further perswaded touching the unlawfulness of those things than themselves they refused that also Now I would fain know of this Epistler whether he do not think Doctor Reynolds was one of those Most and whether he do not see that such men as he were ashamed the King should know that any of the Nonconformists to whom they wisht well were so weak as to call the things in difference simply evil N.C. I think you had best dismiss this man What say you to the Arguments in the Book it self C. Where shall we find them There are strains of railing Rhetorick ill applied similitudes which are the common way of deceiving abused Scriptures loose inconsequent-reasonings in a word no arguments that do not prove a great deal too much N.C. Methinks there is something in that p. 4. That it is impossible for a man to keep up his heart so much as in a tollerable posture of Devotion reverence and attention to such Prayers as having been fram'd by men and those no more excellent than their neighbours are grown familiar to us and can be said by roat beforehand we having heard them a thousand times already C. Nothing at all For by whom are their Prayers framed Are they Angels or glorified Saints in the Church Triumphant that must not have the name of Men Or dare they say the Spirit frames them And do they not repeat for ever the same phrases only not put together always in the same Order How many thousand times have you heard them beg that they might prize Christ more and Ordinances more and Sabbaths more and a number of such like things as these And besides all this what say you to the Psalms of David Could no man anciently joyn devoutly in singing them because they were so often repeated and so well known that the Jews had them by heart N.C. I cannot tell But God himself he saith judges it necessary to consult his glory I mean a Religious awe reverence and esteem to his counsels and works from men by concealing the one and the other till the time of their bringing forth that so they may come fresh and new to them VVhat say you to that C. I say he doth not write sense for it is as if he had told us that God doth not reveal his Counsels till he reveal them N.C. But you may guess at his meaning that God keeps secret what he intends to do till he bring it to pass C. That 's false For he foretold many things by the Prophets But were it altogether true it 's nothing to the purpose For though he surprizes us sometimes with events we never thought of and could not foresee and will not always ways let us know what be intends to do yet he doth not judg it necessary to conceal his will concerning that which we are to do No quite contrary He judges it necessary to declare it and hath made no new Declaration since the Apostles times And yet we may have a Religious reverence sure to his Counsels revealed in his Word though they come not fresh and new to us If we cannot all that I have to say is that then the same Exception lyes against them which you bring against the Common-Prayer Nor are your own Prayers so fresh and new as he pretends but we know beforehand the most you have to say only you have some new invented Words and Phrases which sometimes give us just disgust N.C. Doth not our Saviour say Mat. 13.52 that every Scribe every Teacher instructed to the Kingdom of Heaven i.e. meetly qualified for the work of the Ministry of the Gospel is like to a man that brings forth out of his Treasures things new and old C. What of all that N.C. Doubtless our Saviour spoke it upon this Account as he tells you C. Doubtless he was full of fancy as well as the rest of his Brethren which laid hold of every thing without any reason if it would but make a shew and serve to countenance their wild opinions Else he would have easily seen that our Lord speaks of his Apostles and Evangelists who were furnish'd with abilities to propagate the Gospel both by their knowledg in the Old Revelations in the ancient Scriptures and in the new which he made unto them N. C. But the Liturgy smells rank of the Popish Mass-Book which alone is sufficient to make it the abhorring of their souls that understand any thing of the severity of the Divine jealousie c. pag. 5. C. The old N. C. were not affrighted with such terrible Nothings as these But told our English Donatists the Brownists who objected this That it was more proper to say the Mass-Book was added to our Common-Prayer than that our Common-Prayer was taken out of the Mass-Book For most things in our Common-Prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church long before this Mass-Book you talk of was heard of in the world The Mass was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgies of the Church now one piece then another And if a true man may challenge his goods wheresoever he finds them which the thief hath drawn into his Den then the Church of God may lawfully lay claim to those holy things which the Church of Rome hath usurped and snatch them away from among the trash wherewith they are mingled A great deal more to the same purpose you may find in Mr. John Ball * Answer to two Treatises of Mr. John Can. 1642. part 2. pag. 9. which I cannot now stand to tell you The sum is this That Popery is a Scab or Leprosie that cleaves to the Church It mostly stands in erroneous faulty gross and abominable superstructures upon the true Foundation whereby they poyson or overthrow the foundation it self But take away the superstructures and the foundation remains Remove the Leprosie and the man is sound N. C. You talk of Liturgies in the ancient Church We read of none in the Apostles time C. True But as the same person ingenuously confesses ** Ib. part 2. p. 17. they might be though we read nothing of them For the Apostles have not set down a Catalogue of all and every particular Order that was in the Church However a set form of Prayer to be used in publick meetings is not unlawful because it is of the number of things which God hath not determined in his Word c. And as to call that Holy which God hath not commanded is Superstitious so it is erroneous to condemn that as unholy or prophane which God allows or is consonant to his Word though not precisely commanded N. C. It is a common opinion that the Liturgy is a novel Invention in the dayes of blindness and laziness in favour of Idle and debauched Priests C. You are all as learned as the Prefacer to your Book But you might be more truly learned if you would read the Author now mention'd who tells you that though it 's hard to
flock committed to their trust From whom notwithstanding the People of Israel were not to withdraw nor to renounce all communion with them and obedience to them But besides this I would have you know that if there be any Ministers among us that are but like Idols and Images of men there are those and thanks be to God good store who hear and see and speak and do the will of God in the places where they are set N. C. I am convinced of all this C. But I pray once more observe whether all such Writers and Preachers as Mr. Bridge and the rest of the separation in which you are ingaged do not take more pains to prove the danger of Idolatry and the hainousness of the sin than to tell you what Idolatry is and to prove that it is Idolatry to joyn with us Their way alwayes was to prove little and to accuse stoutly to declaim loudly and not to reason to terrifie the people by a dreadful sound of words and raise great passions in them not to inform their judgments what they are to do and what to avoid And for that purpose nothing hath ever done them better service than Babylon and Aegypt and the Golden Calves and Idol Ministers Idol Service and such like words of no certain and determinate meaning And to say the truth in this as Mr. Can himself could not but observe a great while ago consists a great difference between Christs institutions and mens inventions Whatsoever God will have us do or not do he layes down the same openly precisely manifestly but when Satan speaks by his Instruments he speaks so ambiguously and cloakedly that one knows not how to take it nor which way to apply it * So I find his words cited in Mr. J. Balls book against him pag. 88. Which if you will but apply as Mr. Ball told him to your own manner of disputing and alledging testimonies It will discover your-selves to be the deceivers who affect ambiguous and equivocal speeches and seek by mists and foggs of strange and unusual arguments and sentences wrest to a contrary sense to blind the eyes and puzzle the understandings of the simple For you hide your selves under the terms of false Church false ☞ Ministry false Prophets false Worship flying from Idolatry taking heed of Idols c. which you have taken up in a peculiar sense and running along in that strain you pervert the Scriptures wrong Authors confound things to be distinguished dispute sophistically and while you boast of clear proofs divine precepts examples and practises of Forefathers c. you only raise a dust to dazzle the eye For let the matter be lookt into and you have neither divine Precept nor Example of godly Forefathers to justifie your separation What you teach hath been condemned in Schools cryed down in Sermons disallow'd in all the Churches of the Saints from the very beginning to this day N. C. You are heated now to some purpose C. It is better you should blame my zeal than I blame my own chilness and I had rather a great deal be condemned of some violence than of a lazy indifference in these matters For who is there that values his Religion and reverences the Sacred Scriptures that can hear them thus abused and not have his spirit stirred in him N. C. There are those who think they smell something else that stirs the spirits of your Ministers C. What should that be N.C. Envy and Anger that any men should be liked better than themselves It troubles them to see any body leave their Churches and follow our Ministers because they would not be thought less able than they And it 's possible their congregations may be thin when so many have withdrawn themselves from them C. There is an old saying that No man ever sought another in the Oven who had not been there before himself Had not your Preachers been heretofore tickled with the sight of full Congregations and the fancy of having many followers they could never think Multitudes and throng'd Assemblies which many do not want so necessary to the contentment of any man of worth among us And were not you intollerably proud and conceited of your selves this imagination could never have entred into your heads that it dejects our Ministers to want your company What are you that they should tremble to hear you say in a threatning manner We will never hear him more Are you the only men of Wisdom the sole Beauty of Christian Assemblies Is all their labour lost if you be not there to commend it Are the rest of the people no better than the walls and the seats Speak man Is it a great courtesie to a Minister that you will be pleased to hear him Must he think himself beholden to you that you vouchsafe him your presence Nay take it for an honour that you come and help to make a numerous Auditory in which you shine as the precious stones in a Ring O prodigious Vanity I have heard indeed that some of your Ministers made low reverences to you and studied to humour you as if they thought you deserved much of them for honouring their Assemblies but I know none of that mind If you will not come to hear them you may stay away and I wonder who will have the worse of it you or they N. C. If they are not concern'd in this why do they keep such a stir about Separation Cannot they let the people do as they will and say nothing To what purpose is it to make so great a noise about such little things C. How say you little things Hear Mr. J. Ball I beseech you a person whom you reverence I suppose who tells you in another Book of his Trial of the grounds of separation Epistle to the Reader that how small soever the things in themselves may seem to be the evil consequences that follow thereupon be both many and great It is no small matter to bury that under the condemnation of false worship as Mr. Bridge doth which the Lord the Author of all Truth the Determiner of his true pleasing and acceptable worship doth allow in his service It is no small offence to forsake the prayers of the Congregation to depart from the Table of the Lord when he calls to feast with himself and to break off Society and communion with the Church of Christ to fill the hearts of weak Christians with doubts and distractions as not knowing what to do or what way to take to spend time in reasonings and disputings of this kind which might much more profitably be imployed in the practice of Repentance and holy obedience to expose Religion to contempt and the truth of God to reproach among them that delight to speak evil These are sad effects of this Separation which I oppose Which tends not as he speaks in his Answer to Can to the overthrow of Antichrist but to the renting of the Church the disgrace of Religion the
Presbyterian heretofore about Uniformity and Obedience to Laws pag. 248 ERRATA PAge 3. Line 16. r. Ordinances P. 4. l. 15. r. witness to any P. 11. l. 18. marg r. * Second part p. 135. P. 19. l. 14. dele almost P. 22. l. 15. r. Discipline P. 29. l. 9. r. should find P. 32. l. 18. r. packt P. 48. l. 11. dele that before you P. 56. l. antepen dele an P. 60. marg r. p. 122. P. 73. l. 1. r. persons come P. 86. l. 2. r. the Generation P. 94. l. 26. dele now P. 120. l. 26. r. insnarked P. 129. l. 20. dele and P. 149. l. 24. r. forsaker P. 152. l. 21. r. neral of all because of the graces of some Ib. l. 18.21 r. Apostle P. 177. antepen r. as well as Innovations P. 180. l. 8. r. inconvenient P. 183. l. 19. r. objected P. 188. l. 7. r. that it is P. 215. l. 31. for abused r. devised P. 217. l. penult r. suspense P. 221. l. 7. r. that are Gods under God P. 222. l. 21. r. Friends P. 223. l. 6. r. a Book P. 228. l. 1. r. A great P. 229. l. 32. r. things are P. 232. l. 28. r. their sincerity P. 236. l. 19. r. selves challenge P. 237. l. 32. r. may justify A CONTINUATION of the Friendly Debate C. YOU are well met Neighbor How do you N. C. Very well through Mercy Why do you sigh C. To see you so far from mending your Schism that you proceed to make it wider and divide our very language Why cannot you speak as the rest of your Neighbors and say Well I thank God Is it a commendable thing to be Singular without any need and to separate from us even in your words and forms of speech Or is this a part of the Language of Canaan so much talk't of in the late times to be learnt of all those that will be accounted the People of God N. C. Take heed how you speak against the Israel of God They are a peculiar people and must not do after the manner of the Nations C. What Nations Do you take us to be all Heathens Nay such Heathens from whom you are not only to separate your selves but utterly to root out N. C. You carry our meaning too far C. No farther than some of your Sect do whom you have taught in a foonsh and dangerous manner to imitate the Scripture Phrasse and to apply all that concerned Israel to Themselves and all that concern'd the seven accursed Nations or Egypt and Babylon to their Neighbors N. C. I am not one of those but I and many others when we are askt about our welfare dare not speak as you do lest we should take Gods name in Vain of which you know Israel was to be very careful C. Is it to no purpose then to thank God for our own and our Families health Or to pray God would be with our Friend when we meet or part with him Perhaps you think that Boaz took Gods name in vain when according to the Custome in Israel he said to his Reapers the Lord be with you and that they were Offenders for replying the Lord bless thee I doubt ere long you will refuse to say upon occasion GOD SAVE THE KING for fear of taking Gods name in Vain N. C. Not so We can use such words when we are very serious but not commonly C. You made me believe the last time we talk't together that you were commonly if not alwayes Serious But now it seems the world is altered with you N. C. We are afraid you are not Serious but use these words so carelesly that you break the Third Commandment upon which account we would teach you to refrain them C. You are excellent Interpreters of Holy Scripture What a rare Comment should we have upon it if all your Expositions were but gathered and put together As you find words now used in common talk so they sound to your fancy there And this makes you take it so oft into your mouths in vain I mean besides its purpose and intention Alas that you should be no better instructed than generally to entertain this conceit that a man breaks the third Commandment if he mention the Name of God without lifting up his Eyes clapping his Hand on his Breast or some signification of Devotion This absurd Fancy I have heard some alledge as a Reason why they would not let their Children ask them Blessing i. e. desire them to pray to God for them And others have made this the cause why they would not teach them their Catechism nor any Prayers lest they should take Gods Name in vain that is in their sense make mention of it and not mind what they say N. C. I do not approve of such Opinions as these C. If you did you would condemn your self many hundred times in a Day For how oft do you tell us in common discourse of the People of God and the things of God and the Ordinance of God not minding that you mention his Name Nay how many times have we heard you say in your Prayers O LORD O GOD sometimes thrice in one sentence when we have great reason to think you did not know whether you used it so oft or no. Now which will you say That you sinned in this or that it is sufficient to have an habitual Reverence toward Almighty God and never to use his Name in an irreverent manner though we do not alwayes actually attend when we use it N. C. I have not considered this but was alway bred in a Belief that we break the Third Commandment when we use Gods name in common talk and that 's the Reason I did not answer you after the usual manner C. It 's well if you be not more careful to keep the Commandment in the Phrase-sense than in its proper and Principal meaning N. C. How now must we be beholden to you to invent a new word for us C. It cannot be new to you sure who are so well versed in a Divinity that consists in a manner wholly of Phrases and setting them aside hath little or nothing in it upon which account it may well be called Phrase-Divinity N. C. You will never leave your Pleasantness Pray talk more gravely and explain your self C. I 'le tell you then what I mean There are many I observe who have been very scrupulous about the Third Commandment and careful to keep it as the words are vulgarly used in our language now a-dayes who have made no Conscience at all of it at least notoriously broken it according to the true import of the Words among the Hebrews For as I have been taught when Moses said Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain c. His meaning was that no man should dare to call God to witness any thing he spoke and yet utter a falshood or not do according to his promise If he were so prophane he assures him
that God who was Witness to what he said would also be his Judg and by no means acquit him Now how oft you have broken the Commandment in this which is the main sense while you have been very strict to keep it in the other I need not tell you N. C. You must tell me or else I must tell you that you are like the Devil a false accuser of the Brethren C. Your Ministers can tell you a great deal better than I who were wont to complain of this as one of the most grievous sins of the times that so many had forsworn themselves by breaking their Solemn League and Covenant You covenanted for instance to extirpate Heresy and Schism and such great diligence was used in this point that they grew faster and to a greater height than ever had been known among us So Mr. Case tells the Parliament in his Thanks-giving Sermon for the taking of Chester p. 25. And asks them how it comes to pass that these abound more than ever they did and that under their Noses There is such a numerous increase saith he of Errors and Heresies as I blush to repeat what some have affirmed namely that there are no less than an hundred and fourscore several Heresies propagated and spred in this Neigboring City And many of such a Nature as that I may truly say in CALVIN'S language the Errors and innovations under which we groaned of late years He means under the Bishops were but tollerable trifles childrens play compared with these damnable Doctrines Doctrines of Devils Nor is he alone in these complaints but Mr. Edwards * Epist Ded. to both Houses before his Gangraena 1. part craves leave to be free with them and to tell them that Sects had been growing ever since the first year of their sitting and every year increased more and more No sooner had they put down the Common-Prayer but down went the Scriptures themselves together with it which many among us saith he slight and blaspheme The Images of the Trinity Christ Virgin Mary and the Apostles were ordered to be broken down and at the next stroke there were those that overthrew the Doctrine of the Trinity opposed the Divinity of Christ spoke Evil of the Virgin Mary slighted all the Apostles The Parliament cast out the Ceremonies in the Sacraments the Cross and Kneeling and then the People in many places cast out the Sacraments themselves Baptism and the Lords Supper The one took away Saints dayes and some of the other made nothing of the Lords-day The superfluous maintenance as he calls it of Bishops and Deans being cut off immediately the necessary setled maintenance of all Ministers was cryed down and denyed too Nay the Bishops their Officers being gone there were many that would have thrown away all Ministers after them A great deal more you may find there to the same purpose if you have a mind but he seems to sum up all in this the Fourth Commandment was taken away in the Bishops dayes so he is pleased to calumniate them but now we have all ten Commandments taken away at once by the Antinomians yea all Faith and the Gospel denyed by the Seekers He would have inserted this clause sure if he durst the Third Commandment is now taken away by the Parliament For I pray you my good Friend what remembrance had they of the dreadful name of God to whom they had lifted up their hands What a trifle was that sacred Oath now accounted That water of life which as Mr. Case fancied * Sermons about the Covenant p. 66. had kept all the Nation from giving up the ghost was dead it self and had not the least spirit remaining in it to quicken these Covenanters to extirpate Heresies Nor would all the expostulations of their Ministers put any life into them But as these complainers had violated other obligations in taking that Covenant so now their Masters set it at naught and to serve the ends of State continued to connive at those things which they promised to root out For a great while after this I find no less than three of your Divines in their Epistle to the Reader before Mr. Pooles book against Biddle renew their Complaints that the whole body of Socinianism which walkt only in the Dark and in Latin in the Bishops time was now translated into English Many bold Factors for those Blasphemies which in those times durst not appear disseminating now their Heresies without fear both publickly and from house to house Which by the way may instruct you who are to be charged with a great part of the guilt and mischief of such Books as the Sandy-Foundation i. e. the Doctrine of the Trinity Shaken and several others lately published In short this was a thing so notorious that Mr. Case moves the Parliament in that Thanksgiving Sermon p. 30. that there might be a solemn fast to humble and afflict their Souls for Covenant-violations and wherein the Covenant might be renewed in a more solemn and serious manner with God N. C. These were hot spirits and might be too forward to charge the Covenanters with taking Gods name in vain when they were not guilty of it C. But you will not say that the greatest part of the London-Ministers were rash and heady Now if you read their Seasonable exhortation to their respective Parishes printed 1660. you will find they complain of the Odious scandals of those that profess themselves the People of God particularly of their self-seeking under pretence of the publick good and their unparalel'd breach of all civil and sacred Oaths and Covenants both to God and Men. N. C. This I confess is a sad story C. Consider then I beseech you if these Leaders and great Professors were so guilty what shall we think of the common People who took the Covenant hand over head as we say being totally ignorant of several things to which they swore nay were taught by Mr. Case in his Sermons about the Covenant p. 41. to take it though they did not understand it N. C. I cannot believe you C. Go to the Book then and believe your own Eyes There you will find he alledges the Example of Josiah for it who renewed the Covenant when he was a Child and of Nehemiah who made the Women and Children do the like He was sensible indeed that there is a great difference between that which was Divine and this which was but the Device of men and therefore would perswade them that they were bound no further by this Oath than they should find the things contained in it to be according to the Word of God But it is plain I shew'd you the last time the Parliament did not allow any Body to expound the Covenant but themselves And beside this they sware without any limitation to preserve things as they stood in the Church of Scotland where for any thing they knew there might be as absolute a Tyranny as is exercised under the
than those who have some sense in them from your great Champion Mr. Cartwright He tells you expresly that by offence the Apostle doth not intend that which displeaseth or discontents but that whereby occasion is given to any of transgressing against the Laws of God For he is treating of eating things offered to Idols even in the Temples of Idols or in the presence of such as were indangered thereby The Gentiles being hardned in their Idolatry the Jews provoked against Christianity and some Christians drawn by such examples to follow them doubtingly Take now the Word in this proper sense and I shall be cleared from this imputation and you your selves condemned for looking no better to your feet that they go not awry N. C. How so C. It is the very design of my Book to keep you from falling into sin any more and to direct you to such a Course that you may not break the Laws of God again your selves nor cast such a stumbling-block before others that they take occasion to break them too If any have misinterpreted my meaning or out of anger and vexation grown worse and more audaciously violent by my writing they must bear the blame which they would throw upon me Nay a far greater blame for they both take Offence when none was given and they notoriously give Offence to others whom I would have kept from offending N. C. They will believe both alike that you meant to take away Offences and that they lay any in the peoples way C. That is they seldom believe any good of others or any ill of themselves But I do not beg your belief for it is manifest to any unprejudiced reason that the Book was sent abroad on no other Errand than to remove stumbling blocks out of every bodies way especially your Shism which is the greatest of all And if notwithstanding you be scandalized and confidently affirm it were better to forbear such writings you shall be judged out of the mouths of some of the old and better Nonconformists Who tell their Brethren of New-England and I say the same to you when they would have had them forbear to read the Common-Prayer because of the scandal it gave to some It is a scandal taken and not given and by forbearing we shall offend you the more if to confirm men in error be to scandalize them yea we shall prejudice the Truth and it might be an occasion to beget needless scruples in others and draw men ignorantly from the fellowship of the Saints and the holy Ordinances of God and strengthen them who by your own confession are run too far into Schism already N. C. Whose words are these C. You may find them p. 16. in the Reply made 1640. by many Ministers in Old-England to the Answer which their N. E. Brethren gave to their enquiry about 9. positions in the year 1637. And I would to God your Ministers would lay them to heart and no longer continue to harden their Followers in Schism by forbearing the use of that which they know is lawful Remember I beseech you the famous observation of a great Author * Lord Bacon Essay of Unity in Religion that Heresies and Schisms are of all other the greatest scandals yea more than the corruption of manners For as in the natural Body a Wound or Solution of continuity is worse than a corrupt Humour so it is in the Spiritual Nothing doth so much keep men from the Church and drive men out of it as breach of Vnity One of his Reasons is because every Sect hath a divers posture or cringe by themselves which cannot but move derision in worldlings and depraved Politicks who are apt to contemn holy things It is possible you may thinks for you are very censorious that he was no better than one of those depraved persons and so take no heed to his words Let me remember your therefore that there was a time when the Presbyterians applauded this observation and laboured to serve themselves of it For I find it cited in a Book call's wholsome Severity reconciled with Christian Liberty licensed by Mr. Cranford 1644. where the Author likewise sayes that the experience of former times makes us so wise as to foresee that Heresie and Schism tend to the breach of the Civil peace and to a rupture in the State as well as the Church Of which he gives many instances especially the Donatists in Africk and the Anabaptists in Germany But now it seems you are grown stark blind and whereas you had a foresight in times past at present you cannot or will not see what is before your eyes N. C. I told you I would not enter into long disputes with you But I am heartily sorry that your have so much grieved all the Godly C. You still persist in your old Uncharitableness Pride and high esteem of your selves above all others Or if you mean only all the Godly of your way yet you are guilty of great partiality in taking a liberty which you will not give For you say what you list against that way wherein so many good people among us truly serve God and make it ungodliness in us to say any thing against yours Pray give me a reason when you have duly consider'd it of this unequal dealing You speak and write against the Bishops Common-Prayer the Ceremonies nay many of you openly revile them to the just grief of our People and all this with a reputation of great Godliness But we must sow up our mouths and not say a word against you and your devices or else be accounted ungodly and prophane nay it is well if we escape the brand of Atheism What is this but to imitate those Hucksters who have double weights and ballances one for buying another for selling To have one measure for your selves and another for all other folk N. C. I do not approve of this C. But you side with those that play these tricks And besides you that are so loth to be grieved in the vulgar meaning of the words make light of grieving others in the proper sense of it For you have so sorely galled and wounded many by your practices that the Anguish hath been such as according to the Observation now named to thrust some back who were coming to us and drive others out who were among us The Reproaches I mean which you have cast upon our Church the divisions you have made the confusion you have been Authors of have been such thorns in some mens way that when they were just at the door of our Church they have drawn back their foot and faln back to the Popish Religion Of this I have good evidence and such as you dare not question of the other that some have taken such distast at the state of things among us as to turn aside out of the right way into the by-paths of Romish Superstition and Idolatry Witness the Seasonable Exhortation of a great number of the London-Ministers who
the Common-Prayer is guilty of where the Minister makes the Gentleman presently confess it to be full of Popish Errors and to appoint horrible Blasphemies and lying Fables to be read to the People Nay makes him cry out almost almost as soon as they had begun their Discourse O horrible How have the Bishops deluded King Edward the Sixth Queen Elizabeth King James and our gracious King Charles and the whole State and made them believe there was nothing in the Service-Book that is amiss or any way contrary to the Word God Almighty deliver us from them I should blush to the end of my life if after our whole debate I had concluded as this man begun But this is the way of those Sots that talk as if they were infallible and would bear all before them by their bare word nay take it very ill if you be not converted as soon as they open their mouth Pythagoras is reviv'd in some of you and Mr. such a one said it is of as good Authority as the best proof in the world N. C. This was some ignorant Zealot I believe C. So one would think and yet he had so good an opinion of himself that he thought such Works as these fit for the eyes of the High Court of Parliament To whom I find he presented Certain Grievances an 1640. of the very same import with this goodly Dialogue but so absurdly slanderous that you cannot but be astonish't at his brutish stupidity For there he tells them as he doth the Gentleman at the conclusion of their Conference that the Bishops have appointed some portions of Scripture to be read on certain dayes and omitted others on purpose to pervert the meaning of Christ and to keep weak Christians in blindness The whole Book of Canticles for instance is never appointed to be read that the People as he will have it may not be able to see the ardent Love and affection of Christ toward his Spouse the Elect and they thereby be stirred up to love Christ and be truly zealous for his Glory Nay if you believe him the Books of the Kings all save the 8 first chapters and the Chronicles were forbid because they shew that Godly Kings did ever love Gods true Prophets and did hearken to them and were zealous of maintaining true Religion and suppressing Idolatry In which words he discovered the very grounds of their quarrel with the King viz. that he did not take such great Seers as himself into his bosom and suffer them to guide his Conscience as if they were of the Privy-Council of Heaven But he discovered withal how little esteem he for his part merited Or rather how well he deserved to be stigmatiz'd and branded in the forehead as one to speak in his own language that was a false-Prophet Prophesying lyes For was there ever any man before this so impudent as to put a Libel of this Nature against his spiritual Fathers and Governors into the hands of the Highest Court of the Kingdom Did any of the Priests or Prophets of Baal think you ever help themselves and their cause by such invectives against the Prophets of the Lord For my part I am of the mind that the Devil himself would be hard put to 't to invent more bold and malicious Slanders than these of this mans forging who wanted nothing but wit to make him like that Father of Lyes And yet I suppose he passed for a Godly man a precious Servant of Jesus Christ a Faithful Minister of the Lord Nay was cherished and incouraged as one of Gods Prophets who had told them things that could be known no wayes but by a Revelation His Book also no doubt found wonderful acceptance though it was stuft with so much Ignorance and railing The people read it with a blind Devotion just as he was transported with so blind a Passion as to accuse our Church of that which all that had eyes must needs acquit it of For both the Books of the Kings were Appointed to be read intirely in the later end of April and in May. As for the Chronicles they being little more than a Repetition of what was writ before might well be left to our private Reading together with some other Books not easy to be understood without great Labour and long Meditation N. C. I wish you would dismiss this man for he hath given us both too much trouble C. Your people would not when time was so easily lay his Book out of their hands as I am able to prove But let him go together with all the Crew of Revilers that were before him For you must know there were Dialogue-writers of the same Stamp in the dayes of your Fore-fathers In one of which Books called the Dialogue of White Devils the Author expresly tells us that if Princes hinder the bringing in of their Disciples they are Tyrants and may be deposed by their Subjects A Doctrine which with all your reading in the Books of the Kings and the Chronicles you will no where find justified For the people were better taught than to go about to depose those that did not favour the Lords Prophets I know you all disclaim this principle and I verily believe many of you abhor it but I mention it to let you see what the Maximes of some of your Predecessors imboldned some of their Posterity to do For this purpose I could relate strange passages out of some Books esteemed by your Party which would verify the censure of the Bishop of Down and Conner * In his Visitation speed at Lisnegarvy 1638. publish'd by Authority upon the Title of the Dialogue now named Which he saith was very fit for such mens Books for if ever there were White Devils or Devils transformed into Angels of Light it is in their persons who under the pretence of Sanctity labour to bring in all manner of Disorder into the Church and confusion into the Common wealth But you have no mind we should remember any thing that is past that so you may the more confidently fill the world with loud clamors as if there never were such doings as now Else you might know there was another Dialogue in Queen Elizabeths dayes between Diotrephes and S. Paul in which the Discipline and its Favourers are magnified as Apostolical but the Bishops of the Church of England made no better than so many proud Diotrephes's nay so many Devils and he of Canterbury so they speak is Beelzebub even the Prince of the Devils N. C. Still you will have all the talk to your self and I must hold my tongue Pray give me leave to inlarge my self a while for I am blam'd I assure you very much for saying so little in our last Conference C. Speak your mind N. C. I must ingeniously confess that we cannot accuse you of such speeches as these but yet you shew your great malignity to us otherwayes In particular it is very ill taken that you make our Ministers guilty of
you do then so may we if we list to do the same And upon that ground may meet in little companies where we please and leave our Churches quite empty A thing without all doubt which his Majesty abhors to think of You your selves have declared in times past that it is absurd to think that Laws nay Ordinances of Parliament even in matters of Religion should not equally oblige all the subjects of one Kingdom If therefore the Laws oblige us then they oblige you If they do not oblige you then they oblige not us neither We are all alike either bound or free But to leave all these Considerations there is something more remarkable me thinks in this case that deserves to be remembred above any thing else And truly I cannot but smile sometimes N. C. Why what is the matter C. I was going to say but the very thought of your odd humour hindred me a little that I cannot but smile to my self when I call to mind how you shift your Principles and change your Maximes according to your Interest There is no Weathercock more guided by the wind than You are by this For it was a Fundamental Maxime heretofore I well remember and obstinately maintained among your party who now fawn and flatter That the Law is the Kings Superior and that he hath not so much power over it as to be its Supream Interpreter That his Oath tyes him expresly to observe it and binds him to see it executed Upon which score all the Kingdom was filled with loud complaints about the Non-execution of Laws and of the Indulgences granted to several persons who offended against them For execution they said was the Life of the Law whithout which it became vain and useless This was the bold Doctrine currant not many years ago and he was held for a Malignant that did not believe it But now on a sudden we hear you sing a new Song in praise of his Majesties gracious Indulgence for so you will call it and withal you earnestly desire the Execution of Laws may still be suspended that is ly dead and become vain and useless For which alteration I can find no reason but this that now the Indulgence is to your selves and then it was to other folk Then also you thought your selves able to make the King bow to you and now your Weakness forces You to worship him N. C. Where do you find any such Maximes For my part I have forgot them C. I can send you to several Books where you may refresh your memory particularly to the Medicine for Malignants which tells you p. 25. That the King hath not power over the Law but the Law over the King But for your greater ease I will only refer you to one small Pamphlet called Known Laws in which you shall not fail to meet with more than I have said N. C. These I believe were the Maximes of the State-faction C. I know no difference between Them and your Divines in this matter I am sure Mr. Will. Bridges who differs from Mr. Will. Bridge as little as their Names do makes none at all In whom I find a passage so directly opposite to your present Opinions about the obligation of the Oxford Act and declaring so fully the sense of your Divines about the Kings Power that I must crave leave to mention it N. C. I am content to hear it But you must remember that these were but the Opinions of private persons C. You are mistaken This man made an Answer published by Authority 1644. to a Book called the Loyal Convert in which he tells the converted Gentleman that he speaks illegally if he say the King can protect a Papist any way His reason is Universal though his Instance be Particular for whom the Law Protects not the King either cannot or ought not to protect No he ought not as he tells us so much as to require the help of such persons to protect him For they ought only to be Tributaries and to hold themselves to their U B I to their place Which words I would have you apply to that business which begat this Discourse I would fain know of your Divines how his Majesties Power comes to be so variable at their pleasure Whence is it that He can dispense with your Residence in the V B I or place to which you are by the Law confined who could not dispense at all with others nor release them no not for his necessary assistance from that place to which according to your Doctrine they were immoveably chain'd The Law protects both alike that is not at all what is the cause then that he can give you Protection notwithstanding the Law and not them Mistake me not it is the farthest thing from my thoughts to call in question the extent of his Majesties Supream Power I only question your Principles who pretend to be no Changelings Answer me this If the King have a power to give an Indulgence and dispense with the Law why did you so rudely and barbarously clamour against him heretofore and say the contrary If he have not why do you every where seek to justifie your selves in your illegal Practices with a meer shaddow and fancy of his Indulgence N. C. There is a great distance of time between the one and the other and they have changed their minds upon second thoughts C. Very likely And you believe also that if Presbytery were in its height and Glory his Majesty might dispence wich the Laws of their making as well as with his own Do you not Alas good man you shall find I doubt to your cost if things were come to that pass that no Authority could remit the Rigour of them For they have condemned all Dispensations and Licenses as Antichristian Their Decrees are so sacred that as there lyes no appeal from their Courts so none may take Authority to relaxate their Laws For they take themselves to sit in Christs Tribunal Seat and so their Laws are no more to be dispensed with than his But why do I insist so long upon one thing since there are so many instances of your windings and turnings as your Interest leads you There was a time I remember when the Parliament was magnified as the only keepers of the Peoples Liberties We were told * Observator on his Majesties Answers 1642. that we might not so much as imagine the Houses could be injurious or that a Committee should have any private ends to mislead them And therefore they could nor sit too long nor prove a burden to the good people But now you are quite in another strain There is no greater grievance than a Parliament No more intollerable mischief than their long Continuance For which different judgment there is no reason that I can see but this that then the Parliament was for you and now it is against you The time was also as I told you before when the Commons alone might impose a Protestation
he himself had just before let his tongue loose in a most riotous manner against us Telling him that the Cathedrals were a Nest and Cage of all unclean Birds a harbour of dumb Dogs proud Prebends and a crew of Ale-swilling Singing men And that they came daily to offer near the Holy Table the blind Whelps of an Ignorant Devotion of which one may say as the Apostle the things which the Heathen offer in Sacrifice to their Idols they offer them to Devils and not to God Nay as if his tongue was set on fire of Hell and could not be tamed immediately after he had given that caution out of St. James he falls into a rage again and in a most nasty manner compares our Prelates to Swine lying in their Ordure For he saith the Hogsty-Prelatical had been swept but twice since the Conquest and the Temple of Jerusalem three times in the 3. years of our Saviours Ministry What office he design'd himself in this sweet work I cannot tell nor how you will excuse this savoury language unless it be sufficient to say that he railed by Publick Authority N. C. I abominate such Reformers and think they deserved to keep Hoggs rather than feed the Sheep of Christ C. I am glad to hear you say so And hope you as much abhor Mr. Hughes his Reproaches who sayes the Common-Prayer may be likened fitly to the abomination of Desolation standing in the holy place N. C. By what you told me before I could expect no better from him whom I think worthy to have been preferr'd to the same office with the other C. But you would expect better language would you not from two such Holy men as Mr. Allin and Mr. Shepherd the famous New-England Preachers N. C. They sure were more Conscientious than to utter any foul speeches C. Yet they tell you the English Service-Book hath stunk above ground twice 40. year in the nostrils of the godly who breathed in the pure air of Scripture Defence of the 9. positions p. 61. N. C. No more of this Noisom language I beseech you which is enough to poison the Air we breath in C. As it hath done already and so diffused its venome among your people that they are generally infected with this Plague Nay they not only do such things themselves but take pleasure in them that do them Witness all the filthy reproaches they bestow upon our Divine Service Clergy and People and the great satisfaction and applause wherewith the late Cobler of Glocesters writings were entertained even by those whom you esteem Religious This shews what manner of spirit you are of and that your people are in danger to deprive themselves of all sense of true Religion to pave their own hearts and make them like the high-way through which all things may pass without any difference save only a few innocent Ceremonies even whole Cart-loads of dung and filth And of the very same spirit I must tell you this sort of Religious people have ever been For Martin Marprelate with whose Devil this man was possessed was received with the like Applause and his Writings so thumb'd that they were even worn out with continual reading and handling of them If you will not believe me yet I hope you will trust Mr. Brightman whose words these are as you may see if you look into his Comments on the 3. Rev. 17. p. 49. of the English Edit where speaking of the Nakedness of Laodicea i. e. in his opinion the Church of England he makes this an Argument of it that this man had poured such great contempt and shameful reproach upon it which is the meaning of her being Naked There was one saith he that called himself by the name of Mar-prelate who set forth a Book wherein he dealt somewhat roundly with the Angel How were those bitter jests of his favoured among the People How plausible were they in a manner to all men How willingly and greedily with what great mirth were they every where entertained There is none so rude and unskilful but pondering that time in his mind would say thus to himself and that not without cause Truly the Lord hath poured out contempt upon Princes those that honour him doth he honour and those that despise him shall be despised He hath made our Priests contemptible to the whole People because they have broken their Covenant You may read what follows there if you think good For it is a great Demonstration how well those people were instructed in the Christian Religion and what rare devises you have been taught to blind your eyes that you may not see your sins For you may speak evil and rejoyce in iniquity and sport your selves in beholding your Fathers Nakedness and fancy all the time that you are fulfilling Prophesies executing the judgment written and pouring out Vials like so many Angels N. C. I should think rather this was the Devil with his followers fighting against Michael and his Angels C. And a Devil it was whom when you had once raised you could never conjure down again nor with all your Prayers and Fastings dispossess him Nay this foul Spirit grew in time so outragious that he flew at last in a foaming manner in your own face Which is a thing so remarkable that I cannot but put you in mind of it how you were served in your kind and felt the tongues of men sharpned against your selves which you had whetted to wound the reputation of others No sooner had you pull'd down the Bishops whom you had laid low before by such fellows as that Martin-Mar-prelate but out comes Martins Eccho which return'd all those Reproaches upon Presbytery Baal Babylon Egypt and all the rest of those Heathenish names were pressed to war against you which you had made to serve against us Presbytery was called a Limb of Antichrist a tyrannical Lordly Government a worse bondage than that under the Bishops a bondage under Taskmasters like those over Israel in Egypt Nay that Very Mouth which reviled our Church now reviled your intended Reformation Mr. Burton himself whom your people had so much admired and brought home with such joy and triumph that you fancied as I shall tell you before we have done that day to be the Resurrection of the Witnesses bestowed those censures on Presbyterial Government which he said * Dialogue called Conformity Deformity would bring us under perpetual slavery worse than either Egypt or Babylon And in the very same terms wherein you had rail'd against our Priests we heard the Sectaries railing against your Presbyters whom they called Romish bloody Priests Black Coats Diviners and Soothsayers Croaking Frogs the Devils Agents Pensioners to the accuser of the Brethren Nay the Assembly it self we were told had two horns like a Lamb but a mouth like a Dragon teaching the Parliament to speak blasphemy against the Saints that dwell in Heaven Your Vniformity also was as much disgraced as ours and stiled the Burden of the Saints
Heaven that it rain not is the power to hold all tidings of forgiveness mercy and peace from the Antichristian Gentiles i. e. such as We while they continue such and declaring them a people to whom no Heaven no Forgiveness belongs while in that condition i. e. while we oppose your desires You may read this p. 70. p. 73. N. C. Enough of this I see their Vanity plainly C. Nay let me tell you a little more for fear you should forget all this and shut your eyes again About two year after this Prophet another who will not name himself arose and dedicated a Book to the parliament with this Title The great Mystery of God or the Vision of the Evening and the Morning Opened Printed 1645. In which he tells us the two Houses of the Lords and Commons are the two Witnesses which the Spirit of Christ foretold should be raised up to Heaven the high place of Justice and Judicature For though all the people of God were Witnesses for 1260 years yet they in a more especial manner because they were not only to protest against Antichrist but were that judgment which should sit and take his Kingdom and Dominion from him raised to Heaven by the power of Christ for that end 7. Dan. 26. * For the Ruin of mystical Babilon he tells you in his Title page and erecting the Spiritual Jerusalem were the ground of our Commotions which were not to cease till by that Parliament the work was so compleated that Christ in and by his Sts. should raign on earth a 1000. years And therefore he is very confident that our Lord reckoned the 1260. years from the year 375. So that the time of the Witnesses prophesying in Sackcloth ended 1635. Then they were slain i. e. deprived of their civil power if they spoke any thing against the Pope and Prelates and those three Gentlemen mention'd before he tells us were a lively Emblem of the rest But then between 1638. and 1639. the Spirit of God entred into the hearts and Spirits of the Godly party both in England and Scotland as he did into Cyrus and they took all the power and strength they had to free themselves from that dead and slavish condition whereinto Antichrist had brought them And a great fear fell upon all the Antichristian party both in England and Scotland yea such if you will believe him was the terror of their appearance at Rome it self And then presently they heard a voice from Heaven i e. the place of Judicature saying come up hither i.e. that Wise Godly men would ascend now to those places to do justice upon Antichrist This Voice was heard first from the whole Commons in Scotland in whom mind it well for it's rare Doctrine all the power that is in Heaven did originally reside ☜ and afterwards in England both from the whole Common-wealth likewise from the King himself who sate in Heaven And they ascended to Heaven i.e. to the high places of Judicature the same time 1639. in Scotland and afterward here in this Kingdom For the rest of the godly were with Child with this great Truth that the Lord Jesus in and by his Saints was to rule all nations with a rod of Iron Which is spoken of he saith 12. Rev. 1. c. And they cryed and travail'd in pain to God by humble and servent Prayers and to his Witnesses which sate in Heaven by humble petitions from the year of Christ 1639. to 1641. That the Lord Christ that man-child v.p. 5. p. 26. might in and by his Saints rule the Nations with a Rod of Iron Whereupon the great Red Dragon i. e. the Popish Lords and Prelates bestirred themselves to devour this man-child as soon as it was born but the people of God bestirr'd themselves both to God by Prayer and to the godly party in Parliament that these Popish Lords and Prelates might be cast out And these Petitions and prayers were heard of Christ and his Witnesses 12. Rev. 5. And so the Church did not only bring forth the Man-child of Government mark that for it tells you some Presbyterians taught that all power was originally in the People but it was likewise received up to God and his Throne into the high place of Judicature But the Dragon with his tail drew a third part of the Parliament to fall off at the same time and likewise a war was raised between the Dragon and his Angels i. e. the King and his Followers and the Lord Jesus and his Witnesses sitting in Parliament In short he tells you that what was done here should be done in all other Kingdoms in the year 1655. When Christ and his Witnesses should take the power of all the Ten Kingdoms which Antichrist had into their hands and should raign Yet so that there should be some little reliques of Antichrist in the hearts of men till the year 1700. Then the New Jerusalem he assures you shall be built and the Lamb be married to his Church and Antichrist cast not only out of the World but out of the hearts of men These are some of the goodly Dreams or Visions call them which you please of your Divines heretofore And no doubt they were then as much believed as Mr. B's Predictions are now Who if he live to see himself deceived will be able it 's like to invent some new beginning for the 1260. years and you will still be so foolish as to give him credit unless these things convince you of the madness of the Prophet But if he be at a loss and think such a blind creature as I can give him notice of any thing he sees not already I may help him at a dead lift and direct him to a Book where he shall find relief All my fear is that he will give me little thanks for my pains because it will make his heart sick to hear his hope is like to be so long deferr'd For after these Writers I have mention'd Mr. Tho. Parker of New-England printed a Book about these things The Visions and Prophec of Dan. opened 1646. in which he layes down two wayes of accommodating the years If they begin when there were but dark and weak beginnings of the signs mentioned that was he thinks in the year 390. and so the 1260. years end with 1649. Then the Turks will cease to be loosed and the next year after they may begin to fall together with the Pope if this way of accommodation hold If it do not then we must stay a great while For the more evident open and perfect state of the things foregoing was not till the year 600. and so no shutting of the Heavens no turning the water into bloud at least no putting off their sackcloth which Mr. B. now expects till the year 1859. N. C. Stop Sir I beseech you once more For I think you have told me too much of this stuff C. The last man speaks modestly and
the End of the World * P. 62. of that Book N. C. Strange Presumption C. I suppose he could have found a text for it in the Revelation if you had presumed then to question his humble confidence For I observe the General Assembly tell his Majesty that if they may but have that Unity in Religion and Uniformity of Church-Government in the two Kingdoms which they petition him for it will appear then that the unhappy Commotions and Divisions among us were but the * Letter to his Majesty July 27. 1642. Noise of many Waters and the Voice of a great Thunder before the voice of Harpers harping with their harps which shall fill the whole Land with Melody and mirth and the name of it shall be the Lord is there The place to which they refer you know is 14. Rev. 2. Now immediately after this joy and Melody there follows as you may see v. 6. an Angel flying in the midst of Heaven having the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto every Nation kindred tongue and people That is as Mr. Case perhaps might have expounded it this Gospel-Covenant St. John saw upon the wing about to fly to the end of the World N. C. No man could be so absurd C. What greater absurdity is there in this than in the application which the general Assembly make of the foregoing words to the same purpose N. C. I approve of neither C. But then possibly they might have perswaded you it was a good exposition when Mr. Case made you believe the Covenant was an Ordinance of God and Holy Ordinance * V.P. 8. and other place of the fore-cited Book a pure and Heavenly Ordinance yea one of the most special and solemn being a joyning Ordinance which strikes the main stroke between God and us the Marriage knot whereby God and a people are made one a piece of Divine Worship and as far as I can discern a more holy or higher Ordinance in his esteem than the Sacrament of Christs Body and Bloud N. C. For shame do not abuse men C. I am far from it as you may see if you will but consult his Answer to this Objection which some made against it It is needless say they to take the Covenant or rather a prophanation of so holy an Ordinance since we have done it over and over again in our former Protestations and Covenants To which he replies * Pag. 40. You receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper once a month that is but a Seal of the Covenant Consider it be convinced N. C. I am convinced of this that you do not bely him C. Very well And therefore he exhorts the Ministers to indeavour to sanctifie the people for so holy a Service as the taking of it and tells the people they must get their hearts into an holy Ordinance frame Just as if they were going to a new mount Sinai to be entred into a new Religion and seperated from the Nations to be a peculiar people zealous of the Covenant And indeed he all along makes it of the same nature with that Covenant which the children of Israel made or renewed with God and so confidently applies all the places of Scripture which speaks of that to this holy service that one cannot tell by any thing he says but this was the Covenant which the Holy Books speak of Nay some of them when the Covenant came into England lookt upon it as the Ark of Gods presence as Mr. Feak tells us * Beam of Light upon the account of which they should certainly prosper And Mr. Case I remember tells us this was the sin of England in former times That our Fathers knew not this service it was hid from them they regarded it not and those times of Ignorance God winked at or God lightly regarded them N. C. Sure he did not imagine all our Pious Ancestors to be Heathens C. You shall judge by and by what thoughts these men have of us all when I have told you that in the strength of these high towering thoughts and lofty imaginations they taught the people to go to battle against their Soveraign and to fancy the Lord march't before them They were confident they should prevail because they were the Jacobs and we but Esau's and the Elder must serve the Younger nay we the seed of the Serpent and they the seed of the Woman and so they must wound our head i. e. give us an incurable mortal blow Thus they were taught by Mr. H. Wilkinson in an Epistle before a Sermon * Preacht before the Parliament 25. Octob. 1643. of his in which he tells the Parliament again that they have to do with a brood of Serpents p. 13. at the best that we are but a piece of Papal Christendom as his phrase is p. 8. Nay when the pride and passion boiles up to its height then they look upon us and the rest of the world but as Infidels and Pagans What other construction can you make of the letter of the Scots in Ireland to the General Assembly * Convened at St. Andrews in July 1642. In which they desire them to send over some Ministers to them God having now opened a fair door to the Gospel by the banishment of the Prelates and their followers Nay they call to them as if they made an address to so many Apostles and the Protestants in Ireland were but so many Heathens Pitty poor Macedonians crying to you that you would come and help us c. Send able men to help to lay the foundation of Gods house according to the pattern And agreeable to this Petition they returned an Answer * August 6. of the same year in the Apostolical language telling them though they are loth to stretch themselves beyond their own measure yet they dare not be wanting to the inlargement of Christs Kingdom And so they send them some men to plant and to water according to the directions of Jesus Christ and the Doctrine and Discipline of that Kirk wishing that they who are sent may come with the full blessing of the Gospel of peace and that they will with all chearfulness embrace make use of the message of Salvation Who would not think that reads this if he were a stranger to our Countrey that some few Christians in that Island had sent for some Apostolical men or Evangelists to plant the Gospel among a Pagan People And that the Prelates and Ministers under their obedience had been but so many Heathen-Priests that nurs'd up the Nation in barbarous Ignorance Such is the goodly conceit they have of themselves and their horrible contempt and scorn of all others From whence it is that they call us the Nations asking their people when they do any thing that we do Why do you imitate the Customes of the Nations And there used I remember to be no phrase more common than this when a man removed his dwelling to a place where
only wait till Christ assures him that he had made all the promises to him For thus he explains the business Jacob would not believe that Joseph was alive till he saw the Chariots that were come for him These sent from Joseph to Jacob brought Jacob to Joseph So every believing Soul is poor and feeble disabled to go to God and to believe in the Lord Jesus Doubting-Christian drawn to Christ p. 148.150 Therefore be must look to the Chariots of Israel first it should be of Joseph according to the resemblance and that will convey him to the promise and when the chariots are come get up into them The Lord Jesus is gone to heaven and hath sent these chariots for thee therefore get thee up and say Lord take me up with thee And so they did They got up into I know not what fiery Chariots and mounted into the Air and there fancied they saw the Lord Jesus immediately revealing himself to them and so carrying them to the promise the absolute promise And I verily believe these Doctrines were they from whence the American Jezabel as they call'd her extracted her Poisons and by which the people were prepared to drink of the cup of her Fornication perswading themselves that a man is united to Christ and justified without Faith that Faith is not a receiving him but discerning be hath received him already that a man is united to Christ only by the work of the Spirit upon him without any act of his that there is a testimony of the Spirit and a voice unto the Soul meerly immediate without any respect unto or concurrence with the word And that there are distinct seasons of the workings of the several Persons so that a Soul may be said to be so long under the work of the Father and not the Sons and so long under the work of the Son and not under the Spirit And in conclusion that a man is not effectually converted till he hath full assurance and that this is given immediately all the activity of a Believer being only to act to sin All these I say are the plain sense if there be any at all in this Book of what he delivered in more obscure words N. C. Pray go not about to prove this For my head begins to turn round already meerly with the scent of these intoxicating ingredients C. If these Doctrines had been broacht by any of us you would have found out our picture long ago in the Revelation and said that the Church of New England was Thyatira and this the Jezabel which called her self a Prophetess and that such Divines as these were the Prophets of Baal the Priests of Jezabel and these Doctrines the Doctrines of Devils All which you might have done with a greater colour and shew of reason than apply these names to our Priests But you are favourable to one another and wink at such Books as these provided the Authors be Nonconfurmists and cannot as you ignorantly speak bow to Baal N. C. I am glad there are none of these Doctrines here in this England C. Those Books are here and highly admired by such sound Believers as take all for Gospel that some men say but can find nothing of Christ among those that speak sense and make the Doctrine of Christ intelligible Nay I can find you Disciples of such Authors as these among your Preachers who will sometimes tell you that Christ will do all for you Sips of sweetness or Cons for weak Believers by John Durant 1662. and then tell you presently that something must be done by you Thus one of them introduces the Soul complaining That the Duggs of Divine love are full but I cannot suck Answer Be of good comfort Christ will not only open his Bosom but thy Mouth But I cannot fetch out the Milk that lies in his Breast I am but weak Answer Christ is sweet and with his finger be will force out the Milk of Mercy into thy Mouth if thou canst but open thy Mouth What need he have made an if of it if Christ would open its mouth and if he will do that and every thing else why did he not make an end of the business in one word and say All the Activity of Believers is to act to sin And so comfort the believing Ewes who are big with young in a sinful sense and say N. C. We talkt a little while ago of some mens bellowing and braying and now you are going to fall a bleating C. You are very pleasant I hope then it will not offend you to let you know that I was giving you the explication which this man makes of those words in Isaiah 40.11 I will gently lead those that are with young that is saith he according to the admirable way Pag. 102 103. now in fashion of expounding the holy Writ Christ will be very kind to those Saints that step aside which is called whoring in Scripture and deal gently with those who are big with young in a sinful sense whom I was going to tell you he comforts thus O ye sinning Ewes who have been big with young hath not be gone after you and furned you and laid you upon his shoulders rejoycing * Pag. 114. The very Phrase of Mr. Hooker Though thou canst not find the way to heaven yet he will find thee c. and lay thy Soul upon his shoulders i. e. upon the Riches of the freeness of his Grace p. 149 150. It may be thou hast been wandring like Dinah from thy fathers house art big with young and afraid to go home But fear not go and try be will not cast you out of doors Though you come with big bellies to keep to the Metaphor he will deal gently with thee though with young p. 119. N. C. We have followed these Ewes or Goats or what you do please to call them too far C. It 's true But at first I intended only to tell you how he describes weak believers Who have as Divines say the Faith of Adberence they will stick to Christ as theirs but they want a faith of Evidence they cannot see themselvs to be his p. 18. N. C. These Divines speak Nonsense C. Judg then in what uncertainty the Disciples of these Divines live who never tell them plainly what Faith is And what a strange blindness they labour with who cannot see as they speak that they are Christ's though they perswade themselves that he is theirs Nor do I see what satisfaction they are like to receive in particular cases any more than in this the greatest of all Your Doctrine seems to me to be so obscure that it 's hard to come to any solid setlement or peace of mind One of your Rules for instance is that we must have a warrant from the word of God for every thing we do If there be neither Precept nor Practise that we can find there to justifie an action we intend it must not be done
you may see what thoughts the most moderate men heretofore had concerning the 0 way into which you are falling N. C. Truly I can scarce see for what end you have told me all these old stories C. That 's strange I was admonishing you of the care that you should take above all others not to run into these dangerous paths Who have not only heard all these things from those before us but also seen with your eyes and felt by dear experience the great swarms of Sects and Heresies that have come out of separate Congregations and the miserable havock they have made of all true Religion and Godliness Now what security I beseech you have any of you that the Congregations you begin to draw from us apart to your selves shall not break in time into as many little fractions and produce these bitter fruits which I have mentioned What charm what power have you to keep out this evil Spirit which alwayes haunted the separation All the Authority which your Ministers may think they have hath no foundation but the Passions of the common people It depends for the most part on the fancies of rude Artisans and Ignorant Mechanicks These will make their Divinity for them and they must still be inventing new conceits to entertain their Imaginations They are servants to such a world of Masters that it is evident they have reason to fear their own side as much as ours And when they have done all they can they are liable to be thought Impostors as oft as any man thinks he is taught of God and hath a new light shining into his mind Then shall you see again all those wild fancies fly about which are now in great measure fall'n to the ground Old England may become as mad as the New And such a woman as Mrs. Hutchinson that shall take upon her to repeat your Sermons as she did those of Mr. Cottons may be more cryed up than all the Ministers you have N. C. It is impossible C. That which hath been done more than once may be done again For the Wine of Separation as two New-England Ministers call it hath such a spirit in it as flyes up furiously into mens heads and works with a restless violence there It burries them head-long Mr. Allin and Mr. Shepherds Defence of nine Positions p 27. as they speak to strange distances that in separating from publick they separate from private in separating from corrupt Churches as no Churches they separate from the purest even those of their own in separating from pollutions in Gods Ordinances at last they fall to the storming of some if not the utter renouncing of all the Ordinances themselves For when rash and sudden men are grown Masters of their Consciences it troubles not them from whom they divide nor whither they run in separate wayes At the very next step they are under the Ministration of the Spirit as the Phrase was in the late times They live upon Pure and Naked God in themselves unclothed of Flesh and Form They are risen and caught up out of the Flesh into Spirit out of Form into Power out of Type into Truth out of Shadow into Substance out of the Sign into the thing Signified And so they drink wine new in the Kingdom even new in the Kingdom not in the Oldness of the Letter but in the Newness of the Spirit N. C. I remember how this Wine as you call it wrought in the late times and there are none figh more than we to think of the spiritual madness that then raged And I assure you we bewail and lament with many tears our present Divisions and have kept as many dayes as there are weeks in the year to seek the Lord for the healing of our sad breaches C. To what purpose is that as long as you keep them wide open by withdrawing your selves from the publick Assemblies of Gods people You had better spare all that breath for it is as ridiculous as if a man should cry and roar under the smart of a wound and yet would not keep himself from raking in it continually with his nailes Why do you not use the means of Union if you truly desire it What is the cause you follow not such Christian Counsel as I made bold the last time to leave with you That would be more effectual than all those Fasts and Prayers which in truth serve only to continue the Division and keep our Wounds gaping For they are the very things as you use them which make the Schism and yet they perswade the people that you are not too blame but the Bishops only N. C. O Sir that you would but lay the Saddle upon the right Horse You load us with many accusations but the Bishops are in fault who will not remove the subject of these contentions If you were not partial you would admonish them as well as us And tell them they ought not to stand so precisely upon indifferent things and alter nothing This would be a short way to remedy all our evils to take away the things which are offensive to the weak and so become inconvenient if not unlawful And you know who said that Contentious retaining of Customs is a turbulent thing as Innovations Why do you not put them in mind of these things but spend your time only in telling us our Duty C. I am not so well conceited of my self as to think I am alike able to judg what is convenient and what is lawful For it requires not only great understanding in the nature of things but also in the nature and temper of men in the state of affairs at home and abroad together with diligent and long observation and indeed all the perfections of a prudent Governor to be able to determine what is most expedient for a Church or State But every Christian may soon resolve or receive satisfaction about what is sinful or permitted to him Besides were I never so skilful I should not have the confidence to which it seems you are arrived to instruct my superiours It is enough for me to deal with my equals Though modest proposals and humble desires without any noise and stir I presume would never be disliked from any of us And had you always taken that course from the beginning it had been better for you But you were ever for assertions and positions as my Lord Bacon long ago observed and filled all the Nation as much as you could with displeasure against their Governors and taught them to esteem the compounding of controversies to savour of mans Wisdom and human Policy N. C. No we are now for an Accommodation C. You do well to put in that word now for it was ever other ways heretofore and Books were written against it as I will shew you if you desire it when you hoped to carry all before you And it is a great argument of your headiness and passion to say no more that when you had power to
the Creed it self which bears the name of the Apostles could escape with fair quarter N C. Not the Creed C. No For he blames the Liturgy for injoyning us to make Confession of our Faith in that form of words because saith he it contains that which I believe no man understands upon any good grounds what it means viz. the descent of Christ into Hell N.C. Read his words again Doth no man understand C. Not one if his belief be right which is exceeding large in this point though very strait in other things N.C. High Presumption you should say not belief Have not our Writers given a very good account of this Article C. I know not so well what yours have done I am sure ours both Bishops and Priests have explained it witness the late Primate of Ireland Bishop Bilson and Dr. Pierson in his excellent Book upon the Creed N. C. And when the Assembly debated this among other exceptions brought in against the three Creeds a learned Doctor told them in a Speech of his that all the Christians in the World acknowledged Christ's descent into Hell some way or other either Locally as many of the ancient Fathers Latimer the Martyr Bilson Andrews Nowel in his Catechism or Vertually as Durandus or Metaphorically as Mr. Calvin or Metonymically as Tilenus Perkins and the Assembly And therefore since there are so many ways to explain the words he desired that after the example of the Harmony of Confessions the Assembly would content themselves with branding only the Popish Exposition of the Article which takes Hell for a part of Purgatory where they suppose the Souls of the Fathers to have lay'd C. I remember well the words * Sacra Nemesis p. 18. it was Doctor Feately who made this Speech But alas all these men that we have named understood nothing They knew not poor Souls what they said when they made Confession of their Faith or they had no reason worth a rush for what they believed Nay all the Christian World do but babble in their Devotions if you will take the word of this triumphant Writer excepting alway such as himself who have no Creed at all that ever I heard of I mean make no confession of their Faith when they meet together N.C. They are offended perhaps with those words else they would use the Apostles Creed as it is commonly called C. That is not the business for he scoffs as I told you at the Song of St. Ambrose though it contain an incomparable acknowledgment of Almighty God and the principal points of Christian Faith and hath none of those words in it This is no more fit in his conceit to be used in Divine-Service together with the Psalms of David than an Asse was to be yoked with an Oxe in the same Plough under the Law of Moses Had he the same opinion think you of one of his own Hymnes or Rimes rather though never so flat and insipid No I warrant you They were divinely inspired heaven-born Songs no less Canonical than the Psalms of David N.C. They had no such thought of them C. Why then did they joyn them with the Holy Scriptures in Gods Service How durst they yoke together things so different as those made by God and those made by Man Or if that were lawful why are we blamed for using the Song of St. Ambrose in Divine Service Nay why did he call our Liturgy upon this account a medley * He adds a heap of other words as his manner is when these would have been sufficient of things Canonicals and Apocryphals no more fit to be molded together in Evangelical worship than those creatures I mentioned to be coupled in the same Plough N.C. I know no reason for it C. Nor will you ever find a Reason why another famous Book * Vox Populi Second part p. 3. of yours in the late times said that the solemn salutes and demy-adorations of St. John Baptist and the Flessed Virgin were left still in the Common-Prayer Book by our Reformers There is no occasion at all for this Calumny unless he thought Magnificat and Benedictus were two Popish Hymns whereby we honoured those Saints as it were easie I think to perswade many of their ignorant and credulous Followers Nay they who can be content to hear us compared to a knot of Ale-inspired Companions when we sing those words of the Holy Ghost may for any thing I know be taught to raile upon Magnificat and Benedictus if as they were but certain Drunken Catches N.C. You are too severe C. I abhor severity where gentleness is the proper cure But Saint Paul tells Titus that unruly and vain talkers and deceivers must be rebuked sharply Tit. 1.13 And there needs no other witness that there are such among them whose mouths must be stopt than the Prefacer to the Book we are speaking of a confident Ignoramus who struts as if he were some great man and makes a ratling with his big words as if he had some mighty matter to tell us but in effect hath just nothing except two or three gross and palpable falshoods of which I will make him asham'd if he have not a very brazen forehead N C. Do you think he would lye for Christ C. I think he is a bold and vain talker of things he understands not what more do you judge when you have heard what I have to say If the Book was writ by the person before nam'd as his Disciples affirm then he tells us one Notorious Tale when he saith The Author ended his days in a kind of Exile for adhering to this truth defended in his Book viz. That nothing ought to be imposed in the worship of God For it 's well known by all that understand any thing of our affairs that Mr. John Goodwin suffered no banishment of any kind but was disabled from his office though there had been no Common-Prayer for intermedling so much in the late Civil quarrels and writing a Book to justifie the horrid murder of our late Soveraign But to let that pass He asks us you remember Where were more learned more godly men in the World than Cartwright Parker Reynolds Greenham Ames And who knoweth not that these and many more of the same heavenly stamp suffered extream Persecution Deprivations and Banishments rather than they would touch with the graven Images the work of the Craftsmen that then were and now are the snares and nets upon Mispeh and Tabor N C. I remember them very well C. And is he not an abominable reviler in reproaching us with Idolatry and the worshipping of Graven Images N.C. But where are the Falshoods C. Is that none think you But those I now intend are that he makes those men against a stinted form of worship who were for it and to suffer extream persecution on that account who suffered none at all much less Banishment Other untruths there are but these are sufficient to make him blush if
you know in express words That whosoever shall authoritatively and under a penalty command any model method or manner of Divine worship to be observed by men makes himself God c. you may read it at large p. 11. 12. For it is as clear as the Sun N. C. That such Books ought to be burnt C. I must add that you are all guilty of too much confidence and talk as if you were infallible in your conclusions When you see therefore the folly of it in another mend it in your selves And do not talk here after as if all Godly men had ever been of your mind No man of a tender Conscience but held it unlawful to prescribe any thing in Gods worship Every Body knows Cartwright Reynolds Greenham were of this opinion as the Prefacer boldly told you and it is a wonder he did not add Dr. Sibbs For so some of your party took care the world should believe and chose rather to corrupt his writings then have it thought he was of another Perswasion N. C. I shall never believe it C. You may chuse But I shall prove that this good mans writings were abused presently after his death in this very point For in his Book called the Souls Conflict he gave this direction among others to guide a Soul in doubtful Cases The Laws under which we live are particular determinations of the Law of God and therefore ought to be a rule to us so far as they reach Though it be too narrow a Rule to be good only so far as mans Law guides unto yet Law being the joynt Reason and consent of many men for publick Good hath an use for the guiding of our Actions that are under the same VVhere it dashes not against Gods Law what is agreeable to Law is agreeable to Conscience Thus the Rule stood when the Book first came out * First Edition 1635. pag. 364. But in a very short time after when he was newly laid in his grave the first words were changed into these The Laws under which we live are particular determinations of the Law of God in some duties of the Second Table In which they made two restrictions of that which he had said in General words First they restrain'd the Rule to the Second Table and not to all things neither but only some duties And then they add a whole Sentence by way of Example which was not in the first Edition which I make no doubt was done on purpose lest any man who read the Book should think it was the Doctors opinion that we should conform to the Orders of our Governours about the worship of God where the Law of God hath determined nothing in particular and their Laws do not cross his But what is there done by the Jesuites worse than this what greater injury to the dead than thus to play tricks with their Books and change their words at your pleasure N. C. It is very strange C. I have something more to tell you As they have added here so they have taken away in another place just before it He is Answering I told you this Question what course must we take for guidance of our lives in particular actions wherein Doubts may arise what is most agreeable to Gods will And one Advice is this we must look to our place wherein God hath set us If we be in subjection to others their Authority in doubtful things ought to sway with us A dangerous Rule some men thought and therefore in the next Edition they left out those words in doubtful things And also blotted out this whole sentence which follows It is certain we ought to obey viz. in doubtful things of which he is speaking and if the things wherein we are to obey be certain to us we ought to leave that which is uncertain and stick to that which is certain In this case we must obey those that are under God N. C. Are you sure of this C. As sure as that I see you though I must tell you there was a neat device to hide this fraud for they reprinted the Book speedily with the very same Title page that was before without giving notice that it was a second Edition And by leaving out those lines and adding an example as I told you to illustrate the rule as they had restrain'd it they made the pages exactly even as they were at the first * There are two Editions of 1635. one of his own another of some bodies else but so ordered that they seem the same At least they reprinted that sheet wherein these things are contained with these alterations which I add lest I should not be rightly understood by all Afterward the Book was divided into Chapters and in all Editions since you will find these Rules Chapt. 17. with these alterations N. C. By his own appointment it is like C. Why did they not tell us so N. C. I know not C. I 'le tell you then They were loth to tell a plain lye For the Doctor dyed within three days after he had writ his Preface to the first Impression and therefore it 's most likely made no Alterations That Preface was dated July the first 1635. and he dyed July the fourch So I gather from those who put out his two last Sermons preached June 21. and 28. and he dyed say they the Lords day following Immediately after which came out a new impression of the same year 1635. but not called a second Edition which they would have us believe was not till 1636. A meer cheat as I confidently affirm having seen and compared all N. C. I see now you are of an imposing Spirit and have taken a great deal of pains to shew it C. What Am I for imposing on men those words they never said N. C. Be not so perverse All the Reformed Churches are against imposing of Set Forms as I have been told C. As perverse as I am I 'le follow you for once So you have been told I believe that they are against all Set Forms though not imposed I am sure I have N. C. No I remember in the beginning of the late Wars the Scotish Forms of Prayer were printed C. And so were the French and those of Geneva and Guernsea and the Dutch to name no more all translated into English Therefore pray satisfie some of your Ignorant but yet confident Friend in this matter As for that of Imposing what think you of these words of Mr. Calvin in his letter to the Protector Octob. 22. 1548. As for Forms of prayer and Rites Ecclesiastical I do greatly approve that there be a certain one extant from which it shall not be lawful for the Ministers in their function to depart c. For which he there gives solid Reasons And whatsoever is pretended to the contrary the Reformed Churches do follow this Counsel and tye men to a Form in the publick duties of Gods worship as I can evidently shew But now let me
perpetual in the Church as we read in Mr. Cottons Catechism Now having devised these things to name no more I observe that the Covenant in the same Church is in one and the same Form of words as well as matter and therefore put into writing and must be read by the party to be admitted or he must hear it read by some other and give his Assent to it Here is not only a Form of Holy Covenant a principal point of worship as W. R. notes invented by one or more men but imposed upon others even as many as enter into the Church and more than that to be read upon a Book What is this better or how is it more lawful than a set form of prayer especially since this Covenant is imposed as an Ordinance of God and absolutely necessary so as no Book-Prayer I think is I find also that by this Covenant the Members in some places †Church of Salem in New-Engl were restrained and tyed up from shewing their gifts in speaking or scrupling till they were called thereto that is they being allowed to prophesie publickly and so to propound questions and make objections which they call Scrupling they bound them up in this Covenant which had the force of Law from doing it uncall'd I would fain know whether this be not to limit the Spirit as you speak and to stint it to times as you say we do it to words For if a man be never so full he must have no vent without a call from the Church And how I pray you doth this differ from an Ecclesiastical Canon as to it's force and obligation but only that it hath another name and all old Canons must be lay'd aside to make way for this new Covenant They tell us also expresly that the Magistrate may compel men to keep their Covenant though not to enter into it †Ib. Narration of Church Courses cap. 15. And for spreading of infectious Doctrines Mr. Wheelwright a Minister and Mrs. Hutchinson a pretended Prophetess were banished the Countrey Several of their followers also were some imprisoned some fined some disfranchised some banished and all disarmed for petitioning the Court in behalf of Mr. Wheelwright and remonstrating with due submission so their words were that they conceived he deserved no such censure a Proceedings of the General Court holden at New-Town Oct. 2. 1637. and the Apology in defence of the proceedings holden at Boston 1636. And great many more remarkable things there are in that story which I cannot stand to recite But must proceed to tell you that as for others who are not of their way there is just no liberty at all For as they will not grant communion to members of other Churches not constituted as they are so if a company of approved godly people should sit down near them where their power reaches differing from them only in some points of Church Government some of them tell us not only that they shall not be owned as a sister Church but also be in danger of severe punishment by the Civil Magistrate b Narration c. cap. 10. N. C. What is all this to our Independents C. They extol both the Men and the wayes of New-England to the Skyes and therefore approve of them I suppose not only as good but as excelling all other The Men they say have testified their sincerity to all generations future by the greatest undertaking except that of our Father Abraham viz. leaving this Countrey to go thither meerly to worship God more purely c Apologetical Narration 1643. pag. 5. And as for their wayes and practices they are improved to a better Edition and greater refinement than those of other Reformed Churches d Ib. which makes it reasonable to believe that when they Covenanted to reform according to the example of the best Reformed Churches they had New-England in their eyes as their pattern For those General words as Mr. Feak e Beam of Light p. 25. rightly observes left it under suspence and undetermined which of the Reformed Churches had obtained the highest degree of Reformation The Scots and their Friends judged the Kirk of Scotland the best Reformed the Dissenting Brethren approved the Reformation of New-England to be most excellent But be this as it will we have learn't thus much from what hath been related that the Churches of a better Edition and greater refinement do not think it unlawful to use forms in Gods holy Ordinances unto which they bind those who come under their Power restraining them also from opening their mouths when perhaps they think themselves full of the Spirit and denying leave to others to set up a different way from theirs in their Neighbourhood As for our Independents I can shew from their Books that they think it necessary to be as severe in a great many Cases 〈◊〉 and I remember as heavy complaints of them as ever they made of the Presbyterians and have been told that they daily spet their renom privately and publickly against those that separated from them a Vanity of the present Churches p. 3. and 11. c. N. C. It will be too long to relate all those things But I would fain know how this will stand with Christian Liberty C. Do you think that it consists in being tyed to no Law at all N. C. None but Gods C. Take heed what you say N. C. In matters of worship I mean C. That 's absurd as I have shewn you Gods Law hath only given us the general rules whereby things to be ordered in the Church according to which our Governors are to make particular Laws and we are to obey them or else there will be nothing but confusion Yet still our Christian Liberty remains because First we are not tyed to this or that pattern or Model but our Governors have liberty to establish whatsoever being in it self indifferent shall seem to them most expedient for maintaining comliness and Order And secondly when any orders are established this is our Liberty as our Divines teach you that we do not use them as any part of Divine Worship as some of you do nor as meritorious and satisfactory nor as necessary to justification or salvation but only for discipline and good Orders sake And lastly by consequence the same Authority may alter them and hath not so tyed up it self to them but that it is at liberty to abolish those in case of inconvenience arising and establish others in the room But such a Liberty as leaves men loose from all Laws and Orders save those that they shall chuse themselves is a wild fancy which your Ministers condemn as well as ours Mr. Dury for instance a very moderate Presbyterian tells the Independent Brethren We must expect no such Liberty as shall break the Bond of Spiritual Unity which by the allowance of a publick tolleration of a different Church Government may be occasioned To keep therefore Unity intire a few must