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A69753 The generall demands, of the reverend doctors of divinitie, and ministers of the Gospell in Aberdene, concerning the late covenant, in Scotland together, with the answeres, replyes, and duplyes that followed thereupon, in the year, 1638 : reprinted in one book, by order of Parliament. Forbes, John, 1593-1648.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646. 1663 (1663) Wing C4226; Wing C4225; ESTC R6298 125,063 170

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now_o we_o think_v they_o to_o be_v so_o necessary_a that_o although_o the_o general_a assembly_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v discharge_v they_o we_o behove_v still_o to_o practice_v they_o we_o answer_v first_o that_o the_o assembly_n of_o pearth_n have_v determine_v nothing_o of_o the_o indifferency_n or_o necessity_n of_o these_o thing_n second_o if_o any_o who_o allow_v these_o article_n do_v at_o that_o time_n in_o their_o discourse_n and_o speech_n call_v they_o indifferent_a they_o mean_v only_o that_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o these_o sacrament_n the_o circumstance_n of_o place_n and_o time_n be_v thing_n indifferent_a of_o their_o own_o nature_n or_o which_o be_v all_o one_o that_o we_o be_v not_o so_o tie_v to_o the_o administration_n of_o they_o in_o the_o church_n and_o at_o time_n appoint_v for_o sermon_n but_o we_o may_v celebrate_v they_o in_o private_a house_n and_o at_o other_o time_n but_o judicious_a and_o learned_a man_n even_o than_o think_v the_o deny_v of_o these_o sacrament_n to_o person_n who_o can_v not_o come_v or_o be_v bring_v to_o the_o church_n to_o be_v a_o restrain_v of_o the_o mean_n of_o grace_n altogether_o unwarrandable_a by_o god_n word_n whence_o you_o may_v collect_v whether_o or_o not_o they_o think_v it_o to_o be_v unlawful_a three_o you_o have_v no_o warrant_n from_o our_o reply_n to_o say_v that_o we_o will_v not_o abstain_v from_o private_a baptism_n and_o communion_n although_o our_o national_a assembly_n shall_v discharge_v they_o for_o as_o we_o be_v very_o unwilling_a to_o omit_v any_o necessary_a duty_n of_o our_o call_v so_o we_o carry_v a_o singular_a respect_n to_o lawful_a authority_n and_o to_o the_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n abhor_v schism_n as_o the_o very_a pest_n of_o the_o church_n but_o of_o this_o we_o shall_v speak_v hereafter_o in_o the_o thirteen_o duply_v 53_o next_o you_o say_v if_o we_o have_v the_o same_o judgement_n of_o kneel_v in_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o communion_n and_o of_o festival_n day_n it_o come_v to_o pass_v among_o we_o which_o have_v be_v incident_a to_o the_o church_n in_o former_a age_n that_o thing_n have_v be_v first_o bring_v in_o as_o indifferent_a then_o urge_v as_o necessary_a certain_o brethren_n none_o be_v so_o guilty_a of_o this_o as_o yourselves_o and_o your_o associate_n for_o you_o have_v now_o make_v some_o thing_n to_o be_v esteem_v necessary_a by_o your_o follower_n which_o have_v be_v account_v indifferent_a not_o only_o since_o the_o reformation_n but_o these_o fifteen_o hundred_o year_n by-gone_a and_o in_o some_o other_o thing_n which_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v wise_o forbid_v you_o do_v now_o make_v the_o liberty_n of_o the_o gospel_n to_o consist_v as_o for_o we_o we_o stand_v as_o we_o stand_v before_o and_o do_v yet_o think_v kneel_v in_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o five_o festival_n day_n to_o be_v rite_n indifferent_a in_o their_o own_o nature_n but_o indeed_o very_o profitable_a 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by_o mantain_v the_o necessity_n of_o private_a baptism_n and_o communion_n do_v condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o this_o our_o church_n from_o the_o reformation_n till_o pearth_n assembly_n and_o put_v no_o small_a guiltiness_n upon_o other_o reform_a church_n who_o use_v not_o private_a baptism_n and_o communion_n at_o all_o but_o abstain_v from_o they_o as_o dangerous_a we_o answer_v that_o we_o have_v in_o all_o modesty_n propon_v our_o own_o judgement_n concern_v private_a baptism_n and_o private_a communion_n nominem_fw-la judica●tes_fw-la as_o cyprian_n say_v of_o old_a in_o consilio_fw-la carthag_n in_o praefat_fw-la nor_o take_v upon_o we_o to_o censure_v or_o condemn_v the_o practice_n either_o of_o this_o church_n in_o time_n precede_v pearth_n assembly_n or_o of_o other_o reform_a church_n we_o can_v not_o indeed_o deny_v but_o we_o dissent_v from_o they_o and_o if_o this_o be_v a_o condemn_v of_o they_o we_o may_v no_o less_o just_o say_v to_o you_o that_o you_o condemn_v the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n not_o only_o of_o our_o reformer_n in_o the_o particular_n mention_v before_o in_o this_o same_o dup_o but_o also_o of_o diverse_a reform_a church_n and_o of_o the_o ancient_a church_n as_o we_o declare_v in_o our_o six_o demand_n and_o shall_v again_o speak_v of_o it_o in_o our_o six_o duply_v a_o defence_n of_o our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n concern_v the_o celebration_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o private_a place_n 56._o you_o desire_v we_o wise_o to_o consider_v whether_o the_o desire_n which_o our_o people_n have_v of_o baptism_n and_o communion_n in_o time_n of_o sickness_n be_v not_o occasion_v by_o prevail_v of_o popery_n and_o through_o a_o superstitious_a conceit_n that_o people_n have_v of_o these_o sacrament_n as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n we_o be_v loath_a to_o come_v short_a of_o you_o in_o duty_n of_o charity_n especial_o in_o good_a wish_n and_o therefore_o we_o likewise_o wish_v you_o wise_o to_o consider_v 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case_n and_o extreme_a danger_n of_o the_o religion_n and_o commonwealth_n profess_v first_o that_o he_o and_o all_o other_o protestant_n condemn_v such_o doctrine_n second_o that_o this_o error_n do_v proceed_v from_o a_o mistake_n of_o the_o government_n of_o the_o scotish_n kingdom_n ●s_n if_o it_o be_v not_o true_o &_o proper_o monarchical_a three_o that_o the_o rashness_n of_o those_o wrytter_v be_v to_o be_v ascrybed_n partly_o to_o the_o hard_a and_o perilous_a time_n of_o persecution_n wherein_o they_o live_v and_o partly_o sc●t●r●m_fw-la praef●ru●do_fw-la ingenio_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la audendum_fw-la prompto_fw-la thus_o he_o writ_v in_o the_o 13._o chap._n of_o the_o say_a book_n pag._n 274._o and_o 275._o answer_v to_o the_o recrimination_n of_o ●_o jesuit_n who_o have_v affirm_v that_o b●c●a●na●_n knox_n and_o goodman_n have_v write_v as_o bold_o for_o the_o rebellion_n of_o subject_n against_o prince_n as_o any_o of_o their_o order_n at_o any_o time_n load_v do_v a_o 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