Dr DVRIE'S DEFENCE OF THE PRESENT MINISTRY Being compared with the Gospel and Gospel Ministry turnes into smoke and vanisheth As is made to appear in the ensuing Treatise By a Witnesse of the Gospel JOHN BRAINE Gal. 2.14 When I saw they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel I said to Peter before them all c. Printed in the Year 1649. To the Honourable the Committee of the County of South-Hampton The Learned Assembly at Westminster and the Godly and wel-affected of the County aforesaid TO you first of the Assembly I commend these things because you are they to whom the Supreme Authority of the Nation hath committed the care and judgement of these and the like differences that you may judge between us and make publike if you please your dissent from what is not of Gospel proof on either part To you the Honourable Committee aforesaid I humbly present these also that you hereby may see that by this or by the other cries of men of diffeâ—â— judgements Is â—â—â—â—â—e 〈◊〉 â—o be spoyled or wounded by you spoyled of that by your word and hand-writing you have for my Ministeriall labours promised me it being the life of me and my great family or wounded in my name who have lived though in weaknesse according to the testimonies of Christ and give me leave to mind you that of God That the labourer is worthy of his hire To you my faithfull and beloved friends of the Soake the City of Winton and County aforesaid I leave this as my loving remembrance to you advising you to beware of the secret practises of men against the Gospel as of works of darknesse and deep dishonesty in them that do them from whome and from which things keep your selves And 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor Durie I challenge a breach of promise who near twelve moneths since by letter promised me your notes on my booke and you contrary thereunto send my book and your bitter notes on it to my adversaries what hand you had in the private communicating of them I know not but leave to God Sir in obedience to Christ onely I have forborne to returne you railing for railing nor would I have you for this thinke I have forgot any good I have received from you but acknowledge the least thaâ—â—ulnâ—sse Sir I have not wronged you a word as I know in trâ—â—scribing your noâ—es they shall be compared with the Originall at your command bâ— any indifferent man Sir all that I have done herein is for the Gospel my dearesâ— friend for whome I desire to forsake all and althings and yet rest Gladly yours to serve you and al the forementioned according to the Gospel service of God John Braine To the Reader Reader THese Notes of Dr Duries I found written on the margent of a Booke properly mine owne being Intituled The smoke of the Temple cleared by the light of the Scripture lying one Shop-keepers Table where I live which I taking away with me was after sent for to make appearance before two Justices of the County aforesaid who were desired to grant a Warrant to apprehend me Fellon-like therefore but honestly refused it who after on my appearance because I would not surrender the said book chosing rather to obey the Law passively in that point then actively I was and now stand ingaged to make appearance at the next Quarter-Sessions to make Answer before the Bench for thus illegally seizing on my owne proper goods being a book sent Mr Doctor upon his sending to one Mr Ellis for him to call on me to send him one of my Books as the said Mr Ellis told me and not give him one nor was it by me given now that this onely câ—uâ—â— aforesaid must he taken in the businesse I thinke cannot but seem strange to all that read it These Notes made in answer to the Doctor by me were of two dayes making which will plead for their imperfection for thy better understanding the Treatise the letter P. is put for what page of the Book called The smoake of the Temple c. the Doctor drew his observation from and the Scripture added to it shews the ground the Doctor drew his assertions from which I doubt not but will clear many things in Scripture hid formerly to the world and prove profitable to all that read them by beeing compared things with things But to come to the Doctors observations themselves he passeth by the three first pages as having nothing to object and begins with page 4. striving if he had strength enough to remove the Evangelist from his owne into anothers place and so I leave him to his lift and triall of his strength who may as soone by help of a leaver role the round world out of his place as the Evangelist out of his and sooner too so unable is man found to be when he strives against Truth Luke 16.29 compared with Eph. 2.20 P. 4. Doctor WHat is here said of the Apostles is appliable unto Evangelists Resp 1. This is petitio principii or a begging the thing in question Mr Doctor You would have it so 2. The Scriptures were given by Divine inspiration to the Apostles and Prophets but not the ordinary Evangelists 3. Nor are the Evangelists to be proved as the Apostles are to be in any extraordinary way in the Church God in 2 Ephes 20. saith the Apostles and Prophets are of the Foundation but not Evangelists Dr. I say those Prophets who were before Christs time are properly to be understood Eph. 2.20 because they were the foundation upon which the Church was built as appears by Acts 26.22 2 Pet. 1.19 yet I hold that the Prophets which are named Eph. 4.11 are distinct from those Antient ones these are not the foundation of the Christian Church but these were the Apostolicall office 〈◊〉 doth ementer 〈◊〉 comprehend these but not these for these were before the Apostles nor are the Prophets named Eph. 4.11 qua distinct from the Apostles but if at all they are to be â—united the foundation it is onely as in and under the Apostolical office Then besides by the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets is only meant the doctrine Apostolical and Prophetical whereof Christ is the substance that is the one corner stone and is it not so also in respect of the Evangelists Resp 1. For Answer to this confused masse take my owne words in my Book by Prophets I understand not only those wrot before Christs time but those wrot since also 2. Whereas he saith The Antient ones are not the foundation of the Christian Church It is clear the Prophets before Christ are in the same way a foundation to the now Church as the Prophets that were since 1 Peter 1.12 Not to themselves but to us saith the Apostle speaking to those under the Gospel administrations they did minister these things in a Church administration only they were not in this time 3. He saith The Prophets are not spoken
that they are so ordinary as to be any where but in a true visible Constituted Church only which hath or ought to have the Evangelist also in ordinary As to the Question I Answer there hath not been this 1240 year a visible Church in which rightly have been the true Church ministry and right Church constitution though there hath been an invisible Church through all the time in the world 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placâ—d in the Church these but not out of the Church Dr. The warrant we have is a lawful call to the ministry the Apostle James doth forbid a masterly elusorious way of teaching as is clear by the whole sequel of his discourse Resp Sir The smoke of the Temple offends your eyes yet ye cannot see clearly your Church is no true Church nor that it is as you found the Antichrist of Rome leave it and is no better for its constitution then Rome's Church is Now such as your Church is your call is and such your ministry It is true Indeed James forbids a masterly Teaching and such is yours Sir for you Teach in the Church so by your single Ministry as you have no example in the Scripture for it As for James his Church Church ministry there spoke of was the same with yours not a company of Saints but adulteresses and adulterers Jam. 4.4 persecutors and blasphemers James 2.6 7. their tongues set one fire of hel ful of cursing and bitterness Chap. 3.6 9 and no where called a Church in his Epistle Sir it seemes the more I rub your eyes the worse the smoke troubles youâ— John's first Epistle was written to another manner of Society Dr. It is true Paul did all because every officer of a superiour degree hath authority to do the actions of the inferiour but where are we forbidden to teach must not a minister be chosen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 3.12 Resp 1. He did them all until the Church was constituted where he was but when he had others to Teach and labour with him he took not their worke out of their hands 1 Cor. 1.14 thus Peter Acts 10.48 2. That ye are forbidden to Teach without a lawfull call that is Anticristian 〈…〉 yeâ— you are forbid to Teach as you doe 2 Cor. 10.13 we that is Paul Silvanus Timothy 2 Cor. 1.19 in the name of the full Church ministry Paul saith we wil not boast of things without our measure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor pray observe in one Church every minister hath a measure allowed him to Teach by which is laid out as by a rule of which in ministry every man is not to take what he wil as you do but God hath parted to each ministry his doctrine in the Church yea to the Apostles when they taught as ordinary Teachers and to those that taught with them to which Paul alludes 1 Thes 2.4 as we were allowed of God there is a Gospel allowance to Teachers what they should Teach and yet Bishops chosen by teaching that doctrine he was to be called to teach in the Church and not by others P. 10. Dr. Here is no mention of an Evangelist at all how then is it proved hence that he is a perpetual and assistant minister in the Church and if as he saith The Apostle doth speak here of publique Church Ministry and doth not name an Evangelist in it then the argument is strong against him that an Evangelist is not an ordinary publique minister Resp Mr Doctor seems profoundly to argue in this place against nothing pray consider it 1. That in this Scripture Rom. 12.6 7 8. is not mentioned the name of Prophet Pastor or Teacher which he cannot deny but yet are implyed here but because the Evangelist is not set down therfore he hath no place at all though the other may have having the Doctor 's leave 2. The Prophet in prophesy which was before him is implyed and the Pastour in his work of exhortation that comes after him and the Doctor in teaching is implyed And there is Ministry for one in the Evangelist's place but he must not be there unlesse he be set down an Evangelist though all teaching and his emmenter may be called Ministry Sir here cannot be understood any other Church-Teacher whatever nor your Church-Deacon or supposed Elder these follow in vers 8. in giving and ruling Sir I pray take heed of your taking too much liberty in making the Scripture speak against themselves if you forbear that I am sure they will not speak for you at all here Dr. This is a silly and irregular thought for how can a Church be constituted before God give gifts Shall we make Evangelists before God makes them All Pastors and Teachers are in a generall sent Evangelists that is publishers of the Gospel but not in a peculiar sent as he would have the Evangelist to be Resp Reader the cause of the Doctor breaking out into this silly cry is for that in my Book pag. 10. is written whereas the Apostle saith there be divers gifts from this Rom. 12. I think if ever a Church were rightly constituted greater gifts would be bestowed on men then since the Apostles 1. The Doctor understands not that God hath distinguished the Church gift from the Heavenly gift the Church gifts are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are given to men by the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the divine gift God had given them to minister the Church gift by which is the severall cals of the Church ministry Evangelists Pastors Teachers and thus indeed the Church is not to make before God hath made them but after 2. For what cause the Doctor troubles himself about Pastors and Teachers being Evangelists having before written of it and so few unworthy observations of a Doctor and up with it so often shews he wanted matter to object and that the man is mightily troubled about the Evangelist in his mind Dr. This Paragraph is to me a piece of nonsense for I knew not what he would say in it or how it is coherent with this former discourse Resp If the Doctor be silly as he makes himself I wonder he would take upon him in so unworthy a way to send down his notions in so secret a way to disgrace me and my writings privately amongst the ignorant multitude it had been more honour having been provoked to the presse or print to have published some worthy work in defence of their Presbyterian Government set out in the Propositions which I printed against or against that form of Church Government I added to it or prove their Government by the practice of the Primitive Church and disprove that in my Treatise of the resurrection of faln Churches and not in seeking to correct truth for errour in a Book make ten errours when he proves none but the not understood nonsense he talks of is in this The Church ministry is set out oft times by one word in
we take your words to be divine Oracles it is enough but methinks it were more like your selfe to say thus saith the Lord not I as faithfull Paul said or else say thus saiâ— I and not the Lord but you will say I say this now and anon you will say God said but if God had said so you would not have weakened your cause so as to say I say 1 Pet. 4.10 as every man hath received the gift that is the ministerial call from the Church so minister the same not other gifts by your leave of this I writ fully in my Letters I wonder I do not hear from you I fear some private papers in the darke as this are sent abroad by you to catch silly soules withall Dr. If God send forth fellow-labourers 〈…〉 they are to do their work joyntly and distinctly according to their Talent which they shall have and shall make them fittest for service the Apostle 1 Tim 3. Tit 1. where he expresly doth institute the appoyntment of Church Officers doth name none but Presbyters and Deacons and under that name comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but in the same persons although if God send forth more labourers then are in a particular Vineyard they may apply themselves distinctly more to one then to the other as their Talents make them fittest for service but if there be no more then one alone sent forth he is to deal as the severall objects and occasions require his service Resp Sir your joyntly which you allow to the Gospel labourers is of necessity you cannot deny that for the Scriptures are so clear but your leaven lyeth hid yea you allow they must do it distinctly also but joyntly in a Nationall Church distinctly in a Parochiall otherwise it cannot be understood in your societies Did Paul Sylvanus Timothy do their work thus Nationally Mr Doctor You have not these in any Church who should have them in all And after again you say the word Presbyter comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but the same persons I hope when you read this again you will be ashamed of it As for your conceit of a particular Vineyard and applying themselves more to one then another hath no ground or proof from Scripture and then you tell us of the sending out of 〈◊〉 Labourerâ— Scripture speaks of no such thing P. 25. The true and false ministry are distinguished from the differing materials 1 Cor 3.12 Dr. This is your ordinary fault to lay too much weight upon Metaphoricall and Allegoricall speeches Resp Sir the Kingdom of God was set out in Allegories and is in especiall manner if ever to be known to be known from them Satan now to keep this Kingdom hid hath taught men a long time to deny any argument to be deduced from them to prove any thing at all by But Sir why not from them Is it not the Word of God And is not the Kingdom and mysteries thereof laid up in them It cannot be denied but thence a discovery comes to be made against the present practice Indeed if you will say because they are not understood we cannot argue from them it were something and so may be said of all the Scriptures Dr. You stretch the matter beyond the Apostles scope and so you do continually in all this discourse Resp Mr Doctor Lis coram judicibus est Dr. It is clear the Apostle doth presuppose that the same man may at one time build hay at another stubble and at another wood and the same man may build gold and silver and precious stones at different times nay and this is clear that at one time a man may build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble You stretch the Apostles words beyond his scope and rack them to another purpose then the Holy Ghost doth intend and then in all this following discourse you make upon this sandy ground a building of fantasticall conjectures to prove your poynt Resp Mr Doctor your single stubble ministry may some of them not at one time build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble but gold silver hay wood and stubble at oâ—â—â— teaching for ought I know Sir the question hangs on these 1. Where there were a single ministry at Corinth to do this or not or your supposition is nothing and your doctrine false and Antichristian that is worse 1 Cor 1.12 and chap 4.6 15. chap 12.9 2. Where Paul in his Epistle doth not endeavour to describe the false Church ministry and their work from the true and their work both ministring in Corinth or not as in his second Epistle written from Philippy as the first was in which this is opened clearly 2 Cor 11.4 where the Teacher of each society is applyed unto who is said to teach Jesus the foundation yea and the Gospel which Paul taught but in a corrupt way as vers 3. He was afraid lest their minds were corrupted from the simplicity of Christ And now lest the Apostle should be thought to aim at one individuall person in the word he vers 3. compares vers 13 14. Satans Ministers to the Ministers of Christ for number order way of ministry as Paul in the Gospel had taught to be Or who knoweth not that the Church of Corinth could not so easily be seduced by them 3. But that this is not meant of a single ministry as the Doctor dreams I commend to his consideration 1 Cor 3. vers 13. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is 1. Here is every man not one mans work then is applyed to 2. Every mans work is of one of these sorts and not one mans of all of these sorts as Mr Doctor I will not say fantastically conjectures 3. Vers 14. If any mans work abide Vers 15. If any mans work shall be burnt See Reader how corrupt the Doctors exposition is and contrary to the Scripture by his doctrine no mans work shall abide his ministry builds hay wood anâ— stubble nor no mans work be burned for again his ministry builds gold silver precious stones Mr Doctor your doctrine is wooden doctrine at last you will suffer losse by it P. 26. 1 Cor 4.6 These things have I transferred to my self and Apollo Dr. The Apostle transferred the things he spake of his Stewardship of the Apostleship received of God and of his faithfulnesse therein to himself and to Apollo to teach the Corinthians not to be puffed up so one against another and that they should not esteem more of any man then they ought But you run out into endlesse mistakes and mis-applications of the Apostles meaning and confound the places together which have quite different scopes Resp 1. If the Doctor writes two leâ—â—es for refutation to help fill up the margent of my Book he writes two or three of bombast railing accusations without giving reason as here you confound places together but noâ— shew where Sure he had no leisure to shew in
is the main work and the principâ—ll And this is all that the Apostle in the place doth intend and not to distinguish preaching and baptizing so as if they did belong to severall offices and administrations You do in this as in most of your other allegations rack the Scriptures and make it speak that which it never meant Resp 1. Mr Doctor At the close ends still with some Monstrum hor rendum intending that when this prog in the dark was carried up and down the Reader wherever he opened the Book and perused his notes should apprehend that and all the rest to be abominable stuffe without more looking after it as some of late formerly my Friends told some of my Congregation that the Mininisters made but a mock of my Books chiefly occasioned doubtlesse through the Doctors silly notes and notions 2. Whereas you say to baptize was not the main work for which the Apostles were sent nor for which ministers are appoynted I know none denies it But Mr Doctor the Question is where it were to be done or not 2. Where it were to be done but by ministers ordinarily that were sent or called to do it or not 3. The Apostle saith he was not sent to do that 1 Cor 1.17 that is ordinarily and then where others were not sent thereto the Apostle baptized few 1 Cor 1.14 16 and yet in Corinth Act 18.8 many hearing believed and were baptized Your Countryman Rutherford a man of judgment saith in his Treatise of Church-Government some other hence in Corinth did baptize beside Paul and can you think he did it in the same Church with him without Commission And did not this Commission he had in some kind give the Apostle cause to say being in ordinary Church-fellowship with the other he was not sent to Baptize but Evangelize and cals him co-worker with him working in the same Church Paul taught in prove the contrary if you can 4. I distinguish not teaching from baptizing but the Teachers by their administrations the Teacher teacheth as well as the Evangelist though not the same doctrine nor to the same people 5. The Apostle not I distinguisheth Evangelizing from Baptizing Baptism being a peculiar act of the Teachers ministry and in a especiall kind distinguishing him 6. If this were so common to all why did not Peter baptize the first Gentiles men that received the holy spirit but comand others to do it Aâ— 10.48 P. 28. In saying he was not the Apostle implyeth some are sent to baptize Dr. Do you think that any are sent to baptize and not to preach Mr Doctor have you my Book to read and do you ask that question Or did you send to Mr Ellis to answer you for me Do you find any such thing in all my Book Is not the contrary set down in many places Sir it seems you would beg me say so because you cannot make my Book do it Are things at this ebb with you Mr Doctor Dr. If the purpose of sending is primarily to preach and secondarily to baptize then the Apostle saith right that his commission was rather to intend the preaching work then the Baptizing of Disciples Resp 1. Mr Doctor What if this be not the purpose what then doth the Apostle say wrong it's 〈◊〉 no wrong to me if you say so of my writings if you are so saucy to say so of the Apostles but Mr Doctor we know your mind which is this That if the Apostles or any else say otherwaies then you would have them say they say wrong but when they say as you would have them say then they say right yea right or wrong 2. It was primarily to preach but it was to men without the Church before Baptism and secondarily baptize and yet Mr Doctor the Apostle is wrong in your sense 1. Here he speaks of Baptizing first as the first and Evangelizing after 2. This was to a Church constituted even Corinth and tended to perfect them after the Church admission in the faith of the Gospel being baptized already Dr. In your paragraph foregoing you say that baptizing was and the Doctrine of Bâ—ptism the Doctors work as appears Heb. 6.1 and why not the Pastors and the Evangelists or the Apostles do all that either of these do Resp Mr Doctor Your why not hath no cause in it why they yea or the Apostles themselves should do it ordinarily yet for these causes not 1. Because God for edification and order ordered it otherwaies 2. By a Gospel law God hath committed to each one his dispensation in his proper place Sir if a man had asked Moses why may not the Levites do that the Priests do the Priests do that the high Priests do would he not have said it was otherwaies in your pattern God will not have it so and what else could he have said for who hath been his Counsellour Dr. Heb 6 1. The fundamentals of the Doctrine of Christ are reckoned up and hath the Evangelist nothing to do with them to publish them I wonder at this weaknesse and at the whole sequel of this discourâ—e Resp Mr Doctor The Evangelist hath to do with them as a beleiver but to teach these to the society of strong men in Christ he hath not I do not know where you will say the Apostle saith right or wrong in saying so as you did before but so he saith Heb 6.1 Leaving therfore the word or Doctrine of the beginning of Christ let us be carried on unto perfection and after _____ Mr Doctor what is here meant by this not again laying the foundation if not that they were not to be taught again to perfect men by the Evangelists as they before had been by the Teacher to his babes P. 29. Nicodemus John 3.12 Dr. What although Christ doth speak of earthly and heavenly things in respect of the maâ—ter doth it therfore follow that he who teacheth the one may not meddle with the other These consequences are so senslesse that a man doth not know what to say of them Resp Mr Doctor See Joh. 3.3 1. There is mention of a man one that is in the condition of all mankind before regeneration meerly naturall 2. Regeneration is required of him as the means 3. Before this he cannot see the Kingdom of God in himself or in Church communion as the end for these are aimed at as â—n vers 5. is set out by water for the visible Kingdom or administrations of that Kingdom and then the Holy Ghost for the inward 1 In the former estate he is of the earth earthly as the first Adam was 1 Cor. 15.47 to whom Christ sheweth what that estate is and what is required to come out of it 2. In the Kingdom estate are Heavenly things ministred which Christ doth not minister to them not born again and shews why not because if they could not believe that Doctrine or teaching did so mediatly concern their state and condition how should they believe that concerned the