Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	apostle_n	prophet_n	write_v	2,138	5	5.7555	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63393	The Quakers rounds, or, A Faithful account of a large discourse between a party of them called Quakers viz. William Fisher and Edward Burroughs, &c with Mr. Philip Taverner, Mr. Richard Goodgroom, and Mr. M. Hall, ministers of the Gospel ... / published by William Taverner, preacher of the Word.	W. F. (William Fisher); Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662.	1658 (1658)	Wing T248; ESTC R31011	28,134	41

holy Scripture was written chiefly though not onely for the sake and benefit of the Saints to the Worlds end for their learning in chief was the Scripture given Rom. 15.4 and therefore that giddy Assertion which is affirmed to have dropped from E. Burroughs mouth viz. That the Scriptures are given to the World not to the Saints hath no footing to bear up it self upon E. B. I grant the Epistles were given to the Saints P. T. It is well you grant it though I do not see how you should deny it and not onely the Epistles but all other the holy Scriptures as the Apostle cals them 2 Tim. 3.15 were given to the Saints No more was spoken to this for the night grew on and I think hardly any but were sufficiently wearied with a confused and unprofitable Discourse The company beginning to break up E. B. pretended a charge against R. G. concerning something which he had preached either a year or years agone in Bedfordshire but the people not caring to hear him any longer he forbore to speak farther as to that and turned his discourse to his own Proselytes How far E. B. owns the authority of the Scriptures of the New-Testament doth not clearly appear and whether he denies the Scriptures of the Old-Testament as being of no use to the Saints I am not able to say but if this should be in his or in the heart of any of his followers let that of the Apostle be consulted with if the Scriptures which himself in so many words owned to be given to the Saints may be for satisfaction Rom. 15.4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning c. Things written aforetime relate to the Scriptures of the Old-Testament to those things written in the Books of Moses the Prophets and the Psalms c. and of these the Apostle affirms they were written for our learning which relates not to the World but to the Saints for the Apostle puts himself in the number of those for whose sake in chief these things were written The Apostle indeed tels us 1 Cor. 24.22 wherefore Tongues are for a sign not to them that beleeve but to them that beleeve not but the same Apostle affirms the Scripture to be given chiefly for the sake of the Saints and such who do beleeve in the text formerly mentioned There were some of the Company jealous of these men lest they might be Jesuites but I speak freely my thoughts I do not beleeve any such thing concerning either of them W. F. though a man of subtilty enough to make him one of that Fraternity which he discovered abundantly more in a former meeting as I was informed from some there present then in this yet was known to some of the Company from whence he came and how he hath turned from one thing to another till he came at last to this Sect of Quakers And for E. B. I do not apprehend him to be a man of such parts and of that measure of subtilty which is ordinarily found among the men of that Brotherhood unless he had more than an ordinary art of hiding himself under a garbe of pretended simplicity so that for my part I do not judge or beleeve any such thing concerning either of them though I fear too many such Deceivers are crept in among us shrouding themselves under several Forms where they can find most shelter and of these more who are Jesuites in Principles than Jesuites in Orders I apply it not to these I hope better things of them The second thing which was concerning Justification I passed over in its proper place but shall now give a brief hint of it in the close of this relation It was very large with multiplicity of words on their part called Quakers but as confused and unprofitable a discourse as ever I heard The thing delivered for Doctrine by E. B. and objected against by R. G. was II. That no man is further Justified than he is Sanctified E. B. Thou hast mistaken my words as laid down by me R. G. These were the very words you expressed and no alteration E. B. I said that Sanctification was an evidence of Justification and that no man could any further know himself to be justified than as he was sanctified R. G. You spake nothing of an Evidence or of a mans knowing his Justification by his Sanctification but confounded both together throughout your Discourse and having first laid it down as your Assertion That no man is Justified further than he is Sanctified you had also not long after these words viz. no man is justified further than he is restored E. B. I say that whosoever is justified is restored from a state of ignorance and death into a state of light and life and sanctified in the whole man that he may live to God P. T. Justification and Sanctification are never separate as to the subject Justified but whom God justifies the same he sanctifies yet are these two distinguished in their nature E. B. I grant that these are never divided but he that is justified is sanctified and he who is sanctified is justified R. G. Though not divided or separate when we speak of the person justified but the same who is justified is also sanctified yet are they distinguished in their proper natures and we may not confound them together but let us know what you own the cause of Justification E. B. The Free-Grace of God R. G. That is the primary efficient but I querie concerning the Meritorious cause or whether we are justified by that righteousness which Christ wrought out for us in his own person or by the work of righteousness which he works in us by his Spirit E. B. Justification is onely by Jesus Christ Upon this an ancient man of the company whose name I knew not desired to hear from E. B. what he beleeved concerning Christ for I have saith he read somewhat in a Book of yours concerning what you believe but that not giving full satisfaction as to what and how far you own Christ the Mediator between God and Man I would willingly be further satisfied at this time from your own mouth and this happily might give some further light concerning what you own in this point E. B. I beleeve that Christ was born of a Virgin and that both in his birth and life he was without sin that he was crucified at Jerusalem and rose again from the dead c. He fully acknowledged the History of Christs life and death but concerning the end of Christs dying he spake little if any thing at all I do not remember that his long confession had any thing of that acknowledgement in it Who was delivered for our offences and raised again for our Justification Rom. 4.25 and yet probable he may own it I believe he doth R. G. This is nothing to the purpose you have not yet granted Christs Righteousness a cause of Justification E. B. I say that we are

in opposion to Justification by works according to the law Rom. 4.2.3 And this was before Abraham had ever a Child which will clearely appear if you consult the Scriptures So that Abraham was justified by faith before he went to offer up his son Isaac he was before that act of obedience a justified person therefore not justified hereby but onely declared to be a true beleever his faith was hereby clearely manifest and no more can be drawn from this of the Apostle James if we do seriously weigh ver 18 19 20. and compare what followes with these going before And here ended this confused dispute about Justification in which point it is feared by some that those called Quakers if all of the same mind with E. B. and. W. F. have a Pope in their belly if so I heartily wish the Lord would shew them their errour recover their feet out of the snare and deliver them from the delusion I have since this Dispute met with a Book called A Standard lift up for all People The Author this E. B. there are three passages which I took notice of in it relating to JUSTIFICATION I. PAge 3. Chap. 1. towards the end of the Chapter it is said God Justifieth the Righteous and condemneth the Wicked If by justifying be meant Gods owning approving and accepting the Righteous and that the same God doth not accept but disown the Wicked in their wickedness then is it a Truth of the same stamp with that Psal 5.4 5. But if by justifying be meant that of absolving and acquiting from guilt and condemnation which is that the Apostle so often cals Justification how will it agree with that in Rom. 4.5 But to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly c. II. Page 11. Chap. 8. It is the new man that is justified not the old If by justifying be meant as before Gods owning and accepting with delight so it is true God accepts owns and delights in nothing but the new Creature in us for what is after the will of the flesh or the old man in us is the object of his loathing and shall be destroyed But if by justifying be meant in the second sence an acquitting and absolving the sinner from guilt and condemnation then how can the new man which never sinned be said to be justified vix from sin or to be acquitted from guilt and condemnation which it was never under III. Page 11. Chap. 8. lin 3. And such as are taught by Christ and guided by him in all the wayes of Truth and Righteousness are justified by him and none else not in any word or work whatsoever but in what they are led to fulfil by him What strange contradiction in the two last clauses as if what they are led to fulfil by him were not a work And here again If by being justified in what they are led to fulfil by Christ be only meant a being accepted and owned of God in the thing done It is granted that God accepts of nothing from us but what is the work of his own Spirit and Grace in us but if by being justified in what they are led to fulfil by him be meant that Justification which himself cals lin 11. of this Chapter A being cleared from condemnation in the sight of God What could the Pope himself have spoken more plain for effecting Justification by inherent Righteousness or the work of the Law wrought in us For what can that clause in what they are led to fulfil by him relate to but a conformity to the righteous holy and good Law of God And if this be our Justification to what purpose was the death of Christ For a perfect conformity to the Law of God in our own persons though not wrought in our own strength but in the strength and power of Grace the Spirit working all in us and for us is no other than the Righteousness of the Law And as to this Point ye cannot be ignorant of what the Apostle saith If Righteousness be by the Law then Christ dyed in vain Gal. 2.21 Several other Passages I have taken notice of in in this Book some contradictory others dark and doubtful as to what is the Authors aim in them PAge 4. Chap. 2. And this Christ Jesus the Son of God is the light and life of the World and hath enlightned all mankind every one that cometh into the world is lighted by him with the true light of life or condemnation And page 22. Christ Jesus the second Adam lighteth every man and all mankind that cometh into the World with the true light How do these agree with that Page 25. Chap. 19. Mans state in the first Adam in transgression is a state of perfect enmity against God and Death reigns in every man and he is possessed with blindness ignorance and unbelief c I say how do these agree unless there be granted a general restauration of all men which yet you seem to deny in Page 10. Chap. 6. where you acknowledge some to be in a state unreconciled to God and having no part nor portion in these things which belong to their peace Page 10. lin 1. Many profess them in words what others enjoy of these things but have not felt in themselves the working of the eternal Spirit neither have the witness in themselves of being restored again From this latter clause a twofold question ariseth for your words speak not forth your meaning clearly 1. Whether none are restored again but those that have the witness in themselves Or secondly Whether all are restored but some want the witness of this in themselves which you mean is doubtful Page 10. Chap. 7. in the three last lines This Religion and Worship stands in Christ Jesus the second Adam who hath lighted every man that comes into the World that all men through him might believe c. Hence this question ariseth Whether that light which is in all and every particular man is sufficient without any thing farther of speciall grace superadded to bring up every man to beleeve in Christ unto salvation or to beleeve in God by meanes of Christ 1 Pet. 1.20 Pag. 5. Chap. 3. This is the testimony of the Spirit of God and it leadeth into all truth and out of all evill all that are guided by it and it is given to be the guide and rule of life to the Children of God Whence this question for in these things he speakes darkely and doubtfully Whether the Spirit is so given to be the guide and rule of life to the Saints that they have no more need to attend upon the Scriptures Chap. 19. After many other things it follows pag. 28. towards the end And the light of Christ in every one shall give testimony to it unto which I do onely commend my self and these truths to be witnessed Can these be wittnesses to you and of the truth in you who are as you say Pag. 6. Chap. 4. ignorant of the life power and wisedome of the Creatour to leade guide and preserve them following the counsell of their own heart which is evill altogether c. or can such judge between light and darkness between truth and falsehood who are possessed with blindness igorance and unbeleife and wholly imperfect to receive the things of Gods kingdom or to act any thing for God acceptable to him pag. 25. Chap. 19. Pag. 17. Chap. 13. It is truely said That the word of God was in the heart and mouth of the servant of God and that from it they spake forth the Scriptures and then followes As they were moved by the holy ghost through the eternal Spirit Do you make the Holy Ghost and eternall Spirit two or what do you mean by Holy Ghost it is indeed a usuall word among us though there be little to bear up the use of it more then long custome but by Holy Ghost we mean the holy and eternall Spirit what you mean wants an interpreter to find out and make known who seeme to make them two because you say by the holy Ghost through the eternall Spirit Pag. 10. Chap. 7. This is true religion c. where is given forth the same description of true Religion for substance with that of the Apostle James 1.26.27 and towards the end of the page it is said This is acceptable and well pleasing to God above all words and outward conformity and set times and dayes and observances c. This is subscribed to as honest and true and yet may a snake lie in this grasse The question therefore offers it self viz. Whether a doing the greater things of the law is acceptable where the lesse are neglected when it is said I will have mery not sacrifice or mercy rather then sacrifice which is the meaning God did not so require mercy as wholly to take off from Sacrifice onely hereby is declared that God prefers that before this which is true unto this day God requires to speake the truth and do the truth in all things to do unto all men as a man would be done unto to love God with all our heart and our neghbour as our selves c. But hence will not follow an abolition of all institute Worship consisting in the use of such Ordinances which Christ hath appointed and which were in use among the Saints in the primitive times God indeed prefers the former before this but stil requires us to mind according to that of Christ These things ye ought to have done and not to leave the other undone FINIS