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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04434	The svmme and svbstance of the conference which, it pleased his excellent Maiestie to haue with the lords, bishops, and other of his clergie, (at vvhich the most of the lordes of the councell were present) in his Maiesties priuy-chamber, at Hampton Court. Ianuary 14. 1603. / Contracted by VVilliam Barlovv, Doctor of Diuinity, and Deane of Chester. Whereunto are added, some copies, (scattered abroad,) vnsauory, and vntrue.	Barlow, William, d. 1613.	1604 (1604)	STC 1456.5; ESTC S100949	36,617	118

sayeth his Maiestie was best but where it might not bee had godly prayers and exhortations did much good That that may be done let it and let the rest that cannot bee tollerated Somewhat was here spoken by the Lord Chancelor of liuinges rather wanting learned men then learned men liuinges Many in the Vniuersities pining Maisters Batchelors and vpwardes wishing therefore that some might haue single coates before other had dublets here his L. shewed the course that hee had euer taken in bestowing the Kinges Benefices My Lord of London commending his Honourable care that way withall excepted that a dublet was necessary in cold weather the L. Chancelor replied that he did it not for dislike of the libertie of our Church in granting one man 2. benefices but out of his owne priuate purpose and practise groūded vpō the foresaid reason The last motion by my L. of London was that Pulpits might not be made Pasquilles wherein euery humorous or discontented fellow might traduce his superiours Which the King very gratiously accepted exceedingly reprouing that as a lewde custome threatning that if hee should but heare of such a one in a Pulpit hee would make him an example concluding with a sage admonition to the Opponents that euery man shoulde solicite and drawe his friendes to make peace and if anything were amisse in the Church officers not to make the Pulpit the place of personall reproofe but to let his Maiestie heare of it yet by degrees First let Complaint be to the Ordinarie of the place from him to goe to the Archbishoppe from him to the Lordes of his Maiesties Councell and from them if in all these places no remedie is founde to his owne selfe Which Caueat his Maiestie put in for that the Bishop of London had tolde him that if hee left himselfe open to admit of all complaints neither his Maiestie should euer bee quiet nor his vnder Officers regarded seeing that now alreadie no fault can bee censured but presently the Delinquent threatneth a complaint to the King and for an instance he added how a Printer whome hee had taken faulty very lately answered him in that very kinde D. Reyn. commeth now to Subscription which concerneth the fourth generall heade as hee first propounded it namely The Communion booke taking occasion to leape into it here as making the vrging of it to be a great impeachment to a learned Ministery therefore intreated it might not be exacted as heretofore for which many good men were kept out other remoued many disquieted To subscribe according to the statutes of the Realme namely to the Articles of Religion and the Kinges Supremacy they were not vnwilling The reason of their backwardnesse to subscribe otherwise was first the bookes Apocryphall which the Common Praier booke enioyned to bee reade in the Church albeit there are in some of those Chapters appointed manifest errors directly repugnāt to the scriptures the particular instance which hee then inferred was Eccles. 48. 10. where hee charged the author of that booke to haue held the same opinion with the Iewes at this day namely that Elias in person was to come before Christ and therefore as yet Christ by that reason not come in the flesh and so consequently it implyed a denial of the chief Article of our redemption his reason of thus charging the Authour was because that Ecclus. vsed the very wordes of Elias in person which the Prophet Malachy Chap. 4. doth apply to an Elias in resemblance which both an angell Luke 1. 17. and our Sauiour Christ Math. 11. did interprete to be Iohn Baptist. The answere was as the obiection twofold First generall for Apocrypha bookes The Bishop of London shewing first for the antiquitie of them that the most of the obiections made against those bookes were the old Cauils of the Iewes renewed by S. Hierome in his time who was the first that gaue them the name of Apocrypha which opinion vpon Ruffinus his chalenge hee after a sort disclaimed the rather because a generall offence was taken at his speeches in that kinde First for the continuāce of them in the Church out of Kimidoncius and Chemnitius two moderne writers The Bishoppe of Winton remembred the distinction of Saint Ierome Canonici sunt ad informandos mores non ad confirmandam fidem which distinction hee saide must be held for the iustifying of sundry Councels His Maiestie in the ende saide hee would take an euen order betweene both affirming that hee woulde not wish all Canonicall bookes to be read in the Church vnlesse there were one to interprete nor any Apocrypha at all wherein there was any error but for the other which were cleare correspondent to the scriptures he would haue them read for else sayeth his Maiestie why were they printed and therein shewed the vse of the Bookes of Machabees very good to make vp the story of the persecution of the Iewes but not to teach a man either to sacrifice for the dead or to kill himselfe And here his Highnesse arose from his chaire withdrew himself into his inner chamber a little space in the meane time a great questioning was amōgst the Lords about that place of Eccles. with which as if it had beene their rest and vpshot they beganne afresh at his Maiesties returne Who seeing them so to vrge it and stand vpon it calling for a Bible first shewed the author of that booke who hee was then the cause why hee wrote that booke next analyzed the Chapter it selfe shewing the precedentes and consequentes thereof lastly so exactly and diuinelike vnfolded the summe of that place arguing and demonstrating that whatsoeuer Ben Sirach had saide there of Elias Elias had in his owne person while hee liued performed and accomplished so that the Susurrus at the first mention was not so great as the astonishment was now at the King his so sodaine and sound and indeede so admirable an interpretation concluding first with a serious checke to Doctor Reynaldes that it was not good to impose vpon a man that was dead a sense neuer meant by him secondly with a pleasant Apostrophe to the Lordes What trowe yee makes these men so angry with Ecclesiasticus by my soule I thinke hee was a Bishoppe or else they would neuer vse him so But for the generall it was appointed by his Maiestie that Doctor Reyn. should note those chapters in the Apocrypha bookes where those offensiue places were and should bring them vnto the Lord Archshop of Canterburie against VVednesday next and so he was willed to goe on The next scruple against Subscription was that olde Crambe bis posita that in the Common Prayer booke it is twise set downe Iesus saide to his Disciples when as by the text originall it is plaine that he spake to the Pharisies To which it was aunswered that for ought that coulde appeare by the places hee might speake aswell to his Disciples they beeing present as to the Pharisees But his

shewed but that it was an Institution Apostolicall and one of the particular pointes of the Apostles Catechisme set downe and named in expresse wordes Hebr. 6. 2. and so did M. Caluin expound that very place who wished earnestly the restitution thereof in those reformed Churches where it had beene abolished Vpon which place the Bishop of Carlell also insisted and vrged it both grauely and learnedly His Maiestie called for the Bible read the place of the Hebrewes and approued the exposition Something also the Bishop of Durham noted out of the Gospell of S. Mathew for the imposition of handes vppon children The conclusion was for the fuller explanation that wee make it not a Sacrament or a corroboration to a former Sacrament that it should bee considered of by their Lordshippes whether it might not without alteration whereof his Maiestie was still very wary bee intituled an Examination with a Confirmation Next in order was the point of Absolution which the Lord Archbishop cleared from all abuse or superstition as it is vsed in our Church of England reading vnto his Maiestie both the Confession in the beginning of the Communion book and the Absolution following it wherein saith he the Minister doth nothing else but pronounce an Absolution in generall His Highnesse perused them both in the booke it selfe liking and approuing them finding it to be very true which my Lord Archbishop said but the Bishop of London stepping forward added it becōmeth vs to deale plainely with your Maiestie there is also in the Communion booke another more particular and personall forme of Absolution prescribed to be vsed in the order for the Visitation of the sicke this the King required to see and whilest Maister Deane of the Chappell was turning to it the sayd Bishop aledged that not onely the confessions of Augustia Boheme Saxon which he there cited doe retaine and allow it but that Maister Caluin did also approue such a generall kinde of Confession and Absolution as the Church of England vseth and withall did very well like of those which are priuate for so hee termes them The sayd particular Absolution in the Common prayer booke beeing read his Maiestie exceedingly well approued it adding that it was Apostolicall and a very godly ordinance in that it was giuen in the name of Christ to one that desired it and vpon the clearing of his conscience The conclusion was that it should be consulted of by the Bishops whether vnto the Rubrike of the generall Absolution these wordes Remission of sinnes might not be added for explanation sake In the third place the Lord Archbishop proceeded to speake of Priuate Baptisme shewing his Maiestie that the administration of Baptisme by women and Lay-persons was not allowed in the practise of the Church but enquired of by Bishoppes in their Visitations and censured neither doe the wordes in the booke inferre any such meaning whereunto the King excepted vrging and pressing the wordes of the Booke that they could not but intend a permission and suffering of women and priuate persons to baptize Here the Bishoppe of Worcester said that indeed the wordes were doubtfull and might bee pressed to that meaning but yet it seemed by the contrarie practise of our Church censuring women in this case that the compilers of the Booke did not so intend them and yet propounded them ambiguously because otherwise perhaps the Booke would not haue then passed in the Parliament and for this coniecture as I remember he cited the testimony of my Lord Archbishoppe of Yorke whereunto the Bishop of London replyed that those learned and reuerend men who framed the Booke of Common Prayer entended not by ambiguous termes to deceiue any but did indeede by those wordes entend a permission of priuate persons to baptize in case of necessitie whereof their letters were witnesses some partes whereof hee then read and withall declared that the same was agreeable to the practise of the auncient Church vrging to that purpose both Actes 2. where 3000. were baptized in one day which for the Apostles alone to doe was impossible at least improbable and besides the Apostles there were then no Bishoppes or Priestes And also thee authoritie of Tertullian and Saint Ambrose in the fourth to the Ephesians plaine in that point laying also open the absurdities and impieties of their opinion who thinke there is no necessitie of Baptisme which word Necessitie he so pressed not as if God without Baptisme could not saue the child but the case put that the state of the Infant dying vnbaptized being vncertaine and to God only known but if it dye baptized there is an euident assurance that it is saued who is hee that hauing any Religion in him would not speedily by any meanes procure his Child to be baptized and rather ground his action vpon Christs promise then his omission thereof vppon Gods secret iudgement His Maiestie replied first to that place of the Actes that it was an Acte extraordinary neither is it sound reasoning from thinges done before a Church bee setled and grounded vnto those which are to be performed in a Church stablished and flourishing That hee also maintained the necessitie of Baptisme and alwayes thought that the place of Saint Iohn Nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua c. was ment of the Sacrament of Baptisme and that hee had so defenced it against some Ministers in Scotland and it may seeme strange to you my Lords saith his Maiestie that I who now think you in England giue too much to Baptism did 14. moneths ago in Scotland argue with my Diuines there for ascribing too litle to that holy Sacrament In somuch that a pert Minister asked me if I thought Baptism so necessary that if it were omitted the child should be damned I answered him no but if you being called to baptize the child though priuately should refuse to come I think you shall be damned But this necessitie of Baptisme his Maiestie so expounded that it was necessarie to be had where it might be lawfully had id est ministred by lawfull Ministers by whom alone by no priuate person hee thought it might not in any case be administred and yet vtterly disliked all rebaptization although either women or Laikes had baptized Heere the Bishop of VVinchester spake very learnedly and earnestly in that point affirming that the denying of priuate persons in cases of necessitie to baptize were to crosse all antiquitie seeing that it had bene the ancient and common practize of the Church When Ministers at such times could not be got and that it was also a rule agreed vpon among Diuines that the Minister is not of the Essence of the Sacrament His Maiestie answered though hee be not of the Essence of the Sacrament yet is he of the Essence of the right and lawfull ministrie of the Sacrament taking for his ground the commission of Christ to his Disciples Mat. 28. 20. Go preach and baptize The issue was a consultation whether into the

againe in the same paragraph for those vvords Then they minister it it should be The Curate or lawfull Minister present shall doe it on this fashion Concluding very grauely that in this Conference he aimed at three thinges principally 1. The setting downe of wordes fit and conuenient 2. Contriuing howe thinges might be best done without apparance of alteration 3. Practise that each man may doe his dutie in his place After this his Maiestie fell into discourse about the High Commission wherin hee sayd that hee vnderstood howe the parties named therein were too many too meane that the matters they dealt in were base and such as Ordinaries at home in their Courts might censure that the braunches graunted out to the Bishops in their seuerall Diocesses were too frequent and large To which my Lords Grace aunswered seuerally 1. for the number it was requisite it should bee great for otherwise he must bee forced as oft times now it fell out to sit alone because that albeit all the Lordes of the Priuy Councell were in all the Bishoppes many of the Iudges at law some of the Clearkes of the Councell yet very few or none of thē sitting with him at ordinary times some of meaner place as Deanes and Doctors of Diuinity and Law must needes bee put in whose attendance his Grace might with more authoritie commaund and expect 2. For the matters handled therein he sayd that he often times had complained thereof but sawe that it could not bee remedied because that the fault may be of that nature as that the ordinary iurisdiction might censure it but eftsoones it fals out that the party delinquent is too great and so the Ordinary dare not proceed against him or so mightie in his state or so wilfull in his contumacy that hee will not obey the summons or censure and so the Ordinary is forced to craue helpe at the high Cōmission To the third his Grace saide that it concerned not him to make aunswere thereunto for such Commissions haue beene graunted against his will oftentimes and without his knowledge for the most part My Lord Chancelor therefore offered it to his Maiesties wisedome to consider if such Commissions should not be granted to any Bishop but such as haue the largest Diocesses which his Maiesty well approued added withall and those Bishops who haue in their Diocesses the most troublesome and refractary persons either Papistes or Puritanes but of this as also of the other things found fault with therein hee willed those to consult to whom should bee appointed the reuiew of the Commission And here that point had ended but that one of the Lordes I thinke verily rather vppon misinformation then set purpose pleased to say that the proceeding thereby was like vnto the Spanish Inquisition wherein mē were vrged to subscribe more then law required that by the oath ex officio they were inforced to accuse themselues that they were examined vppon 20. or 24. Articles vpon the sodaine without deliberation and for the most part against themselues for the euidence thereof a letter was shewed of an ancient Honourable Councelor written to the Lord Archbishop Anno 1584. of two ministers in Cambridgeshire then or there aboutes examined vpon many Articles and in the end depriued The Lord Archbishop aunswered 1. to the matter that in the manner of proceeding and examining his Lordship was deceiued for if any Article did touch the party any way either for life liberty or scandall he might refuse to aunswere neither was hee vrged thereunto 2. to the letter being in a cause twenty yeares since determined he could not aunswere the particulars but if his aunswere to that letter were found out he doubted not but as it did satisfie that Honourable Councelour when hee liued so it would also sufficiently cleare this complaint before his Maiestie My Lord of London for the matter of Subscription shewed his Highnes the 3. Articles which the Church-men of England are to approue by subscribing namely the Kinges Supremacy the Articles of Religion and the Booke of Common Prayer Al which it pleased his Maiestie himself to read and after a little glaunce giuen that the mention of the Oath ex officio came in before his due time he dilated 1. how necessary Subscription was in euery well gouerned Church that it was to bee vrged for the keeping of Peace for as laws to preuent killing did prouide there should bee no quareling so to preuent greater tumults in the Church Subscription was requisite 2. because the Bishop is to aunswere for euery minister whome he admitteth into his Diocesse it were fittest for him to know the affection of the party before his admittance the best way to know him and to preuēt future factions was to vrge his Subscription at his first entrance for Turpius eiicitur quā non admittitur hospes 3 as Subscription was a good meanes to discerne the affection of persons vvhether quiet or turbulent withal it was the principall way to auoid confusion concluding that if any after things were well ordered would not be quiet and shew his obedience the Church were better without him hee were worthy to be hanged Praestat vt pereat vnus quam vnitas Touching the Oath Ex officio the L. Chancelor and after him the L. Treasurer spake both for the necessity and vse therof in diuerse Courtes and cases But his excellent Maiestie preuenting that olde allegation Nemo cogitur detegere suā turpitudinem saide that the Ciuil proceedings onely punished factes but in Courts Ecclesiasticall it vvas requisite that Fame Scandales should be looked vnto That here was necessary the Oath Compurgatorie the Oath ex officio too yet great moderation should be vsed 1. in grauioribus criminibus and 2. in such whereof there is a publike fame 3. in distinguishing of publike Fame either caused by the inordinate demeanor of the offendor or raised by the vndiscreet proceeding in triall of the fact as namely in Scotland where the lying with a wench though done priuately and knowne or scarse suspected by two or three persons before was made openly knowne to the King to the Queene to the Prince to many hundreds in the Court by bringing the parties to the stoole of Repentance and yet perhaps be but a suspition onely And here his Maiestie so soundly described the Oath ex officio First for the ground thereof Secondly the Wisedome of the Lawe therein Thirdly the manner of proceeding thereby and the necessary and profitable effect thereof in such a compendious but absolute order that all the Lords and the rest of the present Auditors stood amazed at it the Archbishop of Canterbury said that vndoubtedly his Maiestie spake by the speciall assistance of Gods spirite The Bishop of London vpon his knee protested that his heart melted within him and so he doubted not did the heartes of the whole Company with ioy and made hast to acknowledge vnto almighty God the singular mercy wee haue receiued

the Lords he sate downe in his chaire remoued forward from the cloth of State a prettie distance where beginning with a most graue and princely declaration of his generall drift in calling this assembly no nouell deuise but according to the example of all Christian Princes who in the commencement of their raigne vsually take the first course for the establishing of the Church both for doctrine and policie to which the verie Heathens themselues had relation in their prouerbe A Ioue Principium and particularly in this land King Henry the eight toward the ende of his raigne after him King Edward the 6 who altered more after him Queene Marie who reuersed all and the last Queene of famous memory so his highnesse added for it is worth the noting that his Maiestie neuer remembreth her but with some honourable addition who setled it as now it standeth wherein hee sayd that he vvas happier then they in this because they were faine to alter all thinges they found established but he saw yet no cause so much to alter and chaunge any thing as to confirme that which he found well setled already which state as it seemed so affected his royal hart that it pleased him both to enter into a gratulation to almightie God at which wordes hee put off his hat for bringing him into the promised land where Religion was purely professed where he sate among graue learned and reuerend men not as before else where a King without state without honor without order where beardlesse boyes would braue him to his face and to assure vs that he called not this assembly for any Innouation acknowledging the gouernement Ecclesiasticall as now it is to haue beene approued by manifold blessings from God himselfe both for the encrease of the Gospell and vvith a most happie and glorious peace Yet because nothing could be so absolutely ordered but something might bee added afterward thereunto and in any state as in the body of man corruptions might insensibly grow either through time or persons and in that hee had receiued many complaintes since his first entrance into the kingdome especially through the dissentions in the Church of many disorders as he heard and much disobedience to the lawes with a great falling away to Popery his purpose therefore was like a good Physition to examine trie the complaintes and fully to remoue the occasions thereof if they proue scandalous or to cure them if they were daungerous or if but friuolous yet to take knowledge of them thereby to cast a sop into Cerberus his mouth that hee may neuer barke againe his meaning beeing as hee pleased to professe to giue factious spirites no occasion hereby of boasting or glory for which cause hee had called the Bishops in seuerally by themselues not to be confronted by the contrary opponents that if any thing should be found meete to be redressed it might be done which his Maiestie twise or thrise as occasion serued reiterated without any visible alteration And this was the summe so farre as my dull head could conceiue and carry it of his Maiesties generall speech In particular he signified vnto them the principall matters why hee called them alone with vvhome hee vvould consult about some speciall pointes wherein himselfe desired to bee satisfied these hee reduced to three heades First concerning the Booke of Common Prayer and Diuine Seruice vsed in this Church Second Excommunication in the Ecclesiasticall Courtes Third the Prouiding of fit and able Minister s for Ireland In the booke he required satisfaction about three thinges First about Confirmation first for the name if arguing a confirming of Baptisme as if this Sacrament without it were of no validity then were it blasphemous Secondly for the vse first brought vpon this occasion Infants being baptized and aunswering by their Patrini it was necessarie they should bee examined when they came to yeares of discretion and after their profession made by themselues to be confirmed with a blessing or prayer of the Bishop laying his handes vpon their heades abhorring the abuse in Popery where it was made a sacrament and a corroboration to Baptisme The second was for Absolution vvhich how we vsed it in our Church hee knewe not hee had heard it likened to the Popes pardons but his Maiesties opinion was that there being onely two kindes thereof from God the one generall the other particular for the first all prayers and preaching do import an Absolution for the second it is to bee applied to speciall parties who hauing committed a scandall and repenting are absolued otherwise where there precedes not either excommunication or pennance there needs no absolution The third was Priuate Baptisme if priuate for place his Maiestie thought it agreed with the vse of the primitiue church if for persons that any but a Lawfull Minister might baptize any where he vtterly disliked and in this point his Highnesse grew somewhat earnest against the baptizing by women and Laikes The second head was Excommunication wherein hee offered two thinges to bee considered of first the matter second the person In the matter first whether it were executed as it is complained in light causes second whether it were not vsed too often In the Persons first why Lay men as Chancelors Commissaries should do it second why the Bishops themselues for the more dignitie to so high and waightie a censure should not take vpon them for their assistantes the Deane and Chapter or other ministers and Chaplaines of grauitie and account and so likewise in other Censures and giuing of orders c. The last for Ireland his Maiestie referred as you shall in the last daies conference heare to a consulation His Highnesse to whome I offer great wrong in beeing as Phocion to Demosthenes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the hatchet to cut short so admirable a speech hauing ended the Lord Archbishop after that on his knee he had signified hovve much this Whole land was bound to God for setting ouer vs a King so wise learned and iudicious addressed himselfe to enforme his Maiestie of all these pointes in their seuerall order And first as touching Confirmation hee shewed at large the antiquitie of it as being vsed in the Catholike Church euer since the Apostles time till that of late some particular Churches had vnaduisedly reiected it Then hee declared the lawfull vse of it agreeable to his Maiesties former speech affirming it to bee a meere calumniation and a very vntrue suggestion if any had informed his Highnesse that the Church of England did holde or teach that without Confirmation Baptisme was vnperfect or that it did adde any thing to the vertue and strength thereof And this hee made manifest by the Rubrikes in the Communion booke set before Confirmation which were there read My Lord of London succeeded saying that the authoritie of Confirmation did not depend onely vpon the Antiquitie and practise of the Primitiue Church which out of Cyprian Ep. 73. and Hierom. aduersus Luciferian hee

to the Statute I. Elizab. to speake so freely against the Leiturgie Discipline established Lastly forasmuch as that hee perceiued they tooke a course tending to the vtter ouerthrowe of the orders of the Church thus long continued hee desired to knowe the ende which they aimed at alledging a place out of M. Cartwright affirming that we ought rather to conforme our selues in orders and Ceremonies to the fashion of the Turkes then to the Papists which Position hee doubted they approued because contrary to the orders of the Vniuersities they appeared before his Maiestie in Turky gownes not in their Scholasticall habites sorting to their degrees His Maiestie obseruing my Lord of London to speake in some passion saide that there was in it something which hee might excuse something that hee did mislike excuse his passion hee might thinking he had iust cause to bee so moued both in respect that they did thus traduce the present well setled Church gouernement and also did proceede in so indirect a course contrary to their owne pretence and the intent of that meeting also yet hee misliked his sudden interruption of D. Reyn. whome he should haue suffered to haue taken his course and libertie concluding that there is no order nor can be any effectuall issue of disputation if each partie might not bee suffered without chopping to speake at large what hee would And therefore willed that either the Doctors should proceed or that the Bishoppe would frame his aunswere to these motions alreadie made although saith his Maiestie some of them are verie needlesse It was thought fitter to aunswere least the number of obiections encreasing the aunsweres would proue confused Vpon the first motion Concerning falling from Grace The Bishop of London tooke occasion to signifie to his Maiestie how very many in these dayes neglecting holinesse of life presumed too much of persisting in Grace laying all their Religion vpon Predestination If I shall bee saued I shall be saued which hee termed a desperate doctrine shewing it to bee contrarie to good Diuinitie and the true doctrine of Predestination whereein we should reason rather ascendendo then descendendo thus I liue in obedience to God in loue with my neighbour I follow my vocation c therefore I trust that God hath elected me predestinated mee to Saluation not thus which is the vsuall course of argument God hath Predestinated and chosen mee to life therefore though I sin neuer so grieuously yet I shall not be damned for whome he once loueth he loueth to the ende VVhereupon hee shewed his Maiestie out of the next article what was the doctrine of the Church of England touching Predestination in the verie last Paragraph scilicet We must receiue Gods promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to vs in holy scripture and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which wee haue expressely declared vnto vs in the word of God which parte of the said Article his Maiestie verie well approued and after hee had after his maner very singularly discoursed vpon that place of Paul worke out your saluation with feare and trembling he left it to bee considered whether any thing were meete to bee added for the clearing of the Doctor his doubt by putting in the worde often or the like as thus We may often depart from Grace but in the meane time wished that the doctrine of Predestination might bee verie tenderly handled and with great discretion least on the one side Gods omnipotency might be called in question by impeaching the doctrine of his eternall predestination or on the other a desperate presumption might be arreared by inferring the necessary certaintie of standing and persisting in grace To the second it was aunswered that it was a vaine obiection because by the doctrine and practise of the Church of England none but a licensed minister might preach nor either publikely or priuately administer the Eucharist or the Lords Supper And as for priuate Baptisme his Maiestie answered that hee had taken order for that with the Bishops already In the third point which was about Confirmation was obserued either a curiosity or malice because the Article which was there presently read in those wordes These fiue commonly called Sacraments that is to say Confirmation Pennance Orders c. are not to be accounted for Sacraments of the Gospell being such as haue growne partly of the corrupt following the Apostles c. insinuateth that the making of Confirmation to be a Sacrament is a corrupt imitation but the Communion Booke aiming at the right vse and proper sourse thereof makes it to bee according to the Apostles example which his Maiestie obseruing and reading both the places concluded the obiection to be a meere Cauil And this was for the pretended contradiction Now for the ground thereof the Bishoppe of London added that it was not so much founded vpon the places in the Acts of the Apostles which some of the Fathers had often shewed but vpon Heb 6. 2. where it is made as the first day hee had saide a parte of the Apostles Catechisme which was the opinion besides the iudgement of the holy Fathers of M. Caluin and D. Fulke the one vpon Heb. 6. 2. as vpon Saturday he had declared the other vpon Act. 8. verse 27. where with saint Augustine he saith that we do not in any wise mislike that auncient Ceremonie of imposition of hands for strengthening and confirming such as had beene baptized but vse it our selues beeing nothing else but as S. Austen affirmeth Prayer ouer a man to bee strengthened and confirmed by the holy Ghost or to receiue increase of the giftes of the holy Ghost as S. Ambrose saith and a little after alludeth vnto Heb. 6. 2. c. Neither neede there any great proofe of this saith my Lord. For Confirmation to be vnlawfull it was not their opinion vvho obiected this as hee supposed this was it that vexed them that they had not the vse thereof in their owne handes euery Pastor in his Parish to confirme for then it would bee accounted an Apostolicall institution and willed D. Reyn. to speake herein what he thought who seemed to yeeld thereunto replying that some Diocesse of a Bishoppe hauing therein 600. parish Churches which number caused the Bishop of London to thinke himselfe personally touched because in his Diocesse there are 609. or thereabouts it was a thing verie inconuenient to commit Confirmation vnto the Bishop alone supposing it impossible that he could take due examination of them all which came to be confirmed To the fact my Lord of London aunswered for his Maiesties information that the Bishops in their Visitations giue out notice to them who are desirous either to be themselues or to haue their children confirmed of the place where they will bee and appoint either their Chapleines or some other Ministers to examine them which are to bee cōfirmed and lightly confirme none but either by the testimonie or report of the

any Then hee desireth that according to certaine Prouincial Constitutions they of the Clergy might haue meetinges once euery three weekes first in Rurall Deanries and therein to haue Prophecying according as the Reuerend Father Archbishoppe Grindal and other Bishops desired of her late Maiestie 2. that such things as could not be resolued vpon there might bee referred to the Archdeacons Uisitation and so 3. from thence to the Episcopall Synode where the Bishoppe with his Presbyteri should determine all such pointes as before could not be decided At which speech his Maiestie was somewhat stirred yet which is admirable in him without passion or shewe thereof thinking that they aymed at a Scottish Presbytery which saith hee as well agreeth with a Monarchy as God and the Diuell Then Iack and Tom and Will and Dick shall meete and at their pleasures censure me and my Councell and all our proceedings Then VVill shall stand vp and say it must bee thus then Dick shall reply and say nay mary but wee will haue it thus And therefore here I must once reiterate my former speech Le Roy s'auisera Stay I pray you for one seauen yeares before you demaunde that of mee and if then you finde mee purseye and fat and my winde pipes stuffed I will perhaps hearken to you for let that gouernment bee once vp I am sure I shall bee kept in breath then shall wee all of vs haue worke enough both our hands full But Doctor Reyn. til you finde that I grow lazy let that alone And here because D. Reyn. had twise before obtruded the Kings Supremacie 1. In the Article concerning the Pope 2. in the point of Subscription his Maiestie at those times saide nothing but now growing to an end he saide I shall speake of one matter more yet somewhat out of order but it skilleth not Doctor Rein. quoth the K. you haue often spoken for my Supremacie and it is well but knowe you any here or any elsewhere who like of the present Gouernement Ecclesiasticall that finde fault or dislike my Supremacie D. Rein. saide no why then saith his Maiestie I will tell you a tale After that the Religion restored by King Edwarde the sixt was soone ouerthrowne by the succession of Queene Marie here in England wee in Scotland felt the effect of it Whereupon Mas. Knoxe writes to the Queene Regent of whome without flattery I may say that she was a vertuous and moderate Lady telling her that she was Supreme head of the Church and charged her as shee would aunswere it before Gods Tribunall to take care of Christ his Euangil and of suppressing the Popish Prelates who vvithstoode the same But how long trovv yee did this continue euen so long till by her authority the popish Bishops were repressed hee himselfe and his adherents vvere brought in and well setled and by these meanes made strong enough to vndertake the matters of Reformation thēselues Then loe they began to make small account of her Supremacy nor vvould longer rest vpon her authoritie but tooke the cause into their ovvne hand according to that more light wherewith they were illuminated made a further reformation of Religion How they vsed that poore Lady my mother is not vnknowne and vvith griefe I may remember it vvho because shee had not beene otherwise instructed did desire only a priuate Chappell vvherein to serue God after her manner with some few selected persons but her Supremacy was not sufficient to obtaine it at their hands And howe they dealt with me in my Minoritie you all know it was not done secretly thogh I would I cannot conceale it I will apply it thus And then putting his hand to his hat his Maiestie saide my Lordes the Bishops I may thanke you that these men doe thus pleade for my Supremacie They thinke they cannot make their party good against you but by appealing vnto it as if you or some that adhere vnto you were not well affected towardes it But if once you were out and they in place I knowe what would become of my Supremacie No Bishop no King as before I sayd Neither doe I thus speake at randon without ground for I haue obserued since my comming into England that some Preachers before me can be content to pray for Iames King of England Scotland Fraunce and Ireland defendor of the faith but as for Supreme Gouernour in all causes and ouerall persons as well Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill they passe that ouer with silence what out they haue beene of I after learned After this asking them if they had any more to obiect and D. Reyn. aunswering Noe his Maiestie appointed the next Wednesday for both parties to meete before him and rising from his Chaire as hee was going to his inner Chamber If this bee all quoth he that they haue to say I shall make thē conforme themselues or I will harrie them out of the land or else do worse And this was the Summe of the second dayes Conference which raised such an admiration in the Lordes in respect of the King his singular readinesse and exact knowledge that one of them sayde hee was fully perswaded his Maiestie spake by the instinct of the spirite of God My L. Cecill acknowledged that very much we are bound to God who had giuen vs a King of an vnderstanding heart My Lord Chancelor passing out of the Priuy-Chamber said vnto the Deane of Chester standing by the dore I haue often hearde and read that Rex est mixta persona cum sacerdote but I neuer saw the truth thereof till this day Surely whosoeuer heard his Maiesty might iustly thinke that title did more properly fitte him which Eunapius gaue to that famous Rhetoritian in saying that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Liuing Library and a walking Study Finis secundae diei THE THIRD DAYES Conference VPon Wednesday Ianuary 18. all the Bishops afore named attended at the Court and the Deanes who were all called into the Priuie Chamber and who so else my Lord Archbishop appointed for such was his Maiesties pleasure whereuppon the Knightes and Doctors of the Arches viz. Sir Daniel Dunne Sir Thomas Crompton Sir Richard Swale Sir Iohn Bennet and D. Drury entred As soone as the King was set the Lord Archbishoppe presented vnto him a note of those points which his Maiesty had referred to their consideration vpon the first day and the alteration or rather explanation of them in our Liturgie 1. Absolution or Remission of sinnes in the Rubrike of Absolution 2. In priuate Baptisme the lawfull Minister present 3. Examination with Confirmation of Children 4. Iesus sayd to them twise to bee put into the Dominicall Gospels in stead of Iesus sayd to his Disciples His Maiestie here taking the Common Prayer Booke and turning to Priuate Baptisme willed that where the wordes were in the Rubrike the second Paragraph They Baptize not Children Novv it should be thus read They cause not Children to be baptized and