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book_n apostle_n church_n true_a 1,620 5 5.0143 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A49123 Mr. Hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by Thomas Long ... ; to which are added, Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered. Long, Thomas, 1621-1707.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity against separation. 1678 (1678) Wing L2974; ESTC R10056 119,450 354

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brethren_n object_v many_o
which_o we_o translate_v priest_n sacrifice_n and_o altar_n and_o our_o translation_n be_v not_o intolerable_a if_o priest_n come_v from_o presbyter_n i_o need_v not_o prove_v that_o if_o it_o do_v not_o yet_o all_o minister_n be_v subordinate_a to_o christ_n in_o his_o priestly_a office_n and_o the_o word_n sacrifice_n be_v use_v of_o we_o and_o our_o offer_a worship_n 1_o pet._n 2._o 5._o hebr._n 13._o 15_o 16._o phil._n 4._o 18._o eph._n 5._o 2._o ro._n 12._o 1._o and_o hebr._n 13._o 10._o say_v we_o have_v a_o altar_n which_o word_n be_v frequent_o use_v in_o the_o revelation_n in_o relation_n to_o gospel-time_n we_o must_v not_o therefore_o be_v quarrelsome_a against_o the_o bare_a name_n unless_o they_o be_v abuse_v to_o some_o ill_a use_n the_o ancient_a father_n and_o church_n do_v ever_o use_v all_o these_o word_n so_o familiar_o without_o any_o question_n or_o scruple_n raise_v by_o the_o orthodox_n or_o heretic_n about_o they_o that_o we_o shall_v be_v wary_a how_o we_o condemn_v these_o word_n lest_o we_o give_v advantage_n to_o the_o papist_n to_o tell_v their_o follower_n that_o all_o antiquity_n be_v on_o their_o side_n the_o lord_n supper_n be_v by_o protestant_n true_o call_v a_o commemorative_n sacrifice_n of_o the_o communion_n table_n etc._n etc._n qu._n 123._o may_v the_o communion_n table_n be_v turn_v altarwise_a 882._o and_o rail_v in_o and_o be_v it_o lawful_a to_o come_v up_o to_o the_o rail_v to_o communicate_v answ_n 1._o god_n have_v not_o give_v a_o particular_a command_n or_o prohibition_n about_o these_o circumstance_n but_o only_o general_a rule_n for_o edification_n unity_n decency_n and_o order_n 2._o they_o that_o do_v it_o out_o of_o a_o design_n to_o draw_v man_n to_o popery_n or_o to_o encourage_v man_n in_o it_o do_v sin_n 3._o so_o do_v they_o that_o rail_v in_o the_o table_n to_o signify_v that_o lay-christians_a must_v not_o come_v to_o it_o but_o be_v keep_v at_o a_o distance_n 4._o but_o where_o there_o be_v no_o such_o end_n but_o only_o to_o imitate_v the_o ancient_n that_o do_v thus_o and_o to_o show_v reverence_n to_o the_o table_n on_o the_o account_n of_o the_o sacrament_n by_o keep_v away_o dog_n keep_v boy_n from_o sit_v on_o it_o and_o the_o profess_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n condemn_v transubstantiation_n the_o real_a corporal-presence_n etc._n etc._n in_o this_o case_n christian_n shall_v take_v these_o for_o such_o as_o they_o be_v indifferent_a thing_n and_o not_o censure_n or_o condemn_v each_o other_o for_o they_o 5._o and_o to_o communicate_v be_v not_o only_o lawful_a in_o this_o case_n where_o we_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n sin_v but_o even_o when_o we_o suspect_v a_o ill_a design_n in_o he_o which_o we_o can_v prove_v yea_o or_o when_o we_o can_v prove_v that_o his_o personal_a interpretation_n of_o the_o place_n name_n situation_n and_o rail_v be_v unsound_a for_o we_o assemble_v there_o to_o communicate_v in_o and_o according_a to_o the_o profess_a doctrine_n of_o christianity_n and_o the_o church_n and_o our_o own_o open_a profession_n and_o not_o after_o every_o private_a opinion_n and_o error_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o creed_n qu._n 139._o what_o be_v the_o use_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v it_o of_o the_o apostle_n frame_v or_o not_o 896._o answ_n it_o be_v use_n be_v to_o be_v a_o plain_a explication_n of_o the_o faith_n profess_v in_o the_o baptismal_a covenant_n and_o for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o the_o church_n that_o man_n indeed_o understand_v what_o they_o do_v in_o baptism_n and_o profess_v to_o believe_v 2._o it_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o whatever_o it_o be_v as_o to_o the_o order_n or_o composition_n of_o the_o word_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o the_o apostle_n do_v use_v a_o creed_n common_o in_o their_o day_n which_o be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o now_o call_v the_o apostle_n and_o the_o nicene_n in_o the_o main_a 4._o and_o it_o be_v easy_o probable_a that_o christ_n compose_v a_o creed_n when_o he_o make_v his_o covenant_n and_o institute_v baptism_n matth._n 28._o 19_o 5._o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v cause_v the_o baptizable_a to_o understand_v the_o three_o article_n of_o christ_n own_o creed_n and_o covenant_n and_o use_v many_o explicatory_a word_n to_o make_v they_o understand_v it_o 6._o it_o be_v more_o than_o probable_a that_o the_o matter_n open_v by_o they_o be_v still_o the_o same_o when_o the_o word_n be_v not_o the_o same_o 7._o and_o it_o be_v also_o more_o than_o probable_a that_o they_o do_v not_o needless_o vary_v the_o word_n lest_o it_o shall_v teach_v man_n to_o vary_v the_o matter_n and_o last_o no_o doubt_n but_o this_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v imitate_v by_o the_o church_n and_o that_o thus_o the_o essential_o of_o religion_n be_v by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o creed_n and_o baptism_n deliver_v by_o themselves_o as_o far_o as_o christianity_n go_v long_o before_o any_o book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v write_v and_o the_o follow_a church_n use_v the_o same_o creed_n may_v so_o far_o well_o call_v it_o the_o apostle_n creed_n of_o the_o apocrypha_fw-la qu._n 150._o be_v it_o lawful_a to_o read_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la or_o homily_n 901._o answ_n it_o be_v lawful_a so_o be_v it_o they_o be_v sound_a doctrine_n and_o fit_v to_o the_o people_n edification_n 2._o so_o be_v it_o they_o be_v not_o read_v scandalous_o without_o sufficient_a difference_v they_o from_o god_n book_n 3._o so_o they_o be_v not_o read_v to_o exclude_v or_o hinder_v the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n or_o other_o necessary_a church_n duty_n 4._o so_o they_o be_v not_o read_v to_o keep_v up_o a_o ignorant_a lazy_a ministry_n that_o can_v or_o will_v do_v no_o better_o 5._o and_o especial_o if_o authority_n command_v it_o and_o the_o church_n agreement_n require_v it_o of_o the_o oath_n of_o canonical_a obedience_n qu._n 153._o may_v we_o lawful_o swear_v obedience_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a and_o honest_a either_o to_o usurper_n or_o to_o our_o lawful_a pastor_n 902._o answ_n if_o the_o king_n shall_v command_v we_o it_o be_v lawful_a so_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n who_o think_v the_o english_a prelacy_n a_o unlawful_a office_n yet_o maintain_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o take_v the_o oath_n of_o canonical_a obedience_n because_o they_o think_v it_o be_v impose_v by_o the_o king_n and_o law_n and_o that_o we_o swear_v to_o they_o not_o as_o officer_n claim_v a_o divine_a right_n in_o the_o spiritual_a government_n but_o as_o ordinary_n or_o officer_n make_v by_o the_o king_n according_a to_o the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n of_o the_o holiness_n of_o church_n qu._n 170._o be_v temple_n font_n utensil_n church-land_n much_o more_o minister_n holy_a and_o what_o reverence_n be_v due_a to_o they_o as_o holy_a 915._o answ_n temple_n utensil_n land_n etc._n etc._n devote_a and_o lawful_o separate_v by_o man_n for_o holy_a use_n be_v holy_a as_o just_o relate_v to_o god_n by_o that_o lawful_a separation_n minister_n be_v more_o holy_a than_o temple_n land_n or_o utensil_n as_o be_v nearly_a relate_v to_o holy_a thing_n and_o thing_n separate_v by_o god_n be_v more_o holy_a than_o those_o just_o separate_v by_o man_n and_o so_o of_o day_n every_o thing_n shall_v be_v reverence_v according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o its_o holiness_n and_o this_o express_v by_o such_o sign_n gesture_n action_n as_o be_v fit_a to_o honour_n god_n to_o who_o they_o be_v relate_v and_o so_o to_o be_v uncover_v in_o church_n and_o use_v reverend_a carriage_n and_o gesture_n there_o do_v tend_v to_o preserve_v due_a reverence_n to_o god_n and_o to_o his_o worship_n 1_o cor._n 16._o 20._o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n in_o circumstantial_o those_o mode_n or_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n 361._o which_o be_v necessary_a in_o genere_fw-la but_o leave_v undetermined_a by_o god_n in_o specie_fw-la be_v leave_v by_o god_n to_o humane_a prudential_a determination_n else_o a_o impossibility_n shall_v be_v necessary_a it_o be_v leave_v to_o humane_a determination_n what_o place_v the_o public_a assembly_n shall_v be_v hold_v in_o 401._o and_o to_o determine_v of_o the_o time_n except_o where_o god_n have_v determine_v already_o and_o what_o utensil_n to_o employ_v about_o the_o public_a worship_n some_o decent_a habit_n be_v necessary_a 409._o either_o the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o minister_n or_o associate_v pastor_n must_v determine_v what_o i_o think_v neither_o magistrate_n nor_o synod_n shall_v do_v more_o than_o hinder_v indecency_n if_o they_o do_v and_o tie_v all_o to_o one_o habit_n and_o suppose_v it_o be_v a_o indecent_a habit_n yet_o this_o be_v but_o a_o imprudent_a use_n of_o power_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n within_o the_o magistrate_n reach_v he_o do_v not_o a_o alien_n work_n but_o his_o
mr._n hildersham_n mr._n r._n rogers_n and_o such_o old_a nonconformist_n be_v in_o so_o good_a esteem_n among_o good_a people_n where_o they_o will_v read_v they_o urge_v the_o people_n not_o only_o against_o separation_n but_o to_o come_v to_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o the_o public_a worship_n and_o prefer_v it_o before_o their_o private_a duty_n when_o i_o think_v what_o holy_a learned_a man_n the_o old_a conformist_n be_v 57_o my_o heart_n rise_v against_o the_o thought_n of_o separate_n from_o they_o if_o i_o have_v come_v to_o their_o church_n when_o they_o use_v the_o common_a prayer_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n can_v i_o have_v depart_v and_o say_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o christian_a here_o to_o communicate_v with_o you_o what!_o to_o such_o man_n as_o mr._n bolton_n whateley_n fenner_n dent_n crook_n dike_n stock_n smith_n dr._n preston_n sibbs_n stoughton_n taylor_n and_o abundance_n other_o such_o yea_o such_o as_o bishop_n jewel_n grindal_n hall_n potter_n davenant_n carleton_n etc._n etc._n dr._n field_n smith_n jo._n white_a willet_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o the_o martyr_n too_o as_o cranmer_n ridley_n hooper_n himself_o farrar_n bradford_n fillpot_n sanders_n etc._n etc._n can_v i_o separate_v from_o all_o these_o on_o the_o reason_n now_o in_o question_n yea_o calvin_n himself_o and_o the_o church_n of_o his_o way_n be_v all_o separate_v from_o by_o the_o separatist_n of_o their_o time_n and_o though_o ministerial_a conformity_n be_v now_o much_o alter_v 13._o as_o to_o engagement_n many_o of_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n that_o be_v yet_o live_v do_v conform_v again_o nor_o will_v i_o shun_v communion_n with_o the_o reverend_a member_n of_o that_o assembly_n twiss_n gataker_n whitaker_n and_o the_o rest_n if_o again_o they_o use_v the_o liturgy_n among_o we_o and_o if_o the_o old_a conformist_n such_o as_o bolton_n etc._n etc._n be_v alive_a and_o use_v now_o the_o same_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n as_o they_o do_v then_o which_o be_v worse_o than_o now_o i_o can_v not_o think_v their_o communion_n in_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n unlawful_a nor_o censure_v that_o man_n as_o injurious_a to_o the_o church_n who_o shall_v write_v to_o persuade_v other_o not_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o read_v over_o some_o of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n book_n against_o separation_n 89._o as_o mr._n jacob_n the_o independent_a against_o johnson_n and_o mr._n bradshaw_n and_o mr._n gataker_n defence_n against_o cann_n mr._n gifford_n darrell_n paget_n etc._n etc._n and_o full_a of_o all_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o our_o trouble_n mr._n john_n ball_n in_o three_o book_n in_o these_o you_o will_v find_v the_o same_o objection_n answer_v or_o more_o and_o great_a and_o i_o profess_v my_o judgement_n that_o our_o ordinary_a boaster_n that_o think_v they_o know_v more_o in_o this_o controversy_n than_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n do_v as_o far_o as_o i_o be_o able_a to_o discern_v be_v as_o far_o below_o they_o almost_o as_o they_o be_v below_o either_o chamier_n sadeel_v whitaker_n or_o such_o other_o in_o deal_v with_o a_o papist_n objection_n answer_v but_o what_o if_o there_o be_v gross_a and_o scandalous_a sinner_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n 747._o answ_n if_o you_o be_v want_v in_o your_o duty_n to_o reform_v it_o it_o be_v your_o sin_n but_o if_o bare_a presence_n make_v their_o sin_n to_o be_v we_o it_o will_v also_o make_v all_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o assembly_n we_o but_o what_o if_o they_o be_v sin_n commit_v in_o the_o open_a assembly_n even_o by_o the_o minister_n himself_o in_o his_o pray_n preach_v and_o other_o administration_n answ_n 1._o a_o minister_n personal_a fault_n may_v damn_v himself_o and_o must_v be_v matter_n of_o lamentation_n to_o the_o church_n who_o ought_v to_o do_v their_o best_a to_o reform_v they_o or_o get_v better_o by_o any_o lawful_a mean_n but_o in_o case_n they_o can_v his_o sin_n be_v none_o of_o they_o nor_o do_v it_o make_v his_o administration_n null_n or_o ineffectual_a nor_o will_v it_o allow_v you_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o worship_n which_o he_o administer_v you_o may_v not_o separate_v from_o he_o unless_o you_o can_v prove_v he_o or_o his_o ministry_n utter_o intolerable_a by_o such_o fault_n as_o these_o 1._o a_o utter_a insufficiency_n in_o knowledge_n or_o utterance_n for_o the_o necessary_a part_n of_o the_o ministerial_a work_n as_o if_o he_o be_v not_o able_a to_o teach_v the_o necessary_a point_n of_o christian_a religion_n nor_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o other_o part_n of_o public_a worship_n 2._o if_o he_o set_v himself_o to_o oppose_v the_o end_n of_o his_o ministry_n and_o preach_v down_o godliness_n or_o any_o part_n of_o it_o that_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o be_v a_o preacher_n of_o heresy_n preach_v up_o any_o damn_v error_n or_o preach_v down_o any_o necessary_a save_v truth_n 3._o if_o he_o so_o deprave_v the_o public_a worship_n as_o to_o destroy_v the_o substance_n of_o it_o as_o in_o put_v up_o blasphemy_n for_o prayer_n or_o praise_n or_o commit_v idolatry_n or_o set_v up_o new_a sacrament_n or_o impose_v any_o actual_a sin_n on_o the_o people_n but_o there_o be_v other_o ministerial_a fault_n 606._o which_o warrant_v not_o our_o separation_n as_o 1._o some_o tolerable_a error_n of_o judgement_n or_o envy_n and_o pettish_a opposition_n to_o other_o phil._n 1._o 15._o 2._o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o join_v with_o a_o minister_n that_o have_v many_o defect_n in_o his_o ministration_n or_o manner_n of_o worship_n as_o if_o he_o preach_v with_o some_o ignorance_n disorder_n unfit_a expression_n or_o gesture_n and_o the_o like_a in_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o join_v with_o a_o minister_n that_o have_v some_o material_a error_n or_o untruth_n in_o preach_v or_o pray_v so_o be_v it_o we_o be_v not_o call_v to_o approve_v it_o and_o so_o it_o be_v not_o pernicious_a and_o destructive_a to_o the_o end_n of_o his_o ministry_n if_o we_o run_v away_o from_o all_o that_o vent_v any_o untruth_n or_o mistake_n in_o public_a or_o private_a worship_n we_o shall_v scarce_o know_v what_o church_n or_o person_n we_o may_v hold_v communion_n with_o for_o 1._o a_o small_a sin_n may_v no_o more_o be_v do_v or_o own_v than_o a_o great_a 2._o and_o then_o another_o man_n weakness_n may_v disoblige_v i_o and_o discharge_v i_o from_o my_o duty_n of_o subscription_n with_o assent_n and_o consent_n particular_o concern_v infant_n baptize_v q._n 152._o be_v it_o lawful_a to_o subscribe_v or_o profess_v full_a assent_n and_o consent_n to_o any_o religious_a book_n 902._o beside_o the_o bible_n see_v all_o be_v fallible_a 3._o answ_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o profess_v or_o subscribe_v our_o assent_n and_o consent_n to_o any_o humane_a writing_n which_o we_o judge_v to_o be_v true_a and_o good_a according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o its_o truth_n and_o goodness_n as_o if_o church-confession_n that_o be_v sound_a be_v offer_v we_o for_o our_o consent_n we_o may_v say_v or_o subscribe_v i_o hold_v all_o the_o doctrine_n in_o this_o book_n to_o be_v true_a and_o good_a q._n 35._o be_v it_o certain_a by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 807._o that_o all_o infant_n baptize_v and_o die_v before_o actual_a sin_n be_v undoubted_o save_v answ_n i_o think_v that_o all_o the_o child_n of_o true_a christian_n do_v by_o baptism_n receive_v a_o public_a investiture_n 810._o by_o god_n appointment_n into_o a_o state_n of_o remission_n adoption_n and_o right_a to_o salvation_n at_o present_a send_v though_o i_o dare_v not_o say_v i_o be_o undoubted_o certain_a of_o it_o but_o i_o say_v as_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n art_n 1._o that_o believe_v parent_n have_v no_o cause_n to_o doubt_v of_o the_o salvation_n of_o their_o child_n that_o die_v in_o infancy_n before_o they_o commit_v actual_a sin_n that_o be_v not_o to_o trouble_v themselves_o with_o fear_n about_o it_o for_o if_o such_o infant_n be_v admit_v to_o outward_a privilege_n only_o ibid._n then_o which_o be_v my_o 2d_o reason_n we_o have_v no_o promise_n or_o certainty_n or_o ground_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o pardon_n and_o salvation_n of_o any_o individual_a infant_n in_o the_o world_n and_o if_o there_o be_v no_o promise_n there_o be_v no_o faith_n of_o it_o nor_o no_o baptism_n to_o seal_v it_o and_o so_o we_o make_v antipaedobaptism_n unavoidable_a whereas_o some_o misinterpret_v the_o word_n of_o the_o old_a rubric_n of_o confirmation_n in_o the_o english_a liturgy_n 812._o as_o if_o it_o speak_v of_o all_o that_o be_v baptize_v whether_o they_o have_v right_a or_o not_o the_o word_n themselves_o may_v serve_v to_o rectify_v that_o mistake_n and_o that_o no_o man_n shall_v think_v any_o detriment_n shall_v come_v to_o child_n by_o defer_v of_o their_o confirmation_n he_o shall_v know_v for_o truth_n that_o it_o be_v