treatise off the apparel I haue passed by the causes vvherof assigned by me if they shall not be approued by those to vvhose iudgemeÌ„t I submit my selfe vpon significatioÌ„ off their minde in that behalf I vvill resume yt again in that place vvhere I shall handle the conuenience and inconuenience off the ceremonies off the church vnto vvhich place I vvish I had reserued the most part off that Tractat vvhich in my book ys the first The learned reader I desire that vvhere â— confute some thinges vnvvorthy in his iudgement to be mentioned he vvould gyue that to those that are not so vvel aduaunced Althovvgh I confes that off a nomber off them the consultation vvhether any vvere so rude as not to perceiue them vvithovvt helpe stood me in more then the confutation The reader that vnvvillingly readeth the controuersies betvvene those off the same profession in doctrine I trust shall not lose his trauail if he desire to be confirmed against the errors off the papistes the same in many places vvith the Ansvverers Off all I desire both learned and others that they vvould support my vveaknes vvheresoeuer and in vvhat sort so euer yt shall appear seing I trust it shall be manifest vnto them that in a good cause I haue laboured also to kepe a good conscience For better vnderstanding of the book after yovv are a litle entred yovv shall vvhere I remembred yt finde the doctor althovvgh not alvvaies in so many vvordes â–ª yet in the same sense in a smaller letter the testimonies and that alledged out off my former book and admonition being in a greater Sometimes throvvgh his to muche fondnes and repetition I put onely a vvord or tvvo to gyue the reader to vnderstand that I vvander not vvithovvt an aduersary referring him for further knovvledge vnto his ovvn book vvhen I refer yovv for any place ether of my former or els off both his a fevv excepted in the beginning I folovv his later book vvhere all these bookes be Of faultes escaped in the printing some are suche as ether ouerthrovv the vvhole sense corrupt yt or that othervvise may greatly hinder yovv VVhich I haue set apart from the rest desiring yovv to vouchsafe to correct them especially vvith your pen considering that yt is but a small labor to yovv in one book vvhich vvould haue bene infinite to me in all Fare vvel gentle reader and if thovv take any profit off my labors remember me in thy praiers vnto the lord for his assistance in the rest off my life and namely for that vvhich remaineth of ansvver vnto the D. book The faultes most necessary to be corrected Page 15. lin 8. put owt priestes and. and l. 14. put owt either priestes or pag. 31. lin 26. read is not asword pag. 57. lin 11. read with the contrary of that sentence pag. 66. lin 22. put owt against pag. 84. stat R flat pag 152. lin 9. put owt suche pag. 164. lin â–ª 26. yet R. yea pag. 170. lin 31. for the second inuisible R. visible pag. 173. lin 31 R. faithfulnes pag. 191. lin 23. in the margent R. 2. Coun. pag. 211. li. 8. put owt they pag. 252. lin 26. for decree R. they decreed pag. 261 lin 20. pastors R. people pa 266. lin 32. R. for if the. pa. 273. lin 34. in certein copies For those alledged Titus to proue Timothy and read those alledged to proue that Timothy and Titus did pag. 296. lin 26. R. Euangelistes and pastors pag. 368. li. 16. giftes R. vices pag. 390. li. 16 put owt but. pag. 402. lin 16. R. inconuenient pag. 440 lin 5. this R. there is pag. 441. li. 9. put for as where as and lin 12. R. and in not pag. 443. lin 2. obteined R. obserued pa. 499. lin 22 after the word before ad yt appointeth pag. 516. lin 19. for bishops R. elders pag. 553. li. 2. put out belike suche as ours Other faultes vvhich may somevvhat stay the Reader Page 9. line 6. put owt and pag. 11. li. 15. saith R. faith page 18. li. 35. one read owne page 19 li. 25 R procedeth page 21. li. 19. R. Vincentius page 23. li. 6. they R. there page 31. li. 2. R. spake page 33. in the margent put owt Ierome Tom. 3. praeface in Iob. page 37. li. 11. R. bouldnes page 41. li. 5. R. suspition page 42. li. 21. R. not to come page 46. in the margent R. implicita pa. 46. li. 30. R. members page 49. l. 14. for R. of page 50. li 21. R. magnifie pa. 51. li. 11. there al R the real page 52. li. 29. put owt the page 53 li. 9. R. that a man li. 11. R. and not onely page 55. li. 36. R â–ª herewith page 61. li. 25. diuis 7. R. 5 page 64. li. 28. R not note pag. 77. li. 18. R. Ancyran li. 21. put owt is page 94. li. 16. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 page 96. li. 31. R. remnantes page 106. li. 4. R. snatcher page 108. li. 35. this R. thus page 112. li. 18. R. tel me now page 116. li. 19. put owt yet page 131. li. 26. R. poore page 133. li 26. R self pa. 145 li. 8. R. answerer li. 8. be R. he page 146. li. 24. R. soundnes of doctrine page 148. l. 36. R. not page 151. li. 6. R. gift l. 29. R. abilitie page 194. l. 8. put owt the figure of twelue page 211. li. 23. M. R maister page 225. li. 20. R. I haue page 233. li. 3. if R. yt page 234 li. 35. in the magent R. â—75 page 238. li. 13. R. was then page 247. li. 8 R. the whole page 265. li. 19. R. fauouring page 259. li. 24. R. yow might page 281. li. 15 put owt and page 293 li. 20. R ministery page 302. li. 11. R title page 316. li. 13. he R. be li. 7. R. moste page 334. li. 37. R. with page 337. li. 18. R. yt is in an page 341. li. 29. be R. he page 351. li. 35. R. are in the li. 36 are R. of page 364 li 30 R seauen yeare page 373. l 21. R. reading li. 28. R. dealing page 380. li 24 in the margent R. 572. page 394. li. 13 yt R. yet page 405. li. 29. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 page 457 li 36 for the second there R. his page 460. li. 32 R. in that page 478. li 20. R. for him page 485. li. 12. R. weigh page 492 li. 1. put owt which page 494. li. 18. R. title page 504. li. 24. R. chew wordes page 503. li. 12. 17 29. 33. R Sozomene page 508 â–ª li. 29. R. fondly page 534 li. 29. R. had said page 536. li. 1. R. doen page 562. li. 34 R. peece page 565. li. 29 their R. other li. 33. for other R. their page 566. l. 16 R. with page 570. li. 9. in the margent R. aduersus page 581. li. 30 R. scambling page 585. li 8 is R as The ansvver vnto the doctors praeface entitled to
peoples consent owght to be in the election off their Pastor Not vnlike to this is that wherby vpon a rule brought and applied as well by other learned men as by me to the Ecclesiasticall election he would insinuate that I meant yt should be translated to the ciuill estate Where appeareth that there is no sparke off equitie in him For if the rule were giuen generally then my applying of it onely to Ecclesiasticall elections doth rather call yt from being vnderstanded off the ciuil if it be giuen of it alone then it is clere that I vsed it accordingly Beside that I haue shewed that it is far otherwise in the ciuill then in the Ecclesiasticall gouernement and that thinges vnlawful in one are notwithstanding lawful in the other But thus must I restore that I neuer toke and be accused off thinges vvhich I not onely neuer did but not so muche as knovv off Here also falseth an other accusation of flatterie off the people with iniurie to the magistrate Where him selfe gyueth me at least this testimonie that I haue bene euil scholed in that craft which haue chosen masters that can do so litle for me Yf the state off our commen wealth had bene suche as wherin the people had born the sway his accusation vntrw should yet haue had some colour off trwth An other accusation is off wrong in not setting downe his boke as one looth it should be compared and for fear my corrupt dealing should appear But this accusation lieth against the most part of learned men which hauing confuted aduersaries off the trwth haue not onely not set downe there bokes but not giuen their readers so particular addres for conference as I did Here therfore ether let him absolue me or condemn me with them That I did yt not in suche respect as he saith I haue protested the truth wheroff shall now appear And withall that notwithstanding his setting downe let the reader iudge whither he vseth as he saith off me friuolous replies childish collections fraudulent deprauing off my boke Beside that he hath passed by diuers reasons off mine vntowched yea and as shal God willing hereafter appeare guilfully left out of his own boke in one or two places And because I am entred into his dealing hauing bene tied now full two yeares to turn this stone of his writinges it wil not be amis to admonish of some of his practises wherby the reader may the better know how to turn himself in them ether present or to come if he kepe on the some course In the reste therfore off his boke beside reproches furmises c one part is spent in naked affirmacions withowt proof vented often by questions etherfond or from the purpose and in dry testimonies off men both which are as other his furniture repeated and that sometimes again and again That where the Cuckow trobleth but once a year he with his vntunable repetitions off one thing to the same purpose trobleth all the year long Yet hath he euery hand while to be short In his testimonies beside that yt shall appeare that so many as make to the cause they are almost euery one ether falsified or drawen from the meaning of the autors yt is first to be obserued that to answer the places off scripture alledged yt is verie like that he first turneth to Maister Caluin if he be against him he goeth to aske fauour at other if no body answer nothing yet he bringeth sondry times euen that nothing that is to say which maketh not for him sometime also against him Secondly where in his former boke he propoundeth certein thinges as his own not able to maintein them in this he callethe for the autors assistance of whom he hath not so muche borowed them as taken them against their willes yet he counteth yt vaine glorie to take owt off an autor and to conceale his name Notwithstanding if he had knowen from whom his collections came which he vseth and had bene thankfull to his autors in that sort he saith we owght we should often haue had in the margent for Augustin Ambrose Chrysostome c. Pigghius Hosius Harding c. To let pas diuerse reasons I gaue him which he neuer thaÌ„ked me for but hideth them as well as he can by taking them vp before hand or he came to the place where I giue them Thirdly where his autoritie is nameles and goethe vnder this generall title other learned men thinck otherwise a learned man saith so haue yt for suspected off popery For that in some off those places he can haue no other autors but Papistes as I am persuaded Last off all that he doth often bately recite them vvithowt applying them to his matter or gathering his argument off them The cause vvheroff is for that they are not hable to beare any argument the vanity wherof vvould not forthewith appeare if it vvere gathered Which is manifest for as muche as vvhere any colour off argument dothe but peep there he presseth them diligently vvhich practise he vseth in his other proofes albeit he precisely reprehendeth it in the autors off the Admonition Touching the other part of that which remaineth in his boke standing ether of his reasons against our cause or answeres off the reasons against his â—in bothe yow may obserue that the prouing off that in question by that which is likewise dowbted of occupieth a great roume In his answers to mine he will often acknowledge no argument Because yt is not set down in the precise ether order off propositions or other exact form of Sillogism Which I thinck is a streighter law then any writer hetherto hath bene bound vnto yet I will not refuse it if he vvil giue me an example the matter hauing now bene so largely debated to the vnderstanding of the simpler sort Let him therfore if he dare trust his cause deal that way an other vvhile As for diuers particular faultes in his lodgick and grammer throwgh euill translation considering that they bring no preiudice to the truth in question and hurting not the vnlearneder are quickly espied off the other I am well content to hould back Thus muche to the Answerers both generall and particular accusations and surmises in suche sort aâ— I meane God willing neuer vpon any his importunity to returne vnto againe For as for that page 21. line 3. and suche other as haue manifest confutation in the places owt off vvhich they are raised they are most vnworthy the naming Hauing spoken thus muche for their causes especially which misinformed by the D. haue no good opinion of the discipline now propounded yt remaineth to say something for theirs vvhiche acknowledging yt for the trwth off God doe not stretch forth their handes to bring yt in or at the least not with that endeuour which owght to be Wherin yt seemeth they doe not so fully consider that before alledged of the vse of the discipline the same in the churche that the
the godly reader TO all here in controuersie coÌ„sidering they are barely said without proof yf they be affirmations one yea yf they be denials one nae shall be enowgh seing they are all handled at large in this book Except that off ceremonies vsed in popery wheroff how vntrwly he speaketh when he saith that the reiecting off them standeth vpon this that we may not vse in any wise or in any consideration reteined in the church any thing that hath bene abused vnder the Pope both hath manifestly in my former book and further shall God willing in the later part off my reply appear Answer to his two Tables wheroff the first is intitled off daungerous pointes off doctrine the other off vntrwthes and falsified autorities conteined in my reply AFter I had ended my book and was entred vpon the preface I receiued a treatise called An examination off M. Doctor VVhitgiftes censures conteined in tvvo Tables set before his book intituled the defence of the ansvver to the admoni Wherof as I was glad for the truthes safe which shall receiue strenght by yt so I was sory that I receiued yt no sooner for that it might both haue cased me off muche labor and haue serued me for a good direction in those places which might seem to require a larger defence then the shortnes yt foloweth would receiue And as those off the churche which acknowledg this trwth so I especially for whose support I take yt was written hartely thanck the autor and desire the reader to vse yt for a supply where my answer doeth not satisfy him Whiche answers off myne so far as I haue hetherto gone he shall finde after this sort In the firste Table The first Article becawse yt was not lincked with any particuler cause in controuersie I pourposed to answer in this place but now I will rest in the answer which is made The 2. is answered page xlij line 33. The 3. is answered page xlv line 17. The 4 page liij li. 20. The 5. page lxxxix li. 14. The 6. page xcv l. 29. The 7. page ccxlij li. 21. For the 8. I refer my self to the foresaid treatise especially considering that I haue passed by that whole Tractate The 9. is answered page ccccxlviij lin 6. The 14. page ccclj li. 28. The 15. page ccclxxiij li. 37. In the second Table The first is answered page viij li. 22. The 2. page ix li. 26. The 3. page lxij li. 21. The 4. page lxxxij lin 37. The 5. page xcj. li. 4. The 6. page clx ij l. 29. The 7. page cxcj li 1. In the 8. that part touching subtil suppression is answered page cclij li. 12 the other lieth vpon Illiricus whom I named the autor off that report yf yt be not in the Code The 9. is answered page cclv li. 16. The 10. page cclvj li. 27. The 11. page cclxxvj li. 27. The 12. and 17. page cclxxvij li. 17. The 13. page cclxxx li. 12. The 14. page cclxxxj li. 4. The 15. page cclxxxij li. 7. The 16. page ccc li. 33. The 18 pa. cclxâ—x li. 34. To the 19. and 20. I answer as to the 8. off the first table The 22. is answered page cccclxxxj li. 18. The 22. ccccxxxvj li. 12. The 23. page ccccxciij li. 33. The 24. page diiij li. 1. The 25. pa. dxij li 28. The 26. page dxxxiiij li. 11. The 27. dlxx li. 15. The 28. page dcxxv li. 26. The 29. page dcxxvj li. 36. The 30. page dcxv li. 4. The 31. page dcxxvij li. 29. The 32. is answered before in the Epistle The 33. page dcxlj li. 13. The 34. page dcxliij li. 33. The 35. page dcxlv li. 1. The 36. page dxxiij li. 5. The 37. page dcliiij li. 1. The rest in both the tables remain to be answered in the second part off my reply The replye vnto the answer pag. j. c. FOr the foure fyrst sectyons being either false accusations bare repetitions off my wordes or profes off thinges which I haue set downe and confesse I will not answer His fifte section answerethe not any thinge to diuers reasons which I haue set downe to proue that this cause can not be charged with disorder whose whole worke is that nothing be donne owte off place owte off tyme besides the boundes off euerie one His seuerall callinge in the 6. sectyon 4. pag. he falling to railing doothe gwilfully passe by the reason which I haue alledged why this doctine which we mainteine can not be thowght enemy vnto princes seing yt was a freende to princes when princes where enemies vnto it For him selfe can not denie but the gouernement by elders the choise off the ministers by the churche the moste off those thinges which he especially supposeth to haue warre with the ciuile magistrate and are in controuersie betweene vs were in the tymes off the Apostells when they being troden vnder feete off the ciuile Magistrate did neuer lifte vpp their heele againste his power And where he saithe it is no plaine dealing to drawe that to this cause which is trewly spoken off the gospell he needed not to haue charged vs with wante of plaine dealing seing we offer to shew the discipline to be a parte off the gospell and therfore to haue a comon cause so that in the repulse of the discipline the gospell receiueth a checke That the discipline off the church is not in the nomber of those thinges which are varyed is disputed in the second tractate and in her seueral partes thorowe out the whole booke That the distinction off the common welthe and the churche hathe bene and owght to be kepte of al men which haue spokeÌ„ or written with any Iudgement shall be shewed in the 20. Tractate and therfore althowghe the answerer doo a 100. tymes repeete this thinge in bare affirmacions yet the reader shall once for all looke for the answer off thes thinges in those places In his 8. section page 1. he speaketh off the authoritie off the magistrate vppon no occasion to no purpose with greate wordes with no proofe Then as thowghe I had written in vnknowne figures as the priestes of Aegypte he complaineth of my obscuritie and that he can not vnderstande what I meane wheras I coulde hardely haue vsed greater light of speache if I had bente my selfe therunto For I proue the singuler benefite that the discipline bringeth to the comon welthe for that by the Ecclesiasticall censures off admonition reprehension suspension c. the lesser faultes off lying vncomely iesting and cholericke speaking being met with all the passage is stopped againste the greater faultes off thefte adultery and murder Wherin obserue his vnfaithfull dealing which feining him selfe not to vnderstande that which my wordes doo fullie sounde doothe notwithstanding forge thinges off me wheroff there is not the smallest ynkling For here vppon he asketh whether I thinke not the punishemet of thefte and murther sharpe enowghe with diuers other which folow vnto all
off the Scriptures then expressed in the vvordes off the Scripture Here the answerer may lerne that certaine off the cheiff pillers off our Religion by the Iudgement off this councell are not expressed in the worde off God and yet notwithstanding bothe conteined in the worde off God and commaunded to be beleued And where he saithe that he couÌ„ntethe that expressed in the scripture when yt is either in manifest wordes conteined or theroff gathe red by necessary collection I answer that I suppose that there was neuer writer holie nor prophane that euer spake so and that yt byddethe defiance bothe to de vinitie and humanitie being forged as yt is to be feared contrary to his owne knowledge onely that he might giue some colour vnto that absurdytie which he woulde so gladlye fasten on me I saie that it is against his owne knowledge forasmuche as in his former booke and euen in the nexte diuision which is in the 78 page off this his later booke he confessethe this difference off being expressed in the worde and gathered off it which is the same in effecte which I haue saide For he saithe that nothing owght to be tollerated in the churche ' c. onles yt be expresly conteined in the worde off god or maye manifestly therof be gathered Here he plainely opposeth as member off one diuision expressely conteined and manifestly gathered now in this later booke cleane contrarily he maketh gathered to be a part of expressed And in an other place off his former booke as it appeareth in the 24. page off his booke he saithe and none off these circumstances are commaunded in the scripture or by necessarie collection theroff may be gathered Where he supposeth some thinge necessarie to saluation which is not commaunded namely which may be necessarylie gathered of the scripture And iff those wordes commaunded in the scriptures which are generall will not conteine al that which is necessary as his diuision teacheth how much les will thes wordes expressed in the scriptures compas them and iff commaunded and forbidden be all one with expressed as he here affirmeth then did he absurdely to make gathered off the scriptures to be an opposite member vnto commaunded That which I sayed off the argument off authoritie off a man to be neither good affirmatiuely nor negatiuely farther then to induce thereader into somelikinge or mislikinge and not to haue force to compell is apparaunt vnto al which haue any sparcke of iudgement That which is brougâ— out off Aristotle is to no purpose and it maketh also against the A. Forasmuche as where Aristotle saithe that credite is to be giuen to him that is cunninge he speaketh off thinges which haue a likelihoode and may be disputed off on bothe sydes and not of thinges which are to be receiued without gainesaying And I merueile that the A. will not see that amongest men the cunningest in any profession haue in diuerse thinges bene off those which followed them iustly founde fauls with And if he will bothe sticke to Aristotle and interpretâ— him as he dothe that a man ought to beleue euerie one in that as to and profession where in he is conninge then euerie learned Deuine in his profession is to be beleued whatsoeuer he saithe Which beinge absurd and seinge it hathe bene before shewed that an argumeÌ„t of the authoritie of maÌ„ affirmatiuely is not good let vs holde that for somuche as maÌ„ caÌ„not come through his infirmitie vnto the perfectioÌ„ of any thinge which reason being assigned of me is vntouched of the A. and forasmuche as the giftes off god are giuen in measure and not in perfection that an argument off â—he authoritie off man can not enforcevs and that it is proper vnto the Aposties and Prophetes whom the Lorde had chosen to be his notaries and whose handes he helds continually to be without the hazarde off errour To the places which I alledged owte off the worde off god to proue that an argument drawne of the authoritie off the scripture negatiuely is good he answereth that the examples which I bringe be of thinges of great importance and forbidden in other places of the Scripture I graunt they are so and that maketh much against hym for that the Lorde hauinge this aduantage against the Israelites off charginge them that they had doone contrarie vnto his commaundement chose rather to saye after this sorte that they had doone that vvhich he had not commaunded therby to teache his to hange vppon his mowthe And the answerer owght to haue considered that the reason is generall whiche the prophetes vse which otherwise shoulde be no reason at all And it maye be shewed that the same manner off argument hathe bene vsed in thinges which are not off the substance off saluacion or damnation and wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrary In Iosuah the children of Israell are charged by the Prophete that they asked not counsaile off the mouthe off the lorde when they entred into couenant with the Gabeonites and yet that couenant was not made contrarie vnto anie comÌ„aundemeÌ„t of god For howsoeuer yt seemeth to some that vpon the wordes off Moses they owght to haue bene put to deathe being of those nations which dwelte in the inheritaunce off the people off god yet iff yt be considered what the causes were why they might not enter in to league with them which was lest they dwellinge amoÌ„gest them shoulde drawe them to a false worship of god yt will not be harde to vnderstande but that withe condition off yelding themselues bothe to the subiection of the Iewes and to their institution in the Religion of god as thes did they might be receiued There was in deede difference betweene these nations which dwelled in the lande off the inheritaunce off the children of Israel and which dwelt rounde abowte them For where the Iewes might make league with the nations rounde abowte them withowt anie their submission vnto Religion they coulde not doo so with the Cananites c. And where in other nations after peace refused the children off Israell hauing taken a cytie owght to kepe a liue women and children in these ether resistinge them or not submitting themselues vnto the seruice of god it was not lawful to spare ether wemeÌ„ or children But that it was simplie vnlawful for theÌ„ to make league with them vvith any condition I thinke yt can not be shewed for theÌ„ Iosue aÌ„d the princes shoulde haue doone euil to haue kepte their othe with them after they had vnderstanded their frawde cosidering that all othes made againste the comÌ„aundement of god are to be brokeÌ„ And if it be saide that Iosue and the princes did euil in keping their othe the approbation off that facte is apparant in an other place where the vengeance for the lorde fell vppon all Israell by famyn and vpon the housse off Saul particulerly by executing those off his familie because the gabeonites had bene coÌ„trary to the tenure of the
churche owght not to put forwarde any to the holy Ministery without good tryal off his sufficientie Then yt is vpholden off the wordes off the texte that twoo were set vpp and caused to stand before the congregation For after that sainct Peter had declared what maner off man he owght to bee which should fill vp the voide place off Iudas immediatly S. Luke sheweth that twoo were put vpp as if he shoulde saye consider whether thes he suche or no as ought to chosen and which agree with that which is required off him that must supplye this place The reason wheroff was for that all the men which where in the churche at that time were not capable off that function hauing by no lykelyhood bene with our sauiour Christe continually from the begininge off his preaching vntill the day off his ascension And vnles that S. Peter mente to subiect those vnto the tryall off the churche which were to be chosen why instructed he the churche and gaue a rule to seuer and trie them by After the churche agreed eyther by voice or by silence that they were suche as behoued S. Peter wente forwarde and conceiued a praier as followethe there in the texte And that this is the plaine and naturall order off that action he that hathe but one eye may easely see The scripture is shorte and in a few wordes comprehendeth many thinges and touchinge certein pointes off a storie leauethe other to be gathered off the diligent reader sometimes which was doone before by expressing that which was doone after other sometimes that which is doone after by expressing that which was doone before Whereoff yff neede were yt is not harde to shew diuers examples And theroff is that sentence so often vsed off the Hebrew Doctours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Scripture stayeth yt selfe vpon or presumeth an vnderstanding reader withowt the vvhiche yt shall seme very vnsufficient that ys most perfect and vvithowt the which a greate portion off the vvorde of God ys loste And vvhere as yow saye that yt is certaine that there was no tryall because they were sufficiently knowne first yt appeareth not by any wordes in the texte that they were sufficiently knowē And considering that as yt comethe comōly to passe in a persequuted churche there were by al likelihood some lately come to the church they might be well vnknowne to thē althowghe they vvere well knowne to others Thē the questiō is not whether they vvere examined or no but vvether they vvere set vpp to be tried so that iff there vvere a proferr off tryall althowghe no tryall folowed the place ys aptly alledged For albeit they were knowne to the vvhole companie so that there needed no inquirie into their behauiour or other thinges vvhiche are in the compas off the churche to iudge of yet that ys no cause why they shoulde not be offered to the examinaciō Nether is yt reason that the knowne habylytie off some one or twoo shoulde breake an ordinary lawe in the churche off god And yow that haue serued your selfe more thē once or twyce vvithowt cause as shall appeare off the manner of ciuill elections to ouerthrowe the Ecclesiasticall might here by the consideration off them haue bene delyuered from this abusinge off yowr selfe and others Yow knowe in the election off followes and scolers where the lawe commaundethe an examination before the election althowghe the parties to be chosen be neuer so sufficient and there sufficientie neuer so well knowne to all to vvhō the choise belongethe yet the offer of themselues to be examined is so necessary that if that be not they cā by no meanes be chosen If therfore mans lawe in suche small elections hath suche force that yt will giue place to no mans excellencye or singularitie how muche more owght the lawe of God vvhich byddethe generally vvithout exception that they shoulde be tryed vvhich are promoted to the ministery in so greate and weighty an election to kepe her force Where yow say ther was no other cause off presenting them then that which is expressed in the text tell me what cause is expressed off presentinge them in the congregation surely none that I reade those two which I alledged in my replie are gathered but none is expressed So that yf there vvere no other cause off there presenting then that vvhich is expressed there shoulde be none at all and that action off the Apostles should be to no purpose What expresse wordes are there in the texte contrary to this tryall or at the lest offer off triall the vvordes shoulde haue bene noted the meaning shoulde haue bene beaten owte where vve neede your helpe there you forsake vs vvhere the meaning is cleare and vvithout controuersie there you trouble your selfe and vs boothe Yf yt be a rule to be folowed yt must be followed wholy saith the answere This is very definitiuely and magistrally said and being a dangerous error as that vvhich tendeth to the ouerthrowe of the cheifest heads of Christian religion is notwithstanding farced with scoffing questions in derision off the truthe I neuer learned nor I doo not vse to add or take away from the word off God I expounde the scripture and gather off it vvhich is not to add and in saying that something is not to be follovved off vs I take nothing away for I confesse yt to be so as the storie reporteh And althoughe that parte be no example to follow yet euen now and to the ende yt conteinethe a profitable doctrine But if I take away from the scripture because I say that some Parte of that action is not to be follovved you do muche more that saye nothing theroff ys to be followed I distinguishe beweēne that which was for a tyme and that which is perpetual and to distinguishe is not to dismember Al the reuelations I haue are owt off the reueled worde off God I knowe that this parte off this action touching the examination ys to be followed because yt is confermed by other places off the scripture thother not so for that yt hathe not the like confirmacion This spirite off slumber whearwithe the lorde hathe striken yowe in that yowe say that if a rule be to be followed yt is to be obserued wholely shall better appeare when I come to yower answer of that which is writen in the 51. and 112. pages of my former booke where this is handled No doubte saith he this is an extraordinary example As Archidamus said to his son̄e beinge to venterowse and boldhardy either put to more strēght or take avvaie some of this courage so I must admonishe yow that either yow woulde come stronger withe argumētes or els goo softlier to thes doctoral determinatiōs Is yt without all doubte that all thinges are here extraordinary nothing of necessitie to be followed For so yow say when yow will not haue yt followed in other parte because some one is not to be followed What is yt not necessary
that he hath taught that Sainct Paule commaundeth that they and in them all bishoppes shoulde onely chuse Wherby are condemned all election by the church as those which haue intruded vppon the bishoppes possession Where he saith that the Adm. dothe coulorably affirme by thes wordes thautoritie is gyuen to the bishopp alone c. that the right off orderinge ministers doth at no hand apperteine vnto the bishopp I would knowe what word there is heere where this coulor is to bee seene aÌ„d what light he is able to giue vs to make yt appeare The other sentence wherwith he woulde proue yt followeth after nether was he come vnto yt Yf he did therfore confute that it is as straunge as iff a man shoulde shutte off and spende his arrowes or euer he come within the reach off his enemie And I thinke there is no example off suche confutation onles he had coupled that place with this and comparinge them together sett vpon them both at ones beside that it is Absurde that where the Adm. heere spake off the election he answereth off admission Here cometh to be considered the A. dealinge in the end off the booke where charged with vnfaithfullnes for that as in this place he would haue in synuated that the Adm. would haue the people chuse onely to proue hym selfe giltles he alledgeth a place of the Adm. wherin yt is said Then the election vvas made by commen consent off the vvhole church To this answer I repâ—lied that it was his ouersight that he tooke the people which is but a parte of the church to be al one with the church which is the whole coÌ„teininge as well gouernours of the church as the people in which replie the D. crieth owte off manifest falsification Why so forsooth because I lefte owte this worde whole that is to saie because I spared hym and kepte backe a peece of his folie and that with disaduantage off that which I pretended to proue For the word church simply set downe doth comprehended as well the gouernours as the people howe much more doth it comprehend them when this worde whole is added And if it were falsely concluded off him against the Adm. that they would haue the ministers to be called allowed and placed off the people because they saide that the election was made by commen consent off the church how much more is yt falsely concluded of thes wordes off the Adm. the election vvas made by consente off the vvhole church Thus appeareth that the D. together with his diuinitie seemeth to haue loste his commen sense yt is time therfore to carie him owte off the schole to some other place iff peraduenture by some sharper discipline he might gather vpp him selfe againe In the same place also vpoÌ„ that I shewed that in proper speach the church and people differed hauing there declared that difference to be in that the church is the whole and the people a parte theroff â–ª this complainer off falsificatioÌ„ saithe that I seeme to seperate the people from the election of the ministers for that I will not haue the worde church in the Adm. comprehend the people which is manifestly againste that I set downe For I precisely reprehended hym for that vppon the worde church vsed off the Admon he woulde haue mainteined his false insinuation againste them that the election should perteine to the people onely consideringe that the word church cited off him was the vvhole and the people one parte and necessarily comprehended vnder it This is not onely falsifyinge but flat facynge Nowe to retourne backe I aske what he needed twife in this diuision in so many and greuous wordes complaine off corrupte dealinge seinge him selfe flatly affirmeth asmuch as I saie of him and otherwise caÌ„ not mainteine his cause The truth is that he absteined then from the wordes electinge and onely bycause he sawe he had nothinge to mainteine them which nowe by my replie he was driuen to put downe or els to forsake his cawse Wherin as he dissenteth from the trwth so he is driuen to haue a newe combat with him selfe in that he heere maketh yt indifferent and at the discretion of the church in tyme of persequution to make elections ether by one or by the multitude which is contrary to that he hath before in thes wordes Lastly in time of persequution when they haue no magistrate they be all equall nether is one bound to obey another by any ciuill lawe none hath cheiff and especiall care ouer the reste as magistrate to compell wherfore yt can not be otherwise then but that such offices should be chosen by common consente Where he alledgeth Zuing. and Bull. owt of place and contrary to the title of his chap. to proue the callinge of certeine by one Apostle because they be Euangelistes vvhich wee haue no vse off and for that I haue shewed that they both are clearly of this Iudgement that the minister owght to be chosen with consent off the church I will not much busie my selfe with this matter But althowgh the Apostles did send thes Euangelistes off their Embassages to knowe howe the churches did and such lyke thinges as required no tariance nor execution off any set ministrie in the churches wherunto they where sent yet that they euer set them to rule any congregation by their priuate autoritie is not to be estemed wheroff this is an apparant reason that Timothe was not set ouer the church off Ephesus by Saint Paule onely seinge that Paule confesseth that he receiued imposition off handes by the eldership Thother also here mentioned beinge Euangelistes it is like the order vsed in one was in thother Nether doo the wordes I lefte the at Creta proue it for he doth not saie that he ordeined him and if he had yet it muste be vnderstanded that he did ordeine him as he had doone in other churches with consente off the church And that this is not my iudgement yt maie appeare by that I haue alledged owt off Caluine and Musculus in the former booke aÌ„d Bez. in this nether could Bull. be thought to haue here such meaniÌ„g as the D. giueth him that the Apostles alone should sett ouer the churches ministers as appeareth by that I haue alledged So that onles he will make Bullinger contrary vnto him selffe thes wordes that Paule and Peter called certeine can not be vnderstanded off placinge them ouer any congregation no further then being cheife in that action they directed the iudgemeÌ„t of the churches there remaineth zuinglius which I meruaile the D. will charge me with seinge he himselffe will not stande to him in the place which he hath alledged For that which he hath lefte owt off Mathias chosen by the vvhole church is directly againste that which he hath in diuers places before affirmed After many vaine wordes againste the replie vnto the places off Timothe as that it is against thauthoritie off learned writers against the whole course off
great triumphes of For the first off the places it appeareth how Chrysost there called Iohn elder of the church of Antioche was chosen bishop of Constantinople by cōmē voice of all both people and clergy and how he had his election ratified by the Emperour Arcadius For the seuēth booke yt appeareth that Chrysanthus was chosen bishop off Costantinople by the people And when as Sabbatius because Chrysanthus hid himself and would haue none off the bishopricke gat certeine bishops to ordeine him into yt the story sheweth how the people sowght Chrysanthus owt and put owt Sabbatius diuers other exāples there be which I leaue as I would also haue doon thes if it had not bene to haue shewed the vaine triumphes off the D. And where he saith that there is nothing in those 6. and 7. of Euseb which maketh mentiō of any electiō by the people but in one onely which he goeth about to wipe a way that thow maiest know the D. changeth not his skin I will note them in a word To leaue therfore the election made by reuelation where he saith the election was made by the ministers and pastors yt is manifest that the churches had to doo in the electiōs For in the indorcemēt of the letters wherby an other was appointed at Antioche into Samosatenus roume as well autority off the churches is pretended as off the bishops elders and deacons Where also he would clude the other place firste because it was a miracle then for that by the word brethren it is not certeine whether the people were noted for the first yt may appeare how vaine yt is seing the story saith the brethren came together to chuse a bishop The miracle therfore which came vnloked for off them and after they were assembled was to direct them in their election and not to authorise them to chuse For autority they had before els they would not haue come together for that purpose As for the other it is a boldnes too insufferable withowt shewing any one exāple and contrary both vnto the phrase off the scripture and aucient fathers shewed in my former booke and off Eusebius him self as may appeare diuers times in some one chapter In all thes sentences set downe owte of Euseb there is not a worde for the D. nor againste vs The D. cōsesseth that Origine tawght beinge a laie man in the church publikely he can not denie if he woulde but that he tawght by the appointment off bishoppes Thes two beinge put what followeth but that in those daies he was counted a laie man which toke vppon him the ministerie vppon the bishoppes appoinctinge onelye And that he abuse not his reader with such rouinge treatises my reson I will set downe in a fewe wordes That appointement vnto the ministrie which was thowght not to inhable to be minister was thowght insufficient but the appointement off the bishops onely was thowght not to inhable to be minister for Origene that had that appoinctement and authoritie vvas still coumpted a laie man therfore that authoritie onely was then thowght insufficient Eusebius therfore giuinge me this houlde which the D. is driuen vvhether he will or no to confesse ▪ there is wherwith to vpholde that I haue saide For if the bishops appointment off Origine to preach did not gyue him any degree in the ministrie for what cawse did it not except yt be it at I haue assigned his trāslatiō of Euse words whē he was yet not ordeined minister wherin another point off this matter standeth is not warrāted For by this means he must take one of his wordes which properly signifieth the choise by lifting vp and vsed sometimes of eccesiasticall writers for laying on of hands for a degree which hathe no example Likewise he must take the other vvhich I haue shewed to signifie the company of all the gouernours off the church for the office off one onely elder which wanteth proofe Beside that Muscul which translateth yt semeth to haue folowed the sence I haue where if he had folowed the D. he would haue doone otherwise For in steed of he had not appoinctmēt of the eldership he would haue saied the degree of an elder Where he alledgeth that Demetrius suffred hym to teach at Alexandria when he was a laie man belike therby to proue that the reprehension of Demetrius was not to be regarded which did himselfe that he found faulte with in other yt maketh nothinge to this question For yt is enowghe to that in hande that yt is confessed bothe by Demetrius and Eusebius Which taketh the defense off those whom Demetrius rebuked that Origene was a laie man althowghe appoincted to the preachinge off the vvorde by the Bishops Whether yt be lawfull for a laie man to teache the worde off God in publike place is an other question The nexte sect I leaue to the iudgmente of the reader Of this greate heape which foloweth the moste parte haue bene broughte before some foure times at the leaste they haue bene thresshed and there is no yelde it shal be seen that the rest are no better then their fellowes the places off scripture alledged heere are all answered sauing onely that of the Actes 13. which is borrowed of Hosius who vseth this place againste the choise by the church For answer wherunto I saie that it is nor question there off such election as wee spake off that beinge the election off God and not off the church I for my parte rather thinke that it was the voice off God by the Prophetes or one off the prophetes and for proofe alledge the storie in the Crome which may be cōmētary to this For as the church thē in distresse by publike praier and faste receiued comforte throwghe a Prophet whom the Lorde sodenly in the myddeste off the congregation raised amongeste them euen so the church off Antioche beinge in great distresse and feare off ruine off the church off God partly by the sworde and famine partly by contentions and serchinge remedy by puhlike praier and faste receiued by a Prophet which the lord stirred vpp amongeste them this oracle wherby he shewed them a singular meanes not onely to mainteine but to amplifie the borders off the kingdome off Christe If the S. will not receiue this interpretation but take the holy gost to haue sounded immediatly from heauen yet it helpeth him nothing there was no place lefte for any election but needes muste Paule and Bar. besent Iff therfore the bishop haue the spirite off prophecie at any time wherby he may haue such a certeine and vnfallible direction as this was wee will les sticke with him for his sole election Iff not yt is in vaine to alledge this example sauinge that it maketh much againste him For if the lorde woulde haue the approbation off the whole companie of Doctors and elders in that election vvhich him selfe had made and vvhere there was no daunger off error howe
signification should be followed for part of the writers of canonicall bookes as of Iosue Iudges Sam. Chron. Kinges c. are vnknowen To that wherin the booke is charged for lifting vp of diuers cha of the Apocrypha to be red as extra ordinary lessons vppon feast daies vvherin there are greatest assemblies some chap. off canonicall scripture being not red at all he answereth not a word but leaueth it to speake for it self Seing then the scripture precisely forbiddeth to ordeine a pastor not fit to teach and bare reading off homilies is conuenient off holy scriptures insufficient to saue the people by which are the cruches wherewith the D. would vphould this lame ministery it followeth together with the shamefull absurdities off reading to be preaching to be as good yea better then preaching that vnpreaching pastors as the pestilence off the church owght to be throwen owt Now I retourne backe to the 7. Tract off Ministers apparell wherunto albeit I was determined as may appeare to reply yet considering after that this cawse hath bene so fully debated both by bookes in print and other treatises written in the handes of as many as desire after them considering also that the D. second answer beside false accusations as that men haue learned off me and my parteners to esteme the surplis c. corrupt in them selues c. open facing downe off thinges in knowledge off all men as that none are hindred one iot from comming to the gospell by prescript apparell bare affirmacions withowt proofe as that no minister making conscience off wearing thapparell will rather weare it moued by example off other then by the law which commaundeth it almost continuall reasoning not to the matter which he cowardly dissembleth as that Prophetes which were extraordinary ministers had an extraordinary apparell which is not denied which traine taken at the beginning is followed to the end triumphes in his owne shame â—â— appeareth in the place off Salomons Ecclesiastes I say beside thes considering that he hath almost nothing at all not before answered and that he hath not fetched from any treasury off good learning but as taken vp by the highe way sideâ— and considering that we haue this question with very few him the Papistes or those which haue already cast an eye vnto the papistes onely excepted with whom to trauaill in this point before their other gale be purged were to heale the skinne and leaue the bones still broken all thes things considered with that that it may better appeare we take not these thinges for the greatest matter we coÌ„plaine of I thowght good to tread this treatise vnder my foot and to saue some good howres which might be lost in vnripping this beggery That I saie off hauing this question with very few him c. excepted I meane in that where he saith the surplis square cap and tippet be most conuenient decent and comely others in whom there is any loue off the truth confesse it a weed vnmeet for a minister of the gospell which not able to root owt they are for certeine causes content to beare with And althowgh destitute off answer he plie his matter with accusatioÌ„s of disobedieÌ„ce and conteÌ„pt of magistrate yet I doubt not but with all indifferent our open and simple profession off the necessitie off higher powers and off the honour and humble submission to Her Maiestie and all magistrates vnderneth her ether in doing thinges commaunded or patiently suffring for that which we can not with good conscieÌ„ce doo shall be sufficient defense especially seing that euen in this matter off apparell it is confessed that obedience owght to be giuen where the commaundement is with iniury to the ministery As for the D. ether error or flattery that in thinges indifferent commaunded by the Magistrate we owght not to haue such regard to the offense off the weake but that if all should be offended that is to say perish and make shipwracke off conscience for that is the offense which S. Paul and we after him speake off yet we owght to doo that which is commaunded the Magistrate being therby lifted aboue the Lord we vtterly condemne Considering it being a flat commaundement off the holy gost that we absteine from thinges in their owne nature indifferent if the weake brother should be offended no autoritie ether off church or commen wealth can make yt voide And where the magistrates commaunding and owr obedience vnto him owght to be squared owt first by the loue off God then off men our brethren especially this new carpenter as one that frameth his squire according to his tymber and not his timber according to the squire will make our obedience to the cyuill Magistrate the rule off the loue off God and our brethren So that in steed that he should teach that we may obey no further vnto the magistrate then the same wil agree with the glory off God and saluation off our brethren he teacheth that in thinges off their owne nature indifferent we must haue no further regard nether to saluacion off our bethren nor to the glory off God which in neglect of their saluacion is troden vnder food then will agree with doing that the magistrate commaundeth But I am gone further then I thowght seing there caÌ„ hardly be any so symple which perceiueth not easely both the fondnes and absurdity off his answers in this question The replie to the D. 8. Tract off Archbishopes and Bishopes Vnto the firste and seconde diuision being beside the question I answer nothing Before I come to the thirde forsomuche as the place off the Euangelistes which is before is generall and striketh at all the loftie and swelling titles off the ministrie I will set it here downe in the foreward off the reasons browghte againste the names off Archbishopes c. as that which speaking againste all the smoky names muste nedes comprehende thes In the D. answer therfore wherby he goeth aboute to proue that thes wordes gratious or bountifull Lordes make nothing againste the great names and magnifical titles off the ministers this is the firste that Saint Marke and Muthewe haue no wordes bearing any suche sense Wherunto I answer that as yt is a generall rule almoste throwghowte the scripture that repetitions are not withowt some vsury and increase so in the writinges of the EuaÌ„gelistes yt is to be obserued almost euery where And therfore yt owghte not to haue bene strange if other Euangelistes speaking off the autoritie onely S. Luke added also touching the titles Secondly he answereth this clawse yt shall not be so vvith yovv is not referred vnto those wordes are called bountifull and benefyciall but vnto ambition and tyraÌ„nical dominioÌ„ onely wherunto I answer firste that forsomuch as the things there affirmed of the Ministers and the worde off gracious Lordes is as well affirmed off kinges as the worde off bearinge dominion therfore those wordes yt shall not be so
the places harde by and lykewise a deacon three which together with their owne bishop should haue autoritie to heare and determine the causes in debate Now if for euery accusation of a bishop there were assembled 12. bishops at the least and that when the matter required haste for euerie accusation of an elder six and off a Deacon three beside their owne bishop and that those might be taken in places harde by all men maye vnderstande that there was more neighbourhood in bishops then is nowe and that yt behoued that those bishops dwelte within no greate compas which might be assembled with suche commoditie For if we shoulde imagine the same condition off bishops then which is nowe how euill aduised should the Councell haue bene to cawse so manie bishops to come so farre with so greate charges with suche longe absence from their churches with suche delaie and suspence off the purgation off them whose speedie dispatche stoode so greatly vpon the glorie off God and edification of their churches Herof yt may easely be seene that this blessing and gifte of God in hauing off a bishop rained not onely vpon greate cities and greate townes but euen ouer litle borowghes and villages where there was a sufficiente congregacion hable to mainteine this mynisterie off the worde And althowghe there be diuerse cawses why the aunciente stories doo not so often make mention of the bishopes of vplandishe townes as that in those tymes of persequution a nomber off them did scarcely yelde one sufficiente companie hable to mainteine the mynisterie off the worde and that by all likelihoode the countrey men rownde abowte made their resorte vnto the good townes nexte them which had a bishop and for that the stories for the moste parte keepe the memorie onely of the moste famous bishops which by godly policie off the churche were placed in the moste peopled townes yet notwithstanding yt ys not harde to shew diuers which are expressedly called bishops off small townes or villages As off one Zorâ—cus Bishop of the village of Coman of Mares Bishop of a small towne called Dolicha of Asclepius Bishop of a small towne in Africa and of others vvhich partly I haue alredy shewed owte off the testimonie off Ierome and partly shall be shewed God willing in discouse off Cyprians testimonies I leaue also to speake of Gregorie bishop of a small cytie called Nazâ—anzum of an other which was priest of the Castle Cumane that is Bishop both which are as well forbidden as to haue a bishop in a village I followeth to shewe vpon what cawses and by what meanes the churche so fruictfull in Bishops became afterwarde so baren wheroff albeit yt is moste certein that the principall cause was the wrathe off the lord who angrie with his churche sente suche a dearthe yet the doings off men which God had disposed of wisely for the accomplishement of his counsell towchinge the man of synne were partly vnaduised partly proceeding off ambicion and that not alwaies after one sorte but taking encrease and gathering strenght with the time So that the ambition which at the first was kepte in some awe and restraincte in the ende brake owte and shewed yt selfe as yt were bare faced In the Africane Councell yt appearethe that before a certeine lawe made of the Emperour whersoeuer aÌ„d in what diocese soeuer there was a churche off Donatistes conuerted vnto the Catholike churche that those proselytes and conuertes had a Bishop of their owne and the Councell there confessethe that they deserued so to haue Wherupon yt folowethe that how many churches so euer off the Donatistes were conuerted so manie Bishops at the leaste there might be in one onely diocese And if this were a good lawe and equall as the Councell confessethe what cause can be assigned why yt shoulde be taken awaie as appeareth yt vvas afterward In the second Councell of Carthage yt vvas decreed that those dioceses which had no bishops should haue none aÌ„d those which had should kepe their proper Bishop Notwithstanding if the number off the faithfull should encrease in that diocese that the people desyring a Bishop if the bishop of the diocese consented therunto might haue another bishop Now in that the Councell ordeined that there should be no bishops in that diocese where there had bene none yt is apparaÌ„te that their dioceses were not the tweÌ„tith parte so large as ours For is there any likelihoode consideringe the nomber off the bishops before proued that the Councell woulde decree that there should be no bishop within 30. or 40. myles as it is with vs And when it ordeineth that in that diocese where there was a bishop alredy the nomber of the faithfull encreasing there might be at the instance off the churches and consente of the bishop other bishops ordeined yt vttereth the cause vvhy diuerse parishes rounde abowte vvere the diocese of one bishop namely for that here and there in this aÌ„d that towne there vvas scarce gleaned owte a sufficient number off those which hauing giuen their names to the gospell were hable to make one sufficiente congregatioÌ„ to maintein the ministrie And therfore ordeined that wheÌ„ the harueste of the faithefull should be more plentifull in those places then also counsell might be taken off moe Bishops Wherupon vve may gather this to haue bene a cause of this scarcitie that it being lefte alwaies in the discretion off the Bishop vvhether he vvoulde haue any moe Bishops throwghe Ambicion yt came to passe that the nombre off Christians increasing they woulde not suffer the people to haue moe bishops but ordeining them Elders and Deacons together with the name off the Bishop reteined vnto them selues a greate parte off the autoritie and gouernement to other belongyng And this ys that vvhich that excellent Martir of God William Tindall shortly noted vvhen the multitude off Christians encreased and the church vvas endovved vvith greate possessioÌ„s the bishops made theÌ„ substitutes vvhich they called preistes and kept the name of Bishop vnto them selues And how vnhappely it was lefte in the Bishops choise ether to suffer another bishop to be instituted or no in his diocese maie appeare by this shameful ambition vvhich euen theÌ„ beganne to shew yt selfe For so far vvas yt that they vvoulde departe vvith any already gotten that they assaied to encroche and sometimes by stronge hande vpon the boundes off others as appeareth by the manifolde debates which they had one with another aboute their precinctes testified in the booke of Councells Another cause off this dearthe was an order taken amongest theÌ„ that where in Afrike there were greate swarmes of Donatiste heretikes and other straungers from the churches as euery Bishop gained those foreners vnto the churche so he enioyed them Which thinge extended not onely vnto euery ones owne diocese but also to other dioceses if the other Bishop were somewhat sluggishe in that behalfe which what a greate
Wherby also foloweth that where the popular estate or the rule of the beste beareth swaie they can not althowghe they vvould haue an archbishop yea herupon foloweth that ether the Canterbury or Yorke archbishop muste leese his head For yt is concluded off his highe diuinitie that as there is but one prince in the whole Realme so there muste be but one Archbishop His reason the Prince can not els be supreme gouernour off all estates and causes ecclesiasticall to say no more is senseles and hath no knot with that wherunto yt belongeth As if vvhen Roome had both Emperours and consules the Emperour could not be cheife gouernour off the consuls because the Consuls were equall amongest themselues I confessed yt vnconuenient that there should be one Caesar ouer the worlde but that yt may be he alledgeth Caluin that yt is moste absurd to what pourpose what contrarietie is here yt is enowghe for me that there may be and that lawfully a Prince of larger extent of dominion then the archbishop of his archbishopricke althowghe the prince vvould graunte yt him which vtterly ouerthroweth his cause and this being alledged off me afterward is clean passed by For his defense consisteth in this that the Popes widenes off iurisdiction ouer churches ys vnlawfull because he hath yt not of the gifte off Princes and in this that the externall gouernement of the church must be according to the forme and kinde off gouernement in the commen wealth Which is also manyfestly confuted there whence he hath borowed this temony For there he addeth that althowgh yt were graunted that there might be one Caesar ouer all the worlde yet yt followeth not that there may be one bishop ouer all the churches which notwithstanding muste needes folowe if the externall gouernement off the church muste be according to that forme and kinde off gouernement vsed in the commen wealth a For the distinction which supposeth certein ministers of the word and Sacramētes onely and certein to haue to gether with the administration off them the gouernemente also I refer the reader to that before written his vaine cauil that I desire to be vncontrolled off any but off God is answered The D. accuseth me off falsehood for that I charge bim with citing Augustine and Crysostome at large Towching Augustine that he vvas so alledged appeareth firste pag. 583. and both he and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he vsed that large quotacion onely once in Muscul Cyril and M. Fox he coulde hardly doo yt oftner in the two laste considering that as I remember he alledgeth them once onely but towching Muscul beside the place I charge him with he lefte his aduersary twise to his wide worckes Where he remembreth not that he sendeth to any other writers but with places quoted as particularly as he could his memory vvhich is so miraculouse at other times is here but miserable To helpe yt beside this place off Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes vvithowt any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. againe pag. 74. in his former booke for he hath quoted yt in this later Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon withowt any direction pag. 344. Also alledgeth Gratian Polidore Volateran vvithowte any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towardes th end off his booke to the large feilde off godly interpreters that diuers times he gyueth the booke onely where he might gyue the chap. the chap. onely where he mighte giue the section all which are contrary to that he setteth downe Wherby may appeare what a hard mouth he hath and howe I speake sparingly off this kinde off allegation off his Charged heere by his fonde allegacion off Cal. Institut he answereth I knew there were sundry editions I did so but whether yt be absurd that he should leaue both the beste and moste vsual to take that which is worse and in the handes of fewe onles he mente to play vnder the boorde that men should not vnderstand I leaue to the readers iudgement His reason he had noted yt laboured it and was acqainted with yt is very simple For is yt meete that because he had made his booke a litle heuier with yncke he should be wedded so to yt as to neglecte the commen commoditie how he is acquainted with yt I knowe not but I trust yt hath and shall appeare that there is no more frendship betwene him and his booke in thes matters then betwene light and darknes But yt is foly to reason with him for he addeth Doctorlike that he both hath and will so vse yt still Howbeit how cometh yt to pas that euen in his former booke he hath alledged the later edition belike ether that was some tributary allegacion or els the latter was better to him there then his noted one Howe vniustly he chargeth me with vncerteine direction in ether all or the moste off thes he setteth downe I leaue to be iudged off that I haue said in that behalfe The reste off this diuis with the nexte is nothing but bare and bould affirmacions reproches and repetitions The nexte to it hath nothing but trifling and vnlerned questions before answered That set downe off the inconuenience off many speaking together according to the prouerbe many may sing but not speake at once is not as he saith needles but made way to the necessitie of hauing one which otherwise equal should haue some preheminence in that action The next hath nothing but railing wordes with repetition off repetitions and that beside the matter considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly off ministers I put not as alwais obserued off the D. Bishops and Archbishops but as those which owghte to be In asking scripture for proofe he dalieth seeking for that he would not find as the scholer the rod he must be beaten with The cocke a glorious and proud birde which will not suffer his victorie to be hidden but proclameth yt forthwith by crowing yet if he be ouercome hideth him selfe Wherin he sheweth a great deale more modestie then the D. which althowgh he haue neuer a spur of argument ether to defend him self or to offend his aduersary yet croweth as high as if the maistrie were in his hande But let yt goe let vs see his fighte To that I alledgrd of Peter chosen by the other Apostels to moderate the two firste actions notwithstanding yt be not set downe he answereth yt is wicked to grounde thalteration of the archbishop and our bishops gouernemente continued long and practised in the beste times of the church withowt yea contrary to the ground off scripture The long continuance onles they haue salte off the worde off God to preserue them argueth they be rotten and suche as caste an euill sauour That they were not in the beste times off the church hath before appeared whether yt haue ground owte off the worde that Peter was chosen by the Apostels
Psal 122. 3 Euseb 6. li 9. 10 20 21. Ca 18. Plut. in vit Lycur 1. Tim. 3 10. 1. Cor. 9. 16. Chap. 3. Tract 6. pag. 255. Eze. 44. 8 pag. 153. Math. 24. 45. Math. 13 52. Ad Oceanum pa. 2â—2 pa. 484. Diuis 3. 253. 1 Tim. 3. 2 Tit. 1. 9. Mat 13. 52 1. Tim. 3. 1 Diuis 2. pag. 44. Rom. 15. 14. Heb. 3. 13. Cap. 4. vers 6. Diuis 4. pag. 260. Iam 5. 14. Lu. 9 c 2. Pag. 133. Math. 10. 16. 17. Math 28. â—â— Diuis 15. Cypr. l. 3. epist. 1. 2. Tracte accordiÌ„g to the D. Diuis 16. pag. 484. Heb. 13. 5. Agg. 2. 9. Diuis 17. Pag. 484. Lib. de Past Greg. Epist 1. 33. Esay 56. 10. 4. Eph. 11 Diuis 1. pag. 568. pag. 717. Diuis 2. Pag. 969. Diuis 3. pag. 569. Rom. 10. 14. 1. Cor. 1. 21. Rom. 10. 15. Esa. 52 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diuis 4. 570. 1. Gal. 8. 9. a Psa 191. b 1. Ro. 23 c 1. Ro. 18 d Iere. 10. 14 Abac. 2. 18. e Iob. 12. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 6. 26 f Io. 1. 5. 21 Diuis 5 â–ª pag. 571. Ioh. 3 14. Diuis â— Pag. 172. Iohn 12. 32. Gal. 3. 1. Diuis 6. pag. 572. 2. Cor. 2. 16. 2. Tim. 2. 15. 24. 27. 32. Math. 16. 19. Diuis 7. pa 722. 1. Cor 3. 6 Pou. 29. 18. pag. 577. pag. 576. Apoc. 11. 3. Diuis 8. Pag. 573. Heb. 11. 6. Ro. 10. 14 Ro. 10. 14 â— Cor. 21. Ro. 1. 14. Act 8. vers 31. Diuis 9. pag. 574. Pag. 717. Ephes 2. Math. 6. 16. c. 1. Ro. 1â— Diuis â— pag. 575. 569. 2. Cor. 2 15. Heb. 4. 12 Diuis 2. pag. 576. 1. Tim 32 Is 50. 4. Malach. 2. 7. Exod 6. 12. Diuis 3. pag. 576. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Ro. 15. Diuis 4. pa 577. Deut 27. 2. 3. 6. 9 11. 20. 21. Diuis 4. pag. 570. vers 3. 4. 8. NeheÌ„ 7. 8. Luk. 4. 17 c. Act. 13. 15 15. 21. vers 12. Diuis 5. Pag 577. Act. 15. 21 Pag. 784. in diu 10. pag. 243. Pag. 297. Exod. 30. 29. Num. 10. 2. Heb 8. 9. Num. 10. 8. Is 58. 1. Rom. 10. 15. pag. 718. Ibi. diu 5. Gal. 4. 14 2. Cor. 5. 20. Diuis 5. Pag. 718. Hieron in catal illustriuÌ„ script 3. lib 16. Lib. 3. 27. Lib. 2. 23. Lib. 3. 3. pa 720. Diuis 6. pag. 720. Diuis 7. pag. 71â— 59 can In the def Apolo 5. part 3. cha 10. dluis chap. 38. Diuis 8. Pag. 721. In his Opusc Apoc. 〈◊〉 li. 1. c 2 c â—sdâ— â— 2. Gen. 34. 2â— Gen 49 5 Iudith 9. 2. 3. 4. a Chap. 4â— 20. b Luk. 16 22. c Dan. 3. 23. 25. Apoc. 14. 13. d ver 49. off the 3. childrens song e Ecclesiasticus 31 21. f Macha 2. 2. 1. c. g 2. 14. 38. 42. h 2. 15. 39. i ad Laetam k Ierom. In praef in Dan. ibid. Ieron praef in prou Pag. 256. in 32. sec pag. 28. Pag. 256. 257. 258. 262. pag. 25â— 285. Diuis 4. pag. 258. 1. Cor. 8. 7. 11. Rom. 14. 50. 20. Rom. 14. 15. 21. 1. Cor. 8. 12. Math. 20. Luk. 22. In the 1. tract Diuis 1. Pag. 63. Luk. 22. 25 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Math. 20. 25. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ethick 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vpon theÌ„ 13. off the Actes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diuis 3. pag 300. in 5. diui Pag. 32. 1. Pet. 5. 4 13. Ebr. 17 1. Cor. 3. 8 1. Cor. 12. 1. 5. Mat. 11. 11 2. Cor. 10. 3. 4. 1. Cor. 4 â–ª 23. 1. Cor. 11. 3. 1. Cor. 15. 27. 28. 4. Diuis 301. Ephes 1. 21. 1. Col. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De simplicitate praelat Apol. 2. part 2. c. diuis 1. Li. 1. contra liter Petil. c. 5 Li. 3 contra liter Pet. c. 42. epist. 32. Institut li. 4. ca. 6. sect 9. vpon the 7. ca. off Amos. Pigh hierar ecclesiast li. 3. ca. 4. Harding in the def of the Apol part 2 oâ— diu 2 â–ª Diuis 3. pag 300. Pag. 18â— pa 30â— 1. Cor. 1â— 24. Diuis 19. Pag. 310. Pag. 630. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In def Apol part 6 â–ª cap. 4. Diuis 2. Daniel 10. 13. Colos 1. 16. Bez. confess ca. 5. artic 23. Diuis 5. pag. 302. pag 62. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gen. 10. 31. 32. Deut. 32. 28. Psal 43. 1. Math. 28. 19. Act. 10. 35. Luk. 7. 5. Act. 4. 3. 5. 1. c. 9. 1. 2. Philip. 2. 7. Rom 13. 4. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 13. 36 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Corin. 45. Psal 2. 11. 18. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb 13 7. Diuis 2. pag. 64. In the def off the Apol. part 6. c. 11. diuis 4. 5. Defens Apol. ib. * Diuis 3. Pa 65. c a 57. serm in Apoc. 5. Dec. 2. serm b Praef. in Eccles c VpoÌ„ the place 1. Act. d MelaÌ„ vt apparet 9 × 16. cont Pighij d Heming as appeareth 419 pa. alledged in my former booke f 5. li. Hierar 5. c. 8. 16. cont de potest eccles Enchi 58 ca. Vpon 24. Math. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In this Thesau Artic 4. diuis 31. Diuis 4. pag. 69. Ioh. 14. 30. 6. Ephes 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Tim. 4. 12. In his Thes In 1. diui off this chap. Lib. 1. de coelo 1. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diuis 5. Pag. 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hesychius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chap. 24 Diuis 1. Pag. 72. Diuis 7. pag 303. Nom. 12. 6. Math. 11. â— 13. 1. Luk. 76. 1. Ioh. 23. Mat. 21. 25 Diuis 10. pag. 304. Nomb. 18 4. pag. 137. in 4. diu off this chap. Rom. 7. 6 1. Chron. 24. 6. Math. 13. 52. Math. 23. 34. 22. 35. 12. 28. Calu. vp 4. Act. 28. Iohn 3 4. Act. 1. Diuis 11. c. pag. 305. c. 7. Act 44 Heb. 8. 5. Gen. 6. cap. 16. 1. Chron. 24. 19. 2. Chron. 29. 25. Pag. â—â—â— Diuis 14. Pag. 307. Math. 11. 11. 2. Cor. 3. Rom. 10. 14. Diuis 15. pag 307. Ephes 4. 13. 1. Timot. 4. 16. Diuis 17. pag. 308. Diuis 18. pag. 309. Diuis 19. Pag. 310. pag. 137. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diuis 1. art 4. Diuis 20. pag 311. In 2. Tractat pag. 351. Diuis 1. Diuis 21. pag. 311. In 3. diui Pag. 231. Ad Euagr Diuis 25. Pag. 313. Act. 20. 28. Act. 20. c. 17. v. Diuis 26. pag. 314 Diuis 27 pag. 314. Diuis 30. pag. 316. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 18. diu pag. 309. Diuis 31. Pag 317 in diui 10 pag. 304. in 3 Tra Diuis 32 pag. 318. Deut. 12. 32. Apoc. 22. 19. Chap. 2. Diuis 1. pag. 319. pag. 4â—â— Diuis 3. pag. 320. pag. 317. pag. 318. Pag. 587. Pag. 361. pag. 325. In the same place in 2.
The second replie of Thomas Cartwright agannst Maister Doctor Whitgiftees second answer touching the Churche Discipline Isay 62. vers 1. For Syons sake I will not hould my tonge and for Ierusalems sake I will not reste vntill the righteousnes therof break forth as the light and the saluation therof be as a burning lampe Ibid. vers 6. 7. Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers kepe not silence and gyue him no rest vntill he repaire and set vp Ierusalem the praise off vvorld Imprinted M. D. LXXV To the Churche off England and all that Loue the trueth in yt Thomas Cartwright Wisheth mercy and peace from God our Father and from our Lorde Iesus Christe THe Church off God so ofte vs scripture not compared onely but figured in the Citie Ierusalem serueth for instruction in this cause For as in yt the wal first broken downe was last made vp againe and that more then 14. yeares after the temple builded so is yt commenly in the spirituall wal off the churche whiche is the discipline the lorde appointed aswel for strenght of yt as for houlding out of all aduersarie power whether yt be corruption off doctrine or manners The first is to be seen in the Act. of thapostles where after the churches gathered by preaching there was an eldership seuerally placed in them to whom the execution of the church discipline doth especially appertain The other may as easily appear to him that considereth the estate off the churche after the Apostles by monuments off those times in which allwaies as this fort off gouernement left by them was first suffred to decaie so the purenes of doctrine decreased vntill the churche yt selfe except a few stones here and there scattered was browght to heapes off dust Yf yâ— be asked why the discipline hauing right to entre with the doctrine findeth not alwaies that fauour amongest men The cause â—s apparant that when Satan can not gain this first point to houlde the doctrine owt off a city or Kingdome he sweareth after the second that yt may be there with smallest fruict and shortest continuance Wherin let I beseche yow be considered his doings against the building off the wal off Ierusalem For if he bestirred himself so in hindering that materiall wal it wil be les meruaile yf for hinderance off this spirituall he trudge to and fro open his whole pack off subtilties and as yt is in prouerb bestovv both â—vet and dry And first touching the persons he vseth in his fight against both they are not much vnlike For in steed off a bastard kinde off Israelites Apostataes from God and his tru seruice which were there the foreine enemies we haue now the Papistes who as shal appear he set in the forward of this battail against the discipline now propounded And as now we haue within the church whiche couered with the name off the gospel and off the teachers theroff giue a more daungerous assault then the Papistes So were there then euen off the Iewes them selues vnder gouerners and Prophetes which secretly and openly opposed them selues As for the practises they are so like in bothe that all which will open their eies maie easely espie the same workeman For as the enemies then placed their cheef strenght in accusations against the church that yf it vvere suffered to laie the foundacioÌ„s of the vval it vvould moue seditioÌ„ and rebel against the Kinge euen so our aduersary to arme the Prince against this cause soundeth nothing more then rebellion sedition and suche like Yf this were not able to discrie or at least to giue warning off this vnfaithfull dealing yet this may That these are the verie weapons off the papistes which not able amongest vs with so great succes to be vsed by them selues as those which are knowne enemies haue bene ministred to the D. that being throwne owte off his hand in whose mouthe is the gospell they might be thowght to haue bene made for defence which were forged for ouerthrow of yt For where Brentius teacheth that the ministers owght not to beare dominion ouer the churches like princes Hosius accuseth him that by the same meane he vvent about to displace Caesar And vpon like occasion that vve vvould ouerthrovv al kingdomes and superiority that men might doe vvat they liste That yf the Almans had once shaken off the Pope they vvould shake off Caesar sone after Yf these be compared with diuers off the D. accusations and namely with that page 455. lin 1. yt will be meruail that onles he were in this point taught by the same spirit Hosius was he could iump so euen not onely with the like accusation but almost with the same wordes But this shall better appeare in discours off this boke where ys shewed not onely that he hathe the like but the verie self same cause with the grossest Papistes I say the grossest for that in some pointes as off the churches election and pastorall residence there are found off them more fauorable to the trwth then he which ioining with Catholike writers both ould and of our time haue written against the estate off the Popish churche in that behalf And that no mans simplicity be abused by an owtward profession off the gospell as thowgh yt were vnlike that they which professed yt should be enimies to the trwe discipline or vncredible that the same whiche cry out off the Tyranny off Antechrist shoulde refuse the moderat and wholsom gouernement of Christ yt may please them to vnderstand that this cause hathe before this bydden the assault not off the Papistes alone but euen off them which make shew off so deadly war with papistry that the greatest force of their resistance hathe bene a feare ether pretended or vainly phansied least the gyuing place to the discipline shoulde draw after yt the popishe Tyranny Capito a man off singuler learning and godlines affirmeth that it was obiected vnto them whiche vvente about to restore the discipline that they vvould be Tyrans ouer the churche vvhich vvas free and cal back againe a nvve popedome M. Bucer SataÌ„ goeth about that by restoring of the discipline the faithfull Ministers should be thovvght to seek ambitously the same Tyranny vvhich Antechrist did M. Beza vvhen the Eldership and excoÌ„municatioÌ„ vvere to be instituted there vvaÌ„ted not vvhich cried ovvt that the popish tyranny vvas by that meanes called back again also that the magistrats office vvas therby in parte inuaded Now if these slaunders be compared with the Answerers al may vnderstand that althowgh the instrments vsed against the discipline vary in tyme and countrie yet the autor misleading some by simplicitie and thrusting other headlong throwgh couetousnes or ambition ys the same in our countrey which was then in Germany Fraunce or Sanoy For that the discipline now propounded is the same whiche suffered this coÌ„tradiction off certein professors off the Gospell shall manifestly appear in this discours and may be
the way whom I iudged to be owt to light him a candle whom I saw in this poinct to grope in darcknes And if I did yt sharper then your tast can like off beside that bitter thinges are often wholesomer then sweet yow should not thinck muche to be stricken with the back off the sword which haue smitten others with the edge nor to be lightlie pricked vvith some empaire off your credit vvhich haueÌ„ thrust others throwgh in taking from them so muche as lay iâ— yow al opinion both of godlines and learning Yow doubt whether I meant good faith when I called yow a brother take heed lest in giuing no credit vnto others yow leaue no place for others to giue any to yow And if I had offended in these yet my vnthaÌ„kfulnes can not be great Yow neuer gaue me any thing in my bosome or secretly what yow haue giuen by sound off trump and openly can not be hidden But my reproches and as yow often cal them gybes can not be excused yt is not meet that I should my self sit in iudgement off my owne modestie yt ys vnreasonable also that yow the partie grieued should For as selfeloue may blinde mine eyes and as parents in their children not onely cause me not to see the blemishe but also to thinck yt an ornament so may displeasure dasel yours and cause your iudgement to decline to muche on the one side My conscience doÌ„th not hetherto accuse me in this behalfe others also whom this hath misliked vvil peraduenture be more fauourable if it be first considered that yow account diuers for pleasant speaches which are not therby to auoide that yow could not answer Of which sort is that 767. line 6. and 576. line 23. Secondly if yt be considered that yow take some thinges otherwise then I vvrote them For example where I note your homelie mirth of the curst wife and theef which stole the priests purse to haue bene vvith the baggipe and not vvith ether the harpe or lute yow expound it as thowghe I had taken my self to the countrey wherin yow were born Which verely I ment not but had regard onely to the greke prouerb wherof Tully maketh mention that those vvhich could not come to the honour to handle the harpe vvere content to vse the bagpipe Which is euident in that I oppose countrey not your countrey your mirthe to learned mirth Here also seemeth should be considered how yow haue â—oden vs vvith those reproches vvhich yow accuse me of Wherin not to waste paper in rehersall of all I will onely giue a tast of your later book for that off your other boke in which all know your intemperancie yow denie there is any suche thing because I gathered yt not Adders and Sepentes swarme amongest yovv pag. 50. A mind ful of reuengement 799. Ould rancour 2. Stomackes suche and arrogancy so great 12. Stomacke swelling 109. Boiling 56. Spirit of yowrs bursteth 37. He swelleth like the sea 423. Reueale that lump off arrogancye and ambition 467. deep dissembled hypocricie 467. A face puffed vp with arrogancy and vaineglorie 799. Maner off writing spitefull malitious contemptuous owtragious 12. Arrogant 32. Scoulding 12. pratling 512. lying 467. A shameles and wicked lie 422. Tonges vnnatural 6. VVauering wicked wretched 422. Hoat eloquence 409. Hoate Rhetoricke 45. Cynicall Rhetoricke 391. Lucians Rhetorick 489. Figure off lying 812. VVhether will this venemous mouthe reache 445. VVordes serpentine and viperous 422. He bloweth owt stormeth against me 56. Roreth like a Lyon 423. Off a diuine become a scorneful iester 577. Your veine off gybing and iesting 25. Flowting 91. Arrogant scoffs and frumpes 336. Heathnish floutes and frumpes 470. Boke pestered with moe stoutes and iestes then hardinges VVhat dronken poet prophane Philosopher or boy off grammer schole knoweth not c. 151. Heathnish confuting 25. Babishe abusing scripture 262. VVilfull deprauing 16. Conuicted wickednes 56. The Archbishop hathe cause to thanck yow for your gentilnes 374. A daunsing deuise 337. Suche a mightie man in scripture and so profound in all knowledge pag. 9. I suppose yow vse them as meanes to cast vp your melancholy which yow call zeale 39. But soft man a while yow do but dreame 209. Let him take all these wherof diuers are often repeated and if he be ashamed off them hide them yet for any word off reproche I haue vsed in either off my bookes I will finde both moe and more bitter in his later boke wheroff I haue not once made mention Where also it owght not to be forgotten how his second boke is as heauie with this kind off stuffe as his first yf not haeuier They say it is better to be beaten second because the hardnes off angre is commonly broken vpon the first But yt seemeth the Answerer dronck in more off his angre then he powred forth Lastly let it be considered whether his answers are for the most part so ridiculous that if he which is said to haue wept so muche had replied vpon him he could easelier haue houlden hoat coles in his mouth then haue absteined from those salt sayinges which he so sore complaineth off Here I omit that the scripture doth diuers times vse this kinde off reprehending Also that the most modest spirit off all the auncient writers not permitteth onely but as yt were exhortethe to a mercifull kinde off deriding So that the mind being pure the thing yt self vsed moderately to discredit sin can not be condemned His accusations vvhich touche the cause follow vvhere abbridging the magistrates autoritie often repeted but neuer proued shall be seen in the proper places There shall appeare that I haue browght it into no smaller roum then the vvord off God hath shut it and the best learned and godliest writers both nwe and ould haue plainly taught of yt In which point let yt be also here obserued how there be no wordes so fenced against all cauils vvhich the D. vvill not assay to depraue For vvhere I cited examples to proue that men are said to doo thinges wherof they are the cheif and principall and not the onely doers and amongest them alledged that off Moses which appointed officers by the peoples consent he feareth not to say that I therby pushe at the ciuil magistrat aÌ„d infinuat that the prince may not appoint vnder officers without the peoples election But let him answer what is the instrument wherwith I will not say I pushe but so much as towche yt with my litle fingar ys it because I say those gouernours were chosen with consent of the people the scripture as is after shewed doth manifestly proue yt Or did I euer teache it in pulpit mention it in disputation defend it in talk wherby these wordes might with more likelihood be haled vnto suche a sense what would this man haue done trow yow if I had as Maister Bullinger doth vpoÌ„ that place of Moses concluded that the
Beside that it is vntrew that all those kinges which I saide to haue caried the marke and spott off their imperfection suffred manifest Idolatrie as it appeareth in the example off kinge Asa Vnto the nexte section I answer nothing To the 13. sect pag. 9. GEinge the church off Christ gathered amonge the Iewes and S. Peter him selffe were ignorant off one of the greatest misteries off Christianitie concerning the maner off the calling off the Gentillee yt owght not to seme straunge vnto vs iff those famous Martirs were ignorant off some principall point commaunded by the word off god And iff it be replyed that this ignorance falleth not into the holie ordre off the martirs off Christ and that the lord leueth not those which are witnesses vnto death in ignorance off any such necessarie pointe Cyprian and Iustin Martyr wheroff besides other smaller errors the one helde that those which were baptized by the heretikes were to be baptized againe the other was a Chiliast aÌ„d said that the faithful should in the generall resurrection line with Christ here vppon earthe 1000. yeares I say these two godlie Martyrs are sufficient profes that the glorie off martyrdome dothe not free men from being in danger off ignorance off some necessarie doctrine commaunded in the scripture Origene if he were as it written off him a Martyr had so many and so grosse errors that he had neede haue verie fauourable interpretation to make him holde the fundation of Religion especially iff they be his workes whiche goo vnder his name And if it be further said that albeit those martyrs did erre in suche weightie matters yet it is to be supposed that before their deathes they chaunged opinion I saye that that can be by no likelihoode supposed For then vndowtedlie they would haue called backe their former opinions and not haue suffred them to the hurt off the church to haue liued after theredeathe If this be not sufficient to shew that godlie Maxtyrs maye remaine in the ignoraÌ„ce of some necessarie point of Religion our owne Ecclesiasticall stories do furnishe vs with diuerse examples off godlie Martyrs off all sortes and all times but especially in the beginning when the daie off the light off the Gospell beganne to peepe owt off that night off popishe darknes wherin we were who euen in there examinations before theire martirdome affirme the contrary off that wheroff we are clerely taught in the word of god I haue not the booke by me but I well remembre there mentioned of a notable man and off the later Martyrs which affirmeth a verie grosse descent off our sauior Christ into hell which is an error in one off the articles off our faithe Another graunting such a Purgatorie after this life as the papistes do imagine and others also diuerse failing in substantiall pointes of doctrine wherby whatsoeuer becommeth off this place off Nehemias yet that is trew which I set downe that both good men and learned and martyrs may not onely be ignorant but also holde the contrarie off some substantiall pointes off Religion So that iff the example which I vsed should not serue yet the doctrine which I set downe is trew and vnshaken yea sauing onelye a bare deniall vntouched And because the Answerer holdeth oute the Slidinges of the moste excellent seruantes of god to hide this vnfaithful dealing withe the church in this resistance against the trewth he must vnderstand that their want in these thinges is so farre from making his fault lesse that it shall weighe so much more to his condemnation by how much the lord hathe offred the knowledge off those thinges vnto him which he disdainefullie reiectinge would withowt all controuersie haue bene ioyfullie embraced off those blessed Martyrs And iff he had rather here this sentence off an other then off me it is that which Cyprian in a certeine Epistle writeth wher all this is confirmed when he saith That yff any off our predecessors either by ignorance or by simplicitie did not hold that vvhich the Lorde did by his commaundement and example teache that the Lord vvould forgiue that simplicitie But vnto vs saith he vvhich are admonished instructed there is no suche pardon lefte And althowghe he now whiteth there tombes withe a fewe faierr wordes yet it is to be feared that iff they were aliue and should but a litle touche his bile all the learning and godlines they had should not be able to harnesse theÌ„ froÌ„ those dartes of his tonge which others haue felte And it shall appeare I dowbt not or euer we haue done whether he beare that reuerence which he pretendeth when I shall haue shewed that the principall pointes which are debated betwene vs and which he is so looth to forgoo be clere and manifest assertions partlie off the eldest and moste auncientest professors off the gospell and partely off the moste famous learned martyrs in this our land I saye wheÌ„ these thinges shal be shewed it shal be discouered whether this price which he seteth of there iudgement hathe risen of their exellencie in vertew and learniÌ„g or rather of that cause which I haue before obserued In the allegation off the place of Nehemias yff I would followe the answeres traine I need not retracte any thinge For I could alledge vppon that that bothe before and after ther is rehearsed the same storie which was spoken off in Esra the feast off tabernacles is like to be all one spoken off in Esra and in Nehemia howbeit because there are reasons which leade me to thinke otherwise I willinglie confesse that the storie of the celebration of the feast of tabernacles in the third of Esra maketh against that I said of not holdinge that feast so manie yeares But I denie that the answerer in all this great triumphe either dothe or can lose my holde off that place wherby I confirmed the continuance off so many yeares in omittinge that which owght to haue bene done by the commaundement of god For notwithstanding the feast were celebrated yet it can not be shewed that it was kept in suche sorte as it owght with boothes made of certèine leaues and bowghes commaunded in the law And that the wordes off the booke of Nehemias which affirme that the childreÌ„ of Israel had not done so froÌ„ the time c are not referred onely to the ioie which was great in that feast but vnto the kepinge of it with bowghes â—â— in times past omited there is this likelihood that the storie sheweth how they had celebrated the first day off the feast withowt any off those bowghes prescribed and that the second day of the feaste hearing the law read which coÌ„maunded those bowghes they corrected their error werupon imÌ„ediatelie folowe these wordes of the booke that the childreÌ„ of Israel had not done so froÌ„ the time of Iosuah the sonÌ„e of NuÌ„ wherby appeareth that there was a generall ignorance of the manÌ„er of solemnizing that feast euen in Esra the
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
othe made with theÌ„ put to deathe And vnles this be admitted we shall be compelled to condemne the spies which entred into league with Rachab the Harlot and SalomoÌ„ which receiued the Amorytes that voluntaryly yelded theÌ„ selues vnto his obedience and withall vnto the obedience off the lorde as it maie appeare in the bookes off Esra and Nehemias where their posteritie which are there called the sonnes off the seruantes of Salomon hauing of olde time grow ne into one bodie off the churche off god withe the children of Israel ioyne themâ—elues with theÌ„ in the restoring of the temple Wheruppon the A. may vnderstande that the Scripture reasonethe negatiuely againste the Israelites in a thinge wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrarie Moreouer we reade that when Dauid had taken this counsell to builde a temple vnto the lorde albeit the lorde had reuealed before in his worde that there shoulde be suche a standing place where the arke off the couenante and the seruice off god shoulde haue a certeine abydinge and albeit there was no worde off god which forbad Dauid to builde the temple yet the lorde with commendation off his good affection and zeale he had to the aduancement off his glorie concludeth againste Dauid his resolution to builde the temple with this reason namelie that he had giuen no commaundement off this who shoulde builde yt Where he woulde grounde this answer vpon the wordes off Zuinglius yt is manifest that Zuinglius reproueth the Anabaptistes not for reasoning negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture but that they reasoned negatiuely off an acte or an example And there is great difference betwene them that saye it is no conteined or it can not be concluded off any place in the scripture therefore yt is vnlawfull and betweene the Anabaptistes which reason that therefore the baptisme off children is vnlawfull because it is not founde in the Scriptures that the Apostles did babtize any children Wheras iff they had reasoned thus that the baptisme off yonge children was vnlawfull forasmuche as yt was not commaunded in the scriptures althowghe the grounde off their reason had bene false yet their conclusion had bene faste and sure And therfore iff the answerer wolde haue delte trewly he shoulde not haue fathered this answer of Zuinglius whiche hathe no suche thinge but off the Papistes whose proper defense this is againste those whiche manifie the sufficiencie of the worde off God as that whiche giueth men addresse vnto all thinges whiche are to be doone Maister Harding reprochethe the Bishopp off Salusbery with this kinde off reasoning whiche the answerer obiectethe againste vs so often vnto whom the Bishopp answereth The Atgument Maister Hearding meanethe and not very plainely vttereth is the argumente off authoritie negatiuely vvhich is taken to be goode vvhen soeuer proufe is taken off godds vvorde and is vsed not onely by vs but also by many of the catholike fathers And there alledgeth how Saint Paul in the 3. Gal. dispureth negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture for that the Apostel vppon the wordes off Moses in thy seede and not seades concludeth that our sauiour Christe was vnderstanded likewise he shewe the how Origine reasoneth after the same sorte And a litle after sheweth the reason why the argumente off authoritie off of the scripture negatiuelie is good namely for that the worde off God is perfecte In another place vnto Maister Harding casting him in the teethe with the negatiue Argumentes he alledgeth places owte of Ireneus Chrisostome Loo which reasoned negatiuely of the authoritie of the scripture The places which he alledgeth be very full and plaine in generalitie withowt any suche restraincte as the A. imagineth as they are there to be seene Wheras he saithe that the reason that God coulde giue a perfecte patrone off the churche therfore he hathe so doone doothe no more folow then in there all presence off the Sacrament he doothe but trifle withe his reader For I reason not off the bare power off God but haue ioyned his will with his power For my wordes be that the Lorde determining to set before our eyes a perfecte forme off his churche is bothe hable to doo yt and hathe doone yt Where yt is euidente vnto all men that I grounde my reason not onely off the habilitie off the lorde but vpon his determination not onely off that which he coulde doo but off that he hathe doone Diuision 2. pag. 79. VNto that wherin he was towched for his vnskilfulnes in diuiding in that bothe matters off gouernement and matters of faithe which he deuideth and by diuiding opposethe meete so frendlie together in the gouernement of the Pope he answerthe not And yet hauing nothing to answer he findeth him selfe the talke of a whole sheete of paper For first off all how ridiculous ys it that he saithe he did not put a case but an example Then whether perteines it that he settethe doune what the Papistes saye off the pope what the pope doothe himselffe That also whiche he affirmethe in so good earnest that no gouernement owght to be receiued direcly againste the worde off God that he repeatethe and repeateth againe his negatiue argument of the popes supremacie are they not all strey spreaches fraied owt of ther wittes carying not the weight of a fether to the profe off any thinge in controuersie hauing no knot either with the cause or one of them with another Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies and gouernement off substantiall and accidentall of externall and spirituall are altogether vnprofitable brought to auoide his apparant ignorance in diuiding Likewise his dalying in his questions what gouernement I meane which is apparant in the discours off all our bookes off boothe sydes also his groping at none dayes by questions what it mente by matters necessarie to saluation which is expressed off me in the very nexte diusioÌ„ and againe in the thirde chap. 2 diuision Afterwarde when he setteth him selffe to proue that there is no one finde off gouernement certaine and vnuariable in the churche let yt be obserued how loosely aÌ„d childishelie he doothe yt For beside the firste reason which is a begging of that whiche is in questioÌ„ and the later reason drawne of the authoritie of maister Gwalier wherof he can haue no aduantage vnles with master Gwalter he will affirme that excommunication is not necessary nor yet conuenient vnder a Christien magistrate all the reste of his authorities drawne owte of M. Caluine the heluetian confession Bullinger are quite beside the cause For they are to proue that there may be a churche withowte excommunication As thowghe the question were what thinges the churche of those whiche be prescribed by the worde off God may wante aÌ„d yet be the churche of god and not what thinges yt owght to haue by the prescripte of the worde off god Or as thowghe the question were how sicke the churche might be and yet liue how meimed
obserued The first proposition is manifest considering that the statutes off the Apostels are the statutes off Christ the seconde is Augustines allowed off the D. and iff bothe these be true then the third must needes be This being thus gathered that which I added that therupō yt folowed that there is no sufficient doctrine conteined in the scriptures is thus concluded That which doothe not conteine all the will off God necessarie for vs to doo conteineth no sufficiente doctrine vnto saluation but the scripture by Aug and the d. conteinethe not all the will off God necessary for vs to doo therfore the scripture by Aug. and the d conteineth no sufficient doctrine vnto saluation The first proposition is manifest in that S. Paul to deliuer him selffe from the gilte off bloude towards the Ephes alledgeth that he had taught them all the will off God the second foloweth off that which Aug. and the d. allowe for iff there be some thing commanded off the Apostells not conteined in the worde off God that being necessarie yt must folowe that some necessarie thing for vs to doo is not conteined in the worde And where the A. saithe that neither Aug. nor he say that any thinge not conteined in the scripture is so necessarie that it may not be altered vpon iust occasion by suche as haue autoritie he can not mocke the worlde after that sorte withe faste and loose at his pleasure For if they be statutes off the Apostels and commended vnto the churches what autoritie is there vppon earthe whiche can displace them which the apostels haue placed and iff it be madnes as he saith afterward owte off Augustin not to obserue them or once to reason off them how can they take order in them And this answer is ouerthrowne by the wordes off Augustin whiche folow immediatly But other things saith he vvhich are varied by regions as that some faste vpon the sabbothe daye some doo not c. are at libertie to bo obserued neither is there any better rule to a Christian man in thes then to do as the churche doothe vvhere he comethe Where it is manifest that he opposeth the tradition off the Apostels and ther statutes receiued by tradition vnto those thinges whiche are in the churches power to ordeine and to those wherin yt ys safe for vs to applie our selfes to the order off the churche They being therfore in this opposed the one beinge in the churches power the other are nor the one being of that sorte that off which side soeuer the churche determine off them a man may saflie obey the other muste needes be off that sorte that if the churche woulde otherwise ordeine of them then the Apostels that a man may not safely obey And in the nexte sentence the thinges which he opposethe those statutes off the Apostels vnto he calleth indifferent and therby giueth to vnderstande that he tooke them for vnindifferent and hitherto perteineth that he alledgeth owt off August in Zuinglius name and is found in his booke against the Donatistes where yt ys said that they are to be holden as giuen by Apostolicall autoritie Which is more then if he had said giuen by the Apostels considering that there are thinges giuen off the Apostels as counsailes and left at the churches order to chaunge vppon occasion as were the traditions which M. Caluin speaketh off but they were neuer left vnto the church with an Apostolical autoritie Which autoritie is off the higheste nature and proceding from the higheste court that can be And that this was Augustines meaning appeareth manifestly by the place which I alledged out of his booke againste the donatistes Where he saithe that all those thinges vvhich the churche houldeth generally are to be houlden as praeceptes off the Apostels althovvghe they be not vvriten wherunto he answereth nothing And by that place the folie off the answerer wherby he woulde tune Augustin by maister Caluins wreste is more plainly discouered For where he wolde haue vs thinke that August vnderstood those traditions onely which perteine to order and politie that may be varied and not vnto doctrine yt is manifest that Augustin in that place saithe that the Apostels gaue commaundement tovvching the not rebaptising off those vvhiche vvere baptized by Heretikes and that the custome of off the churche in not rebaptizing vvhich vvas obiected against Cyprian had the beginning off the Apostels tradition Nowe I would knowe off the answerer whether he dare saye that this iudgement off rebaptizing be off traditions which may be chaunged or whether there can be any iust cawse wherefore this may be altered And if he dare not saye this then let him confesse his faut and not seeke to make vp his breaches by sutche vntempered morter Where I saye that thereby there is a gate opened vnto the the Papistes to bring in vnder the colour off traditions all their beggery he answereth that the Papistes are rather confuted by this meanes considering that the Pope hath nether at all tymes nor in all places bene receiued Where to let pas that to helpe him selfe he addeth at all times which is not in Augustines rule he towcheth not the point off the cause For in that onely that it is saide that there be precepts off the Apostels vnto the church not cōteined in the word of God is pusshed at the strongest bulwarcke which the church hath to defend yt selfe against the Popishe beggerie and all other corruptions Which bullwarke is that whatsoeuer is commaunded of the Lorde vnto the church is conteined in the worde off god yff this be once shaken there is no sufficient resistance left vnto the church against this assaut For althoughe yt hath some great likelihood which hath bene generally and from the Apostels times receiued yet for somuche as yt is not vnpossible for the whole church to erre in some point and to haue taken vp or reteined off that which yt had before some thing not deliuered by the apostels it can be no sufficiēt bar to withstand the corruptions offred to be brought in by the Heretikes to saie that the church hath ether doon or not doon so and so sythēs the Apostels tymes And althoughe we might be assured that they are the precepts of the Apostels which haue bene so generally receyued yet the doore is not so close shut against corruptions as he pretendeth For this thing standing that there are cōmaundemēts giuen of the Apostels not cōteined in the word of god they may thrust in thinges which haue not had that generall and continuall obseruation For althowghe Aug. saie that they are the traditiōns of the Apostles which are generally receiued yet he dooth not saie that they onely are and the Heretikes whose corruptions should be repulsed in this respect that they haue not bene generally nor alwaies receiued might haue an easye replye that there is the same preiudice against certen off the commandementes off the Apostels committed to writing considering that
great liberalitie But this aide which the church getteth by encrease off godlie and hable Ministers receiueth litle thanck But the hatred off this cause draue yow headlonge vpon them as your aduertismentes vvhich followe doo declare As there are some among them that fauour this cawse so there are some that like not off it And yet seing they haue ioined togither yea vvhich is verie straunge made great sute vnto the Bishops that they might of there owne charges prouide suche as in seruinge off them might discharge that vvhich the bishop hath charged him selfe with your suspition off spoilinge the church might haue had a fitter lighting place then vpon the Innes off courte Thus muche against your disordered suspition not altogether from my purpose for it shall serue to shew wherupon I conceiued so good hope of them and off other the gentrie off the realme vvhich haue in diuerse places made the same contribution Yf any haue forsaken the ministerie withowt iust cause they are giltie off a horrible fault but I see yow accounte them forsakers off the Ministerie vvhich yow haue thrust owt suche is your equitie to vvhipp them owt and for going owt also And if they hould any off your tenthes and would be counsailed by me they should yelde them into your handes least in beinge partaker off your non residencie they drink also off plages which belonge therto Wher yow saie I haue not answered in deede if your one mā be wise ād godly and the hūdreth fooles and wicked I haue said nothinge nor meane not now to doo being worthier to be hissed owt then to be answered Yow saie that the 16. Actes ▪ sheweth how well Timothy was thowght off a noble interpretation This is allwaies your fashion either to corrupte the places of the scripture or els to tell that which no man dowbteth of But for what cause dothe S. Luke tell that he was so well thowght of dothe he not shew in the nexte ver to be the same which I haue alledged And therfore Master Beza regardinge the meaninge of S. Luke addeth the word therfore declaringe for what cause that testimoniall was giuen This is your reason S. Luke sheweth how well Timothy was thowght off therfore yt is vntrew that S. Paul to cut of all occasion off euill speache receiued him not but vpon commenmendation off the brethren bothe in Listra and Iconium I doe not saie that S. Paul would not haue receiued him vnlesse that euerie singuler person had giuē testimonie vnto him vvhich was in those places but I shewed how circunspecte S. Paul was in takinge any into any part off the ministerie and how it is not to be thowght that he would haue vppon the Testimonie off one proceeded vnto any election seing that in one which he him selfe was not ignorant what he was to auoid the euill speache off some he was carefull to haue the testimonie off the church As it cā not be proued ▪ that he would not haue receiued him if all had not consemed therto so may it easely be shewed that if the most part had not liked of him he would not haue taken him For besides that it was against S. Paules maner to doo any thing off his owne priuate authoritie in the church off God it had not bene aduisedly done to haue procured the testimonie off the church for the admitting off him into his companie if the churche not consentinge he would haue taken him for that would haue bred a great flame off displeasure betwene the church and S. Paul and should haue bene alwaies shot in the mouthe off the aduersaries against the authoritie of Timothes ministerie yea off Paules also vnto whom he was ioyined for that he had receiued one disaproued of the Christians them selues All which he might by your iudgement easely haue auoided iff either he would haue rested in his owne knowledge off him or els haue addressed him selfe to some one for his testimonie ād not to haue hazarded the alienatiō of the church by com̄ittinge the allowāce of Tim. vnto their testimonial But mine argument is nothinge worthe because it is drawen off an acte off the Apostle Yf this be trew S. Luke was euil aduised to in title his booke the act or deedes of the apostles For it is as much in the ans lāguage as a booke of deedes which christiā mē are not boūd to followe ād yet it was not withowt cause that whē there are cōteined in that booke bothe the doctrine and deedes of the Apost S. Lu. as off the greater parte intitled his booke the deedes or actes of the apostles wherfore dothe he in the begin̄ing of that booke repeating the sum̄e of his gospell by that transition or passage make one bodie of them bothe and bind them as it were in one volume was it not to giue the same authoritie vnto the one a◠to the other to shew that the church had wanted so muche of a perfecte directiō as it wanted of that storie Wherfore dothe he in the begin̄inge shew that our Sau. Christ instructed thē with the cōmaundementes thowchinge his kingdome was it not to teache vs that whatsoeuer they did in buildīge of the church they did it not of there owne heades but by his authoritie And if a cōmanndemēt vnto them be not a commaundemēt vnto vs then haue we no word in the Scripture to warrant baptisme with For the commaundement of baptisinge was spoken to the Apostles onely withowt any further lymytation Fynally vvherfore dothe S. Luke set owt the Apostles fylled vvith the holye Goste Was yt onely to gyue credyte vnto there doctryne that yt should be beliued and not vnto there Actes that they should be folowed yes assuredlie vnto there acres that they should of euerie one according to his vocation where they maye be folowed For the further confirmation wheroff yt ys to be consydered what S. Paul vvrote vnto Tymothe Whom he instructynge how he should behaue hym selffe towardes the troublers off the church dothe not onely call him to the regard off his doctrine but also his conduite or maner off doing Wherby he meant to note his order and maner off doyng in the church off God and publykly for yt could be smally otherwise to the purpose off that vvherfore yt ys alledged Sanct Paules pryuate doynges could gyue Tymothy lytle instruction how he should behaue hym selfe towardes the troublers off the Church To the Phillippians also he callethe the Bishoppes Deacons and whole church both to doing off that which they heard and which they had sene in hym Yf therfore S. Paul will haue the churches followe that vvhich he did amongest them yt ys manifest that the Actes off the Apostles are rules for vs to followe And vnlesse this be admitted I would gladly learne off M. D. Where in all the scripture he can proue the imposition of handes which I think he will not denie to be necessarie And this is that vvhich M. Caluin doth flatly
that mynisterie So that yf they vvoulde conclude any thinge off that example they muste conclude that the churche maie chuse one which yt thincketh vvill deceyue the truste that ys laide vppon him I coulde here dispute vvhether althowghe he repented trewlie yet forsomuche as he is subiecte to another suche fall as well as any other yt vvere boothe lesse daunger for hym and les hurte for the churche to receiue suche an ouerthrowe vnder an other capitayne neuer foiled then vnder him vnder whoÌ„ yt hathe already bene put to flighte But forsomuche as yt is not so cleare and requireth a longer discourse I am contente to let that passe Yet that maye not be omitted that as in the refusall off a minister which hathe defyled hym selfe withe Idolatrie prouision is made for the safety and securitie of the churche so an eye ys had to a more plentifull fruicte which maie redounde vnto it by hym that is placed in the ministrie And forasmuche as no smale portion off that shoulde be by greate likelihoode turned a waie by restoring suche one as hathe fallen so grieuously amongest other reasons that also hathe force to hinder his restirucion For vvhen S. Paule requireth aucthoritie in a deacon purchased by continuall tenor and as yt weere by an euen thread of a holye and innocente liffe that he might vvithe greater libertie and boldnes execute his office he sufficiently declarethe that suche a fall especially in the bishoppe and mynister taken in the race off his ministerie maketh a deepe wounde into that authoritie and freedome off rebukinge others which is necessary for hym for furtherance off hy mynistry to retaine And as yt taketh awaie from his freedome in reprehending so that which he reprehendethe hathe so muche lesse aucthoritye withe the hearer as yt is not onlye not confyrmed but contraried by his example And yf Tymothe beinge endewed with suche rare gyftes off knowledge and holynes off lyffe had muche a doo to mainteine his authoritie in the churche againste the contempte of his yowthe which was no faulte he had neede haue very extraordinarie gyftes which can deliuer hys mynisterie from contempte ten folde more occasioned by suche a fall then by wante of a fewe years Seinge therfore the vvounde beinge healed by repentance the skarr dothe yet remaine in the eyes of the churche to the blemishinge of his Mynistrie yt ys good he be taken downe and set in some les lightesome place off the churche off God. There was yet a thirde reason vvhiche no doubte moued the churches to keepe this order that this barre off hym from the mynistrie vvhiche had so fallen mighte serue for example vnto other mynisters to take heede For they consydered well that as common wealthes so the churches of God are preserued by rewarde and punishement and that as in the rewarde off some other are prouoked to make after those thinges vvhich are by that rewarde crowned so by the punishement off some other are terrified from doinge that for whiche they see them dishonored Therfore they thowghte yt vnmete that he which had faulted in the qualytie off a mynister shoulde no other wise be disciplined then a pryuate person but rather as his faulte exceded so his correction shoulde encrease Whiche thinge beinge so muche commended in common wealthes well gouerned I see no cause why yt shoulde not be as conueniente in the churche off God so farre and in suche kinde off corrections as are in the churches power And therfore yt appeareth that the commaundemente which is gyuen in Ezethiell and in the booke off the kinges for the separatinge off the Leuytes from their Ministerie which had fallen to Idolatrye was not a lawe for a tyme but drawne from the springe off that equytie which can not be changed And so farr is yt that the gospell hath made this lawe voide that yt hathe also confyrmed yt for yf the ministerie off the lawe were so gloriouse that yt vvoulde not be handled off those which had once fallen from yt by Idolatrie althowghe they did repente howe muche more owghte the mynystrie off the gospell which so surmounteth the mynisterie off the lawe as the gospell dothe the lawe be vntowched off suche as forsaking yt haue defyled them selues with that synne And if for a lesse faulte they were kepte from a lower place in the church for a greater faulte shoulde not they muche more be kepte from a higher dignitie for wheras nowe the seconde tyme he faithe that vnder the lawe there were certeine corporall pollutions which made a man vncleane for a tyme yt proceadethe of too great ignorance off the Scripture either in not knowing in what shorte tyme those polutions mighte be purged or els assigning anie cawse off the Leuytes putting forthe off their ministrie for euer for the polutions which were in so fewe dayes clensed Yowr allegatioÌ„n owte off maister Caluin towching the widowes is nothing for yow nothing to the cause For what if he saye that the Apostell requireth that they shoulde be benyficiall doothe yt therfore followe that respecte shoulde not be had into their vvhole life Yt may be easely vnsterstaÌ„ded that the apostel hauing drawne the office off a wydowe throwghe diuers sortes of good workes becawse yt had bene to longe to recyte all shutteth vp vvith that clause as yf he shoulde saie that I stande not in rehersall off all I will haue her suche as hathe exercised her selfe in euery good worke But I desire the reader to obserue the vnfaithfullnes and open corruption that he vseth in cyting off maister Calu. For his iudgement being not called for but answere required to the wordes of S. Paule he hath taken that which serueth not to the purpose and hathe lefte owte that in the exposition of the same verse which is directly againste that he alledgeth maister Caluin for Whose wordes are these There is no dovvbte bâ—t there vvere vvorshipfull and very reuerent colledges or companies off vvidovves therfore Paule vvill haue none chosen thether but such as be commended by a notable testimonie off their vvhole former lyfe And wheras he asketh howe coulde that be when they had but one parte off theire lyfe knowen Christe not to speake off the Iewishe widowes which might haue led their whole life in good and holy worckes in deede he muste learne that S. Paule dothe not there speake onely off good workes which are the fruictes of faithe but callethe those good workes whiche are cyuilly and in owtewarde shewe and estimacion off men good So that he requireth that those onely be chosen emongest the weomen which were neuer detected off any notable cryme but haue allwaies lyued in an honeste cyuill behauiour amongest their neighboures And thus S. Luke calleth those vveomen religious and honeste which were moued to persequte S. Paul. There was nether trewe Religion nor honestie in them but so he calleth them because they were so estemed S. Paul also saithe off him selffe when he was the enemy off
then a dowsen lines of the place from whence he rente this Hauinge inueighed againste the Popishe election bothe for that in yt one bishoppe hathe all the powre and for the vnworthines off those which were chosen he addethe yt semethe therfore that there ys nothinge so agreable to the ordinance off god and to the oulde institution as that all the vvhole church off the faithfull amongeste a people together vvithe certaine learned and godlie bishopes ad other faithful mē hauinge skill in thinges shoulde choose a pastor and a lytle after Let therfore thes provvde bishops and folish Abbats goo shake their eares for yt is conueniente that the righte off the election shoulde be in the povvre off the churche off the faithfull instructed by the counsels off learned men for as that matter ovvghte not to be in the povvre of one so ovvghte not the rude and vnlearned multitude chalenge vnto yt selfe alone so great vveighte off the election c. Let vs nowe see whether the Ans be anie faithfuller in alledginge Maister Bullinger Firste who denieth that Paule and Barnabas did chuse elders and ministers there When we gyue vnto them the gouernmente and direction off the action there is no reasonable man can Imagin that we shut them owte off the election But iff yow thinke that because maister Bullinger saithe they chose therfore he affirmethe that they chose alone and withowte the churche thes wordes can by no means proue yt his iudgemente in other places quite ouerthroweth yt heare therfore what M. Bull. writeth Those vvhiche thincke meaninge the papistes that the bishops and Archbishop haue povvre to make ministers vse thes places of the scripture Therfore I lefte the at Crete that thovv mighteste appointe elders tovvne by tovvne and againe take heede thovv laye not thy handes rashely of any but vve ansvver that the Apostels did not vse anie tyrannie in the churches nor to haue them selues alone doone these thinges vvhiche perteined ether to the election or ordination other men in the churche shut ovvte For the Apostels and elders did create bishops and elders in the church but communicatinge their counsaile vvithe the churches yea and vvithe the consente and approuing off the people vvhiche dothe appeare plainly by the election and ordination off Mathias c. And there citinge howe Moses did cōmunicate the choise off the magistrates withe the people he addeth And so no dovvbte did blessed Titus althovvghe he had hearde thovv shalte appoincte elders in Creta yet vnderstood that nothinge vvas permitted hym to doo priuatly vvithovvte the aduise off the church And because this place is cited also to proue that Maister Bullinger shoulde thinke that the Election 14. Actes shoulde be made by Barnabas and Paule let the Doctor heare what maister Bullinger writethe in the page before sayinge That the lorde from the beginninge gaue authoritie to the churche to chuse and ordeine fit ministers hathe been shevved before in the second sermone off this decade by the example off the moste eldeste churches in the vvorlde Ierusalem and Antioche vvheroff the one did not onely ordeine seuen Deacons but also Matthias the Apostle the other did set aparte to the ministrie the tvvoo notable Apostels off Christe Paule and Barnabas vvherunto is added that the churches off the gentills beinge instructed or directed off Paule and Barnabas did chuse by voices elders or gouernours off the churche Where also he quoteth the same place off the Actes whiche is here in question Thes was I constrained good reader to set downe that thow mighteste vnderstande that the weapons wherwithe the D. fightethe againste this cawse are not as he falsly pretendeth drawne from the godly writers but ministred vnto him by some owte off the armorie off the papistes whose they onely be The places whiche I alledged proue firste that yt is vsuall in the scripture to ascribe that to the principall in an action whiche is commen to them withe other then that althowghe S. Luke had made no mention off the election off the churche but onely saide that Barnabas and Paule chose yet therby coulde not be concluded that the churche had no intereste in the election but onely this that Paule and Barnabas were the cheife in that action Yff that be ascribed vnto Iosue whiche he procured onely and layed no hand vnto howe much more maie yt be ascribed vnto Paul and Barn. whiche they bothe procured ād had some doinge in and therfore that example of al is moste apte for that wherfore it is alleadged I perceiue there is nothinge so cleare whiche the D. will not essaie to darcken seing he saith that yt rather appeareth that the people permitted the election off those gouernours to Moses The contrarie wheroff manifestly appearethe for after that in the 9. verse Moses had bydd them chuse gouernours in the nexte verse he saithe that the people accepted that commaundmente and thowght off yt as a thinge equall Therfore it is moste vntrwe that they retourned yt into Moyses handes againe for then they woulde haue answered that yt was not meete for hym to committe the election vnto them but rather for the wisdome wherin he excelled to doo yt him selfe And where the D. reasoneth off the 15. verse vpon the wordes I toke c. that phrase dothe rather ouerthrowe his purpose then cōfirme yt for it semethe to haue a relation to the gyuinge ād presentinge of those whiche they they had chosen And the very same Phrase is vsed afterwardes in the 23. vers of the spies whiche were sente to spie the lande which notwithstandinge were not onely sente off Moyses but off the people also as appeareth in the 22. verse and in the booke off numbers where the lorde doothe not onely attribute this sendinge off spies vnto Moises but vnto the people Moyses gaue no further authoritie vnto them then they whiche in ecclesiasticall elections ordeine those whiche were chosen before and confirme the elections whiche are made Therfore as those ordinations exclude not the authoritie off election so this confirmation off Moyses did not deuoure that powre off election whiche he had gyued them but theyr elections and his confirmation made vp a full creation of those gouernours Towchinge the false accusation off pushing at the magistrate I haue answered Those verses off the 22. and 23. off the 25. Actes whiche yow alledge shewe who bore the swate in the makinge of that decree But yet in that the letters were written in the churches and not onely in the Apostels and Elders names and for that the decree is ascribed vnto them by whome the letters are subscribed yt is manifeste that that consente and subscription off the people occupied some rowme in that decree Nether is that alledged owte of M. Calu. any thinge againste that I saied that the people had to doo in yt and gaue consent but giueth asmuch to the church as I in saying the churche committed the matter vnto the decision of the Apostels
churches interest whiche he dothe so plainly bothe here and els where affirme And where yt is supposed that the churche hathe leue to oppose againste him that is to be elected I haue shewed howe manifeste mockerie yt is off the churche off god As for that whiche is saied off maister Bulling and Maister Caluin iointly that they haue affirmed off the significatiō off the worde as muche as he yt is a manifeste vntrwthe For maister Caluin neuer affirmed that the scripture euer vsed that worde to note the ceremonie off layinge on off handes Off M. Bullinger yt hathe bene before spoken There followeth in this seconde rancke Oecunemius whose testimonie is so flat againste the Ans signification off the word lifting vp off handes and therfore also againste the sole election off the bishoppe as a clearer coulde not be required His words be thes yt is to be noted that the disciples vvithe fastinge and praiers did make elections by voices Nowe seinge by the worde disciples Saint Luke and the Scoliast followinge him continually throwghe the storie of the Actes note the people whiche belieued it is manifeste that the Scoliaste dothe both cōclude vppon this place that the people did chuse and cōcludethe yt also of the worde lifting vp off handes Whether in attributinge the same worde vnto Paule and Barnab he meane therby the ceremonie off imposition off handes I will not as in a thinge not worthe the trauaile stande yt is enowghe for me to haue shewed how this testimonie makethe directly againste that whiche the Doctor affirmeth that is to saie that the worde lifting vpp off handes signifiethe in this place off the Actes onely the ceremonie off layinge on off handes For if it signifie bothe the election by voices and the ceremonie off layinge on off hands then our cawse standeth as sure as if it onely signified the election by voices And to this testimonie off the Scoliaste agreeth the same Ignatius that the Ans in his former boke maketh so greate accompte off who writeth thus yt is meet that yovv as those vvhiche be the church off god should chuse by voices yovvr bishopp Wherby not onely appeareth that that author wil haue the churche chuse her minister but also how this worde is vsed off him in the proper signification to note the election whiche is made by voices Chrysostome remaineth which taking the worde for the imposition off handes doothe not exclude the naturall signification Brentius translating Chrysost had folowed that sense I set downe yf the D. can confute him by the greeke example he is worthy off credite Let vs now see what the Ans hath to say against those reasons wherby I shew that S. Luke by lifting vp off handes ment properly the election by voices I may not saithe he teache the holie goste to speake God forbid I should goe abowte yt But shall not he whiche made the mouthe speake and he whiche teacheth all other to speake properly speake properly him selfe I doo not therfore teache the holy goste to speake whiche applie his words to make them agree withe the thinges they signifie but yowr opinion supposeth wante off knowledge off the tonge in the holy goste whiche woulde haue hym signify layinge downe by liftinge vp And where yow saie I trifle becawse he that laieth on his handes muste firste lifte them vpp or euer he can laie them on who trifleth in this poincte let all iudge For who dothe not vnderstande that the name is vsually giuen off the principall and nearest action wherwithe it is doon and not off those actions whiche are farr off accidentall or for the cause and sake off the principall And yt is all on as if a man should call the takinge off a knife into his hande cuttinge off breade because he that cutteth breade muste before take the knife into his hande How be it if there were the same manner off layinge on off hādes in the primitiue churche whiche is in poperie and withe vs where he that is chosen kneeleth on his knees to receiue the bishopps layinge on off handes yt is so farre from any neede to lifte vp his hand or euer he can laie yt on that onles he carie his handes verie vnmanerly like a paire off hanging sleeues he muste let them downe or euer he can can laie them on the heade off him whiche is chosen Therfore althowghe an other mighte vse this poore shifte yet yow which haue vndertaken to defende whatsoeuer the bishops generallie doo in their elections haue if I shoulde deale hardly with yow loste this aduantage Yt is nothinge with the A. that the 70. interpreters off the ould Testament nor that S Paule and Luke him selffe vtter the layinge on off handes by other words Thes are bare coniectures beinge alledged againste him but ye shall heare by and by where he hathe not halfe suche a reason the greate bell goe with certeinly and manifestly Howbeit althowghe thes seem bare coniectures to him yt muste needes haue weighte with those that haue their senses well acquainted with the holy scripture For they knowe that the writers off the newe testament frame them selues vnto the manner off speache off the oulde when they speake off the same thinges and for the gentils sake whiche had knowledge off the translation of the seuentie interpreters they kepe them so carefully to that that sometimes they vse it althowgh yt be not in euery poincte so iuste ād so answerable vnto the trewthe of the Hebrew as mighte haue beene Which thinge doone off all those especially whiche laboured in the tillage off the gentills amongeste whom S. Luke S. Paules Companion was whosoeuer considereth muste nedes confesse that this coniecture is not so bare as he maketh yt I aske yff any man can reasonably thinke that in one and the same ceremonie commen aswell vnto vs off the Newe Testament as those off the oulde Saint Luke woulde leaue bothe the maner of speache of the Hebrewes and the wordes off the 70 interpreters to take a straunge phrase from the one and diuers wordes from the other or whether he woulde leaue the phrase and wordes which the Iewes and gentils were acquainted withe to vse a phrase whiche the Iewes neuer harde of and a worde whiche was in that signification vnknowen vnto the Gentils off all whiche when there is no one which hath not force to perswade this sentence so the laste is suche that yt leuethe no place vnto any resistance For when the holy goste speaketh with the tonges off men and to their vnderstandinge if by this worde lifting vp off handes he had signified a layinge on of handes he coulde not haue beene vnderstanded seinge that worde was of no suche signification in that tonge And where he saithe I oppose my bare coniectures to improue so many learned mennes iudgements I haue shewed howe he hath ouer toulde I haue no where reasoned againste yow as if yow shoulde affirme that by that worde the laying of on hādes
iudgement dependeth that no one parte off the worlde no one citie no one the leaste towne receiued the gospell wholy in the Apostles time If I shoulde suffer yow to goe awaie with this greate and vngrounded sainge yet therby can not be concluded that there are more Christians nowe in a parte off Europe then was throwghoute the worlde in the Apostles time But I require proofe of that yow set downe so precisely not onelie because I thinke yow can not warrāt yt by any but also because I haue somewhat to excepte againste yt For yt maie appeare that Samaria did wholy receiue the gospell For beside that yt is recited that vvith one accorde the multitudes gaue heede vnto that Philipp saide S. Luke declaringe in the 10. and 11. verses that all that vvere in Samaria from the litle to the great vvere bewitched vvith the inchaunmentes off Symon addeth in the 12. verse that vvhen they beleued they vvere baptised This hauing relation vnto that vvhich goeth before vvhich is that all were abused by the magycian yt followeth that the whole cytie receyued the gospell Wherunto maie be referred the emulation betwene Ierusalem and Samaria wherby yt came to passe that the gospell thruste oute off Ierusalem was both easelier and more generally receiued in Samaria Lykewise that yt is saide in the 13. verse that euen Simon him selfe off al other moste vntoward beleeued and that in the 14. ver that Samaria had receiued the vvord off God and not many in Samaria as he speaketh off other places where the Gospell was but in parte receiued Yf one excepte that it is not like euery singular person turned at the preaching off Philip I answere that in suche streight signification of all there shall be at this daie founde no kingdome and almoste no citie which hath receiued the gospell But if the whole profession off the gospell be estemed off that which is doone by the bodie and state of the cytie yt seemeth that the wordes off Saincte Luke will beare owte a whole and generall profession at the leaste off the moste parte which yow denie And yf it be trewe that Euseb vvriteth we haue a manifeste testimonie off the whole receiuing off the gospell in the citie off the Edissens which was wonne vnto the Gospell by the preachinge off Thaddeus sente to kinge Agbarus by Thomas the Apostell off vvhom yt is vvritten that he browght all to the knowledge of the gospell and that the vvhole citie of the Edissens hauing at that time giuē her name vnto the profession off Christe so continued vnto the time wherin Eusebius vvrote Where yow vvoulde seeme to saie some great matter when yow add not at Ierusalem yt is asmuche as if yow shoulde say that no towne receiued the gospell because Ierusalem the moste murderinge towne in the whole vvorlde did not vvhose rebellion and for it destruction beinge foretolde off our Sau. Christe muste needes follow For touchinge the Apostles abode there it was not for the hope off any plentifull haruest to be reaped in that cytie But partly for that the Iewes vnto whom they were sente to preache first had their concourse thether from all corners of the worlde partly to fullfill the prophecye off the sounde of the gospell from Syon into all partes of the worlde and thirdly to prepare a readier passage for his heauy iudgementes to come vppon that cytie That also also which yow add that the tenthe parte off the inhabitans off Ephesus Antioche and Rome was not Christian in the Apostles times is onely saide and it is muche for yow to speake so largely off the tenthe not hable to proue the fyueth or thirde And althowghe yt can not be certainly knowen what nomber of beleuers were at thes places yet it maie be by all likelyhood shewed that it is vntrwe especially off the twoo first Of Antioche wee reade that when they which were scattered by persecution moued in Ierusalem preached there the hande off the Lorde vvas vvith them and a great nomber beleuinge turned vnto the lorde And in the 24. verse yt is saide that at the preachinge off Barnabas there vvas a great multitude added vnto the lorde And yet in the 26. verse yt is declared that afterward Barnabas procuringe Saint Paules comminge thether they bothe together abyding there by the space off one whole yeare tavvght a great multitude Here is mention off three great multitudes which at seuerall times were turned vnto the lorde in that citie and how dare yow yet saie that al thes were not the tenth parte Of Ephesus also it is written that the fruicte off S. Paules preaching there by the space of twoo yeares was so greate that the bookes off those which had exercised curiouse and vnlawfull artes vvere bourned in the sight off all men which coulde not be doone without great daunger vnto the church onles the greatest parte off the citie had beleued Which maye yet more appeare for so much as Demetrius the siluersmythe affirmeth that the arte of makinge shrines and Dianas temple vvas in danger to be set at nothinge And as the A. is to narrow in esteming the fruicte of the Apostles preaching accompanied with suche powre off miracles and diuersities off giftes off the holy goste wherby were gathered greater nombers off professors off the gospell then nowe by the symple preaching off the worde so in his accompte off the nomber off professors off the Gospell now he is marueilously lauishe For where are those whole contreis nations and kingdomes which professe Christe If he take in the Papistes to make vp his reckuinge they will not be receiued For wee speake off the churche off Christe and off those which imbrace the gospell and so himselfe had put yt in his answer to the admonition The papistes therfore which pretendinge the name of Christe persequute the gospell are the Synagogue off Sathan and must in this accounte off Christians be shut owte howsoeuer by changing off the professors off the gospell into those which professe Christe yow woulde seeme to winde them in The mixture which was in the Apostels times off professors off the gospell with those which were professed enemies vnto yt beinge yet in those kingdomes yow speake of yow are so farre from shewinge that the multitude off professors off the gospell in Europe is greater now then yt was in then in all Asia Africke and Europe that yow doo not so muche as shewe that the nomber off Christians in Europe yt selfe is nowe greater then in time off the Apostles When it is saide that the whole church assembled for election all men knowe that therby is mente that particular companie off professors off the gospell which dwellinge nighe together make one assemblie and therfore that yow write off the impossibilitie off gathering all the church scattered throwgh out the whole worlde into one place is but a meere daliance Yow saie they mighte well meete withowte confusion in the Apostles times
therfore euery thinge that liueth is a man And I woulde gladly vnderstand by what maisters off our tounge yow can proue that thes two wordes to appoincte and to ordeine differ Iff they be all one why seeke yow aduantage in the one which you can not finde in the other But if it be absurde to saie that ordeininge is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to appoincte yt is as absurde that to appoincte is nothinge els but to call to chuse and to ordeine I am well contente yow expounde the place vnto Timothe off puttinge on of handes by that vnto Titus of appoincting towne by towne For I dowbte not but that which the eldershippe doth or one in the name off the eldershippe after the electioÌ„ is therfore called appointinge or ordeininge to the ministerie because yt is a solemne inuestinge and puttinge him in possession off that wherunto he was before chosen Althowghe Cal. be directly against him in this question whose iudgement is that yt doth nether belonge vnto the bishoppe to choose him selfe alone nor yet to ordeine by him selfe alone yet to helpe to ouerthrowe the right signification of Presbytery he is contente to folowe him at the leste dowting leauinge so many bothe olde and newe which all take that worde for a companie off those which gouerne the churche And it is certeine that those formes off nownes are vsed to signifie ether a societie or els the place where a societie meeteth And Caluine him selffe interpretinge that place where he had better occasion to coÌ„sider of it semeth to haue retracted his iudgement for thus he writeth They vvhich doo here take this vvord presbytery for a novvne collectiue and for the colledge of elders in my iudgement thincke vvell Althovvghe all thinges consydered I graunte an other sense vvill not euill agree that is that yt be the name off the offyce Yff those wordes as I appoincted the be referred as yowr learned interpreters will haue them by laying on off handes and praier they helpe yow nothinge And therfore I will not striue abowte yt Where yow saie Musculus meaninge is not much otherwise meaninge therby to conclude that he mente not to barr Timothe and Titus off their sole election let his wordes then be iudge Hauinge shewed howe Mathias and the Deacons were chosen by the church he saith there is no doubte but the Apostles kepte that maner of ordeininge and alledginge the example of the election off the 14. off the Actes headdeth therfore after fastinge and prayinge vvhich vvas vvonte to be doone in the congregation off the faithfull they ordeined elders vvhich vvere firste chosen of the faithfull And this forme off electinge and ordeininge elders and bishoppes the Apostle commended vnto his fellovve vvorkman Titus and Timothe sayinge for this cause I lefte the at Crete c. for vvho vvoulde beleue that he ordeined that Titus shoulde doo othervvise then both he and the rest off the Apostles vvere accoustomed to doo And althowghe thes wordes declare so plainly that Titus and Timothe chose not them selues alone but by consente off the churches as more fuller coulde hardly be deuised yet to put all owt off dowbte that he mente that Timothe and Titus conformed themselues to the examples off the Apostles in the churches election ioined together with theirs he doth immediatly add this conclusion Therfore bothe by the example and ordinance off the Apostle in the primitiue churche elders pastors bishoppes and Deacons vvere in the Ecclesiasticall meetinges chosen off the people by lifting vpp off handes Where the reader maie consyder what trwth he hath to loke for at the D. handes which denieth thinges that haue so manifeste and so easie confutation And where he saith that herin althowghe he hath lefte Caluin yet he hath folowed the iudgement of other learned men he maie see that he hath not lefte Caluin onely but Muscul Bulling and Zuing. As for his learned men I thinke verely that Pighius Hosius and others off that stampe excepted he is not hable to alledge one to confirme that Titus and Timothe had onely the election off the ministers For those alledged to proue that Timothe and Titus did ordeine are nothinge to the purpose considering no man denieth that but that they ordeined alone was to be shewed And â—â— he had shewed that they alone ordeined which he shall neuer doo yet is not the election off the people therby shut owte forsomuche as election and ordination are seuerall thinges What ether godlines or honesty is in him which dare so bare faced denie thinges so openly vntrwe I will leaue to bee iudged of that which is saide towching that the election doth not belonge vnto the bishoppe alone but vnto the church Here I will shewe that not so much as the ordination can by the testimonie of thauncient fathers or councelles agree vnto one bishop onely which is another poinct that he would haue the reader beleue and therfore owght ether to haue shewed yt or els to haue holdeÌ„ his peace seing none euer denied that the bishop hath to doo in the ordinacion Firste yt appeareth in Cyprian that both in the prouince where he was and in all other prouincs almost the nexte bishopps off that place where ther was a minister to be chosen came to ordeine hym whom the people chose The great councell off Nice decreed that he shoulde be ordeined off all the bishopps off the prouince at the leaste of three Moreouer August sheweth that when the Donatistes accused Cycilian for that beinge cheife bishop off the Prouince off Carthage he waited not to bee ordeined off the cheife bishoppe off Numidia the Catholikes did answer that it was the coustome of the Catholike church that the bishop of Num. should not ordeine the bishop of Carthage but the bishops which were next And in an other place of the same booke he sheweth that yt was the coustome that 12. bishoppes shoulde be at the ordination off him which was chosen bishop and pastor off any church Which appeareth in the same booke to haue bene obserued in the ordination off Cycilian And that yt may appeare that this was by continuall consente and Harmonie off Councells decreed againste the ordination by one bishoppe that one place off Theodoret iff there were no more mighte suffice where he saith that Euagrius came to the office off a bishoppe vnlawfully because onely Paulinus ordeined him contrary to the tenure off manie canons which prouided that they shoulde not be ordeined but by all the bishoppes off the prouince or at the leaste by three Thus yt appeareth that by all antiquitie not onely the election made by one bishope alone but the ordinacion also is flatly condemned as vnlawfull and contrarie to the coustome of the Catholike churche and olde Councelles â–ª wherby is manifest how vaine yt is which is cited owt off Caluin and others to proue that because the Metrapolitane ordeined therfore he ordeined alone Yow answer not
when I added they were argumentes drawne off the nature off thinges wherunto the Ministers are likened and are for the moste part vsed by the holy gost himselfe I preuented that obiection wherunto the S. saithe nothing But if they proue nothing because they were similitudes then his answers to ouerthrowe them being bare similitudes and in thinges wherein they be compared moste vnlike are insufficient The rest off the second section off this diuision which is almoste a whole syde ys perteining to the question off Residence and off hauing twoo benefices Vnto thes argumentes which I vsed as hovve they should knovv his voice vvhen they can not heare yt acknovvledge him vvhen they can not knovv him follovve him vvhen they can not see him goe before or hovve he should heale their diseases vvhen he can not possibly knovve them he answereth not a worde That S. Paul in commaunding to appoint Elders throwghe euery citye ment euery companie off the faithfull rysing vnto a nombre cōuenient to meet in one assemblie yt is manifest by the place off Saint Luke where yt is saide that elders were ordeined thorowghout euery congregation Wherunto albeit the Ans could say nothing yet in pressing the word cytie he sheweth his good will. Vnto this yt may be added that the scripture vseth oftentimes for shortnes sake by a cytye to comprehend as well townes and villages as the great cities For where Saint Matthew hath citie or towne S. Luke hath citie onely and in diuerse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. off Luke the precepts gyuen off the Apostels behauiour in the cities are necessarily vnderstanded off other places Likewise that both M. Beza and Erasmus reformed herein the ould translatour changing his translation off citie by citie as that which attained not fully to the meaninge off the Apostle into a more generall speach off tovvne by tovvne This shall yet better appeare in the 3. cha 8. Tract where it shal be shewed howe the institution off God is that a Bishop shoulde be not off a diocese such as ours or prouince but off a particular church Which treatise I would haue drawne hyther as vnto the proper place but that these places are so intangled with the question off the Dominion off the Bishop that I could not without too great trouble off the reader seuer yt Where he saithe that Saint Paul commaunding to appoint Ministers to certein places did not thereby forbid Titus to make Ministers hauing no certeine place he should vnderstand that S. Paul knewe he had to doo with one which had learned well that lesson off the lawe off God Thovv shalt onely doo that vvhich I cōmaund the. And it is shamefull iniurie doon to Titus once to thincke that he made kindes off Ministeries whereof he had no commission by the Apostle The rest is nothing but a manifest begging off that which is in question Where I alledged the councell off Calcedon that none shoulde be ordeined losely but vnto some speciall congregation the D. being at a bay and hauing no place to escape commeth vpon me vvith open mouth and will beare the reader in hand that I haue falsified the Councell and why forsooth becawse I haue left out these wordes Or in the place off Martyrs buriall or in monasterie I left them out in deed because we haue no vse off them Howbeit what syllable is there here which helpeth him or in all the canon which he hath set downe That the councell men◠not that a man must off necessity be ordeined to a certein place but that he should haue some stay off liuing is directly contrary to the councells wordes which expresseth the first plainly and off the later speaketh nor a word The reasons vsed haue not so much as any sense and are drawen first from the filthie puddle off Popish diuinity that there be eccesiasticall ministeries withowt cure and places not neding any pastorall charge wheras if those monasteries c. were lawfull assemblies euery ecclesiasticall ministery was as necessary for them as for other Afterward they are drawne from a shameles corruption off the councels wordes by sworne ennemies off all good order in the church which to ouerthrowe a plaine meaning haue interpreted vvithovvt hauing some title withowt hauing some possession or liuing And that I haue set downe the true meaning off this councell may easely appeare by an other which forbad this wandring from citie to citie For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius bishop off Nicomedia for leauing his owne church to be bishop in an other alledgeth a canon wherby yt was ordeined that none ether bishop or elder should goe frō citie to citie Wherby appeareth they had all certein places Yea the D. Denis shall giue testymony vnto vs in this behalf whose wordes be vve haue appoincted to euery elder his proper parish and church yeard and ordeine that euery one kepe his ovvne right so that none enter into the boundes off an other parish but euery one contēt him self vvith his ovven and so gouerne the church cōmitted vnto him that he may giue account c. But that this shameful facing off the D. may be manifest I will set downe Caluins iudgement off this canon wherby shall better appeare who hath vsed most faith herein he or I. Speaking against the Popish making off ministers he saith But it vvas ordeined in the councell off Calcedon that there should be no absolute ordeining off ministers that is to say onles there vvere a place assigned vvhere the ordeined might exercise his charge Here is the same sense and exposition off the councell which I haue followed as full in euery point now let vs heare owt off what schoole the D. exposition commeth He addeth a litle after But our Romish maisters vvhich thincke nothing to be cared for but the belly fyrst interprete a title a sufficient reuenue vvherby he may be able to liue vvhether left off his freindes or by some benefice Therfore ordeining a priest or Deacon if he able to liue they giue him the degree not regarding vvhere he should exercise his ministery But vvho vvill euer admit that the litle vvhich the councell requireth is a yerely reuenue to mainteine himselfe vvith And after shewing other fraudes wherby they haue deluded other councells which cōfirmed this he addeth is yt not alvvaies absurd to ordein an elder to vvhom there is no place appointed wherby appeareth not onely Calu. iudgement off this question but how impudent a corruption off the councell he estemeth this which the D. so greatly alloweth The councell off Vrbane owght to make the D. blush and the corruptions which he to so small pourpose chargeth his booke with cause it to speake so lowde that the very deafe eares owght to heare For this diuinity off the later popery which he mainteineth being condemned off the former hath therby a brand of corruptiō wherby it may be knowen Consydering that popery geue still from euill to
may better appeare for that in other places where S. Paul deuideth the whole mynistrie of the churche the ministrie off the word which he vttered here by the word off Prophecie he there attributeth not vnto Prophetes but vnto Bishops And when as the prophecie which the D. phansieth is a simple Ministrie off the church that Prophecie mencioned there being compounded muste needes be diuers Likewise that a Prophet to the Corin. is taken generally for any which instructeth with any word off exhortation yt is apparant both by that S. Paul attributeth prophecying to all which haue any gift off teaching and in that he doth so often oppose it to the fruteles speaking in a straunge toung amongest the assembly of the faithfull His testimonies out off writers remaine wherein amongest the auncient he hath onely a counterfeit sentence off Ambrose as I haue before declared which as yt ys full of confusion and disorder so yt maketh nothing for the D. for if Apostels be bishops and Euangelistes and Euangelistes be Deacons c. what maketh that to proue that there are beside the bishops and Deacons seuerall functions of Apostels and Euangelistes which is the question But how this fable is beaten down by all auncient antiquitie that may be a sufficient argument that the auncient writers in great consent speake off the whole ministrie off the church as deuided into thes three orders Bishops Elders and Deacons After that other ministries entred as doorkepers subdeacons c. yet there were none but such lightheaded spirits as I haue before spoken off that durst peint out any their mynysteries with the names off Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes For the new writers that the D. if his forhead be not of yron may learn to blush I will towch their Iudgment onely which he hath alledged for him self Maister Caluin diuiding the mynistrie off the word into Apostels Prophetes Euangelistes Pastors and Doctors affirmeth that the tvvo last onely that is to say Pastors and Doctors are ordinary Bucer likewise deuiding them into perpetuall and for a tyme affyrmeth that these perteine vnto thestate off the former church and correcteth the D. Ambrose for appliyng them to his times by the true Ambroses sentence to the contrary in the fyrst of his Offic. Peter Martyr vsing the same diuision sheweth that the function off Apost and Prophets are not in vse and that the ministrye of Prophets is not onely expyred in respect of telling thinges to come but also for the manner off interpreting the scripture That he speaketh not the same off the Euangelist was for that the Apostle maketh no mention off him in that place Musculus deuideth the mynisteries off the vvord into those vvhich serued for the beginning off the gospell as Apost Euang. Proph. and those vvhich cōtinue for euer as Pastors Doctors Elders Bishops Bullinger saith the office off Apostleship Prophetship and Euangelistship were instituted off the Lord for a tyme and that thes many ages euen synce the foundacion off the kingedome off Christ both Apostels Euangelistes and Prophetes are ceassed into vvhose place are come bishops Pastors Doctors and Elders Last off all the confession off the churches hauing spoken off all mynisteries off the word mencioned off the Apostel concludeth that off all those now it is lawfull to esteeme mynistries off the churche Bishops Elders Pastors and Doctors Thes autors affirming that thes mynistries be extraordinary that they were for a time that other are come into their places the reader may see how the D. dealeth with him Let yt now be noted how he hath haled thes sentences taken from them Out off Maister Caluin he alledgeth that God hath stirred vp Apostels or Euangelistes synce the time of the primitiue churche and hath doone so at this tyme. Within a lyne after he addeth yet I call that extraordinary because in churchs vvell dressed it hath no place Of the like sort yt ys that he alledgeth owt off my booke whereas vpon Maister Caluin so of my wordes which affirme that God hath raised vp sometimes Euangelistes immediatly by his spirit vvithout any calling off men he woulde conclude that the office is ordinary and perpetuall then which bouldnes what can be greater Out of Bucer he alledgeth that there be now Euāgelists Where if his maner of speach that there are found Euangelists could not yet that which he addeth that God doth it by merueilous meanes ought to haue kept him from that allegacion except he thinck that a miraculous calling be perpetuall and ordinary Out of the Confess is brought that thes offices off Apostles c. are mynistries off the new Testament els should they haue great iniury seing they were both in tyme and dignitie first but who the D. set a part would euer conclude therof that they are perpetuall ministeries especially considering it addeth immediatly in plaine wordes that the Apostles are ceased and Pastors come into their places which could not be yf it had any such meaning as the D. phansieth Where it saith that there are yet Prophetes yf that were not which I alledged out of it towhing the shutting owt of those three ministeries from them which are now in vse yet the manner off speaking there are yet found the same with that of Bucer before alledged declareth that they ment therby an extraordinary calling For so we vse to speak of thinges rare and not in commen vse Last off all where yt is alledged owt off Bullinger that the wordes mentioned to the Ephe. are confounded yt doth not make for him but is answer both against the most places brought to proue Timothe a bishop and against those which he hath cited in the 3. and 4. Diuision off this chap. for if those ministries being separate one from an other their names notwithstanding be confounded yt muste follow that not euery one which is called an Apostle or bishop c. hath that function which is by some proprietie seuered from other and which the Apostle mēt to the Eph. for where one man being an Apostle is sometimes called a Prophet Bishop Doctor Elder and Deacon yf he will say that because he is called by thes titles he did therefore all those functions proper vnto those mynistries beside thabsurdities before shewed the vntruth doth manifestly appeare in the office off disposing off the churches money Whereoff the Apostles discharging them selues ceassed not therefore sometime to be called by the same name off Deacons And to vse those authorities which he hath brought Ierom calleth I say the Prophet both Euangelist and Apostel Yet I think the D. doth not esteme Ierom to haue had so litle iudgement as to think that he was ether off them in that signification they are taken of Saint Paul. likewise where he hath cited out off Caluin that Timothe was a Pastor when Caluin calleth him also an excellent Doctor and maketh that a seuerall function from the Pastor yt is cleare that he spake not off
about An. 266. had no authoritie but was a poore Bishop vnder persequnting Emperours And if the Emperours had been Christian then as they were heathen yet how cometh yt to passe he doth not vnderstand that in going about to make men belieue that the Bishop off Rome at that tyme had authoritye to limite dioceses parishes c. in the church off God he setteth vpp a Pope and armeth him with that authoritie which he neuer came vnto foure hundreth yeares after Finally if this Monke were off any credite he is directly against him euen in this cawse For off the wordes before alledged yt is cleare that he appointed vnto euery elder a seuerall parish vvherin he should keepe him selfe which is against the pluralitie off benefices that he so greatly striueth for He asketh where it appeareth that the scripture deuided nationall churches into congregations and parishes I answer that off that the scripture willeth elders to be chosen for euery competent congregation and particular bodie off church and also that thes assemblies as all other thinges in the church should be with the greatest conuenience so that as Ierusalem had commendation in hauing her building knit closely together euen so the church as much as may be conueniently should haue her partes not onely in a spirituall bond off charitie but in neighbourhood of dwellinges well trussed one with an other yt is apparant that although the scriture doth not mention parishes nor precisely define off the compasse yet yt giueth the rule wherby they are squared owt For when a parish well bounded is nothing els but a nomber of those families which dwelling neere together may haue a commodious resort and the assemblies off the churches owght so to be ranged as they may be neerest the place off their spirituall refection yt followeth that the scripture hathe after a sort gyuen the churches tarriers and that a parish well bounded for the spirituall intercommuning hath testimonie owt off the word off God. Where he asketh proofe off this that dioces is taken for a parish yt appeareth first that in the primitiue church bishops in steed that they are now off such a dioces were then of a parish afterward when they began to hooke into their possession moe churches then they were able to feed they were called bishoppes off dioceses ▪ yet the name parish was not quite worne owt but indifferently vsed for a dioces as appeareth by the councell of Ancyran where one translation hauing dioces thother hath parish And yt shall better appear in the 8. Tract that at the first there were dioceses off so narrow compas that diuers parishes in England may appear to be off greater circuit then they That the place off buriall mentioned off Euseb wat in the field may as I saied be gathered off the vse off the church which I haue noted in an other place That the churches of Christ had nether thē nor in the time that the D. imagineth any churchyardes ys manifest considering that then the temples wherunto the churchyardes were annexed were possessed off idolaters The answer to the incommodities off buriall in churchiardes that by that reason churches and other thinges must necessarily be remoued is a begging off that in question and otherwise insufficient For yt is in demaund wether it be conuenient and if it had been yet being not necessary it owght for such abuses to be taken away And beside the incommodities assigned it was as may appeare taken of the Papistes from the superstition off the heathen For Lycurgus made this law that men should burye in cyties and round about the temples Now residence being necessary and that principally for preaching off the word it appeareth how disordered a power yt is off the bishop off whose licence the pastor both chosen and ordeined must depend in a thing precisely commaunded to him by the Lord and for omitting wherof the thunderbolt of Gods course is from heauē throwen vpon him Therfore the chapter intitled Off licences to preach shall be heere in a word or two dispatched First the D. charged with false dealing in that he surmiseth of the Ad. as if one might preach withowt their approbation to whom yt apperteineth answereth their meaning is plaine belike he hath it by reuelation for in their wordes there is not a title sounding thar waies But he saith yt was their owne case which put from preaching would haue preached against the bishops will. Where leauing that to those that may haue knowledge therof I answer that he towcheth not the matter For both they speake ād my reply was of those which ordeined to preach the gospell are sent to their charges not able to doo their duties withowt further licence as if a man charged to doo a thing should be bound hand and foot of him that charged hym and layed at his mercy whether he wil lose him Wherunto he answeretth not a word Thirdly he laieth to my charge that I had not answered towching that the Adm. would haue preached against the bishops will a word wheroff is not found but onely in his latter book then which what greater dotage can there be as yf there could be default off answer whera there was no such thing obiected In that I saied vvithovvt their approbation to vvhom yt apperteineth he excepteth that there is an equiuocation yt being not set downe by whom the election should be made Where beside that yt was apparant before by a whole treatise what we think in that behalf and owt of place to speake off it heere his exception is too childish For to whomsoeuer thelection doth appertein this case remaineth the same whether it be vnlawfull to ordein one to preach the word and yet to keepe it still in his power whether he shall doo yt or no. Off this sort is that he saith I suppose no man may preach which hath not certein charge and onely in yt Wheroff although I make not heere one word off mention yet howsoeuer yt be taken this case remaineth one Where I shewed that the bishop could not alledge for defense that he vvhom he sendeth prisoner to his church is ether heritik or schismatick or suspected for that he ovvght not then to haue admitted hym vnto that ministery he vseth open falsehood For he saith I suppose that hypocrites schismatikes c. may be knowē forthwith or suspected may be by and by remoued Wheras first I haue not a word off Hypocrites and haue before manifestly tawght the contrary off that he heere forgeth that the church can not procede against Hypocrites that is those whose sinnes are not discouered and that God onely hath reserued their iudgement vnto him self Then where I shewe that those which are to be admitted to the ministery owgt to be free from suspicion off heresy or schisme the D. answereth as if I had saied that those which haue already bene in the ministery were vpon suspicion off heresy to be desposed Which what
and by after this tyme in which Lucius ys saied King of Britaines heare what ys reported by a writer euen off that age and which was for the most part in the warres off the Romans him self Amongest the Brytaines the people for a great part haue the rule To conclude Gildas himself in his inuectiue Epistle agaynst the Britaines maketh mentiō of diuers kinges as liuing all at one tyme but admit this were true that Lucius was King alone ouer all Brytaine yet was he vnder the Romane deputie and could attempt no change of Religion specially the Romaine and so vniuersally as ys supposed but with his allowance the Brytaines hauing amonge them at that tyme so valiant a Romane deputie called Albinus of whom Seuerus then Emperour stood hym self in some awe and durst attempt no warres abroad before he had fyrst ioined in sure amitie with him For to haue flamines was proper to the Roman religion but Druides proper to the Brytaines Which if at any time the Romans did put away to establish their owne flamines which doth not yet apeare by any historie yet that could they not doe ouer all Britaine according to Geffreis storie but onely so far as their owne prouince did extend For ouer all Britaine they were neuer Lordes seing that a Roman which saith he wrote that he saw writeth thus Part off this Island is a litle lesse then half ovvres vvhich vvhen Seuerus vvould vvholy subdue he entred into Calidonia For a litle before thes wordes he maketh the Britaines consist of two kindes of people whom be calleth Meatas and Calidonios and that the Romans had in their power onely the Meatas Againe consider what was the life off the Britaine 's in the daies of Seuerus the Emperour who liued a lytle after that Lucius ys saied King off Britaine and it vvill appeare most plainly that the Brytaines had not onely no such shew off a generall and open Christian church established amonge them as setteth forth Geffrey but also that they were far from any litle tast off Christ For thus yt ys written off them They liue in tentes naked their vviues are commen c. Ys it like that a people that abuseth wines in commen had such a constituted forme of a Christian church as Geffrey gyueth to vnderstand or was there euer such barberousnes off going naked off men and weomen where the word off God was tawght which commaundeth not onely modestie but semelynes It is therfore rather true which that ould father Gildas their owne countrey man speaketh off them the Britaines receiued the faith off Christ euen from the cōming off Christ and in the daies off Tiberius the Emperour but that was not publikely nor vniuersally by autoritie off Prince but off some few and off those how Of some Koldly off some soundly and how lōg vntill the tymes off Dioclesian the Tyrant which was after Lucius at least 132. yeares But if we will narrowly exact this storie of Geffrey yt will hardly fall owt that Lucius him self became a Christian according to his deliuering off the sterie For he saith yt came to passe by meanes off Eleutherius wo was made bishop off Rome in the daies of Commodus the Emperour anno 180. and yet maketh Lucius to die an 156. so by that reckening Lucius became Christian after he was dead at least xxiiij yeares Further if we well marck after what long blindnes off time this storie commeth to light and in what defect off any ould and good writer to keepe the memorie therof I dare warrant yow yt will proue but a fable The time when this is saied to be doon lacketh a good deale off 200. yeares after Christ a thowsand yeares after this we haue no knowen writer nether off our owne not forein that maketh any litle report off this chaunge off Archflaminrickes into archbishoprickes vntill the tyme off Geffrey who was made bishop off S. Asse in the daye off Henry the second And from vvhence fetcheth he this storie yt may be some will say he had yt off the ould Britaines and was by him onely tourned into latin but how likely is this to be true when ould Gildas dealeth thus plainly in report off his owne countrey monumentes The monumentes of vvriters yf there vvere any be ether burnt by fyre of ennemies or by nauy of citisens exiled caried far off doe not appeare But if any man will say perhaps this booke of Geffrey was one off those so caried away and afterwardes found he woteth not where was browght home againe this besides it is off yt self but a coniecture ys also plainly refuted by Geffrey him self who vvriteth storie almost off 200. yeares after Gildas and hath the bistorie off Bede in some places euen word for word That I speake nothing off his vntruth and toto childish errors in many places especially vvhen he maketh report off any matter of auncient tyme which might be some argument also to draw from hym opinion off antiquitie After that Geffrey had once coiued this storie there lacke no writers which also make mention theroff but so as they make some chaunge off his report As Platina who maketh but 25. flamines and 3. Archflamines belike moued by the Epistle off Gildas who maketh the nombre of all the cyties in Britaine to be but 28. although he alledge for his autor Ptolomey Thus far this autor vpon all which matter may appeare what folies they be which the D. auowcheth for truth and wheruppon he hath laied the foundacion off his archbishop Yow shall not be hable to shewe that the bishops which the Apostels planted were other then which with thelders had the ouersight of one particular congregation and therfore yowr proofes are alwaies by other thinges as dowtefull as the question in hande And if that vvere true yet maketh it nothing for the archbishop For what synewes are in this argumēt The Apostles placed bishops in euerie cytie therfore an Archbishop ouerseer off them in euery prouince After he saith yf by a piller of Antechriste yow vnderstand him or him as if I had not sufficiently shewed vvhō I mēte Who can patiently answer this wandring where the way is so plainly beaten and this is his commen practise to peece owte his answer Thirdly he saith he may take reportes off Antiquities from the papistes no man hindereth him But if he will take their reporte in their owne cawse and in a matter inuented to aduance the credite of the romishe seat that whilest Peter is made the founder of Archbishops and Patriarckes the Pope his supposed successor might haue the stewardship off them and they be the easelier holden in his obedience yf I saie he will belieue suche stories yt is to be feared leste it be the Lordes anger againste him wherby it is iuste that they shold belieue lies which vvill not belieue the truth And if the sentet of the archbishop had so occupied his sense
thapostels times at Philippos where Paul expresly saluteth diuers bishops at Ephesus froÌ„ wheÌ„ce certein bishops sent for came to MiletuÌ„ Likewise in the church off Thessalonica there were diuers Presidentes the same by the D. diuinitie that Bishop or Archbishop And as it was in those churches so yt ys like to haue bene in other off greate resorte to heare the worde off God and habilitie to enterteine a more plentifull ministery Nether let him as he is wont oppose vnto the manifest wordes off the scripture Ambroses exposition vpon the place to the Philippians nor that which goeth vnder Ieromes name vpon the same For as for Ambrose a childe may see how violently he forceth the texte and what inconuenience he runnethe into to make yt agree with the coustome off his times wherin this order was for the moste parte worne owt And as for the other he is a couÌ„terfaicte and so marked not onely because he contrarieth that which Ierome did plainly teache but also for that the forme off writing is farre off another complexion Yt can not be denied but that this order of God was strickeÌ„ at by diuers canons off Councels and that as this was the firste attempte which the deuill gaue to abridge the nomber off Bishops in the churche so yt was more aunciente then that other off robbing the villages and small Cyties off their bishops Vpon what rotten groundes this abuse crepte in cometh afterward to be considered here yt is to be noted that this corruption was not so generall but that often times yt admitted exception And notwithstanding bothe custome and Canons in that behalfe good men vpon occasion made no conscience to ordeine twoo bishops of one citie Euseb maketh mention of Narcissus and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parishe and if yt be true which he reporteth that the same was by reuelation from heauen yt ys a good argumente that this voice was as yt were a repeale off that custome which had bene browght in contrarie to the firste institution off god Yt is writteÌ„ off Augustine that he was made bishop off Hippo bothe by the instante requeste off Valerius then another bishop there and by the consente off the Metra politane Bishop off Carthage And albeit in consideration off the canons made to the contrarie Augustine was lothe to take the charge yet instantly required he accepted yt Augustine him selfe also was off aduise that in those places where was a Donatiste Bishop and a catholike if the Donatiste returned vnto the vnitie of the churche then he should be receiued into the felowship off the bishops office with the catholike bishop Where he putteth onely thes exceptions if the people vvill suffer yt yf becavvse yt is not accoustomed the people vvill beare it Wherby is cleare that notwithstanding it was forbiddeÌ„ by canons yet he thowght yt not vnmeet to haue two bishops in one church if the people would beare it and if he were of this aduise notwithstanding the couÌ„cels to the coÌ„trary how much more would he haue thought it meet if the church had required aÌ„d made sute for it Also it is not to be forgotten that although this corruption off gyuing the name bishop to one in a church from the rest to whom it did off right belong be auncient yet godly men misliked it and by all likelihood broke it of Which Ieromes wordes do apparantly import this coustome vvas in the church off Alexandria from S. Mark vntill Heraclas and Dionysius For onles there were some change then why would he not rather haue saied from S. Mark vntill his time considering that all that time there was continuall succession of church and bishops Therfore belike those godly men seing the mischeif like to ensue of that coustome and vnderstanding that thinges owght to be called to the apostolick institution changed that coustome Furthermore it is diligently to be considered that this order off hauing one onely in euery church to haue the name of Bishop ouerspred not the church soudenly and at a clap but entred by litle and litle so that it is like there were diuers ages past or euer this had a generall passage thorowgh all the churches in the world By all which it may appeare how the Ans is abused in saying it can not be shewed from Christes time that euer there were two bishops in one church Thes thinges being thus laied let vs now come to Cyprians Testimonies Caput 3. VNto the firste diuision I haue answered In the second to proue that Cyprian speakethe off an Archbishop the D. concludeth thus yt is the principall office of the archbishop to prouide that peace and vnitie be kept in the churche c. but the office off him whom Cyprian describeth is to keepe peace in the churche therfore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop This argumente is caste in the same moulde that those which he hathe vntrwly compared my reason vnto before and yt hathe almost more faultes then wordes But that the simplest maye see his dealing yt is to be vnderstanded that as the pretence off institucion off the Archbishop was to keepe peace and suppresse scismes so the onely pretence off translating the name off bishop from manie in one churche vnto one onely was the same as appeareth by the place off Ierome after discussed To let passe therfore that I haue proued and will after more appeare that there was then nether Archbishop nor Metropolitane and for disputacion sake to imagin Archbishops then yet when bothe the name and office Cyprian speaketh of agree vnto him which gouerneth in euerie churche or to speake as the D. speaketh diocese and the office onely withowte the name agreethe to the Archbishop yt must needes be meeter â—o refer Cypcians wordes to the Bishop then to the Archbishop seing that there be more cordes off reasons to pull them that waies then the other At the leaste yt is cleare that the Argument off the A. is faultie seing yt was not onely the principall office off the Archbishop to prouide for peace c. but the same also was the principall office off the Bishop as that vnder pretence wherof that kinde off Bishop was instituted Where he cometh to his oulde hole that althowghe the name be not there yet the office is I refere my selfe vnto that written before in that be halfe Howbeit here yt appeareth how he spake withowt booke saying all writers before the Nicene Councell make mention bothe off their names and offices when as Cyprian one off them hathe no worde off them Where he saithe Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius who had gouernement off all the prouince that is the question which becawse he coulde not proue he taketh graunted Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge and ouersight off all churches in Aphrica and for proofe alledgeth the 4. booke 8. Epistle he is abused for Cyprian dothe saie no suche thing He speaking there off himselfe and
by that Beza writeth vpon thes wordes he gaue all these vvhich belieued in him this dignitie or prerogatiue that they should be called the children off God. Now what this dignitie and preeminence was may easely be seen by that the bishop of Rome hauing preeminence or dignitie ouer the bishop off Constantinopel Alexandria c. had nothing therby more then they sauing onely the first place in their meetinges Seing therfore thes wordes translated to haue power signifie nothing but to haue honour which consisted onely in hauing the highest place by thes wordes off the Councell groweth nothing to the Metropolitan but onely to sit in the highest place at meetinges This may also appeare by the same h Councell where yt is said that if there rise disorder in any churche vvhich is not compounded it ovvght to be decided at the prouinciall Councell which was therfore to be houlden twife euery yeare in which faultes vvere to be corrected not by the Metropolitane but by the bishops together And becawse the Councell here referreth vs to that accoustomed before yt is to be considered what that was so far as we haue testimonie The bishops assembled at Nice browght their quarrels one against an other and offred them to the Emperour which they would not haue doon at least so generally if there had bene any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan The Emperour likewise receiuing their bils and answering that it perteined not vnto him to decide those matters sendeth them not to their Metropolitanes to be iudged but adiourneth them to the iudgement off god Yet yf there had bene any suche autoritie ecclesiasticall off the Metropolitanes the Emperour as he was very religious in those obseruations would not by all likelihood haue failed in that Likewise writing ioyntly to Alexander bishop and Arius Elder off Alexandria amongeste other thinges he saith it vvas not meet they should rule so great a people being deuided amōge them selues Where it is to be obserued that howsoeuer thes wordes so great a people be taken whether for the churche off Alexandria or for all Agipt c. the Bishop gouerned not alone but by cōsent and aduise of the Elders of that church Then if the Ans will refer this gouernement to the whole countreis off Aegypt Lybia c. and take it in that signification he doth for bearing dominion and commaunding the rest not the bishop onely but euery Elder off Alexandria had commaundement not onely ouer the Elders but ouer the bishops them selues off other churches Which if it be absurd that whereoff it followeth must be likewise This is all that I finde the Nicene Councell gyueth to the Metropolitan aboue the rest how litle it is and how small a part off that the Answ presumeth let the reader iudge That he owght to be no bishop which is made withowt consent off his Metropolitan is a very seely prerogatiue seing yt was the order of the church in those times that all the bishops off the Prouince shoulde be at the making off a Bishop And as the election off the people was voide if the Metropolitane were not at it so was it also if there were not three bishops at the least present Let vs see now whether the practise of the Metropolitanship will fall owt any more fanourable for this pretended iurisdiction Athanasius foloweth on whom the D. woulde fasten this archbishopricke firste because Ischaras submitted him selfe vnto him by lettres As if euery one which hath offended an other doothe by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop whom he hathe offended and as if Ischaras owght not to haue doone as muche vnto any bishop in the Prouince yf he had belonged vnto his parishe as he did vnto that of Athanasius Secondly becawse Arsenius and those off his diocese wrote lettres off submission vnto Athanasius The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. heade that what soeuer he meeteth with he turnethe into yt For there is there no mention off diocese but off a citie As for the submission he maketh yt is not to Athanasius but vnto the ecclesiastisticall canons onely he acknowledgeth him Metropolitane and that withowt his sentence he will make no Ecclesiasticall decree perteining vnto the churche which we denie not For we confesse that there were then Metropolitanes and as Arsenius coulde not make anie decree to wching the whole churche in the prouince no more coulde Athanasius withowte Arsenius as hath bene before owt off the former booke declared But that he was subiecte vnto Athanasius there ys not a worde the cleane contrary is to be plainly seene For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus vve and those vvith vs salute the vvhole companie off sacred men vvhich are in thy iurisdiction by which wordes he manifestly exempteth him selfe frō the iurisdiction off Athanasius Wherupon yt muste folowe that the office off Metropolitaneship in those daies implied no subiection nor autoritie to commaunde ouer other bishops in his prouince And Athanasius in calling the bishops there his fellovv ministres often times declareth in what place he had them not as subiects but as his fellowes And that the A. escape not with that Popishe shifte that Athanasius therby did declare his humilitie yt is to be seene in that booke that the other bishops doo more then half a dosen times call him their felovve mynister barely withowte other title Now if Athanasins not off right but off his greate humilitie called him self their felowe mynister yet the other bishops in so calling him when they were subiecte vnto him and at his commaundement are to be charged not only as voide off Christian humilitie but also as forgetfull euen off all commen ciuilitie and good manners That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes and the Prouinces there as they are called perteineth nothing vnto this question for there were no bishops in that place and what he did in that behalfe did not as Archbishop but as Bishop that territory belonging vnto Alexandria And not onely Archbishops but bishops yea Elders visited the parishes off other bishops As for that the parishes in the territory off Mariotes had neuer◠bishop but belonged vnto Athanasius beside that I haue shewed that corruptions had greatly preuailed at that time it is to be obserued that it is there put as a strange thing and vnwonted that one bishop should haue so large grownd For vnles that be the autors ende there was no cause why he shoulde haue vsed that kinde off speach Which may better appeare forsomuche as Socrates speaking off this storie interlaceth the same sentence when as speaking off the places off bishops els where he neuer mentioneth any such thing The canons off Arles Councell off that attributed vnto the Apostles and of Antioch follow The first hath nothing not graunted and serueth for filling onely The second supposed of the Apostles ys the same with that of Antioch That off
one Then let him answer whether thes sayinges a bishop and an other minister off the word are all one a bishop and an other minister off the word be not all one be opposed and set one against an other If he can deny none off these then it ys iustly concluded that this inuention off man which hath made a bishop to differ from another mynister off the worde is againste the truth Because I loue not that compas off wordes which the D. delighteth in I concluded shortly and yet sufficiently to the vnderstanding off any that dothe not willingly blindefolde him selfe My argument ys The best deciding off controuersies vvas in the apostels time but that vvas not by archbishops vvherfore the best deciding of cōtrouersies is not by archbishops for proofe that yt was not by archbis I set downe that there were no archebishops then Vnto this deformed face off reason as he calleth yt let vs see how formally he answereth Firste he saith we are not bounde to the forme of gouernemēt vsed by the Apostels and therin referreth him selfe to that he hath and shal saie where also let him take his answer Secondly that althowghe the Apostels had not the name off Archbishops yet they had the office which I haue shewed to be a shift of the Papistes Then yt is to be obserued how he proueth that thapostels had the office of an archbishop and in what good logicke Archbishops haue the direction off many churches the ending off controuersies c. the Apostles had the same therfore the Apostels were archbishops by this reason a man maie proue not onely diuers but contrary thinges to be all one seing contraries haue diuers thinges wherin they agree So that first this kinde off reasoning hath the fault of those ridiculous argumentes which the D. propoundeth pag. 316. secondly yt taketh for graunted which is the question For he presumeth that the Archbishops office kepeth the church in godly quietnes which is debated Thirdly to proue the Apostels autoritie in the churches which is not in question he hath made a greate muster of testimonies to proue the archbishops not a word After he cyteth Ambrose to proue that Apostles are bishops Yt is greate merueill if he kepe good order in the church for whose establishement the Answ is constreined thus to confound and make a broile off all and it is before confuted Howbeit admitting that the bishops succede vnto the Apostels in preaching the word and gouerning the church I haue shewed how that is a whip to driue the archbishop cleane owt of the church off god And this is here to be obserued that when it is saide the bishops succede vnto the Apostels c. that must be vnderstanded off the Apostles bishops and such as they instituted For what bishops haue better right to succede the Apostles then they But those were as I haue shewed bishops off singular congregations bishops which had no superiotitie ouer their fellowbishops as Ierome doth confesse In the end he saith If I can proue by good autoritie that one was gouernour amongest the 12. Apostles it shall not seme strange to haue an archbishop ouer a Prouince If vpon this that one had gouernement of 12. assembled in a particular place he can conclude that there should be one gouernour off the ministers in a Prouince I can with better reason conclude that there may be one to gouerne all the ministers in the worlde For if because one gouerned twelue therfore one may gouerne all in Prouince then becawse one may gouerne all in a Prouince I will conclude that one may gouerne all in the worlde As towching the number off those which are gouerned there is not so much difference betwene the ministers off a Prouince and the ministers off the whole church as betwene 12. and the ministers off some whole Prouince Towching the distance off place yt is as much betwene a Prouince and the wole extent off Christianitie as betwene a particular place off an acre breadeth and some Prouince Wherfore this reason is more fauorable to the Pope then to the Archbishop Peters superioritie shall be after seen where also this sentence of Ierome shall be answered Onely here let it be obserued that the Answ hath borowed this reason off Pope Anaclete which alledgeth it to proue Archbishops And it is browght also of Pighius against the protestantes which denied that there owght to be any archbishops as shall appeare herafter more at large The place off Caluin is handled afterward Bucers vpon the Ephes I haue answered That owt off his booke de Reg. Ch. the same in effect hath the same answer Howbeit it is here to be noted how the D. thorowgh greedy desire off seeming to say somwhat putteth downe with one hand that he setteth with the other For to the maintenance off the archbishop and bishop here be browght two testimonies one of Ierome thother of Bucer cleane contrary If Ierome say true that the superioritie off one Bishop ouer an other is by coustome not by institution off God then is that vntrue pretended out off Bucer that it pleased the holie goste yt should be so For if it be off the holie goste it is the institution of god The D. therfore must forgoe one off thes seing that both will neuer drawe in one forowgh The contrarietie with my self which the glosse chargeth me with is for that pag. 349. I saied owt off Eusebius that as long as thapostles liued if any vvent about to corrupt the doctrine they dit it in the darck and here owt off the Apostle I affirme there vvere heresies and schismes Wherin what contrarietie there is and what a trifler this is let the reader iudge sauing that if there were any contrarietie it is not mine with my self but Eusebius with the Apostle The Answ would gird vp his Archbishop in smaller roume that he might seme les growen owt off faschion He saith therfore the archbishop when a schisme or heresie riseth determineth yt according to the law established by the church Wherin he speaketh absurdly considering that the church can make no other rule wherby he may procede in decision off schismes and heresies then in referring him to the rule off the scripture So the summe off this answer is the Archbishop may not determin the matter at his pleasure but according to the word off god As thowgh the question were by what rule controuersies should be decided and not by whom For when the controuersie at Antioch was referred to the Apostles c. in Ierusalem it was not permitted vnto them otherwise to iudge off it then according to the word Now therfore let it be obserued how aptly the D. answereth To abat◠the swelling autoritie off the Archbishop I alledge that in deciding cōtrouersies yt is not permitted to any one to determin vvhat is the vvill off God in that behalf The D. saith the archbishop must determin by the word off God.
base citie equall vvith the reste referreth that to the deacons vvhich in some places vvere preferred before the elders who seeth not but that speaking against the truthe he was so amazed that wordes comminge from him reason stickethe yet in his penne For what reason is there that Ierome shoulde therfore saie the bishop off Eugubium vvas equall vnto the Bishop off Rome notvvithstanding the bishop off Rome vvere his superior because the deacon vvas preferred in Rome before the elder What giue is here to ioyne thes together or what cawse was there that Ierome shoulde speake basely off the metropolitanes autoritie ouer the bishop because the deacon was preferred before the elder ys there anie reason that because the deacon did iniurie vnto the elder therfore Ierome shoulde speake sparingly of the metropolitane â—nd doo him iniurie also moreouer if this was the occasion why he spake so off a bishop because certeine deacons were preferred before the elders considering that that coustome was onely at Rome as Ierome him self declareth why should he make the bishop off Tanais a small towne in Egypte equall with the bishop off Alexandria the metropolitane citie there and the bishop Rhegium equall with the bishop off Constantinople For seing that mischeif off the preferment off Deacons before the elders was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speake thus off theÌ„ if that had bene the cause which Erasmus alledgeth Where he addeth vvhen Ierome saith the bishops and elders vvere equall that is to be vnderstanded that the elder vvas equall vvith the bishop in that they vvere bothe preferred vnto the deacon I meruaile the Ans is not ashamed to alledge that saying without all colour off truthe For I haue alledged diuers other places owte off Ierome where he speaking absolutely withoute respecte off any deacon affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning And what a ridiculous disputacion doth he make Ierome to hould For it is all one as if a maÌ„ after longe discourse to proue LondeÌ„ and Yorke equall in the ende shoulde conclude that Yorke were equall with London because they be bothe greater then Nuington Now let the reader iudge what vnworthie outcries the D. vseth bothe before and after off guilful dealing and shifting the place of Ierome therby to drowne the voice of the trwthe and whether I haue interpreted it according to his naturall meaning and as other godlie and learned haue doone and whether he contrarily to mainteine his firste saying hath vsed shiftes partely popishe ouerthrowinge the answers off those which haue trauailed againste popery aswell as mine partely fonde and childishe which he woulde beare owt with Erasmus autoritie withowt any weight off reason Likewise how he after dallieth in his longe translation and repetition of Ierome to no purpose That a doctor differeth from a pastor hathe bene shewed that he is inferior vnto him appeareth not onely because the Apostle placeth him after where he dothe moste exactly set downe the order off preaching ministers but also that the giftes required for that office are as hathe bene shewed lesse wherunto may be added the practise off the elder churches which estemed the doctor alwaies vnder him whom they called bishop or Pastor That the elder which gouerneth onely is inferior to the Doctor appeareth bothe in that his giftes be fewer and that the Apostel giueth more honour to him then to the elder That Deacons are vnder those elders for that their charge is to serue the tables onely and therfore but a part off the churche where the elders gouernemeÌ„t is ouer the whole Likewise for that the deacons charge being in thinges perteining to the nourishement off the body muste gyue place to that off the elders whose watche is ouer the sowles Al which the ministery off the Doctor onely excepted which is shut vp commoÌ„ly in the bishop is confirmed by continuall practise off the churche which vppon all occasions off speaking off this ministerie placeth the bishop before the elder and the elder before the deacon and precisely the foresaid Ignarius sheweth that the deacon is vnder the elder thelder vnder the bishop where that thelder which onely gouerneth and not onely he which teacheth is vnderstanded at which hole the D. would creepe out shall be after in proper place declared So appeareth that order in the ministery and diuersitie off degrees are defined off by the word of God and that euen in the Ecclesiasticall ministery ther is inequalitie althowgh all pastors be equall amongeste them selues and withall that order standeth withowt the archbishop or any other deuised ministery Chrysost browght by me is shamfully corrupted and the corruption opened in the former diuis his allegations there owght to be rulers in the church and order to punishe faultes so erksomly repeted are Idle yt being confessed and withall shewed that there is none off those but are doone withowt his ether bishop or Archbishop where hauing no reason he falleth to exhortacion that I would not stand in my conceite but thincke the gouernement off his bishop better then that laid forth by vs if he can compound with the word of God with the reformed churches Apostolical and present with the purest writers ould and newe I with my conceites as he speeaketh will be ready to hould tharchbishops stirup That he affirmeth the forme off gouernement wherin one is aboue all necessary in our commen wealthe althowgh I haue shewed that I greatly allow of it yet that yt is necessary and that the Prince and ParlemeÌ„t can not vpon occasion alter yt especially without breache off the lawe off God which onely maketh the necessitie vve speake of ys an vntrwth apparant to all that haue euer tasted off holy or humane letters And althowghe yt semeth he hath couenanted vvith him self to speake all he supposeth may please yet his knowledge answering not his wâ—ll he is found here to abridge the authoritie off the ciuile powre which he thowght to haue stretched owt and to binde it to that which the lord lefte at the libertie theroff Where he saithe the externall gouernement off the church vnder a Christian magistrat muste be according to the kinde and forme of gouernement vsed in the comon wealth it partly hath aÌ„d further God willing shall appeare that the gouernemeÌ„t of the church debated is certein by the vvord off God and vnchangeable As for his bolt so soone shot and with so smal drafte of reason yt is brokeÌ„ with the vvinde off his owne mouth For where he maketh the externall gouernement throwghe owte his whole booke at the pleasure of the Prince which is his principall hould here he teacheth that yt is not in the princes powre onles she will ether put of or deuide her crowne vvith others to put downe the archbishop for the externall gouernement off the church saith he muste be according to the kinde and forme off gouernement off the comon wealth
councell as appeareth by his precise denying off it to be in that canon vvhere otherwise he would haue saied in that Councell it appeareth that he vseth lesse synceritie in thes holy matters then the Heathen â—n their prophane For Alexander counseilled to set vpon Darius in the night answered that he vvould not steale the victorie but the D. concealeth from his reader euen that which he knew my answer must needes discouer Where he saith our metropolitan calleth Synodes althowgh not prouinciall and propoundeth the matters first is nothing to the purpose for calling onely diocesan Synodes he doth nothing which a simple bishop may not aswell as he â–ª and therfore no cause vvhy there should be an archbishop in this respect Secondly all know that those Synodes he speaketh off are houlden for the moste pate by deputies at his appointement So that vvhich the D. vtterly condemneth in the Discipline vve propounde touching the chusing off a president euery Synod is doen here and that at the plrasure off one man not by consente off the mynisters yea by appointement off one for the moste parte no Ecclesiasticall person in matters perteining to the ministrie Thirdly I would know by what right the archbishop may call his diocesan Synodes â–ª yf by Ecclesiasticall then vvhy not also the Prouinciall considering that they are of one kinde ether both Ecclesiasticall or both cyuill Yf he do yt by ciuill autoritie vvhy doth he not aswel vvaite for the magistrates commandement in one as in the other He saith the archishops office consisting in sondry other thinges besides calling Synodes propounding matters ouerseing the limites owght not to ceasse althowgh he doo none off these Yt being manifeste that these were the cheife cawses vnder pretence wheroff he was browght in and especially to thend that controuersies and contentions amongest the mynistrie by Synodes called and ordered by him might he ended yt must follow that if wee may spare him for these we may easely be with owt him for the rest and so this is not for the amendement but for the ouerthrow off his surisoiction Because wee agree in the matter and I haue before shewed that the metropolitanes were appointed to ouersee that none passed his boundes I omit the iniury he dothe in supposing that I send him to the ninth Canon for that matter when as the word there by all indifferency owght rather to be referred to the councell in the text then to the canon in the margent Where I say that this ouersight off limites may be withowt an archbishop he sayth yt may be beste by him whereoff let the reader vpon the former allegations off both Sydes iudge where he affirmeth yt no good argument againste the archbishop that he doth not kepe the olde Canons owt off vse with vs seing our archbishop houldeth off those in times past and hath for his cheifest defense that there where archbishops in times paste all see if there be not the same causes off them now that were then how at the least this hould is throwne downe Where I shew that our archbishop in giuing licences to preach in a dousen dioceses at the leaste breaketh the same order for the keping vvheroff he vvas ordeined he answereth yt is profitable Where beside the vntruth before shewed he condemneth that order off the Councell off Constantinople that decreed against that wandring and ouerthroweth one off the cawses wheruppon the metropolitans office standeth That parte off the difference of the metropolitan from other bishops rose off the commoditie off the citie and for that yt vvas honoured vvith the Emperours courte is manifest by the encrease and decrease lifting vp and throwing downe off the authoritie off the Patriarch all seates That the Emperour might make the metropolitan seate which he would I well vnderstood seing I set it downe before but the question to where yt is meetest the Archbishop should be if there must be one And my reason was forsomuche as the place moste fyttest hath well and happely wanted him therfore our churche may be well without him His trifling in the two translations argueth that to fill vp he careth not if his reader peele strawes for nothing â—ether off them is againste that I setdowne The cauil against my order becawse I come from the councel of Antioche backe to Cyprian is too simple For yt is not as his for one matter but for diuers beside that I reprehended him for that yt skilleth much to obserue the order off times when question was off the time and antiquitie of tharchbishop Whether Cyprians wordes do flatly forbid any one bishop to haue autoritie ouer an other muche les ouer all I leaue yt be iudged off that before likewise how honeste an exception yt is againste this sentence that yt was spoken in a Councell where an error was decreed also in what sense I called Cyprian metropolitan further how vntrwe yt is that he which denieth the autoritie of one bishop ouer an other exempteth the ministers either from cyuill or ecclesiasticall subiection or punishement Lastly what a cauil yt is that when the correction of the disorders in the ministrie is gyuen to the cyuill magistrat the prince therby is ouercharged Now if the reader finde vpon the discourse before that the churche well gouerned in Cyprians time had no archbishop nor metrapolitane that had autoritie ouer others when there was moste neede considering there was then no christian bishops Then yt is manifeste that there is now les cawse when wee haue a Christian magistrate which alledged here by me the D. him selfe althowgh he had good will to bite at durst not come neere His cauill that I alledged this canon falsely attributed vnto the Apostels is answered beside that I shew that yt being falsely assigned to them is notwithstanding the true canon off the Councell off Antioche The Canon is as I haue alledged nothing nether added nor diminished which might disaduaÌ„tage the D. cause any â—ote whether the bishop according to that canon may doo that which apperteineth vnto his owne parish without the archbishop whether the archishop taketh matters owt off their handes concludeth them not making the bishops prime contrary to the tenure off that canon which the D. denieth I leaue to the readers iudgement his especially which hath seene the marchandise and trafique off his courtes And it may partly appeare by the boke off the 7â— archbishops where Canterbury is made the head off all our churches all bishops svvorne to canonicall obedience off that archbishop and defense off all Priuiledges and liberties of that seate â–ª Where the bishop off London is his deane to cal synodes to publishe his decrees to make retourne off th execution VVinchester his Chauncelour Lincolne his vice chancelour Salisburie his chanter VVorcester his chaplaine Rochester his cros bearer when that bagage was Wher his autoritie is said to haue no certeine boundes but almost as
b Diuis 9. pag. 442. c Councel Neocaesar d Possido in vita August Instit 4. l. ca. 4. 3 se vpon the eight coÌ„ â–ª maund a in the praef to the 3. ca. of this tr b vpon Phil. ca. 1. c 2. cap. off this tra Diuis 15. pag 445. Euse li. 1. de vit Const a Athana Apol. 2. b Costerius in the life off Ambro. c IeroÌ„ ad Rusticum Monach. d 1. Cor. 10 e Ier. vpon Titus Ier ad Oceanum f Di. 16. 17 pag. 446. g 4. carth 14. 15. ca. Tyron c. 5 Pag. 471 â–ª In the booke intituled the Discipline c. a 4. conc Cart. c. 32 Sozom. lib. 3. c. 9. Athanas 2. Apol. b August Epist â—0 a Possido invit Au. b Roma cap â–ª 3. c vpoÌ„ the eight coÌ„maund a Cal. inst 4. lib ca. â— sect 17. a M. Fox in the boke off M. Tindal c. b VpoÌ„ the 8. coÌ„maund c M. Elm. d 473. e Possid in vit August f Ad NepotianuÌ„ opa 472. â— pag. 83. pag. 200. pag. 473. Pag. 473 Conc. Ty roÌ„ 3 can 5. pag. 473. Diuis 18. pag. 447. Cart. c 34 Iud. 8. v. Diuis 19. pag. 447. Euseb 7. li. ca. 30. Ruffin 1. lib. ca. 19. Athana Apol. 2. Diuis 20. pag. 448. Ioh. 20. 1â— Theod li. 5. cap. 8. Socr. li. â— cap. 6. Diuis 21. pag 449. a 1. Tim. 3 â— c Vpon the 8. coÌ„maund Ierom. ad Nepot Diuis 22. pag. 450. Diuis 23. 24. 25. pag. 451. 1. Tim. 6. 6. 8. vpon 4. Ephes Diuis 26. pag. 452. CAP. VI. Pag. 454. 1. Cor. 4. 1. Diuis 4. pag. 455. * Tract 1. Diui. 6. pag. 457. a Diui. 15. pag. 367. vpon the Ephes e Diu. 42. pag. 390. Diuis 7. pag. 458. 1. Cor. 15. 9. Diuis 10. pag. 461. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diui. 11. pag. 462. Heb. 5. 5. 6 a Diu. 31. pag. 380. Diuis 33. Pag. 381. b Diu. 14. pag. 465. c Diu 32 pag. 381. Diuis 41. pag. 389. d Diui. 33. pa. 381. e di 1617. pag. 467. f Diu. 41. pag. 389. a Diu 43. pag. 390. Diuis 50. pag. 396. Diuis 70. pag 417. b Diu. 18. pag. 469. Iohn 3. 8. a d 70. 71 pag. 4. 7. b â— Tract c in the 2. and 3. ca. off this Tract d di 16. 17 pag. 446 Throwgh desire off making no great chaunge off the order laid forth by the Doctor vvherby the reader should be muche troubled in collatioÌ„ of our bokes and partly for that my papers vvent so sone to the printâ— vvherby I could not correct that my self aftervvard misliked at is come to pas that there are diuers thinges vvherin by order it might haue bene better prouided for memory VVhich I haue partly endeuoured to help by this direction vvherby yt shall not be vneasy to finde any off the principal pointes conteined in this book THe scripture is a perfect rule off all actions which can fall into maÌ„s life aswell in defining thinges vnnariable as in giuing rules wherby thinges variable by circunstance may be compassed page lvij c. Whether refer that wherin is shewed what of Moses law remaineth page xciij Likewise that the Actes of thapostles are necessary for vs to folow page clv. As appeareth namely in the gouernement off the church disputed throwghowt the whole book and in that communitie they vsed which is not now Anabaptisticall cc. viij Hether also refer that yt is the vertue off a good law to leaue as litle as may be in the discretion off the iudge xciiij Also that yt ys one thing to be expressed and an other to be commaunded in the scripture xlv Wherupon the argument off autoâ—â—â—ie off the scripture is good 43. 81 But nawght from men especially in diuine matters xviij and xlvij Whether refer that the Godly writers and holie martyre died in error vj. Wheroff the example browght by me off free will is handled 54. an other browght by the D. off the millenaries althowgh he in part slaundereth the ould fathers in that behalf delij Discipline Ciuil THe magistrat ought to be seuerer in punishing offeÌ„ces vnder the gospell then vnder the law cxj. cxviij Neglecters off the word are punishable by the word lxx The law off capitall punishements remaineth xcviij Contemners off the word ought to be put to death lxviij Murtherers cij Incestuous and adulterous persons c. The punishing off the breaches off the second Table by death and not off the first is to begin at the wrong end cxvij Discipline Ecclesiasticall THe Ecclesiasticall discipline is prescribed in the word as the doctrine ccccxl Aswell vnder the gospell as vnder the law ibid. Amplified by comparison off the Ark Tabernacle Temple ccccxliiij Confirmed by examples off Dauid and Salomon which attempted nothing in the church gouernement without the expres word off God ccccxliiij Also off others lxxxvj That the form theroff owght not to be allwaies according to the forme off the coÌ„mon wealth cxxx clix ccxcviij dciiij That yt ys not allwaies conuenient that the form of the commen wealth should beframed to the form off the churche gouernement ccxxvij That the churche gouernement is one off the three markes off the church liij That yt is safely taken from the Apostels times and dauÌ„gerously from the first 500. yeares after them That the externall gouernement off the church is euill distinguished from the spiritual That yt hindereth not the ciuil discipline ij Calling THe callinges vnâ—â— the mynistery are defined off in the word of god For tha 〈◊〉 â— giftes necessary for the gouernement off the church fall into the offices prescribed in yt 462. Where are rehersed the proper giftes wherby they are seuered amoÌ„gest theÌ„ selues This is also shewed by that it is not lawfull to diminish those the lord hath set and therfore not to ad vnto them cccclxiiij Likewise by the demaunde the Pharisies made vnto Iohn ccccxxxvj A calling lawfull and yet extraordinary page xxxâ—â—j The Apostels Prophetes and Euangelistes are euil distinguished by the D. cccvij There can be none off these functions now withowt an extraordinary calling ccciij The same coulde not be a bishop Euangelist and Apostle at once cccxviij Epaphroditus was no Apostle in that sense that S. Peter was ccciiij An Euangelist could not withowt his fault be made a bishop much les could an Apostle 321. Timothe was an Euangelist and no bishop cccxij The abusing off the writers both ould and nue to proue Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes ordinary ministers cccxxvij What maner a men they were which after those sent foorth into the whole world called them selues Apostles cccviij Hereupon we refuse the callinges of Archbishop otherwise called MetropolitaÌ„ and our kinde of bishop ArchdeacoÌ„ and deane as those which taken euen for the very principall church officers haue no ground in the word of God Proued in that they are conteined in nether of the places off the Ephesians or Corinthians where al the ministeries Ecclesiasticall are
is a popishe shifte as I haue shewed sufficiently before confuted yt hath no grounde in the vvorde testimony wherout he woulde pull yt For by a fygure off metonymy he noteth the peoples voice because by giuinge it they gaue also testimony what they the wght off him Where it is to be noted that the D. giueth no more to the churche off God then S. Paul giueth to straungers froÌ„ yt of whom he willeth that the bishop shall haue a good report There followeth the open violence doone vnto August wordes Where first let the reader obserue againe that this wresting of the example of Eradius against the election of the church was taken from Pighius as appeareth manifestly But for answer vnto Pigbius and the D. it muste be vnderstanded how for that election of Eradius to be bishop after August decease there were assembled two bishopes besides August 6. Elders beside Eradius with the reste of the clergie and people For what purpose all thes if it were in Augustines powre to choose onelie After yt appeareth that Augustine did call the people to haue there consente because he had experience off trouble and discontentement of the people off Millen for that Seuerus the bishop there did appoincte his successor before his death withowte speakinge any thinge theroff vnto them vvhich could not be auoided off Augustine if he mente to chuse any againste the will off the people For yt had bene better for him to haue appoincted one as Seuer us did vvithowte communicatinge the matter vnto them then in communicatinge yt to take one againste their willes Againe where the D. vppon those wordes I vvill haue Eradius my successor woulde haue that Augustine onely had the election off him he is coÌ„futed by and by after with his owne wordes I saie that I vvill haue him because I knovve that yovv vvill haue him And after he vvilleth that the publike notories shoulde as vvell note their voices as his vvill in this matter that saith he your consentes fall not to the grounde or become voide Wherunto also pertaine the subscriptions of them which folowed Which althowgh the D. saith are referred onely vnto the peticion off Augustine to be discharged off the hearinge off ciuill matters yet the wordes sounde otherwise For when he required their subscription to those Actes yt is cleare that he muste be vnderstanded to haue spoken off both those matters otherwise he woulde haue required subscription to that Acte and not vnto the Actes And where in the ende for an other reason he addeth Augustine was appointed bishope when Valerius bishope off Hippo was a liue I see not howe it maketh for him one word For if he think that Valerius off his Authoritie did it he is vtterly deceiued seing Possidonius writeth that Valerius spake vnto the people to prouide and to ordeine an elder off the cytie and sheweth how he was ordeined by the consente off all the people Which thinge yff it were not more lighter then the none daies off this Epistle off August yet yt mighte appeare by other as where he declareth that Pinianns was ordeined off the people elder off the church againste his will. moe might be alleadged but thes shall suffyse Sauinge that I muste put Maister D. in remembrance howe he merueilously forgetteth him selfe For grauntinge me before that the councell off Carthage wherat Augustine was presente decreed that the election shoulde be made by the commen consente off the people clerkes and bishopes in the same prouince he must heere needes confesse that ether Augustine did there ioine together in election with the church and the clergie as they terme them or that he brake the order off the Councell which could not be vvithowt his fault although the election off the church had bene as the D. esteemeth yt but a thing indifferent And the truth is yt appeareth that August had in that election an expresse regard vnto the decree off the councell which caused him beside the eldership off the church and people to send for two other bishops to be assistants Wherupon the reader may see how there is no light off wordes so cleare which Phighius and the Ans misled will not giue thâ—nser to darcken Besides that Ambrose calleth yt a diuine election which is made by the church which he could not onles yt were by the institution off God the whole discourse off the Epistle teacheth that the election off the people is there accounted off as necessary For when the church off Vercella did linger the time in not chusing a bishop vvhen it vvas also infected vvith Heretickes vvhy did not Amb. at least by vvay off Lapse take the election vnto him self but vvriteth vnto them reprehending them that they did not aske for a bishop as other churches were vvont to doo Gregor Nazienz speaking there off diuers elections vvherin still the people bore one part and that withowt controlement speaketh more for that election in that one place then the D. hath hitherto or in the residue of his treatise is able to shew And where he might seeme to haue somewhat nipped at it in shewing how at certeine elections some off the people were contentious he healeth that euen in the next sentence to this saying that at that time it was to be feared lest he ovvght to iudge the popular regiment better ordered then their ovvne and after maketh mention off the corruption off those which were fellow elders vvith his father but obserue I pray yow againe the D. faith fulnes which expouÌ„deth the worde churches the clergy Where learned he thus to expound Let it be that as in the scripture sometime so in the auncient fathers the eldership off a church is called by the name off church where can he euer shew that the eldership or as he termeth it the clergy of one onely church vvherof Greg. speaketh is called by the name off churches In steed therfore that he should haue translated both the richer and they off great authority in the church vvere cleane from that euill he hath translated the churches that is to say the clergy c taking the nominatiue plurall for the genitiue syngular Which although in the latin toung if one take not heed vnto the sense may deceiue yet vvhen the D. had the Greeke which hath off the church before him as it seemeth by cyting the greeke in the same place by and by after ether he vnderstood it not or willingly peruerted the meaning So I leaue to the reader whether I haue reasoned to the pourpose or no and whether yow besides wordes haue any thing at all As in certeine other places so in this in steed off that I should haue taken the quotacion which came after I taking the quotacion in my paper booke which went before was deceiued and for the 6. and 7. of Socrates set downe the 6. and 7. of Eusebius This verely is the error which the D. maketh so