conference vvhereby the ground of Protestants denying these bookes by S. Hieromes opinion as D. Doue hath witnessed is vtterly ouerthrowne D. Couell answereth p Couell against Burges pag. 85. 86. 87. 88. 89. 90. 91. the objections against Burges the Puritan in particuler as Catholikes doe and sheweth that these bookes haue vvithout cause beene accused of faults by Protestants only to denie them to be Canonicall as Catholikes hold He addeth further thus They are most true and might haue there concilement of other Scriptures And againe in these vvordes q Couell supr pag. 87. If Ruffinus be not deceiued they were approued as parts of the old Testament by the Apostles For when S. Hierome write so scornefully of the history of Susanna and the song of the three children he chargeth him therein to haue robbed the treasure of the holy Ghost and diuine instrument which the Apostles deliuered to the Churches And S. Hierome who is not vsually slowe to defend himselfe leaueth that point vnanswered pretending that what he had spoken was not as his owne opinion but what the Iewes objected And for his paines in translating the booke of Iudith vvhich the Protestants denie he giueth this reason because we reade that the Councell of Nice did reckon it in the number of holy Scriptures Hitherto D. Couels vvordes And much like vnto this of Ruffinus he citeth r pag. 76. 77. from S. Augustine S. Cyprian and others temporibus Apostolorum proximis in the next age to the Apostles Objection And if any man shall object against me that ſ Art 6. Syn. Lond. 1562. the sixt Article of the English Protestant religion excepteth against these bookes and leaueth them forth of the Canon of Scriptures t Answere I answere this proueth nothing but to proue their religion to be contradictory and vnpossible to be true For the bookes of Communion and Homilies as before authorized aswell by those Articles as the statute of Queene Elizabeth and the late Protestant Canons receiue cite and practise them for Canonicall Againe that sixt Article is contradictory to it selfe in this point and so of no authority by Protestants themselues for it only approueth for Canonicall Scriptures to vse the wordes of the Article u Articul 6. supr Those Canonicall bookes of the old and newe Testament of whose authority was neuer any doubt in the Church in the name of holy Scriptures these we vnderstand And yet these Protestants doe tell vs x Willet Synops q. 1. of Script pag. 2. 3. edit anno 1594. that all Scriptures haue beene doubted off by one Church or other But to contaynemy selfe vvithin my time of limitation I vvill only cite the Bishop of Winchester he writeth thus y B. Bilson suruey of Christs sufferings pag. 664. The Scriptures themselues were not fully receiued in all places no not in Eusebius time He saith the Epistle of Iames of Iude the second of Peter the second and third of Iohn are contradicted Thè Epistle to the Hebrewes was contradicted the Churches of Syria did not receiue the second Epistle of Peter nor the second and third of Iohn nor the Epistle of Iude nor the Apocalipse the like might be said for the Churches of Arabia Will you hence conclude that these parts of Scripture were not Apostolike or that we neede not receiue them nowe because they were formerly doubted off Hitherto B. Bilsons vvordes By which it both appeareth by Protestants howe their Article doth contradict it selfe And I may conclude vvith the Protestants before that all bookes which the Roman Church receiueth for Scripture be Canonicall and most holy Whereby it is too manifest what a grounded religion that Protestancy is which hath excluded so long time so many bookes of Scripture and so many Articles of faith prayer for the dead patronage of Saints and Angels prayers vnto them and the like And yet would pretend that their religion is only founded vpon the word of God in Scripture Chapter 5. The vulgar Latin translation of Scriptures vsed by the Roman Church is best the English Protestant translations are erroneous NEXT to the Canon and Text of Scriptures let vs entreate of their translations both as they are vsed in the Roman Church and the English Protestants And first concerning the vulgar Latin allowed among Catholikes D. Doue writeth thus a Doue perswasion p. 16 We Protestants graunt it fit that for vniformity in quotations of places in schooles and pulpits one Latin text should be vsed and we can be contented for the antiquity thereof to preferre the old vulgar translation before all other Latin bookes so much we doe yeeld to the Councell of Trent And D. Couell entreating of translations of Scripture against Burges the Puritan answereth in these wordes b Couell against Burges pag. 94. We are ready to confesse whether you vnderstand the Italian or that which goeth vnder the name of S. Hierome that they were vsed anciently in the Church a thousand and three hundred yeares agoe one of them by S. Augustine preferred before all the rest the other highly commended by Beza and that of the vulgar though with Pagnin and Driëdo we thinke it was not S. Hieromes but mixt yet we can be content to say as Isodore doth of it interpretatio eius this translation is to be preferred before others Hitherto his owne wordes And if M. Couell Doue and other Protestants well consider the judgement of the Councell of Trent in this question and the preface to the Bible of Xistus quintus they shall perceiue the intent of the holy Councell being only to approue that Latin translation vsed a thousand and three hundred yeares since in the Church as D. Couell telleth vs when it was in the flourishing and best estate and so to be reuerenced by Protestants judgement before and not to reject either the Greeke in the newe or Hebrewe Text of the old Testament Touching other translations D. Couell writeth c Couel supr pag. 94. No translation whatsoeuer is authenticall Scripture And D. Doue addeth d Doue persw pag. 16. All translations haue many faultes M. Burges in his Apologie writeth thus of the approued English Protestant translation e Burges Apolog pa. 93. in D. Couels answere It is a translation which hath many omissions many additions which some-times obscureth some-times peruerteth the sence being some-time senselesse some-times contrary And D. Couell in his answere acknowledgeth so farre faults in their translation that he requireth a better to be established The 22. Preachers of London write of the translation only in the communion booke in this manner f Petit. of 22. preachers except 11. against the com booke It contayneth in it diuers corrupt translations of Scriptures by leauing out of wordes putting too of wordes peruerting the meaning of the holy Ghost The Suruey of the booke of common prayer addeth g Suruey of the booke of com prayer pag. 160. There be many grosse
judgements on the Churcbes sleeue we answere with Salomon two are better then one For euen in matters of lesse moment it Eccles 4. v. 9 was neuer thought safe to neglect the judgement of many rashly to follow the fancy and opinion of some fewe And in another place thus he citeth D. Whitakers to the same purpose c Couell cont Burges p. 60. The Church of Christ according to her authority receiued from him hath warrant to approue the Scriptures to acknowledge to receiue to publish and command vnto her children M. Wotton witnesseth d Wotton defence of Perkins pa. 442. The judgement of the Church we are so farre from discrediting that we hold it for a very speciall ground in this matter of Scriptures M. Ormerods wordes be these e Ormerod pict pap pag. 93. The Church is called a piller because it is like vnto a piller For as a piller doth supporte and vnder-proppe a building maketh it more stable firme and strong so the Church doth sustaine and support the truth for the truth is no where preserued but in the Church D. Sutcliffe approueth this sentence f Sutcliffe against th◠three cōuers pag. 7◠Christes true Church is a diligent and wary keeper of doctrines committed to her and changeth nothing at any time diminisheth nothing addeth nothing superfluous looseth not her owne nor vsurpeth thinges belonging to others Neither is this different from their publike doctrine thus decreed in the twenty Article of their religion g Articul 20. 1562. The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies and authority in controuersies of faith And the joyning with this true Church of Christ is so needfull a thing that D. Field concludeth h Field p. 69. There is no saluation remission of sinnes or hope of eternall life out of the Church Like is the judgement of D. Couell i Couell def of Hooker pag. 76. and others Wherefore seing Catholikes professe themselues members of the Roman Church before they thinke of forsaking it let vs examine vvhether these Protestants vvill not allowe it for this true Church of Christ so dignified by their doctrine Chapter 2. The Roman Church euer was and still is by these Protestants the tru◠Church of Christ it continueth all thinges belonging to saluation they which liue and die therein may be saued THE Protestant Relator of religion vvriteth thus of the Roman Church a Relation of the state of religion ca. 48. There are amongst them vndoubtedly in great multitude men vertuous learned fraught with the loue of God and the truth aboue all thinges men of memorable integrity of bart affections b Cap. 6. In their sermons much matter both of faith and piety is eloquently deliuered by men of wonderfull zeale and spirit c Cap. 6. supr The outward state and glory of their seruice doth ingender quicken encrease and nourish the inward reuerence respect and deuotion which is due vnto soueraigne Majesty and power d Cap. 9. Their deedes of charity are exceeding e Cap. 22. 26. No seuerity of life comparable to some of their Religious If Protestants were or would be at vnion with them f Cap. 48. they shall find excellent order of gouernement singuler helpes for encrease of godlines deuotion for the conquering of sinne for the profiting of vertue And perswading an vnion he only requireth Catholikes to giue ouer fiue thinges al dispensable and not any of them essential as he teacheth And aduiseth Protestants to change their religion vnto vs with that condition Secondly we are assured that the highest authority of Christs Church is in the Roman Church or in none at all for D. Field writeth g Field p. 228 That the supreame binding and commanding authority is only in Bishops in a generall Councell so D. Morton h Mortō part 2. Apol. p. 340 D. Sutcliffe i Sutc. against D. Kellison p. 41. 42. 102 the Bishop of Winchester k B. Bilsons Suruey p. 85. and others But all men knowe and D. Sutcliffe with others acknowledge the Protestants haue had no such Councell so the Protestant Relator of religion teacheth e Relation of relig cap. 47. that this preeminence meanes and remedy is only in the Roman Church Secondly to make tryall by their publike definition of the Church The Protestant Articles teach f Articul 19. The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure worde of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly ministred according to Christes ordinance in all those thinges that of necessity are requisite to the same D. Couell g Couell defence of Hooker pag. 67. D. Field h Field p. 25. and D. Doue i D. Doue perswas pag. 23. be of the same minde But because the Puritans adde a third note I will cite D. Couell in this question his wordes be these k Couell against the plea of the Innoc. pag. 21. 56. There be but two essentiall notes of the Church the true preaching of the word and the right administration of the Sacraments to which later Protestants adde discipline the third note and of as much necessity And concerning doctrine and Sacraments they generally teach that they are truly taught and practised in the Church only in essentiall necessary requisite and fundamentall thinges so the l Articul 19. ninetenth Article before so M. Willet in these wordes m Willet Antilog pag. 43. To errours of doctrine which are not fundamentall euen the true Church of Christ is subject so D. Field n D. Field of the Church ordinarily in his bookes of the Church so D. Sutcliffe o Sutc. against D. Kellis p. 42 D. Doue p Doue persw pag. 31. 32. M. Wotton q Wottō p. 28 M. Middleton r Middleton pag. 201. Powell ſ Powel consideration c. and all the rest making Protestants and Puritans but one Church doe and must acknowledge Then concerning doctrine D. Doue writeth in these tearmes t Doue persw pag. 11. In fundamentall points of doctrine the greatest Papists in the world agree with vs. And in his vvhole Treatise neuer chargeth the Church of Rome either of Schisme or Heresie but laboureth to excuse themselues offering that we shall communicate with them without any change of opinion and yet he setteth downe this for an infallible proposition u page 5. This proposition is vndoubtedly true no Heretikes nor Schismatikes are to be communicated withall And he giueth vs security that by no possibility according to the former reason of generall Councels the Roman Church can be judged Hereticall his vvordes be these x page 14. No Church can be condemned and adjudged Hereticall by any priuate censure but it must be publike A generall Councell as he there expoundeth himselfe and is graunted before Touching Sacraments he alloweth y pag. 27. 28 that according to our definition of a
and dignity ouer all Churches in all parts of the world and neither by Councell Emperor or such Donation but by old custome and the institution of Christ And the same Church as before still continueth the true Church of Christ I hope it is no offence to agree with it in this as in other questions Chapter 4. All bookes receiued for Scripture by the Roman Church are Canonicall THus hauing by the directions sentence of Protestant writers of so late memory as this present is found out that the Roman Church is the spouse of Christ his true Church and piller of truth whose communion we must embrace followe her directions rest in her judgement liuing dying therein to haue eternal life the only and chiefest happynes which we can seeke or find And that the authority of the chiefe Bishops of that holy Apostolike See hath euer bin so soueraigne chiefe commanding and supreame as these men haue taught vs in the former Chapters we might here by D. Fields censure and aduise confine our selues and vvade no further in so many intricate controuersies of religion But to giue a finall contentment to all curiosities let vs briefly enter into a particuler-like examination of all principall Articles in question And first of Scriptures vvhose authority is either only or chiefest with Protestants D. Couell writeth in these wordes a Couell def of Hook p. 31 The Church of Rome teacheth no bad opinion to affirme that the Scriptures are holy diuine in themselues but so esteemed by vs for the authority of the Church And againe That the Scriptures are true we haue it from the Church And further thus b pag. 32. 33. supr The Church hath foure singuler offices towardes the Scripture First to be of them as it were a faithfull register Secondly to discerue and judge betweene false and adulterate and that which is true and perfect The third to publish and diuulge to proclayme as a cryer the true edict of our Lord him selfe The last is to be an Interpreter and in that following the safest rule to make an vndiuided vnity of the truth vncapable of contradiction to be a most faithfull expositor of his owne meaning And concludeth thus c page 34. supr We say that we are taught to receiue the word of God from the authority of the Church we see her judgement we heare her voice in humility subscribe vnto all this Hitherto be D. Couels wordes for the major proposition of my Syllogisme But the minor or second position that the Roman Church is the true Church of Christ is allowed and proued by Protestants before Therefore this Protestant argument must be thus concluded All bookes which the Church of Rome proposeth for Scriptures the expositions which shee deliuereth c. In humility we must subscribe vnto them receiue them as the word of God from her authority D. Doue referreth the question what bookes be Canonicall Scripture to the two Doctors S. Augustine and S. Hierome His vvordes be these d Doue perswas pag. 15. Catholikes proue them to be Canonicall out of S. Augustine We that they be Apocrypha out of S. Hierome both which Doctors are of no small authority with the Church of Rome and therefore in this we differ no more from them then S. Hierome did from S. Augustine Therefore I hope for many causes Protestants will giue place vnto vs in this question It is knowne S. Augustine in calling was aboue S. Hierome In learning D. Couell telleth you e Cou. against Burg. pag. 3. he was farre the most learned Doctor that euer was or shall be in all likely-hood Thirdly your publike Conference f Conference infr to be after cited hath answered S. Hieromes authority for Catholikes Fourthly S. Augustine speaketh in the name of the whole Church for these bookes his wordes be these g August tom 10. ser 191. We receiue the old and newe Testament in that number of bookes which the authority of the holy Catholike Church hath deliuered And in the place where he deliuereth the Canon of Scriptures as Catholikes nowe doe hee giueth these rules to him that vvould knowe vvhich bee true Scriptures his vvordes bee these h Tom. 3. lib. 2. doct Christ cap. 8. In Canonicall Scriptures let him followe the authority of the most Catholike Churches among which those be which haue deserued to haue Apostolike Sees and to receiue their Epistles And so proceeding too long to be cited concludeth by all his rules that all those bookes vvhich the Roman Church nowe receiueth there remembred by S. Augustine are Canonicall But to be briefe The Protestant Surueyor of the communion booke affirmeth plainely i Suruey of the booke of common prayer pag. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. that the Protestants of England must approue for Canonicall these bookes with the Roman Church So likewise doe the 22. Preachers of London in their Petition k Petit. of 22. preachers except against homilies and except 4. against the com booke And D. Field is of the same opinion or must be for thus he vvriteth l Field lib. 4. c. 23. pa. 245. The ancient and true beleeuing Iewes before the comming of Christ especially such as liued in Greece and nations out of Iury commonly called Hellenists receiued those bookes for Canonicall Scripture And to vse his vvordes Hence it came to passe that the Iewes deliuered a double Canon of Scripture to the Christian Churches And speaking againe of that volume of the Hellenists he addeth m page 246. These bookes joyned in one volume were translated out of Greeke into Latin and read by them of the Latin Church in that translation And entreating of S. Augustine and the Latin Fathers especially in Africke and the third Carthaginian Councell vvhere this Canon is receiued he vvriteth thus They reckon the bookes of Scripture according as they found them in vse in the Latin Church Then D. Field hath absolutely graunted that in the Latin Church vnder vvhich England is these Scriptures vvere euer esteemed for Canonicall And being translated as he acknowledgeth out of Greeke into Latin this Gretian vvill not easily persvvade but the Greeke Church also first embraced them for he saith thus n page 245. supr The Greeke Iewes or Hellenists deliuered this Canon to the Christian Churches then first to the Greeke Church being in Greece among them and best vnderstanding those Greeke Scriptures before they vvere translated into Latin The Protestant Conference at Hampton-Court entreating of the Protestant exceptions against these Scriptures vseth these wordes o Conference pag. 60. Most of the objections made against those bookes were the old cauils of the Iewes renewed by S. Hierome in his time who was the first that gaue them the name of Apocrypha which opinion vpon Ruffinus his challendge he after a sort disclaimed the rather because a generall offence was taken at his speaches in that kinde Hitherto the censure of that publike