the_o ordinance_n of_o man_n neither_o do_v we_o ever_o say_v that_o the_o blame_n of_o separation_n do_v in_o all_o câ—ses_n lie_v on_o the_o imposer_n and_o we_o confess_v that_o where_o impose_v term_n of_o communion_n be_v scruple_v through_o mistake_n they_o that_o separate_v on_o that_o scruple_n do_v sin_n and_o we_o yield_v also_o to_o he_o that_o not_o the_o pretence_n of_o conscience_n but_o sufficient_a proof_n of_o the_o unlawfulness_n of_o the_o term_n of_o communion_n be_v a_o good_a ground_n of_o separation_n and_o we_o still_o desire_v that_o the_o matter_n may_v be_v put_v to_o that_o issue_n sect._n 13._o he_o proceed_v next_o to_o set_v â—orth_o the_o principle_n of_o they_o who_o hold_v all_o act_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n unlawful_a of_o they_o he_o have_v little_a to_o say_v their_o mind_n as_o he_o say_v be_v easy_o discover_v and_o we_o be_v not_o concern_v in_o that_o opinion_n and_o therefore_o shall_v not_o insist_v on_o it_o only_o i_o see_v not_o on_o what_o ground_n the_o dr._n name_v the_o author_n of_o the_o book_n call_v jerubbaal_n as_o one_o that_o be_v against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o hear_v the_o conform_v minister_n preach_v for_o that_o author_n 〈◊〉_d p._n 12._o of_o himself_o and_o other_o who_o mr._n c._n have_v charge_v with_o schism_n because_o they_o can_v not_o communicate_v with_o she_o in_o the_o liturgy_n that_o they_o join_v with_o she_o in_o the_o institute_v worship_n and_o substantial_a ordinance_n of_o christ_n as_o prayer_n hear_v of_o the_o word_n preach_v sing_v of_o psalm_n etc._n etc._n sect_n iv._o the_o dr_n state_v of_o the_o question_n examine_v and_o the_o question_n true_o state_v the_o several_a principle_n of_o the_o dissenter_n have_v be_v examinedâ—_n the_o dr._n now_o proceed_v to_o state_n the_o question_n about_o separation_n some_o think_v this_o shall_v have_v be_v do_v before_o examine_v of_o the_o principle_n on_o which_o man_n separate_v but_o the_o dr._n must_v use_v his_o own_o method_n and_o we_o must_v follow_v he_o in_o examine_v what_o he_o say_v he_o give_v we_o sect._n 15._o his_o concession_n which_o i_o shall_v say_v little_a of_o save_v to_o make_v a_o remark_n on_o one_o or_o two_o of_o they_o and_o 1._o his_o three_o concession_n be_v he_o can_v allow_v different_z mode_n of_o worship_n in_o cathedral_n and_o parochial_a church_n in_o public_a and_o private_a administration_n these_o be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n in_o who_o communion_n we_o live_v but_o what_o be_v this_o say_v he_o to_o the_o deny_v of_o constant_a communion_n with_o our_o church_n to_o the_o choose_n of_o new_a pastor_n it_o be_v true_a these_o be_v two_o different_a thing_n the_o difference_n be_v the_o one_o be_v allow_v by_o the_o church_n the_o other_o not_o so_o but_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o themselves_o and_o abstract_v from_o the_o church_n pleasure_n and_o there_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v as_o little_a uniformity_n between_o cathedral_n and_o parochial_a worship_n as_o between_o their_o parochial_a worship_n and_o that_o use_v in_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o dissenter_n now_o we_o glad_o will_v know_v of_o the_o dr._n or_o any_o of_o his_o party_n see_v the_o church_n can_v yield_v so_o far_o to_o parochial_a assembly_n as_o not_o to_o tie_v they_o to_o the_o same_o mode_n with_o cathedral_n assembly_n because_o they_o can_v go_v to_o the_o expense_n of_o it_o and_o see_v the_o church_n dispense_v with_o cross_v in_o prâ—vate_a baptism_n why_o may_v she_o not_o condescend_v so_o far_o to_o the_o dissenter_n who_o can_v for_o their_o conscience_n use_v these_o thing_n and_o so_o shun_v this_o breach_n in_o the_o church_n this_o deny_v of_o communion_n with_o their_o church_n and_o choose_v of_o new_a pastor_n be_v the_o conscience_n of_o man_n so_o little_a to_o be_v regard_v or_o be_v it_o fit_v the_o church_n shall_v be_v so_o imperious_a over_o her_o member_n as_o that_o she_o will_v indulge_v man_n purse_n but_o not_o their_o conscience_n she_o will_v dispense_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n for_o her_o pleasure_n but_o not_o for_o people_n conscience_n when_o they_o can_v show_v good_a reason_n for_o what_o they_o think_v and_o make_v conscience_n of_o this_o be_v whole_o unaccountable_a and_o very_o inconsistent_a with_o those_o high_a pretension_n that_o our_o brethren_n make_v of_o regard_n to_o peace_n and_o unity_n sect._n 2._o another_o remark_n i_o make_v of_o his_o four_o concession_n that_o the_o church_n allow_v a_o different_a mode_n of_o worship_n to_o foreign_a church_n set_v up_o in_o england_n because_o they_o break_v not_o off_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o they_o do_v who_o be_v baptise_a in_o it_o but_o why_o may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v as_o kind_a to_o her_o own_o member_n as_o to_o stranger_n if_o the_o ceremony_n be_v necessary_a why_o shall_v the_o neglect_n of_o they_o be_v permit_v to_o any_o if_o unnecessary_a why_o shall_v they_o be_v force_v on_o man_n conscience_n to_o the_o rend_v of_o the_o church_n the_o break_v off_o of_o communion_n that_o he_o talk_v of_o may_v be_v prevent_v by_o this_o condescendency_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v most_o unreasonable_a to_o charge_v we_o with_o that_o as_o a_o sin_n which_o we_o be_v under_o a_o necessity_n to_o do_v for_o shun_v the_o wound_n of_o our_o conscience_n and_o sin_v against_o god_n and_o which_o they_o may_v as_o easy_o prevent_v by_o show_v we_o that_o favour_n that_o they_o show_v to_o other_o i_o take_v notice_n also_o of_o his_o 6_o concession_n that_o it_o be_v no_o sinful_a separation_n to_o keep_v up_o the_o exercise_n of_o true_a religion_n under_o arian_n against_o the_o will_n of_o the_o magistrate_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o case_n where_o true_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v it_o be_v very_o much_o to_o our_o case_n for_o
that_o be_v a_o time_n of_o reformatio_fw-la status_fw-la convalescentiae_fw-la we_o be_v rather_o status_fw-la decidentiae_fw-la a_o time_n of_o increase_v rather_o than_o of_o diminish_v the_o number_n of_o superstition_n and_o come_v near_o the_o popish_a modes_n rather_o than_o go_v further_o from_o they_o instance_n of_o this_o be_v not_o a_o few_o take_v for_o a_o taste_n the_o allow_v of_o play_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n the_o zealous_a promote_a of_o the_o book_n of_o sport_n by_o that_o party_n be_v not_o yet_o forget_v whereas_o that_o day_n be_v art._n 24._o of_o king_n edw._n the_o 6_n injunction_n before_o mention_v appoint_v to_o be_v give_v whole_o to_o god_n in_o hear_v the_o word_n of_o god_n read_v and_o teach_v in_o private_a and_o public_a prayter_n etc._n etc._n a_o further_a conviction_n in_o this_o matter_n may_v be_v abundant_o have_v from_o a_o book_n entitle_v the_o advances_n of_o england_n towards_o popery_n which_o book_n though_o our_o reverend_a author_n labour_v to_o disparage_v p._n 35._o of_o his_o preface_n yet_o agree_v so_o well_o with_o what_o man_n see_v with_o their_o eye_n that_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v slight_v for_o though_o some_o be_v mention_v and_o blame_v in_o that_o book_n that_o appear_v most_o zealous_a against_o popery_n yet_o it_o be_v no_o rarity_n for_o word_n and_o deed_n to_o clash_v quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audio_fw-la cum_fw-la facta_fw-la videam_fw-la and_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o author_n before_o his_o death_n be_v sensible_a of_o the_o injury_n he_o have_v do_v to_o some_o yet_o his_o evidence_n that_o he_o bring_v will_v still_o be_v compare_v with_o what_o every_o one_o see_v to_o be_v the_o tendency_n of_o some_o man_n way_n i_o may_v here_o allege_v the_o obligation_n of_o the_o national_a covenant_n that_o we_o be_v under_o as_o they_o be_v not_o to_o who_o the_o dr._n will_v make_v our_o case_n parallel_n though_o i_o never_o think_v that_o that_o bond_n make_v any_o new_a duty_n or_o sin_n that_o be_v not_o such_o antecedent_o yet_o the_o oath_n of_o god_n make_v the_o tie_n that_o we_o be_v under_o to_o duty_n and_o against_o sin_n more_o weighty_a and_o aggravate_v the_o sin_n of_o do_v what_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o but_o of_o this_o afterward_o i_o conclude_v then_o that_o the_o present_a reason_n of_o separation_n will_v not_o have_v hold_v from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n quod_fw-la erat_fw-la probandum_fw-la sect._n 5._o the_o learned_a dr._n p._n 2._o after_o explain_v the_o term_n of_o his_o assertion_n which_o we_o have_v deny_v prove_v the_o identity_n of_o reason_n in_o their_o case_n and_o we_o by_o the_o ceremony_n liturgy_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o same_o let_v all_o this_o be_v admit_v as_o they_o be_v dissatisfy_v with_o these_o then_o so_o be_v we_o now_o but_o we_o join_v not_o in_o these_o practice_n as_o they_o do_v and_o worship_n god_n without_o they_o as_o they_o do_v not_o because_o our_o case_n do_v not_o make_v these_o thing_n appear_v so_o needful_a as_o they_o do_v because_o we_o have_v no_o hope_n of_o reformation_n as_o they_o have_v beside_o our_o be_v under_o a_o additional_a tie_n against_o such_o superstition_n which_o they_o be_v not_o under_o not_o content_a with_o this_o the_o dr._n think_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v more_o oblige_v to_o join_v in_o the_o church_n worship_n than_o those_o at_o the_o reformation_n 1._o because_o of_o the_o number_n diligence_n and_o learn_v of_o our_o allow_a preacher_n 2._o because_o the_o ceremony_n be_v retrench_v 3._o because_o of_o the_o mischief_n that_o we_o have_v see_v of_o separation_n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v as_o what_o we_o complain_v of_o in_o the_o present_a ministry_n be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o our_o with_o draw_v though_o it_o be_v a_o sad_a grievance_n and_o tend_v to_o make_v the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v abhor_v in_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o people_n as_o the_o way_n of_o eli_n son_n do_v 1_o sam._n 2._o 17._o so_o neither_o can_v their_o commendation_n by_o he_o give_v be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o our_o join_n in_o corrupt_a ordinance_n i_o confess_v the_o number_n of_o the_o present_a minister_n be_v great_a than_o in_o those_o day_n the_o generality_n of_o the_o clergy_n continue_v popish_a and_o i_o be_o far_o from_o derogate_a from_o some_o among_o they_o who_o be_v learned_a and_o diligent_a and_o â—_o add_v pious_a man_n and_o sound_a protestant_n but_o as_o for_o the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o the_o parish_n minister_n that_o the_o people_n be_v most_o edify_v by_o or_o disappoint_v of_o their_o edification_n they_o be_v either_o stranger_n to_o england_n or_o strange_o bias_v who_o see_v not_o cause_n to_o complain_v of_o their_o ignorance_n idleness_n and_o vicious_a conversation_n if_o not_o of_o all_o these_o three_o to_o the_o second_o i_o know_v not_o what_o retrenchment_n have_v be_v make_v of_o ceremony_n since_o the_o begin_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n reign_n but_o i_o know_v addition_n have_v be_v make_v if_o not_o as_o to_o impose_v yet_o as_o to_o use_v and_o some_o addition_n to_o the_o holiday_n have_v be_v impose_v but_o if_o they_o be_v few_o than_o they_o be_v they_o be_v enough_o to_o corrupt_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o furnish_v as_o strong_a a_o argument_n to_o forbear_v such_o corrupt_a worship_n as_o if_o they_o be_v more_o numerous_a a_o grain_n of_o arsenic_n may_v just_o make_v one_o forbear_v a_o dish_n in_o which_o it_o be_v as_o well_o as_o if_o there_o be_v two_o or_o three_o in_o it_o to_o the_o three_o as_o he_o have_v see_v mischief_n of_o separation_n and_o we_o do_v not_o extenuate_v they_o so_o have_v we_o of_o imposition_n yea_o all_o the_o mischief_n of_o that_o kind_n be_v just_o imputable_a to_o these_o imposition_n they_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o separation_n and_o causa_fw-la causae_fw-la est_fw-la causa_fw-la causati_fw-la our_o ancestor_n have_v hope_n of_o freedom_n from_o that_o yoke_n as_o have_v be_v say_v which_o we_o have_v not_o therefore_o no_o inconvenience_n that_o be_v not_o our_o sin_n can_v warrant_v we_o to_o join_v with_o and_o in_o the_o depravation_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o be_v our_o sin_n as_o neither_o can_v such_o inconvenience_n excuse_v we_o to_o live_v without_o ordinance_n always_o as_o the_o former_a nonconformists_a may_v do_v for_o a_o time_n sect._n 6._o in_o his_o 2._o section_n he_o come_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o assertion_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o separation_n practise_v or_o allow_v by_o those_o who_o be_v most_o zealous_a for_o the_o reformation_n he_o confess_v there_o be_v different_a apprehension_n about_o some_o few_o thing_n but_o deny_v that_o they_o be_v the_o thing_n now_o scruple_v at_o and_o that_o any_o separation_n be_v make_v because_o of_o they_o i_o shall_v not_o much_o dispute_n either_o of_o these_o because_o the_o cause_n that_o i_o defend_v be_v not_o much_o concern_v in_o they_o but_o stand_v on_o a_o better_a foundation_n than_o the_o opinion_n or_o practice_n of_o man_n and_o because_o our_o case_n and_o reason_n differ_v from_o they_o as_o have_v be_v show_v yet_o shall_v i_o a_o little_a examine_v what_o he_o allege_v under_o both_o these_o head_n for_o the_o former_a of_o they_o he_o prove_v it_o only_o from_o mr._n roger_n scruple_v only_o the_o square_a cap_n and_o tippet_n and_o b._n hooper_n scruple_v only_o the_o episcopal_a hâ—bit_n to_o which_o afterward_o he_o submit_v and_o bucer_n and_o other_o scruple_v the_o liturgy_n till_o it_o be_v reform_v but_o none_o after_o that_o scruple_v any_o of_o the_o thing_n now_o in_o controversy_n here_o be_v fallacious_a if_o not_o false_a history_n for_o with_o rogers_n and_o hooper_n call_v ringleader_n of_o the_o party_n by_o one_o who_o be_v no_o friend_n to_o they_o be_v reckon_v other_o who_o have_v stead_n beyond_o sea_n and_o suck_v in_o both_o the_o air_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o place_n where_o they_o live_v and_o renounce_v all_o ceremony_n practise_v by_o papist_n conceive_v that_o such_o ought_v not_o only_o to_o be_v clip_v with_o the_o shears_n but_o to_o be_v shave_v with_o the_o razor_n yea_o all_o the_o stum_n thereof_o to_o be_v pluck_v out_o fuller_n ch._n hist._n lib._n 7._o pa._n 402._o these_o fugitives_n if_o it_o be_v not_o too_o bad_a a_o name_n for_o they_o i_o understand_v of_o hen._n 8's_o reign_v of_o who_o fox_n act._n and_o mon._n book_n 3._o p._n 145._o in_o the_o history_n of_o hooper_n one_o of_o they_o they_o be_v also_o join_v with_o they_o by_o fuller_n be_v all_o this_o no_o more_o than_o two_o man_n scruple_v only_o some_o habit_n or_o be_v not_o here_o rather_o a_o considerable_a number_n exact_o of_o our_o opinion_n
will_v the_o dr._n reconcile_v this_o with_o what_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o the_o rubric_n will_v private_a deal_n with_o the_o offender_n amount_v to_o repel_v of_o he_o from_o the_o communion_n 2._o discipline_n be_v a_o public_a and_o authoritative_a act_n and_o another_o thing_n then_o private_a deal_n with_o a_o person_n the_o apostle_n call_v it_o a_o rebuke_v before_o all_o 1_o tim._n 5._o 20._o and_o it_o differ_v from_o preach_v in_o that_o by_o discipline_n reproof_n be_v apply_v to_o the_o person_n in_o preach_v they_o be_v in_o more_o general_a term_n now_o how_o this_o shall_v be_v without_o public_a name_a the_o man_n i_o know_v not_o 3._o who_o doubt_v that_o augustine_n do_v well_o in_o what_o the_o dr._n allege_v it_o must_v be_v our_o practice_n when_o discipline_n be_v most_o strict_o exercise_v because_o discipline_n can_v reach_v the_o secret_a sin_n of_o man_n but_o augustine_n never_o think_v that_o therefore_o discipline_n be_v not_o to_o be_v public_o and_o personal_o inflict_v on_o offender_n and_o sure_a discipline_n may_v in_o some_o case_n be_v forbear_v hic_fw-la &_o num_fw-la without_o fault_n aâ—d_v where_o it_o be_v faulty_o forbear_v it_o do_v nullify_v the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n yet_o it_o must_v not_o always_o be_v forbear_v his_o 2._o answer_n be_v if_o a_o restraint_n be_v lay_v on_o minister_n by_o law_n whether_o the_o minister_n ought_v to_o admonish_v public_o and_o debar_v in_o that_o case_n reply_v why_o do_v the_o dr._n make_v the_o rubric_n and_o the_o law_n thus_o to_o clash_v especial_o see_v the_o common_a prayer_n and_o its_o rubric_n be_v settle_v by_o law_n and_o he_o do_v by_o this_o fair_o yield_v that_o by_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o establish_v by_o law_n a_o parish_n minister_n have_v no_o power_n to_o keep_v back_o any_o from_o the_o lord_n table_n that_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o come_v why_o then_o have_v he_o take_v so_o much_o pain_n to_o prove_v they_o can_v do_v something_o and_o at_o last_o conclude_v that_o this_o same_o thing_n be_v just_a nothing_o partur_fw-la montes_fw-la sect._n 17._o he_o frame_v a_o objection_n to_o himself_o sect._n 16._o that_o the_o neglect_v and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n among_o we_o be_v too_o great_a to_o be_v justify_v and_o too_o notorious_a to_o be_v conceal_v to_o this_o he_o have_v several_a answer_n the_o 1._o be_v that_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o this_o destroy_v the_o be_v of_o parochial_a church_n this_o i_o pass_v for_o i_o think_v it_o do_v not_o the_o 2._o be_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o complain_v of_o this_o or_o separate_v then_o find_v out_o a_o way_n to_o remedy_v it_o we_o propose_v the_o scripture_n remedy_n to_o wit_n to_o put_v it_o into_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n in_o common_a the_o 3._o be_v that_o therâ—_n be_v not_o that_o necessity_n of_o church_n discipline_n as_o in_o the_o primitive_a time_n the_o christian_a magistrate_n take_v care_n to_o punish_v scandalous_a offender_n and_o so_o to_o vindicate_v the_o honour_n of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o confirm_v this_o he_o cit_v a_o passage_n of_o king_n charles_n the_o first_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n thus_o the_o drs._n zeal_n for_o episcopacy_n be_v swallow_v up_o in_o the_o gulf_n of_o erastianism_n to_o what_o purpose_n do_v he_o cite_v cyprian_n tuâ—es_n petrus_a and_o why_o have_v he_o plead_v so_o much_o for_o episcopacy_n even_o out_o of_o these_o father_n that_o live_v under_o christian_a emperor_n as_o augustine_n theodoret_n etc._n etc._n if_o church_n discipline_n be_v at_o the_o magistrate_n disposal_n but_o i_o see_v man_n will_v say_v any_o thing_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d let_v the_o dr._n answer_v what_o our_o divine_n have_v write_v against_o erastus_n and_o his_o follower_n prove_v that_o the_o church_n and_o republic_n be_v distinct_a society_n though_o make_v up_o of_o the_o same_o person_n that_o christ_n have_v a_o visible_a mediatory_a kingdom_n in_o the_o world_n that_o the_o rule_n law_n punishment_n and_o immediate_a end_n of_o church-state_n be_v different_a let_v he_o no_o more_o tell_v we_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n of_o england_n as_o that_o which_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v dispense_v and_o order_v by_o i_o shall_v not_o digress_v to_o refute_v this_o assertion_n but_o man_n will_v be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o this_o principle_n do_v foul_o reflect_v upon_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n who_o give_v all_o their_o direction_n about_o church_n affair_n to_o churchman_n and_o not_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sict_v 18._o his_o four_o answer_n be_v that_o excommunication_n by_o protestant_a divine_n be_v not_o leave_v to_o a_o parochial_a church_n i_o do_v not_o plead_v for_o that_o but_o against_o put_v it_o into_o the_o hand_n of_o one_o man._n neither_o will_v it_o hence_o follow_v a_o parish_n minister_n and_o his_o elder_n may_v exercise_v no_o discipline_n the_o protestant_a divine_v abroad_o be_v not_o of_o that_o miâ—d_n it_o be_v false_a that_o among_o we_o a_o minister_n i_o mean_v with_o his_o elder_n can_v only_o admonish_v not_o repel_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n why_o say_v he_o may_v not_o our_o minister_n be_v oblige_v to_o certify_v â—he_v bishop_n as_o well_o as_o they_o to_o certify_v the_o presbytery_n ans._n because_o christ_n give_v no_o power_n to_o a_o bishop_n above_o other_o presbyter_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o apostolic_a and_o primitive_a church_n be_v exercise_v by_o a_o single_a person_n if_o the_o dr_n principle_n be_v true_a i_o think_v it_o be_v fit_a to_o certify_v the_o justice_n of_o peace_n than_o either_o of_o both_o what_o he_o say_v of_o the_o african_a church_n be_v answer_v above_o let_v he_o prove_v that_o a_o bishop_n by_o himself_o exercise_v discipline_n in_o they_o the_o bishop_n be_v often_o name_v as_o the_o speaker_n in_o the_o presbytery_n by_o the_o decline_a of_o he_o be_v mean_v decline_v of_o they_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o he_o allege_v by_o put_v excommunication_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n we_o shun_v by_o a_o prudent_a reserve_n of_o that_o dreadful_a ordinance_n to_o a_o meeting_n of_o pastor_n but_o if_o it_o be_v do_v by_o the_o mean_a congregational_a elder-ship_n it_o can_v hardly_o be_v so_o ill_o manage_v and_o make_v so_o ridiculous_a and_o contemptible_a as_o it_o be_v now_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o bishop_n or_o rather_o their_o servant_n in_o england_n it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o solemn_a and_o terrible_a it_o be_v as_o practise_v which_o be_v seldom_o in_o presbyterian_a church_n and_o how_o it_o have_v tame_v some_o stouthearted_a sinner_n without_o a_o capias_fw-la or_o magistratical_a power_n to_o back_o it_o i_o wonder_v why_o the_o dr._n shall_v use_v such_o argument_n as_o he_o do_v against_o parochial_a discipline_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o certain_a rule_n to_o proceed_v by_o no_o determination_n what_o fault_n deserve_v excommunication_n no_o method_n of_o trial_n no_o security_n against_o false_a witness_n no_o limitation_n of_o cause_n no_o liberty_n of_o appeal_n beside_o multitude_n of_o other_o inconvenience_n sure_o this_o author_n think_v the_o bible_n of_o little_a use_n to_o the_o church_n without_o a_o book_n of_o canon_n such_o reflection_n on_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v very_o unbecoming_a a_o part_n of_o which_o be_v write_v on_o purpose_n to_o teach_v minister_n how_o to_o behave_v themselves_o in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n 1_o tim._n 3._o 15._o i_o hope_v the_o dr_n more_o sober_a thought_n will_v satisfy_v he_o in_o all_o these_o and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v give_v no_o more_o particular_a answer_n but_o he_o may_v have_v consider_v if_o the_o bishop_n have_v direction_n for_o all_o these_o in_o the_o bible_n and_o if_o he_o have_v not_o his_o will_n must_v be_v his_o law_n why_o may_v not_o the_o classical_a and_o congregational_a presbytery_n respective_a take_v the_o help_n of_o they_o he_o think_v a_o parochial_a court_n of_o judicature_n so_o he_o be_v please_v to_o speak_v in_o the_o episcopal_a style_n will_v prove_v more_o tyrannical_a than_o any_o bishop_n court._n it_o may_v be_v so_o if_o manage_v by_o bad_a man_n but_o if_o they_o keep_v within_o the_o rule_n they_o profess_v to_o go_v by_o it_o will_v seem_v tyrannical_a to_o none_o but_o stubborn_a sinner_n who_o gall_a neck_n can_v bear_v christ_n yoke_n and_o it_o can_v never_o be_v so_o grievous_a to_o man_n person_n and_o estate_n as_o the_o bishop_n court_n for_o these_o we_o meddle_v not_o with_o his_o five_o answer_n i_o say_v nothing_o against_o sect._n 19_o he_o have_v yet_o a_o further_a apology_n for_o the_o want_n of_o parochial_a discipline_n even_o suppose_v every_o one_o leave_v to_o their_o own_o conscience_n as_o to_o their_o
minister_n who_o he_o taunt_v as_o high_a pretender_n to_o and_o self-applauders_a in_o wisdom_n and_o self-denial_n will_v in_o so_o critical_a a_o time_n have_v join_v with_o they_o against_o the_o common_a enemy_n or_o let_v they_o know_v their_o sense_n of_o the_o present_a state_n of_o thing_n except_o in_o their_o ceremony_n the_o nonconformist_n be_v never_o backward_o to_o join_v with_o they_o and_o much_o less_o at_o that_o time_n for_o let_v the_o churchman_n know_v their_o sense_n of_o thing_n i_o know_v not_o what_o occasion_n they_o have_v for_o that_o except_o in_o their_o sermon_n in_o which_o they_o be_v asplain_v and_o faithful_a against_o popery_n as_o their_o brethren_n be_v he_o next_o fall_v heavy_o on_o the_o plea_n for_o peace_n and_o true_a and_o only_a way_n of_o concord_n as_o most_o unseasonable_a and_o divisive_n piece_n the_o author_n of_o these_o book_n be_v of_o age_n and_o ability_n to_o answer_v for_o himself_o and_o yet_o live_v and_o write_v i_o need_v say_v nothing_o for_o he_o only_o this_o i_o make_v bold_a to_o say_v abate_v the_o vehemency_n of_o the_o stile_n and_o forwardness_n of_o that_o learned_a man_n genius_n which_o sometime_o run_v into_o overlash_n that_o another_o can_v so_o well_o defend_v as_o himself_o for_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o book_n let_v the_o dr._n try_v it_o when_o he_o will_v he_o may_v possible_o find_v it_o a_o hard-enough_a task_n to_o deal_v with_o they_o what_o that_o author_n say_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a party_n which_o the_o dr._n take_v advantage_n from_o p._n 37._o do_v not_o oblige_v the_o party_n further_o than_o they_o see_v cause_n to_o own_o it_o sect._n 28._o the_o reverend_a dr._n do_v begin_v p._n 39_o to_o give_v account_n of_o the_o occasion_n and_o design_n of_o his_o sermon_n which_o be_v answer_v by_o several_a hand_n and_o in_o defence_n of_o which_o this_o book_n now_o under_o our_o consideration_n be_v write_v i_o shall_v concern_v myself_o little_a about_o it_o be_v ready_a to_o give_v all_o possible_a charity_n to_o the_o design_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o person_n in_o undertake_v and_o manage_v that_o affair_n i_o shall_v consider_v what_o be_v say_v on_o this_o occasion_n no_o further_o than_o shall_v be_v needful_a to_o the_o defence_n i_o now_o manage_v of_o our_o present_a way_n it_o be_v most_o injurious_a that_o he_o assert_v that_o by_o such_o book_n as_o he_o have_v mention_v the_o zeal_n of_o many_o be_v turn_v off_o from_o the_o papist_n against_o those_o of_o the_o church_n be_v there_o any_o thing_n in_o these_o book_n that_o favour_v papist_n or_o any_o thing_n that_o make_v the_o church_n of_o england_n worse_a than_o that_o of_o rome_n if_o withdraw_v from_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n be_v defend_v this_o have_v no_o tendency_n to_o lessen_v zeal_n against_o papist_n he_o that_o complain_v of_o hard_a usage_n though_o without_o cause_n shall_v not_o so_o retaliate_v as_o to_o call_v his_o brethren_n who_o differ_v from_o he_o and_o give_v reason_n for_o their_o so_o do_v a_o enrage_a but_o unprovoke_v company_n of_o men._n this_o and_o much_o of_o that_o nature_n we_o resolve_v patient_o to_o bear_v he_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o deny_v what_o he_o impute_v to_o our_o way_n p._n 40._o that_o it_o be_v a_o great_a dangerous_a and_o unaccountable_a separation_n if_o his_o argument_n against_o it_o prove_v as_o hard_o as_o his_o word_n it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o stand_v before_o he_o if_o this_o be_v to_o touch_v we_o with_o a_o soft_a and_o gentle_a hand_n as_o ibidem_fw-la what_o will_v his_o severity_n prove_v sure_o he_o have_v forget_v himself_o when_o with_o the_o same_o breath_n he_o call_v we_o peevish_a and_o partial_a man_n and_o say_v he_o resolve_v to_o give_v we_o no_o just_a provocation_n by_o reproachful_a language_n or_o personal_a reflection_n sect._n 29._o the_o unseasonableness_n of_o this_o makebate_n sermon_n be_v object_v which_o he_o attempt_v to_o disprove_v with_o a_o flood_n of_o word_n all_o build_v on_o this_o foundation_n that_o the_o church_n be_v revile_v run_v down_o by_o a_o popular_a fury_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v the_o usual_a respect_n the_o learned_a dr._n be_v please_v to_o treat_v his_o antagonist_n with_o other_o man_n think_v that_o a_o modest_a dissent_n and_o withhold_a communion_n in_o unlawful_a thing_n back_v with_o solid_a reason_n give_v for_o so_o do_v be_v all_o that_o the_o nonconformist_n be_v guilty_a of_o and_o that_o that_o need_v not_o give_v such_o a_o alarm_n as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v a_o design_n to_o ruin_v the_o church_n as_o he_o fansi_v and_o unbiased_a man_n will_v think_v that_o such_o a_o sermon_n on_o purpose_n choose_v to_o be_v preach_v before_o the_o magistrate_n rather_o than_o before_o his_o ordinary_a hearer_n do_v not_o savour_n so_o much_o of_o a_o design_n to_o guard_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o people_n against_o nonconformity_n as_o of_o some_o other_o design_n what_o that_o be_v may_v be_v easy_o guess_v at_o for_o all_o that_o be_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n i_o speak_v now_o of_o the_o tendency_n of_o the_o thing_n rather_o than_o of_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o person_n but_o i_o rather_o choose_v to_o wave_v this_o matter_n than_o contend_v about_o it_o be_v more_o concern_v about_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o be_v say_v than_o the_o season_n of_o say_v it_o i_o shall_v be_v as_o little_o concern_v about_o the_o sharpness_n and_o severity_n of_o his_o sermon_n which_o be_v the_o other_o objection_n that_o he_o answer_v from_o p._n 44._o though_o i_o be_o sure_a what_o i_o have_v already_o note_v in_o this_o preface_n show_v that_o such_o a_o way_n of_o treat_v dissenter_n be_v not_o ab_fw-la hoc_fw-la homine_fw-la alienum_fw-la but_o i_o must_v do_v he_o that_o right_a as_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o there_o be_v more_o mildness_n express_v in_o the_o sermon_n than_o here_o he_o be_v gall_v by_o the_o pungent_a reason_n of_o his_o answerer_n yet_o there_o want_v not_o some_o vinegar_n in_o the_o ink_n that_o the_o sermon_n be_v write_v with_o but_o i_o confess_v that_o be_v so_o common_a a_o fault_n among_o imperfect_a man_n that_o we_o must_v say_v veneam_fw-la damus_fw-la petimusque_fw-la vicissim_fw-la for_o my_o part_n i_o study_v to_o shun_v it_o but_o if_o i_o be_v overtake_v in_o this_o fault_n i_o be_o willing_a to_o be_v admonish_v and_o correct_v we_o think_v schism_n as_o great_a a_o sin_n as_o the_o dr._n do_v and_o see_v he_o think_v the_o blame_n of_o it_o be_v on_o our_o part_n i_o judge_v it_o but_o consequent_a to_o that_o opinion_n that_o he_o expose_v it_o and_o we_o by_o reason_n of_o it_o with_o all_o its_o aggravation_n and_o if_o we_o can_v clear_v ourselves_o in_o this_o matter_n let_v we_o lie_v under_o as_o much_o blame_n as_o he_o can_v load_v we_o with_o but_o withal_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v remember_v that_o if_o the_o schism_n be_v cause_v by_o the_o fault_n of_o his_o party_n all_o the_o sad_a import_v of_o his_o excellent_a discourse_n will_v return_v on_o his_o own_o head_n and_o those_o of_o his_o way_n wherefore_o i_o wish_v all_o this_o have_v be_v wave_v and_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o cause_n only_o mind_v sect._n 30._o the_o expression_n that_o his_o adversary_n be_v so_o offend_v with_o to_o wit_n that_o he_o say_v p._n 49._o the_o most_o godly_a people_n among_o they_o can_v least_o endure_v to_o be_v tell_v of_o their_o fault_n be_v as_o i_o think_v not_o sufficient_o vindicate_v by_o say_v that_o he_o mean_v it_o of_o they_o who_o will_v not_o hear_v their_o own_o teacher_n tell_v they_o of_o the_o sin_n of_o separation_n as_o mr._n b._n allege_v for_o they_o that_o be_v so_o unteachable_a be_v not_o the_o most_o godly_a of_o the_o nonconformist_n i_o hope_v there_o be_v among_o they_o who_o can_v hear_v sin_n of_o whatever_o sort_n charge_v on_o they_o and_o sober_o consider_v what_o be_v say_v and_o if_o on_o enquiry_n they_o be_v convince_v of_o a_o fault_n will_v humble_v themselves_o and_o confess_v if_o not_o will_v sober_o clear_v their_o innocency_n by_o reason_n far_o less_o be_v it_o a_o fit_a vindication_n of_o this_o assertion_n to_o apply_v what_o he_o have_v say_v to_o dr._n o._n mr._n b._n mr._n a._n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o answerer_n of_o his_o sermon_n i_o hope_v he_o do_v not_o think_v that_o defence_n of_o truth_n or_o of_o that_o which_o one_o be_v convince_v to_o be_v such_o be_v always_o the_o sin_n of_o not_o endure_v to_o be_v tell_v of_o fault_n neither_o do_v i_o by_o so_o say_v refer_v the_o determine_n of_o our_o debate_n to_o man_n fancy_n which_o he_o hint_v p._n 47._o that_o we_o call_v the_o dictate_v of_o conscience_n i_o be_o sorry_a that_o he_o do_v
for_o they_o all_o stand_v on_o one_o bottom_n to_o wit_n that_o they_o be_v not_o institute_v but_o more_o of_o this_o in_o its_o due_a place_n for_o mr._n baxter_n authority_n we_o lie_v little_a weight_n on_o it_o he_o have_v his_o own_o singular_a opinion_n which_o neither_o party_n do_v unanimous_o allow_v his_o reason_n in_o their_o place_n we_o shall_v consider_v what_o he_o say_v of_o the_o cross_v the_o baptise_a party_n i_o know_v not_o that_o i_o shall_v hereafter_o be_v put_v in_o mind_n of_o it_o wherefore_o i_o answer_v that_o though_o it_o be_v the_o minister_n action_n yet_o it_o be_v the_o party_n or_o his_o representatives_n passion_n and_o that_o personal_a it_o can_v be_v do_v on_o my_o person_n or_o my_o child_n be_v without_o my_o consent_n and_o submission_n as_o if_o i_o willing_o suffer_v holy_a water_n to_o be_v sprinkle_v on_o i_o i_o be_o culpable_a in_o reference_n to_o that_o superstition_n so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n sect._n 37._o the_o heavy_a complaint_n that_o he_o make_v pag._n 58._o of_o the_o unmanly_a and_o barbarous_a usage_n that_o he_o meet_v with_o for_o his_o sermon_n i_o be_o whole_o a_o stranger_n to_o and_o can_v pass_v no_o judgement_n on_o it_o but_o if_o this_o be_v as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v justify_v but_o he_o shall_v not_o charge_v the_o party_n with_o this_o there_o be_v some_o scurrilous_a and_o mean_a wit_n among_o all_o party_n of_o man_n who_o have_v no_o other_o way_n to_o express_v their_o zeal_n against_o what_o they_o dislike_v and_o if_o we_o shall_v trouble_v the_o world_n with_o such_o public_a resentment_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o deal_n and_o worse_o that_o we_o and_o our_o way_n have_v meet_v with_o and_o daily_o do_v meet_v with_o not_o only_o from_o the_o rabble_n and_o drunken_a boozer_n of_o his_o party_n but_o from_o pulpit_n and_o the_o press_n not_o by_o the_o base_a phamphelteer_n only_o but_o famous_a author_n witness_n dr._n heylin_n history_n of_o presbytery_n we_o may_v write_v book_n abundance_n his_o citation_n of_o bishop_n whitgift_n come_v little_a short_a of_o a_o full_a proof_n of_o what_o i_o now_o say_v in_o that_o he_o represent_v we_o as_o depraver_n railler_n back-bâ—ters_a inventor_n of_o lie_n and_o spreader_n of_o false_a rumour_n and_o that_o of_o the_o best_a deserve_a man_n if_o they_o but_o come_v short_a of_o please_v our_o humour_n sect._n 38._o the_o dr._n next_o p._n 59_o take_v a_o view_n of_o the_o force_n that_o he_o say_v be_v muster_v up_o against_o his_o sermon_n and_o pass_v a_o verdict_n on_o each_o of_o his_o adversary_n which_o i_o shall_v not_o stay_v to_o consider_v only_o i_o think_v he_o treat_v mr._n b._n with_o too_o much_o of_o the_o same_o sharpness_n that_o he_o complain_v he_o have_v receive_v though_o i_o think_v none_o who_o know_v the_o write_n of_o that_o learned_a man_n will_v applaud_v his_o severe_a strain_n and_o for_o mr._n a._n whether_o the_o dr._n be_v pique_v by_o some_o home_n thur_v that_o he_o have_v meet_v with_o from_o he_o i_o know_v not_o but_o a_o man_n of_o his_o worth_n and_o learning_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v so_o despise_v and_o his_o write_v represent_v so_o contemptible_o as_o the_o dr._n deal_v with_o he_o the_o facetiousness_n of_o his_o strain_n need_v to_o have_v breed_v no_o such_o disgust_n it_o be_v neither_o so_o low_z nor_o scurrilous_a as_o the_o author_n will_v make_v we_o believe_v other_o look_v on_o it_o as_o a_o condiment_n to_o prevent_v taedium_fw-la and_o nauseousness_n i_o know_v none_o that_o blame_v the_o excellent_a write_n of_o mr._n fuller_n which_o have_v a_o pleasantness_n not_o unlike_a that_o of_o mr._n a_n the_o debate_n that_o next_o fall_v in_o between_o the_o dr._n and_o mr._n a._n about_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o text_n of_o the_o dr_n sermon_n he_o now_o wave_v as_o i_o shall_v also_o do_v that_o about_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o deity_n which_o i_o think_v may_v have_v pass_v as_o foreign_a to_o this_o purpose_n sect._n 39_o one_o of_o his_o antagonist_n p._n 71._o charge_v he_o with_o changableness_n in_o write_v here_o contrary_a to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v in_o his_o irenicum_fw-la about_o which_o he_o make_v diverse_a apology_n a_o change_n in_o this_o learned_a man_n be_v too_o visible_a and_o if_o it_o have_v be_v to_o the_o better_a it_o have_v not_o be_v culpable_a but_o because_o his_o change_n do_v not_o so_o much_o concern_v our_o present_a debate_n about_o conformity_n to_o the_o present_a churchway_n i_o shall_v not_o meddle_v in_o that_o matter_n at_o this_o time_n especial_o a_o change_n be_v upon_o the_o matter_n acknowledge_v by_o himself_o p._n 76._o one_o thing_n i_o can_v pass_v over_o that_o he_o have_v assert_v in_o his_o irenicum_fw-la that_o if_o other_o cast_v they_o whole_o out_o of_o communion_n then_o be_v their_o separation_n necessary_a which_o he_o will_v reconcile_v with_o what_o he_o here_o write_v p._n 47._o by_o show_v a_o difference_n as_o to_o this_o between_o the_o excommunication_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o say_v he_o our_o church_n do_v not_o cast_v one_o whole_o out_o of_o communion_n for_o mere_a scrupulous_a nonconformity_n but_o allow_v to_o communicate_v in_o some_o part_n of_o worship_n 2._o we_o be_v but_o the_o lesser_a excommunication_n which_o he_o confess_v public_a defamer_n of_o the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v under_o ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la by_o the_o canon_n but_o that_o it_o lay_v on_o no_o obligation_n till_o due_o execute_v but_o the_o excommunication_n of_o rome_n be_v with_o a_o anathema_n all_o this_o be_v very_o little_a to_o the_o present_a purpose_n for_o if_o we_o be_v all_o ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la excommunicate_v and_o if_o this_o excommunication_n be_v most_o frequent_o as_o it_o be_v execute_v against_o we_o and_o capia_n issue_v out_o common_o against_o we_o and_o all_o this_o for_o mere_a scrupulous_a nonconformity_n as_o he_o call_v it_o by_o these_o mean_v we_o be_v de_fw-fr facto_fw-la put_v in_o such_o a_o case_n as_o we_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n among_o they_o and_o therefore_o we_o must_v either_o live_v without_o god_n ordinance_n or_o have_v they_o out_o of_o communion_n with_o their_o church_n again_o he_o allege_v p._n 75._o that_o he_o can_v not_o mean_v that_o there_o be_v a_o equal_a reason_n in_o these_o case_n when_o he_o express_o determine_v that_o in_o the_o case_n of_o our_o church_n man_n be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o submit_v to_o the_o order_n of_o it_o neither_o do_v this_o help_n the_o matter_n for_o if_o we_o think_v as_o we_o do_v that_o we_o be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n not_o to_o submit_v to_o all_o the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n some_o of_o they_o be_v unwarrant_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o if_o for_o this_o opinion_n and_o suitable_a practice_n to_o it_o we_o be_v so_o excommunicate_v as_o we_o can_v enjoy_v god_n ordinance_n with_o the_o church_n then_o we_o be_v cast_v whole_o out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o our_o separation_n must_v be_v lawful_a on_o the_o ground_n that_o of_o old_a he_o have_v lay_v down_o but_o pag._n 76._o he_o will_v in_o that_o case_n allow_v we_o a_o serupulous_a forbearance_n of_o act_n of_o communion_n but_o not_o to_o proceed_v to_o a_o positive_a separation_n but_o if_o we_o make_v use_v of_o his_o allowance_n the_o church_n who_o be_v of_o another_o mind_n put_v a_o bar_n to_o our_o enjoy_v all_o god_n ordinance_n what_o can_v we_o then_o do_v but_o either_o live_v without_o they_o or_o proceed_v to_o that_o which_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v a_o positive_a separation_n we_o be_v not_o convince_v that_o our_o practice_n be_v condemn_v by_o the_o wise_a protestant_n abroad_o for_o all_o the_o letter_n that_o he_o mention_v of_o which_o in_o their_o place_n and_o it_o be_v a_o rash_a assertion_n which_o he_o know_v can_v be_v try_v pag._n 77._o that_o if_o a_o council_n be_v call_v of_o all_o the_o protestant_a church_n in_o christendom_n we_o shall_v not_o doubt_v of_o their_o determination_n of_o the_o unlawfulness_n of_o the_o present_a separation_n he_o our_o author_n make_v good_a the_o say_n quod_fw-la misere_fw-la volumus_fw-la id_fw-la facile_fw-la credimus_fw-la any_o man_n that_o have_v see_v the_o uniformity_n in_o almost_o all_o thing_n that_o be_v between_o our_o mode_n of_o worship_n and_o they_o and_o the_o great_a deformity_n that_o be_v between_o they_o and_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n will_v find_v reason_n to_o expect_v a_o quite_o contrary_a determination_n from_o such_o a_o assembly_n we_o may_v appeal_v in_o this_o case_n even_o to_o some_o of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o excellent_a
reckon_v among_o they_o let_v the_o dr._n impute_v this_o to_o our_o obstinacy_n at_o his_o pleasure_n we_o can_v bear_v it_o in_o this_o we_o be_v murus_n aheneus_fw-la in_o the_o poet_n seâ—se_n sect._n 13._o he_o tell_v we_o p._n 53._o of_o the_o present_a separatist_n go_v beyond_o mr._n robinson_n the_o founder_n as_o he_o make_v he_o of_o the_o independent_a way_n who_o be_v for_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n in_o the_o word_n and_o prayer_n he_o shall_v have_v tell_v we_o who_o these_o be_v it_o be_v true_a they_o thrust_v we_o out_o from_o word_n and_o prayer_n too_o by_o deny_v we_o all_o church_n privilege_n for_o not_o submit_v to_o the_o imposition_n and_o force_v we_o to_o seek_v all_o god_n ordinance_n where_o we_o can_v have_v they_o in_o his_o way_n but_o we_o be_v far_o from_o withdraw_v from_o the_o word_n and_o prayer_n in_o the_o church_n of_o our_o own_o choice_n this_o discourse_n against_o the_o independent_a separation_n i_o meddle_v not_o with_o and_o therefore_o pass_v over_o all_o that_o he_o say_v from_o p._n 53._o to_o 59_o only_a touch_v two_o or_o three_o passage_n what_o mr._n câ—n_o say_v p._n 54_o of_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o puritan_n insert_v separation_n be_v so_o far_o true_a that_o their_o hold_v the_o unwarrantableness_n of_o bishop_n and_o ceremony_n do_v infer_v on_o they_o who_o act_n conscientious_o that_o they_o shall_v rather_o refrain_v from_o join_v with_o any_o church_n than_o own_o the_o one_o or_o use_v the_o other_o and_o if_o these_o be_v make_v the_o necessary_a term_n of_o communion_n with_o a_o church_n we_o must_v suffer_v ourselves_o to_o be_v separate_v from_o such_o imposer_n p._n 59_o some_o complain_v of_o the_o mischief_n of_o imposition_n a_o word_n the_o dr._n be_v very_o angry_a with_o because_o unordain_v man_n be_v not_o suffer_v to_o preach_v when_o and_o where_o they_o list_v be_v no_o fit_a parallel_n to_o the_o complaint_n that_o other_o make_v of_o the_o mischief_n of_o imposition_n when_o they_o be_v exclude_v the_o church_n for_o not_o use_v humane_a ceremony_n in_o the_o one_o case_n there_o be_v restraint_n of_o what_o be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n no_o impose_v in_o the_o other_o that_o be_v impose_v to_o be_v do_v which_o be_v without_o warrant_n yea_o condemn_v in_o scripture_n such_o mean_a â—rtifices_fw-la the_o dr._n reach_v at_o that_o he_o may_v ridicule_n our_o unwillingness_n to_o be_v impose_v on_o by_o man_n will_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god._n p._n 58_o he_o say_v presbyterian_o will_v not_o have_v all_o leave_v to_o conscience_n who_o ever_o say_v otherwise_o or_o can_v say_v otherwise_o unless_o they_o will_v first_o burn_v their_o bibles_n we_o never_o make_v conscience_n the_o rule_n it_o must_v be_v guide_v and_o rule_v by_o scripture_n what_o he_o say_v of_o popular_a government_n let_v they_o answer_v it_o who_o be_v concern_v he_o say_v humorous_a and_o factious_a people_n will_v always_o be_v complain_v of_o the_o mischief_n of_o imposition_n this_o title_n of_o mr._n a_n book_n be_v a_o great_a eyesore_a to_o he_o but_o he_o shall_v consider_v that_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n a_o imperious_a superstitious_a clergy_n that_o will_v be_v lord_n over_o god_n inheritance_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o apostle_n word_n will_v always_o be_v impose_v and_o take_v it_o ill_a that_o any_o shall_v think_v their_o imposition_n a_o burden_n as_o wise_a and_o sober_a man_n may_v do_v without_o be_v either_o humorous_a or_o factious_a he_o say_v the_o principle_n of_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n will_v unavoidable_o lead_v man_n into_o confusion_n many_o think_v that_o such_o indistinct_a and_o rash_a assertion_n be_v more_o like_a to_o lead_v divine_n into_o confusion_n in_o manage_v their_o polemic_a discourse_n must_v conscience_n then_o be_v bind_v hand_n and_o foot_n and_o carry_v whither_o the_o prelate_n please_v will_v even_o dr._n stillingfleet_n own_o mr._n parker_n notion_n of_o the_o public_a conscience_n have_v conscience_n no_o use_n but_o to_o discern_v what_o be_v my_o lord_n bishop_n will_n or_o what_o the_o act_n of_o parliament_n say_v we_o be_v as_o far_o from_o own_v a_o unbounded_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n as_o the_o dr._n be_v but_o the_o absolute_a deny_v of_o all_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n be_v like_a to_o lead_v man_n into_o atheism_n than_o give_v they_o some_o liberty_n to_o lead_v they_o into_o confusion_n let_v conscience_n then_o have_v liberty_n where_o it_o have_v scripture_n warrant_n for_o what_o it_o hold_v which_o be_v the_o liberty_n we_o plead_v for_o to_o ourselves_o and_o let_v it_o not_o be_v rigorous_o deal_v with_o in_o thing_n that_o be_v of_o lesser_a moment_n in_o religion_n where_o they_o that_o profess_v conscience_n be_v otherwise_o sober_a and_o peaceable_a and_o there_o be_v no_o hazard_n of_o confusion_n from_o conscience_n it_o be_v a_o more_o innocent_a thing_n where_o it_o be_v right_o deal_v with_o than_o the_o dr._n take_v it_o to_o be_v and_o we_o think_v it_o be_v more_o to_o be_v regard_v than_o the_o rule_n of_o order_n and_o government_n in_o a_o church_n which_o the_o dr._n seem_v to_o bring_v in_o competition_n with_o it_o i_o mean_v such_o rule_n as_o be_v but_o of_o man_n devise_v it_o be_v false_a that_o the_o presbyterian_o can_v answer_v independent_n as_o to_o the_o pretence_n of_o conscience_n nor_o they_o the_o anabaptist_n for_o the_o one_o can_v refute_v the_o other_o wherein_o they_o mistake_v and_o tell_v they_o that_o conscience_n can_v make_v their_o error_n to_o be_v a_o truth_n and_o yet_o they_o can_v bear_v with_o godly_a and_o peaceable_a man_n in_o these_o mistake_n because_o of_o their_o conscience_n sect._n 14._o he_o tell_v we_o sect._n 14._o that_o the_o presbyterian_o charge_v the_o dissent_v brethren_n with_o be_v the_o occasion_n of_o a_o inundation_n of_o error_n by_o their_o go_v upon_o the_o principle_n of_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n i_o be_o far_o from_o justify_v that_o toleration_n which_o the_o independent_n plead_v for_o and_o which_o by_o their_o mean_n some_o say_v be_v use_v in_o our_o late_a time_n of_o distraction_n then_o there_o be_v no_o king_n in_o our_o israel_n all_o error_n shall_v be_v oppose_v gross_a error_n punish_v and_o restrain_v by_o force_n but_o will_v it_o hence_o follow_v that_o we_o must_v not_o have_v leave_n to_o dissent_n even_o from_o those_o thing_n that_o the_o church_n impose_v without_o warrant_n from_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o citation_n that_o the_o dr._n bring_v p._n 59_o 60_o 61._o be_v evident_o against_o a_o vast_a toleration_n the_o uniformity_n in_o religion_n that_o the_o scotch-commissioner_n speak_v of_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o word_n in_o prayer_n and_o humane_a ceremony_n for_o will_v they_o not_o then_o have_v first_o settle_v that_o way_n at_o home_n but_o of_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n and_o worship_n so_o far_o as_o command_v by_o christ._n sect._n 15._o the_o dr._n be_v please_v to_o give_v himself_o the_o trouble_n from_o p._n 61._o to_o 73._o to_o transcribe_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o many_o and_o large_a debate_n that_o be_v between_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n and_o the_o dissent_v brethren_n but_o he_o will_v find_v it_o hard_o to_o apply_v the_o condemn_v of_o their_o separation_n to_o our_o case_n for_o they_o refuse_v communion_n with_o the_o presbyterian_o who_o they_o can_v not_o charge_v with_o require_v they_o to_o use_v any_o mode_n of_o worship_n but_o what_o be_v command_v they_o leave_v the_o church_n for_o suppose_a corruption_n which_o be_v none_o of_o their_o personal_a fault_n nor_o be_v they_o put_v under_o a_o necessity_n of_o approve_v they_o we_o be_v willing_a to_o have_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n if_o we_o may_v be_v suffer_v but_o to_o forbear_v these_o personal_a accusation_n that_o be_v our_o sin_n if_o we_o shall_v do_v they_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o conclusion_n the_o dr._n draw_v from_o these_o debate_n p._n 73_o 74._o the_o one_a be_v that_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n thought_n themselves_o bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o do_v look_v on_o separation_n from_o it_o as_o sin_n notwithstanding_o its_o corruption_n this_o he_o think_v he_o have_v so_o prove_v that_o the_o shine_a of_o the_o sun_n may_v as_o easy_o be_v deny_v whether_o it_o have_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o be_v above_o discourse_v and_o with_o what_o measure_n of_o clearness_n let_v other_o judge_n also_o how_o inconcludent_a man_n authority_n be_v in_o god_n matter_n have_v be_v show_v the_o second_o conclusion_n be_v that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n towards_o preserve_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n to_o go_v so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v able_a so_o that_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o separation_n where_o communion_n be_v lawful_a be_v
to_o get_v that_o remove_v where_o he_o consider_v the_o several_a principle_n on_o which_o he_o allege_v that_o the_o several_a sort_n of_o dissenter_n do_v proceed_v in_o their_o separate_n from_o the_o church_n i_o be_o not_o oblige_v nor_o shall_v i_o endeavour_v to_o defend_v all_o these_o the_o owner_n of_o they_o not_o agree_v among_o themselves_o let_v every_o one_o stand_v up_o for_o his_o own_o principle_n but_o there_o be_v one_o general_a principle_n that_o i_o think_v nonconformist_n agree_v in_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n impose_v some_o unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n and_o because_o of_o not_o submit_v to_o these_o she_o exclude_v the_o dissenter_n from_o her_o communion_n and_o be_v thus_o exclude_v they_o think_v it_o their_o duty_n to_o worship_n god_n apart_o by_o themselves_o when_o they_o be_v not_o suffer_v to_o do_v it_o with_o the_o church_n without_o sin._n if_o any_o do_v add_v to_o this_o other_o principle_n i_o leave_v the_o defence_n of_o they_o to_o their_o author_n this_o be_v to_o be_v further_o open_v in_o the_o three_o part_n where_o the_o dr._n examine_v the_o several_a plea_n for_o separation_n he_o be_v please_v to_o take_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o pain_n to_o refute_v some_o thing_n as_o insufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n which_o some_o dissenter_n have_v mention_v in_o their_o book_n as_o additional_a motive_n there_o be_v other_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o non-communion_n which_o never_o any_o of_o they_o own_a as_o the_o sole_a ground_n of_o their_o practice_n or_o a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o not_o join_v with_o the_o church_n by_o itself_o this_o be_v to_o set_v up_o a_o man_n of_o straw_n that_o he_o may_v get_v a_o victory_n by_o bear_v he_o down_o instance_n enough_o of_o this_o kind_n will_v occur_v in_o our_o progress_n i_o shall_v consider_v what_o be_v argumentative_a against_o the_o principle_n already_o mention_v that_o i_o hold_v sect_n i._o some_o opinion_n about_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n examine_v the_o dissenter_n with_o reference_n to_o the_o principle_n of_o their_o withdraw_n from_o the_o church_n he_o divide_v into_o two_o sort_n 1._o such_o as_o hold_v partial_a and_o occasional_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n lawful_a but_o not_o total_a and_o constant_a communion_n and_o that_o they_o may_v choose_v communion_n where_o there_o be_v great_a purity_n and_o edification_n 2._o such_o as_o hold_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n to_o be_v unlawful_a because_o they_o believe_v the_o term_n of_o its_o communion_n to_o be_v unlawful_a such_o as_o the_o liturgy_n cross_n etc._n etc._n this_o distinction_n be_v unhappy_o state_v for_o 1._o non_fw-la exhaurit_fw-la divisum_fw-la there_o be_v a_o three_o sort_n who_o hold_v partial_a and_o occasional_a communion_n lawful_a but_o not_o total_a and_o constant_a and_o yet_o believe_v the_o church_n term_n of_o communion_n unlawful_a and_o because_o of_o that_o belief_n can_v communicate_v total_o and_o constant_o with_o her._n we_o can_v hear_v a_o sermon_n join_v in_o prayer_n without_o partake_v in_o any_o of_o the_o unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n to_o wit_n ceremony_n and_o liturgy_n but_o we_o can_v enjoy_v other_o ordinance_n and_o often_o we_o be_v even_o exclude_v from_o these_o by_o their_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o must_v seek_v the_o ordinance_n elsewhere_o 2._o partial_a and_o occasional_a communion_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n nor_o total_a and_o constant_a as_o to_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o they_o one_o may_v have_v communion_n with_o you_o and_o that_o not_o only_o occasional_o but_o constant_o in_o god_n ordinance_n that_o be_v keep_v pure_a and_o yet_o refuse_v communion_n with_o you_o in_o your_o own_o device_n and_o in_o those_o ordinance_n of_o god_n that_o you_o have_v so_o annex_v those_o device_n to_o that_o the_o one_o can_v be_v have_v without_o the_o other_o and_o there_o be_v some_o that_o practise_v according_o they_o wait_v on_o your_o sermon_n and_o pulpit-prayer_n constant_o but_o refuse_v the_o rest_n of_o your_o worship_n 3._o i_o think_v there_o be_v few_o if_o any_o nonconformist_n that_o think_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n with_o your_o church_n lawful_a and_o can_v keep_v occasional_a communion_n with_o she_o and_o yet_o separate_v for_o great_a purity_n and_o edification_n if_o any_o such_o be_v they_o make_v a_o causeless_a separation_n indeed_o sect._n 2._o he_o will_v now_o proceed_v with_o all_o clearness_n which_o he_o have_v not_o do_v in_o the_o forementioned_a distinction_n and_o consider_v three_o thing_n 1._o what_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v take_v for_o grant_v by_o the_o several_a party_n 2._o wherein_o they_o differ_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o nature_n and_o degree_n of_o separation_n 3._o what_o the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o present_a controversy_n about_o separation_n be_v for_o the_o first_o he_o say_v there_o be_v three_o thing_n that_o we_o can_v deny_v and_o i_o say_v there_o be_v not_o one_o of_o the_o three_o but_o they_o be_v to_o be_v deny_v or_o at_o least_o distinguish_v and_o not_o admit_v as_o he_o set_v they_o down_o the_o first_o of_o they_o be_v that_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n of_o separation_n because_o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n i_o do_v cordial_o agree_v with_o the_o learned_a author_n who_o he_o cit_v in_o the_o proof_n of_o this_o p._n 95._o that_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n of_o separate_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o refuse_v communion_n with_o all_o her_o congregation_n on_o account_n of_o that_o which_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n contain_v in_o the_o 39_o article_n for_o we_o assent_v to_o they_o all_o as_o true_a except_o those_o about_o bishop_n and_o ceremony_n and_o we_o will_v not_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n because_o of_o doctrinal_a mistake_n in_o these_o thing_n if_o the_o own_n of_o they_o be_v not_o impose_v as_o term_n of_o our_o communion_n with_o her._n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o easy_a to_o persuade_v we_o that_o there_o be_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o withdraw_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o some_o particular_a parish_n in_o england_n where_o arminianism_n or_o socinianism_n be_v common_o teach_v where_o the_o practice_n of_o godliness_n be_v ridicule_v and_o principle_n strike_v at_o the_o root_n of_o it_o be_v instill_v into_o the_o hearer_n such_o as_o that_o all_o the_o aid_n of_o the_o spirit_n that_o man_n pretend_v to_o look_v after_o that_o be_v above_o that_o exercise_n of_o their_o own_o faculty_n that_o be_v in_o their_o own_o power_n be_v but_o fancy_n that_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o to_o be_v mind_v by_o christian_n but_o only_a obedience_n to_o his_o law_n that_o rest_a on_o christ_n roll_v the_o soul_n on_o he_o be_v no_o fit_a expression_n of_o faith._n what_o will_v the_o dr._n have_v serious_a christian_n who_o be_v concern_v about_o the_o salvation_n of_o their_o soul_n do_v when_o such_o a_o minister_n be_v set_v over_o they_o shall_v they_o hear_v he_o that_o be_v to_o sit_v down_o to_o a_o table_n where_o poison_n be_v strew_v over_o all_o the_o meat_n and_o it_o be_v hard_a if_o not_o impossible_a at_o the_o best_a dangerous_a to_o pick_v out_o a_o wholesome_a bit_n and_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o solomon_n advice_n prov._n 19_o 27._o cease_v my_o son_n to_o hear_v the_o instruction_n that_o cause_v to_o err_v from_o the_o word_n of_o knowledge_n they_o who_o will_v have_v such_o doctrine_n hear_v but_o not_o receive_v may_v as_o well_o advise_v to_o go_v to_o the_o stew_n but_o not_o commit_v fornication_n shall_v they_o complain_v to_o superior_n against_o the_o erroneous_a preacher_n but_o what_o if_o they_o get_v no_o redress_n and_o the_o heretic_n be_v countenance_v and_o dignify_v notwithstanding_o that_o all_o this_o be_v know_v to_o the_o world_n by_o the_o press_n as_o well_o as_o the_o pulpit_n what_o if_o such_o a_o case_n as_o this_o or_o little_o less_o evil_a be_v not_o rare_a ought_v not_o people_n to_o seek_v their_o soul_n food_n in_o corner_n when_o they_o can_v have_v it_o in_o the_o public_a assembly_n be_v mean_a while_n ready_a again_o to_o join_v with_o the_o assembly_n when_o the_o lord_n shall_v remove_v this_o stumbling-block_n sect._n 3_o the_o second_o concession_n of_o his_o adversary_n that_o the_o dr._n set_v down_o be_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o reason_n of_o separation_n because_o of_o the_o term_n of_o communion_n that_o what_o be_v from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n a_o sufficient_a refutation_n of_o this_o may_v be_v see_v par._n 1._o sect._n 1_o 2_o 3_o 4._o if_o he_o can_v tell_v of_o some_o alteration_n that_o have_v be_v make_v to_o the_o better_a we_o can_v tell_v and_o have_v tell_v of_o other_o make_v to_o the_o worse_o it_o may_v be_v mr._n baxter_n think_v lay-communion_n easy_o than_o before_o
he_o think_v it_o so_o easy_a that_o he_o practise_v more_o of_o it_o than_o his_o brethren_n can_v do_v but_o that_o be_v no_o proof_n what_o he_o object_v from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o martyr_n be_v above_o answer_v the_o three_o concession_n that_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v be_v still_o own_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n abroad_o i_o have_v before_o answer_v this_o also_o show_v that_o though_o some_o of_o the_o divine_n for_o no_o church_n ever_o give_v any_o hint_n to_o that_o purpose_n in_o their_o condescendency_n have_v show_v aversion_n from_o our_o withdraw_n yet_o they_o have_v lay_v down_o doctrinal_a principle_n that_o necessitate_v what_o they_o be_v so_o averse_a from_o their_o receive_v the_o apology_n and_o article_n of_o our_o church_n into_o the_o harmony_n of_o confession_n the_o dr._n bring_v as_o a_o argument_n against_o separation_n from_o she_o but_o it_o be_v a_o frivolous_a argument_n both_o because_o the_o collection_n of_o these_o confession_n be_v not_o the_o work_n of_o the_o church_n but_o of_o a_o private_a writer_n as_o also_o because_o the_o author_n of_o that_o book_n reckon_v england_n among_o the_o protestant_a church_n do_v not_o by_o so_o do_v oblige_v all_o to_o submit_v to_o her_o unlawful_a imposition_n what_o durel_n have_v say_v or_o he_o or_o other_o can_v say_v of_o the_o good_a opinion_n of_o reform_a divine_n of_o the_o constitution_n and_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o englâ—nd_n may_v soon_o be_v balance_v by_o testimony_n out_o of_o the_o same_o reverend_n divine_n condemn_v her_o ceremony_n as_o relic_n of_o popery_n sect._n 4._o the_o second_o thing_n that_o he_o insist_v on_o he_o begin_v sect._n 2._o to_o examine_v the_o several_a hypothesis_n and_o principle_n of_o separation_n that_o be_v at_o this_o day_n talk_v of_o among_o dissenter_n he_o say_v some_o seem_v to_o allow_v separate_a congregation_n only_o in_o such_o place_n where_o the_o church_n be_v not_o capable_a to_o receive_v the_o inhabitant_n and_o this_o he_o ground_v on_o some_o passage_n wherein_o some_o have_v defend_v their_o meeting-house_n by_o this_o consideration_n that_o all_o the_o inhabitant_n in_o london_n can_v not_o hear_v in_o the_o church_n but_o do_v ever_o any_o of_o they_o say_v that_o this_o be_v either_o the_o only_a or_o main_a reason_n of_o their_o meeting_n or_o be_v it_o not_o rather_o bring_v as_o a_o additional_a consideration_n to_o blunt_v the_o edge_n of_o that_o clamour_n that_o be_v raise_v against_o nonconformist_n preach_v by_o they_o who_o neither_o can_v benefit_v the_o people_n themselves_o nor_o will_v suffer_v other_o to_o do_v it_o whereas_o the_o nonconformist_n have_v other_o reason_n for_o not_o join_v with_o the_o church_n but_o worship_v god_n without_o humane_a mixture_n in_o other_o assembly_n but_o even_o that_o reason_n may_v have_v some_o weight_n ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la against_o the_o silencer_n of_o nonconformist_a minister_n i_o hope_v to_o give_v better_a reason_n in_o due_a time_n and_o place_n for_o the_o nonconformist_a minister_n preach_v but_o i_o be_o very_o free_a to_o declare_v that_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n of_o withdraw_v from_o her_o ordinance_n this_o allege_a be_v not_o sufficient_a sect._n 5._o some_o say_v he_o sect._n 3._o do_v allow_v communion_n with_o some_o parochial_a church_n in_o some_o duty_n and_o at_o some_o season_n but_o not_o with_o all_o church_n in_o all_o duty_n and_o at_o all_o time_n and_o from_o this_o he_o charge_v the_o separation_n as_o a_o mystery_n as_o if_o we_o deal_v not_o open_o and_o ingenious_o in_o set_v down_o our_o opinion_n but_o i_o ask_v the_o dr._n who_o of_o the_o nonconformist_n do_v ever_o thus_o express_v their_o opinion_n without_o further_a explication_n and_o if_o none_o have_v it_o be_v not_o candour_n so_o to_o represent_v we_o we_o desire_v not_o to_o walk_v in_o the_o dark_a nor_o be_v we_o ashamed_a of_o our_o principle_n we_o profess_v then_o that_o in_o parish_n where_o truth_n be_v preach_v and_o not_o dangerous_a error_n and_o in_o those_o ordinance_n to_o which_o no_o humane_a ceremony_n be_v annex_v as_o preach_v and_o prayer_n and_o when_o we_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o wait_v on_o the_o ordinance_n in_o those_o assembly_n where_o we_o have_v all_o the_o ordinance_n in_o purity_n as_o we_o can_v even_o in_o the_o parish_n mention_v because_o of_o unlawful_a imposition_n make_v the_o term_n of_o our_o communion_n with_o they_o i_o say_v thus_o we_o can_v join_v with_o they_o but_o not_o otherwise_o i_o hope_v there_o be_v no_o labyrinth_n in_o this_o declaration_n of_o our_o opinion_n sect._n 6._o he_o be_v at_o much_o pain_n to_o prove_v that_o we_o go_v upon_o the_o same_o principle_n with_o the_o old_a separatist_n which_o he_o prove_v of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n out_o of_o mr._n baxter_n reproof_n of_o they_o for_o their_o unsoberness_n i_o know_v the_o reproof_n of_o that_o learned_a author_n be_v sometime_o deal_v at_o random_n but_o if_o any_o of_o the_o people_n have_v undue_a apprehension_n of_o thing_n and_o understand_v not_o so_o well_o as_o need_n be_v what_o they_o profess_v will_v that_o ruin_v our_o cause_n be_v there_o no_o such_o blame_n among_o his_o party_n do_v they_o all_o speak_v judicious_o and_o sober_o and_o with_o no_o tincture_n of_o popish_a principle_n in_o manage_v their_o conformity_n but_o he_o will_v p._n 103._o have_v even_o our_o teacher_n to_o come_v near_o to_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o old_a separatist_n for_o what_o matter_n be_v it_o say_v he_o as_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o separation_n whether_o the_o term_n of_o our_o communion_n be_v call_v idolatrous_a or_o unlawful_a whether_o our_o ministry_n be_v call_v a_o false_a or_o insufficient_a ministry_n scandalous_a usurper_n and_o persecutor_n whether_o our_o hierarchy_n be_v call_v antichristian_a or_o repugnant_a to_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n ans._n 1._o a_o difference_n sufficient_a to_o make_v our_o separation_n lawful_a and_o they_o unlawful_a be_v that_o we_o withdraw_v be_v put_v away_o by_o the_o church_n for_o not_o submit_v to_o unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n these_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o will_v not_o join_v with_o she_o even_o though_o these_o term_n have_v not_o be_v impose_v look_v on_o the_o church_n as_o no_o true_a church_n answ._n 2._o whatever_o fault_n we_o find_v with_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o hierarchy_n we_o do_v not_o separate_v because_o of_o these_o we_o will_v join_v with_o you_o for_o all_o these_o grievance_n if_o you_o will_v but_o suffer_v we_o to_o do_v it_o without_o sin_v against_o god_n in_o that_o which_o be_v our_o personal_a action_n i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o allege_v that_o the_o old_a separatist_n be_v of_o that_o principle_n sect._n 7._o but_o this_o to_o wit_n that_o we_o be_v of_o the_o same_o principle_n with_o the_o old_a separatist_n the_o dr._n will_v make_v manifest_a and_o that_o 1._o as_o to_o the_o people_n 2._o as_o to_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n as_o to_o the_o people_n sect._n 4._o he_o say_v we_o disow_v the_o old_a separation_n and_o yet_o make_v the_o term_n of_o lay-communion_n for_o person_n as_o member_n of_o the_o church_n unlawful_a this_o i_o own_o save_v that_o i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o contend_v with_o he_o about_o the_o term_n member_n of_o the_o church_n let_v the_o thing_n be_v understand_v to_o wit_n that_o we_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o join_v in_o the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n and_o see_v we_o can_v have_v god_n ordinance_n without_o these_o with_o the_o church_n we_o think_v it_o our_o duty_n to_o serve_v god_n without_o these_o apart_o among_o ourselves_o yet_o be_v ready_a to_o worship_n god_n with_o the_o church_n when_o they_o shall_v please_v to_o suffer_v we_o to_o do_v it_o without_o these_o imposition_n this_o i_o say_v be_v understand_v we_o matter_n not_o much_o whether_o he_o call_v this_o a_o cast_v off_o of_o membership_n with_o the_o church_n or_o not_o mr._n baxter_n he_o say_v call_v it_o schismatical_a in_o the_o church_n to_o deny_v baptism_n without_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n and_o godfather_n and_o the_o communion_n without_o kneel_v and_o that_o people_n in_o this_o case_n may_v join_v with_o other_o pastor_n that_o will_v otherwise_o baptise_v and_o give_v the_o communion_n and_o i_o say_v the_o same_o what_o be_v this_o say_v the_o dr._n but_o formal_a separation_n ans._n it_o be_v nothing_o else_o and_o what_o have_v he_o gain_v by_o that_o concession_n for_o who_o ever_o question_v but_o there_o be_v a_o separation_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n between_o the_o rigid_a imposer_n and_o the_o dissenter_n but_o the_o question_n be_v who_o be_v the_o culpable_a cause_n of_o the_o formal_a separation_n and_o consequent_o who_o
apprehension_n can_v warrant_v we_o to_o break_v the_o church_n in_o piece_n the_o best_a ground_a scruple_n can_v only_o warrant_v our_o peaceable_a withdraw_a and_o worship_v god_n apart_o which_o may_v consist_v with_o the_o church_n be_v whole_a and_o sound_a he_o do_v exceed_o wrong_n mr._n b._n and_o other_o in_o that_o he_o impute_v to_o they_o a_o opinion_n that_o better_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v by_o itself_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separate_n from_o a_o church_n if_o any_o have_v ever_o assert_v that_o let_v they_o bear_v their_o blame_n it_o may_v be_v some_o may_v mention_v this_o as_o a_o cumulative_a inducement_n to_o join_v with_o other_o society_n but_o none_o of_o we_o ever_o hold_v that_o this_o alone_a can_v warrant_v a_o separation_n and_o yet_o the_o dr._n be_v at_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o pain_n to_o prove_v that_o neither_o the_o old_a separatist_n nor_o the_o new-england-man_n ever_o hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n which_o he_o may_v have_v get_v we_o to_o yield_v to_o he_o without_o his_o spend_v five_o page_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o but_o some_o man_n labour_v most_o in_o that_o which_o be_v least_o necessary_a i_o know_v not_o what_o name_n to_o give_v to_o the_o dr_n assertion_n p._n 117._o that_o this_o great_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v now_o the_o main_a support_n of_o the_o present_a separation_n nothing_o can_v be_v speak_v with_o less_o semblance_n of_o truth_n sect_n ii_o of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o sect._n 7._o and_o forward_o the_o dr._n debate_v against_o separation_n that_o be_v ground_v on_o the_o church_n want_n of_o true_a or_o right_o qualify_v minister_n here_o i_o shall_v have_v but_o little_a debate_n with_o he_o i_o shall_v to_o cut_v off_o debate_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v lay_v down_o my_o own_o thought_n which_o i_o think_v be_v not_o different_a from_o those_o of_o most_o sober_a nonconformist_n especial_o presbyterian_o in_o a_o few_o particular_n 1._o we_o look_v on_o some_o of_o the_o conform_v minister_n as_o person_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o excellent_a ministerial_a qualification_n and_o can_v live_v with_o great_a satisfaction_n under_o their_o ministry_n if_o it_o be_v permit_v to_o we_o without_o our_o sin._n 2._o other_o of_o they_o we_o know_v to_o be_v very_o bad_a man_n and_o ill_o qualify_v for_o the_o work_n that_o they_o undertake_v they_o be_v stranger_n in_o england_n who_o have_v not_o see_v this_o 3._o we_o be_v dissatisfy_v with_o some_o thing_n in_o the_o call_v and_o practice_n of_o all_o the_o present_a clergy_n we_o think_v the_o very_a office_n of_o some_o of_o they_o unlawful_a as_o bishop_n dean_n arch-deacon_n etc._n etc._n and_o their_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n alone_a not_o warrantable_a their_o call_n by_o patron_n we_o judge_v such_o also_o and_o their_o use_v the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n we_o look_v on_o as_o sinful_a these_o thing_n i_o now_o only_o assert_v and_o shall_v debate_v they_o with_o the_o dr._n as_o they_o fall_v in_o 4._o yet_o we_o deny_v not_o any_o of_o they_o on_o any_o or_o all_o of_o these_o account_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n nor_o to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o lawful_a call_v let_v this_o be_v understand_v of_o bishop_n and_o dean_n etc._n etc._n as_o minister_n not_o as_o in_o these_o superior_a office_n 5._o though_o we_o think_v a_o better_a and_o more_o edify_a ministry_n than_o that_o which_o most_o of_o the_o people_n of_o eâ—gland_n live_v under_o very_o desirable_a yet_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o any_o defect_n that_o be_v in_o their_o ministerial_a call_n or_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n sect._n 2._o these_o thing_n be_v premise_v i_o be_o resolve_v not_o to_o take_v the_o defence_n of_o all_o that_o some_o have_v write_v of_o the_o defect_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o ground_n of_o separation_n though_o i_o find_v many_o thing_n cite_v by_o the_o dr._n that_o at_o first_o view_n may_v seem_v to_o have_v that_o tendency_n aâ—d_v he_o improve_v they_o with_o all_o the_o advantage_n that_o he_o can_v and_o yet_o be_v not_o so_o mean_v in_o the_o very_a entrance_n of_o this_o discourse_n i_o meet_v with_o a_o most_o unjust_a imputation_n lay_v on_o we_o by_o the_o dr._n in_o general_n say_v he_o they_o declare_v that_o they_o only_o look_v on_o those_o as_o true_a church_n which_o have_v such_o pastor_n as_o they_o approve_v and_o for_o this_o cit_v not_o oâ—e_a author_n but_o mr._n baxter_n be_v this_o fair_a deal_n do_v ever_o the_o nonconformist_n make_v mr._n baxter_n their_o general_a representative_a or_o have_v he_o so_o much_o as_o pretend_v to_o write_v in_o the_o name_n of_o they_o all_o be_v it_o candid_a in_o we_o if_o we_o shall_v pick_v out_o some_o passage_n out_o of_o dr._n sherlock_n book_n of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n and_o impute_v those_o opinion_n to_o the_o conformist_n as_o their_o doctrine_n in_o general_n beside_o mr._n baxter_n nor_o no_o nonconformist_a never_o make_v their_o approbation_n the_o rule_n by_o which_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v judge_v the_o have_v of_o who_o make_v a_o true_a church_n but_o the_o dr._n look_v on_o we_o as_o a_o company_n of_o silly_a ridiculous_a man_n and_o be_v please_v often_o so_o to_o expose_v we_o mr._n baxter_n notion_n about_o true_a pastor_n and_o true_a church_n i_o know_v he_o himself_o can_v best_o defend_v and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v he_o and_o the_o dr._n to_o debate_v that_o case_n sect._n 3_o he_o say_v sect._n 8._o if_o the_o people_n judge_v their_o minister_n to_o be_v unworthy_a or_o incompetent_a they_o allow_v thâ—m_a liberty_n to_o withdraw_v and_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o and_o promise_v to_o prove_v it_o from_o many_o passage_n in_o several_a book_n of_o mr._n baxter_n and_o other_o still_o he_o represent_v we_o as_o make_v the_o people_n judgement_n the_o rule_n and_o that_o this_o judgement_n be_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n not_o consider_v whether_o their_o judgement_n be_v right_a or_o wrong_n or_o that_o there_o be_v a_o superior_a rule_n by_o which_o all_o judgement_n whether_o of_o people_n or_o other_o be_v to_o be_v govern_v all_o this_o we_o disow_v neither_o can_v the_o dr._n prove_v that_o any_o of_o we_o ever_o own_v it_o yea_o we_o further_o deny_v that_o we_o own_o a_o power_n in_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v and_o separate_v from_o every_o pastor_n who_o be_v real_o unworthy_a and_o incompetent_a but_o what_o he_o assert_v he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o three_o argument_n 1._o say_v he_o p._n 122._o they_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o people_n power_n notwithstanding_o all_o legal_a establishment_n to_o own_o or_o disown_n who_o they_o judge_v fit_a this_o we_o deny_v and_o the_o proof_n he_o bring_v of_o it_o be_v mr._n b._n speak_v against_o the_o right_n of_o patronage_n and_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o these_o case_n for_o the_o unalterable_a right_n of_o the_o people_n mr._n a._n say_v every_o particular_a church_n have_v power_n to_o choose_v its_o own_o pastor_n dr._n owen_n make_v the_o deprive_v the_o people_n of_o this_o right_n a_o ground_n of_o separation_n if_o dr._n owen_n have_v do_v so_o let_v it_o pass_v for_o a_o part_n of_o the_o independent_a judgement_n which_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n other_o be_v not_o of_o that_o mind_n for_o mr._n b._n and_o mr._n a_n word_n no_o such_o consequence_n can_v be_v draw_v from_o they_o the_o people_n and_o neither_o patron_n nor_o any_o other_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v the_o right_n of_o election_n of_o their_o pastor_n but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o bear_v with_o be_v hinder_v the_o exercise_n of_o this_o right_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n sect._n 4._o the_o second_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v make_v judge_n of_o the_o worthyness_n and_o competency_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o say_v he_o follow_v from_o the_o former_a ans._n i_o have_v disow_v the_o former_a and_o therefore_o this_o fall_v with_o it_o yet_o i_o here_o distinguish_v the_o the_o people_n have_v a_o discretive_a power_n of_o judge_v the_o fitness_n of_o the_o man_n that_o be_v to_o be_v set_v over_o they_o with_o respect_n to_o their_o soul_n so_o as_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v obtrude_v on_o they_o without_o their_o be_v satisfy_v with_o he_o but_o the_o people_n power_n of_o judge_v be_v not_o authoritative_a nor_o supreme_a much_o less_o absolute_a in_o this_o matter_n but_o subordinate_a to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n who_o have_v power_n of_o try_v the_o person_n elect_v by_o the_o people_n and_o reject_v he_o if_o unqualify_v for_o the_o spirit_n
have_v answer_v what_o have_v be_v say_v against_o the_o liturgy_n and_o the_o use_n of_o it_o in_o the_o anatomy_n of_o the_o service-book_n interest_n of_o word_n in_o prayer_n smectyminis_fw-la jerubbaal_n necessity_n of_o reformation_n and_o other_o piece_n to_o which_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n for_o satisfaction_n in_o this_o point_n although_o i_o have_v make_v some_o collection_n on_o this_o subject_n yet_o so_o much_o be_v say_v by_o other_o and_o neither_o the_o doctor_n nor_o any_o other_o be_v please_v to_o answer_v it_o i_o also_o shall_v wave_v this_o controversy_n only_o hint_v a_o few_o of_o the_o chief_a ground_n of_o our_o scruple_n in_o this_o matter_n because_o the_o dr._n p._n 332_o 333._o charge_v his_o answerer_n with_o pretend_v to_o scruple_n without_o give_v reason_n for_o their_o scruple_n sect._n 3_o we_o do_v not_o simple_o nor_o general_o condemn_v form_n of_o prayer_n they_o may_v be_v use_v when_o that_o work_n can_v be_v tolerable_o perform_v without_o they_o neither_o do_v we_o condemn_v join_v in_o such_o a_o way_n of_o pray_v even_o when_o the_o man_n that_o choose_v that_o way_n may_v and_o ought_v to_o do_v otherwise_o neither_o do_v we_o scruple_n join_v in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o liturgy_n mere_o because_o it_o be_v impose_v by_o authority_n i_o know_v we_o be_v misrepresent_v in_o all_o these_o but_o 1._o we_o condemn_v use_v of_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n either_o in_o private_a or_o public_a without_o such_o necessity_n as_o that_o duty_n can_v be_v tolerable_o perform_v without_o that_o help_n 2._o we_o think_v it_o unlawful_a for_o the_o church_n or_o any_o other_o to_o impose_v on_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n the_o use_n of_o a_o set_a form_n of_o pray_v where_o there_o be_v not_o absolute_a necessity_n 3._o we_o think_v in_o the_o present_a case_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o such_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o that_o imposition_n see_v minister_n may_v be_v have_v who_o be_v tolerable_o gift_v for_o their_o work_n and_o see_v it_o be_v christ_n institution_n that_o none_o but_o such_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o ministry_n and_o see_v any_o escape_n or_o indecency_n that_o can_v be_v observe_v in_o a_o minister_n administration_n be_v to_o be_v correct_v by_o the_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v christ_n way_n not_o by_o impose_v a_o liturgy_n which_o be_v man_n way_n 4._o we_o think_v it_o unlawful_a for_o minister_n who_o be_v tolerable_o gift_v for_o their_o work_n and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o such_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n they_o shall_v lay_v aside_o that_o work_n and_o betake_v themselves_o to_o other_o calling_n to_o submit_v to_o such_o imposition_n or_o to_o use_v such_o form_n of_o prayer_n 5._o what_o be_v say_v of_o form_n of_o prayer_n let_v it_o be_v also_o understand_v of_o form_n of_o preach_v administration_n of_o sacrament_n and_o exhortation_n at_o they_o and_o of_o other_o part_n of_o the_o service_n of_o god_n here_o we_o may_v rational_o except_v form_n of_o sing_a praise_n unto_o god_n and_o that_o on_o two_o ground_n 1._o the_o scripture_n have_v furnish_v the_o church_n with_o such_o form_n for_o all_o case_n of_o a_o soul_n and_o of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o book_n of_o psalm_n which_o be_v not_o do_v in_o prayer_n and_o other_o administration_n so_o that_o these_o form_n be_v not_o humane_a as_o other_o form_n must_v beâ—_n 2._o the_o gift_n of_o compose_v spiritual_a song_n fit_a to_o be_v sing_v in_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v expect_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v common_o give_v to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n as_o the_o gift_n of_o preach_v and_o pray_v be_v give_v 6._o we_o think_v it_o unlawful_a for_o people_n to_o join_v in_o worship_v god_n by_o a_o frame_n of_o service_n not_o institute_v nor_o warrant_v in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n both_o as_o to_o the_o matter_n and_o as_o to_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o 7._o the_o english_a service_n book_n be_v such_o a_o frame_n of_o service_n as_o be_v not_o warrant_v nor_o institute_v in_o the_o word_n and_o so_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o we_o to_o join_v in_o worship_v god_n by_o it_o sect._n 4._o if_o we_o can_v give_v good_a reason_n for_o the_o 2d_o four_o 6_o and_o seven_o of_o these_o assertion_n sufficient_a ground_n will_v appear_v for_o our_o scruple_v the_o use_n of_o the_o liturgy_n impose_v as_o one_o of_o the_o term_n of_o our_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o the_o first_o of_o these_o that_o man_n may_v not_o impose_v set_v form_n on_o gift_a minister_n argument_n for_o this_o be_v 1._o there_o be_v no_o warrant_n for_o such_o practice_n if_o there_o be_v it_o must_v be_v either_o christ_n command_n or_o his_o permission_n or_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o the_o first_o nor_o second_o be_v not_o allege_v because_o no_o such_o thing_n can_v be_v prove_v from_o the_o word_n nor_o the_o three_o for_o such_o a_o necessity_n be_v contrary_a to_o our_o supposition_n that_o the_o man_n so_o impose_v on_o be_v gift_v if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o best_a gift_a may_v slip_v into_o unfit_a expression_n reply_v this_o unfitness_n be_v either_o tolerable_a and_o so_o no_o necessity_n can_v arise_v from_o that_o hazard_n or_o intolerable_a and_o then_o it_o be_v to_o be_v cure_v by_o christ_n mean_n church_n discipline_n not_o by_o the_o invention_n of_o man._n 2._o no_o such_o imposition_n nor_o usage_n be_v ever_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n nor_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o 300_o year_n and_o more_o and_o yet_o there_o be_v minister_n subject_a to_o infirmity_n as_o man_n now_o be_v and_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n be_v by_o they_o fit_o manage_v may_v not_o the_o mean_n of_o secure_v worship_n from_o abuse_n serve_v we_o that_o serve_v they_o or_o will_v we_o be_v wise_a and_o more_o wary_a than_o they_o that_o there_o be_v any_o form_n use_v or_o impose_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n we_o need_v not_o prove_v the_o lord_n prayer_n be_v no_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a it_o can_v be_v make_v appear_v that_o ever_o it_o be_v intend_v to_o be_v a_o form_n of_o word_n or_o use_v as_o such_o and_o for_o the_o primitive_a time_n it_o be_v evident_a that_o when_o constantine_n will_v help_v his_o soldier_n new_o come_v out_o of_o heathenism_n with_o a_o form_n he_o behove_v to_o get_v some_o compose_v which_o need_v not_o have_v they_o then_o be_v in_o the_o church_n justin_n martyr_n apol._n 2._o p._n 98._o edition_n paris_n give_v account_n of_o their_o public_a exercise_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n to_o wit_n read_v scripture_n exhortation_n prayer_n singing_n administration_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n he_o say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v the_o minister_n send_v up_o prayer_n and_o thanksgiving_n as_o he_o be_v able_a than_o not_o by_o book_n but_o his_o ability_n as_o the_o lord_n furnish_v he_o tertullian_n apol._n c._n 30._o say_v they_o pray_v in_o their_o assembly_n sine_fw-la monitore_fw-la quum_fw-la de_fw-la pectore_fw-la and_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr oratiore_fw-la he_o show_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n to_o be_v ask_v according_a to_o every_o one_o occasion_n the_o lord_n prayer_n be_v lay_v as_o a_o foundation_n where_o the_o true_a use_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n note_n that_o by_o the_o way_n be_v hint_v to_o wit_n to_o be_v a_o directory_n not_o a_o form._n socrates_n hist._n eccles._n lib._n 5._o c._n 21._o which_o be_v whole_o spend_v in_o show_v what_o diversity_n of_o usage_n be_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n in_o divers_a place_n and_o how_o little_a weight_n be_v lay_v on_o uniformity_n the_o great_a argument_n for_o the_o common-prayer_n have_v these_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v general_o and_o every_o where_o in_o all_o religion_n in_o prayer_n there_o be_v not_o two_o to_o be_v find_v that_o agree_v in_o one_o which_o sure_o must_v be_v mean_v of_o agreement_n in_o the_o same_o word_n sect._n 5._o a_o three_o argument_n for_o this_o be_v such_o impose_v do_v thwart_o one_o great_a design_n of_o prayer_n in_o public_a which_o be_v to_o lay_v out_o before_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o several_a case_n of_o the_o people_n or_o the_o church_n their_o sin_n and_o want_n which_o do_v so_o vary_v that_o no_o book_n can_v suit_v they_o all_o i_o be_o sure_o we_o do_v not_o if_o it_o be_v answer_v thâ—s_v design_n may_v be_v answer_v by_o leave_v a_o liberty_n to_o minister_n sometime_o as_o afâ—er_v sermon_n 〈◊〉_d use_n their_o gift_n i_o reply_v that_o this_o liberty_n do_v frustrate_v the_o design_n of_o set_a prayer_n which_o be_v to_o prevent_v vent_v of_o error_n and_o indecency_n be_v not_o that_o hazard_n in_o permit_v prayer_n after_o sermon_n as_o well_o
bring_v papist_n to_o the_o church_n though_o it_o prove_v after_o a_o while_n rather_o a_o mean_a of_o carry_v protestant_n to_o the_o mass._n and_o king_n edward_n 6_o with_o the_o council_n do_v affirm_v as_o much_o in_o a_o letter_n to_o the_o rebel_n in_o the_o west_n who_o have_v rise_v in_o defence_n of_o popery_n say_v that_o the_o service_n that_o now_o they_o have_v in_o english_a be_v almost_o the_o same_o that_o before_o they_o have_v in_o latin._n and_o any_o that_o read_v the_o bible_n and_o the_o mass_n and_o this_o service_n may_v easy_o see_v that_o there_o be_v a_o far_o great_a simitude_n between_o it_o and_o the_o mass_n than_o between_o it_o and_o all_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n that_o the_o scripture_n give_v account_n of_o to_o have_v be_v practise_v in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n 2._o this_o may_v appear_v if_o we_o consider_v the_o original_a of_o this_o service_n it_o be_v take_v out_o of_o several_a popish_a book_n the_o prayer_n out_o of_o the_o breviary_n the_o sacrament_n burial_n matrimony_n visitation_n of_o the_o sick_a out_o of_o the_o ritual_a adminstration_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n out_o of_o the_o mass-book_n and_o consecration_n of_o bishop_n out_o of_o the_o pontifical_a as_o any_o may_v see_v who_o will_v be_v at_o the_o pain_n to_o compare_v the_o book_n mention_v together_o sect._n 12._o i_o know_v it_o will_v be_v say_v that_o they_o retain_v only_o those_o part_n of_o those_o book_n that_o be_v compose_v by_o the_o orthodox_n father_n of_o the_o church_n and_o use_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n but_o this_o be_v no_o sufficient_a defence_n for_o 1._o suppose_v that_o frame_n of_o worship_n have_v so_o good_a a_o original_a yet_o be_v now_o of_o late_a so_o gross_o abuse_v to_o idolatry_n and_o be_v so_o like_a to_o the_o idolatrous_a worship_n of_o the_o papist_n rather_o than_o like_o apostolic_a worship_n and_o we_o have_v depart_v from_o that_o church_n on_o good_a ground_n why_o shall_v we_o choose_v their_o way_n of_o worship_n and_o in_o so_o do_v both_o differ_v from_o the_o primitive_a time_n especial_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o from_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n 2._o it_o be_v false_a that_o this_o frame_n of_o service_n be_v compose_v by_o the_o father_n it_o be_v indeed_o say_v by_o some_o that_o jerom_n compose_v some_o prayer_n for_o the_o use_n oâ—_n weak_a christian_n but_o that_o he_o or_o any_o other_o such_o do_v compose_v this_o frame_n or_o any_o thing_n like_o it_o be_v deny_v and_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o these_o time_n the_o prayer_n be_v make_v by_o gregory_n the_o great_a anno_fw-la 600._o or_o thereabouts_o other_o part_n be_v add_v by_o other_o pope_n the_o respond_v come_v not_o in_o till_o many_o year_n after_o what_o be_v common_o talk_v of_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n james_n peter_n matthew_n mark_n be_v now_o so_o explode_v as_o learned_a man_n among_o our_o brethren_n do_v not_o plead_v for_o they_o this_o shall_v suffice_v concern_v the_o liturgy_n about_o which_o more_o may_v have_v be_v say_v but_o i_o have_v say_v more_o than_o at_o first_o i_o intend_v sect_n viii_o the_o other_o term_n of_o communion_n that_o they_o impose_v consider_v i_o proceed_v now_o to_o attend_v the_o learned_a dr_n discourse_n about_o these_o other_o term_n of_o communion_n that_o his_o church_n impose_v and_o we_o scruple_n and_o first_o i_o take_v notice_n that_o he_o charge_v his_o answerer_n with_o remain_v in_o general_n and_o pretend_v that_o they_o judge_v they_o esteem_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n unlawful_a but_o bring_v no_o particular_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o unlawfulness_n of_o they_o he_o say_v protestant_n do_v not_o do_v so_o when_o they_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n the_o answer_n to_o this_o be_v easy_a 1._o they_o be_v charge_v with_o separation_n and_o in_o answer_v the_o dr_n sermon_n act_v the_o part_n of_o defendant_n it_o be_v enough_o for_o that_o deâ—ence_n to_o plead_v that_o they_o do_v not_o separate_a without_o good_a ground_n and_o to_o show_v that_o they_o scruple_v such_o and_o such_o term_n of_o communion_n impose_v on_o they_o by_o the_o church_n it_o be_v not_o needful_a in_o this_o debate_n to_o resume_v all_o the_o controversy_n about_o the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n 2._o our_o party_n have_v give_v abundant_a proof_n of_o the_o reasonableness_n of_o their_o scruple_v at_o these_o thing_n the_o book_n above_o mention_v against_o the_o liturgy_n and_o against_o the_o ceremony_n didoclavius_n the_o author_n of_o the_o book_n call_v the_o english_a popish_a ceremony_n mr._n jean_n treasure_n out_o of_o rubbish_n a_o treatise_n of_o divine_a worship_n english_a puritanism_n twelve_o argument_n against_o ceremony_n smectymn_n g._n f._n question_n betwixt_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n and_o many_o other_o piece_n there_o be_v so_o much_o say_v in_o these_o and_o yet_o unanswered_a that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o repeat_v what_o be_v there_o say_v i_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o the_o same_o fault_n if_o it_o be_v one_o have_v at_o length_n dispute_v against_o the_o ceremony_n and_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v unlawful_a to_o be_v use_v in_o a_o piece_n entitle_v a_o vindication_n of_o the_o purity_n of_o gospel_n worship_n against_o mr._n geoâ—ge_n ritchel_n and_o other_o i_o may_v without_o blame_n refer_v the_o reader_n thither_o and_o not_o repeat_v what_o be_v there_o write_v provide_v i_o leave_v nothing_o unanswered_a that_o the_o dr._n have_v here_o say_v on_o that_o subject_a 3._o our_o party_n do_v not_o stand_v on_o equal_a ground_n with_o the_o dr._n and_o his_o party_n neither_o have_v we_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o press_n as_o they_o have_v nor_o that_o immunity_n to_o speak_v out_o our_o argument_n but_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o be_v conclude_v by_o a_o prison_n instead_o of_o argument_n but_o let_v not_o the_o dr._n think_v our_o cause_n be_v lay_v low_a because_o our_o person_n and_o worldly_a interest_n be_v so_o sect._n 2._o he_o resume_v a_o argument_n out_o of_o his_o sermon_n against_o our_o separate_n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v no_o separation_n where_o there_o be_v agreement_n in_o doctrine_n and_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o that_o this_o agreement_n be_v acknowledge_v in_o our_o case_n he_o say_v mr._n a._n deny_v such_o agreement_n both_o in_o doctrine_n of_o this_o i_o have_v give_v my_o judgement_n above_o part_v 2._o s._n 1._o section_n 2._o also_o in_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o allege_v the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n to_o be_v a_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n hence_o the_o dr._n undertake_v p._n 335._o 1._o to_o show_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n 2._o that_o the_o cross_n be_v not_o make_v such_o the_o dr._n seem_v to_o lay_v some_o weight_n on_o this_o distinction_n of_o part_n of_o worship_n to_o wit_n substantial_a and_o circumstantial_a or_o accidental_a and_o allege_v that_o many_o of_o we_o be_v mislead_v by_o not_o consider_v it_o i_o much_o desire_v the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o resolve_v careful_o to_o observe_v what_o he_o say_v and_o shall_v be_v ready_a to_o receive_v light._n he_o say_v that_o the_o nonconformist_n great_a principle_n be_v that_o what_o ever_o be_v any_o way_n intend_v or_o design_v for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n be_v a_o real_a and_o substantial_a part_n of_o his_o worship_n and_o when_o their_o adversary_n tell_v they_o that_o divine_a institution_n be_v needful_a to_o make_v a_o part_n of_o worship_n they_o say_v that_o make_v true_a worship_n but_o without_o it_o a_o act_n may_v be_v worship_n that_o be_v false_a worship_n and_o yet_o they_o allow_v the_o application_n of_o common_a circumstance_n to_o act_n of_o worship_n this_o subject_a i_o have_v discourse_v at_o large_a in_o the_o book_n above_o cite_v cap._n 3._o sect_n 1_o 3_o 4._o but_o shall_v now_o a_o little_a consider_v what_o representation_n the_o dr._n be_v please_v to_o make_v of_o our_o principle_n 1._o i_o know_v no_o nonconformist_n that_o ever_o assert_v that_o all_o that_o be_v intend_v or_o design_v for_o worship_n be_v worship_n either_o real_a or_o substantial_a for_o they_o well_o know_v that_o the_o meeting-place_n the_o minister_n maintenance_n the_o pulpit_n communion-table_n etc._n etc._n be_v design_v for_o worship_n and_o yet_o be_v no_o worship_n real_a nor_o imaginary_a substantial_a nor_o accidental_a true_a nor_o false_a if_o he_o mean_v by_o be_v design_v for_o worship_n that_o the_o person_n do_v such_o a_o act_n intend_v to_o worship_n god_n by_o so_o do_v which_o i_o can_v take_v to_o be_v his_o meaning_n i_o hope_v himself_o will_v acknowledge_v that_o though_o such_o a_o design_n be_v needful_a to_o make_v a_o act_n
less_o impose_v all_o the_o question_n be_v about_o the_o use_n of_o sponsor_n in_o the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n for_o the_o adult_n be_v to_o undertake_v for_o themselves_o some_o make_v the_o use_n of_o godfather_n to_o be_v witness_n of_o the_o childs-baptism_n that_o be_v very_o needless_a for_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v witness_n of_o that_o the_o true_a use_n of_o they_o be_v to_o represent_v the_o child_n as_o a_o party_n covenant_v with_o god_n in_o this_o solemn_a seal_v of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n between_o god_n and_o the_o infant_n and_o consequential_a to_o this_o to_o undertake_v the_o instruction_n and_o education_n of_o the_o child_n in_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o endeavour_v to_o engage_v he_o to_o a_o personal_a own_n of_o the_o covenant_n the_o original_n of_o other_o sponsor_n beside_o the_o parent_n be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n many_o young_a one_o either_o bear_v of_o heathen-parent_n or_o orphan_n of_o christian-parent_n fall_v into_o the_o tuition_n of_o heathen-relation_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o worldly_a concern_v be_v in_o hazard_n by_o that_o mean_n to_o be_v breed_v in_o heathenism_n wherefore_o it_o be_v judge_v needful_a that_o some_o faithful_a and_o intelligent_a christian_n shall_v undertake_v for_o their_o religious_a education_n this_o usage_n which_o reason_n have_v first_o bring_v in_o ostentation_n do_v afterward_o enlarge_v by_o multiply_a godfather_n and_o godmother_n and_o after_o that_o superstition_n do_v pervert_v it_o by_o exclude_v the_o parent_n and_o put_v stranger_n in_o their_o room_n till_o at_o last_o in_o popery_n it_o be_v quite_o deprave_v by_o make_v a_o spiritual_a kindred_n to_o result_v from_o this_o action_n wherefore_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o use_n of_o sponsor_n but_o think_v the_o parent_n the_o most_o proper_a sponsor_n both_o on_o account_n of_o their_o opportunity_n obligation_n and_o natural_a inclination_n to_o do_v the_o office_n of_o a_o sponsor_n for_o the_o child_n which_o may_v rational_o be_v think_v to_o be_v more_o in_o they_o than_o in_o a_o stranger_n and_o we_o think_v it_o a_o gross_a abuse_n to_o admit_v of_o other_o sponsor_n except_o in_o the_o want_n of_o parent_n or_o their_o inhability_n i_o think_v also_o consider_v thing_n as_o they_o be_v not_o bare_o in_o the_o notion_n that_o man_n have_v of_o thing_n that_o they_o will_v defend_v this_o practice_n be_v fall_v into_o such_o abuse_n that_o even_o that_o shall_v make_v it_o be_v lay_v aside_o for_o it_o be_v manifest_a and_o most_o common_a that_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n be_v choose_v most_o unqualify_v for_o and_o most_o unconcerned_a in_o that_o which_o they_o make_v a_o solemn_a promise_n to_o god_n to_o perform_v which_o be_v a_o horrid_a mock_n of_o he_o and_o his_o ordinance_n be_v not_o boy_n and_o girl_n choose_v or_o debauch_v and_o ignorant_a person_n or_o stranger_n that_o may_v be_v shall_v never_o see_v the_o child_n again_o nor_o mind_n it_o except_o it_o be_v to_o send_v it_o a_o new_a coat_n sect._n 9_o the_o dr._n tell_v we_o of_o mr._n cartwright_n yea_o and_o all_o protestant_a church_n approve_v of_o this_o but_o will_v he_o say_v that_o they_o be_v for_o exclude_v the_o parent_n which_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n that_o we_o controvert_v for_o as_o the_o dr._n confess_v can._n 29._o ordain_v that_o parent_n need_v not_o be_v present_a and_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v to_o answer_v that_o be_v they_o must_v not_o undertake_v for_o the_o instruction_n and_o education_n of_o their_o own_o child_n but_o say_v he_o the_o parent_n be_v to_o provide_v such_o as_o be_v fit._n i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o warrant_n be_v for_o this_o even_o from_o sound_a reason_n who_o can_v be_v so_o fit_a by_o his_o opportunity_n and_o care_n as_o the_o parent_n and_o if_o he_o be_v whole_o unfit_a as_o to_o understanding_n and_o respect_n to_o true_a religion_n we_o be_v not_o against_o his_o have_v a_o deputy_n in_o that_o case_n that_o it_o be_v do_v with_o the_o parent_n consent_n be_v better_a so_o than_o otherwise_o but_o that_o the_o parent_n can_v transfer_v his_o right_n to_o another_o be_v without_o all_o reason_n unless_o the_o person_n to_o who_o such_o a_o translation_n be_v make_v do_v real_o take_v the_o education_n of_o the_o child_n which_o though_o by_o a_o private_a compact_n between_o the_o parent_n and_o sponsor_n may_v be_v do_v yet_o what_o shadow_n of_o reason_n can_v be_v for_o a_o canon_n compel_v every_o parent_n to_o do_v it_o it_o be_v say_v he_o but_o like_o a_o occasion_n of_o absence_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o parent_n in_o which_o case_n all_o allow_v of_o a_o sponsor_n ans._n it_o be_v no_o way_n like_o it_o for_o the_o one_o have_v necessity_n to_o warrant_v it_o the_o other_o have_v nothing_o but_o man_n will_n or_o superstitious_a conceit_n be_v it_o alike_o for_o the_o state_n to_o make_v a_o law_n that_o neighbour_n shall_v feed_v and_o clothe_v the_o orphan_n of_o poor_a parent_n and_o to_o make_v a_o law_n that_o they_o shall_v feed_v and_o clothe_v the_o child_n of_o their_o rich_a neighbour_n who_o be_v alive_a the_o case_n be_v just_a so_o here_o it_o be_v a_o injury_n to_o a_o man_n to_o have_v his_o child_n take_v from_o he_o without_o a_o cause_n and_o give_v to_o another_o to_o be_v educate_v so_o it_o be_v to_o be_v oblige_v yea_o force_v to_o transfer_v upon_o another_o all_o that_o right_o he_o have_v to_o represent_v his_o own_o child_n and_o to_o engage_v for_o his_o education_n he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o the_o church_n intention_n to_o supersede_n the_o obligation_n of_o the_o parent_n but_o to_o superinduce_v a_o further_a obligation_n upon_o other_o person_n have_v the_o parent_n be_v permit_v to_o undertake_v for_o the_o child_n joint_o with_o the_o sponsor_n there_o have_v be_v some_o colour_n for_o this_o assertion_n but_o that_o be_v express_o deny_v by_o the_o canon_n it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o church_n do_v what_o she_o can_v to_o make_v the_o parent_n think_v that_o no_o obligation_n at_o all_o lie_v on_o he_o i_o meddle_v not_o with_o his_o debate_n against_o mr._n b._n about_o mr._n b_n argument_n against_o sponsor_n from_o the_o child_n have_v right_a to_o baptism_n only_o from_o the_o parent_n many_o learned_a man_n differ_v from_o mr._n b._n in_o that_o and_o i_o shall_v not_o digress_v to_o dispute_v it_o sect._n 10._o the_o dr._n pag._n 386._o say_v he_o find_v nothing_o particular_o object_v against_o kneel_v at_o the_o communion_n that_o deserve_v consideration_n which_o he_o have_v not_o answer_v in_o another_o place_n to_o wit_n conference_n first_o part_n which_o book_n i_o have_v not_o see_v wherefore_o i_o shall_v in_o a_o few_o word_n lay_v down_o our_o ground_n of_o scruple_v that_o practice_n and_o so_o leave_v it_o we_o do_v not_o scruple_n kneel_v at_o prayer_n which_o be_v join_v with_o receive_v of_o that_o sacrament_n nor_o do_v we_o deny_v that_o all_o possible_a reverence_n shall_v be_v use_v in_o go_v about_o that_o holy_a ordinance_n but_o we_o think_v the_o expression_n of_o that_o reverence_n shall_v be_v of_o god_n appoint_v in_o his_o word_n or_o ground_v on_o nature_n or_o civil_a custom_n and_o not_o institute_v by_o man_n will._n 1._o then_o we_o scruple_n it_o because_o it_o be_v a_o uncommanded_a act_n of_o worship_n that_o it_o be_v worship_n i_o think_v will_v not_o be_v deny_v kneel_v in_o prayer_n can_v be_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o act_n of_o external_a worship_n no_o more_o than_o this_o that_o it_o be_v uncommand_v we_o must_v believe_v till_o they_o show_v we_o a_o command_n for_o it_o they_o allege_v that_o kneel_v be_v unquestionable_a a_o fit_a gesture_n to_o express_v humility_n and_o adoration_n it_o can_v be_v unfit_a but_o needful_a in_o this_o case_n where_o both_o be_v require_v to_o this_o i_o reply_v humility_n be_v not_o fit_o express_v by_o kneel_v though_o adoration_n be_v and_o therefore_o we_o think_v kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v to_o be_v no_o fit_a gesture_n because_o adore_v however_o needful_a it_o be_v in_o the_o complex_fw-la action_n of_o communicate_v to_o wit_n before_o and_o after_o receive_v the_o element_n it_o be_v not_o the_o soul_n work_v in_o that_o act_n believe_v or_o covenant_v with_o god_n be_v the_o proper_a exercise_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o that_o act_n which_o be_v a_o solemn_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o this_o covenant_v be_v very_o unfit_o express_v by_o kneel_v he_o that_o be_v about_o solemn_a prayer_n or_o adoration_n which_o may_v be_v well_o express_v by_o kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v that_o sacrament_n do_v little_o know_v or_o consider_v the_o nature_n and_o use_n of_o it_o whence_o i_o form_n our_o argument_n thus_o that_o religious_a gesture_n which_o be_v neither_o