proposition_n which_o they_o offer_v to_o maintain_v be_v such_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o true_a we_o can_v not_o just_o separat_fw-la from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n nor_o stand_v out_o against_o it_o those_o some_o proposittion_n which_o they_o mean_v be_v namely_o the_o four_o &_o eight_o set_v down_o in_o that_o offer_n which_o affirm_v that_o a_o church_n be_v but_o one_o ordinary_a congregation_n and_o that_o the_o people_n ought_v to_o have_v their_o free_a consent_n in_o the_o spiritual_a government_n thereof_o unto_o which_o may_v be_v add_v the_o 5.6.7_o and_o 10._o as_o be_v all_o of_o one_o nature_n by_o clear_a and_o certain_a consequence_n the_o soundness_n and_o firm_a truth_n of_o all_o the_o which_o have_v be_v sufficient_o prove_v and_o declare_v heretofore_o and_o may_v by_o such_o a_o right_a christian_a trial_n as_o there_o they_o desire_v be_v bring_v to_o further_a light_n wherefore_o d._n downame_n absurd_a reproach_n against_o that_o treatise_n call_v it_o most_o senseless_o 4.81_o senseless_o def_n 1.382_o &_o 4.81_o a_o unchristian_a and_o unmodest_a offer_n and_o the_o position_n therein_o schismatical_a novelty_n do_v declare_v with_o what_o gall_n of_o bitterness_n his_o heart_n over-floweth_a against_o the_o truth_n against_o his_o brethren_n as_o 2.48_o as_o def._n 2.48_o he_o dissemble_o call_v we_o and_o also_o against_o those_o noble_a pillar_n of_o the_o gospel_n before_o allege_v our_o attestator_n who_o be_v herein_o his_o utter_a adversary_n whatsoever_o he_o pretend_v to_o the_o contrary_n he_o as_o a_o cock_n on_o his_o own_o dunghill_n may_v crowâ—_n what_o he_o listen_v but_o if_o the_o offer_n have_v be_v or_o may_v be_v accept_v in_o such_o equal_a order_n as_o be_v there_o tender_v he_o will_v be_v make_v to_o eat_v his_o word_n i_o doubt_v not_o and_o all_o the_o infamy_n of_o schism_n &_o novelty_n will_v fall_v upon_o his_o own_o head_n without_o which_o acceptanc_fw-la elet_n the_o doct._n know_v that_o his_o tedious_a and_o sophistical_a writing_n &_o all_o other_o such_o like_a will_v be_v hold_v by_o wise_a man_n to_o be_v vain_a boast_n and_o no_o better_a conquest_n then_o of_o such_o champion_n as_o draw_v their_o weapon_n strike_v fight_z and_o take_v on_o at_o adversary_n who_o hand_n they_o will_v be_v sure_a themselves_o have_v first_o tie_v fast_o yea_o who_o they_o will_v be_v sure_a to_o have_v in_o their_o power_n to_o imprison_v and_o persecute_v if_o any_o presume_v to_o move_v against_o they_o neither_o will_v they_o endure_v to_o be_v show_v the_o imminent_a danger_n from_o the_o common_a enemy_n till_o all_o come_v about_o their_o head_n and_o so_o much_o touch_v the_o important_a consequence_n of_o our_o present_a assertion_n chap._n 8._o a_o answer_n to_o divers_a chief_a objection_n of_o the_o adversary_n of_o this_o cause_n note_v also_o brief_o their_o immodest_a &_o not_o christian-like_a reproach_n against_o this_o evangelicall_n doctrine_n first_o we_o will_v consider_v here_o d._n downame_n second_o book_n of_o his_o defence_n answereâ—â—_n d._n downame_n defence_n 2._o book_n answereâ—â—_n affirm_v and_o maintain_v that_o there_o be_v proper_a diocesan_n church_n under_o the_o apostle_n which_o be_v true_a the_o people_n then_o certain_o have_v not_o a_o free_a consent_n in_o church-governement_n a_o clear_a reason_n whereof_o i_o show_v before_o pag._n 85._o and_o i_o willing_o acknowledge_v it_o still_o yea_o and_o likewise_o that_o neither_o now_o they_o ought_v to_o have_v that_o under_o the_o apostle_n the_o church_n be_v proper_o diocesan_n the_o d._n affirm_v in_o the_o title_n of_o this_o second_o book_n of_o his_o defense_n and_o do_v his_o best_a to_o maintain_v it_o in_o the_o whole_a process_n thereof_o afterward_o where_o indeed_o i_o commend_v he_o above_o all_o other_o that_o ever_o write_v in_o this_o cause_n against_o we_o commendatior_n d_o downame_n commendatior_n namely_o for_o that_o he_o do_v more_o fit_o and_o right_o set_v down_o the_o point_n of_o the_o controversy_n which_o have_v so_o long_o trouble_v christian_a people_n in_o england_n 8._o chap._n 8._o than_o any_o other_o before_o he_o have_v do_v which_o apostle_n which_o whether_o proper_a diocesan_n church_n be_v under_o the_o apostle_n point_n only_o if_o it_o be_v christianly_o and_o plain_o decide_v will_v bring_v great_a contentment_n and_o a_o joyful_a unity_n i_o be_o persuade_v to_o many_o thousand_o but_o the_o proof_n of_o his_o assertion_n here_o do_v all_o fail_v he_o nay_o they_o be_v strange_o abuse_v and_o pervert_v by_o he_o special_o his_o scripture_n and_o herein_o he_o be_v little_a to_o be_v commend_v let_v we_o examine_v therefore_o his_o scripture_n and_o then_o the_o rest_n yet_o by_o the_o way_n we_o will_v define_v a_o proper_a diocesan_n church_n church_n the_o definition_n of_o a_o diocesan_n church_n before_o we_o begin_v with_o he_o a_o diocesan_n church_n be_v a_o society_n of_o profess_a christian_n who_o spiritual_a government_n be_v practise_v without_o the_o people_n sieâ—_n consent_n and_o who_o pastor_n have_v a_o plurality_n of_o ordinarâ—e_a congregation_n in_o his_o charge_n such_o a_o church_n we_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v under_o the_o apostle_n and_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o have_v recourse_n to_o those_o seven_o reason_n of_o i_o which_o i_o have_v etc._n have_v declarat_fw-la pag._n 20.21_o etc._n etc._n elsewhere_o set_v down_o to_o prove_v this_o my_o denial_n and_o to_o disprove_v his_o assertion_n now_o what_o do_v the_o doctor_n bring_v to_o prove_v his_o opinion_n expect_v not_o good_a reader_n that_o i_o shall_v follow_v he_o in_o his_o vain_a flourish_n and_o needle_n amplification_n repetition_n invective_n &_o other_o passage_n more_o fit_a for_o ostentation_n &_o to_o satisfy_v his_o intemperate_a humour_n then_o for_o profit_n my_o desire_n be_v so_o as_o i_o may_v with_o perspicuity_n in_o the_o cause_n to_o use_v brevity_n and_o if_o not_o to_o deâ—iver_v multa_fw-la paucis_fw-la yet_o to_o take_v heed_n not_o to_o deliver_v pauca_fw-la multis_fw-la as_o he_o do_v wherefore_o i_o will_v pick_v out_o that_o which_o 〈◊〉_d see_v material_a in_o he_o the_o rest_n i_o will_v â—et_o pass_v in_o his_o first_o chapter_n pag._n 4._o he_o jet_v down_o a_o most_o confuse_a distribution_n of_o the_o divers_a sense_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n ecclesia_fw-la 2.4_o d._n down_o defen_n 2.4_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o we_o usual_o translate_v 〈◊〉_d church_n wherein_o he_o commit_v 5._o error_n pertinent_a to_o our_o question_n first_o from_o this_o in_o mat._n 18.17_o act._n 15.22_o he_o â—ould_v make_v a_o synod_n or_o consistone_n which_o have_v answer_v before_o pa._n 108._o etc._n etc._n seâ—ondly_o a_o nationall_n church_n of_o the_o jew_n act._n 7.38_o which_o likewise_o i_o have_v answer_v in_o reas._n for_o reform_v pag._n 5._o in_o the_o margin_n three_o christian_n nationall_n church_n in_o the_o nobe_a plural_a as_o he_o speak_v namely_o in_o rom._n 16.4_o 1._o cor._n 16.1_o â—9_n 2._o cor._n 8.1_o gal._n 1.2.22_o which_o place_n â—e_n abuse_v &_o pervert_v most_o rude_o and_o desperate_o the_o word_n do_v express_o signify_v nothing_o but_o a_o nomâ—er_n of_o ordinary_a congregation_n parish_n such_o we_o mean_v by_o parish_n â—ath_v of_o they_o assemble_v in_o one_o â—lace_n or_o at_o most_o contain_v 28.29.31.32_o contain_v see_v my_o declarat_fw-la pa_n 10._o and_o 18.19_o &_o 28.29.31.32_o no_o mo_z ordinary_a assembly_n than_o one_o and_o he_o without_o yea_o contrary_a to_o the_o express_a â—etter_n fanci_v to_o himself_o a_o nationall_n church_n from_o no_o ground_n nor_o show_v of_o ground_n in_o these_o place_n four_o he_o bring_v act._n 5.11_o and_o 8.1_o and_o 11.12_o and_o 12.1.5_o and_o 13.1_o and_o 14.23_o &_o 20.17.28_o 1._o cor._n 1.2_o 2._o cor._n 8.23_o 2._o thes_n 1.1_o 1._o tim._n 5.16_o jam._n 5.14_o apoc._n 1.4.11.20_o and_o 2.1_o etc._n etc._n to_o prove_v a_o church_n of_o a_o city_n and_o country_n adjoin_v where_o his_o error_n be_v like_a to_o the_o former_a what_o shall_v i_o say_v to_o this_o man_n not_o one_o of_o all_o these_o signifi_v a_o church_n of_o a_o city_n and_o country_n adjoin_v if_o he_o mean_v it_o to_o be_v extend_v or_o intend_v to_o mo_z ordinary_a congregation_n then_o only_o one_o which_o be_v his_o meaning_n it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n of_o these_o city_n here_o specify_v viz._n of_o jerusalem_n antioch_n ephesus_n corinth_n thessalonica_n etc._n etc._n may_v have_v member_n then_o which_o dwell_v scatter_o and_o some_o a_o good_a way_n of_o from_o the_o place_n of_o their_o ordinary_a main_a meeting_n and_o such_o also_o as_o do_v assemble_v often_o in_o divers_a uncertain_a company_n as_o in_o time_n of_o trouble_n there_o be_v reason_n &_o it_o often_o come_v to_o pass_v but_o yet_o in_o those_o primitive_a time_n they_o all_o in_o each_o church_n than_o make_v no_o mo_z but_o parish_n but_o which_o
a_o attestation_n of_o many_o learned_a godly_a and_o famous_a divine_n light_n of_o religion_n and_o pillar_n of_o the_o gospel_n justify_v this_o doctrine_n viz._n that_o the_o church-governement_n ought_v to_o be_v always_o with_o the_o people_n free_a consent_n also_o this_o that_o a_o true_a church_n under_o the_o gospel_n contain_v no_o more_o ordinary_a congregation_n but_o one_o in_o the_o discourse_n whereof_o special_o doctor_n downame_n &_o also_o d._n bilson_n chief_a matter_n in_o their_o writing_n against_o the_o same_o be_v answer_v calvin_n instit_fw-la 4.3.2_o he_o labour_v the_o destruction_n and_o ruin_n of_o the_o church_n whosoever_o either_o seek_v to_o abolish_v this_o order_n and_o this_o kind_n of_o government_n whereof_o we_o treat_v or_o make_v light_n of_o it_o as_o not_o so_o necessary_a anno_fw-la dom._n 1613._o to_o my_o christian_a and_o belove_a friend_n in_o london_n and_o elsewhere_o in_o england_n grace_n and_o peace_n be_v multiply_v in_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n the_o great_a and_o long_a affliction_n which_o it_o have_v please_v god_n to_o call_v i_o unto_o only_o for_o testify_v his_o heavenly_a truth_n against_o the_o grievous_a corruption_n of_o the_o church_n in_o our_o land_n be_v well_o know_v unto_o you_o all_o my_o most_o dear_a and_o love_a friend_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o which_o my_o trouble_n what_o comfort_n i_o have_v receive_v from_o you_o though_o i_o publish_v not_o yet_o both_o a_o most_o thankful_a remembrance_n thereof_o remain_v in_o my_o heart_n and_o with_o god_n a_o most_o precious_a recompense_n be_v lay_v up_o for_o you_o at_o the_o last_o day_n i_o confess_v i_o may_v â—og_v since_o have_v be_v discourage_v through_o many_o thing_n which_o i_o find_v both_o within_o and_o without_o i_o beside_o i_o have_v not_o escape_v the_o byting_n of_o false_a brethren_n also_o i_o be_o not_o ignorant_a that_o divers_a yea_o of_o those_o that_o least_o shall_v do_v not_o only_a distaste_n but_o also_o speak_v evil_a of_o my_o innocence_n without_o all_o cause_n in_o very_a deed_n they_o can_v not_o tell_v why_o but_o god_n the_o righteous_a judge_n see_v it_o who_o yet_o still_o sustain_v and_o strengthenth_n my_o infirmity_n by_o who_o grace_n i_o be_o that_o i_o be_o wherefore_o in_o his_o name_n i_o do_v still_o bear_v witness_n to_o the_o truth_n deny_v by_o many_o man_n &_o do_v now_o take_v in_o hand_n to_o entreat_v here_o concern_v the_o christian_a people_n power_n &_o right_v of_o proper_o of_o also_o consequent_o that_o a_o true_a church_n under_o the_o gospel_n contain_v no_o mo_z ordinary_a congregation_n they_o one_o &_o be_v not_o diocesan_n proper_o free_a consent_n in_o their_o outward_a spiritual_a government_n give_v they_o by_o christ_n jesus_n in_o the_o gospel_n and_o therefore_o to_o his_o gracious_a assistance_n herein_o i_o also_o do_v trust_v in_o the_o which_o affair_n i_o think_v it_o very_o behooveful_a for_o the_o better_a manifestation_n of_o my_o lawful_a and_o just_a endeavour_n and_o no_o less_o needful_a for_o god_n glory_n to_o speak_v to_o this_o matter_n propound_v in_o this_o treatise_n not_o myself_o alone_o but_o to_o show_v open_o unto_o all_o who_o have_v but_o a_o spark_n of_o love_n to_o the_o truth_n such_o a_o attestation_n of_o faithful_a and_o worthy_a witness_n with_o i_o in_o this_o matter_n be_v the_o main_a foundation_n of_o our_o great_a controversy_n touchinge_v church_n government_n that_o i_o hope_v hereafter_o none_o will_v set_v against_o this_o my_o seek_v both_o of_o my_o own_o and_o your_o soul_n good_a nor_o cavil_v at_o it_o but_o such_o as_o be_v too_o worldly_a and_o too_o earthly_a mind_v in_o my_o discourse_n upon_o this_o cause_n as_o touch_v objection_n 1611._o d_o down_n defenc_n anno._n 1611._o chief_o i_o gather_v out_o of_o doctor_n downame_n such_o as_o seem_v to_o any_o purpose_n &_o i_o answer_v they_o he_o beer_n i_o special_o deal_v with_o because_o of_o a_o friend_n he_o be_v not_o long_o since_o turn_v from_o we_o and_o become_v our_o adversary_n yea_o the_o late_a i_o thinkc_n which_o open_o show_v himself_o against_o we_o and_o so_o be_v like_a to_o be_v now_o must_v in_o man_n eye_n also_o he_o have_v heap_v together_o the_o most_o thing_n that_o the_o best_a of_o such_o defender_n have_v heretofore_o write_v beside_o all_o this_o the_o manner_n of_o his_o writing_n be_v with_o such_o a_o 122._o a_o defence_n 1._o pag._n 16_o 17._o 2._o pag_n 122._o insolent_a conceit_n of_o himself_o &_o with_o such_o 15._o such_o defence_n 2._o pag_n 55._o 15._o contempt_n indignation_n and_o despite_n against_o we_o as_o common_o be_v not_o see_v in_o any_o but_o those_o that_o slide_v back_o from_o the_o truth_n which_o they_o have_v once_o tact_v of_o and_o withal_o though_o in_o his_o defence_n he_o deal_v with_o another_o yet_o in_o many_o passage_n he_o very_o sharp_o provoke_v i_o in_o particular_a beside_o other_o wrong_n that_o he_o have_v do_v i_o well_o know_v for_o these_o cause_n both_o i_o write_v this_o that_o i_o do_v and_o i_o chief_o nominate_v he_o for_o our_o adversary_n as_o in_o this_o treatise_n so_o also_o declaration_n also_o in_o the_o declaration_n elsewhere_o my_o christian_a and_o love_a friend_n for_o who_o sake_n most_o of_o all_o i_o labour_v and_o have_v labour_v to_o make_v our_o say_a question_n which_o be_v long_o intricat_a &_o trouble_v some_o to_o be_v short_a and_o plain_a and_o to_o make_v the_o matter_n itself_o also_o appear_v so_o weighty_a as_o indeed_o it_o be_v now_o your_o part_n be_v wise_o and_o religions_o to_o ponder_v in_o your_o heart_n and_o to_o make_v use_n of_o this_o same_o as_o the_o apostle_n speak_v to_o timothy_n so_o do_v i_o unto_o you_o consider_v brethren_n what_o i_o say_v and_o the_o lord_n give_v you_o understanding_n in_o all_o thing_n amen_n july_n 18._o anno_fw-la 1612._o you_o ever_o in_o the_o lord_n henry_n jacob_n the_o content_n of_o this_o book_n divide_v into_o nine_o chapter_n chap._n i._n the_o great_a importance_n of_o the_o matter_n here_o handle_v viz._n that_o the_o people_n ought_v to_o have_v their_o free_a consent_n in_o their_o own_o church_n government_n and_o the_o cause_n of_o publish_v this_o attestation_n to_o it_o pag._n 9_o chap._n ii_o the_o method_n and_o order_n of_o this_o treatise_n pag._n 20._o chap._n iii_o the_o testimony_n of_o many_o particular_a late_a writer_n of_o bless_a memory_n make_v for_o we_o in_o this_o matter_n pag._n 21._o chap._n four_o the_o public_a consent_n of_o many_o late_a yet_o excellent_a church_n herein_o with_o us._n pag._n 48._o chap._n v._n the_o testimony_n &_o practice_v of_o the_o best_a antiquity_n after_o the_o new_a testament_n herein_o likewise_o with_o us._n pag._n 52_o chap._n vi_o our_o very_a adversary_n sometime_o do_v acknowledge_v with_o we_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o doctrine_n in_o plain_a term_n and_o sometime_o to_o the_o same_o full_a effect_n special_o when_o they_o deal_v against_o the_o papist_n pag._n 70._o chap._n vii_o consequence_n of_o exceed_v great_a importance_n follow_v upon_o the_o people_n free_a consent_n in_o their_o church-governement_n &_o inconvenience_n intolerable_a follow_v from_o the_o contrary_n pag._n 84._o chap._n viii_o a_o answer_n to_o divers_a chief_a objection_n of_o the_o adversary_n of_o this_o cause_n note_v also_o brief_o their_o immodest_a &_o not_o christian_n like_o reproach_n against_o this_o evangelicall_n doctrine_n pag._n 199._o chap._n ix_o a_o short_a advertisement_n to_o the_o upright_o heart_a and_o christian_a reader_n touch_v this_o write_n and_o cause_n pag._n 316._o a_o attestation_n of_o many_o learned_a godly_a and_o famous_a divine_n light_n of_o religion_n &_o pillar_n of_o the_o gospel_n instify_v this_o doctrine_n viz._n that_o the_o church_n government_n ought_v to_o be_v always_o with_o the_o people_n free_a consent_n etc._n etc._n chap._n i._n the_o great_a importance_n of_o the_o matter_n here_o handle_v viz._n that_o the_o people_n ought_v to_o have_v their_o free_a consent_n in_o their_o own_o church-governement_n and_o the_o cause_n of_o publish_v this_o attestation_n to_o it_o whereas_o many_o thing_n at_o divers_a and_o sundry_a time_n heretofore_o have_v be_v write_v which_o prove_v a_o plain_a necessity_n by_o god_n word_n to_o reform_v the_o church_n &_o church-governement_n now_o in_o england_n very_o among_o they_o all_o there_o be_v almost_o no_o other_o point_n so_o evident_a so_o direct_v and_o full_a to_o this_o purpose_n that_o be_v 1._o chap._n 1._o none_o in_o a_o manner_n so_o absolute_o import_v the_o say_a necessity_n of_o reformation_n as_o this_o do_v which_o be_v utter_o want_v among_o we_o name_o that_o the_o church-governement_n ought_v tâ—â—â—e_v exercise_v always_o with_o the_o people_n free_a consent_n controversy_n one_o or_o two_o maâ—â—â—_n ground_n of_o our_o whole_a controversy_n it_o
be_v true_a another_o ground_n thereof_o there_o be_v likewise_o &_o that_o of_o no_o less_o importance_n in_o this_o matter_n which_o be_v that_o christ_n true_a visible_a and_o ministerial_a church_n under_o the_o gospel_n consist_v not_o of_o many_o ordinary_a congregation_n but_o only_o of_o one_o which_o i_o have_v at_o large_a prove_v to_o be_v a_o truth_n and_o have_v make_v it_o manifest_v in_o my_o declaration_n pag._n 10.11.12_o etc._n etc._n and_o in_o reas._n for_o reform_v pag._n 19.20_o &_o 65.66_o and_o again_o 8._o again_o chapt._n 8._o here_o after_o i_o do_v show_v it_o further_o yet_o the_o former_a point_n in_o some_o respect_n may_v be_v think_v rather_o the_o chief_a because_o this_o second_o be_v a_o dependent_a on_o the_o former_a &_o follow_v by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n from_o it_o as_o partly_o be_v show_v in_o the_o say_v declarat_fw-la pag._n 13.14_o and_o more_o full_o in_o the_o vii_o chapt._n of_o this_o present_a treatise_n ensue_a again_o that_o require_v the_o people_n free_a consent_n note_v christ_n visible_a church_n nature_n and_o essence_n intensiuè_fw-fr intensiuè_fw-la the_o church_n nature_n intensiuè_fw-la as_o the_o school_n do_v speak_v that_o be_v it_o show_v thâ—_n ground_n of_o the_o power_n and_o life_n thereof_o the_o other_o show_v the_o essence_n of_o it_o extensiuè_fw-la extensiuè_n extensiuè_n that_o be_v the_o largeness_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n &_o just_a extent_n or_o the_o due_a limit_n and_o bound_n thereof_o outward_o wherefore_o that_o require_v the_o people_n free_a consent_n be_v manifest_o a_o most_o proper_a and_o special_a argument_n in_o our_o cause_n and_o such_o as_o touch_v the_o quick_a in_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o say_a reformation_n most_o near_o d._n downame_n err_v great_o in_o his_o late_a defence_n make_v his_o first_o book_n thereof_o full_a long_a &_o tedious_a only_o to_o disprove_v lay_v elder_n as_o he_o call_v they_o think_v without_o all_o reason_n that_o if_o he_o speed_v well_o therein_o he_o have_v get_v the_o victory_n whereupon_o he_o most_o fond_o infer_v thus_o 62._o thus_o defenc._n 1._o pag._n 62._o who_o see_v not_o that_o the_o disproof_n of_o their_o presbytery_n be_v a_o direct_a proof_n for_o our_o bishop_n and_o in_o another_o place_n 2.2_o place_n defenc._n 2.2_o who_o see_v not_o that_o upon_o the_o overthrow_n of_o the_o presbytery_n the_o government_n by_o bishop_n be_v necessary_o infer_v who_o see_v not_o very_o neither_o he_o nor_o any_o man_n live_v see_v it_o he_o be_v tell_v sufficient_o by_o his_o refuter_fw-la 10._o refuter_fw-la ibid._n pa._n 10._o of_o this_o his_o vain_a and_o frivolous_a inference_n but_o he_o seem_v so_o in_o love_n with_o his_o own_o folly_n that_o he_o can_v endure_v no_o man_n to_o show_v he_o his_o error_n nay_o such_o a_o mind_n he_o bear_v that_o in_o his_o defence_n he_o go_v about_o with_o pretend_a logic_n to_o make_v this_o his_o idle_a conceit_n seem_v reason_n and_o thereupon_o he_o say_v his_o adversary_n must_v 1.6_o must_v defen_n 1.6_o confess_v himself_o ignorant_a in_o logic_n if_o he_o will_v deny_v this_o his_o inference_n and_o so_o 62._o so_o pag._n 62._o this_o passage_n concern_v lay_v elder_n he_o hope_v will_v be_v acknowledge_v not_o to_o be_v impertinent_a never_o a_o whit_n true_o impertinent_a the_o question_n of_o elder_n whole_o impertinent_a for_o this_o passage_n still_o be_v not_o only_o impertinent_a and_o idle_a but_o even_o a_o false_a defence_n of_o those_o who_o he_o pead_v for_o if_o he_o will_v yet_o hold_v his_o opinion_n still_o he_o have_v not_o logic_n at_o command_n neither_o can_v he_o by_o his_o sophistry_n among_o man_n of_o any_o understand_v make_v that_o to_o seem_v which_o be_v not_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v 61._o be_v pag._n 61._o presuppose_v on_o both_o side_n it_o be_v his_o folly_n to_o say_v so_o and_o in_o say_v his_o refuter_fw-la witness_v it_o he_o gross_o abuse_v he_o he_o do_v the_o contrary_a in_o the_o same_o place_n which_o he_o allege_v out_o of_o he_o for_o the_o doctor_n leave_v out_o his_o refuter_n word_n present_o follow_v those_o which_o he_o allege_v which_o late_a word_n be_v flat_a against_o he_o so_o just_o and_o true_o our_o doctor_n deal_v in_o his_o writing_n like_o to_o this_o be_v his_o great_a boast_n which_o he_o make_v here_o in_o his_o book_n and_o often_o afterward_o also_o viz._n that_o he_o have_v find_v out_o two_o sort_n of_o disciplinarian_o as_o he_o wisedometerm_v they_o one_o 2.147_o one_o defenc._n 1.60_o and_o 2.147_o elder_n and_o more_o learned_a the_o chief_a of_o who_o he_o say_v be_v calvin_n and_o beza_n another_o new_a shallow_a and_o ignorant_a sort_n of_o who_o he_o make_v 82.130_o make_v defenc._n 2.2_o 82.130_o master_n cartwright_n chief_a adjoin_v other_o of_o we_o since_o unto_o he_o but_o what_o difference_n â—ndeth_v he_o in_o these_o disciplinarian_o forsooth_o the_o elder_n he_o say_v hold_v presbytery_n in_o city_n to_o govern_v â—hole_a diocese_n and_o province_n and_o â—erein_o he_o avouch_v 2.2_o avouch_v defenc._n 2.2_o they_o join_v with_o â—e_a bishop_n in_o england_n against_o the_o new_a sort_n of_o â—isciplinarians_n the_o new_a sort_n 1.60_o sort_n defen_n 1.60_o bold_o and_o ignorant_o hold_v parishional_a presbytery_n naythis_n doctor_n slander_v either_o ignorant_o or_o malicious_o for_o we_o who_o he_o make_v of_o the_o new_a shallow_a â—nd_v ignorant_a sort_n we_o i_o say_v substance_n we_o agree_v with_o calvin_n &_o beza_n in_o substance_n differ_v not_o â—ne_a hair_n from_o calvin_n and_o beza_n touch_v the_o substance_n of_o this_o matter_n we_o as_o they_o &_o they_o as_o we_o do_v acknowledge_v both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o that_o â—s_n both_o the_o parishional_a and_o the_o diocesan_n presbytery_n yea_o the_o provincial_n and_o large_a too_o if_o occasion_n serve_v â—t_z be_v false_a which_o he_o impute_v to_o calvinâ—nd_n â—nd_z beza_n that_o they_o maintain_v the_o church-governement_n by_o diocesan_n &_o provincial_n presbytery_n absolute_o without_o any_o relation_n to_o the_o people_n consent_n in_o the_o ordinary_a congregation_n also_o that_o herein_o they_o join_v with_o the_o bishop_n in_o england_n or_o that_o they_o material_o differ_v from_o us._n all_o which_o god_n willing_a we_o shall_v show_v to_o be_v untrue_a and_o that_o most_o clear_o in_o the_o 3._o chapt._n &_o also_o in_o the_o 7._o &_o 8._o here_o follow_v wherefore_o these_o be_v all_o slanderous_a forgery_n of_o the_o doctor_n devise_v of_o purpose_n to_o make_v our_o innocence_n odious_a by_o all_o the_o shift_n be_v can_v &_o to_o cast_v some_o 1.53_o some_o defen_n 1.53_o colour_n of_o just_a cause_n or_o show_v of_o reason_n for_o his_o leave_v of_o our_o acquaintance_n profession_n wherefore_o d._n downame_n leave_v his_o first_o profession_n to_o who_o heretofore_o he_o join_v himself_o namely_o while_o there_o be_v some_o expectation_n of_o his_o majesty_n favour_n towards_o us._n and_o this_o be_v full_o enough_o for_o answer_v to_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o whole_a first_o book_n see_v to_o trouble_v our_o self_n much_o with_o impertinent_a stuff_n will_v be_v in_o we_o also_o great_a folly_n yea_o to_o speak_v the_o truth_n the_o prosecute_n of_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o defence_n beside_o be_v such_o likewise_o that_o be_v clean_o from_o the_o main_a purpose_n &_o touch_v not_o the_o chief_a question_n between_o us._n indeed_o he_o propound_v one_o part_n of_o the_o question_n well_o in_o the_o title_n of_o the_o second_o book_n of_o his_o defence_n but_o his_o prosecute_n of_o it_o both_o there_o and_o every_o where_o else_o even_o to_o the_o end_n be_v as_o if_o we_o deny_v bishop_n and_o their_o government_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n bishop_n we_o deny_v not_o church_n government_n by_o bishop_n which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o lie_v &_o malicious_a forgery_n against_o we_o by_o equivocate_a falsehood_n &_o slander_n to_o make_v we_o seem_v as_o if_o we_o be_v against_o both_o the_o express_a letter_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n equivocaton_n equivocaton_n and_o also_o of_o the_o most_o ancient_a ecclesiastical_a writer_n where_o we_o know_v any_o man_n may_v see_v bishop_n &_o their_o government_n to_o be_v commend_v as_o from_o god_n and_o as_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o apostle_n which_o be_v the_o very_a practice_n likewise_o of_o doct._n bilson_n against_o we_o in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o perpetual_a government_n of_o christ_n church_n who_o trace_n our_o doctor_n follow_v step_n by_o step_n but_o as_o i_o say_v both_o their_o great_a and_o large_a volume_n about_o this_o matter_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o two_o heap_n of_o equivocation_n or_o sentence_n whole_o impertinent_a &_o such_o as_o we_o admit_v with_o they_o or_o some_o conclusion_n wherein_o they_o plain_o contradict_v themselves_o elsewhere_o little_a cause_n therefore_o have_v
have_v to_o that_o purâ—ise_n handle_v in_o my_o 3._o and_o 9_o argument_n of_o the_o divine_a beginning_n and_o institution_n of_o christ_n visible_a and_o ministerial_a church_n do_v well_o show_v and_o testify_v to_o we_o so_o much_o chap._n vi_o our_o very_a adversary_n do_v acknowledge_v with_o we_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o doctrine_n sometime_o in_o plain_a term_n 6._o chap._n 6._o and_o sometime_o to_o the_o same_o full_a effect_n special_o when_o they_o deal_v against_o the_o papist_n the_o force_n and_o evidence_n of_o this_o truth_n viz._n touch_v the_o people_n right_a for_o their_o free_a consent_n in_o church_n government_n be_v such_o that_o also_o our_o very_a adversary_n sometime_o in_o plain_a term_n sometime_o to_o the_o same_o full_a effect_n do_v acknowledge_v it_o among_o many_o i_o will_v content_v myself_o with_o two_o for_o the_o present_a viz._n d._n bilson_n and_o d._n downame_n the_o first_o of_o these_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o apology_n of_o the_o seminary_n pristes_fw-fr and_o jesuit_n write_v thus_o 353.356_o thus_o d._n bila_n against_o the_o seminar_n part_n 2_o 353.356_o we_o have_v the_o word_n and_o warrant_v of_o the_o h._n ghost_n for_o that_o which_o we_o say_v etc._n etc._n viz._n that_o the_o people_n can_v and_o aught_o to_o disceme_v and_o try_v the_o doctrine_n and_o spirit_n of_o the_o teacher_n &c_n &c_n so_o to_o choose_v and_o refuse_v they_o as_o they_o by_o the_o word_n shall_v see_v good_a thus_o say_v he_o and_o what_o can_v be_v speak_v by_o any_o of_o our_o self_n more_o plain_o and_o more_o full_o to_o our_o purpose_n if_o the_o people_n can_v and_o aught_o to_o choose_v their_o teacher_n and_o to_o refuse_v who_o they_o find_v worthy_a to_o be_v refuse_v then_o why_o be_v they_o not_o allow_v so_o to_o do_v in_o england_n if_o the_o word_n and_o warrant_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v for_o it_o than_o who_o may_v impeach_v it_o who_o may_v resist_v it_o what_o be_v they_o that_o revile_v and_o persecute_v this_o way_n he_o add_v here_o in_o this_o place_n that_o the_o people_n 355._o people_n pag._n 355._o have_v skill_n and_o leave_v to_o discern_v both_o viz._n to_o discern_v the_o teacher_n &_o their_o doctrine_n where_o also_o he_o discourse_v much_o upon_o this_o right_n of_o the_o people_n as_o be_v christ_n ordinance_n and_o press_v it_o against_o the_o papist_n yea_o in_o another_o book_n where_o he_o plead_v to_o the_o contrary_a purpose_n against_o we_o yet_o he_o write_v thus_o 300._o perpet_n gov_fw-mi pag_n 300._o *_o the_o apostle_n leave_v election_n indifferent_o to_o the_o people_n and_o clergy_n of_o jerusalem_n the_o people_n have_v as_o much_o right_a to_o choose_v their_o pastor_n as_o the_o clergy_n that_o have_v more_o skill_n to_o judge_v 339._o judge_v pag_n 339._o well_o may_v the_o people_n interest_n stand_v upon_o the_o ground_n of_o reason_n &_o nature_n and_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o christian_a equity_n 359._o equity_n pag._n 359._o the_o late_a bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v not_o cease_v curse_v and_o fight_v till_o exclude_v both_o prince_n and_o people_n they_o reduce_v the_o election_n whole_o to_o the_o clergy_n but_o he_o tell_v they_o that_o by_o their_o leave_n apply_v hereunto_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n mat._n 19_o 8._o it_o be_v not_o so_o from_o the_o beginning_n again_o he_o say_v 330._o say_v pag._n 330._o i_o a_o knowledge_n each_o church_n and_o people_n stand_v frâ—e_v by_o god_n law_n to_o admit_v maintain_v and_o obey_v no_o man_n as_o their_o pastor_n without_o their_o like_n where_o in_o deed_n he_o add_v to_o the_o contrary_a unless_o by_o law_n custom_n or_o consent_v they_o restrain_v themselves_o but_o this_o he_o himself_o elsewhere_a answer_v roundly_o 221._o roundly_o pag._n 221._o what_o authority_n have_v other_o after_o the_o apostle_n death_n to_o change_v the_o apostolic_a government_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o from_o the_o beginning_n which_o before_o he_o answer_v be_v a_o full_a confutation_n also_o of_o this_o exception_n as_o also_o where_o he_o call_v man_n ordinance_n in_o church_n government_n 19_o government_n pag._n 19_o corruption_n of_o time_n invention_n of_o man_n and_o a_o transgress_a of_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n for_o the_o tradition_n of_o man_n and_o where_o he_o call_v such_o ordinance_n 111._o ordinance_n pag._n 111._o intrusion_n and_o presumption_n as_o for_o that_o he_o say_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o book_n 82._o book_n pag_n 82._o the_o multitude_n he_o mean_v the_o christian_a people_n neither_o can_v not_o can_v judge_v of_o the_o gift_n and_o ability_n of_o pastor_n no_o more_o then_o blind_a man_n of_o colour_n this_o show_v plain_o his_o variable_a mind_n &_o contradiction_n to_o himself_o as_o for_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v speak_v mere_o out_o of_o a_o humour_n and_o partiality_n against_o we_o and_o that_o his_o lordship_n in_o spiritual_a thing_n over_o christ_n people_n may_v be_v establish_v but_o before_o against_o the_o main_a adversary_n of_o the_o gospel_n the_o papist_n he_o teach_v the_o truth_n as_o the_o scripture_n there_o allege_v do_v show_v but_o here_o in_o this_o last_o place_n he_o turn_v about_o &_o join_v with_o they_o rather_o than_o he_o will_v seem_v to_o consent_v with_o us._n nevertheless_o his_o former_a most_o clear_a and_o sincere_a testimony_n on_o our_o behalf_n can_v not_o be_v blot_v out_o again_o in_o the_o same_o book_n speak_v of_o bishop_n in_o plain_a term_n thus_o he_o say_v 340._o say_v pag._n 340._o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o impose_v a_o pastor_n on_o any_o church_n against_o their_o will_n nor_o to_o force_v they_o to_o yield_v he_o obedience_n or_o maintenance_n against_o their_o like_n if_o this_o be_v ingenuous_o acknowledge_v and_o profess_v &_o practise_v likewise_o religious_o we_o shall_v desire_v no_o more_o for_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o matter_n as_o it_o have_v be_v often_o say_v our_o agreement_n together_o touchinge_v church-governement_n will_v soon_o appear_v but_o he_o when_o he_o list_v will_v tell_v we_o that_o timothy_n and_o tâ—â—s_n who_o he_o esteem_v bishop_n have_v power_n to_o make_v presbyter_n to_o church_n and_o the_o apostle_n also_o 88_o also_o pag._n 88_o without_o the_o people_n or_o their_o consent_n wherefore_o what_o to_o reckon_v of_o his_o say_n and_o speech_n we_o know_v not_o only_o his_o foresay_a agreement_n with_o we_o in_o word_n be_v manifest_a next_o to_o he_o we_o will_v consider_v of_o doctor_n downame_n he_o in_o a_o certain_a place_n though_o it_o seem_v full_a sore_n against_o his_o will_n yet_o through_o the_o force_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v compel_v acknowledge_v and_o yield_v unto_o we_o that_o 4.99_o that_o d_o down_n def._n 4.99_o the_o power_n of_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n by_o right_n be_v seat_v in_o the_o whole_a church_n or_o congregation_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n wherein_o both_o the_o succession_n of_o their_o own_o clergy_n fail_v and_o the_o help_n of_o other_o want_v the_o right_n be_v devolve_v to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o word_n i_o desire_v all_o man_n to_o observe_v how_o this_o doctor_n grant_v we_o the_o cause_n in_o full_a effect_n and_o agree_v whole_o to_o our_o purpose_n for_o that_o which_o here_o he_o say_v and_o which_o necessary_o follow_v from_o these_o word_n be_v all_o that_o weâ—_n desire_n wherefore_o i_o pray_v the_o christian_a reader_n to_o mark_v well_o these_o seven_o consequentes_fw-la which_o follow_v from_o these_o word_n of_o d._n downame_n and_o can_v be_v deny_v by_o any_o honest_a and_o true-hearted_a christian_a first_o in_o that_o he_o hold_v that_o the_o power_n of_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n by_o right_n be_v seat_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n it_o be_v certain_a therefore_o that_o he_o must_v hold_v that_o this_o right_a and_o power_n be_v seat_v in_o the_o whole_a particular_a congregation_n by_o christ_n and_o by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n for_o no_o person_n or_o person_n can_v at_o any_o time_n nor_o in_o any_o respect_n have_v such_o power_n by_o man_n ordinance_n it_o can_v not_o be_v either_o natural_o or_o civil_o give_v or_o receive_v wherefore_o in_o who_o soever_o that_o power_n be_v seat_v &_o at_o what_o time_n soever_o doubtless_o it_o be_v in_o they_o supernatural_o god_n by_o his_o special_a grace_n give_v it_o and_o christ_n by_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n seat_v it_o in_o they_o yea_o though_o it_o be_v in_o any_o case_n of_o necessity_n whatsoever_o for_o thus_o it_o be_v write_v â—7_n write_v job_n 3._o â—7_n a_o man_n can_v receive_v nothing_o except_o it_o be_v give_v he_o from_o heaven_n that_o be_v no_o dignity_n no_o authority_n no_o power_n in_o the_o church_n can_v be_v but_o from_o god_n and_o it_o be_v speak_v absolute_o touch_v all_o