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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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for the vse of those great giftes which God hath bestowed vpon you that you woulde returne and pervse advisedlie all your five bookes compare them with the articles of our profession set out by publick authoritie and with the workes Apologeticall other authorised sermons homilies of our church and of the Reverend Fathers of our Lande and with the holie booke of God and all other the Queenes Maiesties proceedings and then read and examine with an indifferent equall minde a booke sett out in Latin called Querimonia Ecclesiae and an other in Englishe late come abroade speaking of Scotizing and Genevatising Allobrogicall Discipline and having maturelie with a iudicious cōscience in the feare of God pondered and wayed them in the ballance of trueth and iustice then tell vs roundlie and soothelie That if the Reverende Fathers of our church assisted with some of the approved divines of both Vniversies did reade peruse and examine your bookes and those two other bookes whether they would not iudge in their conscience and giue sentence with their mouthes that by those three writinges the Church of Englande and all other christian Churches are vndermined and that they are verie notable bellowes if Gods mercie stayed it not to blowe the coales of sedition and fierie civill warre betweene all christian Churches and to make all people who reade them to fall either flatly to Atheisme or backewarde to poperie when they shall see all godlie Ministers and christian churches by men of their owne side and profession to be so openlie traduced and notoriouslie detected and all the articles of our Religion many partes of our church government to be checked blamed or cōtradicted And might they not thinke that the Popes factors in Englande haue some intelligence with such writers Or is that new found discipline so neerlie seated with our English creed that such expert archers ayming at the one must needes hit the other Our last scruple and demaund is this seeing your bookes bee so long and tedious in a stile not vsuall and as wee verelie thinke the like harde to be found farre differing from the simplicitie of holie Scripture and nothing after the frame of the writinges of the Reverend and learned Fathers of our church as of Crammer Ridley Latimer Iewell Whitgeeft Fox Fulke c. And that your Prefaces and discourses before you come to the question are so longe mingled with all kinde of matters and sutes of learning and doctrine whether your meaning bee to shewe your selfe to bee some rare Demosthenes or extraordinarie Rabbi or some great Pythagoras that enioyne your schollars or your adversaries to fiue yeares silence before they can be perfect in your meaning or able to replye or that these men you write against bee not sounde in matters of fayth and therefore you handle all thinges or else you had no better way to make doubtfull the chief groundes of our faith and religion and that you would haue men better seene in Philosophie and schoolemens diuinitie and namelie in Aristotle or that you were afearde that if you had not handled it with so graue heroicall and loftie a maiestie you should haue bene reputed like some other man and so your same should haue bene but small or that you would wearie your aduersarie with such thicke and continuall fallinge strokes that hee should not bee able to stande before you to strike one blow against you or that you would beare downe the cause with swelling wordes of vanitie and cunningly framed sentences to blinde and intangle the simple or that you would shew your selfe another Aristotle by a certaine metaphisicall and crupticall method to bring men into a maze that they should rather wonder at your learning thē be able to vnderstand what you teach in your writinge Wee which stande for the defence of our English church highly commend R. H. bookes wee alleadge your opinions as well as wee can to stop the mouthes of foolish carpers Wee commend your books as very excellent and learnedly penned and not to be answered then they promptly aske your reasons and require of vs to shew by what arguments you maintaine those assertions then returne wee to your bookes wee seeke and beate our braynes but are hardely able by our meane capacitie to gather any thinge but as a man a farre of beholding a bryer tree all blowen ouer with his flowers with great desire approacheth neere vnto it and findeth himselfe deceaved so the delight of reading your booke is meruelous great but the fruit thereof howsoeuer it come to passe vnto vs that search and examine it is far vnlike the goodlie shew and appearance In the booke of that most learned and reuerend Father D. Withgift wee finde the question iudicially sett downe his aunswere to the matter in question sensible his reasons eyther from holy scripture from Fathers or new writers without all circumferences and crooked windings directly applied so as such poore men as wee be may beare away what hee saith and what hee intendeth but in your writing wee are mightely incombred wee walke as in a labyrinth and are suddenlie ouerwhelmed as in the deepe sea sometime it seemeth to vs that wee see great florishing of warlike and glittering weapons and to heare the lowde outcryes and noyce of them which pursue their enemies in battell thundring gunshott tossing of speares and ratling of harnesse yet cannot we perfectly perceaue any thinge almost rightly to touch the aduersarie pretended but rather as in our demandes before wee verely thinke doeth manifestly appeare most heauie stroakes poysoned pellettes and dangerous pushes of the pikes against the Ierusalem of God the holy Christian church of Englande whom you would seeme to defende Wee desire you therefore with all instancie that you would not denie vs three things First to shewe vnto vs what arguments you haue alleadged which are materiall and of waight which are not to bee found in the aunswere of that reuerend Father vnto Maister Carthwright and herein plainly to de clare which be your arguments or direct aunswers which are neither fine and close Ironies or blustring bitter scoffes begging of the question or peremptorie affirmations and how wee may knowe what is the state of the question and when you are in or out and what you holde in your conscience to bee the trueth in Gods sight howe great and large your fiue bookes would bee if you had vsed reasonable intelligible and logicall argumentes onely as other writers and disputers doe and had left out all needlesse wittie gloses and Rhetoricall shadowes in preambles discourses digressions amplifications and had kept your selfe out of the common iayle of sophisticall elenches and impertinent outleapes and had followed S. Peters prescript in a meeke reuerend and direct apollogie and defense proceeding from a good conscience Secondly that if you sett foorth your other bookes which are promised you would bee more playne and sensible and followe the vsuall language and stile of