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book_n apostle_n doctrine_n scripture_n 1,634 5 5.5775 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61627 Several conferences between a Romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the Church of England concerning the idolatry of the Church of Rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of T.G. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1679 (1679) Wing S5667; ESTC R18131 239,123 580

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and_o do_v you_o think_v dr._n st._n either_o irenical_o or_o polemical_o do_v ever_o yield_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o oppose_v these_o if_o t._n g._n lay_v so_o much_o weight_n on_o such_o slight_a thing_n as_o these_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o he_o be_v not_o the_o man_n i_o take_v he_o for_o and_o i_o believe_v it_o be_v only_a civility_n in_o dr._n st._n to_o pass_v such_o thing_n by_o r.p._n but_o t.g._n will_v know_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o express_o forbid_v 121._o only_o that_o it_o be_v clear_a to_o himself_o expect_v that_o other_o shall_v submit_v to_o his_o say_n it_o
of_o patience_n p._n d._n not_o i_o assure_v you_o when_o i_o meet_v with_o any_o thing_n that_o deserve_v it_o r._n p._n here_o come_v our_o fanatic_a friend_n to_o refresh_v you_o a_o little_a what_o be_v the_o matter_n man_n why_o so_o sad_a have_v you_o meet_v with_o a_o ill_a bargain_n at_o the_o auction_n f._n c._n no_o no._n i_o get_v a_o book_n last_o night_n have_v take_v i_o up_o till_o this_o time_n and_o true_o i_o have_v read_v something_o in_o it_o which_o fit_v much_o upon_o my_o spirit_n r._n p._n what_o be_v it_o if_o we_o may_v ask_v you_o f._n c._n it_o be_v no_o comfort_n either_o to_o you_o or_o i_o r._n p._n if_o i_o be_v concern_v i_o pray_v let_v i_o know_v f._n c._n you_o know_v last_o night_n we_o hear_v they_o at_o rutherford_n and_o gillespee_n i_o come_v in_o time_n enough_o for_o gillespee_n miscellany_n question_n a_o rare_a book_n i_o promise_v you_o and_o by_o a_o particular_a favour_n i_o carry_v it_o home_o with_o i_o and_o look_v upon_o the_o content_n i_o find_v the_o seasonable_a case_n viz._n about_o association_n and_o confederacy_n with_o idolater_n infidel_n or_o heretic_n and_o he_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v so_o absolute_o unlawful_a from_o scripture_n and_o many_o sound_a orthodox_n divine_n that_o for_o my_o part_n he_o have_v full_o convince_v and_o settle_v i_o and_o i_o think_v it_o my_o duty_n to_o come_v and_o to_o tell_v you_o so_o r._n p._n well_o we_o will_v let_v alone_o that_o discourse_n at_o present_a we_o be_v at_o our_o old_a trade_n again_o and_o i_o be_v just_a come_n to_o a_o seasonable_a question_n for_o you_o viz._n whether_o you_o have_v not_o as_o much_o reason_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n f._n c._n who_o doubt_v of_o that_o p._n d._n i_o do_v sir_n nay_o more_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o f._n c._n what_o matter_n be_v it_o what_o you_o say_v or_o deny_v you_o will_v do_v either_o for_o a_o good_a preferment_n have_v not_o you_o assent_v and_o consent_v to_o all_o that_o be_v in_o the_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n and_o what_o will_v you_o stick_v at_o after_o p._n d._n consider_v sir_n what_o it_o be_v to_o judge_v rash_a judgement_n i_o wonder_v man_n that_o pretend_v to_o conscience_n and_o seem_v so_o nice_a and_o scrupulous_a in_o some_o thing_n can_v allow_v thmselves_fw-mi in_o the_o practice_n of_o so_o dangerous_a a_o sin_n if_o you_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o debate_v this_o point_n before_o we_o without_o clamour_n and_o impertinency_n i_o be_o for_o you_o f._n c._n you_o will_v fain_o draw_v i_o in_o to_o dispute_v again_o will_v you_o no_o such_o matter_n there_o be_v your_o man_n he_o will_v manage_v our_o cause_n for_o we_o against_o you_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o warrant_v you_o r._n p._n i_o be_o provide_v for_o it_o for_o t._n g._n desire_n of_o dr._n st._n for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o anabaptist_n 78._o and_o other_o separate_a congregation_n to_o know_v why_o the_o believe_a all_o the_o ancient_a creed_n and_o lead_v a_o good_a life_n may_v not_o be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n unless_o one_o be_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n a_o very_a doughty_a question_n as_o though_o we_o be_v like_o you_o and_o immediate_o damn_v all_o person_n who_o be_v not_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o our_o church_n we_o say_v their_o separation_n from_o we_o be_v very_o unjust_a and_o unreasonable_a and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o colour_n for_o make_v their_o case_n equal_a with_o we_o as_o to_o the_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n r._n p._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o of_o a_o man_n who_o make_v the_o case_n parallel_n it_o be_v one_o dr._n st._n in_o his_o irenicum_fw-la and_o t._n g._n produce_v many_o page_n out_o of_o he_o to_o that_o purpose_n 79._o p._n d._n to_o save_v you_o the_o trouble_n of_o repeat_v they_o i_o have_v read_v they_o over_o and_o do_v think_v these_o answer_n may_v serve_v for_o his_o vindication_n 1._o that_o in_o that_o very_a place_n he_o make_v separation_n from_o a_o church_n retain_v purity_n of_o doctrine_n on_o the_o account_n of_o some_o corrupt_a practice_n to_o be_v unlawful_a and_o afterward_o in_o case_n man_n be_v unsatisfied_a as_o to_o some_o condition_n of_o communion_n 123._o he_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o erect_v new_a church_n because_o a_o mere_a require_v conformity_n in_o some_o suspect_a rite_n do_v not_o make_v a_o church_n otherwise_o sound_a to_o be_v no_o true_a church_n or_o such_o a_o church_n from_o which_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o make_v a_o total_a separation_n which_o be_v then_o do_v when_o man_n enter_v into_o a_o new_a and_o distinct_a society_n for_o worship_n under_o distinct_a and_o peculiar_a officer_n govern_v by_o law_n and_o church_n rule_v different_a from_o those_o of_o the_o church_n they_o separate_v from_o and_o now_o let_v your_o fanatic_a friend_n judge_n whether_o this_o man_n even_o in_o the_o day_n of_o write_v his_o irenicum_fw-la do_v justify_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o separate_a congregation_n which_o he_o speak_v express_o against_o f._n c._n no_o true_o we_o be_v all_o now_o for_o separate_a congregation_n and_o know_v better_a what_o we_o have_v to_o do_v than_o our_o forefather_n do_v alas_o what_o comfort_n be_v there_o in_o bare_a nonconformity_n for_o our_o people_n will_v not_o endure_v we_o if_o we_o do_v not_o proceed_v to_o separation_n he_o that_o speak_v against_o separation_n ruin_v we_o and_o our_o cause_n p._n d._n so_o far_o then_o we_o have_v clear_v dr._n st._n from_o patronise_a the_o cause_n of_o the_o separate_a congregation_n 2._o he_o say_v that_o as_o to_o thing_n leave_v undetermined_a by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o primitive_a and_o reform_a church_n 124._o and_o in_o matter_n of_o order_n decency_n and_o government_n every_o one_o notwithstanding_o what_o his_o private_a judgement_n may_v be_v of_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o lawful_a governor_n of_o the_o church_n can_v any_o thing_n be_v say_v plain_a for_o conformity_n than_o this_o be_v by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o irenicum_fw-la r._n p._n but_o how_o then_o come_v in_o those_o word_n produce_v by_o t._n g._n p._n d._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o he_o suppose_v that_o some_o scrupulous_a and_o conscientious_a man_n after_o all_o endeavour_n use_v to_o satisfy_v themselves_o may_v remain_v unsatisfied_a as_o to_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o some_o impose_v rite_n but_o dare_v not_o proceed_v to_o positive_a separation_n from_o the_o church_n but_o be_v willing_a to_o comply_v in_o all_o other_o thing_n save_v in_o those_o rite_n which_o they_o still_o scruple_n and_o concern_v these_o he_o put_v the_o question_n whether_o such_o bare-nonconformity_a do_v involve_v such_o man_n in_o the_o guilt_n of_o schism_n and_o this_o i_o confess_v he_o resolve_v negative_o and_o so_o bring_v in_o that_o long_a passage_n t._n g._n produce_v out_o of_o he_o i_o now_o appeal_v to_o yourself_o whether_o t._n g._n have_v deal_v fair_o with_o dr._n st._n in_o two_o thing_n 1._o in_o not_o distinguish_v the_o case_n of_o separation_n from_o that_o of_o bare_a nonconformity_n only_o in_o some_o suspect_a rite_n and_o in_o produce_v these_o word_n to_o justify_v the_o separate_a congregation_n 2._o in_o take_v his_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n rather_o from_o his_o irenicum_fw-la write_v so_o long_o since_o than_o from_o his_o late_a write_n wherein_o he_o have_v purposely_o consider_v the_o difference_n of_o the_o case_n of_o those_o who_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n r._n p._n but_o have_v he_o do_v this_o indeed_o and_o do_v t._n g._n know_v it_o p._n d._n yes_o very_o well_o 1●6_n for_o it_o be_v in_o that_o very_a book_n the_o preface_n whereof_o t._n g._n pretend_v to_o answer_v in_o these_o dialogue_n and_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o it_o by_o the_o by_o but_o discourse_v large_o about_o it_o be_v this_o fair_a deal_n but_o the_o irenicum_fw-la serve_v better_a for_o his_o purpose_n as_o he_o think_v and_o yet_o he_o have_v foul_o misrepresent_v that_o too_o r._n p._n but_o yet_o dr._n st._n must_v not_o think_v to_o escape_v so_o for_o he_o have_v search_v another_o book_n of_o he_o call_v his_o rational_a account_n and_o there_o he_o find_v a_o passage_n he_o think_v in_o favour_n to_o dissenter_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 87._o and_o which_o undermine_v the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n r._n p._n have_v a_o little_a patience_n
person_n of_o the_o father_n and_o holy_a ghost_n be_v too_o r._n p._n you_o may_v account_v this_o a_o absurdity_n but_o we_o account_v it_o none_o at_o all_o yea_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n have_v say_v if_o the_o holy_a trinity_n be_v not_o every_o where_o yet_o it_o will_v be_v in_o the_o eucharist_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o concomitancy_n p._n d._n i_o do_v not_o now_o meddle_v with_o your_o opinion_n i_o only_o consider_v the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la and_o his_o brethren_n who_o do_v look_v on_o these_o as_o absurdity_n and_o yet_o be_v so_o foolish_a to_o say_v that_o our_o worship_a god_n towards_o the_o altar_n be_v more_o absurd_a than_o your_o worship_a christ_n on_o the_o altar_n on_o supposition_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o why_o worse_o than_o egyptian_a idolatry_n i_o beseech_v you_o r._n p._n the_o egyptian_n say_v he_o pretend_v some_o colour_n for_o their_o idolatry_n as_o than_o a_o ape_n or_o a_o cat_n or_o a_o wolf_n 184._o etc._n etc._n have_v some_o participation_n of_o the_o divinity_n but_o those_o that_o bow_v down_o to_o a_o wooden_a table_n be_v themselves_o stock_n with_o much_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n p._n d._n be_v such_o a_o man_n to_o be_v endure_v in_o a_o christian_a commonwealth_n not_o to_o say_v a_o church_n for_o excommunication_n he_o regard_v not_o who_o parallel_v the_o adoration_n give_v only_o to_o the_o divine_a majesty_n as_o our_o church_n profess_v with_o the_o worship_n of_o a_o ape_n or_o a_o cat_n or_o a_o wolf_n &_o c_o nay_o he_o make_v the_o egyptian_a idolatry_n more_o reasonable_a than_o our_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o only_a thing_n that_o can_v excuse_v he_o be_v rage_n and_o madness_n and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v he_o to_o his_o keeper_n but_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o be_v it_o mere_a kindness_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o make_v t._n g._n to_o produce_v all_o these_o passage_n at_o full_a length_n out_o of_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la or_o out_o of_o pure_a spite_n to_o dr._n st._n by_o so_o often_o repeat_v the_o passage_n of_o his_o being_n delinitus_fw-la &_o occaecatus_fw-la and_o why_o in_o such_o a_o place_n where_o he_o pretend_v only_o to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o dr._n st.'s_n vain_a and_o endless_a discourse_n do_v he_o bring_v in_o this_o at_o large_a be_v it_o only_o for_o his_o comfort_n to_o let_v he_o see_v there_o be_v one_o body_n at_o least_o in_o the_o world_n more_o foolish_a and_o impertinent_a than_o he_o we_o have_v see_v enough_o of_o what_o t._n g._n ought_v not_o to_o have_v do_v let_v we_o now_o see_v what_o he_o say_v dr._n st._n ought_v to_o have_v do_v r._n p._n the_o first_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v in_o a_o dispute_n 193._o be_v to_o settle_v the_o state_n of_o the_o controversy_n upon_o its_o true_a ground_n by_o lay_v down_o the_o true_a notion_n of_o the_o matter_n in_o debate_n therefore_o dr._n st._n aught_o in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o have_v give_v we_o the_o true_a notion_n of_o idolatry_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o then_o to_o have_v show_v that_o notion_n to_o have_v agree_v to_o the_o honour_n and_o veneration_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o council_n declare_v may_v be_v give_v to_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o saint_n but_o he_o choose_v rather_o to_o dazzle_v the_o eye_n of_o the_o reader_n with_o the_o false_a light_n of_o mere_a external_a act_n the_o obscure_a practice_n even_o of_o wise_a heathen_n and_o the_o clash_n of_o school-divines_a p._n d._n now_o i_o hope_v we_o be_v come_v to_o something_o worthy_a of_o consideration_n i_o like_v the_o method_n of_o proceed_v very_o well_o and_o i_o like_v dr._n st.'s_n book_n the_o better_a because_o i_o think_v he_o pursue_v the_o right_a method_n begin_v first_o with_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n and_o divine_a worship_n and_o then_o come_v to_o the_o first_o particular_a of_o image-worship_n which_o he_o have_v handle_v with_o great_a care_n and_o exactness_n in_o respect_n of_o your_o council_n as_o well_o as_o your_o practice_n and_o school-divines_a r._n p._n it_o be_v true_a he_o propose_v well_o at_o first_o etc._n but_o like_o a_o preacher_n that_o have_v patch_v up_o a_o sermon_n out_o of_o his_o notebook_n he_o name_v his_o text_n and_o then_o take_v his_o leave_n of_o it_o for_o what_o he_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o be_v idolatry_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n independent_o of_o any_o positive_a law_n whereas_o he_o speak_v only_o of_o a_o idolatry_n forbid_v by_o a_o positive_a law_n but_o if_o there_o be_v no_o idolatry_n antecedent_n to_o a_o positive_a prohibition_n the_o heathen_n can_v not_o be_v just_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n p._n d._n in_o my_o mind_n he_o do_v not_o recede_v from_o his_o text_n at_o all_o but_o pursue_v it_o close_o but_o you_o be_v uneasy_a at_o his_o application_n and_o therefore_o find_v fault_n with_o his_o handle_n his_o text._n what_o can_v a_o man_n speak_v to_o more_o pertinent_o as_o to_o idolatry_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n than_o to_o consider_v what_o that_o be_v which_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v idolatry_n both_o in_o the_o heathen_n and_o arrian_n what_o that_o be_v which_o the_o primitive_a church_n account_v idolatry_n in_o they_o what_o opinon_n those_o have_v of_o god_n who_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v charge_n with_o idolatry_n wherein_o the_o nature_n of_o divine_a worship_n consist_v not_o only_o with_o respect_n to_o positive_a command_n but_o the_o general_a consent_n of_o mankind_n do_v 210._o he_o not_o express_o argue_v from_o the_o reason_n and_o design_n of_o solemn_a religious_a worship_n abstract_o from_o positive_a law_n do_v he_o not_o show_v 215._o from_o many_o testimony_n that_o the_o heathen_n do_v look_v on_o some_o peculiar_a rite_n of_o divine_a worship_n as_o sacred_a and_o inviolable_a that_o they_o choose_v rather_o to_o die_v than_o to_o give_v they_o any_o but_o a_o divine_a object_n it_o be_v true_a after_o this_o he_o inquire_v into_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o what_o act_n of_o worship_n he_o have_v appropriate_v to_o himself_o and_o be_v there_o not_o great_a reason_n to_o do_v so_o be_v we_o unconcern_v in_o the_o law_n god_n make_v for_o his_o worship_n in_o my_o apprehension_n this_o be_v the_o great_a thing_n t._n g._n have_v to_o do_v to_o prove_v that_o god_n law_n about_o worship_n be_v bare_o ceremonial_a and_o only_o respect_v the_o jew_n but_o that_o we_o be_v leave_v to_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n about_o religious_a worship_n but_o he_o neither_o do_v this_o nor_o if_o he_o have_v do_v it_o have_v he_o overthrow_v dr_n st.'s_n book_n for_o he_o prove_v in_o several_a place_n that_o the_o heathen_n have_v the_o same_o distinction_n of_o sovereign_a and_o inferior_a worship_n absolute_a and_o relative_a which_o be_v use_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o if_o these_o do_v excuse_v now_o they_o will_v have_v excuse_v they_o who_o by_o scripture_n and_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n be_v condemn_v for_o idolatry_n and_o judge_v you_o now_o whether_o dr._n st._n take_v leave_v of_o his_o text_n whether_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v to_o idolatry_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n r._n p._n but_o he_o say_v etc._n the_o heathen_n can_v not_o understand_v the_o nature_n and_o sinfulness_n of_o idolatry_n if_o not_o from_o some_o law_n of_o god_n which_o be_v in_o effect_n to_o clear_v the_o heathen_n from_o idolatry_n till_o that_o law_n be_v deliver_v to_o they_o whereas_o s._n paul_n say_v they_o have_v a_o law_n write_v in_o their_o heart_n whereby_o they_o may_v understand_v it_o and_o dr._n st._n ought_v to_o have_v show_v wherein_o the_o deordination_n and_o sinfulness_n of_o idolatry_n do_v consist_v antecedent_o to_o any_o positive_a prohibition_n and_o till_o this_o be_v do_v he_o can_v make_v no_o parallel_n between_o the_o heathen_a idolatry_n and_o that_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n p._n d._n i_o be_o glad_a to_o find_v any_o thing_n that_o look_v like_o a_o difficulty_n which_o may_v give_v a_o occasion_n of_o far_a thought_n about_o this_o weighty_a matter_n and_o of_o clear_v the_o doctor_n mind_n concern_v it_o herein_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o explain_v these_o two_o thing_n 1._o how_o far_o dr._n st._n do_v make_v the_o nature_n and_o sinfulness_n of_o idolatry_n to_o depend_v on_o the_o law_n of_o god_n 2._o wherein_o the_o sinfulness_n of_o idolatry_n do_v consist_v abstract_o from_o a_o positive_a law_n 1._o how_o far_o he_o make_v the_o sinfulness_n of_o it_o to_o depend_v on_o a_o positive_a law_n 1._o he_o suppose_v natural_a religion_n to_o dictate_v these_o thing_n 197._o 1._o that_o god_n ought_v to_o be_v solemn_o worship_v 2._o that_o this_o worship_n ought_v to_o be_v