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A17864 An examination of those plausible appearances which seeme most to commend the Romish Church, and to preiudice the reformed Discovering them to be but meere shifts, purposely invented, to hinder an exact triall of doctrine by the Scriptures. By Mr Iohn Cameron. Englished out of French.; Traicté auquel sont examinez les prejugez de ceux de l'église romaine contre la religion reformée. English Cameron, John, 1579?-1625.; Pinke, William, 1599?-1629. 1626 (1626) STC 4531; ESTC S107409 97,307 179

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sufficiently looked after fearing to find it desirous not to find it Wee may then iustly suffer this taunt that wee fainted in our vndertakings that wee were tired in our iourney When they goe about to calculate antiquity now a daies they beginne not with that which is first the first epoche is where were you within these hundred yeares so in steede of going fo●ward they stop at a short period and retire homeward In the meane time this path were not to be neglected nor this method to be refused if they would not stop in their search vntill they came to the age of the Apostles for beateing this way so farre how many nouelties would their be met with betweene this and that of fresher date and which might be questioned where were you before which are not then of that ancient originall nor graced with the priuiledges of true antiquity which yet are antiquities in respect of vs and our times but meere nouel●ies in respect of the age of the Apostles That which was in the age of the Apostles is truely ancient and nothing ancient but that they are the fathers whose bounds wee must not remoue wee must inquire after the waies of these fathers as for those degenerate ancestors which came afterwards wee haue an expresse prohibi●ion Walke not according to the statutes of your fathers and regard not their-ordināces I am Iehouah your God walke in my statutes keepe my commandements and doe them Antiquity then is not to be accounted of but as shee is a witnesse of truth according to Tertullian that which was first taught saith hee is of the Lord and true That which is absolutely first then is to bee sought out and from it the calculation is to begun St. Cyprian giueth vs a direction for this calculation although he otherwise applyeth it which is as pertinent as it is familiar instructing vs that euen as a conduit of water which formerly ranne copiously and continually coming to faile vpon a suddaine wee haue recourse to the spring-head to know the cause of this defect whether it bee that the drying of the fountaine depriueth the running water both of an originall nourishment or whether the foūtaine being entire the water faileth in its course the pipe being either brokē or stopt that it being mēded the water may bee restored to the vse of the citty in the same plenty purity it proceedeth from the fountaine so saith he the Priestes of God ought to repaire to the originall and the tradition of the Gospell and Apostles in keeping his commandements to the end that the reason of our actions may be deduced from the same beginning whence that deriueth its authority That wee may not doubt what is the tradition of which he speaketh let vs he●re what he saith a little before to the same purpose One alleadged to him tradition whence is this tradition replyeth he is it from the Lord from the authority of the Euangelists or Apostles For that those things which are written in the booke of the law are to bee obserued God himselfe testifieth telling Iosuah that the booke of the Law the scripture should not depart out of his mouth If then it bee either commanded in the Gospell or contained in the Apostolicall writings that they which come out of any heresie be it what it will should not be baptised let this holy and diuine tradition be obserued St. Cyprian reiecteth not the baptisme of heretickes but only because he bel●eueth not that it was a holy and diuine tradition that it should bee admitted he is ready to receiue it if it bee proued vnto him to bee such a one giuing vs the rule to proue it by the apostolicall wri●ings He cal●eth then a diuine and holy tradition all that which may bee iustified by them as for other tradi●ions he putteth t●em aside with this sl●ghting interrogato●y whence is this tradition Now therefore such traditions as these we are ready to accept prouided that the Papists after the same method manifest their origin all vnto vs. When w●e demand whence is this tradition when beganne it let them answere vs it is drawne from the writings it hath beene from the time of the Apostles CHAP XVII That the only meanes to pr●ue true antiquity is to haue recourse to the begining by the scripture NOw that wee alledge St. Cyprian it is not to authorise the truth by the authority of men only wee borrow their words and fancies to expresse it Wee wish that it may be considered not who speakes but what is spoken But if better authority here be called for we wil alledge supreme authoritie that of the Lord prescribing vs the rule It was not so from the beginning Wisely then and fitly said Tertullian th●t which is the first is the truer and that which is from the beginning is first and that which is of the Apostles is from the beginning To which wee adde only that which followeth of it selfe that which is in the scripture in the writings of the Apostles is of the Apostles So then in respect of this antiquity doe wee not submit our selues to reason when wee yeeld that our doctrine should be reiected if it be not of the Apostles Are not our proofes authētique to cōfirme ●he antiquity of our religion when they are gathered out of their writings the writings of the Prophe●s Euāgelists The course which is taken to proue the antiquity so much talked of in the Church of Rome is a recourse to Fathers and Councells The more ant●ent these Fathers and Councels are proue t●ey not this antiquity the more euidently But what fa●hers what Councells a●e more ancient then the scripture what antiquity then is ancienter then the scriptures what title more ancient then that which is of the same date with the scriptures certainely it is an excesse of open blasphemy to equalize either fathers or councells to Scripture and yet this is done But though this be done yet it will not be said that the Scripture is of a fresher originall then the fathers and Councels Impudency hath not yet ventured so farre He then of whose side is the doctrine of the scripture hath gaine● the prerogatiue of antiquity and by consequent of truth So then this question about anti●uity is brought to this issue what wee are to examine which is the doctrine most consonant to Scripture this being cleared the controversie of antiquity need to trouble vs no longer It is impossible othe●wise to decide it for let them alleage fathers and Councells as long as they will this scruple still remaineth to knowe if the Apostles haue so ordained Vniversall consent cannot be called to witnesse in this case for to shew that it would ●e requisite to aske all persons of all ages vntill the Apostles If the name of vniversall consent be attributed to that which is beleeued by the greater part to the most received opinion yet how shall we knowe and iudge of this kinde of
amongst them doe preach it is not as they are Monkes That license was anciently granted them in the forme of a dispensation In St Hieromes time the office of Monks was not to preach but to weepe To imploy ones selfe in preaching is to bid the Monkish life farewell to renounce it in this respect And if every Monke should imploy his gift and talent as doe the small number of those amongst them which preach the Monasteries would remaine emptie and these Monks would be no longer Monks but secular men conversing in the world and busying themselues for the common good of it every one according to his abilitie every man in his ranke station one in pleading the cause of the Orphane another in applying convenient remedies for the prevention or expulsion of diseases another in distributing almes out of his abundance one in the exercise of one calling another in another But the Monkes by their vowes quite disenable themselues for the performance of these offices Some ancient lawes punished certaine cowards which that they might not be pressed for the warre got their thumbs cut off not only for hauing vsed an inhumane cruelty towards them selues but also for hauing cosened the Common-wealth of its due They then make themselues culpable after the same manner who wittingly depriue thēselues of those meanes by which they might giue a helping hand for the reliefe of the common necessities of mans life We are not placed in this life neither abide we in this world for our selues only but for others also every man for his neighbour It is the law of nature it 's the law of God it 's the precept of the Gospell that we should doe good to all and especially to those of the houshold of faith He then who purposely maketh himselfe vnprofitable willingly violateth this law shewing himselfe vnnaturall rebellious against God full of selfe-loue seeking that which is his owne and not the Lord Iesus any farther then the lips and outward profession But which is yet more intolerable they make themselues not only vnprofitable but also burdensome they liue vpon other mens labours they depriue those who are poore indeed of their reliefe intercepting that which might and ought to be giuen them They think it a more blessed thing to receiue then to giue quite contrary to the iudgement of our Saviour They labour not and yet they thinke themselues worthie to liue and be maintained notwithstanding the speech of the Apostle he which worketh not let him not eat They say that their prayers are their taskes their oraisons their businesse But St Austin in his booke de opere Monach where he hath taken vpon him to proue that every Monke which liues vpon almes and gifts is guiltie of theft hath amply refuted these flim-flamms shewing that the spirituall service of God doth not hinder vs from but incourage vs to labour The Grecians account him not a true Monke who is chargeable to others The Abyssin Monkes follow the same law And indeed though the Monkish profession be ancient enough in the Church yet the idlenesse of Monks and their begging is but new In St Austens time some beganne in fauour of them to alleage the example of the birds of the fields of whom the Lord saith that they neither sow nor reap But that good father answereth them as they deserued telling them that hee was of opinion that they might goe as the birds doe to feed themselues in the fields without bringing any thing home with them and that it would bee good if they had wings that they might be affrighted away like stares birds not be apprehended as theeues Concerning the second point the Monkish life doth not quench but nourish doth not cast water but oyle vpon the fire of concupiscence An honest liberty of marrying when one will if a man be not altogether gracelesse easily spends and exhales this passion and suffereth it not to breake out into flames whereas the constraint by vow taketh away all hopes of vent and shutteth it vp within vs. There is no man lesse troubled with hunger then he who hopes that he may eat whē he pleaseth he who despaireth of it betaketh himselfe to his owne flesh and as the Prophet speaketh eateth even his owne arme Now this is not spoken with a purpose to discouer the secrets of the Couent but only to giue a secret glaunce at that which all the world knoweth of it But what Can their fastings and scourgings afford them no remedy Yes if they would in due proportion fast continually if they would fast simply and absolutely otherwise for him which hath not the gift of continence to fast by starts and lash himselfe by fits this is but to stirre his disease insteed of remouing it and to anger his sore insteed of healing it There are diseases which are nourished by gentle lenitiue remedies The anodins such medicines as cast the sicke into a sleep take away the paine for a time but they either kill the persō out right or else the paine returneth with the greater violence as if it had gone backward for a time that it might come forward with a doubled furie Witnesse St Hierome himselfe my countenance saith he was wan by reason of my fasting and my flesh was dead before my selfe and yet my spirit boyled within me with the heat of my desires Did so holy and devout a man out of I knowe not what humilitie publikely divulge so base and scandalous a lye of himselfe No no. He spake the truth and thereby how highly soever he hath extolled virginitie vnwittingly confesseth that for concupiscence which is not moderated by the gift and particular grace of continence there remaineth only that remedy set downe by the Apostle that for avoiding fornication every man should haue his owne wife and every woman her owne husband True virginitie is r●dically in the soule if it bee not ●●ere principally it cannot be in the body and if it be there it will transfuse it selfe thence into the body whether it be in wedlocke or in a single life Imagine we that St Peter married as the most ancient testifie of him was lesse acceptable to God then St Paul vnmarried God measureth not men but by piety where he findeth that equall he is equally pleased with it be it in married or vnmarried persons What then shall the single life haue no prerogatiue Yes questionlesse if it conduce more to pietie then marriage but if it faile in this point it 's much inferiour to marriage Now it alwaies fayleth of that in them who haue not the gift of it There are some saith our Saviour which make themselues Eunuches for the kingdome of heaven but all men cannot receiue this saying saue they to whom it is given Which is clearely expounded vnto vs by St Paul telling vs that he could wish indeed that all had the gift of continence as well as he but that every man hath his proper